Monday, June 15, 2009

Ken Clarke: If the Lisbon Treaty is ratified, we would indeed let matters rest there

It is considered an act of political immaturity or a childish obsession in some Conservative circles to ‘bang on about Europe’ when polls show that this issue is of little importance to the electorate and even alienates them. But when a member of the Party’s front bench ‘clarifies’ what David Cameron and William Hague have hitherto refused to make explicit, the issue is certainly worth a little rattle.

When Andrew Lansley ‘clarified’ Conservative spending plans on the NHS and mooted a 10 per cent cut, he was reprimanded and allegedly threatened with dismissal. Conservatives who favour cuts in services are muted: one cannot have senior front benchers making explicit that which the ‘inner council’ has decreed shall be implicit, latent and concealed. Yet when the issue is European Union, it appears that Ken Clarke is free to speak because ‘everyone knows what his thoughts are on the matter’. And for him to equivocate would be an unacceptable act of gross hypocrisy. So he makes it clear that if, come the next general election, the Lisbon Treaty has been ratified by all member states, the Conservative Party would not seek to re-open the issue.

Hitherto, David Cameron and William Hague have promised that if they come to office to find the treaty in force, they would ‘not let matters rest there’. They have spoken of competences being repatriated and the invocation of the subsidiarity principle, but have never explained what or how. Without any unraveling of the Lisbon web, their objective would be unattainable. And here we have, for the first time, the express view that ‘we would not let matters rest there’ does not mean they would hold a post-ratification referendum. There would be no ‘solemn Treaty renegotiation’ – the Constitution for Europe, although unacceptable to the Party prior to ratification, would become acceptable unequivocally, simply by virtue of it having been ratified by all EU member states.

This is a very great pity.

Not to say a big disappointment.

What badness is it which is made good simply by virtue of unanimous ratification? How can something not be in the British national interest and then become so simply because 26 foreign states believe it to be in theirs?

But Cranmer is puzzled by something further. Mr Clarke said that he decided to re-join the Conservative front bench because the Party is ‘less Eurosceptic than it was’.

When? Under which leader?

It is the Conservative Party under David Cameron which is removing itself from the ‘ever-closer-union’ obsessions of the EPP. It is the Conservative Party under David Cameron which is, for the first time, forging a mainstream ‘opposition’ group in the European Parliament. It is the Conservative Party under David Cameron which has pledged ‘a massive, sweeping, radical redistribution of power’. This, he said, had to be ‘from the state to citizens; from the government to parliament; from Whitehall to communities. From Brussels to Britain; from judges to the people; from bureaucracy to democracy. Through decentralisation, transparency and accountability we must take power away from the political elite and hand it to the man and woman in the street.’

The Leader has said there will be a ‘massive, sweeping, radical redistribution of power...from the EU to Britain’.

Unless, of course, Ken Clarke knows something we don’t.

39 Comments:

Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

‘It is considered an act of political immaturity or a childish obsession in some Conservative circles to ‘bang on about Europe’ when polls show that this issue is of little importance to the electorate and even alienates them.’

The issue no longer alienates the people. The EU (and inextricably linked to it, mass immigration) has damaged both the Conservatives (votes for UKIP and the Christian Peoples Alliance (because of the Directives on homosexuality)) and Labour (votes for the BNP).

It is no use Cameron talking about ‘subsidiarity’. People know that that is similar to Americans talking about State-side rights. It does not work. You cannot have two sovereign powers. Nor two supreme courts.

One shall be loved and the other despised.

15 June 2009 at 10:11  
Anonymous McKenzie said...

Ken obviously knows something Your Grace, there is no other logical conclusion, you don't have to be Dr Spock to settle this one out.

The schizophrenic nature of double speak has me perplexed and angry at every new announcement. It is as though the new politics is about presenting both sides of the argument at the same time.

In the past I have been troubled with my conscience with regards to His Grace's wise words about the BNP and one's Christian conscience. Due to this I have sought to reconcile my faith with a political party which I thought I could latch onto and support, which would not leave me flagellating my self every night before bedtime.

However, the level of hatred for the white working classes, and the total unwillingness to address their concerns by pouring out condemnation and hatred, has left me with no doubt that I have no choice in the matter any more.

It is obvious to me that the accusations are not about racial concerns and BNP policy, its about denying the white working class people any voice. There is a total refusal to address the truth, instead the establishment has closed ranks and is under the impression it can crush the good people of the UK sending them back into oppression. It is a very special kind of racism in my mind, and my place is with my own.

Well not so. I still have my faith in God, and I will put my case to the Lord when the time comes and stick to my guns.

I have a fridge full of eggs ready for Lib Dem canvassers particularly.

BNP Voters come in two flavours: Scum & Idiots.

15 June 2009 at 10:17  
Anonymous Voyager said...

The Conservatives are truly incredible on Europe - they took us in, they agreed most of the treaties even making Maastricht (which QC Clarke had not read - shades of Caroline Flint)a Confidence vote....yet they believe they can continue to hoodwink voters.

UKIP is an approved protest party but had expense cheats like Godfrey Bloom top of the list in Yorkshire making it hard for Anti-EU voters to protest.....then again Anti-EU parties took 57% votes cast which makes the Tories 28% (10% eligible voters) look modest

15 June 2009 at 10:25  
Anonymous G Eagle Esq said...

BUT, your Grace

Europe is of GREAT importance to many of the Electorate

As Mr Cameron insists on supporting the ZanuLabour/Liberal consensus on the European Reich becoming ever more powerful/intrusive/expensive

.... UKIP will increase its Votes, as it will be offering a (relatively) respectable choice to the European Reich

15 June 2009 at 10:28  
Anonymous Nelson said...

Your Grace.
What on earth is wrong with todays polititical parties? Have they run out of ideas, or did they not have a clue about running a country in the first place? Why do both parties keep bringing back these zombies from a past era? We have Glenys (the adams family Kinnock) the sinister Mandellson (rather like shakespear's Richard III) & jovial but dodgy Clarke, as Falstaff perhaps? We the electorate have weighed them all in the balance and found them useless. Let the dead bury the dead, listen to the people, We need leadership that listens & responds, Bold, strong & not bullied by the Euro Superstate. Let the dinosaurs rest in their political extinction & get on with the job in hand, otherwise they will drag you down with them & us as well.

15 June 2009 at 10:39  
Blogger Alcuin said...

Pithy and concise as usual, Your Grace. Just two points:

on first sight and with the current pervasive climate of spin, Andrew Lansley's remarks seemed like a gaffe (i.e. politician tells truth). But the effect has been to highlight Labours egregious dishonesty in its transparently fatuous "Labour investment or Tory cuts", which the blogosphere smoked out PDQ, and now even the BBC seems to acknowledge, if through gritted teeth.

The Tories position on Europe should not really be that difficult to formulate. Most people in this country still like Europe, they don't like the Commission, Court of Human Rights, the gross inneffectiveness of the Parliament, regulations flowing like diarrhoea and endemic corruption. Address those, with muscle and the British people will be right behind them. The Dutch want a rebate, and probably so do the Germans. Never mind the niceties or the legalities - refuse to pay the Danegeld (at least until the books pass audit)and you might see some real change as the feeding trough runs dry.

15 June 2009 at 11:45  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Cameron and Hague made their Euro-sceptic noises before the recent elections. Now that those elections are safely out of the way, true Conservative policy can be enunciated by Clarke. Any Euro-sceptic who voted Tory on the 4th June has, once again, been hoodwinked.

Your Grace's spellchecker needs a rap over the knuckles - it is 'unravelling', not 'unraveling'.

15 June 2009 at 12:01  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

As one of the scum/idiots who exercised his franchise according to his political persuasion,one has to wonder how long it will be before my franchise will be denied me,and i undergo compulsory re-education,since democracy is now in its terminal stages?How can the cons have any credibility,when in the face of total subjection to foreign dominance all they offer is re-negotiation of employment law,which is bound to come to nothing,just like the irish referendum,where a free people gave the wrong answer and are being bribed to give the correct one,my MP the member for maidenhead assures me that there will be a referendum,so how can i believe anything that any of the tri-axis parties say,as they are all in the pay of brussels?

15 June 2009 at 12:30  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

Just a 'minor' point. The EU is very good at confusing people with acronyms and titles; EEC, EC, EU etc.

The European Court of Human Rights is a non-EU court (Russia is a signatory). The EU's supreme court is the European Court of Justice.

A collision between the European Court of Human Rights and the European Court of Justice will result in a triumph for the European Court of Justice (there cannot be two supreme courts).

In practice the European Court of Human Rights will avoid a confrontation with the jurisprudence of the European Court of Justicel. The effect is to apply a pincer movement on national courts to ensure that the EU's legal themes are dominant and ultimately oppression - for a superstate always expands away from the people.

15 June 2009 at 12:34  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

I think the photo which accompanies you post says it all Your Grace.

If only more of the party faithful had listened to Lord Tebbit or the Student Conservative Leader @ York then maybe the message would have been made clearer. Or probably not.

15 June 2009 at 12:36  
Blogger Microcosm said...

The bought and paid for artificial legal entity known as the corporate body politic along with the judges court de facto have no powers to either take away or hand back.

Christians should stand on the rock, not the shifting sands of the fraudulant tamperings with our natural common law jurisdiction of God given inalienable rights.

We are not the goods and chattel of the Merchant Kings, who have disputed and dishonoured the authority of the one true King of Kings.

We are Ambassidors in the Aseembly of God and as such should have Diplomatic Imunnity when it comes to dealing with legalese legislational intent.

15 June 2009 at 12:41  
Blogger Dave said...

What price democracy your Grace?

Who was it said "Let your yes be yes and your no be no"?

I think th electorate have said no on more than one occasion. No is no. So why don't they understand? Must we take to the streets?

15 June 2009 at 13:31  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

Your Grace - A few days ago I made the point about the Conservative Government twice breaking a clear pre-election pledge, and increasing the prevailing rate of VAT, once at the start of each new government.

A clear pledge, a flat statement of policy, and on each occasion neatly discarded into the bin as soon as the tiresome business of the election was out of the way.

It would appear from Your Grace's new post that nothing has changed, and that Her Majesty's most loyal opposition still feel able to spout any old rubbish during pre-election times on the basis that it will gain them votes.

Having looked at various official tory blogs recently there's a whole lot of hot air about "A UKIP vote will let Labour back in" (shades, of course, of the traditional cry of "a Liberal vote is a wasted vote" in times past) however it remains that with all three principal parliamentary parties either strongly, mildly, or fanatically in favour of the eu, it doesn't much matter what I vote because in the morning the answer will still be a grinning eu.....as it swallows our money every day, the smile on the face of the tiger

So the europhile Clarke has confirmed that my general election vote goes to UKIP, and to hell with DC and his made-over NewCon party, because new con is exactly what it is.

Thanks, Ken, I appreciate your clarity here, even though I loathe your politics

PS. Do they REALLY think that the electorate find europe to be a turn-off? It's only the single most important issue of the day, from which most other problems stem, viz immigration, border security, new laws, cultural trashing, metrication....well, you know what I mean.

15 June 2009 at 13:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

It is an unfortunate fact that the Conservative Party has shown in the past that, when it comes to the EU, it simply cannot be trusted to listen to the views of the electorate and to put the UK first.

If Ken Clarke's announcement is correct, then it would appear that this record of deceipt is going to be repeated by Cameron.

The Conservatives promised a Referendum on the LisbonConstiTreaty in their last Manifesto. They didn't pledge to only hold one if Labour forced the Treaty through the Commons without a Referendum and if all the other nations had already ratified it.

Cameron should therefore honour the Manifesto commitment and a Referendum SHOULD be held so that the electorates' opinion on the Treaty is obtained. At that point, with the legitimacy of a Referendum to support him, the Tories should either repeal the Treaty or unilaterally declare sections that do not suit the UK to be Null and Void.

The UK electorate is overwhelmingly Eurosceptic .... a refusal to acknowledge that fact will drive many voters (myself included) to vote UKIP. That may, sadly, have the effect of giving Labour another completely undeserved term of Office. But unless the Tories honour their promises I fear that will be outcome.

15 June 2009 at 13:36  
Anonymous Puritan Preacher said...

Anonymous 13.36 My guess is that it will give us a hung parliament.
Quite appropriate really, considering all the recent murmurings of 'lamp-posts' and 'piano wire.'

15 June 2009 at 13:58  
Anonymous James C said...

I have a fridge full of eggs ready for Lib Dem canvassers particularly.

Take the eggs out of the fridge.
Better rotten eggs for these Lib Dem perverts.

15 June 2009 at 14:08  
Blogger McKenzie said...

James C

I was thinking the very same just after I made the comment. It seems that there is never going to be any common ground regardless. I am reconciled with my soul and at peace with my choices. My feet are on the ground and my hand is on my sword.

15 June 2009 at 14:36  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I voted for UKIP on the 4th of June because of the EU problem. Looks like they'll be getting my next vote too the way things are going. I was hoping I could vote Tory, that lessons had been learned. Obviously not.

The Cameroonistas are a bunch inept, prevaricating, low grade pillocks.

Screw 'em.

15 June 2009 at 14:53  
Anonymous SJB said...

@ Anonymous 15 June 2009 13:36

Your contend "[t]he UK electorate is overwhelmingly Eurosceptic". Yet only about 8 million out of an electorate of 45m voted for Eurosceptic parties (assuming it is fair to include the Conservative Party within that class).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm

15 June 2009 at 14:55  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Yet only about 8 million out of an electorate of 45m voted

Really ? That means 15,625,823 votes were cast, of which 5.7 million were for avowedly Pro-EU parties - Labour, LibDem, Green and a fiurther 29 Million were opposed to the election in principle and abstained.

So in total 34.7 Million Voters rejected the EU from 45 million eligible voters.

15 June 2009 at 15:04  
Anonymous SJB said...

In the 2004 European Election UKIP won a 16.1% share of the vote. A year later that collapsed to 2.2% in the General Election. I don't see why Cameron cannot reasonably rely on the same effect next time. Also, it is difficult to see any advantage for him in taking a more 'anti-EU' line because that risks alienating the swing voters he needs.

15 June 2009 at 15:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace,

Are you really surprised by the news? Cameron is a Europhile and sees himself first and foremost as a progressive, rather than a conservative. Of course he is in favour of Lisbon as a concept -- he is only opposed to some of the details.

Conservatives have to stop assuming that because Labour is so awful, that the other side is angelic. It is not. Cameron will, I predict, turn out to be as big a disappointment as Blair, and possibly Brown, have been to their supporters. There is no substance to Cameron, and his sole motivating impulse is power.

15 June 2009 at 15:14  
Anonymous SJB said...

@ Voyager

400,000 people could be bothered to take the time & trouble to travel to London to protest about the hunting ban. Around one million marched against the Iraq war. But this claimed overwhelming majority of the electorate somehow could not spare just 10 minutes to positively register their dissent.

15 June 2009 at 15:19  
Blogger ukipwebmaster said...

Blather and bluster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cYRLYkCpRc

15 June 2009 at 15:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Duping The British people,that includes the Tory party, if there is such a thing anymore.

1995 Tories signed upto the EUMED 2010 we shall then see real mass immigration.


II: The Barcelona Declaration was signed in Barcelona in 1995 between all EU countries and 10 "partner" countries

The European Neighbourhood Policy supports - beside Euromediterranean partners - the Eastern European Partnership. The ENP in the period of 2007-2013 will cost 12 billion euros euros + something incalculable. EU Commissioner Benita Ferrero Waldner to the Alliance of Civilizations, Madrid 15 01.2008/EU Press Release: EU and the Alliance of Civilizations are working towards the same goal … promotion of intercultural understanding, whether it be through our political dialogues, or through specific initiatives such as the Interfaith Dialogue.

III: The 6. Euromediterranean Foreign Ministers´ Conference Naples on 2.-3. December 2003
Enhance and promote the partnership. ”This initiative offers the EU's neighbouring partners, in exchange for tangible political and economic reforms, gradual integration into the expanded European internal market and the possibility of ultimately reaching the EU's four fundamental freedoms: free movement of goods, services, capital and people.” Confirmed on Aug. 29, 2007 by the Danish prime minister.
Creation of a Euro-Mediterranean Foundation for Dialogue between Cultures (the Anna Lindh Foundation),
a Euro-Mediterranean Parlamentary Assembly Will get 56 million African workers + families to the EU from Africa by 2050 to make up for our demographic imbalance.
Morocco is the first ”partner” to have attained this status

The Anna Lindh Foundation - based in Alexandria / Egypt
The first ALF Director Traugott Schoefthaler: "Cultural policies must avoid schematic concepts such as the popular distinction between "us" and "them". They (UN Secretary-General of the Cuelhar and Amin Maalouf) even warn against using the phrase "the other" as it opens the door to imposing collective identities on the individual (Christianity, nationality)."

The Anna Lindh Foundation was created in collaboration between the UNESCO, ALECSO, the EU and the Council of Europe,

IV: The Danish Center for Culture and Development (DCCD) of the Foreign Ministry. A course in manipulation. This is a programme to abolish Danish culture. Our Foreign Minister has taken over Danish domestic /educational policy.
Olaf G. Hansen's speech in Rabat, 13 June 2005.

According to the Charter of the ISESCO its task is to
4h) support the efforts of the educational, scientific and cultural institutions for Muslims in non-Member States of ISESCO (i.e. preventing integration).
5a) To devise plans and support … to develop Islamic culture and publicize it, and to disseminate the teaching of Arabic to non-Arabic speakers all over the world, being the language of the Holy Quran (.a mission command). The DCCU made a cooperation agreement with the ISESCO on 27 May, 2005!

Media
"cultural journalism" in the daily practice in the media instead of traditional "news journalism" to give higher priority to cultural and social portraits of everyday life,

Education
Multicultural education in school curricula.
multicultural education for teachers, etc.
multicultural curriculum through new educational materials and revision of existing textbooks (to extinguish texts about us being Danes, Germans, British etc.).
school links and exchanges as a way to promote cross-cultural learning and global ethical content in schools.

http://euro-med.dk/?paged=2

15 June 2009 at 15:47  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

I was wondering how long it would take McKenzie to rethink the eggs.

15 June 2009 at 15:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If paper thin Dave refuses to give a clear yes to a referendum even if the treaty has been ratified by all members, then I think he has lost the chance of winning the election as people will vote for any party willing to leave the EU we may even see BNP MPs its no good Dave saying he will tinker around with it after its ratified people no longer trust anything that comes out of a politicians mouth its a sad day for so called democracy

15 June 2009 at 16:15  
Anonymous mouse-ity is better than humanity said...

I still think we'd better make sure the ballot process is trustworthy - if it's as good as Dave's Polls, we're in bigger trouble than we know. And that's saying something.

15 June 2009 at 17:36  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I dont mind ken wanting to give us away to another power , so long as he agrees its so important that we can all vote on it .

I am eurospectic , on fundamental reasons and the government should not give away somthing that really isnt theres , namely my chice who and where i want to be governed by and from .

that aside I dont want the euro either , we are big enough to have our own currency and national bank , working as efficiently as the euro structure if not more so

15 June 2009 at 18:25  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

And where does this leave us anti EU folk, firmly in the BNP camp. You couldn't make it up.

15 June 2009 at 19:04  
Blogger McKenzie said...

Job 16:11-22 (King James Version).

11.God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked.
12.I was at ease, but he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me by my neck, and shaken me to pieces, and set me up for his mark.
13.His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground.
14.He breaketh me with breach upon breach, he runneth upon me like a giant.
15.I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin, and defiled my horn in the dust.
16.My face is foul with weeping, and on my eyelids is the shadow of death;
17.Not for any injustice in mine hands: also my prayer is pure.
18.O earth, cover not thou my blood, and let my cry have no place.
19.Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.
20.My friends scorn me: but mine eye poureth out tears unto God.
21.O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!
22.When a few years are come, then I shall go the way whence I shall not return.


Job 10:18-22 (King James Version).

18.Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!
19.I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
20.Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
21.Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22.A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.


Job 6:11-12 (King James Version).

11.What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
12.Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?


Job 12:16-25 (King James Version).

16.With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.
17.He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.
18.He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.
19.He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.
20.He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.
21.He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.
22.He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
23.He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.
24.He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
25.They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.

15 June 2009 at 19:22  
Anonymous Daisy said...

Dear Mr McKensie

Do I take it from that you are in favour of a referendum?

15 June 2009 at 22:21  
Anonymous A D Hutchinson said...

UKIP again then. Sad but necessary.

16 June 2009 at 00:24  
Anonymous Voyager said...

But this claimed overwhelming majority of the electorate somehow could not spare just 10 minutes to positively register their dissent.

Why should they ? By your token the voters approved of the Iraq War because so few protested and in 2005 Blair was re-elected.

Likewise ID cards are fine because Labour has a mandate from 2005. You really fail to see Abstentions as a negative judgment on the election itself

16 June 2009 at 05:38  
Anonymous Phido said...

Personally I'm tired of trying to peep behind the political curtains of the "Big Three", We are being manipulated & teased by these politicos. Tell us the plain unvarnished truth of your aims & ambitions & let the people decide. Despite the scandalous behaviour of many MP's revealed lately, however difficult you find it, Tell The Truth! or face the consequences, This nation deserves better.

16 June 2009 at 11:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Leader has said there will be a ‘massive, sweeping, radical redistribution of power...from the EU to Britain’."

And if you believe that, I have a bridge you may be interested in buying.

First, once the Lisbon constitution is in force, there will be no mechanism for returning power to Britain. Ever.

Second, the traitor Clarke's outburst was not challenged, denied, or qualified in any way by the Tory leadership; therefore we must assume his statements to be acceptable as their policy.

Out now!

19 June 2009 at 10:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Puritan Preacher: that would be a hanged parliament.

Much better idea, imho.

19 June 2009 at 10:11  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

52 Reasons to Get out of the EU

20 June 2009 at 22:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Message about Lisbon treaty:

Lisbon treaty seems to be totally strange and deleting democracy or human rights?
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/01/lisbon-treaty-c.html
I’ve read an article which states that police gets rights to shoot people in some situations.
These kind of things are totalitarian politics.

It also probably stops right to go on strike.
http://www.no2lisbon.ie/en/press-centre/entry/160

And all this in whole Europe …
It is sad to notice that all other countries have accepted this treaty, but many governments have not even given people chance to vote about it.
Irish government has given you this right,…anyway it is really strange that Ireland maybe votes again about this, and only after few months?(or 2009?)
EU elite needs this YES, and they have ordered new voting?
If this is true it shows how horrible secret elite rules EU, and what can we expect from the future?
Lisbon treaty is basically giving ‘Gestapo’-laws to EU-government, if needed?
And they seem to need those laws fast?
Vote NO, and save the world?
F.ex. in many european countries media and politicians has almost 100% ignored discussions about this subject, and people are not even aware about whole thing?
It is also good to remember that USA has now similar ‘martial laws’ there, after 11th september 2001… ?
EU security officials decide about all security matters of whole EU?
Also there is some things which makes it very difficult for normal people to complain and get things corrected if there is wrongful handlings?
I hope I am wrong, but this whole thing , and how it has been handled seems really wrong? And it is not a democratic way to handle politics.?
http://www.europeanfoundation.org/docs/Treaty%20of%20Lisbon.htm

ps. this writing may include errors.
-Tore Toivicco

Now also EU web-cencorship?
http://www.masternewmedia.org/europe-under-internet-censorship-threat-new-eu-telecom-package/

Give us back our democracy!

Besked om Lissabon-traktaten:
Lissabon-traktaten synes at være helt mærkeligt og sletning af demokrati eller menneskerettigheder?
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/01/lisbon-treaty-c.html

Jeg har læst en artikel, hvori det hedder, at politiet får ret til at skyde folk i nogle situationer.
Disse slags ting er totalitære politik.
Det sandsynligvis også stopper ret til at gå i strejke.
http://www.no2lisbon.ie/en/press-centre/entry/160

Og alt dette i hele Europa …
Det er trist at bemærke, at alle andre lande har godkendt denne traktat, men mange regeringer har ikke engang givet folk chancen for at stemme om det.
Irske regering har givet dig denne ret, … anyway det er virkelig mærkeligt, at Irland måske stemmer igen om dette, og først efter nogle måneder? (Eller 2009?)
EU-eliten behov denne JA, og de har bestilt nye afstemningssystem?
Hvis dette er sandt, det viser, hvor forfærdelig hemmelighed elite regler EU, og hvad kan vi forvente af fremtiden?
Lissabon-traktat er grundlæggende give ‘Gestapo’-lovgivning til EU-regering, hvis det er nødvendigt?
Og de synes at have behov for disse love hurtigt?
Stem nej, og red verden?
Eksempel i mange europæiske lande, medier og politikere har næsten 100% ignoreres diskussioner om dette emne, og folk ikke engang er klar over alt?
Det er også godt at huske på, at USA nu har lignende ‘martial love’ der, efter den 11 september 2001…?
EU sikringsmedarbejdere beslutte om alle sikkerhedsspørgsmål i hele EU?
Der er også nogle ting, som gør det meget vanskeligt for almindelige mennesker til at klage og få tingene korrigeret, hvis der er ulovlige handlinger?
Jeg håber, jeg tager fejl, men det hele, og hvordan den er blevet håndteret synes virkelig galt? Og det er ikke en demokratisk måde at håndtere politik.?
http://www.europeanfoundation.org/docs/Treaty% 20of% 20Lisbon.htm

ps. denne skriftligt kan indeholde fejl.
-Tore Toivicco

Nu også EU web-cencorship?
http://www.masternewmedia.org/europe-under-internet-censorship-threat-new-eu-telecom-package/

Giv os vores demokrati tilbage!

27 August 2009 at 19:32  

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