Wednesday, April 08, 2009

Tony Blair lectures the Pope on homosexuality

The spirit of Protestantism is everywhere. Tony Blair has told Pope Benedict XVI that His Holiness is wrong on homosexuality – ie, that homosexual relations are not objectively disordered and that the blurring between the sexes will not lead to the destruction of the human race. The former prime minister's conversion to Rome was not life-transforming; instead, he seeks to mould a church in his image. He has not quite nailed his 95 theses to the door of The Vatican, but he does make a bid for democracy to enter the Church’s moralising when he points out the disparity between the teaching on faith and morals of the Magisterium and a ‘poll of the congregation’ done in a ‘well-attended Catholic Church’. The former, he asserts, belongs to a bygone era: it is mainly the thinking of older Catholics with ‘entrenched attitudes’. The latter is more ‘liberal minded’.

Neither of these assertions is true, but it is just the sort of Leftish-liberal pap the BBC loves to spout. It may be an unpalatable truth, but the Church is supposed to be 'out of step with public opinion'; it is not supposed to dance to the tunes of each focus group; its bishops are not supposed to sway, like scurvy politicians, with each and every wind that blows in whichever direction.

But Mr Blair asserts that His Holiness must begin ‘re-thinking the issue’. And if he must re-think, the only inference to be drawn is that the Pope is wrong. With supreme irony, the former Anglican demands a 'reformation of attitudes'.

This is interesting, for when the Pope promulgates a dogma on matters of faith and morals, he has the capacity to pronounce infallibly ex cathedra. And the position of Pope Benedict on homosexuality is consistent with sacred Scripture, sacred tradition and the sacred Magisterium: the teaching is perfectly consonant with orthodoxy and the infallibility of the Church. Homosexuality is ‘against nature’, as St Paul said, and so the Church has historically taught that same-sex relations are a sin, which Rome has categorised as the 'mortal' variety.

The Vatican and Pope Benedict represent some of those 'forces of conservatism' so despised by Tony Blair. By challenging the traditional teaching, he is presuming to know better than the Pope in exactly the same manner as those in another place presume to know better that than the bishops of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales.

Good grief, even Cranmer knows that Roman Catholicism is not like à la carte Anglicanism: one may not choose one dimension of the Magisterium and pour scorn upon the rest; one may not prefer one ecumenical council over another; one may not be ‘a pro-abortion Catholic’ any more than one may be a paedophile priest. And for Pope Benedict, being a 'gay Catholic' is tantamount to flooding Africa with condoms.

Of course, some of those Roman Catholics who themselves struggle with homosexuality and who manifest in their inclination the very ‘intrinsic moral disorder’ condemned by Pope Benedict immediately seek to turn the issue away from the topic of homosexuality: Why should Tony Blair demand that the Pope shift his stance on homosexuality when Mr Blair is so clearly wrong on such moral issues as abortion? Mr Blair may be a 'Tablet' type of Roman Catholic, but at least he is honest about it. Some of those on the other side - those with ‘entrenched attitudes’ - frequently manifest in their criticism of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council or their subversive and disrespectful attitudes to their pastors and leaders in England that very spirit of Protestantism which they are so quick to condemn in Tony Blair.

And they fail to appreciate that he is playing an unavoidable religio-political game in his long-prophesied quest to be President of Europe. He has to be seen to be promulgating the secular creed of the European Union over and above the creeds of the Church, for the EU is hostile to religion and to Christianity in particular. By effectively stating that homosexuality is not a sin, thereby overturning two millennia of Christian orthodoxy and riding roughshod over the academic and theological brilliance of Pope Benedict XVI, Tony Blair is making just the right noises and appealing to the very constituency he needs to impress if he is to lead this Godless political entity. God forbid that he might suffer the same fate as the 'misogynistic' and 'homophobic' Rocco Buttiglione.


Blogger Silent Hunter said...

Thank God that whenever I see Tony the Liar and now Tony the Catholic Liar - it just reinforces the rightness of my decision to leave the catholic faith.

Oh hang on.

8 April 2009 at 11:31  
Anonymous mckenzie said...

Redemption. Who said prayers are not answered.

8 April 2009 at 11:46  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

People have to learn again to FEAR GOD!

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." Scripture says in Proverbs 1: 7 !

And: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Proverbs 9:10

The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate."

The arrogance of the former prime Minister...why in the world did he choose to convert to Roman Catholicism?

Did he not realise that this means submission to the head of his church, the pope?

8 April 2009 at 11:50  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Mr Blair is treading on dangerous ground, perhaps he doesn't realize that he's not criticising the pope but the scriptures. He started his "T.B Faith Foundation" with the usual I know better than anyone else, (including God so it seems) & like most other cult leaders, yes I did say CULT he starts by throwing away the rule book replacing it with the one rule, "Do as you please". That this leads to STD'S, misery & often early death is beyond the comprehension of the egotistical Blairs of this world. WARNING! When you stand before the Creator there will be no passing the buck or room to spin or wriggle out. Stop playing Pope, President of Europe etc, get yourself right with God while there is still time.

8 April 2009 at 12:02  
Blogger Jonathan said...

"one may not be 'a pro-abortion Catholic' and more than one may be a paedophile priest."

Freudian slip?

8 April 2009 at 12:44  
Anonymous mckenzie said...

Its simply messing about with scriptures just to suit, which reveals how much you really care. if you don't care enough about the things that you are supposed to care about, then this makes you a nihilist.

Some people think it is important that they actually believe in something. Personally, I am sick of this attitude that we should not argue because everybody is somehow right in their own way. NO! They are not. usually, somebody is right, and somebody is wrong. And who decides this? Well, lets have the balls to argue the point, it has to be better than resorting to some half-arsed haze of moral relativism or irony.

Of course people are entitled to their own opinions. For example, art and music, but some things are simply facts, and if you argue against them, you are wrong, like the sky is blue, the BBC is full of assholes, water is wet, God does not support homosexual activity, etc etc etc, these are facts. Those of us who care enough about what we believe in should not be afraid to speak out and say why. Read out the scriptures. There is no haze of interpretation here; homosexuality is not right in the eyes of God. If you wish to be a champion of the faith, and make magisterial documentaries, and you have homosexual tendencies, then fine, but do not use this as an excuse to incorporate queerness into the faith. QUITE SIMPLY PUT....THERE IS NO FUCKING PLACE FOR IT! If you wish to announce your perverse behaviour to the world, then do so in a way which is in line with the Christian faith. Denounce your perversion, and admit that you know you have something unnatural about you in the eyes of God, and you seek forgiveness. Do not try to mislead the rest of us, our children. This is nothing less than predatory behaviour, sating your appetite for fresh meat.


8 April 2009 at 12:53  
Blogger Christian said...

Cranmer, I am afraid that your criticism of those "with entrenched attitudes" is quite unfair. Given that Vatican II was a pastoral council and made no binding doctrinal statements then saying that one thinks the council to have been unwise is hardly some form of Protestantism. If one said that seminaries, for example, were a foolish invention and that the pre-existing model for training priests was better then one would hardly be being Protestant. Seminaries were ordered by Trent, a full doctrinal council! No, no, no. The Pope and the Council have the right to resolve theological disputes, protect the ever-accepted meaning of Scripture and Tradition, they may even impose punishments on obstinate sinners but they have no right to bind the conscience of Catholics on non-doctrinal, practical matters. It is therefore perfectly reasonable to criticise the liberalisation of religious orders or lax morality amongst clergy. Indeed, Pope Gregory VII actively encouraged such criticism in order to further his reforms. Is not Benedict pretty much doing the same thing?

Liberals and Modernists are quite different, the criticism and try to undermine the immemorial doctrines of the Christian religion - in most ways they are far more heretical than the Protestants.

8 April 2009 at 13:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What Mr Blair is saying in effect is for the Pope to alter or rather ignore THE BIBLE in other to conform with the way of the world.
He as a former leader should know that part of beign a leader is to make or stick with decisions even when they are unpopular to some section of the public.

8 April 2009 at 13:28  
Anonymous len said...

I am a protestant.I believe in sola scripture.
I think the catholic church has got a lot of things wrong, they have put their catholic traditions above the authority of scripture.
However , I am in agreement with the Popes teaching on homosexuality as it is in line with scripture.
Tony Blair is creating his own faith which I believe will be a blending of different faiths, the perfect vehicle for the anti-christ.

8 April 2009 at 13:29  
Blogger Cranmer said...

Mr Christian,

His Grace did say 'some of those...'

The status of Vatican II vis à vis the Church's previous ecumenical councils may (rightly) be a matter of dispute, but the Council has as many advocates as it has detractors. And those detractors may indeed be termed protestant, for they do indeed protest against an authoritative Ecumenical Council of the Church.

Is an English Catholic who perpetually mocks, criticises, undermines and pours scorn upon the Catholic bishops of England in any sense manifesting a spirit of Protestantism? Is this not protesting against the Magisterium? Are they not effectively nailing their 95 theses to the door of Ecclestone Square? Is this not a sin?

8 April 2009 at 13:57  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Perhaps His Holiness should reconsider Blair's conversion and chuck the idiot out on his jug ear.

8 April 2009 at 14:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the Abominable Blair being true to form.
He's just the Hugh Grant version of the Obamanation with an invincible belief in himself, endless self-contradiction, and an insatiable lust for power. (Oh yes, and an insane wife as well.) What is there left for this latter day would-be Caesar but to seek to lay claim to the afterworld as well by rewriting the rules of religion?
He out-Constantines Constantine.

8 April 2009 at 14:38  
Anonymous Chautard said...

Cranmer is correct that English Catholics who mock their bishops, broadcast rumour and innuendo about their bishops, pour scorn on their bishops, are doing nothing to promote the Faith and that such behaviour constitutes grave matter. St Catherine of Siena, in her Dialogue with God, records these words on the subject of how the faithful should react to shortcomings of the ordained:

"You should love them therefore by reason of the virtue and dignity of the Sacrament, and by reason of that very virtue and dignity you should hate the defects of those who live miserably in sin, but not on that account appoint yourselves their judges, which I forbid, because they are My Christs, and you ought to love and reverence the authority which I have given them. You know well that if a filthy and badly dressed person brought you a great treasure from which you obtained life, you would not hate the bearer, however ragged and filthy he might be, through love of the treasure and of the lord who sent it to you. His state would indeed displease you, and you would be anxious through love of his master that he should be cleansed from his foulness and properly clothed. This, then, is your duty according to the demands of charity, and thus I wish you to act with regard to such badly ordered priests, who themselves filthy and clothed in garments ragged with vice through their separation from My love, bring you great Treasures — that is to say, the Sacraments of the holy Church — from which you obtain the life of grace, receiving Them worthily (in spite of the great defects there may be in them) through love of Me, the Eternal God, who send them to you, and through love of that life of grace which you receive from the great treasure, by which they administer to you the whole of God and the whole of Man, that is to say, the Body and Blood of My Son united to My Divine nature."

There may be cases where resistance or speaking out is necessary - e.g. when a bishop promotes heresy, or some such dire necessity. But to imbue the faithful with contempt for their pastors by going on about their eating habits, or second-guessing prudential judgements, is not the conduct of a good Catholic.

As for Blair's attempts at moral theology: I simply hope that there will be a response to his remarks. To have such a public convert promoting sodomy is scandalous.

8 April 2009 at 14:39  
Anonymous paphrand said...

Let's put it this way chautard, is the Pope a Catholic?

To be cont....

8 April 2009 at 14:50  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

Is Blair angling for another new job already? Isn't he supposed to be something or other in the Israel-Palestininan peace talks? Or has he already decided there's no future in that? He needs to be put in some job where he can't do any harm -- unlike PM of Britain, unlike any top post in Brussels -- and is free to spend all his time doing what he likes best, which is looking at his own pictures in the newspapers to make sure they've photographed his teeth from the correct angle.

8 April 2009 at 14:50  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

His Grace is to be congratulated once again on his remarkable talent as a picture editor. His juxtaposition of Ben ’n’ Tony (above left) could hardly be bettered as an illustration for this piece.

Another unforgettable picture from a few days ago was HM the Queen in full England football fan regalia, complete with war paint. And just above her, could that possibly be Henry VIII on the left, playing draughts while attired in a mink stole that would look more appropriate on Bette Davis in a 1940s melodrama?

8 April 2009 at 15:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I think Tony is bored with his new peace role in Palestine. This could be the pressure from his old mate Lord Levy, and from Levy's son also.

8 April 2009 at 15:19  
Anonymous not a machine said...

some people cannot remeber what it was like to be a homosexual in the 60s , the mood was very different and local reprisals by non belivers was not an offence.

so to say it has moved on in that respect is a positive thing.

however one of labours favourite themes (which surfaced a bit yesterday with christian care home drugging) is that the church is full of repressed perverts.

however tony must have his socialist equality hat on for this one , in that the declassification of the act of homosexuality as a sin , would somehow help the roman church to embrace more followers.

this slight of hand that jesus was talking about equality and not seeking salvation .

jesus did say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" making the point that we are all not perfect in seeking god and that we should be careful not to judge when we are ourselves are not perfect before god.

if homosexuality does not hinder your seeking of god , then tony is right , however he should try and justify it , deciding what is sinful and what is not is often the control method of the cult.

it is not that homosexuality exists that is the offence , or that so many see the church as some sort of austere parent telling them how they should play.

it is the making of homsexuality the legal equal same, as marriage and hetrosexual monogamus family.

he is telling us that we should not descriminate and not promote one above the other , which he is wrongly asserting as being erronious judgement.

much of the christian teaching is about living by the spirit as this tells you and helps keep the flesh from wandering into ungodly compromises.

i suspect he thinks he can avoid hurt and exclusion , by not having a position of hatred , but he must realise he is also saying he hates hetrosexual marriage

8 April 2009 at 15:30  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Has anyone else noticed that as Blair ages and his eyebrows change he is beginning to look more mephistophelian? A sort of Jack Nicholson in the Witches of Eastwick.

8 April 2009 at 15:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Catholic, please can I be the first on this thread to distance myself from Mr Blair?

I find the association of Tony Blair with Christianity particularly offensive, because it was arguably under his stewardship that the state started, for the first time, explicitly attacking and undermining our common Christian foundations and attacking the common good itself.

Although under previous administrations, bad things such as abortion were allowed to happen, and homosexuals were free to practise, the state never actively promoted and defended them, enshrined them as human rights in law quite like it did under him.

Never has marriage come under such organised attack. No previous administration would have countenanced the staggering evil of placing children in the hands of homosexuals as adoptive "parents".

No administration would have co-operated in child abuse by the promotion of contraception and abortion to schoolchildren.

Previous administrations were guilty of sins of omission, but none commissioned sin and evil on the scale of the Blair government.

The definition of scandal is the leading of innocent people into sin. I assert that under New Labour the state led more innocent people into sin than at any point in history. This has truly been a scandalous government.

I will find forgiving Mr Blair a very difficult task. I do not think I am quite up to it, not least of all because the full ramifications of this government will not hit home for quite some time.

8 April 2009 at 15:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony Blair is a member of The Christian Socialist Movement, maybe this is the new church? God help us all. Between this and his new faith foundation, I think there is a very strong agenda for control of the church going on.

"I don't make predictions. I never have and I never will."
Tony Blair

"You only require two things in life: your sanity and your wife" Tony Blair

“There is no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: Defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must.”
Tony Blair

8 April 2009 at 15:52  
Blogger Homophobic Horse said...

"No administration would have co-operated in child abuse by the promotion of contraception and abortion to schoolchildren."

It is evil. Only now do I see the spiritually necrotic evil of "Sex Education" for children.

8 April 2009 at 16:38  
Blogger ZZMike said...

"I don't make predictions. I never have and I never will."
Tony Blair

That in itself is a prediction. (Who was the old Greek gentleman who said "All Cretans are liars"'?)

Perhaps Mr Blair has become a cretin.

"And for Pope Benedict, being a 'gay Catholic' is tantamount to flooding Africa with condoms."

"Gay Catholic", like "homosexual marriage", and "liberal Muslim" is an oxymoron.

8 April 2009 at 16:53  
Anonymous len said...

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.
In Revelation 17, the apostate church is described symbolically as a drunken whore with a gold cup in her hand, full of corrupted doctrines, which she made the nations of the earth drink drink ( Rev 14:8)What was the result of the drunken state of Aarons sons?They saw no difference between the Holy things of God, and the common or profane, as a result they offered God the common instead of the sacred.

8 April 2009 at 18:35  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

Since the early 70's, Westminster has aborted well over 6 Million British Babies in their extermination centres, all the while telling us we need more people in this country.
Now they obviously want more, they want to sterilise our kids too.

Not only that they are flooding us out with mass immigration.

Can anyone see a pettern here.

8 April 2009 at 19:51  
Blogger Christian said...

"Is an English Catholic who perpetually mocks, criticises, undermines and pours scorn upon the Catholic bishops of England in any sense manifesting a spirit of Protestantism? Is this not protesting against the Magisterium? Are they not effectively nailing their 95 theses to the door of Ecclestone Square? Is this not a sin?"

Not at all. The spirit of Protestantism is to deny the infallibility of the Pope and Council in areas of doctrine. Criticising incompetent, quasi-heretical and generally counter-productive bishops is perfectly reasonable if those criticisms are well grounded. As I said before, the great reform movement of Gregory VII was largely built upon getting lay people to turn against their incompetent, immoral and generally counter-productive bishops and clergy. That movement laid the groundwork for the "Age of Faith".

8 April 2009 at 22:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony Blair is boxing out of his weight.

Blitzer Ben is bound to put one on his jaw early in the round. If Tony the Pom can stagger to his feet after the compulsory 8 count and continue with his dazzling footwork, he can look forward to a finisher coming right down the middle and its 'Good night Nurse'.

Ben the Hun is a seasoned kampfer schooled in methodical theological ringcraft. Tony the Tickler is totally outclassed here and should never have stepped in the resin. Get the towell ready as well as sutures and a stretcher.

--Mick from Ringside

9 April 2009 at 00:11  
Anonymous patsca said...

When the pope pronounces ex cathedra he is infallible????
How can a mere mortal be infallible?, this man ( the pope) needs a savior like anyone else!
Catholicism is a version of the truth,in fact catholicism lies over the truth like a heavy blanket concealing the truth.
Blair is still wrong though, two wrongs still don`t add up to the truth which resides in Christ alone!

9 April 2009 at 08:28  
Anonymous wonderfulforhisage said...

Your Grace,

Perhaps it was a rather clumsy atempt by our ex Prime Minister to introduce His Holiness to 'the third way'.

9 April 2009 at 20:19  
Anonymous judith said...

Do you think Blair fancies himself as Pope? After all, Benedict's getting on a bit, TB could do a term or so as European President, and then slipslide into the Vatican, hey presto!

And if he's managed to change the rules on homosexuality, then he could change the veto on marriage - Cherie Blair, Mrs Pope.

Oy veh!

Happy Easter

9 April 2009 at 20:47  

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