Sunday, July 26, 2009

Glasgow City Council subsidises Bible desecration

Cranmer was not going to comment upon this, but it seems a number of his communicants wish to discuss it, even though there be not much to say, and His Grace’s perspective will be unsurprising.

There is apparently an exhibition in the Gallery of Modern Art (Goma) in Glasgow, entitled Made in God’s Image.

It encourages people to deface the Bible in the name of art — and obliging visitors have responded with predictable abuse and obscenity. This can come as no surprise to the ‘artists’, who included in their creation a video of a woman ripping pages from the Bible and stuffing them into her bra, knickers and mouth.

Cranmer has never been one for the burning of books, a logical corollary of which must be the freedom to burn a book if one so wishes, or place a rasher of bacon within it and call it ‘art’.

But when that book is burned with taxpayer subsidy, the offence is multiplied a thousandfold, for the good people of Glasgow are forcibly paying for the desecration of a sacred book, and they are therefore unwittingly complicit. This, to Cranmer, would be a just reason not to render unto Caesar.

Bizarrely, or naively, the exhibit, Untitled 2009, was proposed by the Metropolitan Community Church, which ‘celebrates racial, cultural, linguistic, sexual, gender and theological diversity’. Their idea was to reclaim the Bible as a sacred text: they simply wanted those who ‘felt excluded’ from its pages to ‘write themselves in’.

And so one writer has altered the first line of Genesis from ‘In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth’ to 'In the beginning, God (me) I created religion.’ Another has written ‘The Gospel According to Luke Skywalker’ (Cranmer suspects one of the Jedi fraternity). But the principal expression has been one of blaspemous derision: one message says ‘F*** the Bible’.

Cranmer is all for religious and theological protest, but this is taking Protestantism a little far.

According to The Times, the Church of Scotland has ‘expressed concern’, the Roman Catholic Church called the exhibit ‘infantile’, and a Christian lawyers’ group said that the exhibition was ‘symptomatic of a broken and lawless society’.

It is, of course, concerning, and even infantile. But it is no more symptomatic of a broken and lawless society than Luther’s 95 Theses: it is simply a reminder of the depravity of the human heart, which is inherently sinful or 'broken'. And Cranmer has, in any case, a high degree of ‘broken’ fatigue: he is sick of hearing about the 'broken society'. It is written: 'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet' (Mt7:6). This is simply cause and effect. Art is supposed to invoke, evoke, awaken and incite. Untitled 2009 is as incongruous as placing Tracey Emin's enseamed bed, stew'd in corruption, on the altar of Westminster Abbey. By placing a holy text in a secular setting and inviting 'comment', the protective sacred canopy was removed and the swine duly and obligingly trampled it under their filthy trotters. And the artists knew exactly what they were doing, and so – unless they are incredibly stupid – did the church. Any Christian group which chooses to preach 'racial, cultural, linguistic, sexual, gender and theological diversity’ instead of Christ and him crucified simply reaps what it sows.

A spokesman for the Roman Catholic Church said: “One wonders whether the organisers would have been quite as willing to have the Koran defaced.”

Answer: ‘No’.

Reason: ‘Most Christians are a pushover; some Muslims are likely to riot, cause criminal damage or threaten death’.

And therein lies the most important consideration for artistic liberty and freedom of expression, in exploration of which a degree of taxpayer subsidy might indeed be justified.

220 Comments:

Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Thank you, Your Grace. That the Bible should be desecrated is, perhaps, only to be expected in a post-Christian society. If only it were it that straightforward, though: as well as being post-Christian we are also a pre-Muslim country. Those of us who recoil in horror at the Bible being defaced or burned had better get used to it; it will be common practice in the years to come.

26 July 2009 at 11:53  
Anonymous churchmouse said...

The Adversary moves in the most obvious ways.

26 July 2009 at 12:09  
Blogger Gnostic said...

It needed saying, Your Grace. Although I haven't set foot inside a church for over ten years and have lost all patience with the Anglican church, I agree with every word you wrote. Thank you.

26 July 2009 at 12:10  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

How much better things would be if there were no taxpayer subsidy of the 'arts' at all, in any way, shape or form; full-stop.

Whilst it is shameful for professing Christians to put the bible in a position where it is likely to attract uninformed ridicule, it nevertheless behoves the followers of Jesus to respond to this abuse by taking up his cross and following him, rather than by summoning twelve legions of angels (as it were) to defend his person and truth.

26 July 2009 at 12:12  
Blogger Hurama said...

I think people can and do over react to these things. Rise above it the noble thing to do. What would Jesus have said?

I was in my local recycling yard last year and I recovered a brand new Bible from the skip. An equal tragedy I would have thought. Its not the paper and ink that is sacred though is it? And to be perfectly honest here, I have on many occasions said F... the Bible myself, out of frustration. Let's be fair here, it's not the most rational piece of literature in the world is it?

I would suggest that such Bibles be put on display permanently to encourage this, how long would it be before people realised that they were actually participating in some form of Biblical study, all be it of a highly moronic and infantile nature. It says a lot about such people. I suppose many would have been thoughtless responses, which may have been regretted later, and some would not even realise for one minute about the implications of what they were doing....such is the modern mentality.

Personally I think God would be pleased with the openness of it.

With regards to the consequences of what would take place if it was a Koran, well, the infantile nature of Islam is not exactly a new concept is it? But this is no excuse to reduce one's self to such reactions either. How many Christians who get angry with Islamic protestations of violence would feel the need to deface a Koran in such an gallery of 'art'? I am dam certain that I could not be bothered in the least.

A complete act of dithering nonsense designed to attract attention through controversy rather than talent. The end result was bad karma for the gallery...QED

26 July 2009 at 12:35  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

One wonders what would happen if this Art Show took place in Ireland with its new act repealing the 1961 Defamation Act.


Aside from a €25,000 fine (reduced from the €100,000 originally sought by the government), the new Defamation Act gives the authorities the power to stage raids on publishers: the courts may now issue a warrant authorising the police to enter, using ‘reasonable force’, premises where they have grounds for believing there are copies of ‘blasphemous statements’.

26 July 2009 at 13:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People have become disillusioned and frustrated with the modern church. People also get frustrated with the Bible and it's many seemingly contradictional passages. I agree that having this sort of thing is helpful. Like the above communicant has said, how many Bibles end up in skips anyway? Put them to use like this.

Here is an example of how frustration can be generated, which I found on the GodDiscussion Blog:

God on Trial (Highly Recommended).

26 July 2009 at 13:38  
Blogger srizals said...

Well, there u go again, dragging the Koran n Muslims into your dilemma. U always like 2 link with whatever whenever somethin bad happened 2 u, with Islam eh? U just can't seem to let us Muslims alone in peace, eh? I wonder if it is some kind of evil affection or just green envy?

I have one question, When did the last time u read the bible? Do u practised the bible in ur lives? Do u pay any attention 2 it? How dear is the bible 2 U?
Do u read the bible on daily basis like the Muslims do? Do U really believe in the Bible in the first place? According to whom? Is it according to Barnabas??

Who r the culprits behind the exhibition? Muslims? Heretic Christians, Mormons? The dreaded terrorists that followed the hideous steps of the Irgun??
Erm, IS IT the innocent lovable zionist with loads of money??

If u can answer this, than u know how dear Al Quran is for us, Muslims. Well, when Salman Rushdie came up with a lie, the Satanic verse, u applauded him n offered him protection from the fatwa of Ayatollah Khomenie when u urself know he had no authority whatsoever on the Muslims worldwide, well maybe the Syiah, but that still didn't change the subject.

Do u still remember the ten commandments??? Which one? According to the Hebrews or according to the Latin?

The Koran is still in its authentic state, in its first pure language delivered by Gabriel, n u r hiding from it, afraid of it, why?? Can u share this fear with the readers of this blog?

Satan would never ever had the ability 2 impersonate Gabriel, but u alredy know about it, don't u?

What comes around, goes around.

26 July 2009 at 13:54  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

srizals

You are an Infantile Moron, and what goes around most certainly does come around.

26 July 2009 at 14:03  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (13:54)—Peace. Your reward will come soon enough, when Britain becomes a majority Muslim country. If you are lucky, it may even happen within your lifetime.

•Johnny Rottenborough•

26 July 2009 at 14:41  
Blogger srizals said...

Christians, we are from the same faith. Or is it we were? The Jews, sorry, not them, the followers of Judaism, I mean the Israelite, had the same faith 2.

Come on, compare the torah, the gospels, n Al Quran. U know it is not a copy cat. Al Quran is totally different. But u already know it too.

We believe in the same God and the same linage of prophets.

What separate us is U can't accept His last prophet n His last revelation, the one that confirmed and acknowledged Moses and Isa as His prophet n messenger, his brothers, revered them and mentioned them with affection n love. The Jews hated n still condemned Isa, well, he forbid them from their affection of gluttony, powerr n hideous ways. Perfect examples are the nowadays brutalities n economic crisis caused by them.
The Jews rejected Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. because he wasn't an Isralite, They were so damn proud of themselves that they expected the last prophet must be one of them 2. Well it was not up to them, Who were they? Were they gods? C, they were too proud n arrogant n defied God. What's ur excuse?

There is no God but God right? Can u recalled ur 10 commandments, which one of them I recalled, U cannot worship others with God. I don't have it right in front of me, but I still can recall some of it.
But what did u do? U claimed Isa a.s. as the son of God, when he himself claimed it not.

The Zionist, the atheist sure want us to lock horns, it would only benefited them.

No I'm not asking u to believe what I believe. U sir, the burden of proofing the truth, lies entirely on your own shoulder.
But u can always look the other way,
the same confusing way that would only lead u to frustration. U already know what's in the bible. Read the Koran, the English translated version endoresed by Islamic Authority. Each verse has a reason n specific events behind it, that is why it is revealed in stages, not as one drop from the sky. Let go of your hate, The terrorist that wanted to anhiliate u r not true Muslims. They have abandoned the just concept of waging a war by their prophet n their God. They are going to hell for killing the innocents. R u going with them 2. The sad thing is that, they have a faith in their heart, n even the hell fire can't burn it. n after some time, well maybe like a couple of billion years of our time, they would got out of hell, but u, u don't even have the slightest of an atom of faith in Allah. U don't got to get out, ever.

The choice
is
yours.

26 July 2009 at 15:11  
Blogger English Viking said...

I am out of the country at the moment, but if I were not, I would most definitely rescue this particular bible and destroy the rest of the exhibit, happy to suffer the consequences of the probable arrest. A line needs to be drawn. Perhaps we could replace the exhibit with one containing the Conservative, Labour and Liberal party manifestoes, and invite comment on those.

26 July 2009 at 15:12  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

srizals, why don't you spell properly? This isn't an SMS message. There is no need for these abbreviations. Why do you do it?

26 July 2009 at 15:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

srizals

Err.....pardon?

26 July 2009 at 15:29  
Anonymous Seth said...

He does it because he holds us in such contempt.He cannot understand why we would allow this to happen without some resistance on our part. He knows if it was the koran moslems would never ever tolerate it.Ask youself this. Do we deserve his contempt?

26 July 2009 at 15:38  
Blogger srizals said...

Sorry Anabaptist, to save the space I guess, if not, I would be over doing it. Thank u, ops, sorry, you, for being able to read them and not scrolling down like a lunatic afraid that he's going to get Aids or Swine flu or something.

26 July 2009 at 15:44  
Blogger Brad said...

"Zionists with loads of money"?
Now who's envious, srizals?
Any idea why thousands keep trying to leave the Muslim world to get a better life? If the Koran were 'the perfect book, the perfect blueprint', how can it be that nobody's learned to actually build a halfway decent society from it yet?
Hitchens was right-"self-righteous, self-hating, self-pitying".
If it weren't for the black goo oozing out of the ground (and whose profits get stolen by other Muslims, not the West), you'd be about as important to the rest of the planet as Uruguay or Burma.

26 July 2009 at 16:04  
Blogger srizals said...

•Johnny Rottenborough•

Muslims are not your enemy. Tell me. What are you afraid of? Really? Were you like us, Ex colony, slaves of the Great Britain, The Dutch or the Spanish, the wipers of Inca and Aztec civilization? The Latiner of South America. Tamers of the Indians?
Were Muslims the ex conqueror of Great Britain and had killed and plundered the Brits, the Scots, the Irish? And imposed jizyah, yes, ridiculous taxes that strangled our ancestors, remember? Not for our own good, not for roads, mosques, but for the betterment of the facilities in where else, The Great Britain.
Get your soldiers out from Zionist wars. They don't even have soldiers with you guys. They only brave enough to slaughter and maim Palestinian babies, helpless children and women. Hell, they even afraid to fight the Hamas man made fire crackers. They don't got balls, why did you let them hold your balls and dragging you back and forth like dogs of the Zionist. Stop killing and fighting and dying for them. Is the money and pride really worth the blood and agony?
Thank you for the link, God on trial. It would be interesting to know these Atheist. Were they ex Muslims or ex Christians.

26 July 2009 at 16:05  
Anonymous len said...

Jesus Christ the Living Word of God was bruised,wounded,whipped and spat upon.It is hardly surprising that the written word of God is treated with the same contempt by sections of society.
This contempt of Christ is an outward manifestation of the anti- Christ spirit which holds people in darkness, in ignorance of the Truth, which is Jesus Christ.

26 July 2009 at 16:08  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

What exactly do you teach and where? It beggars belief. You are as thick as two short planks mate.

26 July 2009 at 16:10  
Blogger srizals said...

Yes, I do envy you Zionist, You sure got your goyyim, the gentlemen of the west, to kill and die for you. While you, tucking safely in your bunker eh, safely away from it all.
Well, not just the money, the sex too. Hell, look what Monica Lewinsky did to Clinton. Liar, Bliar or what was his name? He is too on the leech. And another one, bushy hair or was it bullshit guy from somewhere, that claimed God told him there was nuke right there under his pillow, sorry, in Iraq in the hands of the filthy rich Saddam Hussein and Iraqis.

I do envy you.

What? Why are you looking at our oil? Want some?

26 July 2009 at 16:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To promote equal opportunity they should do the same to the Qur'an

26 July 2009 at 16:17  
Anonymous nesrin said...

Maybe you can answer some questions
about your religion srizals.
Why are the girls who wear the jihab allowed to wear make up on their faces. Isn't the whole point of it to hide their looks not to enhance it.

26 July 2009 at 16:19  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Your grace

I am posting this again as this is the topic that this was really aimed at and not your previous offering, although there is a common thread, Christianity under threat.

'This desecration of the Bible in the name of 'Art' is just another example of the war that is being raged against Christianity in this country. It is fairly obvious to all of us that this is the case and yet there is no fightback from the Church. Everytime the State impinges on the Church with its anti Christian secular diktats, the Church just rolls over and turns the other cheek, it seems.
I am ashamed to admit that I know very little of the Bible's teachings but surely there must be times when standing up and fighting back is allowed, especially when there is so much at stake. Why can't the Church threaten to have ten thousand Christians marching on Parliament in protest of this desecration of the Bible in the name of 'Art' or for being forced to accept gay adoptions and gay marriage.
If the Christian Church continues as is, we will become a godless society, decadent and coarse, into which Islam will seize the opportunity to thrive. May God help us.'

26 July 2009 at 16:25  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@srizals: Muslims do not read the Bible! They forbid the Bible, and when the religious police of Saoudi Arabia find one, they destroy it!

They can do so because wé the West are 'too civilised' - or too calculating cowardly to make a war over it! That is why muslims do not take us serious and shout, rage, murder and act with violance unpunished.

The way the Somalian pirates are rewarded for their crimes, even being set free after their capture, is surely an enormous encouragement to muslims not to take the Westerners - Christians- serious!

If I was in charge, I would bombard the whole area, and make a quick end of it. That would certainly gain the respect of the muslims!

But we are governed by IDIOTS, COWARDS, FOOLS, TRAITORS! Thát is the price of being a 'democracy!' or nowadays a bad-marriage between corporatism-multi-nationalism! There are always more cowards, idiots, fools and traitors than wise, brave, courageous, men and women of integrity and character!

This is also why the church is so weak, as democracy has invaded the church!

The Kingdom of God is no democracy. The Kingdom of God is not of this world! Christians have no country! Except the Vatican which is why the world treats the Roman Catholic church with much more respect than other churches. (The Vatican has embassadors in most countries!) But that is also why this outrageous behaviour can be and is being done to the Bible and everything Christians hold sacred, unpunished! It shows how corrupt, how rotten our society is.

Because muslims and Jews have nations that can retaliate, such behaviour can not be done unpunished to the Koran and other islamic or Jewish sacred texts and things! This is why muslims, knowing they are backed by islamic nations, do things that are intolerable in a civilised world!

26 July 2009 at 16:31  
Blogger srizals said...

nesrin, don't tell me, you are falling for our girls. Well, Allah is the Most Beautiful, look at you and all His creations, the alignments of the planets, the sun, the universe, well, just about everything, even the swine.
Their hijab, or headscarf or clothes of chaste are to differentiate themselves from teenagers that eager to get 'it' and be on the news as the youngest mother or father on this blessed earth of ours.
What do you expect? Smelly and be crazy looking people,messy and untidy and said that we are Muslims??? Geez, please browse the internet, not just for porn n pun. Get your brain working or something. It deserve your attention too.

If you noticed, the nuns, wore headscarf and clothes of purity too. Don't they, father?

26 July 2009 at 16:33  
Anonymous nesrin said...

Just what I thought.Hypocrites.

26 July 2009 at 16:43  
Blogger srizals said...

Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@srizals: Muslims do not read the Bible! They forbid the Bible, and when the religious police of Saoudi Arabia find one, they destroy it!

Well, Oh, I do read the bible, especially by the Barnabas, n the torah, and the puranas of the hindus, and also the teaching of Confucious, n even the Atheist Communist writings. Why? Because it rekindled my faith, again and again, I'm in no doubt. Come on, show me, which verse, that Jesus, said, O, behold I am Jesus, your God. Don't you keep quiet after this like the rest of the brave and truthful Christians, when erm, cat got their tongue. Well, I'm alone with you guys in a Christian hate website. Not in some mosque and my fellow Muslims. I'm greatly outnumbered. What are you afraid of? Is it justified? I mean, your fear.

26 July 2009 at 16:45  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@srizals: Allah is NOT God! Even grammitacally allah,being a contraction of 'al-ilah' meaning 'the-god' nót god, and ertainly not God! The Arabic word for 'god' is 'ilah!' Not Allah!

Allah then is 'the-god' of Mecca, the only of 365 idols, Mohammed left, dressing this idol, Allah, named Jubal, up with the clothes he took from God, from the Bible- stories he had heard of not so educated christians and Jews. This way Allah is made to look like God, as he has been given attributes of God, he stole from the Christians and Jews.

This dress may fool people who do not know God into thinking Allah is the same as God, but it does NOT fool those who know God and who easily discern Allah to be a far different person(ality)!

I can not make this comment too long, so let me simply point to the site where you can read my book "Is Allah God?" Click on: "Is Allah God?"

I wrote there this description: "Because of the dialogue between muslims and churches, necessitating the condition that Christianity and Islam would be of equal value, which they are NOT, I decided to write this book. Jesus Christ commanded and commissioned His Body, the church to make disciples of all nations! Not to enter into a dialogue with them. Muslims only seek a so called dialogue to gain territory. They do NOT respect nor consider Christianity equal to islam. On the contrary. And full well do they know that doing so would be in violation of islam. The 'churches' and so called Christians who enter into a dialogue with muslims, do not seek to gain anything from the muslims, except a 'cease fire.' By participating into a dialogue with muslims, they have denied Christ!"

THIS IS ANOTHER EVIL OF OUR PRESENT-DAY SOCIETY/ DEMOCRACY: TO TREAT EVERYBODY AND ALL RELIGIONS OF EQUAL VALUE, WHEN SURELY THEY ARE NOT! And all of society suffers from it. Because virtue is considered of equal value and given equal rights to vice! A moral person is considered of equal value to an immoral person, and given equal rights!

Jesus Christ told His angels not to harvest the weeds that were springing up next to the good seeds until the last day. Even though the weeds, by nature, grow more abundantly, stronger and faster than good seeds!

In a democracy then, it's the weeds that rule, for they are more abundant than the good seeds!

26 July 2009 at 16:54  
Blogger srizals said...

Nesrin, you don't even know what Hypocrites is. You have no idea. C, u trapped in your safe little box isolated from everything. Dare u to explore all there is to know about the truth that's everyone being shouting at each other?
Muslims are 1.5 billions out of different countries, geographies, customs, ethnicities, languages and traditions. Don't make simple generalizations like babies.
Grow up.

26 July 2009 at 16:55  
Anonymous nesrin said...

This is not a Christian hate web
site.Christians will pray for you.
When you have a sick animal you try
to cure it and help it even if it
wants to attack and savage you.

26 July 2009 at 16:58  
Blogger srizals said...

Thank u, dutchlionfrans1953
I will read your book. But I'm confused with your accusations, can u point me to the so called event of turning an idol into Allah, plz. Be it in forms of secret codes, lied in deep secrets, or whispers in the wind.

I never heard it before, I would love to read all about it. Plz provide me to the hate site, sorry, the goodie two shoes site. I would love to visit them n add them to my collections of the truth. C, challenges won't break your back. They just strengthened it a bit more.

26 July 2009 at 17:03  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Could we talk nicely to one another, please?

Tea anyone?

26 July 2009 at 17:05  
Anonymous Ian said...

It used to be said, 'Let Glasgow flourish by the preaching of His Word and the praising of His name'. It is now simply, 'Let Glasgow flourish'.

Glasgow will do anything but flourish if it so rejects the living Word of God.

Jesus said, 'Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me' John 5:39). Srizels, you really ought to read John's gospel with care before you speak the usual ignorant Islamic line on Jesus' deity.

26 July 2009 at 17:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do termites drink tea? (Gosh did I just say that?)

26 July 2009 at 17:41  
Blogger srizals said...

Well, thank you your grace, your humour did come at the right timing.
I'm sorry, anger got the best of me. It's getting late out here, in the lands of the Malay. Before I dooze off, I don't hold any contempt for you guys. I respect you. That is why I can write in this blog. If not, I won't even lift a finger on mere stupidity and arrogance. Well, the Christians in my country are taking it to the court, to use Allah as a reference to their god. Erm. I will inform them of you, dutchlionfrans1953 and your book. Hope it would bring some sense to them. Well we Muslims do have problems with this little puny Christians in our country, with their ever increasing demands,we even have huge churches that stayed empty most of the time next to our busy mosque, right there side by side. See, we have to pray 5 times a day, every day, reciting verses of the Koran till we die. Well these giant churches do got busy on Sundays...
I do salute you, your grace. For letting me to participate in this blog of yours. I don't seem to get the same treatment at Danielpipes or most of the hate sites that seems too afraid or forgot to publish my comments. Well, next time I will save the comments first before sending them and published them in my own blog someday. You see, I'm just the average Joe, had to work, with wives, sorry wife, and kids, not some hired guns with millions of funding dedicated writers that had nothing to do but attack and attack...I don't even have an ally in the Worldwide Web. But know this. This is my Jihad. My pen is my sword. And I truly hope if any Muslims stumbled upon my writings, they would be inspired to fight in the battlefield of the pens, minds and arguments, and even better, if the lost Muslims, intoxicated with hate, to sober and repent for their hideous ways of attacking and killing helpless civilians which is a grave sin prohibited by Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. A holy war can only be announced by Muslim nations not some isolated one or two Muslims group that is not even a government. Well, not like the Taliban anyway. Thanks to them, Islam haters had loads of hate bullets to fire on.
I truly hope Great Britain would be great enough and apologies for all the miseries and lost of lives, wealth and dignity of the Commonwealth.
I have to pen off now, slumber is overpowering my eyes. C, I'm a human,

just like u, sorry, you...

26 July 2009 at 17:45  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Ian: Good advice, but unfortunately muslims have been closed of from hearing the Word of God by the lie they are told that Christians, more so, Jews have corrupted the 'original' Scriptures... If you had been raised hearing this every day, even if you would read this so called 'corrupted' book, the Bible (in the view of muslims who have not heard anything else but spoonfed this, and never checked out if these accusations were true) you would always read it through these polaroid glasses.

If muslims read the Bible, like Ahmed Deedat, they only do so to find references of the promise of Mohammed...for which they take the words of Jesus Who promised the Holy Spirit... Well, Jesus Christ DID prophesy the coming of people like Mohammed, warning us of false prophets rising up, and anti-christs!

For us, who have been taught to think logically, we can not imagine how muslims can ever take Mohammed's words and Mohammed seriously!

Mohammed who took the words from what he heard Christians and Jews say, was convinced that what he said (as he simply copied them) therefore confirmed the Scriptures revealed to the Jews and the Christians. But when more educated Jews and Christians rejected his claims, he did a very tricky thing! He then said: Well, then you Jews and Christians must have rewritten the original Scriptures. I have the original Scriptures revealed to me by Gibriel (who is also NOT Gabriel, though he is again - like Allah to God - made to look like Gabriel), and we reject therefore the Torah (the Bible).

This absurd reasoning could never have survived in the countries controled by the Christian East-Roman Empire. Mohammed would have been put to death for his heresy named islam! And we would have never heard of him. But unfortunately Mohammed lived in Saoudi-Arabia. Where he was also rejected by his countrymen until he started raiding their caravans, and kill a lot of people (well he let the killing do by his handymen, while he was making sure to be out of range of enemy arrows, standing in the back...shouting...)

It is like someone on Mars claiming he has been revealed the standard meter by which we have to measure by. Saying it is the same meter already revealed to the people of the earth many years prior. But when the real standard meter - not the meter that some of his fellow Marshians were using who were not so accurate - was compared to that which Marsian Mohammed said was the same, saying - when it turned out different - that the people of the earth have therefore changed, altered it. This impossible absurd reasoning (when would the Jews or Christians have altered the original Scriptures and how and why? Nobody would have accepted that! It is absolutely impossible...but not to the muslim mind who has been brainwashed with this false accusation of Mohammed) has kept the muslims from reading the Bible, or if they ever could or would, from hearing what God is really saying in His Word!

That is why Jesus Christ Himself appears to more and more muslims in dreams and visions! I can recommend the testimonies of ex-muslims. Click here: Muslims for Jesus Christ!

As is the case for everybody: Jesus Christ has to reveal Himself to each one of us! Faith is a gift of God! Being born again is a supernatural event that makes a person a child of God! (John 1:12,13) But faith of God comes by hearing the word of God, NÓT by hearing the words of Allah!

26 July 2009 at 17:47  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Malaysia being seven hours ahead of us and srizals having to be up early for school, I think we may have seen the last of him...for today.

26 July 2009 at 18:03  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@srizals: YES! Dó tell the Christians in your country, Malaysia, of my book. I disagree with their actions which are futile anyway. Because the judge has to judge by the law. And if the law forbids it, the judge can not allow it.

Let Allah be forbidden in Bibles and Christian books in languages like your own! Allah does not belong there! Allah should be confined to Islamic writings and islamic use. I am perfectly happy with that!

26 July 2009 at 18:05  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@JR: He'll read it afterward!

26 July 2009 at 18:07  
Blogger srizals said...

Oh, come on, even your fellow Christians know that you are lying, if not intentionally. Prophet Muhammad did bleed and in many occasions, narrowly escaped death, he even lost some teeth in battle and even lost battles. The Roman legion? U sure have to put some more info of history in your brain before barking out allegations, Prophet Isa was abandoned by the Israelite remember? He had no armies behind him, to protect him, only a handful of Hawarians. Well, Prophet Muhammad and first Muslims on the other hand, after escaping persecution and tortures and even death, are well protected from attacks and torture. Read the history of Islam. The superpowers of that time, the Byzantine and the dreaded Persian empire, mighty armies facing the much outnumbered and outgun Muslim warriors who loved death just like you guys loved life rode and charged them openly not against children,women and helpless babies and old ones like the Mongols when they raided Baghdad. You can't twist the facts, man. U going to look erm..dullard or bonehead like a hell rider eh. Sorry, I have to say it.

What do you expect? He is the last prophet, he had to be a complete examples for mankind in all aspects of their lives. Can a priest preach about marriages and kids and families when he in the first place had no idea whatsoever what he is talking about. Prophet Muhammad was everything a man had to be or should be, a husband, a leader, a judge, a worker, a businessman, a soldier, a warrior, a General, a countryman, etc. etc. in the best quality of a man can, but he was never what all of you accused him of, without basis of knowledge and any care to know first than shoot later, well if you find one it is based on lies, so how can we overturn it. Lies, with no orientalist backing whatsoever.

26 July 2009 at 18:15  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Manifest in these responses is ignorance of the Bible and the skills for interpreting it.

Explication of the 'knots' of Scripture originally was the mission of the Church - from the Fathers on down. If the Church no longer has the learning, insight,
and imagination to undertake this responsibility so as to appeal to the people, then the Church fails us and God.

Other aids to knowing the Bible came from school assemblies and courses in Religious Knowledge. My teacher put up with my agnostic mutterings, but eventually said: "Never mind all that nonsense; just open your mind and get on with thinking about the material. You're capable of an A, and I expect it from you."

She got my attention. Not only did the material and the exercise lead to development of insight in approaching every academic subject: what I learned proved essential for dealing with the difficulties of life.

26 July 2009 at 18:41  
Anonymous non mouse 2 said...

So... I think:
Antichrist has now banished our means of learning to interpret Scripture - and therefore of discerning his own wiles and their effects on people. Now he seeks to banish the Bible and, with it, any approach to our heritage that would also prevent his advancement.

Instead, he promotes the labyrinths of marxism and postmodern literary criticism. These linguistic mazes provide a negative parody of Scripture: they are "All sound and fury, signifying nothing." But by eliminating the means of comparison, Antichrist denies anything better to the young.
The koran, of course is alien and has no positive effect on British culture: it is another instrument of Antichrist.

So I agree with Your Grace, and thank you. We reap the consequences of idolatry in the decline of our art, literature, and language. We also see the results in the Social and Political Sciences ... probably in
the hard sciences as well - if the Pig Plague Panicdemic is anything to go by!

26 July 2009 at 18:43  
Blogger Preacher said...

Srizals,
If you read ALL the stuff you spoke of earlier then I'm not surprised that you are confused, what are you searching for, could it be the truth? Well Jesus said "I am the way ,the truth & the life. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME" Why do you always present yourself as a lonely victim? fighting against so many people who in your own mind hate you. Keep it short & keep it calm & I'm sure His Grace & others will welcome you with open arms, even if We disagree with you.
With regard to the foolishness of all in Glasgow who participated in this provocation of the Almighty, I thank God for His patient forebearence & pray that they come to their senses, repent & turn while there is still time. 'I Will repay' says the Lord ' vengeance is mine' 'It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God' Hell is HOT & it lasts for ever.

26 July 2009 at 18:43  
Blogger srizals said...

The Cow
With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.
[2:1]
Alif. Lām. Mīm .

[2:2]
This Book has no doubt in it - a guidance for the God-fearing,

[2:3]
who believe in the Unseen, and are steadfast in Salāh (prayer), and spend out of what We have provided them;

[2:4]
and who believe in what has been revealed to you and what has been revealed before you; and they have faith in the Hereafter.

[2:5]
It is these who are guided by their Lord; and it is just these who are successful.

[2:6]
Surely for those who have disbelieved, it is all the same whether you warn them or you warn them not: they do not believe.

[2:7]
Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing; and on their eyes there is a covering, and for them awaits a mighty punishment.

[2:8]
And among men there are some who say, “We believe in Allah and in the Last Day”, yet they are not believers.

[2:9]
They try to deceive Allah and those who believe, while they are not deceiving anyone except themselves, although they are unaware of it.

[2:10]
In their hearts there is a malady, so Allah has made them grow in their malady; and for them there is a grievous punishment, because they have been lying.

[2:11]
When it is said to them, “Do not spread disorder on the earth”, they say, “We are but reformers.”

[2:12]
Beware, it is, in fact, they who spread disorder, but they do not appreciate.

[2:13]
And when it is said to them, “Believe as people have believed,” they say, “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” Beware, it is, in fact, they who are the fools, but they do not know.

[2:14]
When they meet those who believe, they say, “We have entered Faith;” but when they are alone with their satans, they say, “Indeed, we are with you; we were only mocking.”

[2:15]
It is Allah who mocks at them, and lets them go on wandering blindly in their rebellion.

[2:16]
These are the people who have bought error at the price of guidance; so their trade has brought no gain, nor have they reached the right Path.

26 July 2009 at 19:05  
Blogger srizals said...

[2:17]
Their situation is like that of a man who kindles a fire, and when it illuminates everything around him, Allah takes away their lights and leaves them in layers of darkness, so that they see nothing.

[2:18]
Deaf, dumb and blind, they shall not return.

[2:19]
Or (it is) like a rainstorm from the sky, bringing darkness, thunder and lightning; they thrust their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps for fear of death, -and Allah encompasses the disbelievers-

[2:20]
and lightning (all but) snatches away their eyesight; every time a flash gives them light, they walk by it; and when darkness falls upon them, they stand still. And if Allah willed, He would certainly take away their hearing and their eyes: surely Allah is powerful to do anything.

[2:21]
O people, worship your Lord who created you and those before you, so that you may become God-fearing.

[2:22]
He is the One who made the earth a bed for you, and the sky a roof, and sent down water from the sky, then brought forth with it fruits, as a provision for you. So, do not set up parallels to Allah when you know.

[2:23]
If you are in doubt about what We have revealed to Our servant, then bring a Sūrah (a verse) similar to this, and do call your supporters other than Allah, if you are true.

[2:24]
But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then guard yourselves against the Fire, the fuel of which will be men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers.

[2:25]
And give good news to those who believe and do righteous deeds that for them there are gardens beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are given a fruit from there to eat, they will say, “This is what we have been given before”; and they will be given (fruits) resembling one another. And for them there shall be wives purified; and there they will live forever.

[2:26]
Indeed, Allah does not feel shy in citing any parable, be it that of a gnat or of something above it (in meanness). Now, as for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord; while those who disbelieve say, “What could Allah have meant by this parable?” By this He lets many go astray, and by this He makes many find guidance. But He does not let anyone go astray thereby except those who are sinful

[2:27]
- those who break the Covenant of Allah after it has been made binding, and cut off the relations Allah has commanded to be joined, and spread disorder on the earth - it is these who are the losers.

[2:28]
“How is it that you deny Allah, while you were lifeless and He gave you life; then He will make you die, and then He will make you live again, and then to Him you will be returned?

[2:29]
It is He who created for you all that the earth contains; then He turned to the heavens and made them seven skies - and He is the knower of all things.

26 July 2009 at 19:06  
Blogger srizals said...

I'm out of Icant seem to think anymore, sorry, haveto sleep

26 July 2009 at 19:07  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Sweet dreams, srizals.

26 July 2009 at 19:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to the Bible, Allah is a demon.

26 July 2009 at 19:43  
Anonymous Brian E. said...

I would love to create a (false) rumour that someone was going to destroy a copy of the Koran whilst on the plinth in Trafalgar Square as part of the ongoing so-called "art" exhibition.
It would be fascinating to watch the size of the demonstration and to see the attitudes of the authorities.
So how do you create a rumour which will become sufficiently widespread - should I consult Gordon Brown's recently fired expert?

26 July 2009 at 19:47  
Blogger Dick the Prick said...

Shamen consider the image a transition to the soul, a conduit to that which is spoken lightly - with hope - to the Lord our God. I'm all for burning books, tearing photographs, destroying bibles if the artist has emotion, for I can't say that they are wrong just gits. Ever thought about tennis? springs to mind.

Anywho watching Bobby Robson's England v Germany world cup match at St James - they're all knackered but all the celebs aren't getting a look in - it's personal: Brillaint! I don't think we'll ever fight the Germans again but it was good whilst it lasted.= (err... contact your brain administrator...soz).

26 July 2009 at 20:00  
Anonymous Puritan Preacher said...

Your Grace,

Thank you for sharing your insights concerning this sorry episode.

It is amazing that the Church involved in this interactive biblical experiment did not foresee that the end result would be desecration of the scriptures. The passage in Matthew 7:6 should be familiar to any Church leadership yet they have not followed the advice contained therein. They entrusted the Holy Bible to whims and fancies of unholy unbelievers with entirely predictable consequences. Reprobates have taken advantage of a unique invitation and defaced the scriptures in an orgy of blasphemy. It is futile to lay the Bible before those who are implacably hostile to it and the Church needs to learn lessons from this.

Can we salvage anything from this mishap? Well I hope the incident will serve as a warning to all Pastors, teachers and leaders, that the Word of God must be handled with discernment.

I wonder how many visitors refused to get involved and how many were outraged by the spectacle. It would help to put things in perspective, but we shall probably never know.

26 July 2009 at 20:23  
Blogger Andromeda said...

The moral of this story seems to be that if you want to be treated with respect and listened to seriously, become a Muslim.

26 July 2009 at 20:56  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Andromeda: That is not true respect! That is fear of resprisals! A very different thing!

26 July 2009 at 21:17  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

It's amazing that a woman would say something about muslims treating women with respect. How blind do you choose to be to the reality?

Women are slaves in their own homes! They are objects to be used and exploited by her husband. Who is commanded to beat her if he sees something in her attitude that he does not like. The Koran commands this.

If life in earth is hell for women, then there awaits a fate for her even worse in islamic paradise!

I see on you tube the women who have become victims of their husbands, or brothers, and they go free. In Pakistan because the judges there are the worst injustice barbarians around!

Pakistan is an example of a society that is hell for Christians...ánd for muslims, especially for the women!

And now England/ the UK is becoming like Pakistan! It's getting awfully dark there! And the British Pound is going down, down, down... Is there a connection? Sure there is! God can not prosper darkness!

26 July 2009 at 21:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cranmer I fully take your point about public money making tax payers unwittingly complicit.

However there are many ways to crack a nut. In other words corrupt institutions, or political movements.

Money, as we know, is the root of all evil.

It is hard if not impossible to imagine any form of civilized, never mind productive modernist society without money. Very mainly because history tells us that without money civilization can not function or even exist in the first place. Civilization is predicated on a pyramid structure of power and control. Therefore the top of society holding and also producing money is essential to the existence of civilization.

Given this, we have a big problem, and it is far from being a new one.

The trick, if there is one, is to mitigate the worst aspects of top down control through uncorrupted democratic means. Something that clearly has not been happening for the last 12 years, if indeed it ever has happened.

Such is the corruptibility of politics, and also all forms of organized religion.

Corruption using money is of course not the only way by which religions are corrupted, blackmail is also a well tried and tested method.

However vast amounts of HARD CASH certainly seems to have done the job, in most cases. Whether for a new church building or even sums given for the seeming benefit of the poor and disadvantaged. What makes religion, business and religion so easy to corrupt is that all organized bodies have in the end only one leader who has power over all below.

Usually elected by a small number of highly interested individuals. All of, or a majority of which can be easily corrupted by enough hard cash.

Therefore something as easy to miss-interpret as a book written thousands of years ago, such as the Holy Bible, can be corrupted beyond meaningful use, by a few small suit cases of green backs, distributed to the right people. Which indeed is exactly what did happened, especially during the last century. thus creating a multitude of different Christian or other biblical bases religions. All of which telling different stories, with differing messages.

Thus meaningful spiritual understanding has been divided and therefore ruled over for so very long, it is now impossible to know when this was not actually the case.

So yes, this is still happening as you state, but the facts are that it has always been happening to a lesser of greater extent. Which goes a very long way in explaining why virtually all religious teaching makes no logical sense. We are asked to have faith, when only idiots believe in something that can not possibly make any common sense, as it is presented to them.

Even The ABofC seems to not basically get it, so to speak. As for The Pope, best not to even go there.

Although DELIBERATELY corrupted through translation, and the above methods, the WORD is largely intact. Albeit completely missing many highly important sections. The Bible is all we have going for us, if we hope to truly understand our reason for being, among other very important things. Like, for example, were this all leading to.

The word is a STORY. Not in itself historical reality in main, but a rather wonderful fairy story that reveals ETERNAL SPIRITUAL and TERRESTRIAL TRUTHS.

If only our heads where not so confused by deliberately placed conflicting nonsensical bullshit. We might actually start to know with our what remains of our conscience minds, our true reality. Rather then just feeling it, with what remains of our spiritual hearts.

Our ruling elites can not let this happen today, any more then they could possibly allowed this to have happened in the past.

So we must at least be thankful, that they don't burn us to death anymore, for simply reading it. They just laugh at us, while keeping the real truth, and therefore power, to themselves.

26 July 2009 at 21:38  
Blogger Dick the Prick said...

Chin up! Work it with slow, always.

26 July 2009 at 21:42  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@A: Correction: The correct quote is: "THE LOVE of money is the root of all evil!

Money is not evil! Money is neutral! It't the ways to get it, and what it is used for that can be evil, or good! The choice is not for money to make. Look in your wallet: The money you have in there may have been used to pay a drug-pusher or a prostitute, or it may have bought a meal for someone who could not afford it. It's the same paper which was used for this. It's not the money's fault what it is being used for. It's the people's!

If your money could talk, what tales would it tell?

26 July 2009 at 21:47  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ dutchlionfrans1953 (21:25)—This is an extract from an article by Bruce Bawer called ‘Heirs to Fortuyn’:

Non-Muslims aren’t the only targets of Muslim violence. A mountain of evidence suggests that the rates of domestic abuse in these enclaves are astronomical. In Germany, reports Der Spiegel, “a disproportionately high percentage of women who flee to women’s shelters are Muslim”; in 2006, 56 percent of the women at Norwegian shelters were of foreign origin; Deborah Scroggins wrote in The Nation in 2005 that “Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered women’s shelters.” Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch advocate for democracy and women’s rights, would no doubt say far more than half: when she was working with women in Dutch shelters, she writes, “there were hardly any white women” in them, “only women from Morocco, from Turkey, from Afghanistan—Muslim countries—alongside some Hindu women from Surinam.”

•Johnny Rottenborough•

26 July 2009 at 22:08  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Andromeda said: "The moral of this story seems to be that if you want to be treated with respect and listened to seriously, become a Muslim."

And be treated like I'm a second rate human being by men and have my choices made for me? I think I'll take a pass on that kind of respect thank you.

27 July 2009 at 06:06  
Anonymous Voyager said...

No doubt if word got out on the Net it was The Koran that was being desecrated there would be a change of heart and some direct response

27 July 2009 at 06:27  
Anonymous len said...

Bible or Koran?


Which has the authentic record?

‘Why should I believe that someone who lived 600 years after the event and hundreds of miles away from where it happened had the authentic record rather than those who were eye witnesses?’ This was a question I posed to a Muslim who claimed that the Koran not the New Testament is the accurate account of what happened in the life of Jesus. His response was that the Christians (and the Jews) have ‘changed the books’ of the Bible. So I asked him, ‘Did they change the books before Mohammed or after Mohammed?’ He was reluctant to answer this question because either way it raises big problems for Muslims.
( Quote from Light for The Last days)

27 July 2009 at 08:19  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

Yesi Mawr it's one helluva tadoo!

27 July 2009 at 10:00  
OpenID jobtwenteewun1to3 said...

nice one Len. I shall remember that one.

27 July 2009 at 12:09  
Blogger Terry Hamblin said...

We worship the Word; not a printed book. While it is offensive to see a Bible defiled, it is more offensive when the message of the Bible is twisted. In liberal churches this happens every day. I remain convinced that the bolt of lightening that took out the rose window at York Minster was Divine retribution for the consecration of David Jenkins there. I can imagine that God has better things to do than to zap ignorant scribblers who deface a book, but I fear for what is in store for those who subvert the gospel.

27 July 2009 at 13:13  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

Your Grace - it's been most enlightening to read all the postings from srizals - we have, naturally, to assume that this communicant is a real muslim, and not a militant BNP person in disguise - but it's a shame that he feels that your site is a "Christian hate site".

Well, really!

Certainly some of the comments lobbed at him weren't completely friendly, but I didn't see any death threats, nor threats to burn down any mosques.

And I would have loved to ask him to comment upon your statement "some muslims will riot and make death threats" was valid, given the surplus of video evidence which suggests that it is exactly so. Nobody here is saying "all muslims......" after all.

I guess the bottom line is that the UK are being bounced into as Islamic state without the option, and their are plenty of people who don't like it. Surely Srizals can appreciate that? I don't remember being asked to vote on the proposal. Srizals would, one imagines, be delighted at the prospect. But the idea was, presumably, that all the immigrants would adopt our culture, rather than the other way around. David Cameron's recent expressed views aren't terribly helpful, either.

It would be nice to be able to vote against such a prospect now, but naturally that won;t help, since no parliment can bind its successor. And when there are enough muslims to vote in muslim MP's, we will, in due course, end up with the Islamic state.

ABC's acceptance of Sharia Law really wasn;t useful. Thin end of the wedge. And your own postings of Halal meat being fed to English school children is worse. That was, I feel, the time to have made the stand. No halal meat in the UK. It's barbaric, and we've spent several hundred years patiently attempting to improve animal welfare, only to have such practices back in through in the name of religion...and someone else's religion at that. The view should simply have been, "in the UK, such practices are not acceptable, and if you don't like that, and still wish to practice it, then best to find another, more accomodating, country. When the muslims found out how easy it was to push the UK state around, obviously the UK became a target for Islam. Tolerance is viewed as weakness.

It's a pity that all the above is an excellent recipe for voting BNP....perhaps however if the major parties would actually listen to peoples concerns without simply labelling them as "racist" and dismissing them out of hand, then some progress could be made. I rather doubt it will happen, though.

27 July 2009 at 17:11  
Blogger srizals said...

len,
If you refer back to our arguments in Michael Jackson's funeral, which Religion will prevail and a few posting in this blog that caught my attention, you never did answer my questions and Maria questions, but instead you always give your answer by providing links to Muslimjourneytohope, MuslimsforJesus, or the simple maths, 2 + 2 = 4, quotations from books that can be fabricated,they are not of valid sources that are accepted by the mass as validly genuine and with certain weight of authority.

You are not addressing the issues I've raised and especially the issues raised by Maria.
If the others who cared enough to get what I'm talking about please go to his grace posting on MJ and if you can't read the newest posting, click like you are going to give a comment and it will take you to the newest posting of course, I think the comments reached about 300 and hope you won't get dizzy in reading them.

And please sober yourself from intoxicating whiskey or ganja or relaxing stimulants, and especially blinding hate, out of your mind and hope you can provide me, some answers where len had failed to do so.

I'm not going to repeat myself in this posting, not if I have to.

Don't try to run away from our questions, by books (of no weight) quotations, glimpse of a dialogue between intellectual Christians with simple minded Muslims. (Won't it be fair if the dialogue were, let say, involving intellectuals from both parties, say Ahmad Deedat or other scholars of Islam and not some Muslims you found around the corner.)

You have never answered my questions.

Do you, len or any Mr. Know it all Christians in this blog have read the Koran? Do you have any basic knowledge of us Muslims and our worldviews. Are we all Taliban thinking Muslims or followers of some of the brutal Pakistani Muslims? Don't over generalize us Muslims with those Muslims that have abandoned the just principles of Islam brought by Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. in the authentic collections of hadith, and Al Quran from established authority of Islam, not from some small bookshops that sold Penthouse, Playboy, and gossips of the sex,gays, gluttony of the never ending worldly lust.

We are not over generalizing you as mass murderers of innocent Vietnamese, the wipers of Inca and Aztec, the proud masters of the colony, looters of the Commonwealth countries, slayers of the human race and last but not least, the nukers of the unarmed Japanese women, children, old ones and their adorable pets.

28 July 2009 at 01:29  
Blogger srizals said...

Its 8.28 in the morning here in the land of the Malays. Are you still awake?

28 July 2009 at 01:30  
Blogger srizals said...

Sweet dreams you guys.

Hope we can meet in dreams where we don't have to attack each other and live in peace, side by side, prospering one another, with no fear of dominance and power twisting and finger pointing, no matter what truth we believe in.

It is a dream I have.

28 July 2009 at 01:45  
Anonymous len said...

I re-post my question to muslims. Bible or Koran?


Which has the authentic record?

‘Why should I believe that someone who lived 600 years after the event and hundreds of miles away from where it happened had the authentic record rather than those who were eye witnesses?’ This was a question I posed to a Muslim who claimed that the Koran not the New Testament is the accurate account of what happened in the life of Jesus. His response was that the Christians (and the Jews) have ‘changed the books’ of the Bible. So I asked him, ‘Did they change the books before Mohammed or after Mohammed?’ He was reluctant to answer this question because either way it raises big problems for Muslims.

srizals, If you ask me a specific question I will do my best to answer it.

28 July 2009 at 08:02  
Anonymous jock said...

Len has got you by the books.Try to
insult and abuse your way out of this one boofhead.

28 July 2009 at 08:52  
Blogger Maria said...

Although the Bible is no longer the Word of God, I still think that it should be respected as it is the Holy Book of Christians.

Len said: “Bible or Koran? Which has the authentic record?”

Muslims believe in four books that God sent as guidance for people they were sent to. They were: Tawrah or Law revealed to prophet Moses (a.s.), Zabur or Psalms revealed to prophet David (a.s.), ‘Injil or Gospel revealed to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary and Qur’an revealed to prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.).

Law, Psalms and Gospels are no longer in their original book. The average muslim will tell you that they have been changed because they haven’t studied the origin of the bible. I have read that there are 5,300 versions of Bibles, which are being displayed in the British Museum. For each version, no two manuscripts are identical.

Muslims have Qur’an as Book or Word of God and Hadith, a compilation of the sayings of prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) on what he did and said on different matters while he was alive. Some compilers of hadith are authentic and some compilers are not authentic.

The Gospels according to Mark, Matthew, Luke and John are like Hadith, not the single Gospel that was originally revealed as one Book or Word of God to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary. What is interesting to note since they are like Hadith, these Gospels are not authentic because they don’t have chain of narrators going back to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, if Jesus (a.s.), son of Mary, really did or said those teachings.

They are not eyewitnesses of Jesus Christ. Mark was written 60 to 75 A.C. He was the son of St. Barnabas’ sister. Mathew was a tax collector, a minor official who did not travel around Jesus. Luke’s Gospel was written much later, and is in fact drawn from the same source as Mark’s and Mathew’s. Luke was Paul’s physician and like Paul never met Jesus. John’s Gospel was written in about 100 A.C. He should not be confused with John, the Disciple who was another man.

28 July 2009 at 09:28  
Anonymous oiznop said...

Your Grace,

His Holiness agrees with you!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1202632/Pope-attacks-art-vandalising-Bible.html

28 July 2009 at 10:48  
Blogger Maria said...

Len, I think srizals is referring to my question in the MJ...which religion will prevail blog. The question was:

Who is the prophet in the New Testament, not the Old Testament, who said Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, said: "Worship Me. I am the son of God, Your Lord and Saviour" and all others that you quoted there like "I am the Way, The Truth and the Life", etc...

Your answer was: The Old Testament prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary.

Your answer was not my question.

Srizals, brother salam. I think this is not a hate site. Just relax brother and be friendly with them.

28 July 2009 at 11:25  
Blogger srizals said...

Salam my sister Maria.
Yes, I feel more at home here than blogs of Atheist and Zionist. Maybe because their reverences towards Nabi Isa a.s. and the truth. I will try to restrain myself.

But see, the brutalities and oppressions faced by Muslims are very near to my homeland, the land of the Malays. I witnessed the slaughter of Malay Pattani by the Thais buddhist, The Malay Moro by the Liars who called them corrupted government of the Philippines and my own blood brothers, the Malay and the Banjarese, in Maluku, Indonesia when Christian Batak chopped them to pieces, with dead children hands still bound by nylon ropes.

The horror are very real to me and the people of the land of the Malays. But I am not one of them, blind haters. I pray to Allah to indulges me with patience in dealing with my Christian cousin, like the Darwinist cousin's I think, but they think they have some blood relation with the apes n monkeys, the Ex Muslims Atheist, the Hindus, the Buddhist, everyone. You see, I'm living in a multi cultural and religion societies. It is a blessing in disguise after all.
And not like you who are arguing with me,erm, let say discuss, it sounds much better, I have many Christians, Hindus, Buddhist and even Atheist friends here. I sure like to make friends with the Jews.
To get to know them better. You see, we have a very small Jewish community here. And of course, there are no pogroms here. It's not Christian's land, It's the land of the Malays. Almost time for Maghrib prayer here, my sister, I have to drew my sword, eh my pen. Don't be jumpy now Christians. Catch u later guys. Keep em comin, Keep em comin..

28 July 2009 at 12:02  
Blogger srizals said...

Ops, sorry, I meant to say keep my sword, not drew. Don't be afraid now. C U. erm.. I wonder what happened to the clown who called himself Joe... erm..

28 July 2009 at 12:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The pontiff is smack on: this wouldn't have been contemplated with the Koran. This is another gratuitous attack on Christianity. I'm searching for any denouncement by our own Archbishop of Canterbury ... there doesn't appear to be one. No doubt he is burying his head in the sand and hoping no one will notice. He's a disgrace to the Church of England.

- John Collins, Harpenden, 28/7/2009 09:16

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk

28 July 2009 at 12:35  
Anonymous len said...

Maria,

I do not understand your question, could you -re phrase it please

28 July 2009 at 13:39  
Anonymous len said...

Maria ,
the Koran says,"And if thou (Mohammed) art in doubt concerning that which we reveal unto thee, then question those who read the scripture that was before thee’ (i.e. the Bible). Sura (chapter) 10.95. ‘O ye people of the book! Ye are not grounded on anything until ye observe the Taurat (Torah) and the Injil (Gospel) and that which has been revealed unto you from your Lord.’ Sura 5.68.

28 July 2009 at 13:42  
Anonymous Liberator said...

Maria.
Muhammad did not question the accuracy of the Bible. THat accusation came centuries later at a time when Muslim scholars realized there were contradictions between the Quran & the Bible, of course being followers of Islam they claimed that the Bible was wrong despite the fact that the Bible pre-dates the Quran by 600 years & the Quran points to the Bible as truth more than 120 times in historical research the former has precedence over the latter. The teaching of the Bible being corrupted is totally without substance as none of the scholars that originated this teaching were around when the original was produced to see where any changes were made. The doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints (the Mormons) hold a similar belief to your own, a prophet (Joseph Smith) meeting a so called Angel (Moroni) who revealed new revelations to him & showed him plates of gold with strange inscriptions on them that when translated became the book of Mormon. Which was true, The Bible or the book of Mormon? According to your deductions the latest holds precedent over both the Bible, and the Quran so By your process of thought we should ALL be Mormons! I'm not trying to be flippant but simply attempting to illustrate a point, that the Torah & the Injil testify to One another over Thousands of years, that in them the Power, Majesty, Grace , Mercy & Love of God are revealed, also His plan of Salvation, concealed in the Torah but revealed in the Injil. There is no doubt or debate to be had, I simply ask you & Srizals to meditate on these things & ask God to give you sight to see the truth & embrace it however difficult you may find it. Liberator.

28 July 2009 at 14:24  
Anonymous Liberator said...

Apologies len for jumping in, I didn't know you were corresponding with Maria.
Liberator.

28 July 2009 at 14:50  
Blogger srizals said...

Liberator my friend, they were of one source. The same one God. I will publish the 10 commandments after this. Maybe you can explain in more details to me the so call Judeo-Christian era.
I would really like to say that we are not the same and our God is different. But the truth is the truth.
May I know which Gospels are you reading my friend? Is it on daily basis? How many times a day? Is there any phrase that stick in your heart like the Koran in the heart of Muslims? Thanks. Almost 10 o'clock in the night now. I didn't fully recover from my tiredness of my lack of sleep it seems. Hope u can respond quickly.

28 July 2009 at 15:03  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@ Maria: The Koran was not even written when Mohammed died... and first assembled, on the command of Utman, by the secretary of Mohammed. Then after different factions of muslims started to fight each other on the battlefield, then sheik Utman installed a commission to come to an official Koran. They took the private collection made by Zaid as a basis, and added to it, corrected it, and thus came to an officla Koran. All other versions were commanded to be destroyed.

Now, how can you or anyone else, consider this the Word of Allah, a 'perfect copy next to the throne of Allah?" And even - without knowing anything about the Bible and how it came into existence, say that used to be the Word of God?

Allah is not even God, so worshipper of Allah, how could you speak about God?

I want to refer you to some more information about the background of the Koran. Click on this to come to a playlist where you can find 15 videos about it: The Koran did not exist when Mohammed died!

28 July 2009 at 15:12  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

My apologies: I made some improvements on what I just wrote:

The Koran did not exist when Mohammed died! The Koran was not even written when Mohammed died... and first assembled, on the command of sheik Uthman, by the secretary of Mohammed Zaid ibn Thabit . Then after different factions of muslims started to fight each other on the battlefield because of differences in the Korans they had, sheik Uthman, who had then become caliph, installed a commission to come to an official Koran. They took the private collection made by Zaid as a basis, and added to it, corrected it, and thus came to an official Koran. All other versions were commanded to be destroyed.

Here is a link with some more information about it: Click on: The Origins of the Koran - Edited by Ibn Warraq This link does not replace the link with the 15 videos. It simply adds to it.

Now, how can anyone consider this the Word of Allah, a 'perfect copy next to the throne of Allah?"

And even - without knowing anything about the Bible and how it came into existence, say that used to be the Word of God? Allah is not even God, so worshipper of Allah, how could you speak about God?

28 July 2009 at 15:41  
Blogger srizals said...

Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@ Maria: The Koran was not even written when Mohammed died... and first assembled, on the command of Utman,

Ahh, at last, A Christian statement to contradict the Christians accusations of Muhammad had written Al Quran by copying the Hebrew Taurat and the Gospels, ermm, in what language eh? Someone plz tell me which Gospels were the Christians in Arabia had read at that time. (Surely you have some records eh. You said you have documented recording of everything there is to know right? My historical writings are locked safe in your museum when you were eh, taking care of our wealth and honour ..I wonder when would Great Britain be Great enough to return all the things that doesn't belong to her in the first place.)What were those Gospels the Barnabas? The newest gospel mentioned in godontrial? According to whom? Who were the Christians actually?? Were they believers of the son of god, or the believers of Isa the prophet of God?

I'm holding my tongue. Even though I'm jumping in joy for at last hearing this coming from a Christian. I will copy your statement kind sir and paste it in my webpage afterwards. Thank you again.

28 July 2009 at 15:59  
Blogger srizals said...

plz. plz. Maria,, before slumber gets me. Oh, you going to get it man. My brain is twisting mad now...Thank you, Thank you again my ...distant cousin.
Could you plz publish the ten commandments too plz. Thank you again. peace. 11:07 at night in the land of the Malays.

28 July 2009 at 16:09  
Blogger srizals said...

Ahh,, the Labyrinth, Anyone still remember it. Nice movie. N the dialogue that kept on talking in my mind right now was when Sarah end up with two doors for her to choose from. Well, the doors are talking doors, One of them would always tell the truth and one of them would always lies. I love your movies. Very inspiring.
Well here’s the script of the movie.

Sarah: Oh no! Someone has been changing my marks. What a horrible place this is. It's not fair!
Guard 1: That's right! It's not fair.
(Sarah turns around and sees that the dead end now has two doors. Each door is guarded. There are two guards for each door. Basically two of them are upside down. They are guards 2 & 4, and guards 1 & 3 are the guards standing correctly.)
Guards: (Laugh)
Guard 2: That's only half of it.
Sarah: This was a dead end a minute ago.
Guard 4: No, that's the dead end behind you.
(Sarah turns to look and sure enough it is now a dead end behind her.)
Guards: (Laugh)
Sarah: It keeps changing! What am I supposed to do?
Guard 2: Try one of these doors.
Guard 4: One of them leads to the castle at the center of the Labyrinth, and the other one leads to…
Guard 1: Ba ba ba bum!
Guard 2: …certain death!
Guards: Oooooh!
Sarah: Which one is which?
Guard 2: We can't tell you.
Sarah: Why not?
Guard 2: Uh, I uh…We don't know.
Guard 4: But they do. (looks up at the other half of the guard)
Sarah: Oh. Then I'll ask them.
Guard 3: Uh, you can't ask us….you can only ask one of us.
Guard 1: It's in the rules. And you should know that one of us always tells the truth, and one of us always lies. That's a rule too, he (pointing at Guard 3) always lies.
Guard 3: I do not! I tell the truth!
Guard 1: Oh what a lie!
Doors laughing...

I was just a kid back then. Still inspiring till even now.

28 July 2009 at 16:45  
Anonymous len said...

Maria, There are scholars who believe the Gospel of Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ. Those who hold to this earlier dating of Matthew believe he first wrote his Gospel in Aramaic, and then it was later translated into Greek. One of the evidences of this earlier dating of Matthew’s Gospel is that early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Eusebius recorded that Matthew first wrote his gospel for Jewish believers while he was still in Palestine. In fact Eusebius, (a bishop of Caesarea and known as the father of church history), reported that Matthew wrote his Gospel before he left Palestine to preach in other lands, which Eusebius says happened about 12 years after the death of Christ. Some scholars believe that this would place the writing of Matthew as early as A.D. 40-45 and as late as A.D. 55.

Even if the Gospels were not written until 30 years after Christ’s death, that would still place the writing of them prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This presents no major problem with their authority or accuracy. Passing on oral traditions and teachings was commonplace in the Jewish culture of that day, and memorization was highly cultivated and practiced. Also, the fact that even at that time there would have been a considerable number of eyewitnesses around to dispute and discredit any false claims,

28 July 2009 at 19:33  
Blogger srizals said...

4:35 a.m. in the morning in the land of the Malays.
Guys guess what? I've stumbled upon a blog quite similar of faith freedom.org, well, in faith freedom, everyone seems to be shooting at Islam, but this blog seems to be shooting at you guys. There is a similarity between them.

Both of them claimed they are atheist before leaving Islam and Christianity. Wanna check it out and defend your faith?

Go here
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/

Well, good luck you guys. Wish me luck too, coz I already wielding my sword at faith freedom, I can't do the same for u guys. U have to fight your own battle.

Oh, before I forgot, in faith freedom the Ex Muslims are mostly not Imam and honcho of Islamic scholars, most of them originated from Syiah Muslims which Sunnah Muslims considered as deviated Muslims. On the other hand, the opponents that awaits you are somebody in your churches, so my advice for you guys is read up your bible before you open up your arguments. Len, Preacher, your crusade awaits.

28 July 2009 at 21:46  
Blogger srizals said...

Oh, Preacher, I'm not confused at all.

You see, the more and more I learn and knew about others' truth, the more and more I am convinced of my truth.

I even asked the scholars of Islam when I'm in any doubts or confused about something in my faith.
They of course would be dizzy and had to think hard to answer my curiosities.
Well, they are the wise ones right? Top ranking scholars of faith right? I'm just the average Joe. Don't you think that the authority of our religion should be actively engaging in issues concerning our religions, our conducts in living this test we called life?
All the issues constantly emerging from the thinking animal, the human beings. On daily basis.


You see, this is my self actualization or something, based on the theory of humanistic views.

Could you plz make a quotations or time line in the postings in this blog that contain my writings that u claimed where I contradict myself or as being a confused person.

Do answer plz and not just read n read,..afraid to respond to me. Afraid of answering me. Lots of my questions to you guys left unanswered. N Len seems to be perplexed to which questions whereas he can easily explore for hours the recent postings in this blog n even if Cranmer had deleted them, I had copied everything and would be gladly repost it here or somewhere in the Worldwide Web.

28 July 2009 at 22:30  
Blogger srizals said...

5.11 am in the land of the Malays, blessed with abundance of natural resources that seem exhaustive. I hope we won't get leaders like what the westerners had experienced with bushy boo and bliar that kept on smiling when they had dropped their own countrymen into the meat grinder fighting for the 'balllesness' of the Zionist army which claimed they are among the mightiest armies in the world. Why don't you guys asked those cowards, baby killers, instead of fighting Palestinian fire crackers, why don't they join you in Afghanistan and face the much out dated warriors of the Hindu Kush.

My advice to you, get your troops out of there. What are they defending and fighting for anyway? Do you even know?

The much brutal Soviet met their match, well mostly with the help of you guys, the democracy of the west, remember? We were ally back then, against the dreaded Soviet Atheist.
But its history now and you started to turn your guns and nukes towards us. The Muslims, forbidden forever to kill babies, children, civilians. Forbidden forever to have free sex with everyone without holy matrimony. Forbidden forever from the flesh of the swine and intoxicating drinks or drugs. Forbidden forever to promote chaos and anarchy whether in financial or in the well being of the human beings.

And yet you despise us...We even love Isa a.s., well not to the extent of worshipping him, and the zionist Jews sure despise him and even claimed that they killed him. N yet you are closer to them than to us, your distant cousin. N fought us in battlefield on their behalf.

Why?

I am not an Ayatollah you know. I am not a Syiah. I am not a Muktazilite. I don't belong to deviated Muslims cult that claimed they are following another last prophet after Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. , that Allah forgot to mention to us Muslims.

Whatever contradict with the Al Quran, is a falsity and easily rejected by Muslims, even though some claimed it was a recording of sentences uttered by the last prophet.

Even the hadith is not taken lightly. They must have a series of narrator n known to all the companions of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. that lived side by side, fought and bleed with our perfect examples of a human being in going through their lives. Even how to conduct themselves in wars.

For you Christians, erm, I think I'll will rephrase that, For you Westerners, the highly civilized gentlemen of the west, whenever you fought your wars, you gotta bomb and burn in mass, civilians. See, you forgot the code of chivalry that you guys learned from Saladin when you guys fought him in the crusades, remember?

I am a member of the As Sunnah wal Jama'ah. The mainstream Muslims, the way of the moderates. Which church or Christianity u belong to preacher? The Methodist? The Anglican?
Thanks Preacher for being able to read my postings. Don't give up on me yet, I'm not giving up on you.

28 July 2009 at 22:31  
Blogger srizals said...

I have to log off now u guys, its 5.46 a.m. in the morning in the land of the Malays. N the call for our morning prayer had just finished. I gotta go and meet my maker n recite Al Quran in my daily prayer starting with this morning prayer.

May God bless you all.

28 July 2009 at 22:48  
Blogger srizals said...

Hey not fair. Mr n Mrs Moderators, I suggest you kind gentlemen and women, not to change the links I provided if you really believe in whatever you want to believe.

Don't show how coward you are to me. I'm just the average Joe. Don't be afraid to cut my lies to pieces.
I provide the link again:

Debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com.

Don't piss me off. The moderators at danielpipes are not that moderate too. Erm, Are you guys the same moderators???

Hi, see you in hell.


8:54 a.m. in this lovely morning breeze in the land of the Malays.

What are you afraid of?

29 July 2009 at 01:57  
Blogger srizals said...

This comments was first published somewhere in the faith freedom.org.
Well, they don't believe in freedom of expressions after all eh?.

But they did publish it afterwards. So, I got to give a credit to them too.
Poor moderators, they must be afraid of the blog owners eh? I wonder who are really behind Ali Sina, a not so devout Shiah, a deviated sect of Muslims and ends up being an atheist specializing on hate and lies on Islam and dehumanizing the Mercy upon mankind, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.

Sure shows somethin, ain't it mule skinner. Still trying to outsmart me eh..
The moderators at danielpipes.org also seems to be very selective of my comments. I'm going to save them before posting. Sometimes my brain rolls faster than my typing fingers.

N I'm a fast typist, see. My Dad sure really know what he was doing when he forced me to take typing class while waiting for my exam results when I was 17 or 18 at that time, and I was the only male of to be a secretary in the class. Thanks Dad. You wisdom sure had helped me a lot in my days as a writer.

I'm pissed off.

N I'm going to devote myself to you guys. Cookers of lies and Quoters of books not of wisdom. I love your parroting abilities. I really do.

Not matter how hectic it would be around me, with my 2 n a half years old baby boy and a toddler who thinks he's spiderman and my nagging 9 years old daughter and my 12 years old son that starting to be like his father, ermm.. flirting with the girls but whoa..way off too young...
N not forgetting my ever loyal supporter, my wife that would always called me every 5 minutes and had me to do something somewhere in the house.
Geez. I do envy you, the lonely men and women, unmarried, devoting yourself to god. Alone with your books and me in here. N had all the time in the world to rebuke me, find my typo errors, ridicule my sms style of writing, n inconsistencies, well now you know why I prefer an sms style of writing. I was in a hurry all the time, had to think, had to entertain my kids, protecting my computer from them, little terminators... I'm not a full time paid writer. I'm just the average Joe with hectic lives.
I wonder if this is my wife strategies of making me think twice of marrying a second wife. Wow, with two lovely women of chaste and double the kids that I'm having right now, I would surely fall an easy prey to you guys, well equiped, highly effective time managers, with 12 team members in hot offices, paid thousands to compose your lies and hatred towards Islam and exposing my lies and stupidity.

But I ain't complaining, c, it's a labour of love afterall. 9:40 a.m. and the morning breeze still feels cool when they entered my nose...What a bliss...

29 July 2009 at 02:42  
Anonymous len said...

Bible or Koran? The Qur'an is jumbled together haphazardly. It’s almost as if verses were tossed into the air, blown by the wind, and then pieced together as they were plucked from the sand. The 1st surah, or chapter, was never revealed, and it's written in the wrong voice. The 2nd surah was the ninety-first received chronologically, yet it is the first revelation in the Qur'an. The 5th surah was the last in order of alleged revelation. Muhammad claims that his initial inspiration can be found in the 96th surah, which means Allah’s initial salvo is tucked in the back of the book.

Unrelated subjects are brought together without intelligent transitions. Allah’s book lacks context as well. It does not explain who is talking to whom or even when or where its narratives took place. But that's not the worst of it. The Qur'an is so poorly written that one in five verses makes no sense in any language. This is why Muslims don't want it translated out of Religious Arabic - a language few understand.

And that's not the end of the bad news. Much of the Qur'an is plagiarized from uninspired Jewish writings, most often from the Talmud. Allah’s book is repetitive to a fault. The same stories are retold dozens of times. There are countless contradictions and a plethora of scientific and historical errors.

The Bible,
Proves itself to be the Word Of God by prophesy alone.

29 July 2009 at 08:52  
Blogger srizals said...

Ok, Len now you are really talking. I'm all ears.

29 July 2009 at 10:37  
Blogger srizals said...

Is this all Len. Are there anymore? But aa.. can you quote or narrow down to specific verses in the Koran itself. Don't play the over generalization card. It would be difficult for our readers to understand the real issues here. Thanks.

7.49 p.m. and the red sky beginning to fade in total darkness. Dusk n Dawn. Subhanallah. All praise to Allah.

29 July 2009 at 12:50  
Blogger srizals said...

Len, remember that you said your Lord, our God knocks on our heart and speak with us directly and reveal Himself in our dreams and you claimed this is behind the mass apostasy by Muslims to Christianity, right?

You wanted to know who is talking to whom, right? I mean in the Koran, right?

Well, it is God himself that is talking to us. Remember, we Muslims said Al Quran is a word of God. And most of the time he is addressing us, Muslims, Israelite, the people of the book, which is you and of course all mankind 1,400 years ago and still is now. You see, He hadn't leave us all by ourselves at all Len, with no connection whatsoever wiith Him. That is why Al Quran is considered a miracle by us. Allah himself is narrating things that had past, things happening now and things in the future. You see, God isn't bound to time and space. Both are also His creation. He is the creator of all things.
You are just quoting some books again without any depth of understanding it seems. I can fill up this blog with words of God himself talking to you, as I did, but you still ignored it.
We don't believe in dreams Len, especially when someone in the dream is claiming he is god. A curious person would surely knock his head and realized it was Satan himself in person, like when he approached the composer of Christianity, the prophet of Christianity, Paul.
God is talking to you. Are you listening Len?

Blogger dutchlionfrans1953, you have to wait your turn. I'll deal with you when Maria is here with us. Be patient, I'm not reading or preparing my answers. It is already in my head when I read your comments. Please stop quoting, and ask from your heart. But you guys can't do that unless you guys read Al Quran, but you are too scared to read it right?

Al Quran is a complete book before Jibrail brought it to Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. verse by verse not in its chronological orders, why? It would be confusing for the Muslims at that time of course because the verse dealt with all the events that Allah had foreseen there and even now. Of course now we had a complete one since it had passed 1,400 years ago. But the event kept on repeating itself, like you guys are doing right now, questioning Al Quran and His Prophet again like in the past.
For example a verse explaining the purity of Aishah from accusations from double faced traitors who acts like Muslims would surely baffled the Muslims back then when the event hadn't even taken place yet.

29 July 2009 at 14:44  
Blogger srizals said...

He is talking to you, go grab the Koran. Ask questions and find it out yourself. Actually you don't even have to ask me that question. I read Al Quran on daily basis Len. Not on Sundays, listening to translation based on English based on Latin based on Greek based on Hebrew. Layers after layers surely something wrong would happened right? The meaning is interpretrated by different people mastering not all of the languages and at different intervals of time separated from one another.

Listen to Him Len, it is better if you could read the translation in English from Arabic n listen to it in its original voice, the voice of the Arabs. Well? What do you expect? Of course it would be a human narrating it once more to you. Repeating the words of Allah in verbatim.

But if you listen very carefully for the message, you'll be surprised that God himself is talking to you. Not in dreams. But in reality. Asking you why you have made a mere human as His equals when you don't have such knowledge, (When are you going to post the ten commandments Len, I would gladly do it, but I'm afraid the people in here would say I fabricated it according to my understanding.)

You still are avoiding my questions.
Maybe you have forgotten them or cannot located them since you are scrolling down like flash Gordon.
My questions:-
1. Why do Christians love to eat pork when it was forbidden for them to eat swine in the first place in their gospels?
2. Why do Christians put up equals to God, up to three god in one and by doing so abandoned one of the commandments?
3. Why do Christians love to kill and inflict tortures to human beings whereas they claimed all Christians are redeemed by the blood of the son of god, Why do you guys need to spill blood of the weak and innocence? And yet again broken another commandments of God.

This three would be enough for now.
I'm waiting. 9:30 p.m. at night and I have to fetch my son from his tuition class. Quite tired today since me and the guys went on jungle exploring to look for trees that can be turned into Bonsai. Do you guys have Bonsai there?

I'm not going to consider you as stupid or anything. Don't be afraid. I respect you guys. It is common for humans to err and straighten himself up to the path of the truth.

No one ever claimed that he had tortured and killed Allah. No one ever claimed that he had seen Allah. Moses wanted to do so but the mountain behind him melted and he fainted before God revealed himself to the world remember? Why? He is the most powerful of them all. Everything belongs to Him, Everything that is happening even when my fingers are typing this keyboard is under His knowledge. Why? Well He is all knowing. He's God. What do you expect?
The limitation and weaknesses of mere creatures?

29 July 2009 at 14:44  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

It's all about living in the crazy world of New Labour. Like going through the Looking Glass, meeting Harry Potter and having an ernest discussion with Mrs.Tiggywinkle all at once!

Enough to make us all mad!

29 July 2009 at 16:06  
Anonymous batu ferringhi said...

Oh I don't know! It's all rather eastern and quaint.The syntax and
expression has improved enormously
in the last couple of posts.Must be
sober for once.Bonsai indeed!Up to
your old mutilation tricks again.

29 July 2009 at 17:02  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@ muslim-vomiter srizals: You go on and on and on, and I am only going to take this one item where you wrote, and I quote: "Forbidden forever to have free sex with everyone without holy matrimony."

Don't you know islam knows even a marriage for one night? Or even shorter? In Arabic: Nikāḥ al-Mut‘ah. This is why Islam is the most immoral of all societies!

Mutah!

Click on: Temporary Marriage in Islam

And here you can read more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut

And: http://www.islamawareness.net/Marriage/Mutah/

And: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6a/1.html

I copy just the beginning of it: "Fixed-Term/Temporary/Pleasure Marriage are different names for the Arabic word of "Mut'a" which is a contract between a man and woman, much in the same way the Long-Term/Permanent/Conventional Marriage is. The main difference is that the temporary marriage longs only for a specified period of time, and man and woman will become stranger to each other after the expiration date without divorce. One misconception regarding temporary marriage is that some people think that the woman engaged in temporary marriage can have contract every other hour. This is completely misrepresentation of temporary marriage. After such contract has been expired, the woman has to wait for two months (Iddah) before which she can not marry any one else. This issue, among others, will be discussed later in detail.

The first one who legislated Mut'a with all the rules pertaining to it, was the Messenger of Allah, Mohammed, after it was revealed in Quran. All Muslims agree that the Messenger of Allah legislated Mut'a and made it legal after his migration to Medina, and the Muslims practiced it during his lifetime. (see al-Mughni, by Ibn Qudamah, v6, p644, 3rd Edition)." Go to the site for the whole article!

Who are you fooling, srizals ?

This is far far worse an arrangement than a prostitute!

I can not give more links, because Cranmer will take them off. You can find them on google for "temporary marriage in islam"

29 July 2009 at 22:05  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

Of course it is clear that the author of the last article is a muslim man.

He says the woman involved in Mutah has to wait for two months. This may be so, for one good reason: She may have become pregnant and if so, her wait of two months will leave no doubt as to who the father is.

But the author of that article gives no comment about the man. He obviosuly can have mutah - 'marriage for pleasure' as much as his money allows him!

What a terrible ummah - society - Islam is! Except for horney men who have money, and or power. For them, and for all these horney mullahs, and Mohammed, it is the perfect society! To behave like this in civilised societies would get them all imprisoned! (at least up to recently!)

29 July 2009 at 22:12  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

I found a site where the author exalts the 'virtues' of this temporary 'marriage: http://home.swipnet.se/islam/articles/Temp.Marriage.htm.

Let me quote a short passage which shows where the Quranic justification of this 'temporary marriage for pleasure' is found: "The chapters on "Temporary Marriage" in the book "Vassa'el" report that the Prophet posted an edict in the streets and bazaars which read: "O people! Allah's Apostle has made temporary marriage permissible for you, for the quenching of the fires of the sex instinct, and for turning it to sound uses, that ye may not be the slaves of sexual licence, fornication or illicit relationships." By this law the man and woman enter upon a marriage, not of permanence, but of a limited time, and live as man and wife until the expiry of the stated period. The only difference in this type of marriage is that it does not carry with it the same rights of inheritance, nor does the man have to continue to provide the woman's food, clothing and shelter after the termination of their relationship. But to preserve proper order all the other rules that govern permanent marriage must also be observed in the temporary marriage.

A woman who enters such a contract is counted as the man's real wife and can claim all the rights which are legally specified as such. As it is written in Sura IV. Nisa'a-"The Women" (verse 24): "To women whom you choose in temporary and conditional (muwaqat and muta'a) marriage, give their dowry, as a duty."

The only difference between permanent marriage and temporary marriage, so far as its social status is concerned, is its duration. If the contract specifies a definite and limited period, that is a temporary marriage. But the wife is as much a wife as if the contract had specified "a permanent and unlimited period." The children of the temporary marriage are recognised on precisely the same footing as those of a permanent marriage, and enjoy all the legal and canonical and customary rights of children whose paternity is recognised."


This makes me sick!

...And this is the kind of society we in the civilised West now accept to take root in the midst of us, and treat as equal to our society and civilisation.

How our politicians and media etc. have betrayed us!

29 July 2009 at 22:28  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

The article goes on to say: "Temporary marriage preserves the aspect of purity and saves people from sin." PARDON???? Did I read that right???

And it goes on to criticise our Western society! Well, why dón't you leave? Go home to your 'perfect ummah,' your islamic countries. And leave us be!

...And this is the kind of society we in the civilised West now accept to take root in the midst of us, and treat as equal to our society and civilisation.

How our politicians and media etc. have betrayed us!

To understand the difference between the concept of sin in our society and Islam

Islam calls sin, or haram, unlawful all that Allah has declared unlawful. So in the muslim mind this temporary 'marriage' is not sinful or unlawful, since Allah prescribed this marriage of pleasure, which in our Western minds is one of the, if not thé most sinful and immoral acts possible.

29 July 2009 at 22:54  
Blogger srizals said...

Blogger dutchlionfrans1953

Ah contract marriage eh, thank you 4 bringing it up. Not so ignorant now are we.
Hi Batu Feringhi.
Nice name. Have u been there?
Then u know what its like in the land of the Malays eh.
While you at it, I mean dutchlionfrans1953, do look up about alcohol issues too. I'm helping u out right here now. Since someone in here mention about sober eh.
Thanks u guys. For answering my questions with another questions.

You see. I'm a Malay. I come from a culture where its warriors are bullet proof and had thick skins which made us Malay warriors invincible.
We don't have swords back in our medieval days, each one of us had keris, a dagger like knife, curvaceous and quite short, coz eh, we love close encounters with cowards, baby killers rather than long range phosphorous bombs. We want to feel close with our enemy.

Islam came and perfected us much, much more better.

29 July 2009 at 23:03  
Blogger srizals said...

Ops, sorry I forgot, 6:15 a.m. and the light mist is refreshing as always. Not too cold, just so nice.
Wish you guys could be here. N I can show u around, we have one or two of the most beautiful island in the world. I would gladly be your tourist guide n maybe we can have more discussions face to face eh.
Gotta go to work.

29 July 2009 at 23:16  
Blogger srizals said...

One more question before I forgot.
Why didn't you help your brothers, the Palestinian christians when they were being slaughtered with their cousins, the Palestinian Muslims and help them free the birth place of Isa a.s., the church of Nativity?

Do answer my questions kind sir, highly civilized gentlemen of the west, with a direct, clear cut, ....eh...questions.

29 July 2009 at 23:55  
Blogger srizals said...

Ah! Just on the news on my local morning papers,
60 bruised, gladly, non were killed in Madrid bombing.
I wonder who were these cowards..ermm

30 July 2009 at 02:18  
Blogger Maria said...

Liberator, Len and others,

Liberator said “There is no doubt or debate to be had, I simply ask you & srizals to meditate on these things & ask God to give you sight to see the truth & embrace it however difficult you may find it. Liberator.”

Liberator, I was already a Catholic Christian 11 years ago. Before I opened the Bible, I prayed hard to Jesus Christ since that time I was relying all to him as a saviour and lord. But, honestly, All praise is due to God Almighty for He gave me the guidance for it’s only through the grace of God that guidance can be acquired for God is the only one who knows what’s in each of our hearts.

Islam is a religion that God commanded for people or mankind to follow as God Almighty “Allah”(s.w.t) said in Holy Qur'an Al Ma'idah 5:3:

"...This day I have Perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

In Surah Aal-I-Imran 3:85, Allah (s.w.t.) also says:

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam never will it be accepted of Him and in the hereafter is one of the losers”.

There are three reasons why all other religions & ideologies are not the the religion that God commanded for people to follow, therefore, they are not made by God but made by men:

1. The Name of Religion or Ideology. Examine your Holy Book, whatever book you are following. The name of religion “Christianity”, “Judaism”, “Buddhism”, “Hinduism”, “Zoroastrianism” and other sects, ideologies and religions are not mentioned in their holy books (i.e. from very first page to last page of Bible whether in New Testament or Old Testament, and other holy book respectively) that God said mankind has to follow their religion or ideology respectively.

2. The religion or ideology is named after names of men. For example, Christianity is named after Christ Jesus (a.s.), Judaism after the clan Judah, Buddhism after the reformer Buddha, Hinduism after the tribe Hindus, Zoroastrianism after Zoroaster, etc...

3. Most importantly, they call or worship a Creation as God which in the sight of God is the Greatest Evil because God created All Creations to acknowledge, recognize and worship God Alone, no one else and nothing else. For example, Christianity worship Jesus Christ , as son of God (a created being), Hinduism worships trees and animals (all created beings), Zoroastrianism worships fire (another created being), Buddhism who believes that the world is not created and no ruler but believes that the spirit (another created being) is in each individual, etc...

An interest thing to note, if all the above mentioned religions don’t have evidence themselves that their religion is to be followed, how much more Darwin’s Theory of Evolution on which the atheists, etc... who don’t believe in God want to support as evidence? All parts of human body and fossils discovered as evidence of the theory did not evolve but remain the same for billions and billions of years until today - - an evidence that they are created.

God Almighty Allah (s.w.t.) says so many times in the Qur’an how He Created All Creations as SIGNS for people to reflect. Allah (s.w.t.) chose the name Islam as a religion for people because of its meaning “Submission to the will and commands of Allah (s.w.t.)”. Obviously, ALL Creations (i.e. universe, human being, angels, seas, mountains, animals, trees, etc...) including all parts of human body (i.e. heart beats, blood flows, etc...) function under the Will and Command of Allah (s.w.t.).

30 July 2009 at 02:59  
Blogger srizals said...

Alhamdulillah, Praise be to Allah for granting me to be here and read this and protect my heart from the ridicules of the Unbelievers. May Allah endowed me with patience and placed me among those who are able to restraint themselves. Amin ya Rabbal'alamin. Grant me, O Lord of the worlds.

30 July 2009 at 04:00  
Blogger Maria said...

dutchlionsfrans1953,

It seems you abhor Islam so much but can we question God Almighty of His plans, we are just mere creatures of God, so whatever He wills to do, He does, nobody can question it.

One of His plans is for Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, be saved from crucifixion, so Jesus Christ is alive in his own body. But since he is a human being like us, he needs to taste death like us. So, on his second coming, he will establish Islam that you abhor so much.

I'm sorry to say, that day, maybe, you are already dead. But Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary will promulgate the Commands of Allah (s.w.t.) in the world, whether you like it or not.

Nice chatting with you.

30 July 2009 at 05:18  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

My question is:

Who is the prophet of God in the New Testament, not the Old Testament, who said that Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary said: "Worship Me. I am son of God, your Lord, and Saviour"?

30 July 2009 at 05:22  
Blogger srizals said...

Thanks Batu Ferringhi, I took it as a complement. No, its not the booze. Its the hate and anger that had been burning deep inside of me for witnessing so much death of the little ones and all the innocents disregard of what or who they are.

You see, I am a human being and I am also a human being who submitted himself to the true God. Islam supplemented me as a Malay, it didn't degrade my being as a human being or as a Malay. It didn't change the fact that I am still a Malay. It made me better, much, much more better.

Thanks to the gentleness from Maria, its beginning to slowly leaving me.
Sorry, I'm a descendant of warriors, shot 10 to 20 times by Gurkhas and Indian troops to drop us when we had to get close to them and killed them with our keris, the dogs of the British, who fought us back then.
So the anger was dated long back ago and the contemporary tyranny hadn't help either.
Now do you understand what drives the terrorist? It is you. You are arrogant oppressors, slayers of babies, children, women and unarmed helpless frighten civilians. N you gloat at it.
Surely it would drive someone mad eventually.

Dutchlionsfrans1953,
There is a proverb or a saying by the dutch, "By asking, people will learn".

I'm comin 4 u after this. I'm quite sleepy. It's just after our afternoon prayer. I'll catch u later. Get ready to dodge my bullets.

30 July 2009 at 07:26  
Blogger srizals said...

I trembled upon watching the trailer God is not good in the webpage goddiscussion. Well thanks to your twisted Rabbis and Saints that made additions, omissions, that made them confused in identifying who is the villain and who is good. You painted that all of them, god, prophets, man of good, sinners, oppressors, sex lunatics, slayers, brutal killers, rapist, deviants, money worshipers, lunatics with the same characteristics!
You sick bastards, I hate you the twisters of the truth that had made these people unknowingly tried god and denounce Him.
I'm beginning to understand where does these Atheist came from. Well, no thanks to deviators of Islams, and lost Muslims also, foremost, I had to say this, the Syiah. Ali Sina was one of them. Well, thanks to their deviated and awkward ways, and sick sect that claimed they were Imam Mahadi, another prophets that God forgot to mention to the Muslims, etc. etc. all deviators you also had a part in this. Shame on you.
But read the Koran all of you. You will easily differentiate the characters of God, His prophets, Muslims, be it Israelite, or Nasrani, and the liars, killers, rapists and those who profits by nurturing hate, chaos and anarchy of man kind.
This is Len, why we Muslims "had claimed" the earlier books of Allah had been corrupted.
I can hear the azan for my evening prayer calling me to the house of God. I have to go now.

30 July 2009 at 09:41  
Anonymous Liberator said...

Maria.
As usual you have missed the point, is the Mormon faith now the true faith? they have produced a prophet 500 years after Muhammed, does that make Joseph Smith the new true prophet of God? he also had an angel called Moroni who bought him a new revelation, was it a true revelation?. Religion how ever complex or wordy is no substitute for a relationship with the living God, thats why your former faith was dead and you looked elsewhere. Out of the frying pan into the fire. If I didn't care for both you and Srizals, I would no longer continue to post, but you just argue around in circles like people in a dream. Wake up and smell the coffee. I will pray for you both.

30 July 2009 at 11:16  
Blogger srizals said...

thanks Liberator for not giving up on us, You sir is my worthy debater, can't bx j cnb vkbgd,bccdkxbccsdbkvsnxbzjcjxbzczxzsvdjsfcxnz nnlhknvvm,bmf,nnnbfbmv bdmffbddbndnfbnndbnfn b ffvfb nmvnnfnuhhfjsjeurryrurytyiriuigrhhhuudjfnjnjkbn n n kmvxhchfghvfyfgducghdhfhjjb h jxjchjxfbzbxhxzxbhzxfshsxhvvx vhhhxxvgftdtgfstfgysushgussxvgyxuuxvvbxbnxcxzzgxgxhhx

30 July 2009 at 11:37  
Blogger srizals said...

Sorry if I baffled u, this is so funny to me, and also to proof to u guys I'm not some hired guns, my toddler typed it while I was attending to my ultraman, ultrababy to be precised. I can't keep this up. Catch u later Liberator. Thanks kind sir. My daughter is knocking the door now.

30 July 2009 at 11:39  
Anonymous English rose said...

@ Maria
Tis but thy name that is my enemy....What's in a name?that which we call a rose by any other
name would smell as sweet

30 July 2009 at 11:58  
Anonymous batu f said...

Put down thy dagger
Release the poison from your heart
like the hibiscus open your soul to the beauty of the morn and sit
on the golden sands and sing the
Rasa Sayang(stolen from Indonesia)

30 July 2009 at 12:31  
Blogger srizals said...

I like u batu f, maybe we can be friends like Richard the lion heart and the uniter of Muslims, Saladin.

Do you know the code of Bushido?, Another thing from the east. The way of the brave Japanese warriors of course. Well, they have this habit of knowing their enemies before they engaged in swords duel. I love their brave ways. The way of the warrior.

No, you don't get to copy them, you are the..erm..cowardly baby killers in uniform and your grandson got to gloat with their friends, like, "What?? Your grandpa fought the brave Babylonians? He got to murder and raped Iraqis and chopped and burn her sliced remains and killed all of her family, geez, my grandpa only got to blow the children of Afghanistan to pieces with fancy carpet bombs. Only their deadly WMD slippers are left intact!"

This is me.
I still can't erase the images of Jewish children signing bombs before they were dropped on who else, children too. Well the Christian and Muslim Palestinians of course, but don't bother, they are trash anyway and like the homeless, stayed and begged on someone's else property eh?

Yeah, yeah, I do understand that freak statement, we gotta right to live, coz we are the chosen people of god, you goyyim gotta right to die miserably, see, cause we got all the nukes, and uncle sam is with us, AIPAC, CFI, British 'balls' and they all love our money, sorry, our truthfully right passed down thousands of years ago when David slew Goliath, remember cattle people?
What? U got question it seems, well, don't ever asked about
Goliath. He was a monster from Mars!

What? Still not satisfied with all the money we gave u? We gave u more than enough, money and porn from our filthy rich Jewish bankers n ponzy n hedge funds managers n the loveable Jewish porn kings, (I do mean it literally).

30 July 2009 at 16:12  
Blogger srizals said...

Do you know Sasha Grey?? No, she isn't a Muslimah. Yeah, she got to come out on Oprah, she's a celebrity.

See, guys, you are not walking the talk. You kept on claiming we, Muslims are sick sex lunatics, over sexxed n all the hideous things related with sex. But in fact...erm..
Don't take my words 4 it. God gave u a brain to think n a heart to understand. Get them some exercises before u caught stroke or heart attack 4 consuming erm.. too much swine fats n booze. No, I never touched them, what do you expect? I'm not a breaker of God's commandments or my promise with God. U are!
Come on man, where's my answers?
Liberator, I'm not a mormon so I don't know much about them or are entitled to speak on their behalf n I know why u are so pissed off with them, they think Muhammad is a saint, n jesus was just a man too. I must differentiate u christians, n play the over generalisation card.
Did u know that before Muhammad was sent to the Arabs, among those who dwells there were Nasrani, followers of Isa a.s. , the Hanif, followers of prophet Abraham, n of course the deluded idol worshippers that even named one of their idols Allah which the dutch fired his bullets on.
Hhai.. all these accusations are out dated man. I knew them like 10 to 20 years ago. They are not new to me. You failed even to baffle me with your accusations. Create something more hineous, hideous, and so bizzare that even me, a teacher of students ranging from 7 years old to 55 years old, well 58 years old now, since my government is increasing the pension age of civil servants. Yeah, I am teacher, a course trainer, a facilitator, a disipliner , whatever related to education, even diplomas and first degree students. There u have it. That's why I'm not easily impressed with your stupid jokes or ridicules. But being a part Banjarese, I am easily intimidated. It must be the warrior blood or something. Boiling to get my hands on cowardly baby killers and stupid liars thinking that he could fools anyone anybody anywhere all the time.

30 July 2009 at 16:12  
Blogger srizals said...

Can't u guess now Jim Bartlet what am I teaching?
Well unlike in the west, the teachers of the land of the Malays are multi talented.
Not so smart now are we??

30 July 2009 at 16:14  
Blogger srizals said...

Its Friday night, so cheers guys, talk with u guys later. Gotta go,
Oh, go grab Halo by Beyonce, real good songs from Ex Muslims, the descendats of Muslim african slaves of the white Christians.
Well, there is a debate going on at Danielpipes whether Obama was an Ex Muslims or still is a Muslim n so on.
Interesting song though. See ya.

30 July 2009 at 16:17  
Blogger srizals said...

Last but not least, I'm a bogia n Malaysian scorpions catcher n collector n admirer of nature. No, I'm not a Darwinist. I'm in love with their Creator. The beauty of His creation reminds me of Him. All the time...Can't wait to go back home and see Him, The Lord of the worlds.
Mind the spelling, in a hurry bye.

30 July 2009 at 16:32  
Anonymous len said...

srizals,
regarding eating pork,Perhaps the best known passage is Acts 10:9-16, in which a huge sheet full of unclean animals is lowered from heaven, and a voice says, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." However, without hesitation Peter replies, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean" (verse 14). The Voice then responds, "What God has cleansed you must not call common" (verse 15)

The Trinity,Christians believe that there is one God who exists in three Persons. This can be a difficult concept to understand, but it can be proven from the Bible.

We can demonstrate from both the Old and New Testaments that there is only one God:

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:5-6)

""The most important [commandment]," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."" (Mark 12:29)

"So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one." (1 Corinthians 8:4)

"A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one." (Galatians 3:20)

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

"I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time-- God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

So the Bible clearly says that there is only one God.

30 July 2009 at 18:39  
Blogger srizals said...

Ok, but how about my three questions and Maria questions?
thanx Len, you are not a foolishman that called himself by a blogger name Englishman. I hope he's not around coz I don't think he's goin to let me off the hook and without any hesitation would kick my butt. Yes, I've been to your blogs, some I admire, some I loathe on, well, don't blame me. I'm just an average Muslims. I'll try to keep my eyes open n Len plz be quick before slumber gets me. TQ By the way what did u do 4 a living?

30 July 2009 at 18:50  
Anonymous len said...

Srizels
I cannot understand maria`s question.
I am a panel- beater, I repair damaged cars.

30 July 2009 at 19:02  
Anonymous len said...

Srizels,
Much of what has been done in the name of 'Christianity' has nothing to do with with the teachings of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ was non-violent.
I saw a programme on the crusades recently, and agree with you that Saladin behaved better towards his captives than the 'christians'.
Do not make the assumption that 'The West' is Christian because only a very small percentage are true followers of Jesus Christ.

30 July 2009 at 19:20  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Maria: Jesus Christ is not just a man! He never was just a prophet. Jesus Christ - even the Koran teaches that!- has not a human Father! That is why he is the Son of God! THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!

Jesus Christ has created all things! He is the Creator, He is God!

Let me briefly quote from the Gospel (Injil) John 1: 1-13

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. ... 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 (This makes clear it is talking about Jesus Christ) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God did not 'save Jesus Christ from crucifixion' as islam teaches, for if He had done that, we would have no hope of salvation!

But because Jesus Christ, as a perfect sinless Lamb of God, died to pay the penalty for our sins, we can be free from that punishment as He already payed it, by accepting Jesus Christ as our Saviour!

I know Islam rejects this, and so Isa is not Jesus Christ, and the muslims can not receive Jesus Christ as Saviour, and are lost for ever!

Unless and until they allow Jesus Christ to save them by accepting Him as Son of God and Savior, and God!

30 July 2009 at 22:35  
Blogger srizals said...

Len, at least we can agree on one thing, what you have said my cousin, is true. You understand my questions right? So please dear cousin, answer them on the behalf of the Christians.
Dutchlionfrens1953, I will explain to u events that happened after doomsday. U r so interested on salavation right. I will explain it for u after this. It's 6.30 a.m. in this blessed lands of the Malay and we are sharing it with our brothers from Indonesia, the Indians and the Chinese. Well, can't complain much though like u guys eh?

30 July 2009 at 23:27  
Blogger srizals said...

R u really a preacher? preacher?
R u really that dullard Jimmy?

Maria, my sister could you plz rephrase your questions so that they can understand u. Well, the Australian English, New Zelander, USA, UK, etc. etc. are quite different from one another.

30 July 2009 at 23:50  
Blogger srizals said...

Well, their history and conducts do influence on their ways of thinking, USA, Ex Masters of Muslim African slaves n ruled by the Zionist, Terminator of the Braves of the Red Indian and their buffaloes, Nukers of the Japanese. Slayers of the Vietnemese villagers. Australian, laughing like the sounds of the thunder, bad sense of humour, love to sneak on others' business n act like they were more above the Asians, tamer of the Aboriginies, Masters in the lands not of their own, Outcast of the Great Britain. Well, at least they have one thing in common with the 'mighty' American whites. New Zealander, ermm..I can't find anything bad about u guys...yet. Hope I would never find one. So like the Kiwis, I can say you are different from the snobbish thunderous laughing Australian.
I still can't forget a chap that I met, his laughter, n the way he poke his nose on local issues, n of course his bad sense of humour. Well, not all of them, some are just the average Joe like me, n yes I like these Australians. What? Do u think I'm like u? Master of the most simple Scientific thinking skills - Making Generalisations and that is all to it?
Simplistic mind won't get u anywhere but to pit of troubles, trust me.

31 July 2009 at 00:16  
Blogger Maria said...

dutchlionfrans1953,

The Word of God is not meant a separate and distinct substance, coeval and coexistent with God Almighty “Allah” but an expression and proclamation of His Knowledge and Will when He uttered the word “Be and it is”.

When God said the word “Be” for the first time, the world became. When He pronounced the word “Be” to the first man, Adam, Adam was created. In the same way, when He said the word “Be”, Jesus was created in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary; and so on – whenever Allah (s.w.t.) wills to create, His order “Be” is sufficient.

31 July 2009 at 02:14  
Blogger Maria said...

dutchlionfrans1953,

In the Qur'an, God Almighty "Allah" (s.w.t.) addresses Jesus ('Isa in arabic) as son of Mary, not son of God.

Jesus (a.s.), son of Mary, is compared to that of Adam (a.s.), the first man and the first prophet who was created without mother and without father in Qur'an Surah 3:58 which states:

"The similitude of Jesus, son of Mary, before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be": and he was."

31 July 2009 at 02:23  
Blogger Maria said...

dutchlionfrans1953,

Your reasoning is that Jesus as son of God created All things. Thus, He is the Creator.

Who created Jesus Christ (a.s), son of Mary, before Jesus Christ (a.s.) became son of God?

That same Creator who created Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, created the whole universe, mankind, angels, moon, sun, seas, day and night, the seasons, everything that we see and cannot see.

The Word of God is only an expression and proclamation of His knowledge and will. As Creator, God Almighty only says "BE AND IT IS".

31 July 2009 at 02:33  
Blogger Maria said...

dutchlionfrans1953,

Everything in life has purpose. The same is true with ALL Creations of God. God created ALL CREATIONS with a Purpose - - TO ACKNOWLEDGE, RECOGNIZE, WORSHIP GOD ALONE, nobody else and nothing else. This is the same to all - - the universe, human beings,angels, moon, sun, seas, rocks, plants, and other beings that we see or cannot see. Even all parts of our body are created with the same purpose, to worship Him Alone. Therefore, all creations of God function under the Will and Commands of God Almighty "Allah" (s.w.t.)

The difference between human beings and other creations of Allah (s.w.t.) is that human beings have the choice to accept or reject the Commands of Allah (s.w.t.) while other creations don't have the choice - - they just obey without question, they worship Allah (s.w.t.) every second of the day and night.

Consequently, since other created beings don't have the choice but just obey without question the Commands of Allah (s.w.t.), they don't have heaven and hell. While human beings have the choice to accept or reject the Commands of God, we have, therefore, heaven and hell. Heaven is for those who follow the Commands of God and Hell is for those who don't follow the commands of God.

Now, this is where salvation comes. In Christianity, salvation comes with the acceptance of Jesus Christ as son of God, Lord and Saviour. Through his flesh and blood, that a christian is saved and will live life forever in heaven. A christian, therefore, is not accountable for his own actions, deeds and sins because after all, Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, is responsible on what a christian does or did during his/her lifetime.

In Islam, each one is accountable to his/her own actions. Salvation comes with the belief in the One and Only True God and following the Commands of Allah - - the Lawful (Do’s) and Unlawful (Do Not’s) Actions that God had injuncted to Mankind. As well as, doing the activities that are intended to please Him like when Muslims say: Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir-Rahim (In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful) before doing something, and other related activities.

When a muslim does an unlawful action or action that Allah commanded "Do not do" like killing, stealing, backbiting, etc..., he will be punished in hell. The punishment in hell is more severe than punishment here on earth.

A muslim is punished first for all actions, deeds and sins that Allah (s.w.t) commanded the people "DO NOT DO" before he can go to heaven. Compare this to christian's salvation, a christian is not punished for any sins that he/she does because Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, redeems that sin. A christian will live in heaven forever right away without punishment.

Having said all those, since All Creations are created to worship God alone, nobody else and nothing else, the greatest evil in the sight of God Almighty, is therefore THE WORSHIP OF CREATION. The Worship Of Creation is an unpardonable crime in the sight of God and the punishment is Hell forever.

31 July 2009 at 03:57  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

Is my english difficult to understand? Anyway, here's my question again.

Jesus (a.s.), son of Mary, said: "Worship Me. I am the son of God, Your Lord and Saviour"

Who is the prophet of God in the New Testament who said that?

31 July 2009 at 04:09  
Blogger Maria said...

liberator,

What's the faith of a mormon? Is the mormon not the same with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

I heard about them when I was in high school 25 years ago. They also have Jesus Christ as son of God, Your Lord and Saviour. Mormons are Christians, too. Even Jehovah Witnesses have Jesus Christ as son of God, a divine created being.

Only muslims don't Worship A Creation because this is the greatest evil in the sight of God. If there are muslims who call & pray to dead saints, this is against the teachings of Islam. What can a dead person, stones and idols, and all created beings do? This is the reason God Almighty kept sending and chosing prophets and messengers.

All prophets and messengers had the same message - TO WORSHIP GOD ALONE, nobody else and nothing else. The first prophet, as well as the first man, was Adam (a.s.) and the last of all prophets was prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s).

Jesus (a.s), son of Mary, came before prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). Like all prophets before him, he taught and preached only TO WORSHIP GOD ALONE, nobody else and nothing else. If he became son of God, that was not his teachings.

Maybe, liberator, you are confused about angel Gabriel who brought the revelation from God Almighty Allah (s.w.t) to prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). That doesn't mean that the teachings of Mormons having angels as you said who brought the revelation to Smith is the same as the teachings of Islam.

The teachings of Islam is To Worship only God Alone, nobody else and nothing since the purpose God created ALL Creations is TO WORSHIP GOD ONLY, nobody else and nothing else. Our souls have acknowledge this before our human body is sent to earth so that on the Day of Resurrection or Judgement, we cannot deny that God Almighty ("ALLAH" in arabic) is God Alone. While on earth, human beings tend to forget that God because of our surroundings, we associate God with something that we see around us.

That is the reason God Almighty "Allah" kept chosing and sending prophets and messengers to guide us to the right path. Until the day of judgement, we will keep hearing about Islam so that we can't deny that we are not warned.

Don't confuse teachings of Islam just because of an angel in Mormons and angel Gabriel.

31 July 2009 at 05:00  
Blogger Maria said...

srizal,

Assalamu 'alaykum, brother.

Thanks for invitine me here. Look, how the reasoning of intelligent christians.

liberator is confused of the teachings of Islam because of an angel in mormon. When mormons are like them, christians.

len can not understand my english. This is my 4th time to ask the same question - - Who is the prophet in the new testament?

dutchlionfrans thought Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, is son of God because he was born without father. Take note, he became a Creator just because he was born without father.

Adam (a.s.) was created without mother and father, more than Jesus (a.s.),son of Mary, who was created only without father.

Allahu-Akbar! God is Great!

May All of them receive guidance, Ameen.

Waa salam,

Maria

31 July 2009 at 05:53  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

Pardon me for posting the same post again. I think the one I posted before this did not come up.

Jesus Christ said: "Worship me. I am son of God, Your Lord and Saviour."

Who is the prophet in the New Testament who said that?

Thanks,

Maria

31 July 2009 at 07:07  
Blogger srizals said...

Maria my sister, salam and may all the blessings of life is upon you. Be patience my sister. I know it's tiring 2 repeat again n again of the same thing to the unbelievers. But endure it my sister. For good and truth will always prevail. I need your gentleness in this Worldwide Web.
As for the guys at faithfreedom, Well don't deserve my mercy. They are heartless baby killers Zionist Atheist Americans. Things will get ugly. I hope u can forgive me sister. They are like cattles. There is a saying in Malay, Call bad things to people and it would only return to u.
I hope you don't have to be there sister. I will try to restrain myself my sister. But these defiant of Allah and the truth has a thick skin. Like what Allah says in Al Quran.

With permission your grace.

The Cow, Al Baqarah. Second verse of Al Quran.

[2:30]
(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a deputy on the earth!” They said, “Will You create there one who will spread disorder on the earth and cause bloodshed, while we proclaim Your purity, along with your praise, and sanctify Your name?” He said, “Certainly, I know what you know not.”

[2:31]
And He taught ’Ādam the names, all of them; then presented them before the angels, and said, “Tell me their names, if you are right.”

[2:32]
They said, “To You belongs all purity! We have no knowledge except what You have given us. Surely, You alone are the All-knowing, All-wise.”

[2:33]
He said, “O ’Ādam, tell them the names of all these.” When he told them their names, Allah said, “Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the skies and of the earth, and that I know what you disclose and what you conceal.

[2:34]
And when We said to the angels: “Prostrate yourselves before ’Ādam!” So, they prostrated themselves, all but Iblīs (Satan). He refused, and became one of the infidels.

[2:35]
And We said, “O ’Ādam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise; and eat at pleasure wherever you like, but do not go near this tree, otherwise you will be (counted) among the transgressors.”

[2:36]
Then, Satan caused them to slip from it, and brought them out of where they had been. And We said, “Go down, all of you, some of you the enemies of others; and on the earth there will be for you a dwelling place and enjoyment for a time.”

31 July 2009 at 07:56  
Blogger srizals said...

[2:37]
Then ’Ādam learned certain words (to pray with) from his Lord; so, Allah accepted his repentance. No doubt, He is the Most-Relenting, the Very-Merciful.

[2:38]
We said, “Go down from here, all of you. Then, should some guidance come to you from Me, those who follow My guidance shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[2:39]
As for those who disbelieve, and deny Our signs, they are the people of the Fire. They shall dwell in it forever.”

[2:40]
O Children of Isrā’īl (the Israelites), remember My blessing that I conferred upon you, and fulfill the covenant with Me, and I shall fulfill your covenant, and have awe of Me alone.

[2:41]
And have faith in what I have revealed, confirming what is already with you, and do not be the first to deny it, nor take a paltry price for My verses. Fear Me alone.

[2:42]
and do not confound truth with falsehood, and do not hide the truth when you know (it).

[2:43]
And be steadfast in Salāh (prayer), and pay Zakāh (tithe), and bow down with those who bow down.

[2:44]
Do you enjoin righteousness upon others while you ignore your own selves, although you keep reciting the Book? Have you then no sense?

Please my sister endure them. Like the palestinians that had endured much, much more misery and mockery compared to us. I even wish that I was there to die with them. For all the oppressed Muslims that being treated like pigs throughout the world, I will fight on. You see my sister, this is my Jihad for now. I'm waiting for the call for Jihad by Muslim Nations. There been increasing threats of nuking the Muslim Nations n also Mecca for no reason n we are not even nuclear powers, except for Pakistan of course. But no one dared to threaten to nuke it.
Know this dear readers. There is no unifier able enough to unite the Muslims, for now. Do something stupid. N all the Braves of various Ethnicities and capabilities of Muslims will descend of the nukers n pray that they could distinguish from the oppressors and the innocents Christians, Jews, n atheists.
sadly, that day will come. Everyone is starting to choose side. Which side are you on?
But don't worry we have our teacher teachings in every of our conducts. Even in the middle of the madness of a war.

31 July 2009 at 07:57  
Blogger srizals said...

descend 'on' not 'of' the nukers. My baby boys are disturbing me again, I gotta go on grasshoppers hunting with them now. I'm not in a habit to correct my typo error, theGlovner won't have a problem reading past them. He's an atheist, Of course. He's smarter that Jim Bartlet or the butler, hell, I don't know. Bye.

31 July 2009 at 08:05  
Blogger srizals said...

Your grace, may I, another one Dutchmen:

[2:74]
When, even after that, your hearts were hardened, as if they were rocks, or still worse in hardness. For surely among the rocks there are some from which rivers gush forth, and there are others that crack open and water flows from them, and there are still others that fall down in fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

[2:75]
(O Muslims) do you still fancy that they will believe you, although a group of them used to hear the word of Allah, and then, having understood it, used to distort it knowingly?

[2:76]
When they meet those who believe, they say, “We believe.” But when some of them meet others in private, they say, “Do you tell them (the Muslims) what Allah has disclosed to you so that they may thereby argue against you before your Lord? Will you, then, not use reason?”

[2:77]
Are they not aware that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?

[2:78]
And some among them are illiterate who have no knowledge of the Book, but have some fancies and do nothing but conjecture.

[2:79]
So, woe to those who write the Book with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah”, so that they may gain thereby a trifling price. Then, woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.

[2:80]
They say, “The fire shall not touch us for more than a few days.” Say, “Have you taken a pledge from Allah, and Allah will not go against His promise? Or, do you say about Allah what you do not know?”

[2:81]
Why not? Those who commit evil and are besieged by their sins, those are people of the Fire - there they shall live forever.

[2:82]
As for those who believe, and do good deeds, they are the people of Paradise - there they will live forever.

31 July 2009 at 10:44  
Blogger srizals said...

[2:83]
(Remember) when We took a pledge from the children of Isrā’īl (Israel): “You shall not worship anyone other than Allah; and you shall do good to the parents, and to near of kin, and to orphans and the needy. And say to the people what is good, and be steadfast in Salāh (prayer), and pay Zakāh .” Then, you went back (on your word), all but a few among you, and you are used to turning away.

[2:84]
When We took a pledge from you: “You shall not shed the blood of one another, and you shall not drive one another out of your homes.” Then you agreed, being yourselves the witnesses.

[2:85]
Yet, here you are, killing one another, and driving a group of your own people out of their homes, supporting each other against them in sin and aggression - and if they come to you as prisoners, you would ransom them, while their very expulsion was unlawful for you! Do you, then, believe in some parts of the Book, and disbelieve in others? So, what can be the punishment of those among you who do that, except disgrace in present life? And, on the Day of Judgement, they shall be turned to the most severe punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

[2:86]
Those are the ones who bought the worldly life at the cost of the Hereafter. So, punishment shall not be lightened for them, nor shall they be helped.

[2:87]
Indeed, We gave Mūsā the Book, and after him We sent messengers, one following the other; and We gave clear signs to ‘Īsā, the son of Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary), and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Then, how is it that every time a prophet came to you with what does not meet your desires, you grew arrogant? So, you gave the lie to a group (of the messengers) and killed others.

[2:88]
And they said, “Our hearts are veiled.” Rather, Allah has cast damnation upon them for their disbelief. So, they believe just in very little things

[2:89]
And when there came to them a Book from Allah, which confirms what was with them,- while earlier, they used to seek help against those who disbelieved, - yet when there came to them that which they did recognize, they denied it. So the curse of Allah is upon the disbelievers.

[2:90]
Vile is that for which they have sold out their selves: that they should deny what Allah has revealed, grudging that Allah should send down some of His bounty to whomsoever He wills from among His servants. So, they came out with wrath upon wrath. And for the unbelievers, there is humiliating punishment.

31 July 2009 at 10:47  
Blogger srizals said...

Come on guys, do u still believe this is a twisted verse created by a copy cat inspired by the devil himself.
I'm not dodging ur questions on contract marriage. I'm just letting our readers to dig it 4 themselves first. I knew it well, let say, since the beginning of time of course. When I started to use my brain logically of course, theGlovner.

31 July 2009 at 10:50  
Anonymous Liberator said...

Maria.
No I am not confused, I merely use the analogy of the Mormons as an example, If they said that the Quran was corrupted because their 'Prophet' Joseph Smith was 500 years later than Muhammed and had an 'Angel' reveal to him a different gospel, so yours was wrong would you believe him? I think not! yet that is the position that you present to us Christians despite the fact that Muhammed never said that either the Torah or the Injil was in error.
While I admire your sincerity and commitment and of course Srizels I write only out of concern for your salvation, I don't look to win a debate or argument as I feel that so many 'victories' are hollow shams and merely puff up the 'victor' with pride. God bless you and Srizels, I hope the Kids are behaving themselves Srizels.

31 July 2009 at 11:06  
Blogger srizals said...

Oh yes, I'm used to u guys twisting Al Quran by misquoting it out of context n the reasons behind it being revealed, like the ones in faithfreedom, quoting the verses separated from one another, cut off, without interpretations by Prophet Muhammad and the scholars of Islam, according to the time, the reason, situation or the dire needs behind their revelations.

But never mind. I'm used to it. The US girls at faithfreedom think I'm some kind of joke or something. But so do u guys. Well, I'm a Malay. I have this supernatural abilities of letting the curses and ridicules past from my right ears past through my left ears., without even bruising my heart, even though not most of the time, I'm human c? Husbands know what I'm talking about. U, Preacher..erm..will never ever know the wonderful blessed life of being a man.

31 July 2009 at 11:27  
Blogger srizals said...

Dear Liberator,

This is not a debate. N I'm not trying to be a winner here. I'm just defending my faith from ridicules. N if u look in this blog n many2 more, u get my motive.

My faith is being attacked viciously by zionist, atheist, freethinker, Darwinist, USA porn worshipers, u named it, n sadly even from u guys, our cousin. Why don't u just let us in peace. U r not in my blog condemning ur faith or faith of others as a matter a fact. Even the faith of those who believe in nothing, but money, pun, porn, powerr, n admiration from mere humans.

I prefer discussions than debates. I don't like to win. I'm not a Chauvinistic Kiasu Chinese like in my homeland or in Singapore, that seems never had enough. But I do like u guys to stop your accusations n belittling Islam or Muslims n guys, u will see the last of me from this blog. Its that simple. But I do like to hang out with u guys. It give my brain the much exercise it needs. Thanks.
As for faith concerns, it is not up to me. It is not my say. As I've posted some quotes from Al Quran.
U sir, the choice is not in my hand. I have no power over u.

31 July 2009 at 11:39  
Anonymous len said...

Maria,
I cannot answer your question as it makes mo sense!
Give me the scripture you are quoting!
Or are you quoting a tale from the Koran? give me the sura.

31 July 2009 at 20:01  
Anonymous len said...

I have been looking
on the net and can see why there is so much confusion.

ISLAM HAVE CREATED THEIR OWN VERSION OF 'JESUS'
Islamic 'jesus 'was created and not eternal,
Islamic jesus is not the lamb of God who was slain,
Islamic 'Jesus'( was supposed) to have prophesied the coming of mohammed,
Islam says the only way to salvation is found in the five pillars of wisdom,
Islamic 'jesus' was never crucified
Etc, etc,
THE ISLAMIC 'jesus' IS NOT JESUS CHRIST AT ALL!

31 July 2009 at 20:33  
Anonymous len said...

Muslim Isa vs the Biblical Jesus ,
(You Tube) makes some interesting comparisons.

31 July 2009 at 20:55  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Ien: The mother of the Islamic Isa is Mirjam, the sister of Moses! How historically confused you can get. But for muslims who do not have any truth, historical and otherwise, to measure by, any lie is accepted for truth.

And when Mohammed was confronted with the fact that he was telling stories, tales, yeah fairytales... going around in biblically unsound sects (the story of Jesus as a boy making clay-pigeons and the making them alive by clapping in His hands... can easily be traced back to one Apocryphocal Gospel) he said, oh, but my words are true words of Allah (which says enough about who Allah is: the devil!) and YOU have changed the Gospel...

NOW I pronounce, as a prophet of God to all nations, in Jesus' Name: WOE, WOE, WOE to all those translators of the Koran, Hadith, and other islamic books, newsreports and other islamic expressions, into Dutch, English and other languages, in the news, films, reports, books, etc. etc. wrongly translating Allah with God, Mirjam with Maria etc. etc. "'trying' to make the gap between muslims and Christians smaller by translating" (as Leemhuis, translator of a Dutch version of the Koran wrote in his response to my remarks in the Dutch daily newspaper Nederlands Dagblad) it in such a way that the readers who are not familiar with the origin are in fact presented with a LIE and being taught a lie! DELIBERATELY, for the motive to translate Allah deliberatly as God, is NOT a grammatical but a political and religious one! WOE, Woe, Woe to you all! God will demand the blood of all those who by your doings end in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone! He will surely revenge!

31 July 2009 at 21:25  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@srizals said... "Oh yes, I'm used to u guys twisting Al Quran by misquoting it out of context."

Who are you trying to fool with such remarks that adds to your quiver full of arrows of accusations of all evils of anything outside islam and of everybody not muslim?!

If you do not know that the Koran has NO context, and that it is arranged by length of Suras, instead of chronologically, why would anyone take any of your arguements, which you vomit unceasingly all over this section, seriously? Why would anyone pay attention to you? YOU should sit back as a good student and learn from people like me, and do your homework, using the links I have provided! You may - by God's grace, if you seek the truth with an upright heart, which you did not show evidence of - be allowed to see the Light!

Start by watching the testimonies of ex-muslims - click here: Former Muslims Who Embraced Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour

And they certainly are not all uneducated muslims. On the contrary! Click here: Muslim Clerics leave Islam and Embrace Christ

31 July 2009 at 21:41  
Blogger srizals said...

Muslim Clerics, of what? Khawarij, Muktazilite? Syiah? Deviated cult of Muslim? Smart but stupid Muslims? The terrorist? But thanks 4 the link, I'll check it out as always. Dutch. I'm not like u. I read and listen 2 these confessions with an open mind. Can u do the same? I'll provide u the links of stories why Rabbi, men of churches, highly educated atheist is turning to islam. Don't u read them with eyes wide shut now, Dutch.
5.15 am in the morning. N the still of the morning is calming as always. Alone with God. Do u have pre morning prayers Christians?
Geez, where's my answers Dutchman?

31 July 2009 at 22:19  
Blogger srizals said...

U better cross check ur facts be4 presenting it here Dutch. I'm quite embarrassed when I failed to detect the similarities of the Mormons n u guys. I'll be more careful next time. But my hectic lives didn't help much thou. But what ur excuse?

31 July 2009 at 22:23  
Blogger Maria said...

len, liberator, dutchlionfrans1953 and other christians,

len said, "Maria, I cannot answer your question as it makes no sense! Give me the scripture you are quoting!
Or are you quoting a tale from the Koran? give me the sura."

My question was: Who is the prophet of God in the New Testament who said that Jesus said: "Worship Me. I am the son of God, Your Lord and Saviour." I even reprased this question as:
Jesus Christ said: "Worship Me. I am the son of God, Your Lord and Saviour." Who is the prophet of God in the New Testament who said that?

Now, len can't answer because it doesn't make sense when my question is the Essense of the teachings of ALL CHRISTIANITY!
The first time I asked the same question to len, her answer was “The prophets in the Old Testament testify to the coming Lord Jesus Christ, there are many, prophesies which no- one but the Lord Jesus Christ could fulfill!.” Again, her answer comes from the Old Testament, when what I asked was from the New Testament. My question was so simple & understandable, Who is the prophet of God in the New Testament who taught all the teachings of Christianity, most specifically the Essence of Christianity that Jesus Christ (a.s.) said: “Worship Me. I am the son of God, Your Lord and Saviour”.

The truth of the matter is len and other Christians whom I asked that same question cannot answer because:

1. There is no prophet of God in the New Testament who taught all teachings of Christianity since Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, is the prophet and Messenger of God, but raised as a Son God or BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. and,

2. The main message of so many prophets in the Old Testament is TO WORSHIP THE ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. This is why the Old Testament is only about ONE GOD. If the Old Testament prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, this did not mean that Jesus Christ was to be worshipped as God but this means that like all prophets before him, he was sent to guide people TO WORSHIP THE ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.

And to quote len, "Or are you quoting a tale from the Koran? give me the sura." The Holy Qur’an Surah 5: 116 – 117 clearly confirms that Jesus Christ, son of Mary, was only commanded to tell people ‘TO WORSHIP GOD Alone, nobody else and nothing else:

“And (beware of) that Day ! When God will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides God?’” He will say, ‘Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what you commanded me – ‘to worship God, my Lord and your Lord…’”

Since there is no prophet of God in the New Testament, who taught then the teachings of Christianity to worship Jesus Christ (a.s.) as son of God, Your Lord and Saviour, all your sins are redeemed through the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (a.s), through the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (a.s.), you will have eternal salvation, etc..., etc... These teachings did not just come out of the blue, then, bingo, Christianity will give you life!

Have you ever wondered why Acts, Romans, Corinthians, all Paul’s Letters are included in the New Testament? This should give you an idea of who teach and preach Christianity

Continued on the next post...

1 August 2009 at 03:40  
Blogger Maria said...

To len, ducthlionfrans, liberator and other christians, this is continuation from 01 August 2009 03:40;

After Jesus Christ was gone, “the little Group of Apostles” formed a Jewish sect, headed by James, the younger brother of Jesus Christ. With James was Peter and later on John and Barnabas also joined in. James successor was Simeon, son of Cleopas, a cousin of Jesus Christ. They observed the “Law of Prophets, which Jesus had come, not to destroy but to fulfill” (Math. 5:17). They continued to live as Jews and practiced what Jesus had taught them. They were devout and practicing Jews and they were distinguished from their neighbors, only by their faith in the message of Jesus. The question of the origin of Jesus, his nature and relation to God, which later became so important, was not raised among these early disciples. That Jesus was a man supernaturally endowed by God was accepted without question. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view. According to Aristides, one of the earliest apologists, the worship of the early “Christians” was more purely monotheistic even than that of the Jews.

But with the arrival of Paul, a new period opened in Christian Theology. He appeared in the scene 14 years after the departure of Jesus Christ. Paul as a Messenger of Christianity that Jesus Christ did not teach and preach is in (First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians) or 1 Corinthians 9:1-2 that states:

Am I not a free man? Am I not an apostle? Haven’t I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren’t you the result of my work for the Lord? Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle.

Paul was not a prophet and messenger of God. He was also not a disciple of Jesus Christ (a.s), son of Mary. He was a jew and inhabitant of Tarsus. As Cardinal Danielou (the author of “A New Representation of the Origins of Christianity: Judeo Christianity) says that Paul had an access among the Jews who were living in far off lands across the Mediterranean sea in areas around Rome & Greece in the Roman Empire. The pagan people living in those areas were worshipping the Sun, the Moon, the Mars, the Venus and various other stars as their gods. In addition, they were also worshipping many other stone idols and deities. In order to win the confidence and faith of these people, Paul therefore had to compromise with their beliefs & legends. Paul said circumcision of males was not really necessary. This he said despite the fact that Jesus himself was circumcised on the 8th day after his birth. Gentiles were already celebrating Sunday as a holiday in honor of their god-the Sun. Paul replaced Saturday-the day of Sabbath of the Jews with Sunday to coincide with their holiday, which they were already observing. The gentiles used to observe 25th of December as the birthdate of their god-the Sun. Now, this date was adopted as the birth date of their new found god- the Jesus. Paul also rejected the Jewish form of worship, which was practiced in the Synagogues, i.e., the WORSHIP OF ONE TRUE GOD. Instead, Paul offered Jesus Christ as an alternate god. Paul raised the status of Jesus Christ from the Messenger of God to the “son of God”. Paul borrowed from pagans and gave the concept of “Trinity”, i.e., the three gods- the father, the son, and the holy ghost. Paul put forward the concept of a “begotten son of God”. But all of these were contrary to the preaching and teachings of Jesus Christ. There was therefore an opposition from Barnabas. Barnabas is mentioned in the ff. Verses of the Bible (Acts 4:36-37; 9:26-27; 11:22-30; 12:25; 13:1-4; 14:11-15; Paul’s Epistles to the Galatians 2:9). The rift is in Acts 15. In the Acts, Barnabas disappears after the rift.

1 August 2009 at 03:46  
Blogger Maria said...

len, dutchlionfrans, liberator & other christians,

The first call of Paul as a Messenger of Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, was through a dream as stated in Acts 26:14-16:

I heard a voice say to me in Hebrew, “Saul, Saul! Why are you persecuting me? You are hurting yourself by hitting back like an ox kicking against its owner’s stick. Who are you Lord? I asked. And the Lord answered, ‘I am Jesus, whom you persecute. But get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant. You are to tell others what you have seen of me today and what I will show you in the future.”

The Second Call of Paul as Messenger is in First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians or 1 Corinthians 3:10-11 that states:

"Using the gift that God gave me, I did the work of an expert builder and laid the foundation, and another man is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation and no other foundation can be laid."

The Final Call as stated in First Letter of Paul to Timothy or 1 Timothy 2:5-7:

"For there is one God, and there is one who brings God and mankind together, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself to redeem all mankind. That was the proof at the right time that God wants everyone to be saved, and that is why I was sent as an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles, to proclaim the message of faith and truth."

See, the founder of Christianity is St. Paul. The new testament is an evidence that Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary did not teach and preach Christianity. Do you want to lie your own holy book?

Now tell me dutchlionfrans1953, who is following a false prophet, why do you follow St. Paul who was never a prophet, never a Messenger of God, not even a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Now tell me, dutchlionfrans1953, who is Anti-Christ that your gospels warned you of? Why do muslims believe and respect Jesus Christ (a.s), son of Mary, as prophet and messenger of God if Muslims are Anti-Christ?

dutchlionfrans, there are many priest, preachers and missionaries of christianity who accepted Islam:

Delegation of Priests Accept Islam At The Height of Muslim Christian Dialogue

About Archbishop Martin John Mwaipopo Acceptance To Islam

Priests and Preachers Accepting Islam

British Catholic Priests Accept Islam

1 August 2009 at 04:11  
Blogger Maria said...

In the Name of Allah (The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful)

len, liberator, dutchlionfrans1953 and others,

Your own holy book is an evidence that it is changed. First, the Old Testament teaches ONE GOD as brought by all the prophets. Then, it became Three God - father, son and holy ghosts and these three is ONe. From whom?

From St. Paul who was never a prophet, never a messenger of God and not even a disciple of Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary.

Christians right away judge Muslims that Muslims are following a false prophet. Why do you follow St. Paul who was never a prophet, never a messenger of God, not even a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Christians right away judge Muslims that Muslims are following a false god, a pagan god? Why do you worship a false god, a prophet and messenger of God raised as BEGOTTEN SON of GOD by your prophet, St. Paul?

Christians right away judge Muslims that Muslims follow Allah, the demon(Astaghfirullah - forgive me Allah!). Christians who speak Arabic call God, Allah! Allah is the generic word for God in Arabic. Even the bible in arabic language has Allah as God.

With regards to the Qur'an, from the time the verses were revealed piece by piece for 23 years, whatever lies, twists, accusations and attack you want to make, it's still has the same message - TO WORSHIP THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD ALONE. The message of the qur'an as brought by angel Gabriel from God Almighty "Allah" to prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) cannot be compared with the Message of the angel of mormon brought to Smith because the message of mormons is TO WORSHIP A CREATION (i.e. Jesus Christ as son of God, Lord and Saviour).

You should not look in the eyes of your religion or the eyes of Jesus Christ as son of God. Rather, you should look in the eyes of God who created All Creations, who created Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, before Jesus Christ is raised as son of God by St. Paul. In the sight or eyes of GOD, the greatest evil is TO WORSHIP A CREATION because God created All Creation with one purpose - - To Worship God Alone, nobody else and nothing else.

God created Hell for those who do not follow His Commands.Who then will be rotten into hell and lost forever?

1. The pious, peaceful, good non-Muslims who call a creature as god, denies the religion of God who created him - an unpardonable crime in the sight of God, or

2. The bad Muslims who acknowledge the Creator as the One and Only God who has the right to be worshipped but committed a pardonable crime in the sight of God. Take note however that when a Muslim does a bad action he will be punished in Hell first before he can live in heaven forever. God Almighty "Allah" can however forgive easily if He wills, nobody can question that.


The choice is yours, as God says in the Qur’an: “There is no compulsion in religion….”

My final note is what liberator said and I quote, "there is no doubt or debate to be had". Therefore, my sisterly advice to all of you, seek the truth and pray to God whoever you believe God to be. If you pray to Jesus Christ or to Holy Ghost or to whoever, that's fine because after all, the One who answers your prayers is God Alone.

1 August 2009 at 06:59  
Anonymous len said...

Maria,
You are right in some aspects and totally wrong in others.
Christianity was corrupted when Constantine made Christianity the state religion, he added pagan religions to Christianity.He founded the universal church (catholicism)
Mohammed bought bible stories from the jews in arabia who treated mohammed with contempt by twisting the stories, and used them to construct the Koran.
The true church of Jesus Christ separated from the corrupted Church at the Reformation.

The Truth which is (Jesus Christ) is there but man has covered the Truth with many lies and deceptions.

The only way to know the Truth is to seek earnestly to know the Truth ,and ask Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to you.

Much of the world lies under the power, and under the deceptions of the evil one, I pray you discover the Truth.

God says you will find Him when you seek Him with all your heart and soul( Deuteronomy 4:29)

1 August 2009 at 08:23  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

I was a Roman Catholic Christian 11 years ago. All praise is due to God Almighty Allah, He made me go back to Islam - - the religion of God, the natural religion of all human beings. I do pray for you that you will find the same. God Almighty "Allah" (s.w.t.) says in Holy Qur’ān Al Nur (The Light) 24:40:

“(The Unbelievers’ state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light.”

Just ask God, if that's to Jesus Christ, do pray to open your heart, seek the truth and give you light for the guidance can only come through the grace of God for He is the Only One who knows what's in the deepest corners of our hearts.

Sincerely,

Maria

1 August 2009 at 09:39  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

You said "Mohammed bought bible stories from the jews in arabia who treated mohammed with contempt by twisting the stories, and used them to construct the Koran."

Len, those are the same accusation that priests and others during the time of prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). Remember, prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) was illiterate. How can he copy the Bible and construct the Qur'an when prophet Muhammad was illiterate? Also, the stories of the Qur'an about Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, about his birth, his mission, his disciples, his miracles, his crucifixion and his similitude of that of prophet Adam (a.s.) who was created without mother and without father are not the same as in the Bible , this is the reason that Christians have conflict with the Muslims belief.

Now, that you're own Bible is proven to have changed, an evidence that Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary, did not teach and preach but taught by St. Paul who was never a prophet, never a messenger of God, not even a disciple of Jesus Christ (a.s.), your'e saying that the Qur'an is copied from the Bible.

Anyway, len, as I've said before, just ask God, if that is to Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ, do so, to give you light and guidance for whatever study, learning and searching you will do, if guidance will not be given, all your seeking the truth will still be in vain since guidance can be acquired only through the grace of God.

Nice chatting with you.

Sincerely,

Maria

1 August 2009 at 10:09  
Anonymous Liberator said...

Maria and Srizals.
You constantly attack Paul, but you ignore the gospels and choose instead to believe the false ones like Barnabas. Paul lost out when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, he was persecuting what he considered a heretical sect of Judaism. His conversion took him out of a life of luxury to a life of want and persecution and later to martyrdom. This was no 'Dream'. You also overlook the book of Acts which was written by Luke, you presume to overlook the ressurection of Jesus Christ because you are taught that it could not be, the ressurection could not take place without Jesus' public death by crucifixion so you are taught that by some magic trick He was not crucified but someone else took His place. Do you honestly think that even a mere prophet would if he were honest stoop to such deception? and Jesus was much much more than just a prophet. Why would He prophesy that He would be killed and rise on the third day if He had planned so deceitful a trick? There is much more I could say but I feel that only the Lord Himself can restore the sight to your blind eyes, and my prayer for you both is that He will do so. May the true God Love and bless you both with His presence. Liberator

1 August 2009 at 11:49  
Anonymous len said...

Maria,
I pray that you come to a knowledge of the Truth.
The 'jesus'of the Koran is not the true Jesus Christ of the scriptures.
I also believe the 'jesus' worshipped by the catholic church is not the true jesus.
If you are sincerely looking for the truth as to who Jesus really is the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth ,also there is a website entitled YADA YAHWEH which may help,
May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you in your search.

1 August 2009 at 14:37  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Maria - we are discussing this though totally off tpopic...except... that our dhimmy governments and such would act hastily against any expression against the Koran (though the Koran commands all of us to be murdered! How dumm nay, worse, how arrogantly unteachable fools our governments, media, churchleaders are! For which the wrath of God has to be manifested over them, for God did not allow me to manifest it, or they would have felt and seen my hand against them already!) and even defend the 'freedom of expression' against all sacred things of God! As long as God is not Allah...for if it was Allah's book, these devils would rise up ... Well...they show they all serve the same devil! One has no name, the other is called allah!

You, and the other vomiter of islamic stuff here, as most muslims, show only a one way communication. Never do you consider any arguement.

1: The Quran/ Koran is NOT a copy of the 'original' Injil!
2: Allah is NOT God!
3: Isa is NOT Jesus Christ!
4: Mirjam is NOT the mother of Jesus Christ but Mary!
5- 275? or more... Islam is NOT of God! Islam is anti-christ! (1 John 2:22,23)


Your islamic concept of prophet and the Christian concept of it, are different.

The islamic concept of 'rasul' and of a 'sent one' meaning 'apostle' are different.

Christianity has it's foundation in Christ, the Resurrected One! God Who came in the flesh! Was born of a human mother and God Himself: Divine Seed!

Christianity is not rooted in Paul. Apostle Paul (and one of the requirements of apostlehood is having seen the Lord! As Mohammed never saw the Lord Jesus Christ, he is no apostle of God!) qualifies as apostle. He was sent to the heathen. That is why he rejected the attempts of Jewish 'christians' to force the heathen Christians to circumcise. Baptish is this circumcision of the heart! That goes deeper than just a circumcision of a body-part!

This is not the place to give a whole Bible-study. But the Law came first, that sin might be made known! The Law could not and still can not change people's hearts. This is the same for Jews, as it is for muslims.

Like Judaïsm, Islam is a religion of laws. If the laws have been obeyed, one is safe. No ground for punishment. However, because no one can fulfill the law, all muslims and Jews are lost! Except and until they reckogize that Jezus Christ payed the penalty for our sins, including theirs!

That is the Good News, or in other words: the Gospel!

Apostle Paul wrote much to bring direction, instruction and correction to the churches: He never had a New Testament! He based it all on the Old Testament, and on revelation of Jesus Christ!

Maria, muslims do NOT respect Jesus Christ at all! They deny Him, and have replaced Him with one made to look like Him, the usurper Isa!

Sure enough, muslims do not blaspheme Jesus Christ as the Jews do in their sacred book, the Talmud, which is in violation of the revealed Word of God! That is why Jesus Christ condamned the Talmud so strongly!

1 August 2009 at 14:43  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

As far as many priests etc. accepting islam...that may be true, but often is just propaganda. Most people who 'convert' to islam fall back quickly! The increase of muslims is 99,99% by natural birth in a muslim family, not converts!

This is far far different from ex-muslims who found Jeus Christ! They know that the price of turning away from islam is death. Yet, they are wholeheartedly prepared to face death, in the light of what they have experienced and experience in Christ Jesus, the living Lord! One who has passed from darkness into Light, from death, anxiety, insecurity to Christ's LIFE, PEACE, fellowship and walk, will not want to go back to what he left!

You, Maria and S. and other muslims have never experienced this - and therefore all your talk is just that: TALK, THEORY from your concept!

I have spent my time trying to show the right way. God also loves you! He does not want you to be deceived any longer by Islam, but come to the saving knowledge of Him! YOU insult(ed) us left and right! We keep calm and despite your attitudes, have taken time FOR YOUR SAKES!

It's enough. I have pointed you the way. Choose ye this day!

Frans

1 August 2009 at 14:46  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

Maria: One final thing for you to ponder - apart from reading that you do not pay attention to what others like me have written here. I have explained that the word Allah does NOT MEAN GOD, but 'the-god!' The Arabic word for god or is 'ilah' not Allah! I will not repeat it, just go back over the comments and links here ( you just keep on ignoring what I have written and repeat the lies as if I had not written anything (why should I waste my time with the likes of you any more?): The concept of ABROGATION!

The fact that 'allah' abrogated verses of the Koran and replaced them with 'similar verses but better.'

This concept totally destroys the claim that Allah is all-knowing! Allah is NOT all-knowing! For if Allah was all-knowing, He would be God and like God, he would not need to reveal verses and declare them eternal... but later change his mind and change / abrogate the earlier given verses and replace them with new verses.

Any Westerner trained in logical thinking throws out islam and the Koran when he finds out this absurd concept! But you, Maria choose to be blinded by the devil!

One abrogation is the changing of the qiblah, the direction of the salaat, which was first done towards Jerusalem. But after the Jews rejected Mohammedd, the qiblah was changed toward Mecca.

I will not go to google and look for links for you about abrogation. You can do your homework yourself.

To get your started, let me give you two: Contradictions in the Qur'an

AHMAD, ALLAH, AND ABROGATION

1 August 2009 at 15:15  
Blogger srizals said...

Oh, guys, this is hilarious, my comment was deleted 4 abusive language by the moderators of faithfreedom.org. Not so free now are we. N, the abusive language? For calling someone that beens calling God, Muhammad, Islam n Muslims n of course especially me as a retard. Well, most of the hideous remarks on us n God were not even moderated, but...than again...I don't have a freedom at faithfreedom.org after all. U see, my offensive language is when I said if I would have wanted to debate with quotations, I would have debated with Ali Sina n I said we, Muslims don't want u n just be atheist, n it was very offensive 4 him. Mr. Dullard eh? He's been dehumanizing my love, the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. all this while n trying to shame us Muslims, well, like almost since he left Islam n yet...hmmmm...I gotta copy all my comments b4 all of them are deleted by him, the saviour of the truth. Nah, you don't wanna 2 go there. Its ugly. I'm not in this mode like I'm talking 2 u guys in here. I dealt with US arrogant SOB n of course Bs..I won't go there if I were u....Geez...I should have save that comment n repost it here as a comment of abusive language deleted by moderators of faithFREEDOM.org, they do have beautiful storks flying banner afterall. Hmmm...maybe those guys are storks anyway...
Cranmer I'm voting 4 u. The guys at faithfreedom.org n danielpipes.org r making me hard n dizzy 2 post my comments, but they 4got, I'm a holy warrior of Allah. I'm blessed with this brainwave of 10.98 alpha all the time. Lucky me, Alhamdulillah.

Anyway, what's your brainwave dutch?
4.32 a.m. in the morning, n the frogs r really singing n guys b4 I forgot.
La Hot springs was really remarkable n mind recharging. Do u know what I found most interesting there?

I tried to look 4 its sources, the spring I mean, n do u know what I've found? A gushing of hot water coming out from several opening from cracks of solid mineralite stones. Subhanallah! Read the verses of Al Quran that I've posted 4 u guys, that Allah mentioned 2 us, His parable of our heart with stone. I'm not re-posting it. But I don't think Muhammad can imagine what I saw in the desert he dwelled in because u see, he lived in a desert, n yes, the spring of zam zam came gushing out not from rock like in Malaysia, sorry, in the lands of the Malay. N I don't think the Nasrani nor the Secretive Rabbi told him about it...er..because they don't know about it too some 1,400 years ago.
Now do u understand why I'm doing this preacher? I tried to photographed the springs but my camera ran out of batteries. I will go back there, Insya Allah, n re-post it in my blog to prove 2 u guys I'm not cookin a lie like Ali Sina, A deluded Syiah Muslim that had thought all Muslims were like Syiah. Well, he was dead wrong. He forgot about us, The follower of the ways of Muhammad, The Union of Muslims. As Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. The mainstream Muslims. The sane Muslims. The Moderate Muslims, True followers of the beloved n wise n gentle Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. which he had used abusive language everywhere in his postings n of course went on unpunished, till a bunch of lowly Muslims, stumbled upon his lies. Hmm...this is going 2 be 2 easy 4 me. These Atheist r_not that smart after all.
Don't delete my comments again, schmucks. I would only re-post it again n again in all parts of the world. I did mention is as a warning 4 the moderators, let see if they dare 2 post it. Funny guys.

1 August 2009 at 21:48  
Blogger srizals said...

Anyhow, how's u doin in Atheist that's claiming they r goin to rebunk u guys?
rebunkingchristianity.blogspot.com?

The link were even changed by those moderators. All the links that's trying to cook up lies towards Allah n Islam would of course go 'unpunished'. Shame on those guys. They only pissed me off. N only strengthen my resolves.

1 August 2009 at 21:53  
Blogger srizals said...

Dutch, Dutch, you kept on helping us my friend. Thank u for highlighting the meaning of the word Allah, The God or God. Not Judaism, Not Buddhist, Not Hindus. Not Atheist. Not Darwinist. The meaning of the word Allah itself, is 'The God' The one n only. Now do u know why Allah had chosen Arabic as a language of Al Quran n as a uniting language for Muslims, be it Uighurs, Hui, Thais, Moro, Africans, Malays, Europeans, Indians, Eskimos, etc. etc.
Thank u again Dutch!
You haven't answered me Dutch,

Is it true that By asking, ones will learn is a Dutch proverbs?
Thanks again man, from the bottom of my heart. Thanks 4 the great links 2. They enriched me. N streghten my resolves as always.

Amin Ya Rabbbal 'alamin. Grant me O Lord of the Worlds.

1 August 2009 at 22:35  
Blogger srizals said...

Some Jews even changed Muhammadim as something else n misquoted their own Torah to err... debunkingIslam but then again, they were helping us too unknowingly.

I bow down to You and only. My Lord, My Sustainer. My Cherisher. My Help. My Guide. Thank you Allah for showing me the way to these blogs n answered my prayers. Truly Your wisdom is unquestioned. Pardoned me from all my transgressions n have mercy on me, a sinner n a fool. If it weren't for You, O my Lord, I would be lost just like the Atheist n the rest of the truth seekers that end up worshiping your creations. Don't endowed on them Your wrath that would surely affect those Muslims that think of You all the time n their tongues r wet with Zikrullah in remembrance of You.
Grant me O Lord of the Worlds. Grant me paradise n protect me from Your Wrath n the damnation of the eternal fire that would burn n burn deep into the hearts of your enemies. Blessed me your mercy O my Lord.
Amin, Amin Ya Rabbal'alamin.
Grant me, Grant me O Lord of the Worlds!
I have to go now n meet my maker u guys. 5:52 a.m. in this blessed lands of the Malay.

1 August 2009 at 22:53  
Blogger Maria said...

liberator,

The Single Gospel ('Injil in arabic) that was revealed in Aramaic, the vernacular language, of Jesus Christ does not exist anymore. This is the Gospel that Muslims believed that God Almighty "Allah" revealed to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary.

Therefore, the Gospel of Barnabas and other Gospels like Gospels of the Nazarenes, Gospel of the Hebrews, Gospel of the Egyptians, Thomas’ Gospel and other hundred more gospels that existed in 40 to 110 A.C. were not the Gospel that was revealed to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary.

The same way that the four Gospels - - Gospels of Luke, Gospels of Mark, Gospels of Matthew and Gospels of John, declared as canonic or official by the church are not as well the Single Gospel that was originally revealed to Jesus Christ (a.s.), son of Mary.

2 August 2009 at 05:57  
Blogger Maria said...

len,

The Holy Spirit has beginning, therefore, is not considered as part of God. Since, it has a beginning, it is therefore a creation. The spirit of trinitarian christians is not unique because buddhism doesn't believe that the world is created but believes that spirits exist in each individual.

The Holy Spirit is one of the innumerable spirits - - the angels, in the service of the Almighty God. The Holy Spirit is particularly referred to Angel Gabriel.

Again, don't confuse angel Gabriel who was in the service to bring the revelation to prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) from God Almighty to that of the angel of the mormons because The Message of the Mormons is "To Worship Jesus as son of God, Your Lord and Saviour" while the message of the Qur'an is "To Worship The ONe and Only True God Alone".

2 August 2009 at 06:16  
Anonymous len said...

Maria, srizels,
You obviously don`t want to know the Truth!You have accepted lies for truth , and truth for lies.!
I have seen a vision where you have shackles around your necks and on these are chains which attach you to your master, the slave master.
You reject the only one( Jesus Christ) who could break your chains,therefore you are condemned to remain attached to your master, wherever he goes you go, whatever he thinks you think.

People shout to you wake up!, wake up! But it is as if you have been drugged by your religion.
I pity you and the countless others bound by religion.
It will take a divine miracle to set you free.
I will pray for you both.

2 August 2009 at 08:24  
Anonymous len said...

And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain—
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

’Tis mystery all: th’Immortal dies:
Who can explore His strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine.
’Tis mercy all! Let earth adore,
Let angel minds inquire no more.
’Tis mercy all! Let earth adore;
Let angel minds inquire no more.

He left His Father’s throne above
So free, so infinite His grace—
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam’s helpless race:
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For O my God, it found out me!

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

Still the small inward voice I hear,
That whispers all my sins forgiven;
Still the atoning blood is near,
That quenched the wrath of hostile Heaven.
I feel the life His wounds impart;
I feel the Savior in my heart.
I feel the life His wounds impart;
I feel the Savior in my heart.

No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.

(Words Charles Wesley)

2 August 2009 at 08:56  
Blogger srizals said...

I have a story that I wanted 2 share with u guys. My wife after watching my dissapointed face asked me why did I expect u guys to accept my truth in the first place?
Baffled she explained, Ones that been admiring the moon that lighted their dark of nights for days after days would of course reject a statement issued by someone who claimed the light was actually belongs to the sun, n the moon is only like a mirror.

Hmm...my wife...I would never married my second without her consents.
Interesting fact 2 share with u guys, my beloved Prophet, Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. never practised polygamy, not until the passing of Siti Khadijah, his first beloved wife.
I can't say I will follow his beautiful examples, but...I won't build my happiness in the tears of my devoted wife. I love polygamy but I love my wife the most. Well, there aren't many men around anymore C, Look around ya!

2 August 2009 at 19:36  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 19:52  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 20:13  
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2 August 2009 at 20:31  
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2 August 2009 at 20:48  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Srizals,

If you have something worth hearing, please say it.

If you persist in posting inane song lyrics, you will find yourself summarily deleted.

Doubtles you will interpret this as an unjust persecution.

2 August 2009 at 21:01  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 21:03  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 21:24  
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2 August 2009 at 21:28  
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2 August 2009 at 21:32  
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2 August 2009 at 21:35  
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2 August 2009 at 21:39  
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2 August 2009 at 21:41  
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2 August 2009 at 21:46  
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2 August 2009 at 21:47  
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2 August 2009 at 21:50  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 21:52  
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2 August 2009 at 21:56  
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2 August 2009 at 21:58  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 22:07  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Srizals,

Since you have ignored the politest of requests, and since you have seen fit to vandalise His Grace's blog with inane babbling which is neither inteligent nor erudite, you are requested to play elsewhere.

It is a very great shame that you seem to be unable to understand the threshold of tolerance or the limits of hospitality.

2 August 2009 at 22:57  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 23:18  
Blogger srizals said...

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2 August 2009 at 23:49  

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