Friday, February 13, 2009

Schism - the ‘Christian' Fitna

Dear Lord Pearson and Baroness Cox,

The above video – ‘Schism’ – features exhortations to violence from the Holy Bible juxtaposed with acts of violence and war-mongering. It may be considered crude and simplistic, like Fitna - a caricature designed to offend. The Christians who feature may be viewed as extremists, for they talk of being ‘trained' to be part of ‘God's Army’.

It is made by a Saudi national by the name of Raed Al-Saeed.

Please would you invite him to the House of Lords in order that he may screen his film and participate in discussion and debate.

Cranmer is sure that Mr Al-Saeed would not be barred from entering the UK.

But only because Christians are not using the Bible as justification for flying planes into buildings, suicide bombings, mutilation, decapitation or murder.

His Grace looks forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,


Anonymous Gnostic said...

An open and honest debate would be nice, your Grace. Let our ruling elite judge for themselves how these two films compare. I wonder if there will be any takers? I won't be holdidng my breath.

13 February 2009 at 12:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmmm Fitna had literally hundreds of sources and only scraped the surface in 15 minutes of footage.

Schism had 3 sources (british soldiers beating up rock throwers)
A documentary from the bible belt of southern america
CNN footage from Iraq

Hardly a proportionate response. That is Islam in a nutshell though. Lots of noise and no substance. Picking fights against stronger opponents and whining about the smackdown they recieve.

Islam has never ruled the world and never will. Get over it.

13 February 2009 at 13:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous 13:07

"To the Arab Nation it was as a birth from darkness into light; Arabia
first became alive by means of it. A poor shepherd people, roaming
unnoticed in its deserts since the creation of the world: a Hero-Prophet was sent down to them with a word they could believe: see, the unnoticed becomes world-notable, the small has grown world-great; within one
century afterwards, Arabia is at Grenada on this hand, at Delhi on
that;--glancing in valor and splendor and the light of genius, Arabiashines through long ages over a great section of the world. Belief is great, life-giving. The history of a Nation becomes fruitful,soul-elevating, great, so soon as it believes. These Arabs, the man Mahomet, and that one century,--is it not as if a spark had fallen, onespark, on a world of what seemed black unnoticeable sand; but lo, thesand proves explosive powder, blazes heaven-high from Delhi to Grenada! I said, the Great Man was always as lightning out of Heaven; the rest ofmen waited for him like fuel, and then they too would flame."


13 February 2009 at 13:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As you can see no-one is calling for this to be banned or for mass demonstrations. That's the difference.....

13 February 2009 at 13:42  
Anonymous no nonny said...

It would be great: and the contrast on the media screens of the world would be sublime....

13 February 2009 at 13:45  
Blogger Microcosm said...

"Islam has never ruled the world and never will. Get over it."

Well said and a very good point!

That is why we should recognise the recent pantomime for what it was, Establishment pet muslim Lord Ahmed plays big bad wolf, Zionist Wilders tries to enter Britain and is turned away by Marxist Jew Milliband.

behind you!

13 February 2009 at 14:21  
Anonymous len said...

Looking forward to the response Your Grace?
me too !!!

13 February 2009 at 14:27  
Blogger Fred Preuss said...

Compare the last time the Knights of Malta or the Covenanters killed people with what's going on today.
A false equivalence if there ever was one.

13 February 2009 at 15:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 13:19

Anyone can cut and paste a passage. Quite simply Islam has never conquered :-

France, Britain, Russia, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Austria, Luxembourg, Iceland, South Africa, Australia, America, New Zealand to name but a few. Like I said, never ruled the world, never will.

It's a shame there has to be extremeist nutcases in every walk of life, but there is, for that reason multi-culturalism will never work.

13 February 2009 at 15:39  
Blogger Dr.D said...

There is nothing actually in the Bible to specifically justify any of the actions shown in Schism, unlike the very specific instructions in the Quran to kill Jews and Christians. The Bible has no instructions to kill muzlims, it has no instructions to convert anyone by the sword, and it condemns all murder, without any sort of weasel words such as the Quran uses to say that killing unbelievers is OK. If Christians kill anyone, they may, or may not, be acting as Christians, but they cannot be accused of acting on any specific Biblical instruction.

Schism is a relatively harmless film, and there would be no harm done in allowing it to be shown to rational people anywhere (this probably of necessity excludes muzlims since so few of them are rational). It emptiness exposes itself rather readily to anyone who is familiar with what is actually happening in the world.

13 February 2009 at 15:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'This move is done by Rael Aseed.'
Who he got translate stuff?

13 February 2009 at 15:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 15:39

Shouldn't we anonymouses be in agreement? It's us vs them remember.

The point of the quote was to highlight the incredible growth of Islam in that relatively short period of time. It may not have been the world, but it was most of what they knew the world to be. And, as Carlyle said a couple of hundred years ago, these people had been mere shepherds in the backwaters of civilization (or the cradle, depending on how you want to look at it).

Microcosm has it right about the [Jewish] contest between Zionism and Marxism. As us Brits no longer have Imperialism to shout about, we're really just bystanders in this Western clash of ideas. Personally, I think Marxism is on the way back in - so maybe Miliband is riding the right horse in this race.

13 February 2009 at 16:00  
Anonymous ever anon said...

Have I missed something? When did marxism leave? I thought the drive here was to remove it for the first time in decades...

13 February 2009 at 16:53  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

I just left some comments under that video:

DutchLionFrans (12 minuten geleden)
What a PERVERSION! You have no idea of Biblical Christianity where Jesus Christ - incontrast to the Old Testament law - an eye for an eye which Jews still practise - commands His followers to even love our enemies! Giving the perfect examply by His death at the cross by the Jews - who accused Him for 'blasphemy!' The WAR this woman and the children talk about is a SPIRITUAL war! Muslims do not fight a spiritual war. 2: The Koran can not be taken out of context, because the Koran HAS NO CONTEXT! !
DutchLionFrans (7 minuten geleden)
The Koran is arranged by the lenght of the Suras! The Bible is arranged totally different and has a context. Geert Wilders 'film is showing verses of the Koran that muslims point to and use to do all their deeds of violance, harted, murders, terrorism. The verses you quote here, are never used by Christians to go out an kill. Neither Christians, nor Jews have gone out to destroy mosques when muslims say or do evil. Wherever muslims show up there is hatred, unrest, injustice, violance, murder.
DutchLionFrans (4 seconden geleden)
I commend you to go to the website .spiritlessons d o t com There you find testimonies of people who were in hell and/ or heaven. ONLY JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE YOU FROM HELL! For He payed the penalty for your sins and the sins of everybody! Now you muslims are full of the fear of death! Jesus Christ lives! Mohammed is dead! I rather follow One Who is alive, than a dead man! Jesus has appeared to many muslims even: go to /muslims4jesus on youtube and listen to the many tesimonies of ex-muslims!

Geert Wilders Speaks: Anti-Koran Film "Fitna" (Part 1 of 2)
Geert Wilders Speaks: Muslims & Tolerance (Part 2 of 2)

Critiquing Islam: Wafa doing what Wafa does best

13 February 2009 at 17:21  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

Schism is fairly thin on content. Still, I wish I could debate it at the House of Lords as I could promote my idea that Western politics is today driven by a kind of degenerate pseudo-Christianity.

13 February 2009 at 17:23  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

Here is the original FITNA:
Fitna (English) Part 1/2 (Full 16min version)
Fitna (English) Part 2/2 (Full 16min version)

Fitna - Nederlands (volledige versie)

13 February 2009 at 17:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the text of the speech Wilders was due to deliver at the private gathering in the Lords:


13 February 2009 at 17:42  
Anonymous not a machine said...

a curious lack of the beheading if innocents , or the terrorist bombing of them ??

it may well be easy to take bits of holy scripture and constrew it as barbaric , however the evidence would suggest that islam does barbaric things to those it sees as its enemy ,its in FITNA

13 February 2009 at 18:24  
Blogger Paulo Calil said...

The film is justified on the basis of the many Christian terrorists organizations, right?

These extremists who blow themselves up and kill thousands in terrorists acts in the name of Jesus Christ, isn't that correct?

Oh, wait... it doesn't exist?

Well, so I guess Mr. Al-Saeed is nuts...

13 February 2009 at 19:38  
Blogger Paulo Calil said...

By the way, no words from warmonger Jesus himself?

13 February 2009 at 19:40  
Anonymous dozey said...

HH @17:23 - "I could promote my idea that Western politics is today driven by a kind of degenerate pseudo-Christianity."

Yes - I do agree with you. Only I come from a slightly different angle in suggesting that the communists (Antichrist) deliberately pervert Christianity and its methods, turning them to marxist/caliphate ends. When Christians recognize the patterns -well of course they seem degenerate and pseudo: they are.

Thus the educational system, which you may already have addressed. Clearly, we wouldn't ever have had one without Christians - who made it work quite well in a search for truth and understanding. Commies usurp it, realizing the usefulness of education for control of society. And they're not too hot on truth etc... So, what's education been doing for us lately?

The one who got me on this tack, though, is Freire, who describes Che Gevara's "communion" ["fusion"] with the peasants of the Sierra Maestra. The guerilla's method involves being "human, empathetic, loving, communicative, and humble, in order to be liberating."*** Sounds familiar to me - how about you?

Now I'm no commie, but I think it's useful to know the enemy; and Freire also describes cultural invasion - and ways to combat it- rather handily.**** The topic is especially relevant to the present discussion because one of its methods is the limiting of free expression; another is the business of convincing the invadee of its inferiority. Uh huh?

***Freire, Paolo. "Pedagogy of the Oppressed." Translated by Myra Bergman Ramos. New York: Continuum International Press, 1970; 170, 171.

****Ibid 152-167.

13 February 2009 at 20:20  
Blogger ZZMike said...

It didn't occur to me till the other day: is it ususal to have films shown in the House of Lords? And if so, is there popcorn?

Just wondering.

Anonymous: Islam has never ruled the world and never will. Get over it."

I suspect there's more than one Anonymous posting. That's the only explanation for his other quote, from Mr Carlisle:

"... within one century afterwards, Arabia is at Grenada on this hand, at Delhi on that ..."

He wasn't exaggerating. They conquered the known world - more than the Roman Empire. I think we all know they didn't get that far by handing out tracts on street-corners.

Anonymous[1]: "Quite simply Islam has never conquered :-
France, Britain, Russia, Holland, Denmark, ......."

OK, let's see which countries they did conquer (and it's an incomplete list):

Syria, 637
Armenia, 639
Egypt, 639
North Africa, 642
Tbilisi, 736
Southern Italy, 827
Persia, 651
Transoxiana, 709
Sindh, 712
Hispania (Spain, Portugal, Gibraltar, Andorra), 718
the Caucasus, 750
Crete, 840
Rome sacked, 846

They might have conquered France (which wasn't a country yet), but a heroic Charles Martel turned them back at the Battle of Tours in 732.

Gibraltar is an Islamic name: Jabal Tāriq (Tariq Mountain)

"Shouldn't we anonymouses be in agreement? It's us vs them remember."

Might I suggest two courses of action? 1) post as Anonymous1, Anonymous2, &c; 2) "Choose an Identity".

dutchlionfrans1953: You are correct. For those of us who have actually read the Bible, we realize that the Old Testament is a history of Israel and their covenants with God. It tells what happened. The OT is followed by the New Testament, in which we are given a new commandment, "Love thy neighbor".

The Koran, on the other hand, is a single work, considered the Authoritative Word of Allah, no questions asked or allowed, and what it said in the year 640 or so holds true today.

Not only that, but there are many inconsistencies. Islamic tradition holds that whatever passage comes last, takes precedence. That means that they can quote to us passages that say lovely and wonderful things, that tell us to be kind to everyone (even women), but they also know that there are overriding passages later on.

All Muslims are told to be just like Mohammed. (Details of his personal life are not pretty.)

dozey: Thanks for the reference to the Friere book. (There's a 2-part film out, "Che". You can probably find it on

From what I read of "Pedagogy", I strongly suspect that our new President has read it.

13 February 2009 at 21:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a fundamental difference at the core of the two religions, regardless of what Muslims might argue. Mohammed was a military commander, who personally butchered a variety of people and ordered the deaths of others, in his drive to impose Islam. Jesus preached non-violence. Whatever the practitioners of Christianity have done, that difference fundamentally affects any dialogue about the role of religion in society today.

14 February 2009 at 11:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity is
Islam = submission through fear.

Christianity= Obedience through love.

14 February 2009 at 14:23  

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