Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Oxford’s Christians apologise to Muslims for daring to pray during Ramadan

Cranmer is most disturbed, if not a little irritated, to read that a Christian group in Oxford has apologised to the city’s Muslims for having the audacity to organise a day of prayer during Ramadan. Oxfords Muslims found it ‘ill-conceived and insensitive’, not to mention ‘grossly insulting and inflammatory’.

The Muslim Education Centre of Oxford (MECO) has accused the Evangelical group ‘Open Doors UK’ of preaching ‘evangelical propaganda’.

Do not Muslims preach Islamic propaganda? Do the Christians in Oxford complain about this? Would the Muslims of Oxford apologise or even care if the Christians did complain about it?

But the greatest offence was taken because the Christians had dared to refer to their event as a ‘Call to Prayer’. Apparently, only Muslims may now use this term, despite the manifest and lengthy heritage Jews and Christians have of calling believers to worship, celebration or prayer with the blast of the shofar or the peel of church bells. It might also be noted that in previous decades the monarch or prime minister issued a call to prayer to the entire nation at times of crisis, though the practice has inevitably fallen victim to pluralism and secularism.

Let us not forget that it was in Oxford that Muslims were being insensitive and unduly provocative in their demands to sound the call to prayer amid the dreaming spires. But what irritates Cranmer no end - in fact he is incandescent with rage for only the second time since this blog’s inception - is that this Christian event was not some triumphalist public parade or obtrusive prayer march down the narrow lanes and crowded streets of the city (as some Evangelicals are wont to indulge in) - but that it consisted of prayer and teaching in a church - St Aldate's, to be precise.

And Cranmer’s incandescence is not because Oxford’s Muslim’s have complained - for they are surely entitled to voice their opinion, notwithstanding that what goes on in St Aldate’s in manifestly none of their business. No, what inclines Cranmer almost to use the very scriptural term recently deployed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer is that these lily-livered Christians have apologised, saying they ‘regret’ any offence that had been caused. In fact, they ‘very much regret’ causing offence, and are bending over backwards to stress that they ‘were not denigrating Islam or criticising Muslim beliefs’.

Why IN THE NAME OF CHRIST are Christians apologising for praying in a church? And why are they so ashamed of the gospel that they prostrate themselves before those who have complained and express regret for seeking their salvation?

The chairman of MECO is one Dr Taj Hargey, and it is he who is ‘flabbergasted’ that these dhimmi Christians organised a day-long initiative termed ‘Call to Prayer’. But he really ought to express his humble gratitude to these Christians that they are so concerned about the eternal salvation of Muslims that they are even bothered to pray for them at all. Do the Muslims pray for Christians at Easter?

Apparently, Dr Hargey checked the Open Doors website, and was appalled that ‘innocent sounding publicity was headlined “A Call to Prayer”’. Dr Hargey was also offended that these Christians dare to tell of miracles and how ‘God answers these prayers, revealing Himself to Muslims around the world, and bringing many to faith in Jesus’. He was further offended that Open Doors refers to Islam as an ‘ideology’, and said he was ‘shocked by their theological self-righteousness’ because they ‘assume the self-appointed task to pray for Muslims'

Setting aside the manifest hypocrisy in the accusation of ‘theological self-righteousness’, the good doctor might like to consider that he is himself denigrating and criticising Christian beliefs, for Christians are not ‘self-appointed’ to pray for Muslims: it is the commandment of the Lord that they do so, and also that they preach the gospel – 'in season and out' (2Tim 4:2). And they do so not out of pride or with any assertion of superiority, but out of gracious humility and love (which in some countries would be on pain of torture and death), for they long to share with the world the wondrous salvation of Jesus.

But Cranmer wonders why one has never heard Dr Hargey be so vocal in his condemnation of Islamist terrorism - the murder, rioting, the execution of children, or barbaric tribal practices like burying girls alive for the glory of Allah.

And while he is contemplating a response to that, Cranmer would like to ask the good doctor how he would respond if Christians were to tell him what they might find ‘offensive’ about Ramadan or about his own ‘theological self-righteousness’. For who is he to express disapproval of Christian prayer in a church or disgust at the Great Commission when Muslims are still hearing exhortations to murder and messages of hate in their mosques? And he might also like to consider that he follows a man who massacred and assassinated women, children and the elderly; who married a girl when she was just six years old and had sexual intercourse with her when she was nine; and who taught that Islam is the one true religion and that all must be subject to the rule of Allah.

What ‘theological self-righteousness’ is this?

Some Christians might indeed be ‘appalled’ that such a man might be considered a role-model to be emulated. But they might be absolutely ‘flabbergasted’ to learn of the deceitful qur’anic doctrine of taqiyya (3:28 and 16:106), not to mention the humiliating and discriminatory jizya (9:29) which should be imposed on all non-Muslims.

But Cranmer is delighted to learn from Dr Hargey that MECO’s aim is ‘to bring people of all faiths together, not divide them further’.

He is sure that Oxford’s Christians will be delighted to receive this message of love and unity from a learned spokesman for the religion of peace.

And he is also relieved that MECO ‘would not hold a grudge’.

At least the dhimmi Christians of Oxford may sleep safely in their beds, secure in the assurance that there will be no reprisal... unless, of course, the assurance is just taqiyya.


Anonymous Ken Stevens said...

The meek shall disinherit the earth?

2 September 2008 at 19:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its time the true heart of Islam was exposed.
If you get hold of the Qua`ran and read it you will be shocked!

2 September 2008 at 20:10  
Anonymous Wallenstein said...

An event by members of the state religion specifically targeted at converting Muslims, during Ramadan, and using Muslim terminology and images of Muslim women... and you don't see how it might make some people uncomfortable??

Incredible. As the Good Book suggests, there are none so blind...

2 September 2008 at 21:31  
Anonymous Andy said...


I can't help but feel that from your postiion of infite wisdom, you would encourage understanding with your words.

Accusation and genralisation will only encourage more discord between the groups who inhabit this island. Like it or not, we have to share our space with others - so with this in mind, slanging matches won't achieve much, and really, we all know it.

While not making any judgement on the rights and wrongs of the acts of either faith, now or in the past, lasting harmony in the future depends give and take.

Harmony in Aincent Rome was achieved with the birth of the Roman Catholic Church; the merger of traditional Pagan and the follwers of Christ. Perhaps the world could do with a modern day council of Nicaea? A new 'brand' or religion might catch on with the youngsters?

When your anger subsides, Archbishop, maybe you could put the wheels in motion?

2 September 2008 at 21:38  
Blogger Didactophobe said...

Well said, Cranmer. A speech worthy of your earlier incarnation.

2 September 2008 at 21:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As this nation staggers towards a one world religion we may see God give this nation over to its own devises!(perhaps its already happening?) I am of course speaking of the God of the bible Jahweh, Name above all names.

2 September 2008 at 22:00  
Blogger Meriel said...

I find it interesting that you interpret the Open Doors/St Aldate's statement as an apology. To me, it came across as an attempt to defuse the tension without backing down: it expresses regret that offence was taken, but not that the event was held.

2 September 2008 at 22:14  
Anonymous Graham said...

Cranmer incandescent again in Oxford. I never thought I would see it. But this time I like your fire and warm to your ire at the dhimmis who cower before Islamic self-righteousness.

2 September 2008 at 22:17  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Andy,

His Grace thanks you for your counsel.

But you have manifestly missed the primary cause of his irritation.

Of course we all have to 'share our space with others' - but only where that space is public. This was a call to prayer to take place in St Aldate's Church. That is not public space, and those who have authority there are not obliged to share it with anyone.

Christians in this land are free to preach the gospel, and are exhorted to do so 'in season and out of season', and the Lord stated quite clearly that some will be offended.

You will not be surprised that His Grace has little sympathy for your syncretised One World Religion notion. Whom do you propose to place in charge?

2 September 2008 at 22:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wallenstein, you're an idiot. Are you so blind as to not see how quick Muslims are to take insult at anything that they deem to be different or "un-Islamic"? The biggest problem facing the democracies is our lack of unity in the face of grave threats. It is people like you, and your misguided empathy for vicious, barbaric Islamic mindsets (sorry, "culture"), who are responsible for our craven capitulations to Islam.

2 September 2008 at 22:47  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

All too depressing, Your Grace,

Maybe Christians are not allowed to have prophets either...

2 September 2008 at 23:58  
Anonymous ash said...

I don't often read your blog. That's not an insult. Different people have different interests. Added to which I also have absolutely NO knowledge of Oxford or of the people involved here.
A small point though. As a Christian gay man whose partner is Muslim, we are both nice, moderate people. Could you please use the word "some" before the words "Muslims" and "Christians"? The loopy, loony taliban-trots of both religions are not representative of everyone in their faith (even if they claim that our sexuality excludes us from that faith). There are probably more "mad mullahs" than there are spooky Nigerian Bishops but they don't speak for all of us. They speak for many, unfortunately. But please qualify your comments just a little. Unless of course you think gay, liberal Chritians and Muslims should be stoned!

3 September 2008 at 00:06  
Anonymous Sir Henry Morgan said...

Your Grace,

You should get incandescent with rage more frequently.

3 September 2008 at 00:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two major proleytising religions in "we don't like each other" shocker..

It is of course true that MECO demonstrated their ignorance in failing to respect the Christian belief that Islam is the wrong route to salvation, by calling it self-righteousness.

Yet by blogging in a way which belittles Muslims' belief in the Prophet Mohammed - which teaches that Christanity is the wrong route to salvation - you have proven yourself capable of the same level of ignorance.

Clearly, the old English doctrine of "I shall agree to disagree" is sorely lacking in modern Oxford!

3 September 2008 at 00:42  
Anonymous Sabina said...

Just once, will people stand up and tell these radical Muslims to GET STUFFED!?

3 September 2008 at 01:21  
Blogger Dr.D said...

I think Cranmer has erred seriously in referring to this jerk as "the good doctor." In what respect is he good? Was this intended to be irony? That is certainly not the way I usually understand that phrase to be used.

muzlims will find a way to take offense at anything, no matter what it is. They are the permanently aggrieved.

3 September 2008 at 02:39  
Anonymous Brita said...

And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among those dark Satanic Mills.

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire,
Bring me my spear, Oh, Clouds unfold,
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental strife,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
'Til we have built Jerusalem,
In England's green and pleasant land."

Cranmer fought the Enemy, as did Alfred, Aelfric, and Wulfstan before him. I agree with the poster who said Your Grace should get incandescent more often - we need leadership in this country, and we need faith in our Faith. That Faith is not and never was Islam: our sacred books are those of Christ and the Jews. For a good fifteen hundred years, until the foreigners corrupted our young and our institutions, we all knew that this is a Christian land. If we now have no right to practice our own religion here...if we do not insist on our right to practice it here, indeed, if we do not resist the encroachment of the false prophets Mohamed and Marx - then I think Wulfstan would have said that God is angry with us. He would have said that is why He is letting them and the euSSR destroy everything about us: including our beautiful, priceless, precious, unique Oxford.

We know that Blake wasn't the first to envisage a New Jerusalem in England. And we know he was a visionary. I'm beginning to wonder - what exactly did he see?

3 September 2008 at 03:56  
Anonymous Brita said...

P. S. Small as the offering is, I would like to dedicate my posting to Gregory the Great, who sent St. Augustine to Canterbury in 596 AD. I believe September 3rd is the Feast Day of Pope Gregory (Kelly, Oxford Dictionary of Popes. OUP 1988; 67).

3 September 2008 at 04:08  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kill all disbelievers, whereever you find them

beat your wifes, till they obey

kill all, who work on the sabbat

kill all, who are gay

hatespeech? no. Bible/quran.


3 September 2008 at 07:02  
Blogger Hiraeth said...

Of course, what anonymous' rather odd rant demonstrates is the awful tendency of people to use really bad words about people with whom one happens to disagree. The problem with his position is that it is no more tolerant than that of the theocrat, whether Christian or Muslim. For the record, I would not agree with any one of his little propositions, which I suppose the dear boy fondly believes that all Christians believe. And I would defend my position from the Bible.

For the record, religion is not poison, hate is. That hate which shivels the soul: 'Love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.'

What is really so awful with the story is that the Muslim chap was not taken to one side after his complaint and informed that in this country everyone has a right to pray, and to call others to do so.

I believe that Islam is a false path to heaven, and that Mohammed was deceived, just as the Muslim believes that the Bible is corrupt. But you don't see me picketing the two churches in my area which have been turned into Mosques, nor threatening to incite riots at the woefully misquoted Bible texts in the Islamic tracts I have seen. Because I should not be doing that in love. Neither, however, will I stop praying for the conversion of Muslims, because to do that would also show a lack of love.

3 September 2008 at 07:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wherever Christ is preached there will be offence!
Because people will do anything to avoid the Truth.
Look to abraham, his two sons isaac and ishmael, one (Isaac) the son of Gods promise, the other Ishmael the result of human works.

3 September 2008 at 07:33  
Blogger Tomrat said...

Your Grace,

Open Doors have come to preach at our little church many a time; their mission best summed up by the following phrase I lifted from their home page:

"Open Doors provides Bibles, Christian literature, training and practical support to the Persecuted Church worldwide. We are the world's largest outreach to persecuted Christians, working in the most high-risk places on earth."

It appears though that Dr Hargey may actually have a point if looked at in context:

"They also say that each year there are incredible stories about how God answers these prayers, revealing Himself to Muslims around the world, and bringing many to faith in Jesus."

As you well know your grace apostasy isn't looked too kindly upon by Islam; even a moderate muslim - even a militant Christian would get angry about someone poaching from their religion, right or wrong.

I am perpelexed by Open Doors own comments here:

"A spokesman denied the meeting targeted Muslims, and said its aim was to reduce fear of Islam"

The reason turning to Christ is such a big thing in Muslim countries is because of the penalty for apostasy in Islam; they will try to kill, torture and persecute you for such an act; Open Doors could've used Radio Oxford to point out these rather striking home truths.

For any members of Open Doors reading this action is a slap in the face to all those individuals you have touched in countries with real persecution; I have this for you:

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 1:16

3 September 2008 at 08:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us pray that the illuminating light of Christ's wisdom and love shines on us all - you, I and Dr Hargey.

3 September 2008 at 09:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said cranmer, shout it loud maybe its time for christians to unite and be of one voice surely 70% can be heard louder than the 3%?

3 September 2008 at 09:28  
Anonymous matt said...

I had always thought Open Doors to be an exemplary organisation, and had assumed that the leadership of St Aldates to have a bit of backbone, but apparently not. Doesn't do evangelical Christianity in Britain much service when their leaders are publically apologising for the message of salvation through faith in Jesus exclusively that is intrinsically offensive, especially to muslims.

Also, surely during Ramadam Doctor Hargey could take a break from scouring the internet for "offence" which he can use to justify his position and maybe contemplate the hypocrisy of his statements?

3 September 2008 at 09:40  
Anonymous Rumbold said...


Dr. Hargey has frequently spoken out against Islamist extremism and backward tribal practices:




Also, it is wrong to suggest that the burying alive of five women in Baluchistan was for "for the glory of Allah." Do you have any evidence of the religious overtones of this? Even the defends of this act take of cultural/tribal norms, not religious ones. And the reason the murderer has been protected is not because of Islamic loyalty, but because he is the brother of a senior PPP figure:


3 September 2008 at 10:26  
Anonymous the recusant said...

To assuage Your Graces incandescent rage I think you will appreciate this:

A few interesting points about this story. St. Aldate was Bishop of Gloucester about 600, he is reported to have roused the countryside to resist pagan invasion forces. The irony is delicious.

Also the Sunday 31st August of the proposed day of prayer actually titled ‘Reducing the fear of Islam, increasing love for Muslims’ is the feast day of St. Raymond Nonnatus

Raymond was born at Portella, Catalonia, Spain. He was delivered by caesarean operation when his mother died in childbirth. Hence his name non natus (not born). He joined the Mercedarians under St. Peter Nolasco at Barcelona. He succeeded Peter as chief ransomer and went to Algeria to ransom slaves. He remained as hostage for several slaves when his money ran out and was sentenced to be impaled when the governor learned that he had converted several Mohammedans. He escaped the death sentence because of the ransom he would bring, but was forced to run the gauntlet. He was then tortured for continuing his evangelizing activities but was ransomed eight months later by Peter Nolasco. On his return to Barcelona in 1239, he was appointed Cardinal by Pope Gregory IX, but died at Cardona a short distance from Barcelona the next year while on the way to Rome. He was canonized in 1657. He is the patron saint of expectant mothers and midwives because of the nature of his own birth. Although his mother died in labor, Raymond miraculously survived the ordeal. His feast day is August 31.

‘Converted several Mohammedans’, perhaps they had more to fear than they let on!

3 September 2008 at 10:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace - referring to your post of 22.34 Sep 2 - churches (like mosques?) are public buildings; that's why they don't pay rates. Anyone can enter provided they behave themselves. Also I would remind your grace that you yourself invited Christians to pray for the conversion of "jews, turks, infidels and heretics" on Good Friday.

3 September 2008 at 11:42  
Anonymous Yokel said...

@ Rumbold.
Regarding Hargey's alleged stance against Islamist extremism and backward tribal practices, methinks you should brush up on your understanding of Taquiyya - the Islamicly sanctioned lying to the Kuffar when it would advance the cause of Islam.

Regarding your challenge concerning the burying alive of 5 females protesting aginst forced marriage of juveniles:"Do you have any evidence of the religious overtones of this?", are you unaware that there is no distinction between religion and non-religion in Islam?

There is widespread ignorance of the real Islam, compared with the sanitised stuff fed by Dhimmis to a credulous Western leadership. Try Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch for starters, and progress from there.

3 September 2008 at 11:45  
Anonymous Andy said...

Your Grace,

I would not choose the leader or join any made up faith as I don't believe in a god. However, I imagine someone like Elton John with a running mate like Fern Cotton could be a hit in the UK.

As you have form in making up new religions, who would you choose?


3 September 2008 at 12:02  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I pity anyone caught up in a religious system.They are on a treadmill with no assurance of salvation!
Rightousness and salvation are a free gift obtained through faith in Jesus Christ.
Religious systems are a bondage! Jesus came to set the captives free! We should be shouting this from the rooftops!

3 September 2008 at 13:28  
Blogger Gerv said...

I wrote to both St. Aldate's and Open Doors. and received a reply from Open Doors. Here is the exchange:

Subject: Joint Statement with Open Doors

The "joint statement" issued by St. Aldate's and Open Doors mentioned here:
does not seem to be on either of your websites (perhaps you might fix
that?), but if this quote:

"Thus we would emphasise that it was not a meeting targeted at Muslims.
Before the event we emphasised that we were not denigrating Islam or
criticising Muslim beliefs."

is accurate then what on earth is going on? This implies that
criticising Muslim beliefs would have been something to apologise for if
you had done it. But isn't the gospel of Jesus Christ an explicit
criticism of (among others) Muslim belief as incorrect?

Have you been misrepresented by the Oxford Mail? Or does your joint
statement show a disappointing lack of courage in your convictions? :-(
It would be both very sad and very uncharacteristic if so.


And the reply:

Dear Gervase

Thank you for your email.

You will notice that in our statement we chose our words very carefully. We deliberately did
not apologise. We said ‘We regret that offence has been taken . .’ implying we do not change our

In fact we are grateful to MECO for promoting the fact that many Muslims are coming to faith in

As a result of this feature, there will also be a story in the Church of England Newspaper, and we are
hoping this will may be picked up by the national media.

The event was very successful and we are very clear we will not be intimidated by Islam, but that we
will love Muslims.

Every blessing


Paul A Tew
Supporter Relations Director

3 September 2008 at 14:01  
Blogger mckenzie said...

Wow! Your Grace has lightened up my day beyond description. I have just returned home from work to read this post, and all the activity it has generated.
My faith grows stronger in the belief that God is working miracles in our nation. I thank God for your life, and hold the ultimate respect for your faith, courage and wisdom.

God Bless.

PS. Gay Christians with Muslim partners are very confused people, and should consider what it is that they wish to be.

3 September 2008 at 16:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

we appoligice while this is what they do:


3 September 2008 at 18:19  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

Good post your grace,it is high time that Christians stood up for thier religion,instead of hiding behind it,and making excuses for thier grovelling cowardice.As for tollerance,that is the disease that brought us to this point of having to defend our religion and our country,christ may have said turn the other cheek,but he did not say crawl on your belly and apologise for offending the intollerant,in the name of god when will you people grow some guts!

3 September 2008 at 19:49  
Anonymous Snoopy said...

Orthodoxy for the World!

3 September 2008 at 21:07  
Blogger A S Grey said...

As a future member of Oxford and a Christian I despair of such news.

But I feel my response should be to pray even more for Muslims. (And I apologise in advance for any offence showing Christian agape to Muslims may cause, particularly if I do so during Ramadan).

3 September 2008 at 23:59  
Anonymous len said...

This is a spiritual battle and the Spirit of Truth will prevail.
Why?, because you cannot change the truth.
Jesus Christ said" I AM the way, the truth, and the life.

4 September 2008 at 07:49  
Anonymous Rumbold said...


"Regarding Hargey's alleged stance against Islamist extremism and backward tribal practices, methinks you should brush up on your understanding of Taquiyya - the Islamicly sanctioned lying to the Kuffar when it would advance the cause of Islam."

So Hargey is a sleeper agents for Islamists eh? Why did he choose to reveal himself now then?

"Regarding your challenge concerning the burying alive of 5 females protesting aginst forced marriage of juveniles:"Do you have any evidence of the religious overtones of this?", are you unaware that there is no distinction between religion and non-religion in Islam?"

There is arguably no difference between the state and religion in Islam (no render unto Caesar clause), but given that none of the murderers have justified their actions by Islamic law, it is difficult to see this as anything other than a tribal practice (which was used as a defence).

"There is widespread ignorance of the real Islam, compared with the sanitised stuff fed by Dhimmis to a credulous Western leadership. Try Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch for starters, and progress from there."

They sound like fine, unbiased sites.

4 September 2008 at 11:11  
OpenID sioe said...

Those people not wanting sharia law in England please come to the the "No Sharia Here!" demo on 11th September between 18.00 and 20.00 outside Lambeth Palace organised by Stop Islamisation Of Europe.

See the press release for details on SIOE's site.

Please do not succumb to the worst human failing - assuming your assumption is fact. Check out out motto and what we disallow before making a judgement.

4 September 2008 at 14:56  
Anonymous KEVIN said...

Because Roman civilisation perished through barbarian invasions, we are perhaps too much inclined to think that that is the only way a civilisation can die.
If the lights that guide us ever go out, they will fade little by little, as if of their own accord...
We therefore should not console ourselves by thinking that the barbarians are still a long way off. Some peoples may let the torch be snatched from their hands, but others stamp it out themselves.

Alexis de Tocqueville
Democracy in America

The lesson for us is that, even if we fear that Britain has turned it's back on it's foundational beliefs and it's civic virtues, we certainly cannot afford to give up on this country or to lose hope of a spiritual renewal. We are under tremendous pressures; we are confronted by a level of social disintegration that exceeds anything we have ever experienced in this nation. Our challenge today is not to run from conflict but to engage in it.
We should also remember that in the parable of the talents, as spoken by Jesus in the Gospel of Luke, the landowner tells his servants to go forth into the vineyard and "occupy till I come." That should be a vital lesson for every Christian today. Jesus Christ did not warn us to run away, flee to the hills, or to hide our eyes, but to go into the fields and bring forth the harvest.

If we have to look back, then it should be to those who went before us and laid the foundations of our culture. We are really not all that different from those men and women of the past, and we can profit a great deal from their achievements and their failures if we are willing to listen and learn from them.

4 September 2008 at 19:20  
Blogger Alan said...

Well written article and said all I would have wanted to say.

If only the martyrs of old knew what kind of Christianity they were giving their lives for!

10 September 2008 at 14:31  
Blogger knowabit said...

As a Baptist minister I never thought I would so wholeheartedly agree with an Anglican Archbishop, well said my brother. There is clearly a great deal of difference in the faith of those who were willing to be burned to death rather than deny Christ as many have in our history, compared to those who dare to even insinuate any form of apology or implied regret for any offence taken because of a prayer meeting in a Church. By all means apologize your heart out, but not as Christian for goodness sake. How can a genuine born again Christian possibly be tempted to do such a thing. Shame on them.

While I am concerned by may aspects of Islam, my concern for modern Christianity is far greater. One thing Moslems show many Christians up on is in their convictions. They may be wrong as we know it but at least they are committed to the beliefs. I just wish all the pseudo Christians out there either start believing that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, or would find another label for themselves and stop dishonoring the name of Jesus

11 September 2008 at 06:43  
Blogger knowabit said...

As for Ash’s …
A small point though. As a Christian gay man whose partner is Muslim, we are both nice, moderate people.

Sorry Ash, but its not that small a point. Don’t get hung up on your homosexuality, your no bigger a sinner than your average unrepentant adulterer of fornicator. Its too bad though that the Bible says that
Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, will inherit the kingdom of God ( for example, 1 Cor 6:9 if your interested)
You can call yourself a Christian, but that itself will not make you one. The bible also says that we will know who we are by the fruit our lives display. And according to the bible neither homosexual or any other immorality is fruit that should or indeed can be seen in a real Christian. If you think this is hate talk, your wrong. Please do what you must do if you want to spend eternity with Jesus, repent of your sin along with any heterosexual fornicator or adulterer out there who are also deceived into thinking they are saved Christians. So repent and be saved while you can, all it will cost you is sin.

11 September 2008 at 06:50  
Anonymous len said...

Surely the whole point of being a born again christian is being a new creation, born of God not of the flesh!
God did not stick the label (christian) on the old corrupt fallen, creation, he killed it on the cross!
IF you are a new creation you are born of God, and should reckon your old nature dead!!

11 September 2008 at 07:57  
Blogger Joshua said...

I had no idea that these Sericans had taken over the UK... all I can do is laugh... here goes... HA HA HA... You have no "Right to bear arms" and you invite the Moors to your doorstep, sounds a little like what happened in Troy all those many years ago... I can hear it now... "I know what we'll do; disarm them (tell 'em it's for security reasons) then invite the Muslim Horde to Trafalgar" Here is a quote from an Englishmen turned patriot Alexander Hamilton that I think is very apropos...

"Safety from external danger is the most powerful director of national conduct. Even the ardent love of liberty will, after a time, give way to its dictates. The violent destruction of life and property incident to war, the continual effort and alarm attendant on a state of continual danger, will compel nations the most attached to liberty to resort for repose and security to institutions which have a tendency to destroy their civil and political rights. To be more safe, they at length become willing to run the risk of being less free."
Federalist Papers #8 paragraph 4- Alexander Hamilton

13 September 2008 at 19:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can understaand Muslims being offended by the use of the term call to prayer and by this taking place during Ramadan. The Christian response is surely to politely say I'm sorry if you are offended by this by the words call to prayer are traditional Christian terminology also. It is the duty of Christians to pray for others. In a free society sometimes we have to accept that other people's actions can offend us - as the actions of Muslims soemtimes offend Christians.

To carry on as people have done here is not Christian.

15 September 2008 at 08:58  

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