Sunday, August 27, 2006

Archbishop of Canterbury takes a lead

Cranmer must confess a degree of surprise to be writing this article. It is reported in The Sunday Telegraph that the Archbishop of Canterbury has come off the fence on the issue of homosexual relations, and has told homosexuals that ‘they need to change their behaviour if they are to be welcomed into the church’. The Archbishop has found it difficult to come off any fence since being appointed the 104th to the See of Canterbury, and this issue has presented him with numerous problems, not least because of his strong defence of same-sex relationships earlier in his academic career.

However, unlike the Pope, the Archbishop never pronounces infallibly, and is therefore permitted to change his mind on such issues. Of course, the liberal wing of the Church of England is somewhat dismayed, as are certain homosexual politicians. One such, the Labour MP Chris Bryant, said that many people would feel betrayed by the Archbishop's comments. He added: ‘Rowan has refashioned the Church of England into a narrow-minded, conservative sect.’ Aside from the observation that this homosexual MP presumes to be on first-name-terms with the Archbishop, his comments about the Church of England are perfectly scriptural:

‘narrow-minded’ - broad is the way to destruction, but narrow is the path to salvation.
‘conservative’ - disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
‘sect’ - Luke consistently reminds his audience that Christianity is indeed a sect of Judaism.

But Mr Bryant’s complaints are possibly more to do with his own spiritual struggle and concerns for his personal salvation. The MP professes to be a Christian, yet posts pictures of himself on the internet, soliciting for buggery with complete strangers. Scripture doesn't really tolerate that sort of behaviour. Such conduct is an abuse of his position of influence and authority, and Scripture is quite damning of that also. No wonder he takes issue with Rowan’s ‘narrow-minded, conservative sect’.

48 Comments:

Anonymous Rick said...

I don't think you enhance your own blog Your Grace by posting gaydar images online, especially of one as trivial as the former BBC man, and Conservative activist, as Labour MP Chris Bryant.

As for Rowan Williams, he has just been in the US at a conference and has probably seen that the money (which funds C of E junkets and hotels) is going with the orthodox Christians and the Wiccans, Druids, and Hellbent Hedonists within ECUSA are going bust in a magnificent way.

I have no ability to imbue Rowan Williams with any sense of credibility and as such he can spin like a weather vane or sing the words to The Vicar of Bray, but he has failed miserably in the post to which he was appointed.

27 August 2006 at 11:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It’s a funny old world, the Archbishop tells homosexuals that ‘they need to change their behaviour if they are to be welcomed into the church’.

In the good old days we used to be told that "This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them" was an accusation made against Jesus of Nazareth. Something to do with Luke 15:2 I believe, still I suppose times and standards do move on, an Archbishop cannot be on first name terms with just anyone.

27 August 2006 at 14:52  
Anonymous Lena Mouse said...

Yeeuuch! I shouldn't have to look at this on a Sunday! It's good that the Archbishop has come off his fence, and if his only critics include the likes of Chris Bryant, there's not much to worry about.

27 August 2006 at 14:53  
Blogger Thomas Fuller said...

Anonymous quoth: This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them

The latest textual research, sponsored by the Gay Clergy Association, reveals that the word "with" in that sentence is spurious and should be omitted. The exact meaning of "eat" in the Greek is also open to conjecture: the Association has put one gloss upon it, while the theologians of the Camberwell and District Christian Anthropagy Society prefer another. Just goes to show how risky it is to take a translated text too seriously.

Hope this helps.

27 August 2006 at 15:47  
Blogger Thomas Fuller said...

Whoops, that should have been "Anthropophagy Society". Sorry.

27 August 2006 at 15:49  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

What would have happened to a heterosexual MP who was caught soliciting for casual sex online?

The man is a disgrace and has very poor judgement.

27 August 2006 at 16:41  
Anonymous Rick said...

Having now seen the source and found no mention of it on the Canterbury Website I take it withy a pinch of salt. The Telegraph is simply not trustworthy

27 August 2006 at 16:45  
Anonymous Lena Mouse said...

Why would they make it up? I know newspapers occasionally make stories up, but this article includes actual quotations! I think I believe this. Even if he struggled with his final conclusion, it was probably always the one he was going to get to eventually. The alternative would have been the end of the national Church.

27 August 2006 at 17:28  
Anonymous Rick said...

http://www.nd.nl/htm/dossier/seksualiteit/artikelen/060819eb.htm

http://www.nd.nl/htm/dossier/seksualiteit/artikelen/060819ea.htm

http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/001878.html

27 August 2006 at 17:38  
Anonymous Rick said...

The alternative would have been the end of the national Church.

The Erastian Church of England is a different matter from The Anglican Communion...........why this "Communion" has been allowed to infect the Church of England by importing women priests, gay priests, gay bishops, women bishops etc from the USA is something alien to the "national" Church of England

27 August 2006 at 17:40  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

What else have we imported from the trendy American Left?

Progressive Schooling
Feminism
Women Naval Officers on board ship
Large Housing Projects (Tower Block resettlements)
Ticker-Tape Political Party Conferences
The Homosexual Scene (Clubs, Gay Pride demos, etc)
Mass Immigration (Open Borders)
Newsreaders who think they are Celebrities
Political Correctness
Left-Wing propaganda masquerading as Hollywood entertainment
A Listening Station whose data is not shared with its Host
Creative Accounting
Resizing
Obesity (a propensity for)
A belief that women's beauty can be manufactured using technology

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am sure I have missed several other American "cultural" imports off my list. Anyone care to fill in the gaps?

27 August 2006 at 18:54  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

MIA
Apart from the fact that out children are being turned into morons and finger printed,plus being DNA profiled, our cars are being compulsorily fitted with GPS transponders, we are being disarmed, proposals to tax (prevent) our free movement, biometric ID documents, I see no likeness between the USA and the UK

27 August 2006 at 20:04  
Blogger istanbultory said...

The venerable Cranmer's analysis is to be commended as always.
I wonder what his constituents in Rhondda make of his proclivities? Bryant alas has a majority of 16,242 voters. So he needn't give a toss about his constituents views. He is in any case one of Nu Labour's uber-loyalist MP's in the House. The man simply never votes against the government. But for his deviancy on the web I wager he probably would have been a minister by now....although perversion has never been a barrier to promotion in the labour Party.
Is Bryant still Chairman of the Labour Movement for Europe?

27 August 2006 at 20:07  
Anonymous Rick said...

Mission - you forgot Community Colleges to replace Technical Colleges

turning A-Levels into High School Diplomas

use of sycophantic and insincere language such as "Human Resources" - "diversity" "inclusivity"

restructuring society into "helots" and "spartans" with different vocabulary and culture - a situation education had tried to erode between 1920 and 1970

Executives who loot companies to become as rich as those who fouded them

Britain is a counry which has imported the worst excesses of the United States with very few of its redeeming features

27 August 2006 at 20:48  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

Pidginization of the English language.
The ubiquity of the baseball cap.

28 August 2006 at 00:22  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

Well, I hope he doesn't go to Scotland and accidentally catch fire.

See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5291310.stm

Scottish fire fighters are being disciplined for refusing to hand out leaflets at a gay pride march.

Whereas I believe this task is a ludicrous waste of pulic money, and the gay pride march an excercise in the celebration of degeneracy and perversion, I think the fire services have a duty to serve all members of society - don't you?

"Only in Scotland"

28 August 2006 at 09:39  
Anonymous Rick said...

There is another agenda at work. Labour wants to break the culture of the fire service by injecting ethnic minorities and women in supervisory positions - it is doing so in England. There seems to be an agenda under the "diversity" label of infiltrating every organisation with an esprit de corps to bring it into alignment with the party - in Germany after 1933 this was called Gleichschaltung and what we are seeing is a totalitarian approach to identify those who resist and show themselves as ideologically-deviationist.

28 August 2006 at 10:30  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

Very interesting rick and I suspect you are right. It won't work of course. There are ways and means of allowing the majority of sensible people to live as they wish.

As for "infiltration", I understand entirely - except that there is going to be a change of government at the next election and the ethos will change, and change rapidly if my experience is anything to go by. (I was associated with a central arm of the civil service when Thatcher won her first election and believe me, the rules changed virtually overnight and all the tories swarmed out of the woodwork and all the lefties ran to ground.)

Still, even within the C of E there is a lot of crap to deal with. Did anybody hear the mad Dean on "Today" being all chummy about Muslims and how misunderstood they all are?

28 August 2006 at 11:46  
Anonymous RIck said...

Dean on "Today" being all chummy about Muslims and how misunderstood they all are?

Misunderstood is a le mot juste.......those who do understand are simply horrified at the naivety of men like the Dean

28 August 2006 at 13:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In looking for the Today Website I found this which may edify some of our Bloggers.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/gay_divide.shtml

28 August 2006 at 13:47  
Anonymous Rick said...

Venerable David Gunn-Johnson........Thought for The Day..........is this Did anybody hear the mad Dean on "Today" being all chummy about Muslims and how misunderstood they all are?

He is in Devon ? Hardly in the thick of it is he ?

28 August 2006 at 13:54  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Dear Mr Anonymous 1:47 p.m.

I have just visited the Web page you so kindly indicate, but have returned to this sanctified hall none the wiser. Is there a BBC programme called The Gay Divide? If so, what do they divide? The Church? Themselves, if Mohammedans, from their heterosexual fellows? Or perhaps, if you will pardon such coarseness, just their nether limbs?

[Incidentally, Your Grace, I notice you are giving server space to that atrocious cad, "Grafas" Fruning Graplecard. He is as much a Lithuanian count as my coal-hod: indeed, my coal-hod has greater claims to nobility, and has never been in trouble with the police. Will Your Grace not consider turning on Comment Moderation for posts by Fruning Graplecard only? Then they can be deleted in bulk.]

I am, as ever,

Yours truly

A. de T.

28 August 2006 at 14:08  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

Who will rid me of this meddlesome beast?

A. de T is stirring things again with his runcible spoon. He is mad as a Camberwell Carrot and, beside a box of frogs, makes them appear as a convocation of the sane and serene.

As to my title, you will see that I rarely refer to it, and besides, whereever I walk the locals can be overheard saying, "There goes that Count Graplecard"

Your Grace,

I remain, your servant,

Grafas Fruning Graplecard of Sudovia, Order of the Grand Duke Gediminas (2nd.Class), Thane of Mavis Enderby.

28 August 2006 at 16:42  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Rick,
I agree that Nu Labour is propelled by dark totalitarian urges and a desire to Gleichschaltung on all fronts.
However, their innate incompetence and amateurishness means that they (fortunately) lack the capacity to achieve their hearts desire. Suffice to recall their consistent pattern of failure on immigration, u-turns on prison-building and automatic sentence reduction for guilty pleas,the fact that convicted sex offenders are working as teachers, the huge tax credit fraud phenomenon and the fact that thousands of foreign prisoners are in the UK who should have been deported at the end of their sentence. To say nothing of the dire condition of our foreign policy....I could continue ad infinitum.

NuLabour is quite simply a political movement in its death throes.... one that inevitably leaves behind a nasty mess that we will have to untangle circa 2009. Mr Grapplecard your judgement is impeccable. As ever.

28 August 2006 at 16:57  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

The pre-occupation with gaydom in Britain is somewhat perplexing. On the scale of world priorities, I wouldn't even place it in the first division.

The kind of predatory homosexuality Mr. Chris Bryan represents is particularly loathsome. Dealing with that has only become problematic because it is being protected by the feminist impulse that has burrowed deep into the marrow of the anti-male ethos dominating Britain's culture since the late 1970s.

Purging ourselves of that wouldn't take more than a couple of changes to the statute book, and an end to Gay Pride Marches.

Meanwhile, back in the real world (and during the term of New Labour) 1,450 white South African farmers (mainly Boer) have been brutally murdered between 1994 (the year the ANC came to power) and 2003. We can only guess what has happened since 2003.

This is in addition to the many hundreds brutally murdered in neighbouring Rhodesia (Zimbabwe).

A slow genocide has taken place, and the United Nations has issued not one single word of condemnation.

For those of you with a strong constitution, you might like to see some photographic evidence for this politically inspired butchery perpetrated by Black South Africans.

(after page opens, scroll down to find photos)

*** WARNING: These photos are NOT suitable for Children and people of a sensitive nature. ***

And what has our Archbishop said on this issue?

Why do we continue to eulogize that media-friendly Communist, Nelson Mandela?


Life is about priorities, and I believe ours have become decidedly scrambled (if not perverse) in recent decades. Queers, faggots, homos? Bring back the birch, and ban openly Gay males (under the age of 40) from political office. That would soon sort out the current mess.

Meanwhile, evidence is mounting that being a white man outside of the immediate comfort of Britain, Europe, and North America can be dangerous to your health, or even your very survival.

With all due respect to His Grace Cranmer ... the article opening this thread has many merits, but ... does this genocide of white Africans sound like a higher priority to you than the opinions some socialist fool ensconced in Canterbury holds about homosexuals?

It also (surely) represents another shameful failure of the Anglican Church to contribute something of value to humanity.

28 August 2006 at 17:55  
Anonymous Rick said...

GC....I am currently reading an amusing book by one Ann Coulter entitled "Godless".........it is most fascinating how Gov Dukakis of MA was able to give early release to 87 First Degree Murderers and 187 Second Degree Murderers etc and not all of them killed again...........but enough did to see the mission statement from which The Home Office was working.

It is a very amusing book which i recommend...........Godless: The Church of Liberalism (Hardcover)
by Ann Coulter

28 August 2006 at 18:09  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Rick,
I wonder if the Venerable Cranmer is familiar with Ms. Coulter's "Giant Raccoon's Flatulence Theory"....

28 August 2006 at 20:29  
Blogger Cranmer said...

It also (surely) represents another shameful failure of the Anglican Church to contribute something of value to humanity

Mr Mission Impossible,

The failings of the aforementioned institution are so manifestly numerous that, regretfully, His Grace is unable to itemise and analyse them all. He fully understands, however, your concern about the genocide in the former colonies, and awaits the opportune time to raise the profile of inquiry.

28 August 2006 at 20:45  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Dear Mr Graplecard
I have photographic evidence (sepia tinted) exposing some of the more exotic practises that Mr Aubrey de Toquaine chooses to indulge in during his frequent trips to Morocco, should you choose to bung me a few quid I will of course be happy to post them in a plain brown envelope to a post box at your local tobacconist for your delectation.

28 August 2006 at 20:45  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Dear Mr Hitchens

I doubt that "Grafas" Graplecard would pay you more than 5p for photographs of my decidedly unexotic holiday practices, which comprise the inspection of old churches &c., the collection of certain genera of diurnal microlepidoptera, botanizing (with special reference to the problematic apomictic swarms of Hieraceum), listening to Gregorian chants, and conversing with Lady de Tocquaine and my two daughters, Araminta and Daisy, on these and other subjects.

Your blackmailing tendencies have been noted, however, and an appropriate memorandum has been sent to the Commissioner of Police.

I am, sir,

Yours &c.

A. de T.

28 August 2006 at 21:13  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

Dear Mr Hitchens

Thank you for your kind offer. However, I already have in my posession, compromising pictures of Sir Aubrey, and a written affidavit from the Head Keeper at Bristol Zoo. Apparently the Pink-Tongued Skink has recovered and will be on show later in the season.

I am yours, etc.

Graplecard

28 August 2006 at 21:19  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

"Graplecard" (we both know your real name) --

Why do you not post these "pictures" and a scan of the affidavit on your so-called blog?

Answer: because they do not exist.

28 August 2006 at 22:47  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Mr graplecard
Not only does Mr de toquaine, indulge in exotic pracitses, having closely examined his holiday snaps with a magnifying glass I note that he does so wearing elasticated socks.
Need I say more?
The mans a scoundrel.

28 August 2006 at 23:28  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

The whole sorry saga, together with an incriminating picture of A de T, can be viewed on my blog at

http://theofficialversion.blogspot.com/

Thank you Mr Hitchens.

29 August 2006 at 01:00  
Anonymous Rick said...

Whatever happened to Mr Thomas Fuller or have you sent him back to the scriptwriters for a re-think ?

29 August 2006 at 11:07  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Mr graplecard
I note from the photos available on your blog that not only has the length of hosiery sported by de Toquaines hosiery increased dramatically but they are now suspended from a whalebone corset. Are there no depths to which this man will not sink?
Whatever next, suede shoes ?

29 August 2006 at 11:54  
Blogger Fruning Graplecard said...

Dear Rick

Believe it or not, Neither Mr Thomas Fuller, Aubrey de Tocquaine, or Harold Squibbly is me. Us eccentric retro types are legion (cf our present host). We do however tend to congregate in the village of Scotton Pinkney, (scottonpinkney.blogspot.com) a small place where time stands still and the ladies of the Primrose Club are as fragrant as ever.

Just wait until Sir Aubs sees the compromising pic.

Mr Hitchens. Precisely. And in real life de Tocquaine appears to smell of Geo.Trumper's Canterbury Wood Violet Cologne, and that speaks for itself, I think you will agree?

29 August 2006 at 12:54  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Mr Graplecard agreed,
No doubt he also indulges in the activity know as "mashing" whilst travelling on the London underground.

29 August 2006 at 13:11  
Anonymous Alfred of Wessex said...

Fruning Graplecard 1:00 AM

Have you no shame, Sir? It is clear that in order to defame the character of Mr de Tocquaine, you have sunk to the depths of 'photoshopping' him. I am appalled at this most ungentlemanly behaviour.

My Lord Archbishop, perhaps you might consider excommunicating Mr Grapelcard from your august blog, with readmission conditional upon evidence of genuine repentance.

29 August 2006 at 14:37  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Dear Alfred of Wessex

I hang my head in shame and confess that the photograph is completely authentic. My challenge has backfired.

Suicide is the only honourable course left.

I am, sir, but shall soon cease to be

Yours truly

A. de T.

I tender my apologies to His Grace and to all young persons, and indeed to all those whose sensibilities who might have been affronted or corrupted by this evidence my squalid past.

29 August 2006 at 14:45  
Anonymous David Cameron said...

Don't do it A de T.

The Conservative Party and the Church need people like you. At least you are pervy in a straight kind of way. I can probably get you on the 'A' list, and at a push, a wimmin only one.

29 August 2006 at 15:43  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

Rick:
I am glad to see the recommendation of "Godless". I came across this in a recent interview with Anne Coulter (on her website):

Q: The last time we spoke, you told me you're routinely misquoted by newspaper reporters. What are a couple of the more egregious examples? Why does this happen?

A: It happens so much, I don't even keep track of it anymore. The last one I remember was when I said "cutting the tax rate on capital gains seems to have increased tax receipts for fiscal 2006, just as supply-side economics predicted it would." It came out in the paper as, "I worship Adolf Hitler and share all of his goals, especially the 'final solution' to the 'Jewish problem.'"

29 August 2006 at 17:07  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Sir Aubrey
I agree with David Cameron (a rare thing) there are worse things in this world that you could chose to be a rather than a retro transsexual lawyer with an interest in bondage., in fact you have invented a whole new lifestyle , the retrosexual.
A career in politics no doubt beckons.
PS
If you could secure me an autographed photograph of Robbie Williams or Adam Rickitt I would be most grateful. They are for my niece.

29 August 2006 at 17:12  
Anonymous gradgrind said...

Thus Pseudo-Cranmer:
> ..his comments about the Church of England
> are perfectly scriptural:

> ‘narrow-minded’ - broad is the way to
> destruction, but narrow is the path to
> salvation.

What an extraordinary perversion of one of the prettier verses from your scripture! For one thing 'narrow' is a weak rendering of τεθλιμμένη and "narrow-minded" is in another semantic universe altogether. As to "salvation", whatever that means, it has no place anywhere near the verse in question; hardly a sodomite's charter to be sure, but if you of all chatterers are going to use scripture then get it right!

Εἰσέλθατε διὰ τῆς στενῆς πύλης: ὅτι πλατεῖα καὶ εὐρύχωρος ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ἀπώλειαν, καὶ πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερχόμενοι δι' αὐτῆς: ὅτι στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ζωήν, καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες αὐτήν.

True-Cranmer:
Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be, which go in thereat. For strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life: and few there be, that find it.

2 September 2006 at 17:15  
Anonymous Glasgow fireman said...

The trouble with people like Bryant is that you can't go into a public convenience without encountering them. So you end up being arrested for urinating in the street while buggers like Bryant practice their vice in public toilets with absolute impunity. Roll on diversity training.

2 September 2006 at 20:12  
Blogger Laban said...

The only good thing to come out of Rasputin's latest volte-face is that now neither the conservatives or the liberals now trust him.

However it could be worse. Peter Selby could have got the job.

3 September 2006 at 23:53  
Anonymous a gay. said...

Just one thing to add - I'm pulling you all up on the myriad of posts containing 'gay bashing' material. How about you stop this pathetic display of pseudo-intelluctual bs containing either thinly veiled or utterly blatant homophobia.

Chris Bryant's sexual liasions should only concern him and his partners, his credibility when criticising the A of C should only be undermined by his affiliation with the conservatives and his hair colour.

Cranmer - you are to blame for bringing up his sexuality in the first place. How about we all pretend he's straight so you can continue the discussion without having to deal with the homophobia that is too deeply ingrained in your psyches to be dealt with through anything other than a decade long stint as Hulk Hogan's buttmonkey.

4 September 2006 at 02:08  
Anonymous glasgow fireman said...

I've got no time for thinly-veiled (nb punctuation) homophobia - up here on the Clyde we only do 'utterly blatant' and 'even-more-utterly blatant' sodophobia. Buggery is a disgusting vice and those to practice it deserve the supreme penalty: exile in England.

4 September 2006 at 17:32  

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