Wednesday, January 21, 2009

Dutch MP Geert Wilders to be prosecuted for criticising Islam.

Cranmer thought the age of Inquisition was long gone. But it seems that one uncompromising pursuit of God’s will for Europe has simply been supplanted by another.

A Dutch court has ordered the prosecution of Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders for ‘inciting hatred and discrimination’ against Muslims. The charges relate to Fitna, a film (censored in the UK) he made last year in which he compared the Qur’an to Hitler’s Mein Kampf and drew a direct link between Islam and violence. The film juxtaposed images of the September 11th attacks with quotations from the Qur’an. This, apparently, is not acceptable, notwithstanding that the perpetrators of this evil were professing Muslims and justified their atrocity with appeals to the Qur’an, and flew into the Twin Towers with ‘Allahu Akhbar’ on their lips.

May one not state this as a matter of historical fact?

Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh was also murdered by a radical Dutch Muslim who left qur’anic quotes stabbed into his chest. His co-producer on the project, Somali-born former Dutch lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali, lived under government protection for several years after van Gogh's killing. She now lives in the United States.

May one not state this as a matter of historical fact?

The film also includes images of other terror attacks; bloodied victims; beheadings of hostages; executions of women; and footage, with subtitles, of Muslim leaders preaching inflammatory sermons against Jews and Christians.

Mr Wilders is simply of the view that in 1945, Nazism was defeated in Europe; in 1989, communism was defeated in Europe; and in now Islamic ideology has to be defeated.

He has called the decision to prosecute him for making a film about this view ‘an attack on the freedom of expression’.

And he is not wrong.

This will be a defining trial of the age. It will polarise communities, divide the Netherlands, and the eyes of the world shall be upon the European Union as it wrestles with the seismic consequences of whatever verdict is delivered.

Mr Wilders has not criticised individual Muslims, or defamed Mohammed, or blasphemed against Allah (directly). But what if he had? Is one no longer free to pour scorn upon a god in whom one does not believe, mock a prophet one deems to be false, or question an ideology one considers repugnant? Can you imagine Elijah being prosecuted for mocking the prophets of Baal? Does not the assertion of the supremacy of one God over the pantheon of others necessitate the humiliation of these false gods and idols? Is not the very choice to follow one particular faith over another an act of ‘discrimination’?

Islam is not a race, but a religio-political ideology. And now it appears that a Dutch MP – a citizen of the EU – may be prosecuted for daring to criticise an ideology.

This decision will have every member of the BNP wringing their hands with glee, and leave every libertarian of moderate political persuasion profoundly perplexed. Doubtless no British MP will dare to comment on this story at all (not even those who profess to be immensely concerned about the erosion of liberties) for fear of inciting the BNP to excessive gloating or of offending the UK’s Muslim population and thereby losing their votes with two elections imminent.

Geert Wilders called the Qur'an a ‘fascist book’.

This is apparently a crime; specifically that of inciting racial hatred.

Cranmer would like to know why those Muslims who refer to the Holy Bible as flawed and full of lies have not been similarly prosecuted for inciting racial hatred.

Ahh – Christianity is not a race, but Islam is.


Cranmer does not wish to trivialise the pain which Mr Wilders may have caused to many Muslims. But they live in a liberal democracy, in a European Union which enshrines the principle of freedom of expression in its Charter on Human Rights, and no-one has the right not to be offended.

Not even Muslims.

Many may consider Mr Wilders to be as odious as Nick Griffin, but neither is involved in anything illegal. While the BNP exists on the fringe of the political extremities and has indeed been found to be fundamentally racist, the Dutch Freedom Party is a democratic organisation with nine MPs. Mr Wilders' film may be painful for Muslims, but it is not criminal.

However, the court's three judges said they had weighed Mr Wilders' ‘anti-Islamic rhetoric’ against his right to free speech, and they have ruled he has gone ‘beyond the normal leeway given to politicians’. By attacking the symbols of the Muslim religion, they say ‘he also insulted Muslim believers’.

No parliamentary privilege there, then.

The judges have said that while the Netherlands is ‘generally liberal’, they are ‘making an exception in the case of Wilders' comments about Islam’. Their statement is illuminating: ‘The court considers appropriate criminal prosecution for insulting Muslim worshippers because of comparisons between Islam and Nazism made by Wilders.’

In observation of the increasing general acceptance of expressions of anti-Semitism in society, it is curious that a British MP may compare the actions of Israel (=’Jews’?) to those of Nazis and do so with impunity, but a Dutch MP who dares to equate Islam with Nazism is hauled before the courts.

Surely the EU needs to ‘harmonise’ this inconsistency?

It appears that the court is only acting because it has received nine (yes, nine) complaints from citizens over the prosecution service's refusal to press charges against Mr Wilders for his ‘anti-Islamic statements’. There is a fear that their non-response might spark riots and civil unrest.

This is curious. Cranmer did not know that the courts were subject to the common cry of curs.

Mr Wilders has said on his website:

"Participation in the public debate has become a dangerous activity. If you give your opinion, you risk being prosecuted."

He said not only he, but all Dutch citizens opposed to the ‘Islamisation’ of the Netherlands will be on trial.

"Who will stand up for our culture if I am silenced?"

Make no mistake about it, this is a founding nation of the EU limiting freedom of expression by appealing to a notion of blasphemy, under the pretext of preventing civil strife. The only religion which is being protected in law is Islam. Cranmer has previously observed this development in the UK.

If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? (Ps 11:3).


Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

Wilders is not Griffin. He's not the extremist. The idiots who have FORCED endless and indiscriminate immigration are to blame for this. They're the ones who, rather then admit that immigration has got to stop, will prefer instituting an oppressive government to keep a lid on all the contingent social tensions for a little bit longer.

They are choosing death over life to maintain a smug, sanctimoniously "non-discriminating" persona.

Combine this gathering economic catastrophe. This is the big one.

21 January 2009 at 18:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the
U.S. , U.K. and Australia


Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!

Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady.

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 and have continually threatened to do so since?

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day,or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in a brutal insurgency.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in
Afghanistan come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blows themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a woundedterrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat,and 'fed special' food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts:

I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it,

I don't care!!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behaviour!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities
committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country!
And may I add:

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.'

I have another quote that I would like to add, AND.......I hope you forward all this.

One last thought for the day:

Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

1. Jesus Christ

2. The Canadian Soldier.

3. The British Soldier.

4. The US Soldier, and

5. The Australian Soldier

One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom."

21 January 2009 at 19:18  
Blogger Tommy 3 Lions said...

This Cloggy should be an MP over here, he would get my vote. He is a man with something English and British politicians lack, good old fashioned backbone.

21 January 2009 at 19:24  
Anonymous len said...

What this Dutch court has done (unintentionally I presume)is put the Qur`an in the dock with Geert Wilders as this is the book where muslims draw their inspiration.
I wonder how it will stand up?.

21 January 2009 at 19:54  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

21 January 2009 at 20:12  
Anonymous Shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

This is a typical example of LITIGATION JIHAD:

"Offended Muslims are very keen to sue kuffars on the slightest pretext. The objective is not necessarily to win the case but to harass the kuffars and force them to spend vast amounts of money on their legal defence, eg the security-probing Flying Imams who sued the passengers who reported their suspicious behaviour to the authorities, the hijab-wearing Muslima who didn't get the hairdressing job and Mark Steyn sued in a Canadian kangaroo court for telling the truth about Islam."

The primary objective of this prosecution is similar. It is not necessarily to put Wilders behind bars (though that would be a bonus) , but to drive his entire party into bankruptcy.

Wilders quote: “We depend on small donations. The Freedom Party is the only party in Parliament that does not accept any government funding. This court decision jeopardizes the very existence of the Freedom Party. We simply cannot afford the enormous legal expenses.”

21 January 2009 at 22:10  
Blogger Damo Mackerel said...

Maybe we should rename the Netherlands to the Neanderthals?

22 January 2009 at 00:04  
Blogger Ayrdale said...

Before Muslims became easily aggrieved we had (in NZ anyway)a civil liberties lobby group who protested long, loud and hard against infringements of free speech and free expression.
I remember too, the US equivalent, the ACLU, who protested on behalf of a neo-nazi groups' right to march through a Jewish neighbourhood.
Civil liberties groups seem strangely silent these days. Where are they ?
Sir, you are right. This will be a defining trial for the free world...
Interestingly, my word verification is gentl.
Gentle or gentile ?

22 January 2009 at 01:20  
Blogger Fergus Carrick said...

Maybe there is a need to separate church and state. But, since we seem to be in a world where that is impossible we are forced to follow the teachings we espouse. It seems a lot of Your Grace's correspondents have forgotten the admonition of our Saviour, "Love your enemies". At a visceral level I applaud the sentiments of the Canadian lady quoted by your Anonymous correspondent above. That only confirms my failure. We will not overcome Islam by the sword, or by logical discussion or by freedom of speech. We will only overcome Islam when we win them to the Good News of Jesus. That path may lead where Your Grace trod – but is the only one where we are promised final victory.

22 January 2009 at 01:39  
Anonymous Attila the window-dresser said...

The BNP won't be around long enough to benefit from this case. I see that the powers that be have hired a US consultancy firm, Blue State Digital, to run the anti-BNP campaign. That's the same firm that marketed The Chosen One.

Here's a quote from BSD's website at
"With our social points system, your users accumulate community karma by participating online."

With all that 'community karma' the knuckledraggers won't stand a chance!

To be successful, all that Blue State have got to do is persuade the hideously white proles in the post-industrial rust belts that:

(1) Immigration is beneficial to them.
(2) Immigrants are at least as law-abiding as natives.
(3) Islam is NOT a threat.
(4) Massive immigration does NOT result in environmental degradation, housing shortages and overcrowding.

Piece of cake!

22 January 2009 at 01:40  
Anonymous an ex-apprentice said...

Your Grace,

The EU Parliament and the European Court of Human Rights are moving increasingly to make insult and the giving of offence illegal. I quote from the Parliamentary Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights Report dated Jun 2007:

"With regard to blasphemy, religious insults and hate speech against persons on the grounds
of their religion, the state is responsible for determining what should count as criminal offences within the limits imposed by the case-law of the European Court of Human Rights.

In multicultural societies, freedom of expression (Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)) and freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Article 9 ECHR) occasionally have to be reconciled. In some instances, it may also be necessary to place restrictions on these freedoms.

In the case of unjustified insulting attacks on objects of religious veneration the Court
recognises the possibility of the Contracting States to take measures to restrict the freedom of
opinion. The Court recognised for example that, in the absence of a uniform European conception of
the requirements of the protection of the rights of others in relation to attacks on their religious
convictions, states have a wider margin of appreciation when regulating freedom of expression in connection with moral or religious issues compared to interferences with political speech. However, this margin can never be unrestricted.

In accordance with the recommendation of the European Commission against Racism and
Intolerance (ECRI)13, public incitement to violence, hatred or discrimination, public insults and
defamation or threats against a person or a grouping of persons on the grounds of their race, colour,
language, religion, nationality, or national or ethnic origin should be criminal offences, where such
acts are committed intentionally. Furthermore, legislation in this regard should be applied resolutely
and consistently."

Offence and insult are, of course, subjective. I question, you criticise, they insult. You cannot say something which may be taken as an insult to a religion without also offending against its followers, and thereby committing, according to the above, a criminal offence.

You cannot have freedom of speech without the freedom to offend. We appear to be well embarked on the slippery slope to having neither.

22 January 2009 at 04:00  
Anonymous USpace said...

This is BIG, this is REAL BIG! SPREAD THE WORD to the world everyone! The EU Mandarins have crossed the line! If this goes to court, how much more of the public will become aware of this tyranny?

All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. If there is no freedom of speech, then there can be no real freedom.

The Christians and Jews don’t riot when somebody makes fun of Christ or Jews. People must learn to be civilized, and held to account when they are not. Muslims included.

Geert Wilders is a hero spreading the painful truth. He MUST be protected!
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
weak and insecure is BEST

the best way for religion
KILL those who question it

absurd thought -
God of the Universe wants
Islam for everyone

submit to glorious life
slavery and servitude

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
outlaw self-defense

exposing violent crimes
shall be deemed hate speech

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
outlaw most bloggers

license all the rest
monitor their writing

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
pretend to defend

human rights while stopping
speech defending human rights
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
Film 'Fitna' Spreads Across World
'Fitna' Film Post in Arabic
Philosophy of Liberty Cartoon
Help Halt Terrorism Today!


22 January 2009 at 07:30  
Blogger Alcuin said...

Support Wilders by:

* signing the petition

* Writing to the Dutch Embassy (38 Hyde Park Gate, London, SW7 5DP), pointing out to them in no uncertain terms that it is Dutch culture and justice that will be on trial, with the eyes of the whole world on them.

22 January 2009 at 10:20  
Blogger McKenzie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

22 January 2009 at 10:26  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr McKenzie,

If you see fit to hurl gratuitous insults at His Grace, you might consider finding somewhere else to reside. You are a guest upon His Grace's blog. Please behave as a guest might be expected to.

22 January 2009 at 10:45  
Blogger McKenzie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

22 January 2009 at 10:45  
Blogger McKenzie said...

I have indeed decided to find elswhere to reside. You insult me here and offer to facility to reply. You have been found wanting.

22 January 2009 at 11:01  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr McKenzie,

His Grace refers you to his 'Bottom Line'.

22 January 2009 at 11:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These are indeed sad days for freedom. The bible says that things will get worse in the end days.

22 January 2009 at 11:28  
Blogger McKenzie said...

No one has the right not to be offended eh?

I live in Wales, comfortably away from the swathes of Muslim immigrants making other indigenous people's lives a misery. I tried to live in Bolton once, never again. You cannot offend me, and I do not take offence directly from your comments about being racist. But try living in Bradford, or Dagenham etc. These people have joined the BNP because they have been kicked in the proverbials time and time again: it is these people whom I take on the offense for from your comments about them being racist. I know why, the reason why you feel the need to point out that you are not like the evil BNP before you proceed to make such posts, it is because your opinions are so close to BNP policy that you feel the need to differentiate. But where do you live, where is your ivory tower Cranmer?

Like you say though, nobody has the right not to be offended, but if you sling insults around yourself, then at least expect a few back. My God, this is a post about free speech and the rights of people not to be excluded from offence, and yet here you are telling me to bugger off because I have replied to your insults in an insulting way.

I purposely insulted you by calling you a bigot, but I also said I Liked you for it, because at least you stand for things which I feel need standing up for. But if you want to call me racist for this, fine. It is understandable to a point, and indeed, I use the stigma of the BNP as a weapon against the persecution I feel to be under these days. So if I make you feel uncomfortable, then GOOD, this is my intention, because I feel uncomfortable with what is happening. Nothing will make me stop: persecution makes me stronger, more resolute, as indeed it does to my Brothers in Arms.

I salute you Cranmer for many of your words. I am a reader of hearts and souls, and in yours, I find much that I admire.

22 January 2009 at 11:42  
Anonymous the recusant said...

That the Dutch should complain at any comparison to the Nazis is ironic indeed. Of all the western European countries the Dutch rounded up, collaborated and willingly sent more Jews to their death in German concentration camps than any other western European country, 100,000 (71.4% of all Jews in the country). Of all the Countries in Western Europe the Dutch produced more volunteers for the Waffen SS than any other. Thousands of Dutch volunteers joined the 11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland and the 5th SS Panzergrenadier Division Wiking, the SS-Freiwilligen Legion Niederlande, the first European volunteer, a Dutchman, earned the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross: Gerard Mooyman. In December 1944. In fact so many Dutch volunteered to fight for the Nazis that by July 1941, the number of recruits meant that the Nordwest division could be dissolved and several separate units formed. The Dutch were organised into SS Volunteer Unit Niederlande.. Dutch volunteers, many members of the Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging (NSB)
NSB, continued to sign up for the unit, and by July 1941 the formation was the size of a reinforced infantry battalion, boasting five fully motorised companies.

Holland was invaded on May 10, 1940, and bravely forced the Germans to accept their total surrender five days later.

Mussert the chief of the Dutch Nazi party, NSB organised national celebrations only six weeks after their total capitulation. Membership had swelled to over 50,000 since surrender and the Dutch cheered and waved when the same Dornier aircraft that had Bombed Rotterdam flew over the heads the cheering crowds below.

As a footnote in concert with Mussolini, Mussert wrote a letter to the Pope in 1936, in an (unsuccessful) attempt to persuade the pope to modify the completely negative attitude of the Dutch bishops towards the NSB version of fascism The Germans were very aware of this letter - it was found in Himmler's files - and it may have been one of the reasons they kept Mussert on a short leash.

Lest we forget

22 January 2009 at 12:00  
Anonymous That's it then said...

The BNP are correct after all, Mass immigartion is part of the EU plan to create their EU Empire, they knew we would never surrender soverignty so we are to be flooded out of existance.

Political correctness, is simply a Psychological bind to prevent us doing anything about it.

PS the BNP Wesbite seems quite reasonable to me.
apart from the BBC News, how do I know Nick Griffin is an evil mass murderer who eats kittens and babies, should I just take peoples word for it.

22 January 2009 at 12:27  
Anonymous Anti British Psyops said...

Griffin couldn't possibly be all of those things because, neither the British Police, the British army and the the British People would not allow it, so it is in fact all lies and EU propaganda.

The sooner people wake up to the Psyops being played against them while they are demographically exterminated, the less messy the turnaroud will be.

Does your grace not think that the Mass extermination camps (misleadingly called pregnancy 'advice' centres) we have in this country are something to do with this.

Your own blog reports that Westminster has presided over the abortion of 6 Million British babies.
This is yet another example of the Problem Reaction solution paradigm, teach young children about sex in school, undermine parental and school authority, promote smut in the media.
Then when things get our of control, we can Sterilise them.
Who was it promoted 24hr drinking, relaxed drug laws, prohibited teachers and parents from disciplining children.

Dawn Primorolo Proposes to Sterilise British Schoolgirls

40 Yrs of Murdering our unborn, CAUTION GRAPHIC IMAGES

6 Million abortions, many of these dead children would have by now been having children of their own.

Does nobody else see what is going on here, 6 MILLION Abortions.

DO I have to spell out why Westminster has just recently made abortions easier to obtain with the recent embriology bill.

Can you not see, isn't this what communists always do.

count the number of 'Posive' scenes in programmes like Eastenders, Coronation street.
what do you think the purpose of these shows is, they are not to reflect our society, but to shape it, NEGATIVELY.

Look at the Jeremy Kyle show, Street Wars, Road Wars, the Big Brother Show with its carefully selected contestants.
and a police unit watching their every move.
These shows do not reflect our society, they are carefully crafted to create it.

The BNP the enemy? I don't think so.

22 January 2009 at 12:47  
Anonymous winston Smith said...

Newspeak is here!

22 January 2009 at 13:30  
Anonymous Shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

The left-wing dhimmi Runnymede Trust has claimed that white disadvantage has nothing to do with race:

"The white working classes are discriminated against on a range of different fronts, including their accent, their style, the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the social spaces they frequent, the postcode of their homes, possibly even their names,' it said. 'But they are not discriminated against because they are white.'

The Runnymede Trust's main claim to fame (or notoriety) is coining the word 'Islamophobia'

Meanwhile, Manchester (the corroded buckle on the Northern rust belt) hosts an ethnics only jobs fair:

The message that the BBC (remember the 'White Season'), NuLabour, the Runnymede Trust and all the rest of the Metropolitan Marxist Elite are sending to the indigenous provincial proles is:

"You deserve to be at the bottom of the heap because you are a bunch of hideously white non-vibrant chavs. So learn to live with it"

This is, of course, a message of utter despair. If the BNP can replace it with a message of hope, then electoral success will be guarranteed.

22 January 2009 at 13:49  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

It is truly amazing that whenever the perverted hordes of islam force a western european government to grovel shamelessly,the first thing to happen is that all the other western europeans attack each other on thier behalf with stupid "cultural marxists"key words,knuckledragger,nazi,racist etc,when the real issue is OUR hard won freedom of speech,we are all well aware that freedom means absolutely nothing to the islamo-tards,but they are delighted to see such a wide dissention amongst thier enemies making thier conquest so much easier,it seems to me that you would all be far happier giving up your fundamental freedoms and becoming muslim slaves,than to bear the illusory stigma of being branded "racist".These muslim retards have not come here to share your countries with you and engage in the democratic life of your countries,they come to impose the will of allah,and if you will not submit they will kill you once they have sufficient numbers,they will not debate the issue and any-one who thinks that dialog will achieve anything but an opportunity for them to regroup for thier next phase of conquest is as deluded and as fearfull of the true reality as carrick is.In a war ,unless you are as merciless,vicious,brutal and uncompromising as your opponent,you may as well surrender,because your action will be worse than futile,and meerly postpone the inevitable defeat.Unless we all support geert to the maximum,you will dishonour all the countless lives that bought your freedom,and which you squander so thoughtlessly.

22 January 2009 at 14:23  
Anonymous an ex-apprentice said...

Your Grace,
A number of comments seem to be missing the point. It is not a question of Holland or Muslims anywhere driving this. The criminalisation of insult or offence is being driven by the EU and the ECHR.

There seems, to me, to be a disconnect between what we know for a fact about the EU; its direction of travel, the democratic deficit, the absence of accountability etc etc, and a full and complete willingness to grasp the fact that we have allowed this to happen and, yes indeed, we really are actually that stupid.

To wail and gnash teeth over Holland or muslims on this issue is pointless, because you ignore the elephant in the room.

22 January 2009 at 15:51  
Anonymous Your Grace, May I recommend a few minutes of your time be spent said...

Watching this 8 min video.

22 January 2009 at 16:38  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Ex-Apprentice,

His Grace is delighted that the elephant has been uncovered, and that you have nudged this comment thread to the nexus of the matter.

22 January 2009 at 16:55  
Anonymous offended said...

See but i find that being a muslim or following muslim culture results in some people of the EU having difficulty accepting. What part does religion have in british or eu's culture. Freedom of expression should then include freedom to express a) your religion and b) your discontent with someone if they incite hate against you. Then it is left up to the courts to judge whether the hate was sufficient to be deemed a threat to the nation. You will always find a rag tag group of radicals who take religion out of context and incite violence, and these are both religions and non religious people. Mr. Wilders falls into this category.
The problem with mr wilders movie was that it targeted a specific crowd in tense times to gain votes and to incite hate. Had he really wanted to vioce an opinion he would have first taken his opinions to a local imam and asked clarification on certain bits as to whether his understanding matched that of the wider muslim population. See because if muslims themselves don't think in those terms then mr Wilders movie is flawed...
I applaud the govt. and their efforts to curb unnecessary hate and violence.

22 January 2009 at 17:06  
Anonymous judith said...

'Offended' - would that be a Sunni imam, a Shi'a imam or a Wahabi imam he should have consulted?

If I wished to make a film about the connection between Christianity and the insane carnage of the Medieval Crusades, would you suggest that I should earnestly seek the opinion of a local vicar as to whether it might upset the Catholics?

22 January 2009 at 18:28  
Anonymous Just watched Obama State dept message said...

Sounds like more mid east Wars to me.

And actaully yes I agree with Ex apprentice, Westminster and the EU are the Real enemies of the British and european peoples.

22 January 2009 at 20:37  
Anonymous Shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

Another European politician prosecuted for criticising Islam.

"Vienna - Austrian far-right parliamentarian Susanne Winter was convicted Thursday of incitement because of her anti-Muslim statements, including the claim that Islam's prophet Mohammed was a paedophile. A court in Winter's home town of Graz also found the 51-year-old politician guilty of humiliating a religion. She was sentenced to a fine of 24,000 euros (31,000 dollars) euros and a suspended prison term of three months, Austrian news agency APA reported.

The politician, who took a seat in parliament last fall for the Freedom Party (FPOe), made the anti-Islamic remarks in January 2008. She also proposed in a discussion with students that Muslim men should commit bestiality rather than making "indecent advances" on girls. "

- How can you 'humiliate' a religion? And if a 50 year old man who 'thighs' a six year old and rapes her when she is nine isn't s pedophile, then who is?,austrian-far-right-legislator-convicted-of-anti-muslim-incitement.html

22 January 2009 at 20:46  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

" Westminster and the EU are the Real enemies of the British and european peoples."

This is Politically Correct. I keeps you from touching the Liberal holy cow: "The Freedom of the Individual", non-discrimination on the basis of group attributes. The EU is using Islam as a weapon, does this mean only the EU is dangerous? Or are they both dangerous?

Finally, do you think immigration should be restricted? Any answer other than yes practically amounts to endorsement of the EU.

22 January 2009 at 20:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The religion of man has many names, Communism,Socialism,Fascism,Secular Humanism,and The New world Order.
It parades under the slogans:Human Rights,the Rights of Man,the Dignity of man,Humanism,Reason,Enlightenment, Political Correctness, and Social Democracy.
They prevail because the populous is ignorant and apathetic.
The object=control.

22 January 2009 at 21:22  
Anonymous Shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...

Leading Muslim calls for more attacks on Britain:

"A prominent leader of al-Qaeda has called for attacks in Western countries, particularly Britain, in retaliation for Israel's offensive in Gaza, arguing that London was behind the creation of the Jewish state.

"It's high time that this criminal country, I mean Britain, paid the price of its historic crime," Abu Yahya al-Libi said in a video posted on an Islamist website.

"There is no child who dies in Palestine ... without this being the outcome of the (country) that handed Palestine to the Jews ... Britain."

Libi, whose group was behind deadly attacks in Britain in 2005, is one of the top leaders of al Qaeda believed to be hiding in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Libi told British people to expect reprisals for the Israeli "annihilation campaign" in Gaza.

22 January 2009 at 21:45  
Anonymous Preacher said...

The EU was launched by criminals, thieves & liars, the direputable scum whose egomaniacal aim is power & world domination. To achieve this they will use any & all means.
They will fail. Many have tried, Napoleon, Hitler etc, all have failed.
They will seem to succeed for a time then Antichrist will reign for a season,the world will fall at his feet, Except those that belong to the Lamb of God, they will suffer persecution for a time but then all will be revealed, as the Lord Jesus Christ comes for His Bride, the church.
Then all the perpepetrators of evil will realize that God is & has been in control all the time, He is supreme, so far above them from the start that their plans were as doomed as their future.
"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul?" the truth of this statement will burn like fire as they go to their fate.
Justice will have been done.

23 January 2009 at 01:40  
Blogger USpace said...

And furthermore:
Geert Wilders is no racist. He is simply against out-of-control immigration; and against immigrants who won't assimilate; and some who beat Gays and rape Dutch women for not being covered up.

Muslims are not a 'race', they are followers of a religion and ideology and its Sharia Law.

Most Muslims aren't even Arabs, which by the way, is also not a 'Race'.

Which their duty is, according to their Koran, to spread Sharia law over the whole Earth. It might take 100-200 years, if they succeed.

Is that the kind of world you want for your great-grand children's great-grand children? A Taliban Planet? I bet not.

Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam. Wilders is NOT against Muslims, he is against Islamic Fundamentalism.

You should read the Koran, but be careful, for the Koran prohibits non-Muslims from reading it.

I wonder why.

here’s an absurd thought -
your Supreme God knows
Christ was a pedophile

and a raping terrorist
converting slaves by the sword

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
decide to change your race

just simply change religions
your religion is your race
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
Philosophy of Liberty Cartoon
Help Halt Terrorism Today!

23 January 2009 at 02:43  
Blogger it's either banned or compulsory said...

If those 15 minutes are the full extent of the film I don't see what there is to prosecute. The Muslims condem themselves by their own statements, " Kill Jews " "throw gays off tall buildings " " kill adulterers ".
At worst Geert Wilders might stand accused of promoting extremist Islam by publishing this selection of their own propaganda videos.
Btw Your Grace, I have always chosen to avoid viewing 'beheading' videos as each such view is a victory for the perpetrators; this is the closest that I have unwittingly done so.

Geert Wilders should celebrate this opprtunity to widen the knowledge of his cause in open Court ( or will they hold it in secret ?)

23 January 2009 at 06:13  
Blogger Ayrdale said...

Sir/Madam (It's either banned or compulsory) your post lifted my spirits.
You are quite right. We get swallowed up by awfullness, forgetting the justice of truly liberal free speech and free values.
In the long run, this spite and hate can only have one outcome; and that is always the outcome of truth. Cranmer, your Grace, I salute you.
Let the beheaders and the europhiles have their day, we the people have humanity on our side and we haven't advanced through the f***ing dark ages for nothing.

23 January 2009 at 06:34  
Anonymous Alf Tupper said...


I haven't seen the old 'we are to blame because of the Crusades' gambit for, oh it must be all of a week now.

The Crusades were not embarked upon pre-emptively. They were a response to many years of obstruction, victimisation, savagery and murder by the aggressive power of the new and resentful religion which had laid claim to the region of the Holy Lands.

Nothing has changed much under this here sun.

23 January 2009 at 20:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure it's possible to make a good documentary on the theory that Europe is being changed by an extreme Islamification. A documentary that does not pull its punches...Fitna is not a good documentary.

The angry self-righteousness seems adolescent to me.

The major theme of violent Surah from the Qur'an seems silly when you consider our equivalent passages from the Christian Bible.

Showing ominous pictures of mosques in our cities proves nothing more than the existence of more than one religion in that city.

My impression of Fitna is that it identifies that extremists exist, shows some horrible things they have done, points out that fifteen million people with the same religion as them now live in Europe, then leaps a chasm to suggest that all 15 million are therefore a threat to us. That's pathetic.

Is it incitement to hatred? Let the courts decide.

25 January 2009 at 10:32  
Anonymous Shaven-headed tattooed knuckledragger said...


DA' WA or DAWAH - Propaganda for Islam with the object of converting infidels or producing a sanitized, favourable impression of Islam. May involve Taqiyya (see below)

DAR AL-HARB - The domain of war. All those lands not under Islamic control.

DAR AL-ISLAM - Those lands under Islamic control.

DHIMMI - A non-Muslim who accepts Muslim supremacy and pays the Jizya (protection money - see below)

HARBI - A non-Muslim who does not accept Muslim supremacy and is thus regarded as being at war with Islam. All Harbis must be killed.

INTIFADA - A violent Muslim uprising in Dar al-Harb. In India and Britain this is termed 'Communal violence'

JIHAD - The struggle to destroy Dar al-Harb and make Islam supreme throughout the world.
Jihad has many aspects.

JIZYA - Protection money paid by Dhimmis to their Muslim masters.

KUFFAR - Variant spellings are Kafir, Kaffir, Kuffer etc. A Kuffar is a non-Muslim, there are two types - Dhimmis may be allowed to live, but Harbis must be killed.

NAJIS - Ritually unclean. Kuffars are najis.

RAZZIA - A Violent raid of rape and pillage into Dar al-Harb.

SHAHEED or SHAHID A Muslim who dies in the process of killing Kuffars. He goes to paradise, together with 70 of his nearest relatives.

TAQIYYA - Lies, falsehood and disinformation employed to further the cause of Islam.

26 January 2009 at 19:40  
Anonymous Jeff said...

If the screening of Geert Wilders' documentary is a good initiative, let's hope all free speech champions will now lobby to screen a documentary in the British parliament on Jean-Marie Le Pen's speeches on place of AIDS/HIV patients in Europe:

After all Le Pen enjoys far more
electoral support than what Wilders can dream of in his wildest dreams.

13 February 2009 at 12:13  

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