Thursday, June 11, 2009

Could the BNP now be sued for discrimination?

The far-Left BNP may have won two seats on the Elections to the European Parliament, but, while this success undoubtedly constitutes something of a political and propaganda coup, Cranmer is not so sure that Nick Griffin will consider it much of a blessing when the lawsuits start being delivered.

The BNP’s policies and pronouncements are subject to the Race Relations Act 1976: ‘incitement to racial hatred’ was established in the Public Order Act 1986 and, for publications, in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. ‘Racial hatred’ is defined in law as hatred against a group of persons by reason of the group's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins. Section 18 of the Act says:

A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if —
(a) he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or
(b) having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.

The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 amended the Public Order Act 1986 by adding:

A person who uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, is guilty of an offence if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred.

Freedom of expression is, however, sustained in Section 29J:

Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practising their religion or belief system.

The problem that the BNP now have (as an unincorporated association or even as a ‘private club’) is that they are now in receipt of public funds – and quite a lot of it, if reports are to be believed – for the administration of their representation of the people. They are thereby subject to all EU employment legislation (incorporated into UK law) relating to equality and discrimination.

The BNP operate a screening process to determine eligibility for party membership (limited to ‘indigenous Caucasian and defined ethnic groups emanating from that race’). If a suitably-qualified Asian were to apply to be (say) Mr Griffin’s parliamentary researcher, and Mr Griffin were not inclined to employ the candidate on racial grounds, then a claim could be brought to an employment tribunal.

The fact that this political party is now in receipt of public funds means not only are they obliged to adhere to all equality legislation, but they must be seen to be doing so. There is a statutory requirement on all publicly-funded bodies to be ‘equal opportunities’ employers and so to effectively ensure visible quotas of minority groups. To be otherwise (or, rather, to appear otherwise) is to operate outside of the law: limiting employees to ‘indigenous Caucasians’ is incompatible with public office.

Cranmer hopes to see a steady stream of minority ethnic applicants applying to work for Mssrs Griffin and Brons in the UK and in Brussels. That should give Trevor Phillips at the Equality and Human Rights Commission something to busy him for the next five years.


Anonymous Gaz said...

There is no obligation for 'visible quotas' of minority groups.

11 June 2009 at 09:06  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Don't gloat Your Grace. Any upsurge in Mr Phillips workload is just as likely to be caused by investigating those parts of the body of Christ who do not wish to employ practising homosexuals, or who will not permit cross-dressers to the mothers union, or conduct blessings for civil partnerships, or closing down adoption agencies who only place children with heterosexual couples etc etc In fact, I would say this is far more likely.

11 June 2009 at 09:21  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Welcome to the real world Mr. Griffin.

11 June 2009 at 09:34  
Anonymous Voyager said...

There is a statutory requirement on all publicly-funded bodies to be ‘equal opportunities’ employers

Equalities legislation

I think Your Grace that the confrontation between the Public and The Ancien Regime is coming to a head. The revolution that took place in Central Europe in 1989 was the first shoe to drop...the Marxist rump in Western Europe will be the second shoe to drop.

Lest we forget the "conservative" political parties in Western Europe are essentially "social democratic" which is why there is no room for SPD or Labour or their ilke

11 June 2009 at 09:43  
Blogger someday said...

There are lots of legitimate ways to avoid employing someone if you don't want to employ them without leaving yourself open to a charge of racism.

11 June 2009 at 09:44  
Anonymous Puritan Preacher said...

Your Grace

Might they not claim that they are entitled to recruit employees committed to the objectives of the organisation? After all a businessman would be more likely to hire someone enthusiastic about his product line and customers. A religious organisation would also say that candidates were expected to be in sympathy with its religious beliefs.

Even if this is not a defence then is there not a risk that prosecution would be seen by their supporters as persecution and a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise them? Affection of us British for underdogs might then swell their ranks. They could fight in court long enough to get to the General Election and if perceived to be defenders of the nation about to be silenced by totalitarian anti-fascists, militant religionists, or even the nanny state who knows how many extra votes that might get them.

Alternatively what if they were able to employ a few from ethnic minorities who perceive a larger
but growing minority as a greater threat. Might they not then cloak themselves righteousness and become 'angels of light?'

11 June 2009 at 09:50  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Your Grace, forgive me if I am ignorant of the way the law works but aren't various Black and Asian organisations funded by public money and yet are closed to white membership.

Maybe the BNP's membership criteria is a bit naive but I defend their right to exist because any country that is faced with MASS immigration against the majority's wishes has to have some kind of representation. What I find truly frightening is the establishments desire to remove any opposition to the rapidly changing makeup of our countries population.

It seems our identity and sovereignty are meaningless and are to be sacrificed on the alter of corporate profits.

11 June 2009 at 09:58  
Blogger Alcuin said...

but they must be seen to be doing so

How would you prove that this is being breached?

visible quotas of minority groups

How do you define a "minority group". Griffin would no doubt claim that the white working class to whom he targets his message are a minority group. If he employed some Sikhs (I have seen Sikhs in BNP propaganda), would that be sufficient? Or must he also employ a token Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Chinese and red indian? Are Jews defined in Law by race or religion?

It seems to me that a shyster like Griffin will easily dance around these restrictions, and will make much of the untenable position of organisations like the Black Police Officers Association. The BNP would seek out perfectly legal requests of their employees that they know the latter would find offensive.

What if his Muslim employees refuse to get BNP posters printed or distrubuted? Pretty sound grounds for dismissal, particularly if it had been made clear in writing what the employees duties would be, and you can be sure that BNP lawyers would make take these right to the limit of the law and as offensive to the people they do not want as possible.

The law and its inconsistent application is a can of worms that the BNP will ruthlessly exploit. Sorry, Your Grace, but little comfort here.

11 June 2009 at 09:59  
Anonymous Mystic Twat said...

As all of you dimwits (dead and alive) will soon find out, the BNP will have no problem with employing such people, if indeed they wish to help us out, but membership is quite another issue.

11 June 2009 at 10:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not wanting to jump on the racist bandwagon but if you want to be fair about this, is someone going to sue the Black Policeman's Association' or whatever they call themselves?

11 June 2009 at 10:17  
Anonymous tally said...

"A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence"
There goes the bible then?

11 June 2009 at 10:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unite against fascism are guilty too then. They have a black only mailing list on their site.

11 June 2009 at 10:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can fully understand what you say Your Grace, but haven't you got anything better to do?

11 June 2009 at 10:57  
Anonymous Kruddohran Krysek said...

Surely Asian is a subset of CaucASIAN? But seriously, the Caucasus mountains are equidistant from India and Britain.

11 June 2009 at 11:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is why your backwards Christian myths are being discarded as laughable by all rational people, you disgusting anti-white halfwit.
Now go and cower before your made-up childish ghost stories and don't bother rational people with your drivel and more.

11 June 2009 at 11:30  
Blogger ooberLib said...

Has His Grace gone on holiday somewhere in the after life? The quality of religio-political reporting is descending into mere gutter politics in here recently.

Where is the articulation and thought provoking writing of old?

The BNP has been scratching the the antique furniture for quite some time now, why the sudden interest?

Light of the world and salt of the earth indeed!

11 June 2009 at 11:46  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

"What do you say when you see a television moving around in the dark? Put it down, you n*****, or I'll shoot you!"


Two Tories were suspended from the party following allegations of racism at Oxford University's Conservative Association.

Tut Tut! Salt of the earth....Light of the world

11 June 2009 at 12:14  
Blogger peter_dtm said...

Your Grace
the whole anti racist business is the most appalling example of racism & paternalism going.

The BNP have right of free association (even though this joke of a government illegally prevents members joining the police etc)

An employer has the DUTY to employ someone who will NOT do their best to damage the business they are recruiting for. How can anyone be found guilty of discrimination on the grounds of PROTECTING the aims of the organisation.

This is actually a damn good example of why Racial & Religious legislation is so perverse and stupid.

The same stupid mentality that tries to force SECULAR BELIEFS onto religious organisations.

The BNP may well be unpleasant; but compared to the current bunch of hoons in government they are a thoroughly reasonable and pleasant bunch of socialist idiots

11 June 2009 at 12:51  
Anonymous not impressed said...

Conservatism should be about commitment to community, Christianity, and communal solidarity, not neo-con globalism or the evaporation of the manufacturing industry or the local corner shops via the free market ideology. We should return to traditional values, not turn into an American style society.

11 June 2009 at 13:17  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

ooberLib said... "The BNP has been scratching the the antique furniture for quite some time now, why the sudden interest?"

Just off the top of my head, could it be something to do with the election of 3 county councillors and 2 MEPS I wonder? Or the mass media campaign to smear & discredit them? Or the elephant in the room that any plain-sighted person can see as they walk through our city-centres but will not be acknowledged by our politicians - mass immigration & Islamification.

11 June 2009 at 13:17  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I'm too cynical to suppose that Griffin and Brons will lift their snouts out of the EU trough long enough to address these egregious wrongs.

If Griffin was really bothered about fighting the evils of unbridled immigration and Islamification in the UK then what the hell use is he going to be swanning around Brussels where the presence of MEPs has little effect on EU decision making? Shouldn't he have been planning a campaign for becoming an MP?

11 June 2009 at 14:06  
Blogger The Young Oligarch said...

Anonymous speaks of "Christian myths" and "childish ghost stories" .

He'll be from the wing of his movement which worships Wotan and Thor , then .

Heinrich Himmler/Pastor Niemöller
? Tough choice .

11 June 2009 at 14:08  
Anonymous Penny said...

From the BNP's point of view, I'm pretty sure that lawsuits of this nature would be most welcome. Grist to their mill.....oxygen to their publicity.....cans of worms undone - and so on.

In his speech, didn't Griffin say that now he was an MEP, his intention was to dig around to expose the EU corruption he maintains exists? Attempts to sue him hither and thither may just give the impression that he is being shut up by those who have something to hide. Such an impression may well result in more votes winging their way towards the BNP.

On Newsnight Simon Hughes made great sense. Don't egg Griffin et al; don't hold anti-nazi marches/demos; it just covers the BNP in victim sauce and so plays in their favour. Engage them in debate, pose the right questons and let's all hear their answers.

11 June 2009 at 14:31  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Is it unchristian to fall about

laughing at McKenzie's tv joke?

I hope not because I did.

11 June 2009 at 14:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a horrible thought, your grace. Since when did laws exist to allow this kind of harassment of elected representatives?

Bear in mind what happened yesterday. Two elected representatives of a legal democratic party were assaulted outside Parliament by a gang of establishment-backed thugs with the connivance of the police and the silent backing of all three parties. The next day one of the thugs was put up to sue for damages for "injuries" sustained while attempting the assault. The case is relying on the fact that the judiciary were purged of non-PC judges awhile back, and so the claim will be heard before a biased judge. Later there was an EDM in Parliament that MEP's shouldn't be given access to the Commons any more, now that the BNP has been elected. Not a shred of protest from anyone has been recorded.

Just consider the amount of hate you have to have to carry out all that. Just imagine that hate directed at you.

When the powerful attack the powerless and accuse them of "crimes", we should shiver.

11 June 2009 at 15:00  
Anonymous not impressed said...

British People’s Alliance

Pro-life, pro-family, pro-worker and anti-war

The Morally and Socially

Conservative Party of British and Commonwealth Patriots

Morally and Socially Conservative British and Commonwealth Patriots: Policy for The British People’s Alliance

The British People’s Alliance is a pro-life, pro-family, pro-worker and anti-war party of economically social democratic, morally and socially conservative British and Commonwealth patriots. Its parliamentarians will enjoy considerable freedom of action, but deviation from this document will result in withdrawal of the Whip, and persistent deviation in expulsion from the party.

BPA parliamentarians will restore the supremacy of British over EU law, use this to restore the United Kingdom’s historic fishing rights, and insist that no EU law apply in the United Kingdom without having gone through exactly the same parliamentary process as if it were a Bill which had originated in our own Parliament. They will demand the show-stopping Empty Chair Policy until the Council of Ministers meets in public and publishes an Official Report akin to Hansard.

BPA parliamentarians will disapply in the United Kingdom any ruling of the European Court of Justice by resolution of the House of Commons, and any ruling under either the Human Rights Act or the European Convention on Human Rights unless and until ratified by such a resolution.

BPA parliamentarians will preclude any need for a referendum on further European integration, by forcing Parliament to do its job properly and just say no.

BPA parliamentarians will give a real voice to everyone who is determined to remain British on the basis that the United Kingdom is their country, which no one has the right to take away from them. They will insist that the Parliament of the United Kingdom enact legislation in all policy areas for all parts of the United Kingdom, as set out in the devolution legislation, so that there would be no need for a costly English Parliament. They will legislate for constituency boundaries to straddle the United Kingdom’s internal boundaries wherever possible. And they will create a new elected second chamber with the same revising powers in relation to the devolved bodies as in relation to the House of Commons.

BPA parliamentarians will give the strongest possible support to those throughout the world seeking to maintain, resume or adopt constitutional and other ties to the United Kingdom, and thus also to each other. They will give all subjects of the Crown at least the same rights of entry to, and residence in, the United Kingdom as are enjoyed by EU citizens. And they will do everything possible to secure the accession of Irish Republic to the Commonwealth.

BPA parliamentarians will demand that any referendum on the future existence of the United Kingdom as presently constituted be held throughout the United Kingdom as presently constituted.

BPA parliamentarians will extend to the whole United Kingdom any preferential spending (such as free personal care for the elderly, and such as the abolition of student fees) in Scotland, paid for by a reduction in the block grant to the Scottish devolved body, which has its own revenue-raising powers.

11 June 2009 at 15:11  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will establish British Standard English as the only official language except in any area where one fifth or more of the population is comprised of native speakers of another language indigenous to these islands, in which case that other language would have parity with British Standard English.

BPA parliamentarians will make Saint George’s Day, Saint Andrew’s Day, Saint David’s Day and Saint Patrick’s Day public holidays throughout the United Kingdom. They will have all public institutions observe in some way the National Days of each and every Realm or Territory with which the United Kingdom shares a Head of State.

BPA parliamentarians will repeal the Civil Contingencies Act, repeal the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act, and restore the situation whereby a Bill which runs out of parliamentary time is lost at the end of that session. They will brook no extension of detention without charge, no identity cards, no control orders, no admission of anonymous evidence other than from undercover Police Officers, and no provision for conviction on anonymous evidence alone. They will repeal existing erosions of trial by jury and of the right to silence, repeal existing reversals of the burden of proof, repeal provision for majority verdicts (which, by definition, provide for conviction even where there is reasonable doubt), and repeal provision for Police confiscation of assets without a conviction. And they will repeal the Official Secrets Acts.

BPA parliamentarians will restore grammar schools, but on the German Gymnasium model, thus avoiding the 11-plus while working to overcome this country’s crippling cultural division between arts and sciences, and between academic and technical education. They will restore O-levels in place of Thatcher’s GCSEs. They will restore excellent Secondary Modern schools such as historically imparted exactly as much academic and technical knowledge as most people really need, producing huge numbers of economically and socially active, culturally and politically aware citizens. They will defend and restore Special Needs Education. They will fight with every fibre of their being for church schools, and for the historic role of the churches in education in each part of the United Kingdom. And they will have the imperial and metric systems taught and used side by side except where metrication has not already taken place, as in the case of road signs.

BPA parliamentarians will introduce universal and compulsory – non-military, but uniformed, ranked and barracked – National Service between secondary education and tertiary education or training.

BPA parliamentarians will preserve and restore the historic regimental system as the basis of the British Army’s efficiency, will rebuild the Royal Navy, and will fight to save the Royal Air Force from neoconservative schemes for its abolition. They will give former Gurkha soldiers in the British Army the absolute right to settle and be naturalised in the United Kingdom. And they will ensure that only home fees are charged to the student children of serving or former Gurkhas and Commonwealth personnel in the British Armed Forces.

11 June 2009 at 15:11  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will oppose root and branch both world government and coercive utopianism, and will therefore oppose root and branch any further wars in those causes, as well as the continuation of British participation in those such wars which are already going on. They will be mortally dangerous to tax-guzzling and policy-dictating military-industrial complexes at home and abroad.

BPA parliamentarians will defend rural services, leading in particular to the systematic reversal of bus route and (where possible) rail line closures going back to the 1950s, as well as of the erosion of local schools, medical facilities, Post Offices, and so on. They will create and maintain a national network of public transport free at the point of use.

BPA parliamentarians will defend real agriculture as the mainstay of strong communities, environmental responsibility and animal welfare (leading to safe, healthy and inexpensive food), as against ‘factory farming’. They will defend the remaining field sports, and demand a free vote in government time on repeal of the ban on hunting with dogs, tabling such an amendment to every Criminal Justice Bill. And they will require Gypsies and Travellers to abide by the same planning and other laws as everybody else.

BPA parliamentarians will create a new and powerful second chamber elected on the basis of the English ceremonial counties, Scottish lieutenancy areas, Welsh preserved counties, and Northern Irish counties, with each of those 99 units having equal representation.

BPA parliamentarians will make the supermarkets fund investment in agriculture and small business (investment to be determined in close consultation with the National Farmers’ Union and the Federation of Small Businesses) by means of a windfall tax, to be followed if necessary by a permanently higher flat rate of corporation tax. They will, in either case, insist on strict regulation to ensure that the costs of this are not passed on to suppliers, workers, consumers, communities or the environment.

BPA parliamentarians will raise the minimum age for jurors at least to 21, and give every defendant an absolute right to be tried by a jury or bench drawn entirely from the AB or C1C2 social group. They will restore the pre-1968 committal powers of the magistracy, abolish stipendiary magistrates, repeal Thatcher’s Police and Criminal Evidence Act, and restore the pre-1985 prosecution powers of the Police.

11 June 2009 at 15:12  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will return to preventative policing based on foot patrols, with budgetary sanctions against recalcitrant Chief Constables who failed to implement this. They will insist on Police Forces at least no larger than at present, and subject to local democratic accountability, most obviously though Police Authorities, but if appropriate by means of elected sheriffs.

BPA parliamentarians will make each offence carry a minimum sentence of one third of its maximum sentence, or of 15 years’ imprisonment where that maximum sentence is life imprisonment.

BPA parliamentarians will reclassify cannabis as a Class A drug, with a crackdown on the possession of drugs, including a mandatory sentence of three months for a second offence, six months for a third offence, one year for a fourth offence, and so on.

BPA parliamentarians will defend marriage as between one man and one woman, anything else being contrary to the interests of women. They will refuse to countenance the State lying that would be the issuing of new birth certificates to transsexuals. They will enact a legal presumption of equal parenting, tabling such an amendment to every Family Law Bill. They will restore the tax allowance for fathers for so long as Child Benefit is still being paid to mothers. They will allow paternity leave to be taken at any time in the first 18 years of the child’s life, asserting paternal authority, and requiring paternal responsibility, at key points in childhood and adolescence. They will restore the requirement that the providers of fertility treatment take into account the child’s need for a father. And they will provide for poorer mothers of small children to be paid to stay at home with them, rather than paid to hand them over into the care of strangers.

BPA parliamentarians will legislate to entitle any couple intending to marry to make a legally binding declaration that their marriage shall be dissoluble only on the grounds and according to the procedures that obtained prior to the 1969 Divorce Reform Act (or its extensions to Scotland and Northern Ireland). They will legislate to entitle religious organisations to make a legally binding declaration that any marriage solemnised according to their rites shall be such a marriage, with the Church of England to be deemed so to have declared unless the General Synod shall specifically resolve the contrary within one year of this provision’s coming into effect and by a two thirds majority in all three Houses. They will seek to ensure that comparable arrangements are made in relation to the Methodist Church of Great Britain and the United Reformed Church, in view of those denominations’ creation by Acts of Parliament. And they will fix entitlement upon divorce at one per cent of the other party’s estate for each year of marriage, up to fifty per cent, with no entitlement for the petitioning party unless the other party’s fault be proved.

BPA parliamentarians will enable unmarried close relatives to contract civil partnerships, which already do not need to be consummated.

BPA parliamentarians will criminalise, with exactly equal sentencing, both the sale and the purchase of sex by persons aged 18 or over. They will oppose any further deregulation of drinking or gambling.

BPA parliamentarians will restore the real Whit Monday as a public holiday, accompanied by other Christian festivals acceptable both to Protestant and to Catholic sentiment, as well as by Commonwealth Day and the Queen’s Official Birthday, all in place of pointless celebrations of the mere fact that the banks are on holiday.

BPA parliamentarians will build into the parliamentary process powerful guardians of our Christian heritage, and of moral and spiritual values.

11 June 2009 at 15:14  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will have the BBC Trust elected by and from among the license-payers, will make the license fee itself optional, will ban any person or other interest from owning or controlling more than one national daily newspaper, will ban any person or other interest from owning or controlling more than one national weekly newspaper, will ban any person or other interest from owning or controlling more than one television station, will re-regionalise ITV under a combination of municipal and mutual ownership, and will apply that same model (but with central government replacing local government, subject to very strict parliamentary scrutiny) to Channel Four.

BPA parliamentarians will develop nuclear power and the application of clean coal technology as at least the core around which other things (wind, wave, solar, et cetera) may operate, since it offers both the re-creation of strong working-class communities based on high-wage and high-skilled employment (as previously provided by coal mines, steelworks, shipyards, and so on), and independence from the affairs of the Middle East, as well as from Russian gas.

BPA parliamentarians will resist hysteria over climate change, especially when that hysteria is really an excuse to destroy (or prevent the restoration of) high-wage, high-skilled and high-status jobs for the working class; an excuse to retard or reverse economic development in the poorer parts of the world; and an excuse to restrict travel to the rich.

BPA parliamentarians will recognise that the United Kingdom’s sovereignty, liberty, democracy and identity have all been, and are all being, eroded by a heavy reliance on imported goods rather than on a domestic manufacturing base, by a heavy dependence on imports in order to feed the British People, and by the ownership or control of much of British agriculture, industry and commerce by persons who are either not British subjects or not resident in the United Kingdom for tax purposes, as well as increasingly by foreign states through sovereign wealth funds.

BPA parliamentarians will expose, halt and reverse the deliberate importation of a new working class whose members understand no English except commands, know nothing about workers’ rights in this country, can be deported if they step out of line, and (since they have no affinity with any particular part of this country) can be moved around at will.

BPA parliamentarians will fight against the enforced bilingualism or multilingualism that transfers economic, social, cultural and political power to a bilingual or multilingual élite, so that those who are or will be excluded are or will be the English-speaking working class, black and white.

BPA parliamentarians will spearhead the resistance to the economic, social, cultural and political exclusion of the English-speaking white working class, including the institutionalised failure to take seriously violence and other abuse against English-speaking white working-class people.

11 June 2009 at 15:14  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will secure justice for the morally and socially conservative heartlands of England in the North, the Midlands, the West Country and East Anglia. They will do this by twinning each of the local government areas currently or more recently existing there above Parish or Town level, but below County level, with a comparably populous area of each of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and London or the South East, and requiring by statute that both expenditure and outcomes across each of the relevant Departments of State must never vary by more than three per cent between any such area and any one or more of its twins. And they will do this by legislating to reduce the pay of the relevant Ministers (always including the Prime Minister) by any percentage difference in either expenditure or outcomes, above three per cent, between any of seven regions (the three Northern regions, the two Midland regions, the West Country and East Anglia) and any of the other five (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and the South East), with any two or more such differences in the given year added together for this purpose.

BPA parliamentarians will secure justice for the Highlands, Islands and Borders of Scotland, and for North, Mid and West Wales, including by amendment of the devolution legislation. They will do this by twinning each of relevant the Scottish Lieutenancy Areas and Welsh Preserved Counties with a comparably populous area of the rest of Scotland or Wales as the case may be, and requiring by statute that both expenditure and outcomes across each of the relevant Departments of State must never vary by more than three per cent between any such area and its twin. And they will do this by legislating to reduce the pay of the relevant Ministers (always including the Prime Minister at Westminster, as well as the First Minister in the devolved body where applicable) by any percentage difference in either expenditure or outcomes, above three per cent, between the peripheral and the central parts of Scotland, or between South Wales and the rest of Wales, with any two or more such differences in the given year added together for this purpose.

BPA parliamentarians will ensure that this country’s dealings with the wider world reflect white working-class and other family ties to the Commonwealth Realms of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, and Afro-Caribbean and other family ties to the Commonwealth Realms in the West Indies and elsewhere. They will have an especial concern for the British Overseas Territories, for the Crown Dependencies, for those who look to the Great Council of Chiefs of Fiji (of which the monarch is Paramount Chief), for the Anglo-Africans, and for mixed-race peoples (such as the Cape Coloureds and the Anglo-Indians) created by the British Empire.

BPA parliamentarians will demand that at least the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand extend to all their fellow-subjects of the Crown, and to all English-speaking or British-descended people throughout the world, at least the same protection that the Russian Federation rightly extends to all Russian citizens, to all Russian-speaking people, and to all Russian-descended people, wherever they may be.

11 June 2009 at 15:15  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will promote friendship with the great American middle and working classes on the basis of common interests such as family values, strictly limited and strictly legal immigration, constitutional checks and balances, national security, energy independence, Second Amendment rights and responsibilities, and America as an English-speaking country.

BPA parliamentarians will cultivate Russia’s sense of herself as an integral part of the Biblical and Classical civilisation that is the West, and as that civilisation’s bridge both to the world defined by Islam and to the world of the Far East, while acting as the West’s gatekeeper against subjugation to Islam or to anything Far Eastern, sharing that historic role with all the Slavs, not least including the Serbs. They will call back the Croats to their historic share in that mission. And they will insist on the dissolution of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, or on unilateral British withdrawal if no such dissolution be forthcoming.

BPA parliamentarians will warmly welcome Russian leadership in the recognition and support of those who wish to adhere to the Biblical-Classical synthesis that is the true West, rather than to follow states to which they were annexed by Stalinist power down the road of the decadent pseudo-West and of its alliance with militant Islam in 1980s Afghanistan, in 1990s Bosnia, and in today’s Kosovo, Chechnya, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Xinjiang, Azerbaijan, and elsewhere.

BPA parliamentarians will reject out of hand both the Union of the Mediterranean and any treatment of Turkey as a Western country. They will resist without compromise any Islamic secession from Christian countries. They will protect the Christian communities in the Middle East. They will expose and oppose the global persecution of Christians. And they will give a voice to the heirs of Sobieski and Solidarnosc.

BPA parliamentarians will seek and maintain the closest possible ties to those who uphold the French tradition of economically social democratic moral and social conservatism, which rightly resisted all four of German occupation, Soviet infiltration, American domination, and the unbalancing of the European Communities by the admission of the United Kingdom, and which is today a very significant bulwark against the closely connected phenomena of European federalism, warmongering neoconservatism, and globalisation.

BPA parliamentarians will be unyielding in their determination to preserve the existing true, non-Eurofederalist unions of Latin and Teutonic peoples, safeguarded in one case by the Crown, and in another case by another monarch of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

BPA parliamentarians will be equally unyielding, both in their demand for freedom and democracy throughout Latin America, and in their insistence on the sovereignty of each Latin American state. They will demand the lifting of the American blockade of Cuba, which encourages sympathy for a regime which does not deserve it, and which is now kept going under Trotskyist influence through the neoconservative movement.

BPA parliamentarians will be equally unyielding, both in their demand for freedom and democracy throughout China, and in their insistence on the indivisibility of China, from Taiwan to Tibet. They will be conscious of, and will resist, the Trotskyist roots and character of neoconservative hostility to China.

11 June 2009 at 15:16  
Anonymous not impressed said...

BPA parliamentarians will give a voice to those refuse to allow globalisation and its multiculturalism to relegate them to Untouchable or lower-caste status, to those who reject alliance with the brutally repressive Gulf monarchies, to those who would encourage and celebrate the high culture and emerging democracy in Iran, and to those who refuse to define their Jewishness in terms of uncritical support for the Likud State (with its Sharia courts for certain ethnic minorities) founded in 1967, including those who reject as a blasphemous presumption the creation of a Jewish State by human initiative, prior to the divine initiative of the sending of the Messiah.

BPA parliamentarians will implement a form of electoral reform such that conservative parties would always enjoy at least one third of the seats in either House of Parliament, translated by means of a caucus system into one third of significantly more powerful Select Committee seats, one third of Select Committee Chairmanships, one third of Ministerial positions generally, and one third of Cabinet positions specifically. They will thus give our people the power to require measures as set out above, or arising out of the circumstances of the time, as the price of even unrelated measures desired by other parliamentarians and their supporters. And they will thus ensure that at least five sixths of seats were always held by opponents both of European federalism and of the neoconservative war agenda.

BPA parliamentarians will advocate that, in the course of each Parliament, each party should submit to a binding ballot of the whole constituency electorate its shortlist of two for Prospective Parliamentary Candidate, and should submit to a binding ballot of the whole national electorate its shortlist of two for Leader. And they will seek to have submitted to such a national ballot the ten policies proposed by the most of each party’s branches, with each voter entitled to vote for up to two, and with the top seven guaranteed inclusion in the subsequent General Election manifesto.

BPA parliamentarians will introduce a ballot line system, such that voters would be able to indicate that they were voting for a given candidate specifically as endorsed by a smaller party or other campaigning organisation (for example, for Crown and Commonwealth, for national sovereignty, for the countryside, for traditional family life, for the Armed Forces, against expensive and socially disruptive wars with no British strategic interest at stake), with the number of votes by ballot line recorded and published separately.

And BPA parliamentarians will require all political funding to be by resolution of membership organisations, as well as parliamentarians’ staff to be appointed from lists maintained by such organisations in return for payment of at least half of those staff’s salaries, thereby requiring politicians to have links to wider civil society, not least including agriculture, manufacturing, small business, and organisations campaigning for conservative causes.

11 June 2009 at 15:17  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

Not impressed

That is not a good way to promote. I for one can not be arsed reading any of them comments.

11 June 2009 at 16:04  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr McKenzie,

His Grace agrees and is considering deleting it all. It is, at best, impolite; at worst, a gross abuse of His Grace's hospitality.

He will see how he feels after a glass of red.

11 June 2009 at 16:45  
Anonymous brief and to the point said...

Harridan Harm-men to ban BNP

11 June 2009 at 17:51  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

Not Impressed - might I suggest that you consider the word "overkill" here? A short paragraph on your ideals might be acceptable, in the sacred name of free speech, of course, however these three, very long, posts are over the top.

And I agree that it is an abuse of His Grace's kind hospitality.

Although I suspect that His Grace might be best advised to leave them all posted, upon due reflection following his glass of red. The reasoning being that it is all most likely to be counterproductive

11 June 2009 at 18:41  
Anonymous len said...

Nobody reads long posts anyway.( I bet someone accuses me of stereotyping or being politically incorrect or promoting short posts or even of having a viewpoint.)

11 June 2009 at 19:02  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Len,

Thank you for making His Grace laugh.

You are always welcome.

11 June 2009 at 20:04  
Blogger ooberLib said...

This is amusing. If Harman intends making a 'UK' law to force the BNP into accepting non whites, then what of the Lisbon treaty?

What about all the other 'far right' parties in Europe who now have MEP's? What does the EU law say?

I am going to enjoy all of this as it develops. Can His Grace recommend a good 'red'?

They really have not thought this through have they. Interesting times ahead.

11 June 2009 at 20:39  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

I can sum up in a nutshell why everything has descended into chaos in this country.

We have now lost all sense of God, and having lost all sense of God we have lost all sense of sin.

The Mother of all Parliaments was built on solid Christian foundations, but we have been chipping away at the rock for some time and it has now become compromised and we now stand on sand, the foundations which used to solidly support us are not there.

"Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like the sensible man who built his house on rock. Rain came down, floods rose, gales blew and hurled themselves at that house and it did not fall: it was founded on rock."

Where is the church? She has been tempted to continue her existence by human means. She has come to depend on councils, financial security and political power. This has turned her into a human establishment erring on the side of the wealthy and often corrupt governments.

Instead of understanding the needs of the day, and speaking to these needs, she speaks into a vacuum, answering questions that no one is asking, and condemning those who she should be answering by compiling a dossier of evils and adding her voice to the prophets of doom.

Is it any wonder that many of our people, especially the young, are rejecting our earthly secular church?

The call of St Paul must always be heard.

"How many of you were wise in the ordinary sense of the word, how many were influential people, or come from noble families? No! it is to shame the wise that God chose what is foolish by human reckoning."
1Cor. 1:26-27

People like to know where it is they stand. If we are to be anything like what we were, then surely we must be built on solid foundations, upon which the life-long Christian life can be supported.

11 June 2009 at 21:01  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Your Grace

Mackenzie 12:14. "What do you say when you see a television moving around in the dark? ..."

Once the penny dropped I gave a suppressed laugh because it reminded me of my favourite French humorist Alphonse Allais who lived in the early 20th Century.

He claimed to have painted 3 avant garde paintings:

all black: two naked africans fighting in a dark cellar

all red: apoplectic cardinals picking tomatoes by the red sea

all white: a group of young girls processing in a snowstorm towards the church on the morning of their first communion

Does this exhaust all the possibilities:

All yellow: jaundiced buddhist monks carrying bananas across the desert?

All green: queasy young leprechauns sitting on a bowling green eating lettuce?

Oh I had better join you in a glass of red.

11 June 2009 at 21:15  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

It was not meant to be funny, but I suppose there is an amusing element to it. Wine helps also to lift the mood.

But to continue with what I said above.

People are very much still hungry for God. The 'God is dead' theory of people's thinking is demonstrably not working. It is probably true to say that half the people find it difficult to pursue faith in God because of popular pressure from the the skeptical age in which we live, coupled with a church that speaks into the vacuums of its own neglected pews; and the other half is searching for a 'spiritual reality' that it perceives to have drained way from any place in society at large.

The church is not producing an alternative to the worldly values that have engulfed nearly every avenue of the family life, but this does not negate the spiritual search that continues inside people, it is merely neglecting to address the searching soul.

Consider why anything to do with Jesus is big box-office news, especially when controversy is being courted in productions like "The Last Temptation of Christ", and "The Davinci Code". These films helped make its producers and actors very wealthy. The success of such films would not be possible though were it not for the great hunger which exists in people. But what is the church talking about? Nobody really knows because she uses language which is largely unrepresentative of the ordinary mans perception, for reason which I believe are quite deliberate.

11 June 2009 at 21:21  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Methinks too much red has already been consumed judging by the lengthening posts.

11 June 2009 at 22:17  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

Strictly Jack Daniels or a decent Single.

11 June 2009 at 22:24  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Wise choice LOL

11 June 2009 at 22:31  
OpenID jamestheless said...


Surely you would go very well with red wine?

11 June 2009 at 23:09  
Blogger Red Squirrel said...

Most British National party members have some black and Asian friends and colleagues. But until mass immigration is halted how can we really fling open our membership to everyone?
There are many non-whites who are proud to be British and we would welcome them.

11 June 2009 at 23:15  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

If You're Going Through Hell
Rodney Atkins

Well you know those times when you feel like
There's a sign there on your back
That says I don't mind if you kick me, seems like everybody has
Things go from bad to worse
You think it can't get worse than that
And then they do

You step off the straight and narrow
And you don't know where you are
Used the needle of your compass, to sew up your broken heart
Ask directions from a genie in a bottle of jim beam
And she lies to you
That's when you learn the truth


If you're goin' through hell keep on going
Don't slow down if you're scared don't show it
You might get out before the devil even knows you're there

I've been deep down in that darkness
I've been down to my last match
Felt a hundred different deamons breathin' fire down my back
And I knew that if I stumbled I'd fall right into the trap
That they were layin'

But the good news is there's angels everywhere out on the street
Holdin' out a hand to pull you back up on your feet
The one's that you've been draggin' for so long
You're on your knees might as well be prayin'
Guess what I'm sayin'

Music Video HERE

11 June 2009 at 23:51  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Your Grace,

The BNP are deluded, especially when it pertains to the Anglican Church.

At least the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Archbishop of York and even the Bishop of Rochester could see through the rubbish they espouse.

The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ does not state dividing lines.

As Galatians Chapter 3 Verses 26 to 29 says:
"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

I remain yours

His Grace, The Duke of Lavendon.

11 June 2009 at 23:57  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

@Not impressed

Only a couple of days ago, on another website, I came across the surprising assertion that there is some kind of link between the neocon movement and the late Comrade Trotsky. It was news to me. And now here it is again, the same assertion in your own words:

[Quote] [. . .]and which is now kept going under Trotskyist influence through the neoconservative movement. [. . .]
They will be conscious of, and will resist, the Trotskyist roots and character of neoconservative hostility to China.
[End quote]

An explanation would be most welcome. Or even just a link. Thanks.

12 June 2009 at 00:16  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Lord Lavendon said..."The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ does not state dividing lines. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Sorry - I know this takes things down a different avenue. But I really cannot let this ignorant interpretation of Scripture lie. St Paul is talking about SALVATION here - nothing more, nothing less. The clue is in the words, "IN CHRIST JESUS". There is no preferential treatment at the cross. We are all sinners saved by grace: male, female, jew, gentile, slave, freeman.

If you use this scripture to advocate multiculturalism then you must also use it to advocate unisex toilets. Stop trying to bend a verse about the gospel of salvation to suit a political agenda.

12 June 2009 at 01:30  
Anonymous not a machine said...

your Grace poses a very modern day dilemma , which will have both trevor philips and well expensed lawyers scratching there heads and having long lunches.

most posters have covered the topic quite well.

whilst mr griffin the office holder can not discrimate in his duties, Mr griffin the politician is elected on his manfesto and is free to conduct his politics within the law.The law does not apply in the chamber i think.

there are already murmurings about changing the media laws to bias against the BNP , this would be a terrible mistake , to use your own rule of thumb "why not ban the aliens are using us as experiments brigade " or perhaps " the crystal healing purveyors"

surely mr wilders must be in the same position ??.

the problem is getting some air to it , it has to , that is as much as I can say at the moment.

perhaps labour will allow reservations for them to live in , just hope they dont find gold after signing .

12 June 2009 at 01:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The fact that this political party is now in receipt of public funds means not only are they obliged to adhere to all equality legislation, but they must be seen to be doing so"

But surely that means the Anglican church should also be obliged to adhere to all equality legislation...?

12 June 2009 at 02:06  
Anonymous Voyager said...

I did not realise the Anglican Church was in receipt of public funds but the Muslim Council of Britain is

12 June 2009 at 05:10  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Women are a majority of the UK population yet Labour persists in All-Women Shortlists to produce such quality apparatchiks as Jacqui Smith

12 June 2009 at 08:04  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I don't believe in the god of the scriptures/koran. Nor do I believe in religion itself or the dogma that goes with it. However, that does not mean I am incapable of discerning right from wrong or that my morals are the poorer for the lack of religious guidance or adherence. Anyone who says otherwise is being naive. Some of my values are imposed from my Christian upbringing, others I've gained through experience.

Strangely, this does not mean I disbelieve in God or at least what I perceive to be the power of creation. I DO have a problem believing in a capricious supernatural entity who in his/its youth went around smiting, hating and generally carrying on in a rather boorish way. There is no way this creature is the god of love and tolerance. If this is the paragon we should live up to then no wonder the world's in a state. As for Christianity itself, I view it as a patriarchal, misogynistic, hypocritical cult. Or at least it was until women wised up and realised there is no valid reason why they should be subservient to men.

However, that doesn't mean I side with the Dawkins Brigade either. Their dogma is equally questionable. Every time someone tells me God doesn't exist or God is dead I ask to see the proof or a picture of the body. Of course, there isn't any proof. Dawkins et al are simply preaching another, unverifiable belief system and being insufferably rude to people who have faith.

I do not ridicule people for their religious beliefs because people find comfort and strength in faith. Nor do I laugh at them for showing devotion. Religion can and does bring out the best in many people. I have no time or patience for charlatans who use religion as a smokescreen or as an excuse for their own prejudices.

I think it's time I had a cup of coffee. Being so serious at this time of the day isn't necessarily a good thing...

12 June 2009 at 08:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is a very dangerous precedent to set, to use government legislation to repress a political party with elected members. The BNP won its seats, not because the vast majority of its supporters are racists (liberals have a hard time understanding this), but because Britain now includes vast numbers of people whose values are basically incompatible with those of the traditional understandings of what the country stood for. Bring in hundreds of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating, and demanding changes to British ways of life, and you guarantee a backlash.

Frankly, I hope that the BNP continues to grow in strength, as it might be the only mechanism to force the mainstream parties to adopt more truly conservative approaches to social problems. Then, and only then, will you see the BNP gradually disappear as its supporters distance themselves from the more unsavoury aspects of the party.

12 June 2009 at 11:52  
Anonymous James C said...

I didn't vote for the BNP, and I am not a member, but I am getting very angry at these attacks on them.
Cranmer attacks those who want to defend their country from the attack by Islam and its fellow travellers.
There are many organisations out there which are black-only or Muslim-only (remember the MCB wants Islam to be considered a race).
Another example of "attack the victim" so well established by the Labour establishment.

12 June 2009 at 12:34  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

Wales used to have its own very distinct culture, which I have to admit was rather in your face sometimes, but by God it has to be preferred if this is going to be what replaces it.

Islamic march through Newport Shopping Centre.

12 June 2009 at 13:28  
Blogger peter_dtm said...


Dawkins et al are simply preaching another, unverifiable belief system and being insufferably rude to people who have faith.

um actually it should of course read

Dawkins et al are being insufferably rude to people who have a different faith to his/theirs !

possibly guilty of stirring up religious hatred ?

12 June 2009 at 13:51  
Anonymous Orwellian Prophet said...

Down on Animal Farm the electorate are in a flap because of great injustice.
The Turkeys cannot join the Birds Not Permitted party.
Ruling Piggies lift snouts from trough just long enough to pass law against this discrimination.
Birds Not Permitted party repent, reform and become the Birds Now Permitted party.
But they have a cunning plan. They canvas openly in the farmyard during the day but during the hours of darkness the blighter's are plotting in the barn.
At the next Election the greedy Piggies are kicked out and the now inclusive and very popular Birds Now Permitted party gain power.
The Turkeys are delighted - but of course their new rulers are really the Birds Not Permitted party and Christmas is rapidly approaching.

12 June 2009 at 14:38  
Anonymous would rather be a mouse said...

Hope the coffee helped, Mrs. Gnostic.

I know people whose ethics and morals require no religious guidance. I give them a wide berth, because their rules are arbitrary - and come with moveable lines and goalposts.

Thus 'Thou shalt not Kill," for example, becomes: 'it's OK to destroy someone who practices whatever I designate as hatred, racism, fascism, and who refutes whatever I mean by 'liberalism' on any given day. I can do this by slander, libel, intimidation, rule-changing, exclusion, etc - that means they can go on living, but they must do as I say.' Just the way the major parties treat the electorate and the BNP, really!

If your picture of the smiting, boorish hater depicts your view of Christ, then I think the problem lies in interpretation. Because that is precisely how the above ethics work - not Christianity.

The latter certainly has adherents who are hypocritical. I never heard anyone claim that Christianity is the easy way, or that every Christian knows or understands everything - so a Christian life permits trial and error, and a process of learning to be a better person.

It must be wonderful to be so strong as to need no consolation or strength beyond one's homespun ethics, though. It takes a woman to accomplish anything so creative!!! I guess any guy who uses those ethics either relies on his inner female, or has an icon of adamant at his side.

12 June 2009 at 18:33  
Anonymous Got the Guts to wear God said...

Your Grace,

we can't have a laughing Archbishop who drinks red wine. The loony left libs will have a field day...spare a glass for me?

12 June 2009 at 18:46  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

At least Nick Griffin and those who dared vote for him have the guts to stand up for his beliefs.

It's easy to slag off the BNP and their voters, as you get Establishment backing.

Try standing up for your Country, your Heritage and Traditions.

Every one of those voters has more backbone than most who are pathetically surrendering their country their way of life with barely a whimper.

Oh you all disagree with what is going on, but what exactly are you doing about it ( besides engaging reverse gear ).

Try saying NO, I will not Comply.

I salute the bravery of all those who voted BNP.

13 June 2009 at 15:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace, forgive me if I am ignorant of the way the law works but aren't various Black and Asian organisations funded by public money and yet are closed to white membership.

True or not, and it most likely is true, the BNP will certainly give this as evidence of victimization, in any case against them. An argument that will in fact be difficult or indeed impossible to dispute.

NG has as good as already stated on BBC TV. That there is no justification in The BBC having a snide jab at the BNP over its racial exclusivity. When there exists in this country such a thing as a Black Police Association. Which is IN YOUR FACE RACISM however and whoever looks at it.

Worth remembering that although The Nazi Party were in hind-site very bad for the German people in particular. They obviously did not seem to be, when Hitler was ELECTED. He did not get exclusively elected on lies. In reality no one ever has.

It is hidden, occult or secret agendas, that the people have to concern themselves with. Surly after 12 years of this current bunch of only slightly less OBVIOUS Fascists running the show, we should have worked that out by now?

Atlas shrugged

13 June 2009 at 19:20  
OpenID jamestheless said...

"It is a very dangerous precedent to set, to use government legislation to repress a political party with elected members."

This has already happened in Belgium, in 2004. The Vlaams Blok, a hardline Flemish nationalist party, was convicted of violating the laws concerning racism and xenophobia, on the grounds that it pursued obvious and sustained incitement to discrimination and racial separation.

After losing an appeal, it was dissolved by the party leadership; they set up a new party under the name Vlaams Belang, which dropped the racist parts of the programme.

The party's main goal is an independent Dutch-speaking republic, although most of its voters are attracted by its policies on crime and immigration, and are actually in favour of keeping the Belgian monarchy! In addition to the stereotypical "knuckledraggers", it has a moderate nationalist wing and a conservative, Christian wing (Belgium used to be one of the most Catholic countries in Europe).

It has never been allowed to join any coalitions, even though it regularly gains 20% of the vote in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium and is the largest single party in a major city (Antwerp).

The party's founders were open admirers of the Nazis and colloborated during WWII. (Then again, so did the establishment).

In 2002, the party's deputy leader was forced to resign after a television interview in which he cast doubt over the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis, questioned the scale of the use of gas chambers by the Nazis and the authenticity of Anne Frank's diary. (Holocaust denial is illegal in Belgium).

So perhaps one day there will be a legal challenge to the BNP. Much as I disagree with the BNP, that would be a sad day for democracy, to my mind.

13 June 2009 at 21:04  
Blogger Gnostic said...

To would rather be a mouse:

Umm I didn't know that JC was God, actually. But now you've fetched up the subject I have no argument with JC's message only how it has been twisted over the centuries.

Religion, like any other political system, is nothing more than an ideology and should not be taken on blind faith. I don't kill people, I don't steal from them and I don't "put it about" like a slapper. I have never coveted my neighbours ox because I don't fancy following it around with a shovel. The closest thing to a god I pay any lip service to is survival. I don't see any other God knocking on my door and asking if I could use some help.

Note: This isn't an invitation to the Jehovah's Witnesses so don't get any funny ideas...

17 June 2009 at 10:26  

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