Thursday, July 31, 2008

Tatchell condemns ‘Christian bigots’

It is curious indeed that Peter Tatchell of the ‘gay rights’ group Outrage protests at the Lambeth Conference against the ‘Christian bigots’ who oppose homosexual behaviour. Does he not realise that, for all its manifest faults (and they are legion), at least the Church of England is openly discussing the issue and engaging with theologians who hold views similar to his own?

Yet during his concluding remarks, Cardinal Kasper reiterated the uncompromising position of the Roman Catholic Church that ‘homosexual activity is disordered’. No discussion, no debate, no conference to seek the diverse views of sundry homophiliac theologians or academics.

So why does Mr Tatchell not protest outside the Vatican?

Or is it simply that it easier to hurl insults at those closer to home with whom one does not agree, ‘bigot’ being the easiest?

Cranmer notes the thoughts of Charles Moore on the matter:

“Almost every time you read an article commenting on people who, for religious reasons, disapprove of homosexual marriage, practising homosexuals becoming priests and so on, you find the word ‘bigot’ used. Even intelligent commentators seem to think it unarguable that such attitudes are bigoted. Why? To this day, all the mainstream monotheistic religions of the world take the view that homosexual acts are wrong, and they have reasons of scripture and wider moral teaching to back this up. Believers who maintain that view in the face of modern social pressure are only following their faith, just as Christians would be if they opposed polygamy, suttee or euthanasia. The word ‘bigoted’ does have an accepted meaning. It does not mean ‘religious’, or even ‘fervently religious’. Bigotry is the obstinate and blind, often nasty and hypocritical, attachment to a particular creed. No doubt some people who oppose gay marriages are indeed like this — venting hatred towards homosexuals (which their religion forbids) — but many are decent, conscientious and thoughtful. Isn’t it rather bigoted, in fact, to assume that your opponents on certain subjects are bigots? It is like the way anyone who criticises Islamist extremism will find himself described as ‘Islamophobic’.”


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Tachell looks rather pale and very thin these days.

31 July 2008 at 20:53  
Anonymous Stonemason said...

I don't like Tatchell, I don't like any bully's no matter what flavour. And bully you are.

31 July 2008 at 20:56  
Anonymous Rebel Saint said...

I do like Mr Tatchell. I completely disagree with his views on homosexuality. But he's more of a "messianic" (or at least John the Baptist) character than anyone in the CofE. He speaks out for what he believes. He speaks with conviction and then lives by those convictions. He enacts change Hey, he even lives a life of poverty. Oh for some people of his calibre within the CofE leadership.

31 July 2008 at 21:30  
Blogger mckenzie said...

He is a mincer, a bender, part of his mincing and bending pleasure is derived from mincing around with poof signs.
It's all part of being a complete mincing, poofy bender.
If he was simply a homosexual, it would be tolerable, but he can't help mincing around and displaying himself in all his gay bending poofety.

31 July 2008 at 21:40  
Anonymous dexey said...

rebel saint said...
I do like Mr Tatchell. He speaks out for what he believes. He speaks with conviction and then lives by those convictions.

Aren't his 'convictions' the whole of what his life is about?
He seeks his sexual pleasures in a particular form and parasitically requires heterosexuals to provide his partners.
He tells us he has 'rights' and expects what I believe to be the majority to change their view of his practices on his say so.

31 July 2008 at 22:34  
Anonymous Rebel Saint said...

I don't agree with his opinions - in fact I'm almost diametrically opposed to them.

But at least he stands for something. You know exactly what he stands for. He takes risks for his convictions. He stands by his convictions. He confronts people who don't share his convictions. One man has almost single handedly turned around the national (& international) attitude s towards sexual behaviour (for the worse).

Compare and contrast that with anything that happens in Lambeth over the next few weeks.

Oh for a man of his passion & conviction within the Church.

31 July 2008 at 22:55  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

Tatchell's aggression stems from his rejection of truth. The rejection of truth leads one to locate the substance of thought within the cranium, if someone says something you don't like then you must rearrange their brains - perhaps with psychiatry, perhaps with a weapon.

Truth, of course, exists outside of oneself - We Christians believe: "In the beginning was the word." Tatchell however believes "In the Beginning was the Act".. Like Faust, like Lucifer.

And how unsurprising that this demonism goes well in hand with homosexualism?

1 August 2008 at 00:05  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

Click here to see why Fred Phelps began opposing homosexualism

Go here for a library of zealous Christian resources.

1 August 2008 at 00:24  
Anonymous Rob Farrington said...

I'm a Christian and OK, I believe that homosexual behaviour is wrong. I also believe that a lot of the behaviour I sometimes choose to indulge in is wrong, too.

In the end, none of us are perfect. I don't believe that a homosexual is necessarily a worse sinner than I am. It's something that should be between him and God, with everyone else preferably choosing not to stick their oars in.

But that comment was about people living their private lives, not about the admission of homosexuals to the clergy. Does Peter Tatchell want to become an Anglican? does he even believe in God? If not, then why does church policy have anything to do with him?

Next thing up: Peter Tatchell flies to Iran to discuss destructive homophobic attitudes with senior ayatollahs. No, really - I just saw a winged pig flying past my window.

1 August 2008 at 01:27  
Anonymous nbc said...

I think that Tatchell's failure to respect other people's opinions on homosexuality is itself bigoted, but he's too far up his own arse to notice.

1 August 2008 at 12:26  
Anonymous tiberswimmer said...

Your Grace, may I submit that the reason Mr Tatchell does not protest outside the Vatican is that even he realises that he has not the remotest chance of changing the mind of the Catholic Church. The Church of England on the other hand can be talked in to/out of just about anything.

1 August 2008 at 13:09  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Lord Tiberswimmer,

His Grace is a little concerned that his taxes may have subsidised your saucer of milk this morning.

Although he is relieved to read the qualification 'just about', there are some advantages in not communicating with one's fellow human beings with 'utterlies' and 'absolutelies'.

Semper eadem is itself something of an anomoly, given that sucessive councils of the Church manifestly gather to clarify doctrine or develop dogmata, though not, His Grace grants you, to the extent of the Anglican Communion.

1 August 2008 at 13:24  
Anonymous hear o israel said...

whilst it is true that homosexuals do often have tremendous creative abilities and talents , they also tend to think that they "feel" more than hetrosexuals and often accuse the latter of ignorance and bigatory.

mr tatchell has made it his lifes work to see that the great divide of his believers behavoir is removed , weaken the church and so opposition to homosexuality is weakend also .

eventually see gene robinson must have been some sort of crowning glory "hooray at last the church has to confront its exclusion of a perfectly acceptable behavoir"

of course mr tatchel has done other courageous things , in seeking some sort of equality he has managed to drive a doctrinal wedge , all very progressive modernist stuff , opening the eyes of the biblical dullards !!

this attempt unmake sin to me seems godless , and what may have happened is that the hidden sin of "equality" may have unleased indifference.

does he be moan the failing families , lost in a moral maze , the children who do not have fathers , becuase they prefer the more instant gratifcation .

peter tatchell may not now like what he sees as the results of his efforts , indeed he have now caused a right wing movement that will think homosexual propoganda ruinous and suspicious.

if we are supposed to be "grown up" in this debate it would have been better to ponder if the bibles teachings meant more than the sin in the longer term not just for him but for all those heterosexuals that need are now impoverished courtesy of equality

1 August 2008 at 17:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with His Grace's comments on the misuse of the word 'bigot', but feel it necessary to point out that many Christians who do speak against homosexuality, it has to be said, prove to be bigots. With such ignorant assertions such as homosexuals choosing the lifestyle, being comparable to paedophiles, and disgusting people who need Jesus in their lives (though many would claim already to know Jesus very well, myself included).

The intolerance associated with bigotry, it has to be said, is manifested in many homophobic comments by non-Christians and indeed so-called Christians alike.

1 August 2008 at 20:53  
Anonymous Fitzroy said...

Perhaps the problem lies in identifying this as a protest. It would surely be a protest if it occurred at the Vatican, and a futile one. But at Lambeth there is a debate taking place, and an audience to play to as some liberal bishops may be emboldened by seeing their opponents labeled as bigots.

1 August 2008 at 22:47  
Blogger Rhamnus said...

Islam condemns sodomy entirely; indeed they hang sodomites in many Islamic countries – yet I don’t recall seeing Mr Tatchell outside any mosque with his placards. But there again Muslims bite, while Anglicanism’s teeth fell out long ago. I suppose Dr Williams could always threaten young Tatchell with a severe gumming…

3 August 2008 at 00:14  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Catholic I have absolutely no problem at all with the statement 'homosexual activity is disordered'

It is the Church's job to hold fast to fundamental moral truths, just as it's her job to extend Christ's boundless love and acceptance of fault to all men.

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

And CofE theologians or academics in debate may agree that a propensity to steal is genetic, and that therefore practising thieves should be admitted to holy orders or to the mitre, as being true to their God-given natures. But it really doesn't alter the fundamental moral tenet that stealing is wrong, and that the behaviour of those that do it is disordered.

For my Church, here she stands. She can do no other.

4 August 2008 at 15:51  
Blogger killemallletgodsortemout said...

someone wrote earlier:- He takes risks for his convictions.

Well, mate, it looks from the pic that he has taken some risks with his health as well.

I'd give him 5 years, before he meets his maker.

6 August 2008 at 18:59  
Anonymous Wallenstein said...

While we have CoE bishops in the House of Lords, and while Anglicanism remains the official religion of state, it surely makes political sense for Mr Tatchell to focus on Lambeth rather than Rome?

The goal of Mr Tatchell and his fellow activists is - rightly or wrongly - to effect political change as well as social change. That's best done by concentrating on the political establishment, a part of which is represented by the Anglican Church.

While the CoE retains influence over national life it should expect to be the object of political pressure.

The time to worry is when Mr Tatchell etc ignore the church - that will be the sign that its influence is truly gone.

9 August 2008 at 14:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe tha jesus was a bigot.
cut and paste and you'll see

16 August 2008 at 07:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesus christ is Gods solution to a dying and corrupt world
Reject him and and you reject your only chance of salvation!

19 August 2008 at 08:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this talk of The Church, bishops, religion, denominations ,theologions, intellectuals etc ,is mere posturing!
This world is condemmed!, the religious systems of this world are condemmed!!
All that matters is a new creation in Christ Jesus born of the Holy Spirit of the true God of the Bible Yahweh.

19 August 2008 at 08:19  
Blogger Harry's Blog said...

To compare gay people to thieves, as a Roman Catholic (i.e. bigot) up the comment tree has done is deeply offensive to people like me who are in long lasting monogamous gay relationships, who are in other words married.

on the subject of what is going on at Lambeth, the sooner the anti-gay bigots flounce off and join the true bigots in the Church of Rome, leaving the C of E to align properly with the morality of the nation it represents, the better.

19 August 2008 at 17:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are two spiritual laws in operation in this universe.The law of sin and death.The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.One leads to life the other leads to death.God says choose life!!But ultimately its YOUR decision.

20 August 2008 at 12:22  
Blogger Paul Mcmike said...

HARRY BOG, your in the minority further your going directly against scriputre, both the new and old testament, look your less sinful than some hedonist but unless your abstaining from sex with your partner you are in sin, funny how you dont like being compared to a petty thief, yet was it not peadophiles in the past? Your the bigot for not accepting that people find the gay sex act immoral, even in your own church and especially in the true churches of ROME and Calvinists both of whom stay true to biblical principle, the fact you see any criticism as a slight is yet another sign of pride, thats a sin to, none of us are sinless yet you are claiming you are, only potential procreative mongomous relationships are approved, why do you ignore the bible so much, we all know shellfish is an ambomonation but that was a civil law of the time whereas the decorations on marriage where moral law which hold true in the new and the old testament. Bigtory is intollerance to Criticism and thats what you display, its a shame that you think you are sinless and that you can steal, beat people up and that their is " no such thing as a sin" so I take it you think murder is cool and abortion a laugh?

19 January 2013 at 00:02  

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