Thursday, July 20, 2006

The anti-Semitism of The Guardian

The Guardian has consistently conveyed a negative portrayal of the Jewish state of Israel for over 30 years; in fact, it has rarely missed an opportunity to vent its bile for the only democracy in the region. This cartoon by Martin Rowson was published by them this week. It is a manifestly racist slur, insulting to Jews worldwide, and constitutes a blatant denigration of the Jewish faith by abusing their sacred icon, the Star of David. It makes no mention of Iran or Syria. It makes no mention of the 1200 missiles that had been launched into northern Israel before these hostilities began, or of the traumas endured by Israel each day through the terrorist incursions of Hamas or Hezbollah.

The victim in this cartoon is a Lebanese child. Tragically, very tragically, there will be many. But the gross misrepresentation of Hezbollah as a mere ‘wasp sting’ is an insult to all those Jewish children who have been hurt, killed or maimed by a ceaseless campaign of hatred by terrorists and their extremist supporters. These are not scatty, disorganised insects, but an organised, well-armed terror force which has plagued Israel for years.

Cranmer considers this cartoon to be a further ‘faith crime’. Whatever the rights or wrongs in the current Middle East crisis - there is no excuse for the British press to resort to material which may incite hatred, and this is clearly designed to do just that. Such a cartoon simply feeds the prejudice that many Muslims already feel towards the Jews and Israel, and it clearly belongs to the era of Nazi propaganda.

Cranmer asks visitors to this site to consider complaining to:

The Guardian at letters@guardian.co.uk
The Commission for Racial Equality (UK) (Click at Google)
The Metropolitan Police, Diversity Division, (London, UK)

80 Comments:

Blogger tapestry said...

The Guardian is a great paper but it is invariably on the wrong side of every debate throughout its history.

There's no profit in being right of course. In fact it's boring to read common sense. Total idiocy presented through intellectual argument has an endless fascination. I mean - how come all those educated minds can be so dumb? It's a timeless theme - why those who command words cannot see simple truths about life. It's an advertisement for avoiding too much education, which clearly rots the brain. If you doubt the truth of that, read the Guardian.

20 July 2006 at 23:41  
Anonymous Andy D said...

Sickening stuff. Well done for highlighting this - shame on the bigots of the Guardian.

21 July 2006 at 03:03  
Anonymous Rick said...

The Guardian is a funny newspaper. Today it has two articles on Poles coming to Britain - yet in 1946-47 when 250.000 Poles who had fought for Britain and their families were allowed to stay here, The Guardian and The New Statesman started a campaign of vilification against them accusing them of being Fascists and Enemies of the People's Republic being created by the enlightened liberators of the Communist Party.

There are so many at the Guardian who flirted or inherited membership cards in The Party that they ingested the CPSU line against Israel throughout the 1960s and cannot let it go. Many Guardian contributors probably had The Daily Worker or Morning Star as their birdcage liner before they could leave the JCR for Farringdon Road

21 July 2006 at 07:20  
Blogger Croydonian said...

As I'm fond of saying in such situations, 'That's funny - you don't look anti-Semitic'.

21 July 2006 at 10:55  
Blogger Mercian Crusader said...

Anti-semtic rhetoric is on the rise and seems to be everywhere you look. The BBC is effectively Hezbollah's mouthpiece at the moment. If you want a reasonably balanced view on what's happening Sky news seems to be doing okay. It doesn't help with newspapers, politicians and others blaming Israel for all of the ills in that part of the world.

What is happening isn't nice and will have far reaching repurcussions. However Israel is the only country to stand up for itself to Islamic extremists. It does not do appeasement which so many western nations bend over backwards to do. Western nations ought to take a leaf from their book and say no more often.

Not so long ago Iran said it would wipe Israel off the face of the map. Hamas refuses to have anything to do with Israel and would like to destroy it. The Red Cross organisation has only just let Israel join after much appeasing to the Islamic members and not allowing them to use the star of David.

We don't hear about these facts when the fingers of blame are out do we? Israel automatically becomes the default cause of all trouble in the middle east.

What would happen if that glove had crescent moons on it and it was an Irsaeli child being hit? Protests worldwide I would imagine.

Same on you Guardian and I hope you get investigated

21 July 2006 at 13:37  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

Cranmer, can you not adapt the cartoon as Mercian Crusader suggests? If it was possible with the Gay Police ad, it can't be much more difficult for a cartoon?!

21 July 2006 at 15:22  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Mercian you are an ass!
How would you feel if Nazirael
had just blown up your family.
Dont forget Israel started this, and lets not forget thatjust unde 60 years ago it was brits that these jews were murdering.

21 July 2006 at 15:47  
Anonymous Rick said...

Dont forget Israel started this, and lets not forget thatjust unde 60 years ago it was brits that these jews were murdering.

"These Jews" ia a very off comment.......they would be very old now methinks unless you want collective guilt. I thought we had rather grown out of guilt by association !

21 July 2006 at 16:24  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Rick
they seem to have passed the family trade on to later generations.
Saddam Hussein gasses some Kurds, several years later he is a monster and we invade , well thats ok.
Isael destroys the lebanon for the lives of 3 soldiers well all is fine and dandy,
I am afraid you have been brainwashed by the holocaust industry

21 July 2006 at 17:00  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

We are not brainwashed by the holocaust industry. It is who who's blinded by Islamist terrorist propaganda.

21 July 2006 at 19:15  
Anonymous willow said...

Hezbollah wants Israel to release hundreds of Lebanese prisoners, who are being held without trial, in exchange for the soldiers it captured.

Israel claim they are fighting against Hezbollah. If Israel is fighting Hezbollah, then why is it attacking airports, roads, and other civilian targets???!!! Israeli forces have also targeted ambulances and medical convoys..... I know they claim they are doing this so that Hezbollah cannot receive aid through Syria and Iran, but that is a very poor justification of their actions.

It appears that the Israeli attack is no longer against Hezbollah; it is an attack against Lebanon, (as stated by Lebanese premier Fuad Saniora)

Mercian said -
"It doesn't help with newspapers, politicians and others blaming Israel for all of the ills in that part of the world."

Are all politicians really blaming Israel??? Tony Blair is publicly highly supportive of Israel and has declined to call for an immediate ceasefire. Is Blair not a politician? Is Bush not a politician? Two of the most powerful politicians SUPPORT Israel, which is the reason why the UN's hopes for a ceasefire were veteod, and thus ineffective.

21 July 2006 at 19:34  
Blogger Croydonian said...

Perhaps people will find this Lebanese perspective on the implications of any Hizbollah victory interesting.

21 July 2006 at 19:44  
Anonymous Truthteller said...

Obviously some dyed in the wool Guardian readers posting on this comments thread judging by the bare faced anti semitism.So all you Jew haters answer me this; If it is all the Jews fault for wanting one single small country in the entire world to be a Jewish state then how do you account for all of the other conflicts around the world which are also violent and always involve Muslims versus some other religious group? You are racist hypocites perverted by dhimmiism.

21 July 2006 at 19:50  
Anonymous DavidG said...

who are being held without trial

We do talk some rot, don't we. Israel is probably the only sovereign state in the region that gives its criminals a fair trial. There is a prosecution and defence. Some are found guilty, some released. The fact that 'children' are held is because they are frequently used as suicide bombs. Willingly. The evidence is very strong. They are found guilty and imprisoned. Simple. And Israel is targeting the areas where Hezbollah are known to hang out. If thats in civilian areas, more fool the Lebanese for harbouring them.

21 July 2006 at 19:52  
Blogger Alistair McConnachie said...

You are being ironic, right?

Please tell me that your upset over a cartoon is meant to be ironic.

I mean, Israel physically endangers every nationality that resides in the Lebanon with its reckless bombing - and that includes British citizens, if you hadn't noticed - and you rush to its defence?

That is rather unBritish and unpatriotic, don't you think, and somewhat pathetic.

Alistair
www.sovereignty.org.uk

21 July 2006 at 20:07  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Alistair McConachie,

Thank you for your particularly unintelligent and ill-considered comment. You clearly have no comprehension of the power of symbolism, especially when it is an abuse of religious iconography, and even less understanding of the appalling conditions endured by families in Northern Israel for decades.

For someone who purports to send a 'positive message of sovereignty and self-determination', you must mean for yourself but not for Israel. Israel has spent half a century painfully learning about self-determination in a hostile context; you clearly know nothing.

Go and play somewhere else. Go on, run along.

21 July 2006 at 20:49  
Blogger Thomas Fuller said...

My Lord Archbishop,

Thank you for highlighting this abominable piece of propaganda. Such images do nothing to help. Perhaps the editor of the Guardian is angling for a job on the Daily Sport.

The situation is so complicated and of such long standing (i.e. nearly 2000 years, rather than since 1949 as you suggest) that no one is in a position to issue generalizations. The BBC's output continues to be anti-Israel, as would be expected of the Guardian of the airwaves; that Sky is more balanced is perhaps related to the ethnicity of its proprietor.

Some of the commentators above should get their news from several sources. That way, editorial bias tends to be more easily detected.

Israel has been sorely provoked, but then so have the Palestinians. I just wish people wouldn't be so beastly to each other -- whether in the Middle East or in the anonymous safety of the internet.

21 July 2006 at 21:16  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Thomas Fuller,

You are more than welcome.

Cranmer did not mean to imply the troubles are merely half a century old - this was merely the 're-birth' of the state of Israel. But neither are the troubles a mere 2000 years old, as you state. One may more accurately say they are around 4000 years old, to the era of Abraham, noting that the principal dispute between Jews and Muslims is the question of sacrifice and inheritance - Isaac or Ishmael. Who inherits? The firstborn of the second wife (Isaac - the forebear of the Jewish race), or the second-born of the first wife (Ishamel - the forebare of the Muslim-Arab race)?

Answers on a postcard...

Though, of course, Cranmer accords with your assessment of the provocation on both sides, and the appalling tragedy being inflicted on many innocent people.

21 July 2006 at 22:23  
Blogger Alistair McConnachie said...

Dear "Cranmer"

Thanks for your response.

It seems you are more eager to suck up to Jews than you are to defend British citizens endangered by Jewish aggression.

Why?

Is sucking up to Jews a requirement to get into heaven these days? Strange...never used to be!

If you were Jewish, I would understand your attitude, but since I presume you are a "Christian", then I advise you to pray deeply and ask your Maker just whom Jesus would bomb.

Alistair
www.sovereignty.org.uk

21 July 2006 at 23:06  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Cranmer as much as I enjoy your non Israel postings i am with Alistair on this.
How can a "Christian" condone murder?
And murder it surely is.
Genocide in fact.

21 July 2006 at 23:17  
Blogger Croydonian said...

If, as I believe, Thomas Fuller is referring to Rupert Murdoch, I should point out that he is not Jewish.

21 July 2006 at 23:23  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr "Alistair McConachie"

Cranmer does not condone murder. Nothing written here or elsewhere implies any such thing. Your ignorance of theology, history, and me, renders you almost not worth bothering with, not least because everything in my previous post was ignored by you, including the inconsistencies in your own crusade for 'self-determination' (for everyone but the Jews). You seem to be incapable of reading things in context, and certainly did not read my post to Mr Thomas Fuller, clearly expressing grave concern at the loss of life on both sides. This blog is for the intelligent and erudite. You are deficient in the former, or simply incapable of reading things impartially. You seem content simply to hurl platitudinous insults, and that has no place on this blog.

Jews are a race; Christianity is a faith. One could, therefore, be both.

Now go away, run along, and play on a blog more conducive to your level of intellect.

21 July 2006 at 23:51  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

croydonian
as he popped out of a jewish womb
he is indeed part of the club

21 July 2006 at 23:52  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Jews are a race;
that would expain the falashas, the sephardic jews, the askhenazi
jews and that lot they recently founf in China?

21 July 2006 at 23:56  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

ps
I really must spell check more often while angry.

21 July 2006 at 23:59  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Phone Cam Fool,

There were 12 tribes of Israel. They were scattered abroad - the dispora - on a number of occasions throughout their history. So, yes, they are all over the world, including possibly the groups you mention.

'Jewishness' is traditionally inherited through the female line. If a Jewess marries a male Gentile, the children are Jewish; if a Jew maries a female Gentile, the children are Gentile.

Why are you angry? You die earlier.

22 July 2006 at 00:03  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

All depends if you "believe"
Tell me where you live cramner, theN i can mooch up and claim that I have a very old documment that says god said your house is mine, I may not have the deeds ,however, my grandmother said what you have is mine
Dont call me a fool again

22 July 2006 at 00:22  
Anonymous Old Red Socks said...

PCF,

As you have (elsewhere) declared yourself a BNP supporter, Cramner's mild use of 'fool' seems unduly complimentary.

22 July 2006 at 00:37  
Blogger Croydonian said...

PCF,

The National Alliance, a frankly terrifying neo-Nazi party in the US (they of William 'Turner Diaries' Pierce') has a lengthy item on Jews in the media, and they report David Irving's claim that Elisabeth Greene was Jewish, but concede that they have not been able to confirm it.

22 July 2006 at 00:42  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

I think Cranmer has every right to call you a fool, Phone Cam. Not only are you a guest in his space, but you foolishly say:

i can mooch up and claim that I have a very old documment that says god said your house is mine, I may not have the deeds ,however, my grandmother said what you have is mine

as though this articulate theory trashed Jewish history. In fact, this is the exact reasoning used by Muslims to justify demands for Palestine.

22 July 2006 at 08:13  
Blogger Cranmer said...

The Guardian his issued this 'clarification':

Yesterday's cartoon on page 29 (Comment) portrayed Israeli military action in Lebanon in the form of a mailed fist with Stars of David as knuckle-dusters. By failing to identify them in a specifically Israeli form - such as in the colours of the flag - the point the cartoon was making might have been interpreted as implicating Judaism rather than the Israeli government in the present conflict. That was not the intention, and we are sorry if anyone saw it that way.

As Melanie Philips observes:

So vilifying the Jewish state using Judeophobic imagery is ok, as long as everyone knows it’s Israel that’s being vilified and not Jews, who are of course different.

The source of this venom is not merely the charge that Israel is using ‘disproportionate’ force in Lebanon and Gaza. It is the belief that Israel has no right to use force at all to defend itself, because Israel has no right to exist.

The venom of Arab propaganda — aided and abetted, it cannot be said too often, by Israeli revisionist ‘historians’ whose own pathological lies and distortions aimed at constructing the myth of Israel’s birth in original sin have been seized upon by Jew-haters the world over — has seeped deep into the British psyche, uniting the left, Islamists, neo-Nazis and a vast swathe of basically well-meaning but lethally confused and ignorant Middle Britain in the firm belief that Israel, the principal victim of Islamic fascism, is actually the instigator of injustice.

Such people believe the Palestinians are true inhabitants of a land called ‘Palestine’, who were cruelly dispossessed by the European Jews after the Holocaust. This is untrue. It is the Jews who are the historic inhabitants of the land of Israel, a nation state restored to them by the world in recognition of that historic claim and the unique global persecution of the Jews for which the world bore no small responsibility. Very few Pasletinian Arabs were dispossessed: the actual land was overwhelmingly sold, by Arabs to Jews, or it was empty, or the Arabs fled from it because they were told by the Arab world that the Jewish state would be strangled at its rebirth.


Cranmer thanks God for those who dare to speak truth on this contentious issue.

22 July 2006 at 09:19  
Anonymous Rick said...

Rick
they seem to have passed the family trade on to later generations.
Saddam Hussein gasses some Kurds, several years later he is a monster and we invade , well thats ok.
Isael destroys the lebanon for the lives of 3 soldiers well all is fine and dandy,
I am afraid you have been brainwashed by the holocaust industry



Saddam Hussein was challenging our authority through the Security Council; he was almost free of sanctions which France and Russia were making great efforts not to renew. As s8uch he had to be destroyed; the action was rather ineffectual I feel and done without due rigour.


As for your trite comment about preserving Hezbollah - it is more a question of Resolution 1559 of the Security Council and disarmament of Hezbollah.

It is a terror organisation backed by Islamofascists, it should be destroyed. If Israel does so all well and good, it saves us the trouble. Israel has made the same mistake Britain made - in 2000 it withdrew from Lebanon and in 2005 it withdrew from Gaza - both situations have turned veery hostile and unstable.

In 1923 Britain ceased its Occupation of the Rhineland and left Germany; in 1936 Hotler reoccupied the Rhineland; it was 1945 before Britain could again enter The Rhineland at a cost of 38 million dead

22 July 2006 at 11:30  
Anonymous Rick said...

http://pakistanspace.tripod.com/archives/47indian.htm

I recommend reading the above:

Section 1

(1) As from the fifteenth day of August, nineteen hundred and forty-seven, two independent Dominions shall be set up in India, to be known respectively as India and Pakistan.


The Islamic Republic of Pakistan exists by virtue of an Act of Parliament passed in Westminster in 1947. There is no other basis for the partitioning of India and wars have occurred between the two in 1947-48; 1965, and 1971.

http://tinyurl.com/n85lc

China is clearly preparing for the next one.

None of the countries in the former Ottoman Empire have a long nation-state history - Lebanon was created by France and the Jumblatt family with the Bekaa Valley extracted from Syria. Saudi Arabia seized the Muslim holy sites from the Hashemites who had to make do with Transjordan, and Iraq was created by the British who attached Mosul to the Kurds and not to Turkey.

Israel has a greater claim to legitimacy in the Middle East than does Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon, or Iraq, or Syria.........perhaps all these League of Nations Mandates should one day recognise they failed to develop properly because of the chaotic Ottoman Empire and that really they were better as colonies, for almost none of them have a proper national identity.

Hezbollah is just another tribe seeking to subsume national identity within Pan-Arabism just as Nasser tried, and the Baath Party attempted.

22 July 2006 at 11:47  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

the media is controlled by a dispopotonatley high number of jews.
I suppose that is all down to them the chosen ones.
type jew watch into google

22 July 2006 at 13:41  
Anonymous Rick said...

I don't need to type that site into Google I know of it already.

So what - why should all Jews think alike ? I don't think Noam Chomsky thinks like Joe Lieberman.............why do you think because people share a religious identity they think alike ?

How simply peculiar.

22 July 2006 at 14:20  
Blogger Alistair McConnachie said...

Dear "Cranmer"

The inverted commas are there because that is not your real name. You shelter behind this pseudonymous moniker, afraid apparently to give your real name and address - unlike me.

I didn't address your point about sovereignty and self-determination, so I will do so now.

Yes, I support sovereignty and self-determination for Israel, but apparently unlike you, I support that for Lebanon too.

Having said that, I do not think the Israelis need my support to be sovereign and self-determining - much less yours!

As for the Guardian's "clarification".

Ha ha ha!

Are they suggesting that "Judaism" has nothing to do with the present conflict and is not "implicated"?

Eh, I think "Cranmer" would disagree somewhat!

Has he not just told us in his reply to Thomas Fuller that, "Cranmer did not mean to imply the troubles are merely half a century old - this was merely the 're-birth' of the state of Israel. But neither are the troubles a mere 2000 years old, as you state.One may more accurately say they are around 4000 years old, to the era of Abraham, noting that the principal dispute between Jews and Muslims is the question of sacrifice and inheritance - Isaac or Ishmael. Who inherits? The firstborn of the second wife (Isaac - the forebear of the Jewish race), or the second-born of the first wife (Ishamel - the forebare of the Muslim-Arab race)?

In other words, according to "Cranmer", Judaism is indeed at the heart of the conflict, and an awareness of this appears to animate his, frankly, unseemly and unChristian concern for Israel.

Alistair
www.sovereignty.org.uk

22 July 2006 at 19:48  
Blogger Thomas Fuller said...

Alistair McC --

Your argument could equally be used to say that the Arabs are at the heart of the conflict, as indeed they are.

I have no particular brief for the Archbishop, but it seems to me that the point of his post is to draw attention to the unpleasantly antisemitic and propagandist nature of the cartoon. Such images do nothing but harden people's positions (and their hearts). In his reply to me above, he bemoans bloodshed on both sides of the divide.

[Incidentally, compare the civilized reaction to this cartoon with that, earlier in the year, to the Jyllands-Posten controversy.]

22 July 2006 at 20:45  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr "Alistair McConnachie"

How do you know Cranmer is not my real name? Do you really think there has only been one Thomas Cranmer? Since I only have your word that McConnachie is your real name, it's hardly much to go on.

There is nothing unChristian about my support for Israel; you seem to purposely ignore the content of my responses, and there is clearly no point in responding further. Your speculative flights of fancy about my beliefs on anything simply highlight your own contentious superficiality. And since every post you make on this blog carries your 'sovereignty' advertisement, your motive here is clearly self serving and self promoting. So, run along.

22 July 2006 at 20:48  
Blogger Croydonian said...

One might note that Lebanon, along with most of the rest of the Arab world, declared war on the infant state of Israel and has not signed a peace treaty since.

22 July 2006 at 20:49  
Anonymous DavidG said...

Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim protest.

Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim protest.

Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim protest.

Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim protest.

Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim protest.

A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six. No Muslim protest.

Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim protest.

Let’s go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim protest.

Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim protest.

Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim protest.

Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim protest.

Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim protest.

Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim protest

Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim protest.

Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim protest.




Israel fights back after it is attacked, invaded and has people kidnapped by a terrorist organization. Huge Muslim protest.

22 July 2006 at 20:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cranmer, just discovered your blog. Good work: dealing with some of the comments above must make running your blog seem like paddling through a sewer. But fortunately for us civilians out here we don't have to reply to, let alone read, the comments. Keep the faith and God bless you. Best regards, a friend and new subscriber.

22 July 2006 at 21:02  
Blogger Croydonian said...

DavidG - Indeed, and they've even been known to celebrate such things.

22 July 2006 at 21:06  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Anonymous,

Thank you for your kind comments, and you are most welcome. Just one thing...

Cranmer tries to discourage anonymice. It's really difficult responding to someone's post if there are five people posting called 'anonymous'! So, Cranmer requests that you call yourself something. Maybe 'Colin', or some such.

Thank you. May you be edified, and may your contributions be erudite.

Mr David G

Welcome to you also (though Cranmer has seen your thoughtful contributions before, but fears he may have rudely omitted to welcome you. Please forgive the omission. Mr Croyodian is right to highlight the celebration of such things. Mr "Alistair McConnachie" might like to consider the last time he saw Israeli Jews dancing in the steets celebrating the deaths of Palestinian children, or the slaughter of women.

22 July 2006 at 21:48  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Cranmer
google the weehawken five

23 July 2006 at 00:35  
Blogger Cranmer said...

?

...that "the Bush administration planned, plotted and carried out the indiscriminate slaughter of its own citizens on September 11, 2001"?

Go to bed. You are drunk.

23 July 2006 at 00:42  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

yes,
no
no I am not

23 July 2006 at 00:44  
Anonymous Rick said...

phone cam foolery said...

yes,
no
no I am not


Sober you have lost your best defence.

23 July 2006 at 07:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Arch Bishop
Would you describe your Christianity as 'muscular' rather than the wet liberal stuff we have become used to hearing?

23 July 2006 at 20:23  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Anonymous,

Cranmer does not respond to anonymous emails. If you call yourself Colin, or some such, he would be happy to reply.

23 July 2006 at 22:23  
Anonymous billy said...

Dear Arch Bishop
Would you describe your Christianity as 'muscular' rather than the wet liberal stuff we have become used to hearing?

Sorry about the ealier post; I must have clicked the wrong button!

23 July 2006 at 22:35  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Billy,

You are very welcome.

Yes, and it is achieved without steroids.

23 July 2006 at 22:48  
Anonymous Mr. Billy said...

Thank you for the prompt reply.
It seems to me that in all of this struggle that goes on in the Middle East we Christians need the help of the Israelis. Appeasing those who hate us and and characterise us as 'Crusaders' wll be disasterous. Our moral duty is to help Israel.

23 July 2006 at 23:21  
Anonymous Rick said...

Appeasing those who hate us and and characterise us as 'Crusaders' wll be disasterous

On the masthead of the Daily Express is a Crusader from the das of Beaverbrook as a Free Trader. Now if the word "Jihad" which is a military campaign is used so readily I see no reason why "Crusade" has any problem connotation.

I have never heard of Muslim missionaries, nor Muslim monasteries, nor anything but violence since violence it necessary to control men on earth and it is a pure temporal empire that Islam addresses - how Arab pagans can break out of The Hejaz and dominate

24 July 2006 at 06:59  
Anonymous willow said...

Davidg said -
"Israel fights back after it is attacked, invaded and has people kidnapped by a terrorist organization."

The situation in the Middle East is continuing to deteriorate as Israel fails to do any significant damage to Hezbollah and has instead inflicted massive damage on the people and infrastructure of Lebanon. Rather than try to resolve the conflict in a more productive way, Israel has decided to step up its collective punishment on innocent civilians safe in the knowledge that it has the complete support of the USA and Britain.

Israel is bombing Lebanon, claiming that the life of every single Israeli is VERY important to them (and thus are doing this to regain the 2 prisoners held captive). What about the lives of all the Lebanese civilians that they have killed???

Israel is not completely innocent in everything that has happened. Look who broke the ceasefire between Israel and Palestine.....
I am not defending Hezbollah.... Hezbollah are also wrong in their actions)


Why must one who does not agree with Israel be classed as a 'Jew-hater'?

24 July 2006 at 15:11  
Anonymous Old Red Socks said...

Willow,

"Why must one who does not agree with Israel be classed as a 'Jew-hater'?"

Because the sad but inescapable fact is that many of them are.

I am certainly not counting you among their number, but the probability is that the most of the apologists (which you are not) for Hamas and Hizbollah will be anti semitic.

And what should Israel do after months of bombardment deliberately into civilian areas by Hezbollah operating with impunity from Lebanon?

24 July 2006 at 15:40  
Anonymous Rick said...

to do any significant damage to Hezbollah

German TV thoughtfully pointed out last night - but British TV does not - that Hezbollah forbids them to film them at all. So from TV you will get no idea of Hezbollah losses.

There are trucks carrying dead Iranian Revolutionary Guardsmen to Syria for repatriation to Iran - so obviously they have died of old age.

Let us all hope that Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards have taken enormous casualties !

24 July 2006 at 16:11  
Blogger Croydonian said...

A quote from Dr Sacks:

"Israel is fighting today in Lebanon because six years ago it withdrew from Lebanon. Israel is fighting today in Gaza because one year ago it withdrew from Gaza. And Israel discovered the terrible truth spoken by the late Mother Theresa - that no good deed goes unpunished."

24 July 2006 at 16:20  
Anonymous Rick said...

http://lighthorse.blogspot.com/2006/07/pope-calls-for-crusade.html

24 July 2006 at 16:28  
Anonymous willow said...

Thank you Old Red Socks.
(I really like your name)

"And what should Israel do after months of bombardment,"

I don't know, call for a ceasefire???

I condemn the violence by both sides, especially against civilians. But the collective punishment of the people of Lebanon at the hands of Israeli's cannot be accepted as part of "Israel's right to defend itself."

The vast majority of Lebanese now suffering the destruction of their country, along with hundreds of civilian deaths from the Israeli bombing campaign, had nothing to do with Hezbollah's attacks on Israeli soldiers, nor subsequent rocket attacks on Israeli cities.

Israel rejected a call for ceasefire by the United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan, carrying on with its raids, with the support of Britain and the US.
Lebanese ministers have called for a ceasefire with Israel, saying that all means should be used to end "open aggression" against their country, but it is the Israeli's who are refusing the call for an immediate ceasefire.

The idea that the cycle of violence will come to an end by means of more violence, and especially attacks on civilian areas, is wrong and immoral.

24 July 2006 at 16:59  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Your Grace

This thread is rather worrying to a person of nervous disposition such as myself. I rather wish you hadn't started it.

In peace and fellowship, I remain, etc.

24 July 2006 at 17:25  
Anonymous Rick said...

TEHRAN, Iran - Hezbollah's representative in
Iran struck a defiant tone Monday, warning that his Islamic militant group plans to widen its attacks on
Israel until "no place" is safe for Israelis.
ADVERTISEMENT

Hossein Safiadeen also reinforced earlier threats by Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah to widen the scope of attacks, which have included unprecedented missile strikes deep into northern Israel.

"We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe," Safiadeen told a conference that included the Tehran-based representative of the Palestinian group Hamas and the ambassadors from Lebanon,Syria and the Palestinian Authority.

"You will see a new Middle East in the way of Hezbollah and Islam, not in the way of Rice and Israel."

24 July 2006 at 17:35  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Aubrey de Tocquaine,

You are very welcome.

Threads tend to take on a life of their own, and Cranmer is content to leave them develop a frank exchange of contentious opinion, provided, of course, that all contributions are erudite and intelligent.

Cranmer is particularly welcoming of intelligent people of a nervous disposition. Here you shall find rest unto your soul.

24 July 2006 at 19:20  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

From The Guardian:

Israel today is facing a sustained onslaught from one of the world's most dangerous and effective terrorist organisations. In the past few days, 1,000 rockets and 1,200 mortar rounds have been hurled across the border by Hizbullah at hospitals, schools and homes. Their intention is the killing and maiming of Israelis in general.
Israel is fighting back. Israel's use of force is entirely proportionate to the extent of the threat that Hizbullah poses. A third of our people are in immediate danger of Hizbullah missiles and are sheltering for fear of their lives. The whole of the north of our country has in effect been shut down. International law recognises the right to respond to the extent of a threat, and Israel has therefore acted within international law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1827967,00.html

25 July 2006 at 09:24  
Anonymous Rick said...

http://israelibunker.blogspot.com/

An insider view

25 July 2006 at 11:54  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Your Grace

Thank you for your welcome, as also your kind words. I shall drop in from time to time, if I may, if only to urge politeness on some of your more excitable visitors.

In pleasant anticipation

I remain, &c.

25 July 2006 at 16:00  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Aubrey de Tocquaine,

You may drop in any time you wish. There are the occasional over-excitable trolls who frequent this blog, but they are invariably intellectually and theologically deficient, and retreat from from the high standards of intellectual debate demanded by the regulars. Your assistance in reminding them of courtesy is always welcome, as would be your urging them towards a more enlightened path of spirituality.

25 July 2006 at 16:47  
Blogger Alistair McConnachie said...

"Cranmer" suggested of me that I "might like to consider the last time [I] saw Israeli Jews [love the "Israeli" bit] dancing in the steets celebrating the deaths of Palestinian children, or the slaughter of women."

Well, I do know for a fact that Jews like to put up commemorative plagues about their terrorist activities such as bombing the King David hotel, as exposed here
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2277717,00.html (20 July 2006)

How do you answer this behaviour? Are the Jews justified in this commemoration? What excuses can you make for them, or are you going to take refuge in your "reality is optional" wierd religionism again.

Alistair
www.sovereignty.org.uk

25 July 2006 at 22:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you answer this behaviour? Are the Jews justified in this commemoration?

Rather strange considering how many Jews died in that massacre, but Netanyahu obviously wants the Old Trooper vote of the Stern Gang and Irgun fanatics.........I should not think it represents Israelis as a whole who have other worries

26 July 2006 at 07:33  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Mr McConnachie said: Well, I do know for a fact that Jews like to put up commemorative plagues

Dear Mr McC,

I would be most interested to know which diseases are used for this purpose.

Yours, etc.

A. de T.

26 July 2006 at 11:30  
Blogger Croydonian said...

Alistair,

You might wish to read this item in Haaretz which opens by describing the bombing thus: "The terror attack on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem was in its day the equivalent of the Twin Towers".

26 July 2006 at 11:36  
Anonymous Amo said...

Now you know how many Muslims felt when Muhammed was cartooned in Denmark. All of this is wrong. Journalists should respect religions, not mock them. It only causes ill feelings, and that leads to arguments, and that leads to conflict, and that leads to war, etc, etc, etc.

28 July 2006 at 22:26  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

Amo, this is reasonable, except that no Jews have been violently protesting as a response, no embassies burned, no-one killed. They seem to have a sense of proportion. The Muslim response to the Mohamed cartoons was OTT.

29 July 2006 at 10:01  
Anonymous Rick said...

I do think the Middle East press should be much more circumspect - there are some vile cartoons - more respect for Christians and Jews and Hindus - in fact Muslim countries should show exactly the same respect and grant the same freedoms to Christians as Christian countries grant Muslims.

What could be more equitable than that ?

29 July 2006 at 11:56  
Anonymous Amo said...

With that I agree, Rick, except that Islam would not use the term 'equitable' as there cannot be equality between religions. That leads to 'anything goes', and that can never produce a harmonised society. The western situation is proof of this. There can however be equality between peoples and a demand to respect freedom of beliefs, but this is not the same as equality of beliefs.

29 July 2006 at 12:12  
Anonymous Rick said...

and a demand to respect freedom of beliefs, but this is not the same as equality of beliefs.

I see your point. Christianity is superior to Islam, yet Muslims can build mosques in BRitain with Saudi money and pray freely.

When will Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Iran, permit the same ?

29 July 2006 at 15:08  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Complain to the Metropolitan Police ? Oh, just fuck off ! I had some sympathy with you for the Rageh Omaar piece on the BBC. And I think you are an intelligent and wise blogger. But what is this Israel arse-licking all about.

Martin Rowson is a genius cartoonist. He satirises everyone. Remember the Mohammed cartoons row. The Danish flag burning.

For goodness sake, you whinge on about the BBC etc. - get a life. Just because you don't control the media, and there is freedom of speech, so you don't always have things delivered which exactly co-incide with your own views. The police [should] have better things to do with their time than waste it looking into fucking cartoons satirising religion and Zionists.

6 August 2006 at 16:32  
Blogger Derek Wall said...

Alistair McConnachie seems to be someone rather further to the right than the Guardian, famously suspended from UKIP for writing on the holocaust and someone who sells copies of the New Unhappy Lords from his sites.

Criticism of Israel's appalling actions needs to be made (in my opinion, at least) but some critics have deeper motives than others!

He is not a great fan of asylum seekers either!

9 August 2006 at 23:08  
Anonymous anti alistair! said...

alistair is a big rascist cock jockey

31 January 2008 at 16:38  
Anonymous db said...

alistair is racist and a disgusting

31 January 2008 at 16:48  
Blogger Paul said...

It is the state of Israel that chose to put a religious symbol on their flag. That puts the symbol in a deliberately ambivalent position such that one cannot criticise the state without risking fatuous accustations of religious intolerance. This is not accidental.

28 November 2010 at 12:03  

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