Tuesday, November 07, 2006

Canterbury and Rome unite against secularism

After five centuries of schism with Rome, and a subsequent congenital predisposition to compromise, the Church of England has at last discovered a campaign which not only re-unites it with the Mother Church, but also around which its fracturing communicants may sing from the same hymn sheet. Yes, in a world of religious unrest, spiritual poverty, and theological turmoil, the churches of Rome and England have decided to set aside their ecclesiological and soteriological differences and unite to challenge the Royal Mail's decision to issue festive stamps without a Christian theme.

We have Santa, a snowman, a reindeer and a fir tree – all thoroughly good, religiously-neutral, politically-correct symbols of Winterval. The one-time pagan celebration of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti has come full circle, and the post-Christian era is well and truly upon us. The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster are challenging this with the release of a new think-tank report which confronts the secularist agenda to excise Christ out of Christmas. They would have preferred Christian-themed stamps to remind people of the true meaning of Christmas, but images of Jesus, Mary, Joseph, kings, shepherds, stars, stables and mangers are all deemed a little too overt for a modern, multi-faith Britain. After all, what right does Royal Mail have to inflict gospel imagery upon the doormats of the Mohammedans? No, they must be free to celebrate the true meaning of Eid; the Sikhs and Hindus the real meaning of Diwali, but God forbid that Christians should insist on cultural expressions of the real message of Christmas.

Yet in an era in which all paths are supposed to lead to God, and in which sin has been relativised beyond rational definition, why would one need to celebrate the birth of a saviour at all?


Blogger pvnam_3 said...

«««««« mini------spam»»»»»»
--- Don't be Idiots!!!
--- The way to go... it isn't 'lick-the-boots' to the Majority of the Europeans!
--- The way to go... it is 'make war' against the White Parasite... i.e., the ETHNIC SEPARATISM:
(... before being too late...)
-1- a space (50%) of Total Competition (i.e., a globalisation space);
-2- another space (50%) of Natural Reserve: for the preservation of Natives Ethnic Identity.
{ see: 50-separatism-50 }

NOTE 1: The Space of Total Competition (50%)... will be for the Europeans (the majority: i.e., White Parasite)... that... want to be in the Parasite-Enjoy ... i.e.:
-1- they claim to enjoy immigrant servile labour at 'price of rain';
-2- they claim to enjoy the existence of persons to pay the retirement pension [ in spite of... they doesn't make a Society where exist Demographic Renewal!!! ]

NOTE 2: The Space of Natural Reserve (50%)... will be for the Europeans (a minority)... whom they intend to be in the Planet - with dignity, courage and determination - fighting for the Survival of his Ethnic Identity.

7 November 2006 at 23:27  
Anonymous Voyager said...

I suppose Australia will have traditional Christmas stamps.


Then again I tend to agree with Oliver Cromwell that Christmas should be abolished. It is so overblown with Chinese snowmen and other baubles that is has lost the simplicity of poverty and been replaced by the opulence of excess

The Royal Mail is another institution without roots and denying its heritage, the BBC will show no real Christmas programming - but if you watch German TV the coverage will be religious, and even folk-oriented in Austrian villages and rural settings. The more you look elsewhere the more Britain appears to be a run down sovietised society with the grey charm of Voronezh or other Soviet cities with the New Year Tree and Dyadya Moroz.

I don't think people yet realise how hollowed out the culture is but they sense it, it is so much like the GDR or USSR that it is uncanny how the sparkle has been extinguished from life to leave widespread depression and inertia

8 November 2006 at 08:52  
Anonymous Odessa Calling said...


Well said and so true. The seculization of society is sucking
the life out of everthing.

We are now in a spritual winter, but hey, spring will follow, so don't get downheated.

8 November 2006 at 10:18  
Anonymous vikki said...

What is to be done about baal worship?

8 November 2006 at 10:31  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

This pvnam_3 character seems to be in need of medical intervention.

Tell me pvnam_3, how long have you you been having these episodes and how often?
I am a Doctor and may be able to help.

8 November 2006 at 11:05  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

Is Peter Hitchens a doctor? I thought you really were Peter Hitchens!

Agree that pvnam_3 needs medical attention. His post doesn't seem to meet Cranmer's ruling on erudition, though his blog is bit more eloquent (I said 'bit').

Christmas stamps, or should I say Xmas stamps, are a relatively recent phenomenon. I'm not bothered by pagan stamps. Most of the Papist expressions of religiosity are pagan any way, and the pagans owned the festival before the Papists got hold of it.

8 November 2006 at 16:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pagans owned the festival before the Papists got hold of it.

Wait until the Eid stamps come out

8 November 2006 at 16:47  
Anonymous lala said...

I quite like them, cos I like Christmas, and they're all Chrismassy!

Merry Christmas Cranmer, YOU OLD SCROOGE!!!!!

8 November 2006 at 18:33  
Anonymous Colin said...


You are right. That's why pvnam_3 said - after forgetting to take his risperdone - on his blog: GANGSTERISH PEOPLES .. doesn't accept the existence of Natural Reserves for the Native Peoples...


"What is to be done about baal worship?"

Send them to Peter Hitchens for treatment?

8 November 2006 at 19:43  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

I wanted to make a smutty joke about "baal worship" however , as we are very near to christmas I decided against it, also it would probably have caused his grace to choke on his sherry and mince pie.
But thanks for lowering the tone (+;

8 November 2006 at 22:11  
Anonymous Colin said...


I am sorry to hear that I seem to have missed a good choke, sorry, joke. I apologize for my poor English. I naturally meant joke.

Well, I guess that we all have to bring sacrifices. To bring sacrifices to His Grace's blog is a duty as well as a pleasure for me. Fortunately, in the times of the internet, "Prayer has taken the place of sacrifices in Jewish practice. Hosea 14:3 reads, "Take with you words, and turn to the Lord. Say to Him, forgive all iniquity and receive us graciously, so we will offer the words of our lips instead of calves."

8 November 2006 at 23:03  
Blogger Peter Hitchens said...

Not sure about that colin, words or cold hard goods/cash?
If I were God I would prefer the goods even though being God they would I suppose be my goods anyway, as a deity I would prefer the commitment of a nice bung rather than some pious words.
Maybe I am hobbled by my material view of this life, perhaps his grace could intervene?

8 November 2006 at 23:22  
Blogger Evil of Dron said...

The designer of these stamps has a sentimental attachment to snow, which given global warning and the failure of the elements to give us a really snowy winter, I concur.

I don't think the Post Office has a remit to indulge Christians in their faith, or any other faith. The stamp is merely a token of payment; above that it can only be of interest to boring people who collect used ones.

Have a thought also, at this time, for the many dyslexic devil-worshippers who might apply for what they believe is a temporary position at their local shopping mall for "Satan's Little Helper"

8 November 2006 at 23:56  
Anonymous Colin said...


To my recollection, His Grace said that he demands "erudite contributions. The banal and intelligent belong elsewhere."

In regard to erudition, Wikipedia tells us that your material view of life was shared by ancient priests: "A Korban was usually an animal sacrifice, such as a sheep or a bull that was ritually slaughtered, and (usually) cooked and eaten by the offerer, with parts given to the Kohanim (priests) and parts burned on an altar. Korbanot could also consist of turtle-doves or pigeons, grain, incense, fruit, and a variety of other offerings. The Hebrew Bible narrates that the God of Israel commanded the Children of Israel to offer korbanot up on various altars",

"God is a pernicious delusion", claims incorrectly an erudite British scientist, Richard Dawkins, in his latest book. And a Belgian reader misinformed others on Amazon by stating: After burying the Christian arguments for the existence of God, he unmasks creationism's new logo `Intelligent Design' as filling illusory and temporarily scientific gaps with God. He exposes the profound Phariseism of the Christian Right (The American Taliban) as `stalwart defenders of human life, as long as it is embryonic.' The use of Holy Scriptures as a source for absolute morality is truly amazing. The God of the Old Testament is guilty of genocides, while the New Testament imprints with hot iron `original sin' on every new born baby on this planet. He agrees in no way with certain moralists that we need religion and God to force people to be and to do good. Here he quotes A. Einstein: 'If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot, indeed.'

Obviously, secularists such as Dawkins are worse than baal worshipers.

9 November 2006 at 00:23  
Anonymous Voyager said...

The stamp is merely a token of payment; above that it can only be of interest to boring

Not so - it is the second most lucrative business after banknotes which are themselves Govt Debt.

Getting the public to pre-pay for a Stamp front-loads the cashflow of the Royal Mail. The Govt issues paper with a promise To Pay The Bearer on Demand and this is effectively an interest-free loan from the public to the Govt - just as postage stamps are an interest-free deposit

9 November 2006 at 07:36  
Blogger Cranmer said...

At last, this thread begins to express erudition with glimmers of intelligence...

Welcome Mr Evil of Dron to His Grace's august blog. The issue is one of thematic stamps which purposely exclude expressions of the culture of the majority. That decision itself indulges the secularists.

9 November 2006 at 07:47  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

And 'secularism' isn't religiously neutral.

9 November 2006 at 11:04  
Anonymous vikki said...

Colin, baal worship is endemic.......this is beyond Dr Hitchens...

9 November 2006 at 19:46  
Anonymous Colin said...


"baal worship is endemic.......this is beyond Dr Hitchens... "

True, too true.

Maybe "glimmers of intelligence..." will burst into full blaze by His Grace's renowned words of wisdom. He is my final and only hope in this matter.

9 November 2006 at 21:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me first confess that I am, at best, an agnostic - so that you may judge my comments by that yardstick [i.e. feel free to ignore them].

I do appreciate and have a great deal of sympathy with your view on secularism. But as an 'outsider' I do think the pendulum is swinging back in your direction. The facile re-branding of Christmas as the 'Winterval' happened several years ago in Birmingham, but has not [to my knowledge] caught on.

Indeed, other religions, such as the Moslems, are against taking away the spiritual aspect of Christmas. That said, I appreciate that goverment cards are alleged to contain 'Seasons Greetings'. I do think that, however, is at least preferable to the abysmsal American 'Happy Holidays'. [ugh]

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom - but I do think the Post Office should get the benefit of the doubt that they alternate the designs on stamps between secular and religious designs. Just as we should give them the benefit of the doubt about deciding the size of the sub-post office network.

[I will refrain from making a lame analogy featuring King Herod, as I would not wish to cause offence..]

14 November 2006 at 21:44  
Anonymous Seattleite said...

And the Post Office has alternated between religious and secular symbolism on its Christmas stamps every year for the last 40 - so scarcely news, sign of multi-culturalism taking over or any of the rest of these paranoid rants. Still don't let facts get in the way of your amusing little echo-chamber chaps.

15 November 2006 at 03:57  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Run along, Mr Seattleite, and amuse yourself elsewhere.

You are clearly of deficient intellect and incapable of grasping the issues.

15 November 2006 at 19:40  
Anonymous Seattleite said...

About what I expected. When faced with inconvenient -erm - facts - which challenge your hypothesis you refuse to engage with the evidence in front of you and resort to childish abuse. Kind of what you accuse your opponents of doing.

I would have thought that someone who makes a great play about his chrstianity would have some concern for the truth of a situation, but apparently not.

For your information my intellect is sufficiently deficient to make me an internationally awarded scholar. But hey I don't fawn on your every word without checking your facts so clearly I'm an idiot.

16 November 2006 at 00:16  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Seatlleite,

His Grace doubts that you had any expectations at all, and if you had, by what right?

This blog is His Grace's private property, and communicants are welcome provided their contributions are intelligent and erudite. Yours are neither. They constitute a puerile game of one-upmanship. The 'facts' are not as you perceive, and the substantive purpose of the post was the increasing threat of secularism.

His Grace finds your necessity to boast about your scholarship tedious, and such assertions invariably emanate from insecurity. With what is His Grace supposed to respond? A list of his qualifications? Will this somehow make him 'more right', or his perceptions of 'facts' more absolute?

You are exhorted to either engage with the substance or play elsewhere. If neither is possible, His Grace will simply delete you.

16 November 2006 at 13:52  
Anonymous seattleite said...

My expectations were based on the evidence of how dissenting voices get treated here
Of course I got that your post was about secularism, I'm not as stupid as you assume, but let us consider logically your position. You appear to operate within a paradigm that believes that Britain is a Christian culture threatened by secularists deliberately planning to overthrow it. This paradigm I think is wrong, problematic in its view of “Christianity” and contrary to John 18:36, but that's a moot point.
The real point is that you chose as evidence in this post to support your paradigm a story about the post office which is misleading. I pointed out the truth of the matter, which means that it cannot be used to support your paradigm. What the real story demonstrates is either:
1 – the post office started a secularist assault on Christmas 40 years ago
2 – the post office is running a secularist assault on Christmas but only in even numbered years
3 – the post office is not running a secularist assault on Christmas but is recognising the fact that Christmas has always been a Christian/Pagan amalgam, not sanctioned by the bible. Why do you think Cromwell banned it?
If you think the answer's 1/ by the same logic you have to believe that Queen Victoria was running a secularist assault against Christmas in the 1840s when she introduced that pagan symbol the Christmas tree into England.
The fact is you have chosen not to respond to this challenge to your evidence either by refuting it or finding some to the contrary but instead have indulged in ad hominem attacks. Your decision to put facts inside quotation marks and place it next to the word “perceive” is just the post-modern defence against having to actually do any research, hear competing arguments
I just feel sad for you that you are so terrified of the modern world you feel the need to stay in this defensive bubble of conspiracy theorists. Come on in and join those of us who look at world with all its flaws, engage with other people's arguments, learn and grow.
PS I wasn't boasting about my scholarship, I really don't give a toss about it, it's just what I do. I was just pointing out that ascribing idiocy to those you don't agree with is a bit silly when you know nothing about them.
PPS – why do you assume I'm a mister?

16 November 2006 at 17:05  
Blogger Cranmer said...

My expectations were based on the evidence of how dissenting voices get treated here

What evidence? You imply the treatment is somehow unacceptable. By whom? If one does not wish to debate the contentions, go elsewhere. It is really quite simple. Regular communicants of this august blog will know that His Grace is the epitome of politeness and demands courtesy from all to all. If you believe this to be untrue, he suggests you visit a few other blogs and gain a little wider experience.

The fact is you have chosen not to respond to this challenge to your evidence either by refuting it or finding some to the contrary but instead have indulged in ad hominem attacks.

Not at all. His Grace is simply under no compulsion to respond to anyone. And as for the accusation of 'ad hominem attacks'...

Still don't let facts get in the way of your amusing little echo-chamber chaps.

Sorry, who said that? Did you take issue with my riposte for its ad hominem attacks? They emanated from your fingers first. His Grace was simply responding to you in the manner and with the contempt you applied to him. Your first post on his august blog contained nothing intelligent, no substance, and was simply a puerile exercise in name-calling. If you wish to be treated like an adult, His Grace suggests you make your introductory communication polite, lucid, and intelligent. He and others may then be inclined to believe that you are indeed polite and intelligent. If you think His Grace was somehow wrong to respond to your initial post in the manner in which he did, you really need to become more self-aware, and analyse the words you use and the tone you adopt.

I just feel sad for you that you are so terrified of the modern world you feel the need to stay in this defensive bubble of conspiracy theorists

His Grace feels rather more sad for you that you have nothing better to do than feel sorry for him.

PPS – why do you assume I'm a mister?

His Grace has never come across a woman so obsessed with the infantile testosterone pursuit of one-upmanship, and he has never met one so stupid as to begin a dialogue with alientating insult-hurling, especially if (s)he really wishes to engage with the other party. Such behaviour is, sadly, a common attribute of modern man.

16 November 2006 at 18:41  
Anonymous Seattleite said...

So let's recap

I point out your factual inaccuracies, and the tendency of people here to accept and repeat anything they read uncritically. You respond with an insult.

I point out that you failed to address your inaccuracy, that you chose to insult rather than engage and that your insult was itself inaccurate. You respond with two insults and a demand that I address the point.

I address your point and point out the fact that you have consistently failed to address mine. You respond with five insults, an unwitting admission that you don't know what the meaning of ad hominem is and a whine about the courtesy that you refuse to extend to any who disagree with you.

I suggest Wolsey would be a more apposite nom de plume.

I shall now leave you to shoot some fish in a bucket (a considerably more challenging activity).

17 November 2006 at 03:34  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Seattleite,

Let us indeed recap, but let us do so fully:

You do indeed attempt to point out factual inaccuracies, but suffix the accusation with a cheap jibe at all who contribute here. You suffix this with a puerile and patronising insult. This was your chosen introduction to this august blog.

His Grace points out your lack of intelligence and erudition, and responds in like tone. You refuse to accept this, and respond with further insults.

You address the point, though ignore a further reminder that you have no right to demand anthing of His Grace, and are reminded that dialogue should be polite. His Grace simply refuses to engage with your arrogance.

In suggesting that His Grace is really Wolsey you display your own lack of historical knowledge and display a bias against a great and noble man.

You agree to leave us 'to shoot some fish in a bucket'. Good riddance. His Grace has been exhorting you to depart for days. And he is pleased you have discovered an exploit worthy of your stellar intellect.

His Grace mourns the murder of the fish, but is not surprised that you are the sort to kill simply to pass the time of day.

17 November 2006 at 07:49  
Anonymous Miss Amelia Grace said...

As a long-term reader of your Grace's blog I have enjoyed your debunking of European pretensions. For the first time I am moved to post. I fear that your treatment of the brusque colonial was unwarranted and unworthy of the good archbishop. As a loyal philatelist I am afraid (s)he is factually correct in what he has said, and as a student of netiquete his or her behaviour hardly extreme, and in his or her later posts conciliatory. Your responses betrayed a troubling tendency to bully. I don't like bullies. You have lost a loyal reader.

17 November 2006 at 15:44  
Blogger Cranmer said...

His Grace never said this 'brusque colonial' was factually incorrect. In fact, His Grace agrees with almost every factual statement this person made (except he attributed Christmas trees to Queen Victoria instead of the Prince Consort). As a fellow philatelist, His Grace could also have taken issue with this person's absurd assertion that the absence of Christmas stamps in 1840 establishes that the Queen was a secularist, when 'thematic' stamps were a much later development, and were only really popularised after various royal jubilees (Victoria's diamond and George V's silver).

The issue was the tone and content of this person's very first contribution. His Grace is under no compulsion to engage with anyone whose introductory contribution is critical and patronising.

Insofar as you yourself have never contributed anything to His Grace's august blog, your decision to excommunicate yourself does not make one iota of difference to anyone but yourself. And since your name has never previously appeared in any comment box, for all His Grace knows, you could be a reincarnation od Mr Seattleite.


17 November 2006 at 18:32  

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