Friday, December 08, 2006

Public swimming halted for ‘Muslim afternoon’

In a further example that the values and aspirations of Islam are antithetical to those of the United Kingdom, Croydon Council has instituted ‘Muslim only’ swimming times in its public swimming baths.

Cranmer’s occasional communicant, Mr Croydonian, will now be barred for two whole hours on Sundays from swimming in his revealing speedos, and there will be no watching the girls go by, because they are all banned. Mr Croydonian will only be admitted if he conforms to Shari’a law and wears shorts that hide the navel and cover the knees.

Croydon Council has made provision for Muslim women outside its normal opening hours, and the Shari’a dress code is to be covered from the neck down to the ankle. Have you ever tried swimming wrapped in a sheet? Cranmer can’t help wondering why health and safety factors have been subsumed to this impractical dress code.

Croydon Mosque states quite unequivocally: ‘Muslims are not allowed to show off intimate parts of their body. This is non-negotiable. Muslims have as much right to go swimming as anyone else.’

Indeed they do, sir, indeed they do. But everyone else also has as much right to go swimming when they wish to do so. This is the United Kingdom, and nothing is ‘non-negotiable’ in its liberal democratic tradition. With ironic timing, the Prime Minister has said in a speech today that tolerance was 'what makes Britain, Britain' and warned 'we must be ready to defend this conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed.'

Cranmer wonders how such sectarianism in the leisure industry would go down in other parts of the UK. What would be the outcry in Northern Ireland or Scotland if there were 'Protestant only' swimming times? How would the Mohammedans react if Christians started to insist on non-negotiable Christian-only hours in the public services? Cries of ‘racism’? Religious discrimination? Insults to ‘The Prophet’? ‘Behead those who oppose the Shari’a swim’?

By adopting Islamic practices, Croydon Council is unwittingly conforming to the demands of the Dar-al-harb – the House of War. In Islamic theology, this is a battle that rages until there is a victor, and a vanquished…


Anonymous Voyager said...

has made provision for Muslim women outside its normal opening hours

I take it they will be paying the full cost of hosting private parties in public facilities ?

8 December 2006 at 09:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If somebody wants to go swimming in a grossly impractical costume then that is their freedom as a religious nut to do so. Fair enough - but why do they need to have exclusive access to the pool? - why can't other people be swimming at the same time?

As voyager says, they should be paying to hire it as a private party. And given that Sunday afternoon is one of the few times of the week that families can go swimming together, this seems extremely stupid.

8 December 2006 at 11:07  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

I'm speechless. You give them a few hours on a Sunday, before long, they'll be asking for a half day, then a whole Muslim Day, and before you know where you are, the swimming pool's become a bloody mosque.

Why don't they INTEGRATE?

8 December 2006 at 11:17  
Blogger wrinkled weasel said...

In allowing this perversity to have the mantle of public approval, Croydon Council is helping to promulgate a parallel society, and one which is indeed inimical to everything British people hold dear. It is a scandal and it is pandering to people who already draw attention to themselves.

8 December 2006 at 11:27  
Blogger Serf said...

Can I just point out, that these kind of things are the logical result of putting too much in the hands of the public sector.

The private sector (subject to no state pressure) would say....does it make me money, yes/no and make a decision based on that.

In the public sector, all decisions are political.

8 December 2006 at 12:57  
Blogger Man in a shed said...

And what will the life guards be wearing ? What if one of them has a cross on ?

8 December 2006 at 13:13  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Will there be a special day for nude swimming ? i think there are groups which feel naked swimming to be more natural and I should be most distressed were their needs not being catered for.

8 December 2006 at 13:38  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

Does Your Grace remember Mission Impossible? Don't know why he left your august blog, but he sends his greetings (and interesting comment) on the Brussels Journal blog:

Cranmer ... warmest greetings, hope you are keeping fine and well.

Now, let us remind ourselves.

Croydon (South London) is also home to Britain's Immigration and Nationality Directorate (IND)

The IND is part of the Home Office, a department of the United Kingdom government. It occupies thirteen buildings (unlucky for some?).

Those are the people directly responsible for our immigration insanity. The IND have also been found to employ (ref: recent press reports) illegal immigrants and even members of Hizb-ut-Tahrir.

Croydon (the town) also has a large black population (at least it did the last time I was there) and it seems to be a hotbed of Leftist and Feminist theoreticians.

More info about Britain's IND can be found here courtesy of Wikipedia.

Coincidence that Islam should be "testing the waters" in Croydon?

8 December 2006 at 13:55  
Blogger Croydonian said...

Ahem. I am yet to avail myself of Croydon's swimming facilities. I check Croydon Council's press releases regularly, and there has been no mention of this that I have seen.

If the pool is not levying a surcharge on these out of hours swimmers, then quite apart from the discrimination against we kaffirs who cannot attend, there is the added insult that Croydon council tax payers (of which I am one) will be paying for these events directly, or indirectly if pool expenditure is cut elsewhere.

8 December 2006 at 13:59  
Anonymous Ulster Man said...

Wel if I was a Croydon council tax payer I'd be asking a few questions. Is this a private party? If so, who's paying for it? If not, which other religions are given this priviliege? If none, why not?

I'm still a bit annoyed about this. And looking at the link to Blair's speech, it's a slap in the face for his demand for Muslims to 'conform'.

8 December 2006 at 14:20  
Blogger Brituncula said...

It seems to be real, but not quite as exciting as the Sun suggests (Scroll right to the end). I would guess they were being pressured to find why not many muslim women used the pool and it then got a bit out of hand.

8 December 2006 at 14:30  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Brituncula,

At the bottom of the link you provide, it says:

Single Gender Sessions run in conjunction with Norbury Islamic Academy
18:45 - 20:45
Women Only - Saturdays
16:45 - 18:45
Men Only - Sundays
Dress Code must be adhered to
Please call 020 8689 5300 for more details

His Grace is not sure what you mean by 'quite as exciting'; the 'Dress Code' is Islamic, and the demand is an affront to people of other faiths, the traditions of the United Kingdom, and, as Mr Ulster Man says, a slap in the face to any notion of inclusion or conformity.

Mt Croydonian,

His Grace welcomes your contribution, as the only communicant directly affected.

He will be intrigued to see what Croydon Council does when Sikhs demand a Sikh-only swimming session, with compulsory turbans, because the loss of hair is an affront to Waheguru.

8 December 2006 at 14:39  
Blogger Rigger Mortice said...


that's fair.

8 December 2006 at 14:41  
Anonymous Rob Spear said...

Britanicula's note seems even worse than the original post - they are in fact taking up 4 hours a week between male and female, and on weekends too, including the Christian holy day. When are Britain's Jedi Knights going to stand up for similar freedoms?

8 December 2006 at 14:57  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Agree with Serf 100%. But such goings on are only to be expected in Blairs Britain.Alas.

8 December 2006 at 15:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Surely his grace would approve?
No doubt he sports an all in one flannelette bathing costume when emerging from his bathing engine to enjoy a bracing swim in the other worldly version of Bognor Regis.

8 December 2006 at 15:24  
Anonymous Voyager said...

it's a slap in the face for his demand for Muslims to 'conform'.

Ulster Man is seemingly as blinded by Blairite fairy dust as David Trimble. I did not get the impression he thought Muslims should conform more that there was some happy little sandpit where lion will lay down with lamb.

In actual fact what Blair will work hard to achieve is for Croydon to have two two-hour sessions for Non-Muslims to enjoy a Dhimmi-Swim and pay a hefty Jizya for the privilege

8 December 2006 at 17:28  
Blogger Praguetory said...

Isn't this a case where direct action is required? i.e. turn up as a group of swimmers and a few journalists and record what happens.

8 December 2006 at 17:37  
Anonymous Tejus said...

perhaps a muslim only britain is not too far away..

8 December 2006 at 18:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We'll miss you Tejus !

8 December 2006 at 18:16  
Blogger Brituncula said...

It would be interesting to see whether a non-muslim woman in the right (victorian?) bathing-dress would be allowed in. My guess would be that Croydon originally thought they were just offering some women-only sessions - cf. the country walking controversy.

8 December 2006 at 18:22  
Blogger istanbultory said...

Before you know it, there will be muslim-only beaches and muslim only buses. Once this kind of approach is embraced, who knows where it will end?

I can see that Mr Croydonian might have potential difficulties in conforming with Sharia law. I believe the wearing of yellow socks is held to be far from virtuous by Islamic scholars.

8 December 2006 at 18:30  
Anonymous billy said...

Are there still nudist only beaches? Perhaps the muslims could share those?

8 December 2006 at 18:59  
Anonymous Colin said...

Ulster Man,

Thank you for reminding us of Mission Impossible. I am missing him and his excellent comments. He left because he dished out insults to other people but wasn't willing to accept the backlash from that. Maybe you can convince him to return to Cranmer's blog assuming that His Grace will welcome his erudite and intelligent comments.

8 December 2006 at 22:49  
Anonymous Colin said...


You asked "where it will end?

No swimming times for non-Muslims -> No go areas for non-Muslims as in France -> religious cleansing -> separatism -> Dis-UK ?

8 December 2006 at 22:58  
Anonymous Tejus said...

I will not miss you for I do not know who you are..

8 December 2006 at 23:59  
Anonymous newmania said...

Nice one Tejus , this is the rule anon , if you are going to be rude do so in an entertaining and witty way.

9 December 2006 at 09:05  
Anonymous newmania said...

BTW did I not post here on the parents boycott of the Mosque trip in Croydon ?

Deleted ?It seemed
merely a respectful addition to the collegiate knowledge pool

9 December 2006 at 09:09  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Newmania,

His Grace has not had occasion to delete any contribution since August. If it is in the public religio-political interest for you to inform us of what you know, we look forward to hearing.

Mr Tejus,

His Grace exhorts all communicants to ignore the anonymice. He wishes they would adopt a name, as 'Colin' once chose to do. His Grace is eagerly awaiting a 'Mohammed', but the Mohammedans tend to dip their toes into this august blog, and then, blinded by the knowledge, intelligence and erudition of His Grace's communicants, withdraw to easier meat.

9 December 2006 at 10:13  
Anonymous Colin said...


I am wondering if we can be sure that such privileges are given unwittingly of the consequences in light of the tendency of the EU elites to social engineer their new people and to adopt Islam for obtaining the privilege of "swimming in the oil" of the Middle East.

9 December 2006 at 11:27  
Blogger wrinkled weasel said...

I thought apartheid was a dirty word?

9 December 2006 at 15:03  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes ofcourse, your grace ..

9 December 2006 at 15:31  
Anonymous Voyager said...


and I thought it was a Dutch one

9 December 2006 at 16:57  
Anonymous Croydon Crackers said...

Perhaps one of the more surprising aspects of this sad affair is who controls Croydon Council. This is not a loony Labour, nor a Dim Lib Borough, but since May it has had a hefty Tory majority. I am sure the new administration wants to please everyone, but it would appear they have put appeasement before common sense.

10 December 2006 at 00:11  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Yes but it won't be The Council per se will it ? It will be The Leisure Committee of whichever council Committee handles swimming pools.

Such matters do not go to full Council under the Blair structure.

Director of Environmental, Cultural and Sports Services ...............and Councillor steve Hollands would appear to be the 'Cabinet' Member for Sport - they are also having Black History Month

10 December 2006 at 08:11  
Anonymous Rabid Atheist said...

Why has everyone waited until 2006 to get so worked up about this? Muslim women only sessions have existed to my certain knowledge in Bristol swimming baths since the 1980's. The English middle-classes seem to have spent the last 20 years asleep or abroad or somewhere, only to be rudely woken up by 7/7, an event long anticipated by us proles. Chaps, you have left it far, far too late to try and wrench back control of your cities now. Try paying a bit more attention next time.

11 December 2006 at 03:50  
Anonymous Voyager said...

to my certain knowledge in Bristol swimming baths since the 1980's.

Bristol - land of the inappropriate apostrophe - I tend to forget about Bristol with it being so far out into the Atlantic. I visited once - but it seems so far away from anything to be of much concern to anyone but the BBC and Rolls-Royce Aerospace...............but Croydon is an airport (aka escape route)

11 December 2006 at 07:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I despair

11 December 2006 at 09:00  
Anonymous ... said...

cranmer sed - 'the Mohammedans tend to dip their toes into this august blog, and then, blinded by the knowledge, intelligence and erudition of His Grace's communicants, withdraw to easier meat.'
no no no, i think you'll find their views are not appreciated and they are made to feel very unwelcome,because they are muslims, its not cuz of the intelligence thing.....

11 December 2006 at 10:37  
Blogger Cranmer said...


If you would care to acquire a name, you may find that His Grace or his communicants may bother to engage with your rantings.

13 December 2006 at 22:31  
Anonymous Voyager said...

and they are made to feel very unwelcome,because they are muslims

Paranoia as a politico-religious system - Islam. Discuss.

14 December 2006 at 08:00  
Anonymous ... said...

cranmer, wat is ur obsession wit names?? u can differentiate me from the anonymice rite???? so wats the problem???
but if u insist, hows thomas for a name?

14 December 2006 at 21:40  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see more hate than reason in this blog! Alas! you have spare time to spread hate against muslims!

30 May 2007 at 11:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a load of rubbish.

"Shari’a dress code is to be covered from the neck down to the ankle. Have you ever tried swimming wrapped in a sheet? Cranmer can’t help wondering why health and safety factors have been subsumed to this impractical dress code. "

The Sharia dress code for women in an all-women gathering is quite different to what you've described above. The veil is worn only when male non-relatives are around.

These "muslim only" swimming session do NOT and should not exclude members of other faiths or no faith, they only exclude members of the other sex.

Women only swimming evenings are highly popular in London both with religious and non-religious people. Not everyone appreciates being gawked at, whether they're Muslim or not.

11 May 2008 at 15:27  

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