Thursday, November 20, 2008

Christians on the BNP list? How broad can a church be?

Cranmer could have made use of inverted commas, and dispensed judgement upon these ‘Christians’ or upon the ‘BNP list’, and even upon ‘church’ before even beginning this post. But there is something a little more disconcerting about the media furore surrounding the very public disclosure of the BNP’s membership list than that there appears to be a smattering of reverends upon it.

But let us deal with that first.

Five ‘reverends’ are listed as BNP members, and one is specifically identified as belonging to the Church of England. Another is identified as a member of the Assemblies of God, another is a Quaker, one is Evangelical, one a Baptist or United Reformed, and there is even a ‘practising Catholic’. Quite a few are described (presumably by themselves) as ‘Born Again’.

Just how broad can a church be?

While accepting that one’s self-categorisation as a ‘reverend’ or a ‘Christian’ or as having affiliation to any particular church does not necessarily make it so, the delusion is sufficiently concerning to merit a degree of scrutiny.

The BNP believes that the white indigenous population of the United Kingdom should enjoy greater rights over the immigrants; indeed, it espouses deportation and enforced repatriation of the non-white non-British, and has a decidedly un-Christian view of them.

The Lord taught not only that we must obey the commandment to love our neighbour, but also our enemy (Mt 5:43). This neighbour is plainly everyone. He told the parable of the Good Samaritan (Lk 10:25-37), which the BNP might consider is an exhortation to set aside ethnic and religious differences in the expression of love and compassion. Further, if there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gal 3:28), then for Christians ethnic identity is subsumed to the notions of equality and all being one in Christ.

If Jesus were ministering to members of the BNP, he might just remind them that Asians are their neighbour, tell them the parable of the Good Muslim, and remind them that in Christ there is no white, black or brown, for all are one in Christ.

Cranmer shall leave matters of salvation to the Lord, but he shall say unequivocally that it is not possible to be serious about Christian discipleship or the Great Commission whilst simultaneously holding membership of a group which is antithetical to the concept of ‘church’. If eating food offered to idols (1Cor 8) might be deemed a hurdle to those who are weak in their faith, it beggars belief that an Asian Christian would perceive Christian BNP members as the embodiment of the love of Christ. The BNP efforts to establish the 'Christian Council of Britain' to ‘’represent Christian values and the Christian Heritage of the country’ is an affront to all that is Christian.

But...

There are now calls for the dismissal of all those who are identified as doctors, nurses, teachers or the police.

This is repugnant and smacks of totalitarianism. Indeed, the prospect of BNP members being elected to office is even being used as a reason to dispense with elections.

The United Kingdom is a democracy, the BNP is a legally-constituted political party: it operates within the law, and has a message which some find attractive and a sizeable majority finds repugnant.

But so does Respect, or Veritas (does it still exist?), or the DUP or Sinn Fein, and some unenlightened ones might even find Conservative policy repugnant.

But if those in the public services ought to be sacked for holding discriminatory views, should a Christian who believes salvation is to be found in Jesus alone be permitted to teach children? Should a doctor who believes homosexuality to be a sin be in general practice? Can a member of Opus Dei be Equalities Minister?

It is a cornerstone of liberal democracy that the personal-politico-religious can co-exist with the public-religio-political while being at odds with each other. The alternative, as demanded by some politicians of the Left and vast sections of the media, is for the thought-police to patrol our religious consciences and political opinions, to ensure that both conform to the prevailing religio-political zeitgeist.

28 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those people who were doing a good job before their names were discovered on the bnp list have suddenly become monsters who cant teach, doctor, nurse or whatever job they have. We have a black police association, we have terrorists who are muslims should we refuse these people? just in case? There would be uproar if we did!! i suspect once again white people are fair game. where i am not in favour of the bnp in the absence of other parties caring about our britishness (englishness) i can see why people are getting desperate, we do after all have snp party do we not? It is a breach of human rights for anyone to be sacked over this.

20 November 2008 at 09:13  
Anonymous martin sewell said...

As usual, Your Grace's instincts are right even when the outcome discomforts.

As Christians we can have no truck with racism, however as subjects of Her Majesty in a non-theocratic country we have benefitted through tolerance from and towards those with whom there is fundamental disagreement.

In the position of secular "progressives" there is often a rather unpleasant streak of aggresive "compulsorary liberalism" which is antithetical to the true interests of a democratic entity. Those of us who have a sense of history need to articulate the paradox that sometimes people have the right to be plain wrong, and we have to live with that, so long as wrong thought does not result in unlawful action.

I myself have both debated on a public platform with members of the old National Front and given evidence against them in Court. Counter-intuitively they appeared to have accepted both with a degree of good grace. I think they recognised straight dealing in both aspects, which I suppose offers a modicum of hope.

Christians will of course be familiar with the idea of Judgement following the exercise of Free Will.

20 November 2008 at 09:27  
Anonymous Rebel Saint said...

In the current climate, it might be reasonably argued that the overall package of policies offered by the BNP is the lesser of several evils.

Indeed, when presented with a list of policies from unidentified political parties, it is not surprising (to me at least) that many in the public align themselves with the BNP.

The BNP are subject to immense prejudice. I have no doubt if Jesus were around he would happily be found dining with them, and with paedophiles and other contemporary 'tax collectors'.

20 November 2008 at 09:43  
Blogger McKenzie said...

As a member of the BNP I can not argue with His Grace's reasoning here. I consider my self to be a Christian, I have firm belief, but I am a weak Christian in that I do not attend any church.
I also believe that the modern Labour Government has many many anti Christian practices. Like I said, I completely agree with His Grace's views about loving each and all. However, I personally feel let down, disenfranchised and alienated from the entire political process, and until this changes, you will continue to feel my finger poking you in the eyes.
I have reached a point where it makes no difference what people think. I have no racist views. I have once had a black girl friend. But you will find that there are many black people who will hold BNP sympathies. Yes it is all very mixed up, but you have Labour to thank for this bloody shambles.
I would very much like a Conservative Government to over, but where are they?
Anyway, watch out for my fingers because they are coming a-poking after you.
To all you perfect Christians, enjoy Heaven: the rest of you I will see in Hell!

20 November 2008 at 10:43  
Anonymous spartacus said...

It is all very well having grand intellectual views, opinions and theories, but the rest of us out here, who just simply wish to work, rest and play, want no more than a fair deal and a voice and opinion of OUR humble existence. We are TOLD how we are to live, every aspect of our existence is now printed somewhere in ink for us to refer to. Yes OK the political process involves electing representatives who will make decisions for us, but we are being dictated to now on every thought, deed and action.
Someone made reference yesterday to Atlas Shrugged, well this sums up the present dilemma in the country. The intelligentsia are on strike it seems.
The more you try to gag the BNP, the stronger their resolve will get. The main reason why they are attracting increasing numbers is simply because these people are being ignored: TOLD TO SHUT UP! This is a slightly flawed policy is it not?
There seems to be two basic reactions to the rapid growth of the BNP. One is to demonise them as nazi's and thugs, and the other is to try and be as condescending and smug as possible towards them. I have to tell you that it is not sour grapes when I tell you that you are fools in both ways of thinking. These are alienated and disenfranchised people, and your response is akin to burying your head in the sand.
Unfortunately, our political process is not geared up for the changes that need to happen that will prevent the BNP from gaining systematic momentum. Atlas Shrugged. Maybe it will all come out in the wash, but not without the inevitable by-product of dirty water.
The warnings have been loud and frequent, and also ignored.
Does anybody here still believe that if you ignore them they will simply go away?

20 November 2008 at 11:38  
Blogger Julian said...

Should a Christian be a member of the BNP? IMO no. In much the same way that a Christian should not be a member of the current Labour party. In the former case the wickedness of discriminating against others based on the colour of their skin renders any other 'pro-Christian' BNP policies irrelevant. In the case of the latter the Labour government's love affair with the culture of death (specifically abortion and HFE bill) renders any other pro-Christian policy positions irrelevant.

It's becoming increasingly difficult for Christians in Britain to support any mainstream political party. Once the entire political class embraces utilitarianism as its core philosophy (as it seems to be doing) then a fundamental disconnect will form between governments and Christian voters.

20 November 2008 at 11:53  
Blogger Stop Common Purpose said...

I look forward to the day when Common Purpose produces a list of its members. You can find out more about Common Purpose here: www.stopcp.com

20 November 2008 at 11:59  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

UN Covenant on civil and political rights.article 17;"no-one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy,family,home or correspondence,nor to unlawful attacks upon his honour and reputation".article 19.1;"Every-one shall have the right to hold opinions without interference".19.2;"Every-one shall have the right to freedom of expression;this right shall include freedom to seek,recieve and impart information and ideas of all kinds,regardless of frontiers,either orally,in writing or in print,in the form of art,or through any other media of his choice".The eussr convention says much the same thing,but apparently this only applies to some people,who are endorsed by the ruling ideology.there was a time when we English were mature enough to accept that not all people adhere to the same political doctrine,and we left them to it,now what is demanded is a whitch burning,what happened to "tolerance"?It seems that we can tollerate being bombed,violent awful crimes,being replaced demographically,being spied upon,dragooned into a totalitarian fascist state,deowned in a sunami of the dregs of the world,yet let some-one say that they object and the tryanny of conditioned public opinion does everything it can to destroy its fellow countryman,i do not think that any-one on this blog is stupid enough to believe that what is being foisted upon us is even remotely desirable,for no sane man would welcome the extintion of his own kind and his progeny,and yet here we are four legs good,two legs bad,the red guard rules,and if you will not adopt the established cant ,we will hound you from your employment,come round and break your windows,terrorise your children,attack you,and when we infringe your human rights ,its for your own good.How many Christians are there in the army,navy and air force?

20 November 2008 at 13:09  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

I am sure a Christian who has enough love to turn a blind eye to the changing demographics, should also have enough love to turn a blind eye to its reversal.

Equality in action, christians need not take sides, but may dance a jig on the scales when looking a little unbalanced, dance then wherever you may be :)

20 November 2008 at 14:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I smell a rat. How come this BNP list has just suddenly been published? Who is behind this grand expose, I wonder? Is someone up to dirty tricks to frighten the public? Perhaps with an ulterior motive of bringing in the New World Order? Or is the BNP itself behind it all, just wanting extra publicity? It's all very odd. Anyone with any other ideas about this?

20 November 2008 at 14:27  
Blogger Peter O said...

Your Grace,

A year ago I wrote a blog post highlighting how the Christian Council of Britain's theological statement was simply a reworking of the Kuyperian "Spheres" understanding of human authority which was the backbone of apartheid. Your communicants may be interested in reading that post again in the light of the comments above.

The URL is http://www.peter-ould.net/2007/11/06/the-bnp-does-apartheid/

20 November 2008 at 15:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of things I often say to pro-immigration types who espouse a hypocritical and self-serving variety of brotherly love is this: If the of the Punjab were simply replaced with Latin Americans what becomes of the Punjab?

Answer: The Punjab is no more.

That's what we face in Britain with another generation of mass-immigration.

In London this has already come to pass when less than 10% of school pupils are traditional Britons.

So do unto others as you'd have them do to you, judge not lest thee be judged yourself.

With the above in mind, it's safe to say that pro-immigration types, particularly one's from ethnic minorities simply do not accept the golden rule of reciprocity.

I wont vote for the BNP but they are notorious simply because they're the only people who are saying the emperor has no clothes on.

20 November 2008 at 17:08  
Blogger The last cause said...

In a Democratic Society, there is room for every view, the idea that one party is "bad" the other "good" is simplistic in the extreme, to use such ideas is to allow others to shape what one's political outlook should be and to use the weight of society to enforce such views.

Certainly a Christian can be a member of the BNP, however they should also be prepared to defend the BNP's views if they wish to speak in the public square of ideas.

As Chief Justice John Roberts sagely said:

"The answer to hateful speech, is more speech, not less"

20 November 2008 at 17:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's widespread media innuendo, but no evidence to support the alleged 'leak' or it's contents.
Spin and manipulation is labour's chosen method of 'government' - 'rule'.

Would any such acquisition involve an illegal act, i.e. hacking/ID theft ?

20 November 2008 at 17:37  
Blogger Guthrum said...

Sadly every cause believes that God is on its side.

A case of the belt buckle saying 'Gott mit uns'

20 November 2008 at 19:37  
Anonymous shaven-headed tattooed knuckle-dragger said...

The BNP is the only organised political resistance to Islamic supremacism in the Anglosphere, so it gets my vote.

If Judeo-Christian civilisation is to survive the current Jihadist barbarian onslaught, then it won't be thanks the the Tory toffs, NuLabour elitists or the Dhimmi Anglican establishment. It will be working class nationalists who stop this stone-age death-cult from taking over our formerly green and pleasant land.

20 November 2008 at 19:40  
Anonymous Bugs Bunny said...

CAELITUM, Ioseph, decus, atque nostrae
certa spes vitae, columenque mundi,
quas tibi laeti canimus, benignus
suscipe laudes.

JOSEPH, the praise and glory of the heavens,
sure pledge of life, and safety of the wide world,
as in our joy we sing to thee, in kindness
list to our praises.

Te, satum David, statuit Creator1
Virginis sponsum, voluitque Verbi
te patrem dici, dedit et ministrum
esse salutis.

Thou by the world's Creator wert appointed
spouse of the Virgin; thee He willed to honor
naming thee Father of the Word and guardian
of our salvation.

Tu, Redemptorem stabulo iacentem,
quem chorus vatum cecinit futurum,
aspicis gaudens, sociusque matris2
primus adoras.

Thou thy Redeemer, lying in a stable,
whom long ago foretold the choir of Prophets,
sawest rejoicing and thy God adoredst
humble in childhood.

Rex Deus regum, dominator orbis,
cuius ad nutum tremit infernorum
turba, cui pronus famulatur aether,
se tibi subdit.

God, King of kings, and Governor of the ages,
He at whose word the powers of hell do tremble,
He whom the adoring heavens ever worship
called thee protector.

Laus sit excelsae Triadi perennis,
quae, tibi insignes tribuens honores,3
et tuis nobis meritis beatae
gaudia vitae.

Praise to the Triune Godhead ever-lasting,
Who with such honor mightily hath blest thee;
o may He grant us thy blest petition
joys everlasting.

20 November 2008 at 20:31  
Blogger Miss Snuffleupagus said...

This is not the first time Christians have been found to be hypocrites and it will not be the last. Not everyone is as consistent as you are, Your Grace.

20 November 2008 at 21:34  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

The long term objectives of the EU consist of wiping out every last trace of the nations of Christendom, or "Old Europe" as a certain Neocon scumbag put it. They intend to accomplish this grand project to evolve humanity to a higher state with massive immigration from the Muslim world.

BNP? Immoral?

They can't even compete.

20 November 2008 at 21:57  
Anonymous Martin Landes said...

Perhaps Your Grace would point out to us mere mortals the part in the BNP manifesto where it calls for enforced repatriation. Is it repartiation of illegal immigrants (a policy that is already in place under our present Government), or is repatriation of any and every non white indigenous person?

Having scoured their site and manifesto from top to bottom, I appear unable to find any reference to it. Nor am I able to find reference to anything that demonstrates that the BNP holds, with regard to non white indigenous people, "... a decidedly un-Christian view of them"


A normally good site descending into the usual (although somewhat more subtly delivered) ad hominems comes as a disapointment.

"Cranmer shall leave matters of salvation to the Lord, but he shall say unequivocally that it is not possible to be serious about Christian discipleship or the Great Commission whilst simultaneously holding membership of a group which is antithetical to the concept of ‘church’."

Indeed, leave it to the Lord as at least He has probably taken the time to actually look at what the BNP is trying to achieve rather than regurgatating the same tired old clap trap.

I am a former and future member of the BNP and I am a Christian. Given that you feel I cannot be both, how does that fit in with your own concept of "church"?

I am truly humbled to be in the presence (albeit via my computer and this blog) of anyone who can so skilfully combine Christianity and politics by condemning those that combine Christianity and politics.

God bless you.

20 November 2008 at 23:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The BNP

I think that white people have seen other races throwing tantrums and have realised that it is a very effective way of getting your fair slice of the cake.

21 November 2008 at 00:18  
Blogger McKenzie said...

After much deliberation and thought, I have decided that I must attend the true church.

Can someone please point me in the right direction.

Someone please tell me which is the true Christian denomination so I can go and ask for forgiveness and pray for wisdom and guidance.

But it must be the true church. The church which God approves of. And please can you qualify your answer.

I await patiently

Many thanks.

21 November 2008 at 00:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps they have become bored with lynching pedos to whip up public frenzy so posted the handy copy'n'paste complete list of new people to go after.
As comments here suggest Your Grace, this will probably backfire and even elicit the BNP some sympathy ( and it has certainly generated much publicity).
As to your question, Can a Christian be a member of the BNP, that is for individual concience to decide.

As has been pointed out, the BNP no longer promotes compulsory repatriation for legal immigrants. It's main wish is to promote the interests of the indigent ( aboriginal ) population in the SAME WAY as the myriad ethicly labelled groups already do.
It has no problem with Black Police Association but objects to a similar White Police Association or White Old Ladies Dance Forum being illegal.

Not a BNP member but have just visited their site for the first time and some of their stuff is quite interesting.

21 November 2008 at 04:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

However abhorrent the views of the BNP might be, and however they clash with christian teaching is surely beside the point (especially as our politicians 'do not do God' at least not until they have left office when they do God very publically and loudly!!!)

This country stands for freedom of speech. Anyone it seems can stand up and say the most dreadful things without censure so why pick on one party and not another?

As has been said, 'I do not like what you say but I will defend your right to say it'.

If a policeman or teacher with BNP membership tries to enforce, teach racism, hate, homophobia -then they should be dismissed but if they do their job well and properly their political views should not be penalised.

One either has free speech or one does not -freedom of politics or not. You cannot pick and chose that is illogical.

I was born in the war, my father spent 6 years fighting nazis and their ideology, I am a Christian -but free speech is just that, also free politics unless we are about to introduce our own version of the stasi!

21 November 2008 at 13:02  
Anonymous Terry said...

Mr C, I think you are unfair to an extent - the obligation to love our neighbour does not mean that the whole world should be allowed to live in the UK. If the other parties will not engage with this issue no one can blame those who look to a party which will. The ideal though would be that the established parties would engage with this to avoid the need for a BNP.

21 November 2008 at 13:28  
Anonymous len said...

Mckenzie,
Jesus never spoke about joining a denomination, what he did say was "Follow me"
He also said he would give us a helper to lead us into all truth,the Holy Spirit.
The church as it stands is possibly one of the biggest obstacles to following Jesus. That is why people are leaving the church in droves.
I am born again , baptised in the Holy Spirit, but I am very wary of churches as many teach wrong doctrine!
The apostle Paul received his knowledge mainly through revelation given through the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will lead you if you will let him.

21 November 2008 at 18:53  
Anonymous shaven-headed tattooed knuckle-dragger said...

News Blackout. 12 BNP activists arrested for handing out Islamically-aware leaflets in Liverpool http://tinyurl.com/5d7t6v

22 November 2008 at 21:21  
Anonymous Hugo said...

Perhaps your Grace would like to produce a description of the ways in which the official BNP doctrines conflict with Christian doctrines, because I personally don't see a problem.

4 January 2009 at 21:06  

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