Wednesday, December 03, 2008

Roman Catholic bishops want Muslim prayer rooms in Catholic schools

Archbishop Vincent Nichols is favourite to succeed Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor.

Or he was.

He has penned the foreword and personally approved a new document published by the Catholic Education Service, an agency of the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. It advocates that Muslim prayer rooms should be opened in every Roman Catholic school. He also wants special toilet facilities in schools to be adapted for ‘wudu’ – the Islamic cleaning ritual which is performed before prayer. It involves washing the face, hands, arms and feet three times each, gargling the mouth three times and washing the neck and inside the nose and ears. Muslim men and boys might also wash their private parts.

Doubtless some priests will enjoy that.

What is it with the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales? Are they any longer Roman Catholic? Do they understand the meaning of Semper Eadem? Orthodoxy? Do they know the purpose of a Catholic education? Have they heard of Pope Benedict XVI?

These demands go way beyond the legal requirements on catering for the rights and needs of religious minorities. And who is to pay for it? There are 2,300 Catholic primary and secondary schools in the UK, and it will cost millions to convert the facilities of every one to accommodate the sensitivities of Muslim students who have managed perfectly well up to now. The bishops might be keen to answer those who say religious schools sow division, but has it not occurred to these dimwits that the non-Christian 30 per cent of pupils who attend Catholic schools do so precisely because their parents favour the ethos?

There is no compulsion at all for Catholic schools to provide a room for pupils and staff from other faiths to pray. But the bishops want this multi-faith pap to permeate and corrupt the next generation of believers, just to make it less likely that a Benedict might ever become Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster.

Astonishingly, they say: ‘If such space is not available on a permanent or regular basis, extra efforts might be made to address such need for major religious festivals’.

Major religious festivals?

Are they seriously proposing that Catholic schools begin to celebrate Eid and Diwali? Might they not first address the declining numbers attending church at Christmas or Easter, not to mention those holy days of obligation which appear to have been transmuted to a Sunday because of declining numbers?

Archbishop Vincent Nichols is of the view that such an approach to religion will ‘strengthen’ children’s faith and ‘enrich’ the lives of staff and young people. He also exhorts head teachers to ‘keep under review’ all policies which touched on other religions, including school uniform, dietary needs and the time-tabling of events.

So uniforms may be adapted to accommodate the needs of other faiths, which are not religious needs at all, but cultural ones, and cultural ones alien to British culture. And they must consider serving halal meat, which will then most likely impose halal upon all students as it has done in some schools already; and then the school timetable will need to be adapted in order to accommodate Friday prayers and to ensure that nothing as trivial as an education might interfere with their obligations to Allah.

Dialogue is important, and so are respect and tolerance. And these should certainly be values taught in the nation’s schools. But it is a thoroughly secular spirituality which seeks to reduce orthodoxy to perpetual compromise and accommodation. It is a politically-correct move straight out of the Tony Blair brand of Catholicism – it must be New Catholic.

New Labour’s New Catholicism for a New Britain.

His Holiness must be profoundly concerned.

And Cranmer is just as profoundly concerned that these Catholic bishops and archbishops essentially want to turn every Catholic school into a mosque and make them shari’a compliant.

There are not yet enough Muslim schools to make a request for reciprocity in any sense meaningful.

So perhaps the nation’s mosques will provide prayer rooms in which men and women may pray alongside each other as equals.

Equality between the sexes is, after all, the law of England and Wales.

Perhaps the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales might consider the meaning and importance of the Christian heritage of England and Wales before they contribute further to its demise. They are undermining all that Pope Benedict is trying to (re-)construct. A house divided...


Blogger len.allan said...

To these people catholicism is apparently not the only way to God.

3 December 2008 at 08:08  
Blogger Botogol said...

Yes, well your grace must follow the money: he is worried about keeping his government funding, isn't he?

It's about time we woke up to the fact that secular Government money and religious schools simply don't mix: it's uncomfortable for the government to find itself funding ideas that are contrary to its values, and accepting govt values is corruping for the ideals of the schools and the parents who send their children to them.

Religious schools should be private schools.
Government schools should be secular schools.

3 December 2008 at 08:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is my understanding that The Roman Empires Church, not only has JEWISH cardinals it has many MUSLIM ones as well.

Inter religious dialog is another phrase for 'strong overt moves towards a ONE WORLD RELIGION'. Which was always the primary aim of the Roman Empires Church from the time of Constantine.

As was/still is, The New World Order.

Democracy is not a word used in the Bible. However words like King and ruler are found on virtually every page.

The Pope knows himself to be the voice/representative of God on Earth. Which makes him the king/president maker, and so therefore the effective dictator of the entire world.

Which spiritually, if not always materially, The Pope in Rome, along with his military arm (the Jesuits) most surly are, and has long since been.

The worlds secret government is centered around and dominated by, The Pope in Romes favored Jesuit order The Knights of Malta, such as the likes of Tony Blair. The head of free masonry is THE POPE.

Charles was named Charles for a reason. He was selected from birth to end this countries false and contrived affiliation towards protestantism FOREVER.

The entire Royal family are to my knowledge, secretly ROMAN CATHOLICS, in all but name. Whats worse all of the entire worlds ruling elite ALWAYS have been. Including so called establishment Muslims and Zionists.

The Roman Empires Church worships fallen angles, including the most famous one of all Lucifer. Without which the Roman Empires Church would have gone bust before Constantine's body had finished burning.

Suck and swallow, that little lot if you dare.

Atlas shrugged

3 December 2008 at 09:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace:

We must restore the Test Act. How much evidence do we need to see that its repeal was a great error?

Lord Peter Wimsey

3 December 2008 at 10:07  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

The Aryans gave birth to Sanatana Dharma, it does not recognise secularism of faith, it understands that all are different paths of understanding one truth.

Dharma is truth, if the Catholic Church wants to be Sanatanists then they should support the Caste System.

3 December 2008 at 10:41  
Anonymous John Reid said...

Why is that is Scotland where scools were joined (cath and prod) but were given at the request(sic) of the RCC seperate entrances and toilets. You can't have a cath standing at a urinal along side a prod.
So the prods are out but the religion of peace is in. So two religions of peace together.
I am glad at this development as it further enhances the prod view to keep away from the old serpent.

3 December 2008 at 10:51  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

A closing line in the Rig Veda ought to be kept in mind as we inquire into the Aryans who composed the Rig Veda, to compare them to the Indo-European ethos, to understand a bit more about the Etruscans and their contribution to the ethos. The closing line is a warning: .."Time is the root and the seed, it gives and it takes away. I bow to God, who lives in this world within us; whoever calls Him by any name, by that name does He come."

Multi faith prayer rooms are not being proposed here your Grace, as usual it is a matter of segregation prayer rooms.

For the so called tolerant ones.

If it where multi faith then we could walk in with our shoes on and pray along sides them!

3 December 2008 at 11:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is wisdom in all of this.

In the meantime, anyone concerned can support the Temple Institute in their endeavour to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem. It is rather crucial.

3 December 2008 at 12:03  
Blogger Preacher said...

Your Grace and other gentleman.
I feel that Revelations:17 shows the situation quite clearly, maybe this book also sheds some light on many other events that have come up lately, not bad for a correspondent of nearly 2,000 years ago. Of course the majority of our government gave up reading the Bible decades ago as an irrelevancy, proving themselves
"neither wise nor prudent".

3 December 2008 at 12:11  
Blogger McKenzie said...

Experiencing major problems using my own name to make comments.

Anyway, if this one gets through, yeah this does seem outrageous at first thought, but as difficult as it will be to see, I can see wisdom here.

Oh, and yeah, please do get the building underway.

3 December 2008 at 12:12  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

"There is wisdom in all of this".

Men of yesteryear worshipped their gods atop mountains, they conquered and civilized in the name of God, they murdered, slaughtered innocents and wreaked all kinds of havoc too on behalf of God. And these very old mind-sets that have wreaked so much chaos upon the earth are centered upon one place: the Temple Mount of Jerusalem. Many faiths today claim that mount and its holy city [of peace] as their own. Today, as in the eons past, they are willing to destroy peoples and cultures over it.

3 December 2008 at 12:14  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I know, but it's all been prophesied, so lets get on with it man.

3 December 2008 at 12:32  
Anonymous The recusant said...

I was dumbfounded when this story broke a few days ago I just don’t know what is happening any more with the English and Welsh Catholic Bishops, what is their agenda? This hot on the heels of their Gay friendly leaflets fiasco and all it entails.

Your Graces “Doubtless some priests will enjoy that.” was unnecessary.

Thank God for the Pope.

3 December 2008 at 12:42  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

Among the acts required by God of Abraham when reaching Canaan was the sacrifice of his son Isaac atop the altar on Mt. Zion, believed to be the Temple Mount in Jerusalem (Gen. 22.1). Here the Bible is recalling an ancient practice attributed in particular to the god Ba'al, to whom children were sacrificed.

Is a Temple that sacrificed children to Ba'al worth all this trouble?

Its time the British stop sacrificing our youth in his name!

It is unchristian and certainly not a Noble Aryan trait.

3 December 2008 at 12:52  
Blogger McKenzie said...

If its in the scriptures, then it is ever so slightly Christian.

Its PEOPLE who are doing the terrible things, under their own weird directives.

The message is simple. But prophesy is prophesy, and people are people...the rest will be history.

And yes there was no need for that remark, rather juvenile for someone who should know better.

3 December 2008 at 12:59  
Blogger Did NWO Fabians murder John Smith MP? said...

Will Christians be allowed to worship in mosques?

3 December 2008 at 13:09  
Anonymous shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

Anonymous 12:13. Wouldn't rebuilding the Temple provoke Islamageddon?

3 December 2008 at 13:11  
Blogger McKenzie said...

anonymous 12:13 and myself are one in the same: I was having a nightmare with Ubuntu on my laptop.

Does it not feel to you like we are in the 'end times'?

Of course Christianity should be completely racially inclusive, but most definitely NOT what is being proposed here. The wisdom of it can only be that if we are in the end times, then what is being proposed will also usher in the necessary revival and repentance, as Catholics, who I have complete faith in, will be horrified and stired into the necessary condition for the salvation of their souls.

An infestation of Islam into Catholic prayer and teaching can only mean that now is the time to get the Temple rebuilt because Christ is on route as we discuss.

3 December 2008 at 13:31  
Blogger Wrinkled Weasel said...

Given that we are fast approaching the season of goodwill, ebay, the kid in the manger and pantomimes (which this post is surely a synopsis of) perhaps His Grace might consent, in view of his corporeal condition, to be referred to, throughout the yuletide season, as Cinders?

3 December 2008 at 14:01  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

"rather juvenile for someone who should know better."

"Does it not feel to you like we are in the 'end times'?"

We are living in Brainwashed idiot times McKenzie, live true to your beliefs if you must and run off to the slaughter.

The sooner all the Brainwashed idiots get slaughtered for a little Jew cult that rejected Christ, the sooner the rest of us can begin making a better World.

End times are always followed with fresh beginings :)

3 December 2008 at 14:09  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

With indifference to Rome over the Pope's initiative to encourage the Latin Mass but accommodating to Islam, the Bishops clearly feel that it's 'Better the turban than the Roman Mitre?'

What use are Catholic Bishops in England and Wales. Cant we just share the Scottish ones? They seem to be fairly sensible

3 December 2008 at 14:30  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

That's not the fatplonka I know..

3 December 2008 at 16:27  
Blogger McKenzie said...

Would you hang about in toilets, with great enthusiasm, and fight such a crusade in order to convince people that toilets are full of shit?

Or would you take a quiet dump and leave everyone else to it?

I mean to say, such a blog as this is really a terrible place right?

Anyway, the Juvenile remark was not directed at you, sorry you took offence.

If someone believes in God, Christ, Allah, Mohammad, Buddha, there is very little you can do by way of complaining to change this. This is why the Temple should be built...quickly.

Like it has been said..."lest no flesh be spared".

And that new beginning you speak of, I think you will not be displeased.

Nanoo nannoo!! you dizzy fat plonka

(And don't go over reacting to this, it is just a waste of emotional energy. I speak as one who believes in God, Christ, Satan, and the power of the Holy Spirit.)

We are going forward into the end times, and there is nothing you can do about it. Its your own fault, you should have listened, but you didn't.

There are various outcomes.

December 21 2012: The planet crosses the Galactic equater and we experience a massive Polar Shift.

Israel starts a war with Iran, Russia joins in and pop goes the weasel.

The Muslim messiah appears and forms an alliance with the Anti-Christ, they Take over the Dome of the Rock, and a similar hellish situation to the above takes place.

We all repent and turn to God...hmmm.

3 December 2008 at 16:32  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Weasel,

His Grace has been called a whole lot worse.

3 December 2008 at 16:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Never be too complacent about hidden Forces

3 December 2008 at 17:07  
Blogger Miss Snuffleupagus said...

Your Grace
This is entertaining. What is of interest is why any Catholic would have such desires.

3 December 2008 at 20:28  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

(And don't go over reacting to this, it is just a waste of emotional energy. I speak as one who believes in God, Christ, Satan, and the power of the Holy Spirit.)

The holy spirit moves me to laugh at your waste of emotional energy, Im not taking things personal, but as one who knows God and finds you wanting :-D

3 December 2008 at 23:33  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I know God better than you do, any day!

3 December 2008 at 23:45  
Blogger McKenzie said...

How do I know this? Simple!
I did what is called the Homer Simpson Prayer, which goes something like this:

Dear Lord,
If Thou wishes me to continue living my life the way I am, then give me NO sign what so ever

And this is how I became born again and changed my life, because no sooner had I finished praying, my cam belt snapped and I had to walk 15 fucking miles to the nearest phone.

3 December 2008 at 23:56  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...


Oh ye of little faith (sigh)

4 December 2008 at 00:02  
Blogger Stewart Cowan said...

Your Grace, we are surely witnessing the One World Religion being assembled before our eyes.

Herr Ratzinger prayed in a mosque towards Mecca to show the way.

No real Christian would do this.

I mean, as if Mary-worship is not bad enough. She was a most blessed lady, but is not herself Deity.

4 December 2008 at 00:06  
Blogger Wrinkled Weasel said...

(I saw this story a day or two ago and almost sent it to His Grace, but then I decided it would leap off the page at him anyway. And it came to pass.)

Some say we are in a post-Christian era. I don't think so. I think what we have been entering for some time is a renaissance. As the period known as "The Renaissance" looked back to the Classical, Christian spirituality is looking back to the Celtic Way. By its nature, this movement is non-hierarchical and fluid and needs no earthly bed, but it draws upon strong foundations such as monasticism and an understanding of our relationship with the elements and soul friends.

I feel we are seeing the result of the natural evolution of faith, whereby the established churches are crumbling to dust. For too long, the authority of Organised Religion has been undermined, both from within and without. It does not mean that spiritual hunger has gone. It does not mean that the need to believe has gone. It does not mean that the knowledge of God is not woven into the DNA of our humanity. It means that people are seeking elsewhere.

God requires us to validate our relationship with the world. Is Church any longer a place to do this?

4 December 2008 at 01:11  
Blogger len.allan said...

Get out of religion and join the ekklesia, the Body of Christ

4 December 2008 at 07:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come out of her ,My people,that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues(revelation 18-2-4 KJV)

4 December 2008 at 08:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting that the symbol shown in the photo to denote 'multi-faith prayer', portrays a figure adopting a position identifiably Islamic.

4 December 2008 at 08:25  
Anonymous Wallenstein said...

Cranmer: These demands go way beyond the legal requirements on catering for the rights and needs of religious minorities.

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain."

Are you really sure you're a Christian, Mr Cranmer? You don't seem to be very well aquainted with the principles of the Gospel.

4 December 2008 at 11:14  
Blogger dizzyfatplonka said...

"That's not the fatplonka I know.."

Sorry about that Homophobic horse, the alter ego does like to shock from time to time.

No harm meant though :)

At times my spirit is more wild goose than dove.

4 December 2008 at 14:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your going to be brought to book you know!
Empty hollow things that you are.

4 December 2008 at 18:57  
Blogger McKenzie said...

STRONG Son of God, immortal Love,
Whom we, that have not seen thy face,
By faith, and faith alone, embrace,
Believing where we cannot prove;

Thine are these orbs of light and shade;
Thou madest Life in man and brute;
Thou madest Death; and lo, thy foot
Is on the skull which thou hast made.

Thou wilt not leave us in the dust:
Thou madest man, he knows not why,
He thinks he was not made to die;
And thou hast made him: thou art just.

Thou seemest human and divine,
The highest, holiest manhood, thou:
Our wills are ours, we know not how;
Our wills are ours, to make them thine.

Our little systems have their day;
They have their day and cease to be:
They are but broken lights of thee,
And thou, O Lord, art more than they.

We have but faith: we cannot know;
For knowledge is of things we see;
And yet we trust it comes from thee,
A beam in darkness: let it grow.

Let knowledge grow from more to more,
But more of reverence in us dwell;
That mind and soul, according well,
May make one music as before,

But vaster. We are fools and slight;
We mock thee when we do not fear:
But help thy foolish ones to bear;
Help thy vain worlds to bear thy light.

Forgive what seem’d my sin in me;
What seem’d my worth since I began;
For merit lives from man to man,
And not from man, O Lord, to thee.

Forgive my grief for one removed,
Thy creature, whom I found so fair.
I trust he lives in thee, and there
I find him worthier to be loved.

Forgive these wild and wandering cries,
Confusions of a wasted youth;
Forgive them where they fail in truth,
And in thy wisdom make me wise.

by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

4 December 2008 at 20:01  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I trust I have not wasted breath:
I think we are not wholly brain,
Magnetic mockeries; not in vain,
Like Paul with beasts, I fought with Death;

Not only cunning casts in clay;
Let Science prove we are, and then
What matter Science unto men,
At least to me? I would not stay.

Let him, the wiser man who spring
Hereafter, up from childhood shape
His action like the greater ape,
But I was born to other things


Ring out the want, the care, the sin,
The faithless coldness of the times;
Ring out, ring out my mournful rhymes,
But ring the fuller minstrel in . . .

Ring in the valiant man and free,
The larger heart, the kindlier hand;
Ring out the darkness of the land,
Ring in the Christ that is to be.

In Memoriam

4 December 2008 at 20:25  
Blogger IftikharA said...

British schooling has been mis-educating and de-educating Muslim children for the last 50 years and for the first time the Muslim leadership openly declared that British school is a home of institutional racism where there is no place for foreign culture and languages. Institutional racism is depriving Muslim children of the chance to go to their own faith schools. It leads LEAs to reject or delay approval of Muslim schools. Policy makers like Mr. Graham Lane and others like him do not want to see even a single Muslim school in the United Kingdom. The British teachers have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community. Western education system can easily deprogram Muslim children and force them to adopt un-Islamic values. Let the Muslim parents decides how and where to educate their children. According to MORI social research institute on behalf of Bristol LEA, nine out of ten Muslim parents agreed with the model of an Islamic secondary school set up within the state system. I rejected British schooling for Muslim children in the early 70s.

A child who has English as a second language is seen as having a special need – not as having a skill to be lauded from the rooftops. Bilingual children think in different way. Language has a profound effect in shaping the ways people think and act. Certain concepts are embedded in words that do not translate. There are repertoires of phrases which exist in Arabic or Urdu because there is no English equivalent. State schools are slaughter houses and are not suitable for bilingual Muslim children. Muslim children in the UK may lose out when they join reception classes because the school’s values and language reflect those of the dominant native culture, rather than those of their home. Almost all recent research literature agrees that if you want children whose home language is not English to excel in English –medium schools, it is important to nurture and acknowledge that first language along side their English development. Cultivating bilingualism could and should promote pupil’s linguistic development. Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.

Taxpayers’ money spent on schools should be handed to parents as vouchers to be used for their children’s education as they wished. Funds may be given to parents to set up their own schools. Lady Uddin argues strongly for the benefits of faith-based schooling, rejecting claims made in reports on the 2001 riots in Oldham, Burnley and Bradford that polarised schooling contributed to community division. Culturally separate groups, communities and institutions do not have to be the causes of social instability. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools to be managed and controlled by Muslim Educational Trust and Charities.
Iftikhar Ahmad

6 December 2008 at 18:33  
Blogger len.allan said...

I suspect a muslim would get a better education in the Uk that a christian in ANY muslim country!.

7 December 2008 at 13:18  

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