Saturday, February 16, 2008

Cardinal: 'I don’t believe in a multicultural society.'

According to The Catholic Herald, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor has signalled a change of direction for the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales with a forthright rejection of the ideology of multiculturalism. The Cardinal said efforts to create a multicultural society had led to a “lessening of the kinds of unity that a country needs”.

It is good to hear a clarity of religio-political thought after the rather opaque pronouncement emanating from Lambeth Palace. The Archbishop of Canterbury is manifestly in favour of multiculturalism since he asserts that Britain should accommodate religious legal codes, such as Shari'a law, in order to achieve community cohesion. While Dr Williams believes that the adoption of some aspects of the Shari'a in Britain 'seems unavoidable', the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster begs to differ. With the amended introduction, the article is reproduced below:

The Cardinal intervened in the debate to say that migrants should embrace the idea of equality under the law rather than live by other legal codes. “I don’t believe in a multicultural society,” he told the Sunday Telegraph. “When people come into this country they have to obey the laws of the land. There are going to be certain things which might clash in the overall culture of the country. That’s where one has to make a judgment.

“There are aspects of Sharia that are practised that we certainly wouldn’t want in this country. The laws of this country don’t allow forced marriages or polygamy. It seems to me a government and a country has a right to make sure that those laws are kept.

“It is not enough for people to live within their own cultures and then say: ‘We’ll live within the freedoms that are given in this country within a totally separate culture.’

“Of course you can keep the variety of traditions, but when you enter this country there are common values which are part of its heritage, which should be embraced by everybody.”

The Cardinal, one of six children of Irish immigrants, said it would be better if Muslims contributed beyond their own families to the common good, saying they would then “become a normal part of this country and, indeed, cherish those values that should be common to everyone”.

His comments come just months after he expressed fears that Polish migrants could create “a separate church” in Britain. He said Poles should enter Catholic life in Britain and join English-speaking parishes as soon as they learned the language.

The Cardinal’s forthright views are likely to place him at odds with elements of the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales, which has traditionally been seen as sympathetic to multiculturalism.

The Catholic Association for Racial Justice, an agency of the bishops’ conference, issued a charter in 2003 for “a truly inclusive Church” where differences were valued and diversity was celebrated.

It said that seminary training should include “multicultural formation” to help priests cope with ethnically diverse parishes. The document was drawn up by delegates at a three-day congress which had been organised by the agency. The congress was attended by Baroness Patricia Scotland, then a minister in the Home Office, Diana Hayes, an American theologian, and about a dozen bishops. The Cardinal gave a short opening address and celebrated Mass.

Clifford Longley, a Catholic commentator, said he believed the Cardinal’s latest comments represented an “adjustment” in his thinking. The Cardinal’s approach to the subject, he said, had been shaped by “the experience of the Irish community in which he grew up”. He said: “He’s very much assimilated into English culture and he expects a similar thing to happen to later generations of immigrants. “He believes that on a generational scale the differences will diminish and we must not prolong them beyond their natural life,” said Mr Longley.

Robert Whelan, deputy director of Civitas, an independent think-tank, said the Cardinal had shown that it was no longer taboo to criticise multiculturalism. He said: “Privately people have had doubts for years but now there has been a change in the climate and public figures are prepared to admit that multiculturalism doesn’t work.

“For a long time people felt they had to be in favour of it – to be against it was like being a Holocaust denier.”


Anonymous nedsherry said...

Cardinal: 'I don’t believe in a multicultural society -- which is why I'm all in favour of the mass immigration that guarantees we won't have one.'

Perfectly logical.

The Cardinal intervened in the debate to say that migrants should embrace the idea of equality under the law rather than live by other legal codes.

And what if they don't? Are we going to make them? What if there are enough of them here to set up a parallel society?

The Cardinal said efforts to create a multicultural society had led to a “lessening of the kinds of unity that a country needs”.

Something else has "lessened" unity more than multiculturalism. When the Cardinal -- and His Grace -- start condemning it, we'll know they've recognized the truth.

16 February 2008 at 13:11  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...


Where did the Cardinal say that he was in favour of mass immigration? Certainly not in this snippet put out by His Grace, nor in the full Catholic Herald article.

16 February 2008 at 13:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Cardinal, one of six children of Irish immigrants, said it would be better if Muslims contributed beyond their own families to the common good"

Of course, our royal family and landed gentry have never done anything like this, have they?

That aside, it's time people woke up to the doublespeak that multiculturalism is in some way good for the country. Will we have to have passport controls on the borders of Leicester or Bradford and the other Independent Islamic States before people wake up?

16 February 2008 at 14:02  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its like history repeating itself all over again.

The English protestant ruling class v The European Roman catholic ruling class. Divide and Rule and then Divide and Rule again. Can not these people come up with a new trick, or just find something better to do?

Will our ruling elites not ever get their heads together and stop trying to carve the world up for themselves?

This is 2008, not 1608 what going on here? Are we all having a bit of a nightmare. Or is this the real world? I am beginning not to care.

Sometimes I wish I could wake up and find all this destructive and hateful POWER AND MONEY inspired deliberately created divisive nonsense, was just a bad dream.

He who forgets his history is preprogrammed to repeat it.

Which is only one of the reasons why we no longer teach real history in our classrooms. Our ruling class want us to repeat it, time and time again.

If I was you Cranmer I would buy some fire proof undies, the way we are going.

Atlas shrugged, woke up, opened his eyes, found out is was all for real, and shrugged again. Then quickly went back to sleep.

16 February 2008 at 15:52  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

" 'I don’t believe in a multicultural society -- which is why I'm all in favour of the mass immigration that guarantees we won't have one.'"

PC was deliberately designed to be a cognitive impairment. Herburt Marcuse declared 'reason' and 'reality' to be authoritarian weapons.

The stated intention of multiculturalism was not to divide and rule, it was to shield from cultural imperialism. Multiculturalism is perfectly consistent with the liberal nostrum "do what thou wilt as though it were the law."

In my town Poles account for 1% of the population and yet account 25% of theft of fish from the local rivers. They set up nets across the rivers and intimidate the bailifs with knives. The media says its a predjudice to correctly identify the perpetrators of this theft as Polish on the basis of there representing "only" 25% of all fish theft. Not bad going for only a tiny minority and a tiny minority. But that is what PC does to you. PC is institutional cognitive impairment.

16 February 2008 at 16:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes Yes I know there are many of you out there saying "oh no not that paranoid Atlas shrugged again."

But please try to understand that just because one IS paranoid does not mean in anyway that one does not have a very very good reason to be so.

In fact I believe it is the natural state of an active free thinking mind.

Virtually everything that happened in the past has sometimes much later been shown to have been a conspiracy. Not just chance or bad luck. As long as you read between the lines, and use you own common sense.

However bad luck and chance is how we have been brainwashed by our schools and other establishments into believing the world works. The church usually used to describe this process as the unseen hand of GOD. But then came TV for example and the rules changed, oh so very slightly.

Almost every strange or very bad therefore profitable for some, man made event, IS a product of a conspiracy of one sort or another.

In the business world I inhabit, the above statement is just simple common sense and also a useful survival package.

All it means is that people with a common objective are doing something at the same time due to these common interests.

OR they have literally sat down in advance and planned it all in secret. A secret deal is the lifeblood of the system we all live our lives in. By definition the deal cant work properly if every one knows whats going on.

The truth is, it makes no effective difference which one it is, because the results for you and me, are always the same anyway.

Not very often good, but can turn out to be not a complete disaster in the end. As long as you win and get to write the history of it all, later.

Atlas shrugged and then remembered Winston Churchill.

16 February 2008 at 16:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You have it son. That whats it is all about. Quite clever really.

But then these people have had lots of practice and employ the finest minds that exist on the planet, to help them work it all out. We on the other hand only have the education they allow us to have. Then THEIR mass media do the rest.

Atlas shrugged and was reassured to find he is not the only one in the world still in contact with his own free will.

Good on you.

16 February 2008 at 16:46  
Anonymous nedsherry said...

ultramontane grumpy old catholic writes:

Where did the Cardinal say that he was in favour of mass immigration? Certainly not in this snippet put out by His Grace, nor in the full Catholic Herald article.

He doesn't mention it at all, because he supports it. Here he is waffling about it:

"Most immigrants come to our country because they wish to have a better life and work so as to provide for their families. What concerns me at the moment is our attitude as a nation to these many immigrants," he continued. "Many of these people are trying, for perfectly good reasons, to enter Britain and they need to be welcomed. I understand that immigration needs to be controlled. However, sometimes they must feel like Joseph when he returned to Bethlehem after exile in Egypt, simply excluded because they are outsiders."

No suggestion of how it should be controlled, no criticism of its central role in the fragmentation he's now condemning, no recognition that "just wanting a better life" is not a legal ground for coming here -- typical pro-migration dishonesty, in other words.

16 February 2008 at 17:51  
Blogger Man in a Shed said...

Your Grace,

Sometimes I am given to uncharitable thoughts that perhaps Mr Blair chose Dr Williams to be Archbishop as he knew that would terminally weaken the Church of England to Rome's advantage.

16 February 2008 at 19:24  
Blogger andrew holden said...

I don't find much in what the Cardinal says about Islam and our society that Rowan Williams would disagree with - so why is this such a big deal? Yet again enemies of the AoC are trying to misrepresent and distort.

As for not wanting multiculturalism - well that's OK but the only alternative on offer will be a totalitarian secularism. Britain is not going to endorse Roman Catholicism and even the Anglican establishment is in it's last days. If the Cardinal doesn't want the kind of multiculturalism where conscience is respected then he'll be out on a limb in a secular wasteland which will have little time for things like opt-outs for Catholic doctors and nurses vis-a-vis abortion!

16 February 2008 at 19:40  
Anonymous irenelancaster said...

Today's Times leads on the return of many Poles to Poland, mainly due to the weak pound and the rise of the zloty

16 February 2008 at 20:43  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Regarding Nedsherry's reference to the Cardinal at Christmas 2007:

I agree that the reference you cite doesn't seem to be one of His Eminence's best contributions and it's quite easy to pull it apart.

But even as reported by the BBC, he does not say that he approves of the immigration; he accepts that it is happening and it needs to be controlled; and he understands why people want to do enter this country, and he wants us all to be nice to people once they are here.

Again according to the BBC report, he chides the British people for not welcoming immigrants. But I think that is unfair. On the whole immigrants are accepted in this country, and even welcomed in certain cases. The Poles have been welcomed, their children attend our local schools and are learning English fast. Where the Brits get grumpy is the inflamatory rhetoric and the sheer aggressiveness of certain immigrants who have fouled the nest and wish to move our culture in a different direction.

It would be outside the Cardinal's remit to make any suggestion about how immigration should be controlled, and I think all church leaders have to be very careful about stepping into the political arena. Our host, His Grace, is an exception, but he is a free spirit.

The analogy about Joseph returning from exile in Egypt to Bethlehem is not a good one and isn't even accurate. According to St Matthew (Chap 2) Joseph came back from Egypt with Mary and the Babe and proceeded to Nazareth because of fear of Herod's successor. He didn't come back to Bethlehem. Assuming that the Cardinal would not make this trivial mistake, I assume that the BBC reporter probably had too much Christmas spirit. That would not surprise me at all.

16 February 2008 at 23:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can I clarify, what I believe is going on here?

Also, sorry if you personally know this already, but here go's.

I don't know whether it helps, but it may start people thinking along a different road. So assist them to concentrate on spiritual matters instead of highly political ones.

I ask the reader to consider that you are indeed being manipulated to division and not unity of the human spirit. However much our religious and political leaders may seem to be doing the opposite, sometimes.

How deep this go's and how organized these conspiracy's of interests are, is of no material importance.

( However what is vitally important is OUR ETERNAL SOULS, I hope we all agree. )

What is this conspiracy of interests, how is it done and why?

Usually its done strictly on a need to know basis. Which means only the people at the very top really know whats going on.

The head of one being The Pope in Rome. The other being the British establishment headed up by the British royal family.

The rest are just foot soldiers, who think they know whats going on, but never get to see the whole picture.

The Roman Catholic, and Anglican church's, are rich.



More rich and powerful then most people have the wits to understand. Mainly because they are not told this fact virtually anywhere or by anybody, for a very bad reason.

Now there is nothing in itself wrong with being very rich and powerful, but it does cause certain problems.

That is, how to keep rich and very powerful. Especially when you have big wages bills to pay and a whole church establishment to run. When you dont really produce any profitable goods and services.

So over many years this is what you do.

Either establish yourself with a very powerful nation ie the British empire, which simply is a very big business. OR you start your own bank and run yourself more as a very big business, then a house of god.

You use your power over private individuals souls, charities, religious foundations, and most of all elected governments to invest in the 'right things'. Or very bad things indeed, it makes no difference to the bottom line.

Then using the same power, cause division wars and just about any other form of conflict in order to make those investments pay off big time. Either in the short term or quite often in the long term.

This sort of activity tends to give a far higher return then just putting your spare cash on deposit with the Halifax. To say the least.

You can work out yourself how over the years the great duopoly of European and world powers have been doing this. I do not have the indulgence of Cranmer, on which to explain it all now.

Its clever, but not that clever. You can find the evidence for it, because there is an incredibly large amount of it. Your OLD history, not just your NEW conspiracy books, are full to the brim with it.

The unseen hand is not so difficult to see anymore. You just have to have the guts to look, and the free mind to comprehend.

Atlas shrugged, looked to the sky and asked. "WHY have you let this become the case, surly the common man does not deserve this?"

Then he considered to himself.

Maybe he does. His bible warned him, but he never bothered to read it. Or if he did he was just to stupid and greedy himself, to understand it properly.

17 February 2008 at 03:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very very sorry to go on but there is something else you all need to take on, because it says much about our current situation.

This duopoly I have described, does not now days have the world all to itself anymore. To play with like a highly profitable toy.

There are other powers that have moved into its territory and they mean business as well. So a deal had to be done, again over time, to stop the world literally falling apart, into chaos.


These other powers are the Jewish Muslim and more independent big money, international political, and national interests. Most of which are based in the US the old soviet union and now the far east and China.

It seems to me a deal has been done to keep them all happy. The creation of the EU being a major part of the deal. Which is why it will happen, whatever we the people of Europe say or do, and I do mean anything at all.

These largely secret deals are done using the masonic orders, along with their network of establishments around the entire world. Including the UN.

But the deal is complicated and the competitive nature of these powers keeps them sometimes at each others necks, as they strain for position and influence.

It seems, but I cant be sure that the Muslim powers were have not been so keen on playing the game. But its just as possible they are cleverly buggering up there own people, much the same as our establishments have been messing around with us for many hundreds of years.

The good news is, and there is always good news if you look for it. Is that however much they often intimidate and murder their own people, there is a structure to the way the world is being run.

Which prevents it all going completely crazy, because most the REAL leaders of the world are indeed dangerous criminally minded greedy psychopaths IMHO.

Which is why the absolute logic of actual nuclear planetary destruction never happened, and hopefully never will.

This is also why we should all have the deepest respect for one our gods most humble creations, the ordinary honest common man*. Thats you and me.

Who in spite of all the things constantly put in his way, by the people he thinks he can trust, and is constantly taxed into poverty to pay for. He still comes back, rebuilds everything, then produces and feeds his own family.

Atlas shrugged, and then counted his blessings once again.

* So I do not seem to be offending or forgetting our women folk, the term common man and the words man him and his, totally includes you to. Which before these people started messing about with our minds on this particular subject, went without saying.

17 February 2008 at 05:42  
Blogger Jeremy Jacobs said...

"it would be better if Muslims contributed beyond their own families to the common good"

Common practice in north-west London!

17 February 2008 at 11:59  
Anonymous The Recusant said...

I think I can say with confidence without fear of contradiction that the Cardinal has not always engendered a feeling of affectionate loyalty from the wider Catholic community in the UK resulting form some of his pronouncements or lack thereof.. However you could knock me over with a feather when I read of this in the Catholic Herald and I might say once again Your Grace seldom misses a trick.

17 February 2008 at 13:49  
Blogger Snuffleupagus said...

I thought multiculturalism meant a society where all cultures contributed to the common good. To suggest otherwise is to misunderstand multiculturalism. And to behave otherwise is to reject one's multicultural society in pursuit of a monocultural one.

17 February 2008 at 20:04  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Ms Snuffy,

With respect, you appear to confusing ethnicity with culture. Multi-ethnic does not demand a multi-culture, for diverse ethnicities and religions may offer allegiance to the mono-culture you appear to deride.

17 February 2008 at 21:53  
Blogger Snuffleupagus said...

Your Grace
I take your point about my lack of precision in speech. But I still believe it is possible to have a multi-ethnic and multicultural society with people who offer allegiance to a shared set of values and morality.

Do you think me naive?

19 February 2008 at 01:09  

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