Can God save the EU Constitution?
Cranmer reported a few weeks ago about the Pope's lecture to the great and the good of the EPP, encouraging the resurrection of the 'Constitution for Europe'. It seems that Chancellor Merkel is now hoping the Hand of God will be its salvation. This is the first time that Germany has spoken in favour of an overt reference to Christianity in the Constitution, and sets it on a collision course with the fiercely secular voice of France.Her speech echoed the demands of Pope John Paul II, which affirmed the Christian heritage of the continent. 'Europe would lose something if it were to push its historical reference to the side,' she said. Broadening from Ratzinger's assertion of a 'Christian Club' - a new Christendom which excludes Turkey - the German Chancellor wants to use God to reach out: 'We live in a world in which we want to understand and communicate with other religions and cultures'. This includes knowing your own roots and being aware of them which is why God and the Christian belief should be included into the EU constitution, she indicated.
Curiously, Pope Benedict XVI was in Auschwitz yesterday, and he said that the elimination of God was its greatest evil. The choice was 'God or the abyss'. Is the European Union about to choose God?
posted byArchbishop Cranmer at 9:35 am Permalink
26 Comments:
I seriously hope that the EU doesn't get God on their side. Its bad enough fighting BBC Bias, but The Almighty? That would be far more problematic.
It depends if it is The Almighty, or someone pretending to be The Alimighty.
I don't hear God demanding a credit in this document; just men on His behalf. Unless they profess infallibility, they may be wrong...
...O wait, there is one who claims infallibility...
If you read some of the books by Cardinal Ratzinger and Pope John Paul II you can see what they mean. It is simply that the balance between the Morality based upon whatever Man can do is morally acceptable; to the idea that God imposes a moral constraint to do not what is possible but what is acceptable.
Ratzinger has a superb little book "Values in a Changing World" and before launching off like Pavlov's dog it would be wise to read the book.
The basis of Western Society is the Judaeo-Christian tradition and the regimes most ardently seeking to destroy that fact gave us Leninism, Stalinism, and Hitlerism with the complete de-humanising of society and the creation of societies in the form of giant labour camps.
Europe has a terrible history when one considers the 20th Century and the Post-Darwin/Post-Marx Era in the pursuit of the possible through the power of the Hegelian State.
I do not want a European Constitution at all. I do not want a European Union. I do however not want to live under the regime of the Secular Humanists nor the Amoral Apparatchiki.
Rick. Isn't secular humanism better than government by a coercive religion? Isn't secular 'freedom' better than rule 'under God'?
I find Coercive Secular Humanism most oppressive and wish to be liberated from it forthwith.
I am sick and tired of the secular humanism and its nauseating pieties which are imposed by the forces of blind conformity to ideological nostrums alien to the public at large.
Europe, like Britain itself has been hi-jacked by an unrepresentative clique which seeks to ram its own half-baked doctrines down everyone's throat. How they took the majority hostage is unfathomable
As much as I agree with this, I still think it's a lesser evil than coercive religious government.
At least in secularism no-one is claiming to have God on their side.
It must be understood that when the Vatican talks of the need to mention 'Christianity' in the Constitution, it means 'Catholicism'. In its creed, the two are synonymous. Therefore an EU Constitution with a credit for 'God' is a constitution on Roman Catholic terms.
I agree with Rick that the Judaeo-Christian tradition is at the core of our values, and without a knowledge of it European culture, history, society etc cannot hope to be understood. Whether it is suitable for this to be recognised and acted upon by supra-national governmental organisations is another issue, and I would think, as with so many things EU, that it is best dealt with at a national or lower level.
Why should the 'christian' tradition be superior to the Islamic one? Do you not know that Muslims have contributed to the traditions of Europe, especially when we were dominant in Spain and other countries, and are still dominant in Turkey, where a pope once had his headquarters.
There should be reference to God in the constitution, because this God is Allah, peace be upon him, but 'christianity' is no more worthy of a mention than Islam, and if christianity is mentioned then so must Islam. Otherwise it says that Europe is for christians only, when the Muslims are the only group that is actually increasing in number, and within a century will be the majority.
I think you will find that we are all well aware of the fact that your co-religionists invaded and slaughtered their way across Spain and the Balkans. However, you did leave some nice buildings behind.
No religion should be mentionned in the constitution. Europe needs to shed its 'Christianity club' image and allow Tukey to being its application for membership provided they secure their eastern boaders, serperate the army from the executive, reform the judicial system and meet any other requirements. In the ECHR Article 9 that:
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
If it is made a 'Christian club' then this will only increase the levels of distrust of european nations around the world.
With regards to the pope, europe is the the continent where the number of Catholics is rapidy decreasing as people turn away form the church or turn to other religions.
Political Teenager, it is time to grow up. If no religion is mentioned in the constitution, that means secularism has won. As Rick says, that becomes a de facto religion, the religion of man, with its own oppressive agenda.
Its not about winning or losing, but about ensuring that there is no discrimination or prejudices formed against any religion within the current EU.
It wont be a secular constitution because it will refer to people rights to practice and follow which even religion that they choose.
As you have (presumably) grown up how about a better attempt at a put down?
Political teenager, you obviously don't understand what secular means. Constitutions are founded either upon notions of God, or they are humanist in inspiration (eg France). In Islam, there would be no separation of the state from the laws of Allah, peace be upon him. While the secular French constitution permits freedom of worship, you only have to observe the recent invoking of laws to deprice Muslim girls of their hijabs to understand that secularism is not religiously 'neutral', it has its own atheistic agenda. Secularism ultimately opposes those who believe in God.
I didn't intend to put you down. If I had done so, you would have had no come-back.
I tried to ignore your snipe, Croydonian, because you also are ignorant. If Muslims 'invaded and slaughtered their way across Spain and the Balkans', what exactly did the christians do in their Crusades? How many innocent Muslims wre raped, murdered, tortured? And thank you for agreeing that Islamic architecture is superior. We have contributed much great art and science to the world.
Mr Al-Amin,
Please be nice to my guests. Look up 'humility' in a good (non-Arabic) dictionary.
Mr Political Teenager,
How long should Turkey have to wait before it is admitted? If it is (or feels) perpetually frustrated, will she not look to the land of Mr Al-Amin for her allies?
If we want to compare body counts, I think you will find that the butcher's bill for the invasions of the Balkans and Spain far outweigh anything done during the Crusades and that is before we even consider the Armenian genocides.
While the Alhambra is quite attractive, it isn't in the same league as the finest Christian ecclesiastical architecture, so I admit no superiority - as you might have noted if you had actually read my post.
As to the achievements of Islamic artists, care to name any great portrait painters?
Cranmer, I agree. The EU a brilliant position whereby they can accept Turkey into the EU, showing that they do not seek to alienate Muslim countries, and that being a christian country is not a requirement for joining the EU. If we throw away this chance then we will be responsible when world affairs begin to get out of control.
With regards to how long it should wait before being admitted, i feel they should be allowed to start their application process now with a view to offer complete membership in the next 5 to 10 years as long as certain conditions are met.
Cranmer, I am always polite and patient with other contributors, but it seems that Croydonian is constantly unpleasant and accusing me or my religion of murder and genocide, or the Noble and Holy Qur'an of imperfections and errors. If this abuse continues, I shall go, I do not have to be here, I have very important things to do elsewhere, and others will be happy to hrear my contributions, so, I shall leave, and I am not joiking.
No, Turkey will not be admitted to the EU because Chirac promised les grenouilles a referendum. And he went further, the referendum promise is now enshrined in the French constitution. Care to guess which way that'll go?
And how do we afford to subsidise all the Turkish farmers? How do we control 'free movement of people' since thousands of Turks will leave Turkey for the more prosperous EU areas?
Turkish entry to the EU would be a nightmare of Elm Street proportions! It's good in theory, but can you see solutions to any of these objections? In particular, the fact that the French people will have the ultimate say.
Why should the 'Christian' tradition be superior to the Islamic one?
Simply because Jesus was a Jew and the Jews were chosen by God to have the Original Covenant.
Johnny-come-latelies in the Arabian peninsula can rewrite history to their hearts' content but we are not interested in parvenus.
Olly, Turkey was kept on an even keel by The Army. That was how Ataturk set up the Constitution with the Army as guardians of the Republic.
The EU does not permit The Army to have a political role and so lets the genie out of the bottle and destabilises Turkey's Constitution.
It is crass stupidity on the part of the Eu top force fit every culture into its own post-modernist credo.
Rick, the army is not still the mechanism that keeps stability. Turkey has evolved politically. The army can't have a role politically, but they wouldn't need to. Turkey now has a stable, westward-looking government.
The army can't have a role politically, but they wouldn't need to. Turkey now has a stable, westward-looking government.
Oh yes........I am very convinced........
Mr. Al-Amin, don't forsake this esteemed blog- Due to your blogging silence of recent days, I rather feared that you had been abducted by the CIA or shot by the Metroplitan Police. I for one appreciate the vigourous cut of your argument while agreeing with none of it. As one who has the pleasure of living in Turkey, I would dispute the notion that the current AKP government is westward-looking. It isn't. It's Islamist roots dictate that it can't be.It has merely acquiesed to the popular will that Turkey has earned a right to enter 'Europe'. The government misuses the need to comply with EU negotiating demands as a means to subvert secularism and democracy for its own nefarious purposes. In any case the bulk of legislation passed to meet EU demands has yet to be implemented. Paper reforms- nothing more. The government has conspicuously failed to deliver the slightest economic or political stability. The New Turkish Lira has recently undergone a massive loss of value against all major currencies, inflation is on the increase, the stock market has crashed within the last 4 weeks and unemployment remains alarmingly high. As for poitical instability, the re-ignition of violence in the Kurdish South-East has happened on this government's watch. The army, and this is often difficult for people outside the country to comprehend, is the country's most genuinely pro-western institution and the only one capable of countering the Islamist threat from within. Rick is absolutely right on the absurdity of EU demands reducing the military's role in society. Olly, people in Turkey are fully aware of the possibility of a French/Austrian/Cypriot veto. They know full well that Turkey has a fairly marginal chance of succeeding in EU entry. I and most Turks expect to be offered some form of privileged partnership agreement in the future. What people desire most of all are western-living standards and political/economic stability rather than being dictated to by the Politburo in Brussels. Indeed, one of the striking, and heart-warming, developments in Turkish society right now is the upsurge in Euroscepticism...
I have not left this blog even though there are some who want me to go away to Pakistan 'where I belong' but I am not going because I am British and live here and have rights. I am pleased that Turkey is retaining and honouring its Islamic roots, it is the last Caliphate and the one we look to for finding its roots again and honouring the Shari'a and being a light for the ways of Allah, peace be upon him. All of the corruption and pornography and Western ways will diminish as Turkey becomes a true Islamic republic again and honours the teachings of the Holy Qur'an.
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