Thursday, February 19, 2009

Barring Baptists from the UK - would the Government ban Jesus?

Well, why not?

Admit the Muslim extremists, the persecuted homosexualists, the misunderstood paedophiles and anyone and everyone from the European Union. Grant amnesties to the economic migrants, fraudsters and criminals. Let them all stay: give them all a house, a doctor, a dentist, schools, hospitals and thousands of pounds in benefits – whatever they may need to make their lives comfortable.

But, for God’s sake, do not admit anyone whose message might offend Muslims, homosexuals or the Home Secretary

For what it is worth, Cranmer thinks the ‘anti-gay fundamentalist US Christian preacher’ the Reverend Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, is not a very nice chap. His message is un-Christian and manifestly unsympathetic to families who have suffered. He and his family are known for picketing the funerals of US servicemen and railing against the families of dead gay teenagers, proudly telling the mourners that their children are in hell.

It is hardly a gospel of love, and the Reverend Fred Phelps might reflect on the Lord's exhortation to weep with those who weep. The Baptists would probably say that he is not a very good Baptist: baptising by full immersion does not make one so. He must therefore be an extremist Baptist, or a Baptistist.

But as offensive as the Reverend and his misguided family may be, to deny him access to the UK on the grounds that he could spread ‘extremism and hatred’ is yet another nail in the coffin of free speech.

Actually, Cranmer is no longer certain that a coffin exists. He more than half suspects there has already been a clandestine cremation.

On the same grounds of spreading 'extremism and hatred', the Government would have had to bar entry to Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah – indeed, all of the Israelite prophets of the 5th-9th century BC. They fiercely railed against the prevailing culture, immorality, greed and idolatry. Isaiah said people were evil (1:6) and Ezekiel even cooked using human excrement (4:12) to help make his point, which is more than a little 'extreme'. They all publicly terrorised the people with the consequences of God’s judgement should they not repent. They believed themselves to be servants of God, vehicles through whom God himself spoke; divinely appointed to correct illegal beliefs and practices.

They offended by their message, and their words incited hatred.

The Government would probably ban Jesus himself from entering the UK. After all, he clearly caused offence (Mk 6:3; Jn 6:61), and was not overly complimentary towards the Pharisees or the Sadducees. He also had one or two stern words to say to those in government. And, let us not forget, he was a Jew, which might be even more likely to incite hatred from a few in the Muslim community, or Lord Ahmed.

It seems now that one may be denied entry to the UK if one has engaged in ‘unacceptable behaviour’, regardless of whether or not that behaviour has led to a criminal conviction. In frightening Orwellian fashion, the Government has adopted in full the mechanism of ‘Minority Report’ for prophesying criminal activity, and using it to justify depriving innocent people of their liberties and rights.

One is no longer innocent until proven guilty. But neither is one guilty until proven innocent. It is more a case of being guilty if the Home Secretary prophesies that you shall be.

How long, O Lord. How long?


Blogger indigo said...

We've already done the Hitler thing, but I can see a sequel in the pipeline. I don't know about eating your children, but it will certainly end in brutality. Human nature is simply that, and you can't go on repressing everything that is uncomfortable just because you are emotionally inept yourself.

This perpetual neurosis will eventually turn psychotic with disastrous consequences. The world is now crying out for a healing balm of some form, but I don't see it anywhere myself.

19 February 2009 at 16:02  
Anonymous Gnostic said...

This is just another case of New Labour double standards. It's okay to be Muslim and rabidly homophobic but not anyone else.

Here's a British case from three years ago.:

The elderly couple were grilled by the police on suspicion of having committed a hate crime.

Somebody please explain why one group can say what the flaming hell they like and another group gets a visit from the PC (sic) Plod courtesy of the local Gestapo, sorry I mean council.

19 February 2009 at 16:13  
Blogger indigo said...

I preferred the other picture. Is Your Grace feeling uncomfortable with the other one? Was it the reference to eating your children? I thought it made its point rather well, highlighting the nature of our asylum.

It will get gradually worse you know. You may wake up one morning, thinking you are perfectly sane, have no immediate reason not to, thinking that this obvious sanity will be your saving grace, your redeeming right to universal justice: that it will never need explanation. But the more you will try to act sane, the crazier you will start to look: If you smile too much, you're delusional, you;re stifling hysteria; if you don't smile, you're depressed; if you remain neutral, you're emotionally withdrawn, potentially catatonic. The only credentials that will prove your sanity will be to work all the hours under the sun, and moon; spend and buy things; pay taxes, lots of them, and vote. Show any resistance, any concerns, for anything, and you will be clinically insane.

(less is more...The end.)

19 February 2009 at 16:52  
Blogger Harry Hook said...

I'd have thought that 'God Hates Fags'... was in line with Government policy?

19 February 2009 at 17:06  
Anonymous Prepare yourselves said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

19 February 2009 at 17:15  
Blogger Catholic Observer said...

Gordon Brown has invited the Pope to visit Britain:

19 February 2009 at 17:49  
Anonymous Has it really come to this said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

19 February 2009 at 18:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What harm can one more hypocrite do to a country that is full of them!

19 February 2009 at 19:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your grace is incorrect about Ezekiel- he cooked using shit as fuel- tainted food but not poot cuisine. Shit is still used as fuel in Africa, though it is not human in origin.

19 February 2009 at 19:30  
Anonymous It wasn't Me said...

Not directly on topic, but I know how His Grace and His communicants like to keep abreast of these things.

Pope Benedict’s Four Pillars for Europe

John Allen is one of America’s foremost Catholic writers on Vatican issues. This excerpt from a recent address in Ireland is noteworthy. Allen enumerates Pope
Benedict’s four pillars of thinking “with regard to the process of European integration”. They are worthy of reading for anyone interested in keeping abreast of current Vatican thinking about Europe and its relations in the world and with the Roman Catholic Church. You can read the article HERE.

Here is one quote regarding the Christian identity of Europe. “Suffice it to say that it is a bedrock conviction of Benedict XVI and senior Catholic officials that an integrated Europe cannot simply be an open market or an arrangement for mutual defense; it must in the first place be a community of values, and that those values ultimately rest upon the Christian foundations of Europe.”

Allen says Benedict feels the church must strengthen itself and bind up its divisions if it is to make any serious impact in, and upon, a future Europe. The Vatican sees Europe as being a major force in future world affairs, perhaps the deciding player in the critical issues facing the world.

19 February 2009 at 20:01  
Blogger ZZMike said...

We Yanks have been putting up with this scoundrel for some time.

I suppose one might make a case for comparing banning Phelps with banning Wilders, but I argue that such a comparison is untenable.

Wilders is good, Phelps is evil - it's as simple as that. What you point out may not have made the front pages over there, but it is aptly summed up with:

"He and his family are known for picketing the funerals of US servicemen and railing against the families of dead gay teenagers, proudly telling the mourners that their children are in hell."

There are some voices that no longer need to be heard - even over here in the US.

I believe we should be open-minded, but not so open that our brains fall out.

If you would not invite him into your house, why invite him into your country?

I think perhaps the OT prophets you cite are but "straw men" - and they didn't even get a good reception in their own time.

As some are wont to say, "that was then, this is now".

But I think you may err in the reasons why Jesus might not be welcome in Mr Brown's England. I think it would simply and only be that He is not Mulsim, and He would surely try to convince people that it is God, not Allah, to whom we owe allegiance.

"... regardless of whether or not that behaviour has led to a criminal conviction."

From the Wiki on Phelps:

"Phelps was first arrested in 1951 and found guilty of misdemeanor battery after attacking a Pasadena police officer. He has since been arrested for assault, battery, threats, trespassing, disorderly conduct, contempt of court, and several other charges; ... Though he has been able to avoid prison time, he has been convicted more than once..."

You really don't want him over there - but I would be glad to make a contribution to his one-way plane ticket to Heathrow.

Finally, it looks as if Formerly Great Britain is becoming an invitation-only event (Muslims excepted (or maybe, "accepted")).

19 February 2009 at 21:29  
Anonymous desperately seeking susan said...

Barring Baptists from the UK - would the Government ban Jesus?

Is he is not here already?

Don't answer that, I am being facetious.

19 February 2009 at 23:50  
Anonymous better to be anonymous said...


One could argue that he is concerned for souls.

"what profit a man if he saves his life but....."

What would Jesus be saying at those funerals? This is what I don't get about Christians, they worship this bloke, but pay scant attention to what he has been quoted as saying.

Straw men? Well, no they didn't get a good reception, that's the whole point isn't it? They were relaying what God had told them to in order to bring a sinful Israel into repentance for their evil ways: Israel was defaulting on its part of the covenant, which meant certain clauses of punishment would be contractually enforced, and they usually were. For what would have been the point of a covenant otherwise? And this is were we are up to now, I believe. God has turned the other cheek so to speak, and while the cat is away the mice run a mock.

Its human nature. Leave humans alone, and they do what they want to do above and beyond the things which they should and shouldn't do. Its been the same since Adam and Eve, God laid down the rules, but the second His back was turned they were plundering the sacred orchard.

We either have a moral code handed to us by a God, which has consequences for breach of contract, or, we have a suggestion book of ideas that serve no purpose except to repress those who are daft enough to believe it. I am not a believing Christian, but I think we either abandon the Christian ethical code, or rewrite it in the form of clear statutory law with firm and clear denouncement of any contract that people may feel obliged to hold to from any God. Then we can start banning these people justifiably, but at the moment Freddy Phelps is simply quoting the Bible, and that is not illegal, the last time I checked.

20 February 2009 at 00:18  
Anonymous HaHaHa said...

The indigo child movement is an anti-Semitic conspiracy. They believe the God of Israel is a wicked god who wants to start an authoritarian world government to enslave the ones who have spiritually evolved to a higher level. They also believe Jews and Christians worship the gnostic demiurge who created matter in which to torture and mutilate Lucifer's creations.

Here's a link to an "Indigo Child" website detailing their ideas about shape-shifting Lizard Conspiracies.

20 February 2009 at 00:32  
Anonymous not a machine said...

it is the first time i have reason to correct his grace , but your reference to jn 6:61 must be john6.61 either that or my NIv translation does not give the correct abreviation.

i am of course not bereft of typos my self.

as for god hates FAGs i am sure he is opposed to smoking , for it is hardly food and on reflection ezekiel 4:12 is either an early energy renewables suggestion , or a reference to a lack of enviroemntal health advice .

but to be serious for a moment , your grace may be interested to learn that the student athiest movement is to unite !! it is rather a shame that they cannot debate for if they could , they would find themselves in the dead end that they always find .

a very clever understanding of our enviroment or thoughts does not dis prove god.

but back to homosexuality , it is not equal , in its basic description of its sexual act it is not equal , we are then asked to consider the love that is shared between same is the same as that between hetro wishing to reproduce to make a family.

i am quite sure that jesus would have shown pity to a victim , however gay people no longer want pity , they are not supposed to be sinful awaiting the wrath of god ??.

yet there is somthing which is hetrosexual and ordained , a pattern of life through which god works , the current secret gay clergy problem , is a sin of the church as we may be being fooled that a small ammount of light is the alpha and omega of the description of love , the church therefore is incapacitaed to preach the fullness of htero sexual marriage .

jesus would avoid the simplified t love , revulsion construct so liked by those of us that see imanent disater through a corrupt construct, however i think that he would have eluded to where equality would lead the holy to a dead end.

jesus is the saviour of mankind , the gross warps and corruptions are easy for most christians to understands that is what has so nourished our society over the hundreds of years , a code of ethics is puesdo religion without the mystery.

like our priminister and is physcophants , he has corrupted somthing to achieve equality through the mis perscription of love and victimhood . equally our churches have lost there internal workings and theology , there treasury appears to have been cleaned out , and they can only find a thin soup instead of strong meat .

there are a number of variants of psuedo religion , some of them with well packed happy clappy churches , that have lost the message of self improvement/understanding in favour of this months book or this months gifting .

the personal cognition of the bible to its people , to try and live a blameless life is being subverted into a fake belief in interconnected through media platforms and devices.

some of us see the problems of this and have disturbing nightmares of what is to come , as personal moraility is not an "app" for ones i phone , unless that is the brian is just a wafer of silicone !!. and life a complex chaotic interaction of electrons!!

down with FAGS i might be more supportive if it was an acronym for Frequently Afiixed Gadget
Sideling real creativity

20 February 2009 at 01:43  
Blogger Manfarang said...

My American colleagues were sitting in the teachers room. In walked a teacher of British origin.He asked,"Can I bum a fag off someone?".
The Americans collapsed laughing.

20 February 2009 at 02:35  
Anonymous some bloke said...

I'd let the Westboro folks in with a one way ticket to Luton central.

20 February 2009 at 06:00  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Perhaps they won't be outside the Israeli Embassy calling for the death of Jews and Israelis, nor beating up passers-by....surely this is the type of behaviour favoured by the British Government.....there has been little action apart from policemen running away from the nascent Intifada in London

20 February 2009 at 09:05  
Blogger FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...

I'm gay and I have no issue with Phelps and his friends entering a country and spreading their filth.
I'd much rather have the chance to argue with them in person, than have government denying me the opportunity.
Better still, I'd take them into a gay bar and set a load of lesbians, drag queens and camp boys onto them.

But its been a bad week for free speech in Britain, with this coming hot on the heels of the Gert Wilders ban- and he's a top bloke.
Britian has been most inconsistent as we all know that Islam is the most hompohobic of religions.
I have said as much on my blog Barnsley Bill.

I often follow up your commentary at my other blog No Minister.

Both blogs are New Zealand-made but myself and Barnsley are both English.

Everyone is free to pop over for a look.

20 February 2009 at 09:13  
Anonymous indigo said...


With reference to your lizard revelation. I don't personally go in for it myself, but it is no less shamefully inventive than what many people are prepared to believe. Leaving aside other religions, lets consider the Christian. I personally believe that religion of any sort is detrimental to the progress of humanity. People seem to have this innate capacity to make any story up and just cling to it. Things that they know can't be true. People who are otherwise so rational about everything else, and then they will believe that on Sunday they are drinking the blood of a 2000 yr old God.

Its one thing to believe that Lizards are controlling the world, but how absurd are these things:

talking snakes; giants; demons; angels; 900 yr old people; wooden arks; raising the dead; parting of seas; walking on water......

The list goes on and on and on....cuckooo!

Don't be fooled into the lotto mentality of:

"you can't get saved if you don't play"

"you got to be in it to win it"

It is all insanity; lizards, bibles, demons, angels, its all fear based crap.


20 February 2009 at 10:01  
Anonymous indigo said...


If you are gay then you are not with the programme. It is clear in the bible that you are an abomination, so your views are a worthless contribution to the Christian debate no matter how much bleating you do. If you want sex with other men, its the church of Satan for you old bean.

20 February 2009 at 10:07  
Anonymous Lizard Man said...

You know, when you take out all the weird crap out of the New Testament, you are left with a marvelous piece of writing which stands alone as a supreme ethical philosophy.

Consider the words of some ex American Presidents:

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches"
Benjamin Franklin

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"
Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson actually wrote his own version of the New Testament, The
Jefferson Bible
, leaving out all the weird shit. Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.

20 February 2009 at 10:59  
Anonymous len said...

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in Him might not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

The pharisees brought a woman caught in the act of adultery to Jesus ( as a test to see if the Messiah was liberal in matters of the law of God)
Jesus didn`t condemn the woman ,not because He was a liberal,not because He condoned her sin, but because the men who brought her were hypocrites.
Jesus was the only one without sin, who could have condemned her but he forgave her and told her to go to and sin no more.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ reveals the love and mercy of God.

20 February 2009 at 19:21  
Anonymous HAHAHOLO said...

Indigo 20 February 2009 10:01

Judging from your lengthy response you must be really intimidated. Which means you are guilty. Denial is always evidence of guilt.

20 February 2009 at 21:36  
Blogger FAIRFACTS MEDIA said...


If you are gay then you are not with the programme. It is clear in the bible that you are an abomination, so your views are a worthless contribution to the Christian debate no matter how much bleating you do. If you want sex with other men, its the church of Satan for you old bean.

But Indigo, that's how God made me. It took a while to accept it, but that's what HE did.
Aren't we all the Lord's creation?

21 February 2009 at 00:06  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

No more than God "made" me a fornicating hypocrite you self deceiving sin apologist.

21 February 2009 at 01:58  
Anonymous tiberswimmer said...

It has just struck me that Gordon Brown himself ia a rather compelling argument in favour of clerical celibacy.

21 February 2009 at 02:55  
Anonymous len said...

Jesus said "You must be born again"
Because you have a soul, you live in a body, BUT YOU ARE A SPIRIT.
If you are not re- born or re-deemed your spirit, everyones spirit, was corrupted at the fall of man.
It is this corrupted spirit that is the driving force in your life, which is feeding information into your mind.
This is not an anti-gay thing , but all sin comes from the same source.
Look around when God created the world He said "It is good".
Is it good now?
The cross and rebirth are Gods solution to all humanities ills.

21 February 2009 at 14:09  
Blogger ZZMike said...

better to be anonymous: "What would Jesus be saying at those funerals? ... but pay scant attention to what he has been quoted as saying."

I can excuse your ignorance of the Bible, as you've most likely not read it ("... I don't get about Christians..."). Jesus said not one word about homosexuality. And He certainly didn't tell anyone to desecrate the funerals of warriors.

"... at the moment Freddy Phelps is simply quoting the Bible..."

If you don't see the difference between what he's doing, and "simply quoting", well, decorum prevents me from abusing the hospitality of our excellent host.

mr lizard: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"
Thomas Jefferson

To paraphrase one of Great Britain's leading lights:

"Except for all the rest".

22 February 2009 at 06:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would have banned Phelps and his gang from entering the UK, but not because of their views. They are entitled to hold and voice those views.

It is their track record of invading and desecrating the funeral services of servicemen and veterans. British mourners should never have to put up with such antics.

23 February 2009 at 22:05  

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