Monday, December 22, 2008

Catholic leaders say ‘Hokey Cokey’ is 'faith hate'

As Cranmer read this report in The Herald, he did wonder if today were April 1st. But it is true enough, and all inextricably tied up with Scottish sectarianism and the interminable feud between Rangers and Celtic.

Yet it is curious that ‘senior Catholics’ have entered the fray, with Peter Kearney, a spokesman for Cardinal Keith O'Brien, declaring that it was a Puritan song with ‘quite disturbing origins’.

Well, there are some - not least AC Grayling - who are persuaded that the Roman Catholic Church has ‘quite disturbing origins’, but they are not calling for it to be proscribed.

And since when did the Puritans write songs?

The Cardinal’s office says the song is ‘anti-Catholic’, adding that ‘it was devised as an attack on, and a parody of, the Catholic mass. If there are moves to restore its more malevolent meaning then consideration should perhaps be given to its wider use’.

Is the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland seriously suggesting that ‘malevolent’ football chanting should lead to the song being banned at all parties?

An example of this abhorrent evil may be observed here.

It is highly likely that the song's title derives from ‘hocus pocus’, a parody of the transubstantiating phrase ‘Hoc est enim corpus meum’ (‘this is my body’), and it is noteworthy that the song in the United States is ‘Hokey Pokey’. But Cranmer would like the Cardinal to consider that ‘faith hate’ is something of a slight overreaction.

Yet politicians (ie the SNP’s Michael Mathieson MSP) are reported to have urged police ‘to arrest anyone using the song to “taunt” Catholics under legislation designed to prevent incitement to religious hatred’.

Cranmer looks forward to the arrest of all magicians who use the phrase ‘hocus pocus’, and exhorts all rational people to join with Murdo Fraser, deputy leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, who said: "I can't believe Scottish children performing the 'Hokey Cokey' are doing so in pursuit of any sort of anti-Catholic agenda."


But paranoia is rife.

It might even lead to calls for the repeal of the Act of Settlement 1701 and the disestablishment of the Church of England.


Blogger John M Ward said...

Oh dear...

I think they've just put their (Leftie?) foot in it. It would be a good idea to take that foot out again...

22 December 2008 at 17:04  
Anonymous John Reid said...

Those devious proddies.
The truth always outs.
Its true then the devil has all the best tunes.

22 December 2008 at 17:10  
Anonymous oiznop said...

Has the Catholic Church looked in to the origins of Agadoo?

22 December 2008 at 17:13  
Anonymous bugs bunny said...

If I were Scottish I would most assuredly vote SNP. I find it heartening that at least one political party is willing to stand up for Scotland's ancient faith.

Alba go bragh! God save the King!

22 December 2008 at 17:57  
Anonymous John Reid said...

Our ancient faith (and I am a Scots man) was that first given by the apostles and not that of the holy roman empire. No pope for us.
As for standing up for the faith, you must be as mad as the cardinal to think stopping a song is about the faith.
Bugs bunny are you a hate crime.

oizop what about yabba dabba do.

22 December 2008 at 18:06  
Anonymous the recusant said...


22 December 2008 at 18:30  
Anonymous Sandy Jamieson said...

Speaking as a Bluenose (Rangers Fan), I look forward to 50,000 Fan's singing this at the Derby Match in the New Year.

Actually the RC hierarchy in Scotland object to anything sung by Rangers fans from "Follow, Follow" (an old evangelical hymn from "Follow, Follow, we will follow Jesus") to the present hit on the Terraces, "The Famine Song" to the tune of the Beach Boys' song, "Sloop John B" containing the refrain, "The Famines over, why don't you go home" dedicated to the many Celtic Fans of Irish descent domiciled in Scotland

22 December 2008 at 18:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just watched BBC reporting Scotland re this major issue. Not one mention that the RCC had made any comment.
Interesting that.

It might be a yawn to recuant but here in Scotland the attacks against proddies is getting out of control.

22 December 2008 at 18:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But paranoia is rife.

It might even lead to calls for the repeal of the Act of Settlement 1701 and the disestablishment of the Church of England.

Paranoia is rife, for just two reasons.

1. It is a perfectly natural and understandable aspect of the human condition.

2. The establishment collectively know this. Therefore greatly profit from making and keeping us as paranoid as possible. This they do by giving us as many things that they can get away with, to keep us in a state of perpetual paranoia. Like for example dis functional families, corrupt government and religious institutions, radical soul destroying socialism in general, rampant pension stealing inflation, highly expensive hot and Cold Wars, otherwise needless famines, bloody revolutions, horrendously nasty Rap Music, establishment linked organized crime, one eye turned illegal drugs and arms trades, and last but not in anyway least New Labour Governments and their beloved Pol-Pot type New World Orders.


Anyone not basically paranoid these or any other days, is simply not paying enough attention or completely given up caring.

Atlas Shrugged

22 December 2008 at 18:58  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Recusant,

It is most unlike you to be fatigued so early in the evening.

It is also a courtesy to place one's hand before one's mouth when one is yawning.

22 December 2008 at 19:03  
Blogger len.allan said...

If your faith is threatened by a song( if that is the intention) how secure are your foundations?

22 December 2008 at 19:37  
Anonymous PaganPride said...

John Reid - I doubt if your ancient faith was Christian at all. The ancient peoples of the island of Britain were pagans pure and simple.

And Christian, demonizing all pagan beliefs. showed little so called Christian Charity. In fact the RCC has shown itself traditionally willing to torture and murder to maintain its political dominace.

As a pagan I find its willingness to be offended by a silly song pathetic.

22 December 2008 at 19:48  
Anonymous John Reid said...

Len the cardinals faith is built on sand. He thinks Peter was the first pope. He forgets that Christ is the head of his church and will not allow another to take his place.

The bread and wine is a hoax. Does anyone believe that a peodophile can truely call Christ out of heaven at his command. Paul tells us in Hebrews (Heb 1:13) 'But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?'
They are not yet all his footstool so He is still sitting down in heaven.

22 December 2008 at 19:54  
Blogger len.allan said...

I believe religion is going to get the shaking it so richly deserves.
God intended from the start that we should have relationship(with Him) not ritual!.

22 December 2008 at 20:04  
Blogger Ttony said...

Sorry to disturb you all but from wikipedia:

There are many theories and conjectures about the meaning of the words "Hokey Pokey", and of their origin. Some scholars attribute the origin to the Shaker song Hinkum-Booby which had similar lyrics and was published in Edward Deming Andrews' A gift to be simple in 1960: (p.42)

" A song rendered ("with appropriate gestures") by two Canterbury sisters while on a visit to Bridgewater, N.H. in 1857 starts thus:

I put my right hand in,
I put my right hand out,
I give my right hand a shake, shake shake
And I turn myself about.

As the song continues, the "left hand" is put in, then the "right foot," then the "left foot," then "my whole head."

...Newell gave it the title, "Right Elbow In," and said that is was danced " deliberately and decorously...with slow rhythmical motion."

Not as much fun as giving Glaswegian football fans a pretext for hitting each other, and giving the Blue and Green "intelligentsias" a new grievance against each other, but there we go.

Dead Archbishops shouldn't encourage small-minded provincialist sectarianism. If they must encourage sectarianism, then encourage it ata national or international level: keep out of Glasgow.

22 December 2008 at 20:25  
Blogger wullie asfb said...

i think the catholic church and the snp are starting to show themselfs for the bigots they realy are

22 December 2008 at 21:45  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

"It might be a yawn to recuant but here in Scotland the attacks against proddies is getting out of control."

I have English, Scots and Irish in my blood and folk. No Church or politician is going to play their games of division anymore in our hour of need.

Time to remember what the little old song Humpty Dumpty was about.

22 December 2008 at 23:41  
Blogger Thomas B said...

A friend attended the game a couple of seasons back in the Champions League between Celtic and Manchester United in Glasgow. He was a die hard red, and remarked that there was some comments from the Celtic fans about the use of "Hello! Hello!" by the United fans.

A song they sing every week at Old Trafford, and which while possibly offensive to Manchester City supporters, in it's Mancunian version is not sectarian.

This rather brings home the fact that Scotland is a different world. But then, they do elect Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling. And John Reid.

23 December 2008 at 01:53  
Anonymous Nelson said...

If the government manages to achieve its aim of a plethora of 'hate crimes' it will be the end of choice & free speech as we know it. at the moment it is testing the water with a raft of test cases, i.e the registrar in North London who has declined to carry out same sex ceremonies due to her religous convictions, she was bullied from her job for this but won the case for wrongful dismissal, subsequentaly the Labour council is I understand planning an appeal.
Please God the British people will not be gagged by the joint forces of the Eurostasi & our puppet government.

23 December 2008 at 02:50  
Anonymous some bloke said...

I remain amazed that no-one burning a guy on Bonfire Night has yet been arrested for religeous Hate Crime.

Watch this space.

23 December 2008 at 04:48  
Blogger dmk said...

We dress our kids up in fake Papal outfits, build an imitation rood screen out of old cardboard boxes, and teach them the song in Latin. You've got to get 'em while they're young.

23 December 2008 at 08:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The RCC have lost on this one. An unveiling of their iron fist from the velvet glove me thinks. As for the SNP they will be sunk for siding with the bigots.

23 December 2008 at 10:19  
Anonymous shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

The Hokey Cokey was written by the anti-Catholic Puritan Praise-God-and-Flee-Fornication Barebone.

In acknowledgement of his choreographic and musical talents, it was planned to give him a state funeral at Westminster Abbey. However the ceremony didn't go quite according to plan due to problems getting his body into the coffin. They put his left leg in ... and that's when the trouble started.

23 December 2008 at 10:27  
Blogger Wyrdtimes said...

Bit rich of the Catholics to complain about faith hate crimes.

Spanish inquisition anyone?
Burning of "witches" and "heretics"
Condemnation of homosexuals (still going on)

Etc etc etc.

Singing Hokey popey is trivial in comparison to the crimes of the Catholic church.

23 December 2008 at 11:34  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

John Reid,
You rightly say that the Christian faith in Scotland was Apostolic; it was of course Roman Catholic from the start, with Apostolically ordained clergy and the Liturgy in Latin. St Columba, St Ninian, etc were all RC.
(W.V. "equal")

23 December 2008 at 13:15  
Anonymous The recusant said...

Your Grace, the more I read about the antics of the clutch of nut jobs that infest Eccleston Square, Lambeth and now it would appear Aitken Street, the more I tire of the whole lot of them. There is no denying we have our fare share on this side of the Tiber, (but yours are by law Established [tee hee]), this strap line really is by way of a News of the World exclusive pedigree. The only reason the MSM even reports it is so that it can bathe in its own bath of self righteousness and it just get wearisome.

As Advent nears its wonderful conclusion surely the incarnation is uppermost in our minds, anyway just give us "the a***hole Bishop of Rochester" (I believe is the de rigueur term of endearment) and we’ll call it evens. I’d even welcome him as the next Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster, perhaps another Newman in the making.

Merry Christmas and a happy hocus-pocus.

23 December 2008 at 14:11  
Anonymous the recusant said...

Wyrdtimes, thank you for that insensate exposition of the transgressions of Rome, its inconsiderable illusive novelty, its cursory treatment of events, and its cheekily deceptive conclusions all point to a provincialism of the mind that would be the envy of Jim Crow or even John Foxe himself. Its perfunctory acquaintance with anything resembling historical fact is quite obviously coincidental and only superseded by the credulous mind in which they were nurtured. Now bugger off, there’s a good chap before we papists release a whole can of Torquemada on your derrière.

Oh what’s the bloody point?

23 December 2008 at 14:14  
Blogger duns scotus said...

little black sambo (we see where you're coming from, pretty nasty)
You rightly say that the Christian faith in Scotland was Apostolic; it was of course Roman Catholic from the start, with Apostolically ordained clergy and the Liturgy in Latin. St Columba, St Ninian, etc were all RC.end quote
Columba patrick etc were part of the Gaelic church, it was not until the synod of whitby in the 7th century that they accepted roman rites, Columba etc, pre-date this and Patrick, for one is not recognised by the papist church.
"Roman" catholiscism did not exist until the fall of the western empire and the split in the Constantinian church.
Constantine founded his church in the 4th century as a state institution and instrument of oppression, a tradition observed by the papacy up to this day.
Peter the apostle had nothing to do with either wing of the catholic church, was never in Rome and hated the Romans.
still what's a matter of truth to the "one true faith" when they are on a banning binge.
they're nothing but a hokey cokey church hahahahahaha

23 December 2008 at 15:40  
Blogger len.allan said...

I think it is amusing (and frustrating, and somewhat sad) to shake the religious tree and see exactly what falls out!
Denominations draw up battle lines, fingers are pointed.
I think you all need a kick up the backside!
If any of you are born again believers, followers of Jesus Christ the Messiah, members of The Body of Christ, grow up!.
There is a dying world out there needing the gospel,
Go and preach it!
If you merely have religion seek the Lord, and get saved.

23 December 2008 at 18:09  
Anonymous The recusant said...

There is not, and there never was on this earth, a work of human policy so well deserving of examination as the Roman Catholic Church. The history of that Church joins together the two great ages of human civilization. No other institution is left standing which carries the mind back to the times when the smoke of sacrifice rose from the Pantheon, and when the camelopards and tigers bounded in the Flavian amphitheater. The proudest royal houses are but of yesterday, when compared with the line of the Supreme Pontiffs. That line we trace back in an unbroken series from the Pope who crowned Napoleon in the nineteenth century to the Pope who crowned Pepin in the eighth. and far beyond the time of Pepin the august dynasty extends, till it is lost in the twilight of fable. The republic of Venice came next in antiquity, but the republic of Venice was modern when compared wit the papacy and the republic of Venice is gone and the papacy remains. The papacy remains not in decay, not a mere antique but full of life and useful vigor...she was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot in Britain and before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished in Antioch and when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca; and she may still exist in undiminished vigor when some traveller from New Zealand shall, in the midst of great solitude, take his stand on a broken arch of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St Paul's.

Thomas Babington Macaulay 1840

23 December 2008 at 22:43  
Blogger Theresa said...

I had a really hard think about whether I was going to post on this at all. It is so difficult to explain to people who do not come from the West of Scotland and who do not have an Ulster connection, what all of this is about. I just want to say two things. Firstly, if you read the Herald article, you will realise that the fuss is not about the present Hokey Cokey, but that some Rangers fans are planning to make up a sectarian version of it. Two,if you have the stomach for it and if you want to know what Rangers and Celtic songs are like, type it into Google and get onto some of their sites. You will soon understand what all the fuss is about. As my old parish priest said when he looked at the empty pews in the church, 'I wish there was as many people willing to live for their religion as there are willing to die for it!'

24 December 2008 at 01:17  
Anonymous John Reid said...

Theresa when you say 'Ulster' connection we then know who you mean.
Comment from the SNP leader on the Hockey Cockey. Hate crime by first minister ? 11 July 2002 - so he's been ahead of us all.

Mr Salmond said Mrs MacDonald had .....

"She’s been in out, in out; it’s like the hokey-cokey and now, presumably, she’s going to shake it all about." Mrs MacDonald was out of the party for almost a decade during which she worked as a radio journalist and a columnist. She resigned after the party banned the left-wing ‘79 Group in which she was a leading member.

24 December 2008 at 06:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is just too silly for words! I feel that the Scots RCs /Celtic supporters are simply looking for trouble and are thin skinned and paranoid, they are also hypocrites.

Now I agree that the "Famine Song" is prima facie insulting to those Scots of an Irish descent, however there is no objection from Celtic Park or the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland when "The Fields of Athenry" is sung by Celtic Fans. In its original words this is a sad song about the Irish Potato Famine and a man who is sent to Botany Bay for stealing corn to feed his starving children. Alas the Bhoys have added in chants in favour of the IRA . They also sing songs such as "Boys of the Old Brigade" which glorify IRA murders. Now the Bears (Gers fans) are no innocents with songs rejoicing at "Being up to our knees in Fenian Blood", but it would seem that protests in Scotland whether these be from the RC Church, the toy-town Parliament in that hideous building in Holyrood, or from the likes of James Mc Millan or Labour MP and Celtic Chairman Mr John Reid etc are a one way street. Any song they object to that is sung by Rangers Fans is blatant bigotry but a blind eye is turned towards similar bigotry by "The Tims".

A plague on both their houses say I. Grow up both of you!

I'm glad I left Scotland nearly 40 years ago now and will never return. The shittiest wee country in the world!

Now I'm off to a party and perhaps we will play the Hokey Cokey!

30 December 2008 at 19:59  

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