Sunday, November 02, 2008

Camden Conservatives demand Christ be restored to Christmas

Or, according to the National Secular Society, ‘Camden Tories try to impose Christianity on the whole borough’.

Conservative councillors in the London Borough of Camden have put forward a motion to the Council that demands that the Council respect and maintain the religious traditions of the country, and ceases to pander to the PC obsessives who purport to find racial and religious offence under every cornflake.

The motion reads:

This Council believes that attempts to airbrush out Christmas, one of the main festivals of Christianity, which is still the biggest religion of England, because of the notion that in some way it is offensive to other faiths, is insulting to Christians and British religious minorities who are libelled by insinuation.

The Council feels that this idea seems to be motivated by the wish to divide the people of this country, by emphasising, inventing and fabricating artificial disagreements, which cause needless resentment among religious groups.

This Council notes that, whilst Christianity is not the only religion to have a major winter celebration, Christmas is none-the-less one of the most valued holidays in the Christian calendar. This Council feels that as a nation we are losing sight of the real reason for celebrating the festive period and that, as divorce rates soar and the traditional family breaks down, any attempt to down play a festival which at its heart celebrates the family as an institution can only further damage a society of which many parts are broken.

This Council also believes that the renaming of Christmas as a “Winter Festival” or any other non-religious nomenclature is part of the systematic erosion of Christianity in modern life, which itself is the cause of the loss of our sense of national identity and cohesion.

This Council acknowledges that the ethical foundation of our legal and political system is rooted in Christianity and should not be ashamed to acknowledge that we are a Christian nation, after all, how is one supposed to respect any other culture, when one doesn't treasure their own.

Therefore this Council resolves to put "Merry Christmas" on all its greetings cards, official letters and websites issued in the month of December.

Good for them.

Cranmer looks forward to Parliament doing the same.

It is curious that no ethnic or religious minority group has actually formally requested that Christmas be adpated to accommodate their sensitivites. And it is also curious that the driving force for change appears to be the National Secular Society, which, Cranmer guesses, is composed largely of the white, middle class who are intent on exploiting other faiths for their own faithless ends. It is heartening indeed that a Conservative group of councillors is willing to confront this nonsense head-on.


Blogger McKenzie said...

I am having a bad day today. The full realisation of how bad things have become in my world has rained down upon me.

In America there is the extreme likelihood that a black president will be elected very soon; Barrack Obama, the black son of a single parent, who has strong Muslim links, and who's aunt is an illegal immigrant living in the equivalent of a council house in the USA.

In my own country we have a bankrupt nation and a Prime Minister who has gone cap-in-hand scrounging from the Arabs. We have a decadent and corrupt political system made up of three main parties which are so alike that there is very little, if anything, to chose from.

The main opposition party seems totally at odds as to how it can form any kind of new policies which will have any influence on their dire situation. Last week I read stories involving George Osbourne and the Mandy Liar trying to get a Russian Gangster to bung them a few quid on the sly, like a couple of desperate smack heads reeling from stomach cramps and withdrawal symptoms.

God help us. The Winter Festival Looms and all things fiscal are depressingly tight. But my confidence in the British people is nil, they are like the flounder on the end of a brutally effective fishing lure: DOOMED!

2 November 2008 at 11:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Morning?

2 November 2008 at 12:00  
Anonymous judith said...

I'm an agnostic, but the Secular Society is just being silly over this.

I live in a country that has an Established Church, the Head of State is a Christian, and the history of the country is bound up with Christianity, together with valuable contributions from the Jewish community.

I respect that ethos, and as long as no-one in power attempts to force religious observance of any kind upon me (which this Motion does not propose), I will continue to be grateful that the UK gave sanctuary to my parents and grandparents.

2 November 2008 at 12:35  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Multi-faith prayers to be considered by the House of Lord's procedure committee.

2 November 2008 at 12:46  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Strict Christians don't celebrate Christmas,a festival of pagan origins.It didn't use to be a holiday in Scotland.

2 November 2008 at 12:58  
Anonymous notusuallyoffended(until now) said...


Unless you can qualify why Obama's skin colour makes him an unsuitable candidate for the US presidency, you had better remove your post. Similarly, your comment about Brown going 'cap in hand' to the 'Arabs' is also unqualified and therefore also racist.

2 November 2008 at 13:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can still celebrate the birth of christ at christmas, whether we be strict christians or not its an opportunity to encourage people to think about God his love and salvation to mankind. also a time to encourage family time which is a good thing.No reason why msulim should be offended by this since they beleive in jesus and the virgin birth. I think it is atheists and far left liberal people who want to wipe God out.

2 November 2008 at 13:30  
Anonymous billy said...

manfarang said...
Strict Christians don't celebrate Christmas,a festival of pagan origins.It didn't use to be a holiday in Scotland.

02 November 2008 12:58

Just what is a strict Christian? A Jehova's Witness, who many would argue are not Christian at all but base their faith on misinterpretation of the Bible? Are you putting forward Scotland as an example of a Christian nation as opposed to England, Wales and Ireland who do celebrate Christmas?

2 November 2008 at 13:31  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr McKenzie,

His Grace has had cause to remove two of your posts in recent weeks (for gratuitously offensive language), and is minded to do so to the above unless, as Notusuallyoffended(until now) has politely asked, you can adduce reasoning as to why Senator Obama's skin colour should bar him from becoming President of the United States of America.

You have until 6.00pm.

2 November 2008 at 13:41  
Blogger McKenzie said...

My statement will qualify it's self as the the nightmare unfolds.

In the meantime, please feel free to get offended.

You may however explain to me where I said that his skin colour made him an unsuitable candidate. The colour of his skin is however a very controversial subject, and I will not omit it's mention just to sate people's perverse appetite for political correctness.

As for feeling embarrassed about one's Prime Minister scrounging from the Arabs, I put this down to pride more than racism. I will say that I intensely dislike the Arabs, but I am not asking anyone else to join me in my personal feelings: I am no diplomat, neither do I speak for the rest of my nation.

(I tread a thin wire in here because His Grace will delete me at every opportunity should I dare to play with His patients).

2 November 2008 at 13:55  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The early Christians and modern day Presbyterians.

2 November 2008 at 13:57  
Anonymous notory said...

You should include Oxford in this madness. See Oxford mail report

2 November 2008 at 14:26  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr McKenzie,

His Grace refers to his bottom line in the right-hand column. He has no time for political correctness, and states quite clearly that no-one has the right to not be offended.

Please do not, therefore, misrepresent His Grace on this matter.

That one of this blog's communicants has found offence in your statement is not in itself cause for the removal of your contribution. But it is the clearest inference of your first statement that Senator Obama's skin colour is a factor in your disapproval. You do, after all, mention it twice.

Incidentally, His Grace is not a doctor, and thereforee has no patients.

2 November 2008 at 14:45  
Blogger Damo Mackerel said...

I'm delighted to see the National Secular Society getting offended by this. Will people now see how stupid that these secularists are? Eventually, just like Dawkins, they'll turn themselves into some sort of a caricature. Keep it up secs and daws and give us all a good laugh.

2 November 2008 at 14:48  
Blogger Jenny said...


I will 'out' myself as 'notusuallyoffended' as I've lost all patience now.

I suggest you re-read your initial posting again. In case you still can't see your error, I will paraphrase for you;

'The full realisation of just how bad things have become...has rained down on me...a black president will be elected very soon; Barack Obama, the black son of...'

That doesn't do violence to your original words. The meaning to the ordinary reader is quite clear, that you believe things have got bad because a black man will become president of the US. If that was your meaning, you are racist. If that wasn't your meaning, you've expressed yourself extremely badly.

As for your comments about intensely disliking Arabs (what, ALL of them? or only the ones you haven't met?) that's outright racism unless, as I've said before, you can qualify why all Arabs should have warranted your intense dislike.

If you can't see the difference between an unqualified personal opinion (otherwise known as a prejudice) and an intelligent argument, your local college will have courses in essay writing, which is the place to start. Full marks go to His Grace for his patience in allowing you time to come up with a justification for your statement. I hope that between now and 6pm you see sense.

2 November 2008 at 14:57  
Blogger Johnny Norfolk said...

It is self loathing Britains that do this. I support Camden for fighting back

2 November 2008 at 15:01  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I suppose I can only explain myself by way of having just finished reading the News of The World, which mentions his skin colour on more than two occasions in several paragraphs.

He is indeed black, which is indeed a controversial subject at this moment in time. This I believe will cause many problems for the world: don't ask me to qualify this because I cannot be bothered. Your Grace has said much about Obama which will suffice for such qualification. Racism is about the belief that one race is either superior or inferior to another: a belief which I do not hold; all human beings are equal, or at least have the potential to be. My dislike of Arabs is nothing to do with skin or any other physical attribute.

I personally feel like the victim of racism in my own country when I am silenced at every opportunity by politically correct fanatics (ie notusuallyoffended), so I resort to controversial language, rather like a spoilt child who can't get his own way.
Maybe you do have patients to contend with?
Your Grace does much complaining, the sort of which pleases me greatly, and He is of a much higher standard of education; in comparison to my own which probably causes much embarrassment (hopefully).

2 November 2008 at 15:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm worried about BO being the next president of the US, but not because he's black. Hopefully, being a son of a single parent might make him more worthy of being president, much more so than being from a wealthy family. No, I'm worried for other reasons, most of which have been already mentioned by Your Grace in his blog, so I won't repeat here. I don't think the US really know what they are letting themselves in for. God help us all.

2 November 2008 at 15:51  
Blogger Jenny said...


I am not politically correct, far from it. Nor does His Grace 'complain'. Rather, His Grace adds intelligent, well-thought-out comment to discourse on political/religious matters. And he has the wisdom to change his mind in the light of evidence, as he did recently regarding Cardinal O'Brien.

As for the News of the World, I wouldn't deign to read such rubbish and suggest you change your reading matter. If they have mentioned Obama's skin colour, this doesn't necessarily make them racist. This would depend in what context it was mentioned.

There is no controversy over Obama's skin colour, but some racist people are making a big deal about it.

2 November 2008 at 15:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace.

regrettably todays blog seems to have deteriorated into a squabble
of primary school proportions, please call 'order' so that we may address the main thrust of your comments.
To the Conservatives whom have had
the courage to tell the don't knows or not sures of the SS to get lost, good luck & God bless I raise a toast of Christmas cheer to them & to Your Grace & pray that their parliamentary counterparts have the courage to
stand firm against the erosion of
the faith in Britain.

2 November 2008 at 15:52  
Blogger McKenzie said...


You are telling me

what I should read
What I should say
What I should think

This is what I have a problem with.

2 November 2008 at 16:28  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I making no more comments on this matter. This has indeed descended into primary school behavior (which is about my level), and I think this post is worthy of far more intelligent particiapnts.

Racist minded people are indeed making a big deal of skin today.

2 November 2008 at 16:38  
Blogger Miss Snuffleupagus said...

'exploiting other faiths for their own faithless ends'

I like that.

2 November 2008 at 16:40  
Anonymous len said...

Why do people want to get rid of God?.(Incidently if you want to get rid of God you must believe in him!)
(john 3:19-21)And this is the condemnation,that the light has come into the world, and the men loved darkness rather than light,because their deeds were evil."For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come into the light,lest his deeds should be exposed."But he who does the truth comes to the light,that his deeds may be clearly seen,that they have been done in God." Halleluyah for anyone promoting Christ-mas ( it might not be the actual date of Christs birth ,but anytime is good to reflect on the Lord Jesus Christ!

2 November 2008 at 16:46  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

Barack Obama is a Democrat who wants to tax and spend the money of other people. He's created a personality cult around himself, one of the most important aspects of this cult is.. his skin colour. So is his skin colour important? I think it is. There is no way he would be able to hypnotise so many people where it not for his skin colour. After all, who could possibly oppose the brilliant opportunity to have the first black president of the U.S.?

So it is clear, B.O.'s skin colour is important, it's one of the most essential things about him for switching off critical debate of this unrepentant red diaper baby, Democrat tax and spend socialist. Obama is the most pernicious development in American politics since Dubya said "You're either with us or against us".

And have you not also heard that the Arab oil magnates follow a little religion called Islam? Do you know how aggressive this religion is? Do you think we should be doing anything to increase it's power? Do you watch any television? Have you seen Undercover Mosque and the wahabbist Saudi infiltration of the mosques?

2 November 2008 at 16:51  
Anonymous evergreen said...

Considering that Obama attended an extremely racist church for 20 years, I am definitely concerned that HE is racist.

2 November 2008 at 17:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great cartoon you have posted here Cranmer. You should have included the 'B' word at the end.

2 November 2008 at 17:36  
Blogger Cranmer said...

His Grace has decided to leave Mr McKenzie's post alone.

It is not that he agrees with the inference, but, in light of the revelation that Mr McKenzie reads the News of the World, and, as Mr Homophobic Horse has pointed out, Senator Obama has constructed his 'change' narrative very much on his skin colour, and, moreover, it appears that Mrs/Miss/Ms Judith did not wish to articulate her argument under her own name, instead chosing to join the race of anonymice who can be and often are irritating, and, further, Mr McKenzie has stated that he does not believe any race to be superior to another, and, even more importantly, the eradication of the word 'black' from common parlance is becoming absurd, it is more important to defend freedom of speech and permit any accused to explain themselves more fully.

This Mr McKenzie has done.

Now, can we return to the topic of His Grace's post?

2 November 2008 at 18:20  
Anonymous British Patriot said...

Perhaps your Grace and other readers are having difficulty accepting the scale of the Treachery that we in the West Face.
These Despots intend setting up their EU Gulag, there is no better way to control the Masses than under the dual Jackboot of a Police state and sharia Law.



Europe is to become Islamic.

2 November 2008 at 19:09  
Anonymous British Patriot said...

your Grace does not appreciate the scale of Treachery we face in the West.



Europe is to become Islamic.

If the men in Green and Brown suits do not do something soon, then the People will have to.

2 November 2008 at 19:12  
Anonymous British Patriot said...

America is not ready for this, neither do they want it.

Americans are being set up for Civil War to Bring it under the Globalists control.

Here is why they did not allow the Public to see Ron Paul.
A new hope

Americans are being set up for civil war.

2 November 2008 at 19:17  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

This might be why Our GOvt is so Anti Christian.

The Elite Devilworshippers.

Govt links to child sacrifice.



2 November 2008 at 19:23  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Our beautiful Christmas - once renowned worldwide.

Our beautiful island - best loved and nurtured by its ancient and indigenous people: whom Christianity has informed since 597, even a little before.

Our beautiful language, which reached new heights partly because of the sixteenth century reforms and developments in which His Grace participated. [I say new - being a huge fan of Old English...]

Our culture of Truth; Justice and fair play; decency; reform to uphold these principles; and even mercy and gentleness.

Yes, I say gentleness: informed and developed by our independent versions of Christianity; fed and nurtured by ideals encapsulated in His Grace's own masterpiece...

All this beauty now at the mercy of ignorance and callousness in the persons of traitors and foreigners. All this now being mistreated in a gulag run by Grendels.

Thank you, Your Grace, for demonstrating how our tradition SHOULD be free to work - in your treatment of the posts on this thread!

2 November 2008 at 19:59  
Anonymous no nonny said...

P.S to the above:

I cannot see why we should be forbidden our own religion, our own culture, indeed our own Christmas: in our own country.

I've said before, and I'll say it again - those who don't like it should get out and go back to the places and ways they like so much better.

They are the ones who promote racism; they are the ones who force upon us their perceptions and religions (including marxism, islam, secularism, and 'french filosofy'). They are the ones who pay tribute to Grendel.

2 November 2008 at 20:10  
Blogger Preacher said...

It seems that certain members of
our community are determined not to rest until they have eradicated the Almighty & brainwashed the rest of us into accepting their perfidious views.
This will never happen as He, as the Alpha & Omega has already written the final chapter, see Revelations 21 verses 5-8.

2 November 2008 at 21:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right. And another thing: why-oh-why have we suddenly taken the goddess Ēostre out of Easter? Surely she too is part of our Anglo-Saxon heritage?

2 November 2008 at 21:50  
Anonymous British Patriot said...

The British must Unite under one flag, or Die, and we must do it now.

2 November 2008 at 22:07  
Anonymous It's time to open your eyes and admit the hideous truth about Westminster said...

We are told we need more people here, yet Westminster has presided over 6 Million abortions so far, they have placed pregnancy 'advice' centres in every town.
Abrtions are soon to be made even easier to attain with the embriology bill.
Mass immigration, mass abortion and a mass sterilisation programme aimed at British Schoolgirls.
It really is time to open your eyes as to what the Socialists and former Communists are up to.

Sterilise British Schhoolgirls

they are creating a new race of People.

I'll spell it out for you all.

G E N O C I D E.

C O M M U N I S M.

E U S S R.

2 November 2008 at 22:19  
Anonymous billy said...

manfarang said...
The early Christians and modern day Presbyterians.

02 November 2008 13:57

The early Christians, in the British Isles, were Celts or Roman citizens of whatever nationality; not Scots, or Picts as they may have been then, nor Presbyterians.

3 November 2008 at 00:24  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

"Our beautiful Christmas - once renowned worldwide.

Our beautiful island - best loved and nurtured by its ancient and indigenous people: whom Christianity has informed since 597, even a little before.

Our beautiful language, which reached new heights partly because of the sixteenth century reforms and developments in which His Grace participated. [I say new - being a huge fan of Old English...]

Our culture of Truth; Justice and fair play; decency; reform to uphold these principles; and even mercy and gentleness.

Yes, I say gentleness: informed and developed by our independent versions of Christianity; fed and nurtured by ideals encapsulated in His Grace's own masterpiece...

All this beauty now at the mercy of ignorance and callousness in the persons of traitors and foreigners. All this now being mistreated in a gulag run by Grendels."

It's so sad. And it's what we're facing.

3 November 2008 at 01:07  
Anonymous healthy Body leads to a healthy mind said...

Your Grace, I understand that the Autumnal air in London is quite refreshing, may I suggest a stroll on Nov the 5th, please invite along any friends and please feel free to pass this onto other Bloggers who may be in need of some excercise.

3 November 2008 at 04:08  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The early Christians throughout the Roman Empire and beyond.The Romans celebrated Saturnalia which was in December.The Church was unable to suppress these celebrations,so it declared,in the fourth century, December 25th(the Winter Soltice on the Julian calendar) to be the date of the birth of Christ

3 November 2008 at 04:14  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enjoyed reading your article. I am glad to see that there are other Camden Conservatives "across the pond". If you are still allowed, keep us in your prayers on this election eve. Keep up the good fight and Merry Christmas!
Ironically, our little town just held our Revolutionary War Field Days event and reenactment. I really thought we were going to defeat Cornwallis this time.
Camden, South Carolina

3 November 2008 at 18:26  
Anonymous judith said...

Your Grace, I'm not sure why you accused me of articulating my argument anonymously - I posted once, and it wasn't an argument, and it was posted, as always, above my real (as on birth certificate) name: Judith (Mrs).

3 November 2008 at 20:57  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Miss/Mrs/Ms Judith,

His Grace humbly apologises.

It was Jenny who posted under a second name. You must forgive His Grace. He has been rather tired of late, and somewhat strained, and having to keep order in the nursery rather tested his patience yesterday.

3 November 2008 at 21:09  
Anonymous judith said...

Undertood and accepted, Sir.

4 November 2008 at 09:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm with Judith 02 November 2008 12:35; except the bit about sanctuary which was not necessary.

4 November 2008 at 10:08  
Blogger dmk said...

The National Secular Society has around 7,000 members.

Their 2008 report (just out) claims that membership is rising, but doesn't give any figures.

They certainly get a lot of attention and airtime for such a small group.

4 November 2008 at 12:21  
Blogger Dissenter said...

Re 'strict Christians don't celebrate Christmas' I'm not sure what a 'strict' Christian is. Would it be someone who actually gouges his eyes out if he looks lustfully at a woman to whom he is not married, a regular churchgoer or just someone who in Christ's name shares his goods with the poor?

Anyway, I used to be a Puritan but in any event am organising a 'Seasonal' music, poetry and prose event in my neighbourhood the Friday before Christmas which will include Victorian eating and drinking songs, Creationist and Gospel carols, and poems by at least one adulterer (Charles Dickens) and an atheist (Thomas Hardy) and there will be plenty of cider, and money raised (I hope) for an African development charity. And some hymns which people can sing or not. 'Strict' Christians and 'strict' atheists may prefer to stay away, but I hope my friends new and old will come.

Christmas has been to some extent ruined by salesmen, overconsumption and rotten TV, but these miseries can be sidestepped and it is still our best festival and it is SOMETHING to do with the incarnation of our precious Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Anyone who doesn't enjoy Christmas, I respect but also pity. Anyone who wants to stop other people enjoying Christmas by snivelling, pettifogging regulation in support of their narrow religious views (especially including the atheist religion) can go stick their head in a bucket of previously digested vegetables.

4 November 2008 at 22:28  
Blogger Manfarang said...

At the time of the Commonwealth Parliament met on the 25th December and during those times mince pies were illegal(they were baked in the shape of a cross).
The date of the birth of Christ is not stated in the Bible but if the Nativity stories are to believed it couldn't have been in December,shepherds don't watch their flocks in the Holy Land in the middle of winter.

6 November 2008 at 03:47  
Blogger Manfarang said...

....are to be believed....

6 November 2008 at 03:52  

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