Sunday, August 13, 2006

British Muslim leaders to Prime Minister: ‘Change your foreign policy or we’ll blow you up’.

This, actually, is not Cranmer’s summary paraphrase of an open letter from the UK’s leading Muslims, but the words of the Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, Vince Cable. He said that the letter - although ‘expressed in very moderate terms’ - could give some comfort to the kind of people who say: ‘Well, change your foreign policy or we'll blow you up’. British Muslims have a considerable problem when they begin to lose the support of ultra-moderate British opinion, such as that traditionally held by the Liberal Democrats.

This letter could (and should) have been an opportunity for the UK’s leading Muslims to unequivocally condemn terrorist atrocities against British citizens. Instead, the Muslim Council of Britain, Muslim Peers of the Realm, and Muslim Labour MPs have indicated that they believe there to be justification for blowing up women, children and other innocents. They express distaste for the strategy with a series of qualifying ‘buts’. To paraphrase them further:

September 11th was unacceptable, but so is US and British policy in Palestine;
July 7th was unjust, but so was the war with Iraq;
Suicide bombing is appalling, but so is British support for Israel's bombing of Lebanon.

These ‘buts’ do not dissuade the terrorists; they justify their acts by implying that the UK's foreign policy is linked to the terror threat, from which we must infer that such policy must be changed if we are to avoid being blown to kingdom come. Neither foreign policy nor any other policy should be shaped under the threat of terrorist activity. According to Government figures, there are presently 1.6 million Muslims living in the UK. Of these, around 25% profess a degree of sympathy with such terrorist activity. This means that the foreign policy of 60 million British people is being hijacked by around 400,000 Muslims, or less than 0.7% of the population. This stark reality needs to be confronted forcefully, directly, and with no consideration for over-sensitised ‘political correctness’.


Blogger istanbultory said...

Cranmer said
"...This stark reality needs to be confronted forcefully, directly, and with no consideration for over-sensitised ‘political correctness’ "

With "New Labour" at the helm(for whom 'Political Correctness' is a substitute religion and beholden to ethnic minorities as they are in order to hold on to power across municipal Britain),there's not much hope of your prescription for action actually coming to pass.....Whatever its merits.

13 August 2006 at 15:29  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

From the BBC website

Metropolitan Police Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson said the alleged plotters had intended "mass murder on an unimaginable scale

"We are confident that we have disrupted a plan by terrorists to cause untold death and destruction and to commit, quite frankly, mass murder," he said.

"We believe that the terrorists' aim was to smuggle explosives on to aeroplanes in hand luggage and to detonate these in flight. We also believe that the intended targets were flights from the United Kingdom to the United States of America."

Police had spoken to a "good number of community leaders to make them aware that a major operation was under way," he added.

So now the Metropilitan police are tipping off "community leaders" before they raid muslim houses, what if one of those so called leaders were to be in on the plot? a not too unlikely scenario

13 August 2006 at 16:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am none too happy with Saudi Arabia - inter alia - and its treatment of Christians..........does that mean mosques in Britain should be better insured ?

13 August 2006 at 16:49  
Blogger This Royal Throne of Kings said...

Why on earth is it that senior police officers and, I might add, senior politicians - John Prescott as I recall, if he still qualifies for the description of senior politician, given his recent, erm, 'problems' - feel that they have to contact 'community' i.e. Muslim leaders prior to any action being taken in their midst?

I find the entire idea utterly absurd. Are the Muslim 'communities' (and by the way, have you noticed that the very word 'communities' has now become synonymous with those of that religion, as opposed to a wider body of peole inhabiting the same area?) in some way above the law and therefore worthy of special treatment?

Forgive my naivete, but I thought the same rules applied to everyone in this country...

But then again, our current leaders have a vested interest in keeping these 'communities' sweet, don't they, simply in terms of retaining their not inconsiderable voting power at election time.

Perhaps it's time that our criminal classes decided en masse to vote, shall we say, Lib Dem, then their leaders (completely un- representative and self-appointed, of course) may also receive tip-offs, or worse, mealy mouthed, apologetic explanations from senior police officers, or John Prescott, just before the next drug dealer's door gets broken down.

By the way, excellent blog, Your Grace. I hope my ramblings haven't adversely affected its' quality...

13 August 2006 at 17:06  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr This Royal Throne of Kings,

You are more than welcome to Cranmer's blog. All contributions are welcome, provided, as ever, they are intelligent and erudite.

His Grace tolerates 'ramblings', and increasingly looks forward to the comment of certain regular contributors. As you must be a lover of Shakespeare, you would be more than welcome to share your learned insights.

13 August 2006 at 17:14  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Your Grace,
Good to see that apart from keeping abreast of current affairs you have managed to keep up to speed with literary matters post mortem.
As a philistine, I like my Shakespeare "lite"
The only "Shakespearean" performance I have ever enjoyed was Orson welles in the Chimes at midnight, can you get that DVD in purgatory?

13 August 2006 at 17:42  
Anonymous Rick said...

of senior politician,

I think that is a result of modern education and that the term they wish to apply is senile politician - I put it down to the affect effect problem that so afflicts modern school-leavers

13 August 2006 at 17:59  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Your Grace

Reluctant as I am to quibble with a personage of Your Grace's eminence, I am compelled by my innate pedantry to point out ("they justify their acts by inferring that the UK's foreign policy is linked to the terror threat") that "infer" and "imply" are two different words and have different meanings.

Mr Foolery is not wrong to admire your knowledge of young Wm Shakespeare, who was but two years of age when you were ... how shall I put this without seeming indelicate? ... ignited.

Yours with the utmost respect, &c.

A. de T.

13 August 2006 at 18:20  
Blogger Deep Stoat said...

This letter is moderate in tone but rather less benign in intent. It shows the linkage between our foreign policy and acceptance that it will lead to illegal countermeasures at home.

This betrays a dangerous mindset.

It comes from a belief, by Muslims of all types, that their struggle is global. Herein lies the threat. Muslims do not admit to boundaries as we do. They see any perceived wrong against themselves in Afghanistan to be the same as if it was Walthamstow. It does not matter that the fight in Kabul is against drug barons, or that the fight in Baghdad is against bandits and internecene rivalry. They apparently have no yardstick on the rights and wrongs. They are Muslims and that is that, regardless of whether or not they are merciless killers. It also does not matter that killing between sub sects goes on, including the desecration of mosques by one faction or another.

Let us be clear. Muslims here regard themselves to be in a state within a state and in those terms they are verging on treason, with a view to overthrowing our way of life.

13 August 2006 at 18:31  
Anonymous sitting by the river said...

Labour may well pander to these "communities" for delivery of their block votes but their ability to keep doing so requires it to go largely unnoticed by the wider electorate.

This is becoming increasingly hard to manage. Labour will also find themselves in a bidding war for these votes with Respect.

Excellent blog by the way. Always enjoy your comments at Guido's as well.

13 August 2006 at 18:47  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Dear Aubrey
Unless I am mistaken, and that happens now and again, our pal Archbishop Cranmer was tossed onto the BBQ 8 years prior to the birth of young master Will shakespeare.
Pedantically yours.

13 August 2006 at 18:52  
Blogger UK Daily Pundit said...

You're spot on, Archchipshop. A comment - which I am sure you will have noticed - is neither intelligent nor erudite. But spot on nonetheless.

Incidentally, would it be possible to have a separate comment facility for those of us who never quite got to grips with the curriculum, but mean well?

13 August 2006 at 18:57  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

UK daily pundit,
You're a bit of a pompous t*** are'nt you? (+:
Unlike most other posters on this blog you also seem to be lacking a sense of humour.

13 August 2006 at 19:43  
Blogger Terry Hamblin said...

British foreign policy has not changed from when it advocated support for the Kosovans when threatened by the Serbs or for the Bosnians when threatened from the same quarter.

The decision that the Treaty of Westphalia (something that your Grace might have missed out on) should no longer apply to modern nation states, allowed British and American forces to interfere in the internal affairs of another country when genocide is believed to be happening. Thus the war against Iraq followed the war against Serbia as a natural consequence. Muslims were very grateful for the intervention on their side in Yugoslavia and initially very grateful to be rid of the tyrant Saddam.

What has happened since then is complicated and I am not sure whether they are angry at us because we allow Sunnis to kill Shiites or because we allow Shiites to kill Sunnis. Or is it because we are trying to stop Sunnis killing Shiiites and Shiites killing Sunnis?

During the Iran v Iraq bout I took the Shakespearean view that there should be a plague on both their houses.

Although I have Jewish blood (down the female line) I would not be welcome in Israel as I am an evangelical Christian who does not follow the Scofield Bible and does not regard the existance of the state of Israel as a sign of the imminent second coming of the Lord. Nevertheless, in this present bout of hostilities it is clear that Hezbollah started it, and must accept the consequences of their action. An immediate cease fire and withdrawal of the IDF with Hezbollah in place would reward them for their aggression.

Our Lord said, Blessed are the peacemakers. Our esteemed Mr Blair was holding out for the only possible path to peace. In my opinion his approach has been even handed and fair.

It is clear that the letter from the various Muslim bands is partisan and quite rightly it is being rejected.

Your grace may not have come across the sport of Association Football yet, but I am told that it is quite usual for supporters of either side to belive that the referee is unfairly favooring the other side. It is seldom true.

13 August 2006 at 19:58  
Anonymous Rick said...

There is currently on NTV German televsion a programme running about Al-Qaeda and its activities in Europe. One interesting profile that was derived was that the Salafist Jihadi were not particularly devout initially.

The profile was of foreign students feeling homesick going to the local mosque and being recruited there and given special attention by the Salafists - thus the initially non-devout learn to recite the Arabic and find their isolation increasingly a source of satisfaction and full of purpose.

It is a real problem in Europe today that politicians are irreligious and consequently have no conception of the power of religion, something that the 17th Century would have better understood than the somewhat less well enlightened 21st century.

The politics of buying off problems is not one capable of solving the current dilemma. Max Frisch once wrote a nice play about this "Biedermann & Die Brandstifter" where poor M. Bourgeois tries to induce the arsonists not to burn his house down and tries Reason, Money, is another piece of cultural experience lacking in our political class who think their slickness has sidelined religious conviction

13 August 2006 at 20:38  
Anonymous Dexey said...

phone cam foolery said...
UK daily pundit,
You're a bit of a pompous t*** are'nt you? (+:
Unlike most other posters on this blog you also seem to be lacking a sense of humour.

7:43 PM

Unlike MI?

13 August 2006 at 21:05  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Rick, our political class does have a religion, Marxism, a fact you have already pointed out.
If not Marxism, it is another form of elitism.
"I know whats best for you, now shut up and obey"
self appointed elites are just that, whatever name they choose to hide behind.
I may not be erudite, however, I know shit when I step in it.

13 August 2006 at 21:09  
Blogger istanbultory said...

In today's Torygraph (of all places), Ali Miraj, who is a Board Member of (something called) the Conservative Party Policy Review on International and National Security and a former Conservative PPC has opined thus:
" is the foreign policy pursued by the US and Britain, not deprivation or a clash of values, in my view, that is the principal catalyst of radicalisation....Tony Blair argues that Muslims have a "false sense of grievance" towards the West. He is wrong..."

Alas, the mantra of anti-westernism and Islamofascist apologizing, it seems, is not restricted merely to "New Labour". Our entire political class seems to be in denial at the origins of the crisis facing wesrern civilisation.

Your Grace, what else, other than rigorous prayer and a spot of genocidal slaughter, can we do that might stave off the advances of the Mohammedan hoardes???

13 August 2006 at 22:09  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Aubrey de Tocquaine, LL.D

His Grace thanks you for your recent infusion of pedantry, and is, as always, impressed by your attention to the minuscule.

While he agrees with the distinction between 'infer' and imply', he begs to point out that the Oxford English Dictionary lists his intended meaning as a secondary definition:

infer: 1 deduce or conclude from facts or reasoning, 2 imply, suggest.

While the secondary meaning is indeed disputed, that it appears in the Oxford English Dictionary is sufficient for His Grace to feel justified in its use on this occasion. In future, however, he will be careful to adhere to primary definitions, in order to save you the bother of having to contribute on such trivia.

On a further point of pedantry, Mr Phone Cam Foolery is quite correct to point out that my demise preceded the birth of Mr Shakespeare by eight years. I knew him, of course, from our conversations in another place, which we have enjoyed since 1616. He has been as admiring of my magnum opus as I have been of his opera. One had to pass the time away somehow.

Mr GC,

His Grace is considering this. It may be that a few political martyrs need to come to the fore, just as we used to...

13 August 2006 at 22:12  
Blogger istanbultory said...

You make an excellent point on the tight interconnection Salafism and Islamist violence. Salafism is the ideological heritage of groups such as al-Qaeda. As you correctly point out, Salafism originally sought to reconcile Islam with modernism. Indeed, the early Salafists believed that Islam had diverged from its true meaning over time and they admired the technological and social advancement of Europe’s Enlightenment. But there was always a split between those Salafists who sought to change society through 'education',preaching/evangelizing and those who favoured violent means. The chaps favouring violence won out. But Salafism only completely degenerated into an ideology of xenophobic alienation once the House of Saud adopted it as a means to overcome the threat posed by Pan-Arabism.

13 August 2006 at 22:28  
Blogger Mercian Crusader said...

Your Grace,

BUT is a great word. In the dictionary and taken literally it means 'On the contrary' or is used to indicate an exception.

Pyschologically BUT also means that everything preceeding it is a lie. So if we take the letter as advertised in the press.

September 11th was unacceptable, BUT so is US and British policy in Palestine;
July 7th was unjust, BUT so was the war with Iraq;
Suicide bombing is appalling, BUT so is British support for Israel's bombing of Lebanon.

If we take everything preceeding the BUT as a lie this letter shows a lot of support for the actions of 'another minority'.

The other problem is that Muslims consider themselves muslim first. It is always faith first not country of origin or residence. Until this changes then they will in their (own minds) have a justified reason to go on a killing spree.

The sooner that western MP's and Governments realise that appeasement and dhimmitude won't work the better.

13 August 2006 at 22:30  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

It is always faith first not country of origin or residence.

This is also true of Catholics!

They have managed to integrate into the UK.....just.

13 August 2006 at 22:52  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

My Lord Archbishop

Pardon my temerity on pursuing this matter further, Your Grace, but by late hero and mentor, Mr H. W. Fowler, has this to say: [The] misuse of infer for imply is sadly common -- so common that some dictionaries give imply as one of the definitions of infer without comment. But each word has its own job to do, one at the giving end and the other at the receiving (What do you imply by that remark? What am I to infer from that remark?) and should be left to do it without interference. (Modern English Usage).

Mr Fowler was a notable eccentric as well as an authority on English usage. When offered domestic assistance by the Clarendon Press (in order to hasten the completion of his work) he declined, claiming that not only did he enjoy housework, but it gave him an opportunity for thought. I believe he was particularly fond of cleaning drains, though this may well be a faulty memory on my part.

As to the nativity of Shakespeare, in 1564, my error is due entirely to my mental arithmetic, which is atrocious, and for which, Your Grace, I can offer only the humblest apologies, and remain,

As ever,

Your faithful correspondent

A. de T.

13 August 2006 at 23:04  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

If I may call you "Aubrey",
there are few things in this world that give the rest of us a bigger laugh than a pompous , pedantic tit falling on his face ,
even better, you did it twice (+:
I say this in good humour, and if you are lucky I may pass on my ginger flapjack recipe..

13 August 2006 at 23:17  
Anonymous Rick said...

You Grace I admire your commitment to The Oxford English Dictionary, I know you spent the last days of your life in that city of dreaming spires, and obviously formed an attachment to its publishing house

14 August 2006 at 06:39  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

MI Note: HTML attribute 'target' is not allowed by this Blogging service. So, for your convenience, please remember to always right-click on links and then select "Open in New Window." Otherwise, you will close your Cranmer blog window.

Recent British Foreign Policy - Islamicised?

On Turkey's application for EU membership, Jack Straw said.

On Jack Straw's pride at being a Dhimmi Cabinet Member in a quote "mainly Christian country" unquote: I am proud that the UK was the first mainly Christian country to send an annual official, government-backed delegation to the holy places, assisting British pilgrims undertaking Hajj.

Who in the world would write a 200-page memo about the importance of "safeguarding Iran's right to the peaceful use of nuclear technology"? The Ayatollah? Abbas in the Gaza Strip maybe? Here is the answer.

In 2005, the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPACUK) launched a campaign to defeat Jack Straw (MP for Blackburn, the town with 2,500 mosques) and Lorna Fitzsimmons, Labour MP for Rochdale.

Correct prophecy (re. Straw) by Andrew Gilligan, of the London Evening Standard.

On 27 March 2006, Dhimmi Jack Straw, whilst still Foreign Secretary delivered a speech at the Muslim News awards. Here is Melanie Phillips's analysis of his comments.

Jack Straw sacked as Foreign Secretary, because Condi Rice (and American administration) were shocked at the degree of political influence, Muslims enjoyed in Straw's own constituency.

A Nation inside our Nation: The Muslim Parliament of Britain.

It is vital more of you understand the arrogated status that has been made by Muslims in Britain. Any serious claim that a political constituency could be based upon a religious identity would be a serious enough challenge to our Parliamentary system. But, Muslims in Britain have gone one step further. They have actually initiated an alternative parliament! We don't yet know how significant this is, any fool can organize a website, but it is the arrogance behind such an act that is surely so informative.

Thus, the Muslim letter to our Prime Minister, titling this thread by His Grace Cranmer, is just a logical extension of the above, and more.

The Art of War? Know thy enemy!

14 August 2006 at 06:45  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

Dear Mr Foolery

Thank you for your good humoured comments. Your unfailing kindness is again duly noted, though might I say that I am by no means obese?

"Imply" and "infer" derive from the Latin, which, like Attic Greek, makes a suitable subject of study for those who would know the first thing about our English tongue.

My persona may be as pompous as that of Dr Johnson, sir, but that is the joke.

I am, and shall choose to remain,

Yours ever

A. de T.

P.S. The recipe is not for flapjacks, but biscuits. No doubt these days the terms are interchangeable. After all, what is the point of distinguishing the meanings of words?

14 August 2006 at 08:54  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Your Grace, in light of the recent terrorist plots, should we not be following the example of John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York, who announced that he was cancelling his holiday and would embark on a week of prayer and fasting inside York Minster. Perhaps a spot of self-flagellation would also cleanse the soul….although this would, of course, be far from practical in your case.

14 August 2006 at 09:09  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Writing in the News of the World yesterday, Lord Stevens, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner said airport security could be improved by more rigorous checks on "young Muslim men" at our airports ( a form of passenger profiling used very successfully at Israeli airports). Surely a perfectly rational initiative for “New Labour” to pick up and claim as its own in these dangerous times….not that they will be doing any such thing, of course. Ergo, we are governed by deluded PC-obsessed naifs who would sacrifice the greater good of the majority at the expense of ….well, you can see what I am implying/inferring etc,.

14 August 2006 at 10:36  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

gc ... I sympathize with your evident frustrations, but forgive me for pointing out a flaw in your thinking ... you are (it seems to me) missing the plot completely.

Stop trying to rationalize the motives of New Labour, and its legions of Social Science Degree holder acolytes. They are not rational. If they were, we would never have seen large scale illegal immigration. Much of the Humanities (in our Universities) were captured by hard-left ideologues two to three decades ago.

They are wedded to an ideology which is not political; it is instead "religious." They are fanatics. The whole left-liberal, Liberal-Marxist, reconstituted Communist -- call them what you will -- are beholden to a godless religion. Marxism (and its derivatives) is a religion. That is why they do what they do, and damn the consequences.

They work feverishly to create a utopia here on earth, where all will be made equal. All races equal. All cultures equal. All sexualities equal. All ideas equal. All people equal. It is a nightmare I know, but Britain is one of the laboratories that has been chosen for this "great project."

To destroy the Islamic threat, all we need do is destroy the Political (totalitarian) Left.

To make better progress, we need intelligent men like you to at least be clear about the basics, now!

14 August 2006 at 11:43  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr GC,

Indeed, indeed. Doubtless, it would be termed 'racist', and halted before it began.

Mr Aubrey de Tocquaine, LL.D

His Grace has now amended the wording of his original post, in order to end the increasingly contagious obsession with minutiae, and permit focused discussion on the matter at hand.

14 August 2006 at 11:45  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Dr Johnson on vegetables

"A cucumber should be well sliced, and dressed with pepper and vinegar, and then thrown out, as good for nothing."
A wise man indeed, although I believe biscuits were a mystery to him.

14 August 2006 at 12:24  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Mission impossible said
"...all we need do is destroy the Political (totalitarian) Left...."

How? With what means? Especially given that the left already controls the commanding heights of politics, the media, higher education....

14 August 2006 at 12:26  
Anonymous DavidG said...

I agree, with the totalitarian left having brainwashed everyone to a PC agenda, you have to use PC communication to destroy it. If you don't, you're just branded racist, right-wing, extremist, etc, and no-one listens to you. With the media hijacked, there's no viable strategy for destroying the PC left.

14 August 2006 at 12:37  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

davidg the pc left will destroy itself , unfortunatley it will destroy us with it.
Their ideas are nonsensensical and will lead to disaster, only then can will common sense prevail, untill it all hapens again.

14 August 2006 at 12:56  
Anonymous Rick said...

Unfortunately, in marked contrast to his predecessor Dr Hope, the Archbishop of York has a somewhat skewed political appreciation of matters which makes his public utterances as incredible as those of the BBC. His training as a lawyer has left him unprepared to utter the unvarnished truth, and under current circumstances his comments are mood music rather than informative.

14 August 2006 at 13:01  
Blogger Professor D.C. Warmington said...

My Lord Archbishop

"His Grace has now amended the wording of his original post, in order to end the increasingly contagious obsession with minutiae, and permit focused discussion on the matter at hand."

His Grace displays the wisdom of Solomon. I must learn to restrain my didactic tendencies and raise my eyes instead to loftier matters.

In gratitude, I am

Yours &c.

A. de T.

14 August 2006 at 13:40  
Blogger istanbultory said...

I am in full agreement with you regarding the Archbishop of york although to his credit he did express the following remarks to The Times last November before his enthronement:
“Multiculturalism has seemed to imply, wrongly for me, let other cultures be allowed to express themselves but do not let the majority culture at all tell us its glories, its struggles, its joys, its pains,” he said.

He said that the failure of England to rediscover its culture afresh would lead only to greater political extremism.

He disliked the word “tolerance” when used in reference, for example, to people of different cultures. “It seems to be the word tolerance is bad because it just means putting up with it,” he said. “I was raised in the spirit of magnanimity. That is a better word than tolerance. If you are magnanimous in your judgments on other people, there is a chance that I will recognise that you will help me in my struggle.”

Refreshingly sane thinking from the CoE. Rare as that may be in the current climate.....

14 August 2006 at 14:15  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

gc & davidg ... How to destroy the Left? Well, it helps to first understand what 'it' is made up of. We have been discussing these (i.e., its various components) in previous threads and posts. We will no doubt continue in that vein. There are increasing numbers of Blogs and websites all geared to destroying the Left, right across Europe, not just Britain. The EU (as we know it) may well become history if the momentum continues to grow.

With your increased knowledge, and awareness, and dare I say confidence; you should go out and make your arguments heard amongst your friends and family. Show them there is a viable alternative. Of course, there always was, but people have to lift up their heads to see it.

A good way to begin is wean your children (and wife) off the television. Myself, I have invested in a 32-inch TFT flat screen TV. Because presently, I am too far away from the UK to worry about Licence Fees, I pay a flat monthly for satellite broadcast. I could watch the usual trash if I wanted: CNN, BBC, MTV, but I don't. I am very choosy, and I make sure my lady is too. I get all my news from Internet sources. I also read foreign newspapers, etc.

Just ignore the British media. Let it die off by attrition. With the exception of two or three newspapers, take absolutely no notice of it. Don't let your daughters read subversive magazines such as Cosmopolitan, etc.

My Flat Screen TV can also receive radio broadcast through the broadband satellite connection, so because I have made the investment, I can listen to any of 15 radio stations in hi-fidelity sound. Some stations are very much to my taste. Furthermore, my TV can be connected to a computer, video camera, and other video/audio kit, so by installing a special video card in my PC, I can use the TV unit as a huge monitor. Therefore, I have not wasted my money, even if I don't watch TV channels. You could do the same. Get away from leftwing propaganda without denying yourself the pleasure of a TV.

Follow aubrey de tocquaine, ll.d's excellent advice (posted in earlier thread) on how to legally avoid paying your BBC Licence Fee.

You could also visit the websites of those political parties that seek to defend British identity against the corrosion instigated by those Internationalists embedded in New Labour, and the BBC, etc. These fast emerging parties really need the support of ordinary folks. The more they get, the sooner the nightmare will end. It looks as though the Conservative Party will never be willing to take that chance, by moving to the Centre-Right, instead of lingering in the mushy, Centre-Left. They do so because they fear losing the female vote.

You should realize, it is the votes of women that is largely responsible for putting us into this Marxist hell. There have been several articles (and Stats) showing this to be the case.

Get involved with one or two of those "other" non-traditional parties, e.g., UKIP or BNP. Put your money where your mouths are. You are men. So act like men. Take control and stop being so bl**dy passive and fatalistic.

Read books on manhood. Reject the feminist (left-wing) definitions of manhood. Seek out role models from those days before the madness started (pre-1970s). Don't be embarrassed. The past is full of wisdom and honour. That is what you want to find; reject the metrosexual garbage that is being used to control and manipulate you.

Reject Hollywood (full of gays, feminists, and communists anyway) movies. Watch more Asian movies (I can tell you, there are some absolutely wonderful movies, made in South Korea, available, that would keep you happy for months. You can find/order them online). Subtitled yes, but at least the women don't look like they've aged well before their time.

Yes, you will probably be called fascists, and a lot worse. But, when did someone calling you names ever stop you from following your instincts? The real fascists are of course those on the hard left. Their minds have been sickened or warped by an irrational political philosophy that requires endless lying to sustain it. Don't forget these truths.

I have visited all those websites that are most strongly opposed to New Labour policies, and I can tell you I see very little evidence of extremism, even less of fascism. If you want an example of a real fascist (sinister) organisation, then pay a visit to this insane, Leninist outfit: This organization has links to New Labour, and is dedicated to putting people who are leading the BNP in court, and if they succeed, in prison. They have also coordinated sting operations with BBC "hidden camera" teams. But, they have not succeeded.

The BNP is strong, and growing. To equate it with the National Front would be to cower in the face of irrational hatred stoked by Far-Left propaganda. They have rejected the skin-head approach. That philosophy died with the death of its previous leader. I am not a member, but I have read many impressive articles written by contributors to its website. I also read articles in the Guardian. But, I would suggest, the Guardian is more often than not, more intransigent than the BNP, and also a lot more ideological.

Take legal advice and know your rights. Go to the library and read a book on basic English law. Download legal stuff and advice from websites. Use Google.

Once the Left starts to fall, its deflation will soon turn into a collapse. Don't worry.

This isn't a one month or one year project. It may take until 2010. But, sooner or later, we will get our country back. I still have family in England, and I can't stay overseas forever. I was forced by circumstance to follow my destiny by travelling far and wide, over 25 years ago. I have spent many periods in the interim living/working in England, but travel gets into your blood. Anyway, I want to return to something that at least resembles what England conjures up in most foreigner's minds. The world needs an England (not just the English). I can assure you, what they think is far more flattering than what might first spring to your minds.

Don't get despondent. Nothing worthwhile was ever easy. We will succeed.

14 August 2006 at 14:50  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Mission impossible, yet again a posting filled with common sense,
May I recommend a few internet news sites to you and others?
Apologies to your Grace , a good all round non leftist read, has some wacky stuff such as cryptozoology and ufo stories for entertainment, however, plenty of meat. conspiracy theories, or rather just one subject, the fact that we are being lined up for slavery to a global elite who use political correctness and false flag terror operations to control us. published by a Canadian university lecturer who sees feminism as a marxist creation
If any of you take the trouble to look at any of these sites i hope you enjoy them, they are not hate sites.

14 August 2006 at 15:56  
Anonymous Rick said...

A good way to begin is wean your children (and wife) off the television

I have heard that can be done - the children are easier to part from soma I understand.

As for the Left you might remember Lenin's famous comment - “Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push.”

Noone is prepared to say "No" and so the boundaries are moved. I append by way of interest a commentary I found when looking up this quotation - it might be of some interest:

14 August 2006 at 16:08  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Thank you Mr. phonecam foolery for the websites to which you kindly referred.
I have already glanced at a worthy cause, if ever there was one. Given the radical leftism prevailing in most of academia, I am astonished that Henry Makow hasn't been summarily executed by the legions of feminazis to be found in Canadian universities.

Your Grace, on a more pressing issue-whatever has happened to visitations to chez. Cranmer from the illustrious likes of Mr. ulsterman and Mr. Croydonian? I am saddened by their increasingly low profile in these parts. To say nothing of the much lamented Mr. Al-Amin who, of course, may have been distracted by the need to assist various law enforcement agencies with their enquiries....

14 August 2006 at 16:55  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr GC,

Mr Ulster Man has already contributed to this thread. Mr Al-Amin left some time ago, I suspect feeling more than a little victimsed. Mr Croydonian informed his colleagues that 'blogging would be light over the next few days', without providing the cause of such rationing, though, granted, this is no-one's business but Mr Croydonian's.

One must, I suppose, be aware that August in the UK is the holiday season.

It is, however, more than a little puzzling that, of the 300 or so daily hits that Cranmer gets, from all over the world, many of these viewing numerous pages for upwards of 30 minutes, that more do not engage with the material and contribute. It may be, however, that they are lacking either intelligence or erudition, and are simply inhibited by the manifest expressions of higher learning that are to be found here.

14 August 2006 at 17:07  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Cranmere said
It is, however, more than a little puzzling that, of the 300 or so daily hits that Cranmer gets,... more do not engage with the material and contribute. It may be, however, that they are lacking either intelligence or erudition, and are simply inhibited by the manifest expressions of higher learning that are to be found here.

Your Grace,
We, the enlightened minority, plough a lonely furrow of erudition chez. Cranmer...

14 August 2006 at 17:16  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

The Pope and Rome are more my thing, GC, and I don't know much about Islam. I'm waiting for His Grace's next insights into the machinations of Rome, which here in the provinces are a little more pressing. Just not that many Muslims in Ulster!

It's nice to be remembered though, and missed!!!

14 August 2006 at 17:31  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Croydonian is visiting Geneva for a few days , he is part gnome on his fathers side.

14 August 2006 at 17:41  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Mr. Ulsterman,

Thank you. I salute your devotion to the anti-papist cause and the exposition of Rome's foul misdeeds. Alas, I note with some alarm, that the Mohammedan has alighted on the fair shores of Ulster too. There are 5,000 Muslims, from 40 countries, in Ulster at present. By all accounts, there's quite a crowd at Belfast mosque for Friday prayers...

14 August 2006 at 19:33  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

5000 isn't that noticeable, really! They must be spread thinly. If Cranmer is right with his 1.6 million in the UK, you'll appreciate that a mere 5000 in Ulster means we're not their first port of call! So yes, a few mosques, with a few machinations, but nowhere near as problematic as the interference of Rome!!

14 August 2006 at 19:50  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Ulster Man said...
"'ll appreciate that a mere 5000 in Ulster means we're not their first port of call!"

Doubtless, their numbers will those of the fenian.

14 August 2006 at 19:55  
Anonymous SE said...

In no way am I as erudite as other previous posters, but I wish the Bishop of Rochesters' whiskers extended right round his chin, all the way to Canterbury.

15 August 2006 at 00:58  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

It is, however, more than a little puzzling that, of the 300 or so daily hits that Cranmer gets, from all over the world, many of these viewing numerous pages for upwards of 30 minutes, that more do not engage with the material and contribute.

I'll offer this rumination for what it's worth.

A proportion of these will be Journalists. As we know, the world is (too) full of them, and at least 75% are as "thick as two bricks:" 3rd rate students without the talent to find a real vocation -- in common with the ubiquitous Social Science Degree holders. So, these days, we have journalists scouring Blogs looking for ideas and inspiration. At a wild guess, I'd say at least 10% of blog page visitors are such.

15 August 2006 at 03:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace,

I listed this comment on Armchair Activist, I hope you don't mind me posting it here

...I have always found Muslims a very polite, likable and generous people.

In fact, I have been very good friends with a very 'moderate' believer for about 25 years. I found it hard to maintain this close relationship when it became increasingly difficult to deal with his deep hatred and rantings towards Jews, homosexuals etc and arranged marriages of his children with relatives in Pakistan. It also became obvious to me, that when he was involved in organising local protests to remove pimps and prostitutes from his neighbourhood, it was a device to bring and enforce Sharia Law on the streets.

As a sad footnote to all this, I was shocked by the conversations of WW2 War Veterans and widows at a ceremony last weekend. There were no 'racist' comments, just a general resignation that their grandchildren will be wearing veils in a few years time. I have never heard this sort of sentiment before from such a group as this.

My father died 12 years ago, contantly tortured by the memories of fighting a horrific war for his country. My uncle, a Wingate Chindit, run through with a samurai sword while fighting hand to hand in Burma - never seeing his beloved Blighty again. They certainly didn't fight for this but I'm glad that they are not alive to witness it. The only problem is how I'm going to face them, should we meet again.

15 August 2006 at 05:26  
Anonymous Rick said...

SE that is something for which we should castigate Anthony Blair - it was he who found the Church of Wales Christian Socialist Rowan Williams...........a man who had been blocked from Southwark by Carey; and if you examine the musical chairs of trying to put Jeffrey John from Southwark into his job as Bishop of Wales, you will see the mafia at work.

For Jeffrey John did not get Wales - the Bishop of Reading did and hgis vacant Suffragan role was offered to Jeffrey John. Failure here led to Downing Street trying to get him in as Dean in Norwich, then successfully at St Albans.

15 August 2006 at 06:33  
Anonymous Rick said...

Anonymous (you have a lot of aliases) - it is not the future your WWII veterans despair of but the political class. They would not feel that way if Thatcher were in charge, yet much of the groundwork for mosque expansion, saudi money and influence, was laid during her tenure in Downing Street when money became the god and those France spewed forth were brought into safety to form Londonistan.

15 August 2006 at 06:36  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

Anonymous 5:26AM... regarding your ex-friendship with a Muslim.

Here is an extract from a testimony given by an Islamic Apostate named Azam Kamguian (an Iranian woman). You will find it published in the book: Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out, edited by Ibn Warraq.


She also points to the role of left-wing multiculturalists in enabling this anti-woman agenda, which subjected many (including the author herself) to imprisonment and torture:

"When I came to the West in the early 1990s, I was faced with the fact that the majority of intellectuals, mainstream media, academics, and feminists, in the name of respecting ‘other cultures,’ were trying to justify Islam by dividing it into fundamentalist and moderate, progressive and reactionary, Medina’s and Mecca’s, Muhammad’s and Kholafa’s, folksy and nonfolksy. For people like me, the victims of Islam in power, it was suffocating to listen to and to have to refute endless tales to justify the terror and bloodshed committed by Islamic movements and Islamic governments in Iran and in the region."


Dr. Habira has been conducting empirical and theoretical research in Islam and terrorism for more than three decades. I have already quoted some of his (other) words under another thread in this Cranmer Blog:

Quote: The so-called moderate Muslims leave the violent basis of Islam unchallenged for the terrorist to implement, while they present the ritualistic side to the world and thereby deceive it. Endquote.

15 August 2006 at 07:25  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Mr. Impossible,
Sir, as always, you have in your infinite wisdom alluded to the likely visitation of the jounalistic species to this venerable blog. You are right to suggest as much....
Guido's place (amongst a multitude of others) is perpetually under siege from journos in search of a bit of easy plagiarising.What with its increasing popularity I suspect that Chez. Cranmer will befall a similar fate.

15 August 2006 at 07:57  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Mission impossible,
An excellent posting on the feminists and Islam. It is apparently the case that four out of every five Western converts to Islam are women. ( Indeed, in the United States, women converts outnumber men by four to one, and in Britain make up the bulk of the estimated 10, 000 to 20, 000 converts forming part of a Muslim community of 1 to 1.5 million The Times 9/11/1993.

A sympathetic article in (naturally enough) The Guardian of December 8th 2001 “Can Islam liberate women?” suggests “….It is true that there is plenty of material in the Koran that is more egalitarian than the western Christian tradition, which was heavily influenced by the misogyny of Greek thought. Perhaps the most fundamental is that the Islamic God does not have a gender…”. And so it goes on. If you wish to read the rest (and it is fairly bleak reading) go to,4273,4314573,00.html

Yet those of us who have the dubious pleasure of corresponding from the Islamic world know that the reality is somewhat different to the idea that Islam is a liberating force for women. One award-winning Algerian writer (and Muslim) poses the following question that the potential female convert to Islam might wish to reflect upon: “The human rights of ordinary Algerians, and in particular Algerian women, are under siege. Crimes against human dignity occur every day, with women the targets of much of the violence…Therefore, one must ask where the self-proclaimed Islamists find their program for society, in which women are made subservient under the law and which bases its future upon the corpses of women” The suffering of Algeria's women at the hands of Islamists by Aicha Lemsine Middle East Times, Cairo, March 16, 2001

Ladies, I cite directly from the Hadith (the words and deeds of Mohammed):

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
“Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

And from the Quran:
"As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them, but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, God is Ever Most High, Most Great." (4:34)

Potential converts,
Think again!!

15 August 2006 at 08:42  
Anonymous Rick said...

.It is true that there is plenty of material in the Koran that is more egalitarian than the western Christian tradition

Is there ? I do not read Arabic so I shall take your word for it. Funny that Saudi Arabia is unable to practise this and yet it is not a complaint made by Bin Laden et al, that in this respect Saudi Arabia is un-Islamic, I have never heard Saudi treatment of women described as un-Islamic.

The 1936 Constitution of the USSR was much more democratic than that of the United States in both content and form, yet somehow it never seemed that the USSR developed civil society in the same manner as the United States being somewhat more prone to adhere to Lenin's dictum: "Liberty is precious, therefore it must be rationed"

I do not know whether Muslim women have the freedom to convert to Christianity or Judaism to coordinate with their husbands, but somehow I doubt it.

I have similarly been bemused by those who tell me that Real Existing socialism as practised across Europe and China was merely "Stalinism" and next time it will be different......................likewise I wonder about "Nazism with a Human Face" and whether Hitler and Himmler were the aberration whose absence will encourage people to embrace this social experiment once more.

The capacity for self-delusion is seemingly infinite. Best to trust in God, Man is such a disappointment

15 August 2006 at 08:59  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Rick said
"I do not know whether Muslim women have the freedom to convert to Christianity or Judaism to coordinate with their husbands..."

No chance whatsoever.

15 August 2006 at 09:11  
Blogger istanbultory said...

A young woman's voice from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia- the heart of Islamic darkness......

15 August 2006 at 09:21  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

A lot of the institutionalized misogyny expressed by Arab societies towards their womenfolk has less to do with Islam and a lot more to do with tribal traditions. Ever seen an Indonesian (Muslim) girl wearing a mini-skirt? -- I have and some can look mind-numbingly fantastic.

You don't need a gendered, or genderless God to see the natural difference between men and women.

Many Buddhist / Confusian (Oriental) societies (if not all) place women No.2 and men No.1, but that doesn't give men licence to abuse women. Far from it, I see relative peace, harmony, and understanding between the sexes outside of the Christian and Islamic world. Women know their place, and they don't seek to humiliate the male gender: a day's work in the life of most English girls.

The only exception in the region is the Philippines, where the Filipina is commonly called "the Man of Asia." The ardently Roman Catholic Philippines looks and behaves more like a matriarchal society, which is why (presumably) it is an economic and social basket case.

Personally, I think attempts to belittle Islam over its perceived misogyny is an unprofitable diversion. All one needs to do is understand the life of Mohammed and his gang of murderers, and that is enough. The franchise of Allah sponsored pillage across four continents was then passed through the generations starting with the 8th Century AD.

Moroccon women are Muslim, yet they have, until recently, been quite free to express their sexuality in a more natural manner. They were commonly found as prostitutes in the hotels of Bahrain and Dubai.

Prior to the first Gulf War, Iraqi women were renowned for the eroticism of their dancing. Fortunately, I have seen one dance. Raven haired, in a long, figure-hugging black dress, she remained fully clothed yet her sexuality came across more powerfully than any silly white girl gyrating around a pole.

Moral of the story? Don't mix up your agendas; it's confusing.

15 August 2006 at 09:43  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Mission impossible,
Moral of the story- one woman is free to dress and behave as stupidly as she wishes while one woman is covered in the hijab as demanded by Islamic law and tradition regardless of her own wishes.....

15 August 2006 at 10:41  
Anonymous Rick said...

You don't need a gendered, or genderless God to see the natural difference between men and women.

God of Jews and Christians is Infinite so cannot be bounded by gender - however Al-Lah has a mate called Al-Lat who is female.

15 August 2006 at 11:24  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

gc ... sorry ... the statement: is covered in the hijab as demanded by Islamic law is factually incorrect.

Islamic law only requires a woman to dress modestly, and not deliberately attract attention to herself. There is absolutely no formal requirement for wearing a hijab or burqa, etc.

Throughout most of her life, my Mother (who is English and Christian) has worn a headscarf in public, except when with my Father.

The Purdah (segregation) system is neither of Islamic nor Arabian origin. It is of Zoroastrian Persian, and Christian Byzantine origin. It has little to do with the religion of Islam, and, for practical reasons, it has never been adopted by the great majority of Muslim women....The Purdah system is not a part of Islamic law. It is a custom of the Court introduced after the Khilafat had degenerated under Persian and Byzantine influences, and had thus become an expression of Oriental despotism.

Hope that clears it up.

15 August 2006 at 11:28  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

Rick thank you for that,
I always thought that Christians shared the same god with Muslims, just another example of the falsehods spread by the touchy feely inclusive crowd.
This blog has taught me more about religion than I ever learnt in RE at school, many thanks.

15 August 2006 at 11:35  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

No, there is no 'gendered' Allah.

Correction ... Allat (Al-Lat) is the ancient mother and fertility goddess of the pre-Islamic Arabs. Her name means 'the Goddess'.

Remember, Arabic, like French, is gendered. Arabic words ending in '-at' denote the feminine.

Allat is a mythic figure of great antiquity; she is one (representing the earth and its fruits) of the trinity of desert goddesses named in the Qur'an; Al-Uzza (goddess of the morning star) and Menat (goddess of fate and time) being the other two.

Allat is mentioned in the Qur'an (Sura 53:20)

15 August 2006 at 11:41  
Anonymous Rick said...

Yes but if you refer to the Satanic Verses the one Muslims try to disown

15 August 2006 at 11:50  
Anonymous Rick said...

15 August 2006 at 13:04  
Anonymous Colin said...

My apologies for joining this discussion at such a late stage, but I’m in the process of moving house and so I haven’t had nearly as much free time as I’d like. I read an article in The Times last year by Kenan Malik, written just after the July bombings, which I think is pertinent. If I may be so bold as to quote at length:

“Partly because, in this post-ideological age, the idea that we can change society through politics has taken a battering. And partly because the idea that we should aspire to a common identity and a set of values has been eroded in the name of multiculturalism.

Over the past week, much has been said about the strength of London as a multicultural city. What makes London great, Ken Livingstone pointed out, was what the bombers most fear -a city full of people from across the globe, free to pursue their own lives. I agree, and that's why I choose to live in this city. Multiculturalism as a lived experience enriches our lives. But multiculturalism as a political ideology has helped to create a tribal Britain with no political or moral centre. For an earlier generation of Muslims their religion was not so strong that it prevented them from identifying with Britain. Today many young British Muslims identify more with Islam than Britain primarily because there no longer seems much that is compelling about being British. Of course, there is little to romanticise about in old-style Britishness with its often racist vision of belonging. Back in the 1950s policy-makers feared that, in the words of a Colonial Office report, "a large coloured community would weaken...the concept of England or Britain".

That old racist notion of identity has thankfully crumbled. But nothing new has come to replace it. The very notion of creating common values has been abandoned except at a most minimal level. Britishness has come to be defined simply as a toleration of difference. The politics of ideology has given way to the politics of identity, creating a more fragmented Britain, and one where many groups assert their identity through a sense of victimhood and grievance.

This has been particularly true of Muslim communities. Muslims have certainly suffered from racism and discrimination. But many Muslim leaders have nurtured an exaggerated sense of victimhood for their own political purposes. The result has been to stoke up anger and resentment, creating a siege mentality that makes Muslim communities more inward-looking and more open to religious extremism and that has helped to transform a small number of young men into savage terrorists.”

I found these to be rather powerful and insightful thoughts, and much better than anything I could offer, so I hope they add something to the discussion.

15 August 2006 at 15:39  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

Colin, I would suggest these insightful thoughts are nothing more than the ramblings of someone who aspires to be an intellectual, but isn't quite up to it. Malik offers nothing in terms of solutions; all he has written is a series of observations, tainted with a degree of (predictably) left-wing ideology.

These allegedly insightful thoughts damn themselves by quoting this: "Back in the 1950s policy-makers feared that, in the words of a Colonial Office report, "a large coloured community would weaken...the concept of England or Britain."

Indeed that is exactly what a large coloured community has done to England and Britain. The prediction has come to fruition. Common sense really.

Nobody voted in favour of mass immigration. It was thrust upon the indigenous community by an elite clique. Perhaps the Gay Community fancied a "bit of Black" to render exotic, their boozy weekends.

The brave men of the British armed forces did not lay down their lives just so Cultural-Marxists and Communist Internationalists could invite members of incompatible cultures into our towns and cities for their own dogma-laden amusement.

As for the rather contrived Islamic connection, it has some relevance, but nevertheless is largely irrelevant. It's just another attempt to excuse bad Muslim behaviour. It completely ignores how events have actually unfolded. Kenan Malik evidently hasn't got a clue what he is talking about when it comes to assessing the true nature of Mohammed's Cult. Either that, or he has deliberately set out to obfuscate.

As for that communist egotist, Ken Livingstone, the sooner he 'meets his maker' the better for mankind, let alone London.

I do hope you will continue to make contributions to this Blog, but be prepared for robust responses when you post drivel.

P.S. I take strong exception to this Marxist statement: Of course, there is little to romanticise about in old-style Britishness with its often racist vision of belonging. Total poppycock! Go to hell!

15 August 2006 at 16:41  
Blogger phone cam foolery said...

there is little to romanticise about in old-style Britishness with its often racist vision of belonging
So why exactly did they all come here if we didnt have a society that was worth preserving?
The only solution is mass deportations, even for those of other races born here, well there is another solution,however, most would think it a little out of date.

15 August 2006 at 16:47  
Anonymous Colin said...

The point that I took away from the article was that what's needed is a recapturing of what it is to be British. While you may think the article is drivel, and perhaps it is, I think the central idea is sound. If the citizens of Britain have no discernable bond, nothing to bind them together, if they have no reason to be proud to call themselves British, then the seeds of future strife will continue to be sown. There will continue to be a "them and us" mentality. In the days of the Empire there was a discernable bond - whether in England or Australia one could identify oneself as part of the Empire, part of something larger than oneself. In Britain today there seems to be no desire to identify oneself as British. It seems to me, at least, that if a patriotic love of one's country had been established amongst those who went on to carry out the atrocities in July last year, and amongst those who attempted further atrocities more recently, then these things may never have come to pass. That was the point I was trying to make, albeit not too clearly.

15 August 2006 at 16:56  
Anonymous Rick said...

Maybe we should rally to Cranmer and return to that sense of Englishness embodied in Edward VI and the Prayer Book. Then we can decide whether to veer towards Calvinism or put our trust in Bishops.

The warp of English history is bound up with The Reformation and the Church of England as was - not is. The shell has survived but the substance is gone, the residual is in The 1662 Prayer Book and the essence of the Elizabethan Settlement.

The Tudors and the Victorians built England and Cromwell is as good a figurehead as any. Maybe the thing is to opt out of the Fake Identity of today and coalesce around the English Identity of the Civil War and Restoration era.

In short establish parameters for yourself and dissociate from the Rainbow Coalition of today

15 August 2006 at 17:03  
Anonymous greenham woman said...

May I recommend paganism to anyone? You can make it all up yourself. Chose the gender of the god/s you wish as Guide. For example, whenever I can't find a parking space I pray to Rita (Goddess of Parking Meters). It works every time.

2 September 2006 at 14:06  
Anonymous agatha said...

is dis site for conservatice prats. u guys are narrow minded an snobbish. yeh britains foreign policy scks. war in iraq against pundits. comin britain wouldnt giv a toss if the congo invaded rwanda. it gotta do wid oil. u may be thinkin yawn but its true. they couldve gotten rid of sadaam ages b4 kuwait stuff. but they kept him there coz he was listenin to america. killin ppl, doesnt matter to america as long as u obey the roman wannabees. u guys shud be open minded. this letter frm muslim council, the muslim council sucks. they dont speak 4 muslims. u shud go to talk to intellectual muslims, try oxbridge, muslims there are very clever. i recommend that u guys read the works of chomsky. that will make u realise that the sun doesnt shine out of americas arse. i may be 80 yrs old but i kno my politics

12 September 2006 at 21:06  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older