Saturday, July 18, 2009

Roman Catholic marriage agency advocates gay and unmarried parents

One is used to diversity in Anglican circles. Indeed, those circles are so concentrically numerous that it is no longer easy to discern what is orthodox Anglicanism, which church traditions are to be maintained and which foundational doctrines sacrificed on the altar of relativism. The via media has been become a cul-de-sac: the pretence of unity has finally been acknowledged, and schism become reality.

This is not AD325, and neither is it 1054: it does not approach 1517 or even 1534.

But the schism of 2009 is not an acutely Anglican problem, though there are those in another place who pour all manner of scorn and contempt upon the Worldwide Communion for its inconsistency, mutability and contradiction. Essentially, they mock its humanity. Instead of reaching out in love, some of those who are persuaded that their church alone is built upon a rock prefer to deride that part which is sinking into the sand.

But the ‘gay’ issue which has so plagued the Church of England has now reached the Church of Rome. It was, of course, an issue in Rome first, for Rome preceded England by 1200 years or so. And Rome has always had its gay priests, some of whom are certainly not celibate, and the worst of whom prey on the innocence of the altar boy. Although long known, it is simply not discussed. And when it is discussed, it is covered up – sometimes with tragic consequences.

At least the Anglican Communion is addressing the issues openly. It may not be edifying, but it is honest.

And yet those in another place continue to convey the impression that fragmentation is peculiarly Protestant; that division is intrinsic to Anglicanism; fracture is guaranteed and scission inevitable as a consequence of rejecting the papal and fusing the episcopal with the synodical.

But divisions are as evident in the Roman Catholic Church, and not only among the bishops in England and Wales. Terry Prendergast, chief executive of Marriage Care – a marriage support agency funded by the Roman Catholic Church – is of the opinion that homosexuals and unmarried couples can be just as good parents as married couples.

Presumably he favours the closure of the Catholic adoption agencies.

Their website says: ‘Marriage Care embraces and holds true to the Church's vision of marriage as a vocation of love, with the power to transform individual lives and to serve as a bedrock to a stable society.’

Its ‘Philosophy and Values’ make interesting reading.

Yet Mr Prendergast asserts there is ‘no evidence’ that children do better if they are brought up in a traditional two-parent family. And he laments that ‘those who live together out of wedlock are trying to lead good lives but find themselves "consigned to the dustbin" by the church’.

It is a great pity he chose to conflate these two issues, but he was addressing a group by the name of Quest - a 'group for lesbian and gay Catholics’ – and one gets the impression he was scratching itching ears. Certainly, his position directly contradicts his church's teaching, which holds that homosexuality is sinful: Pope Benedict maintains that it is a ‘moral evil’ and even the inclination an ‘objective disorder’.

It is a mystery to Cranmer why the Roman Catholic Church continues to finance Mr Prendergast’s itinerant ministry, for he preaches the sermon of the most liberal Anglican, and does so with misinformation, distortion and lies.

Consider this:

"We see, for example, that statistically children do best in a family where the adult relationship is steady, stable and loving – you should note here perhaps that I stress adult, not married, since there is no evidence that suggests that children do best with heterosexual couples."

No evidence to suggest that children do better with heterosexual couples? What about THIS, or THIS?

And what about the authority of Scripture itself?

He said that God is present in the relationships of married, homosexual and cohabiting heterosexual relationships where there is ‘commitment, consent and covenant. He continued: "They want to live good lives according to the precepts of the Gospels. They are an advert for the Church, an advert that the Church often ignores or consigns to the waste-bin."

Well, God can be anywhere and in any relationship, for he is omnipresent. And if he can speak through an ass, he can certainly speak through Terry Prendergast. But Mr Prendergast fails to perceive that cohabitation is the precise opposite of commitment for it is the absence of covenant. And the desire to live a good life is not sufficient for salvation: we are not saved by being nice. To assert that either cohabitation or homosexual relationships are consistent with ‘the precepts of the Gospels’ is to misrepresent the teachings of Christ. Unless, of course, in the Gospel according to Terry Prendergast, ‘love your neighbour’ is concerned with eros and not agape.

In Mr Prendergast’s Protestant-Catholic-Relativist mind, orthodoxy is subject to orthopraxis. His gospel is the synthesis of a number of heresies, fusing truth with error, thus rendering it as hard for Roman Catholics to discern authentic Christian doctrine as it has become for most Anglicans.

As if this were not enough, Mr Prendergast also said: “The fact that there are all kinds of benefits available for different family forms, and legal imperatives to support families suggests that the State is even more concerned for families than Church."

So this appalling and profoundly anti-Christian Labour government cares more about families than the church because it supports people who are unmarried and allows same-sex civil partnerships.

Cranmer can hardly be bothered to engage with this tripe. Of course single parents must be given support, and Cranmer has no problem with homosexual couples entering into secular binding contracts – for that is what ‘civil partnership’ amounts to. But the family unit is important to the Church because it is instituted by God for the effective functioning of society. And anyone who asserts that the present Government ‘cares more about families than the church’ is either stupid or in the wrong church.


Anonymous Mr. Hmm said...

"And Rome has always had its gay priests, some of whom are certainly not celibate, and the worst of whom prey on the innocence of the altar boy."

Those priests who prey on alter boys are not gay, but paedophiles. I accept that His Grace's views about gay rights are very different from my own, but surely it is not too much to ask that he does not deliberately smear gay people by conflating their sexual orientation with paedophilia. I note from some of the links that His Grace provides that such conflation has been a recurring feature of his writings on the subject. In the name of advancing a fruitful and meaningful debate, both within and beyond the Church, I hope that it will not continue.

18 July 2009 at 10:33  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Hmm,

His Grace has not said (for he does not believe) that all homosexuals are paedophiles, or that a predisposition towards one implies the other. However, since within the RC Church all priests are male, and all altar boys male, it necessarily follows that as paedophilia is manifest within that organisation it is of the homosexual variety.

18 July 2009 at 10:43  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Prenderghastly sounds suspiciously like a Nu-Fascist placeman to me. He also sounds like a an excommunication looking for somewhere to happen.

18 July 2009 at 11:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace,

Mr Prendergast's ignorance of children, their needs and welfare is truly alarming.


All children are the flesh and blood of their mother and father - procreators of the miracle of life.

'Buggery' does not create or sustain life and never will. Diseases, such as HIV, are often the result - mother nature's, not 'religions', physical, anatomical reaction.

18 July 2009 at 11:14  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Oh for God's sake, Your Grace! Why dilute a good post with this snide issue. You are getting a bit irritating.

Have you forgotten that Anglican Vicars have not been immune to this? A perennial joke in the 50's was the Vicar pointing to a choir boy and saying "I'll have him, number 5"

And in 'Brideshead Revisited', Sebastian picks up the News of the World "Oh look! another naughty Vicar"

'within the RC Church all priests are male and all altar boys are male..'

Ah! is that the reason why the Anglican Church introduced female priests?

By the way Homosexual 'homos' (Greek) = same, nothing to do with homo (Latin) = man. Homosexual = same sex , i.e. applies to both genders.

As for Prendergast, I do hope the Church authorities have the balls to kick him out on his ear, though with compensation culture, it's probably almost impossible to act.

Extemely Grumpy but still Ultramontane

18 July 2009 at 11:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Hmmm,

Perverts exist in all walks of life; their existence does not alter the texts of the Bible or it's teachings.

Christ himself vented his anger at unacceptable practices in the House of God.

18 July 2009 at 11:20  
Anonymous Mr. Hmm said...

But Your Grace did not refer to homosexuality, in the quote which I exhibited. He referred to being gay, which is a term differently used. 'Gay', unlike 'homosexual' (which is a piece of merely medical lingo) is not compatible with paedophilia.

Moreover, His Grace, in the same paragraph from which my quote was drawn, referred to what he called 'the gay issue' (just one such issue, note), and he clearly intended it to be read that this issue, which affects both the Catholic Church and the C of E, encompasses both the problem of whether or not gay clergy ought to be ordained by the C of E, gay unions to be recognised, etc., on the one hand, and the problem of paedophile priests within the Catholic Church on the other. And I'm afraid that it is impossible to take His Grace's insistence on conjoining these matters as anything other than an attempt at smearing gay people. His Grace implies that the question whether to allow gay people to be ordained or partnered under an Anglican roof is like the question whether to drive out the perpetrators of a terrible, abusive crime from under the roof of the Catholic Church. And that *is* a smear.

18 July 2009 at 11:27  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Terry Prendergast's opinions are of no interest to the Pope and his Bishops. If he is spokesman for a Catholic organisation he would have understood this as well.

Niceness,kindness,reasonableness are no guarantee of salvation.
The Church is an ancient authoritarian institution which is not conducive to change.It is as inflexible and rigid as the rock on which it stands and the only love it will extend to Anglicans is if they repent and cross the Tiber.

The teachings of the Church are all very clear on homosexuality abortion, marriage, contraception even acceptable and unacceptable sexual positions in marriage.It invades every aspect of ones life.

Child abusing priests being sent from parish to parish would never have been approved of by the bishops.It is a wicked time in the history of the Church and the Pope has apologized.

It is a disciplined and difficult religion without the humanity of anglicanism misguided as it is.Only saints can survive it.

'Superstition of course in every age has held the common people but in every age the educated and thinking ones have stood outside it,though usually outwardly conceding to it for convenience.'
C S Lewis.

18 July 2009 at 11:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ultra grumpy old catholic -

'homo' - any member of the genus Homo, which includes the extinct and extiant species of 'man'.

'homo' - slang. A homosexual.

'lesbian' - a female homosexual.

'gay' - cheerfulness, lightheartedness, bright or brilliant in colour.

Universal Dictionary.

18 July 2009 at 11:30  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

Life tests us on many fronts, and queers are failing quite monumentally on one.

To condone their error is not love, but is to deny them salvation. Any calling which seeks to bond two males, or two females in Earthly matrimony is not a calling from Heaven. Out of love and not hate, such error must be fixed.

The struggle within the church of Rome is not really news, and it seems His Grace is in an immediate state of shock and panic, pointing fingers of wild accusation. There is indeed nothing new under the sun and His precious church has been in a state of mortal decline for years, but at least now His head is out of the sand.

18 July 2009 at 11:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

His Grace is not by any chance related to Ruth Gledhill, she also has a predisposition to fly off like a spoilt teenage girl who cannot get her own way?

18 July 2009 at 11:43  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

What the hell has gone wrong with this country and the Church. It(they)seem hell bent on catering to all and any minority no matter weather they are cranky, obscene or even a threat to our way of life. It seems anything goes unless it is something that tries to conserve our values, customs and history. I am sick to the back teeth of the lot of them.

18 July 2009 at 11:46  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Anon 11:30

The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines

homo (as a prefix) = same as opposed to hetero = different

as in homosexual or heterosexual

I agree that there the slang homo refers to male,but I'm in a pedantic mood this morning

18 July 2009 at 11:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And the Anglican Church wonders why it is drowning in a stagnant pond of snot.

18 July 2009 at 12:00  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

And Rome has always had its gay priests, some of whom are certainly not celibate, and the worst of whom prey on the innocence of the altar boy.

If Rome’s homosexual priests prey on the altar boy, is it not just as likely that her heterosexual priests will prey on the altar boy’s little sister? Why single out gay priests as pædophiles?

Johnny Rottenborough

18 July 2009 at 12:02  
Anonymous the recusant said...

It is no secret that the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales have garnered a reputation for accommodating some of the more ‘liberal’ attitudes in society over recent years. It is also equally known that favourable reception has caused difficulties with the more conventionally minded Catholics in the UK.

We see the fruits of this course of action in the occasional outbursts from the likes of Prendergast. Put in the correct context his words mean very little and can be dismissed as the expected ill-informed reactionary anti-Benedictine Harman-esk equality speak from the liberation-theology chattering classes. Its purpose is to try and strangle at birth the revival of traditionally inspired Catholic moral teaching that has its genesis in Rome and seems now to be establishing itself (thankfully) at Westminster with the new Archbishop. We can only wait and pray that it trickles down and engenders some backbone in the rest of the less enthusiastic Episcopate.

Expect more of this propaganda from (and it pains me to say it) ‘educated’ Catholics (trot out the usual suspects) who while pledging support for the Pope outwardly dissent from nearly every aspect of his teaching and that of the Catholic Church with the eponymous ’BUT’. It’s not that they are bad people, it just that they are really Protestants but do not possess the intellectual honesty or integrity to admit or act upon it, they can attract attention as a dissenting Catholic in the press but there is no such thing as a dissenting protestant.

It could rightly be said that as a result of the unconditional acceptance of ‘modern’ lifestyles by the Bishops of the catholic Church in the past, not only have the chickens come home to roost, but they have thrown out the farmer, demolished the hen coup, built a mansion and decidedly stopped laying any eggs. Well I think they have had their day, new and better things are ahead for the Catholic Church, it’s just that they have not realised it yet, it won’t happen overnight it will take a generation or so and those that know better than the Church had better go and find pastures new to disrupt.

18 July 2009 at 12:14  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...


What you Say is highlighted with these views of a famous and unorthodox comedian, who is suddenly a guru on all things 'How' and 'Why':

Billy Connolly on Catholicism - "Take Your Invisible Friends With You".

18 July 2009 at 12:28  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

Mr.Hmm has taken you to task, but I surmise that you are not wrong. Jonathan King suggested at his trial that it was perfectly in order for a man seeking homosexual activity with teenage boys to pursue such inclininations. the boys in question begged to differ.

New Labour has been keen to lower the age of consent and there are still some homosexuals advocating 14 as a reasonable age.

No, you were not wrong!

18 July 2009 at 12:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The sacred gift of procreation is pleasurable but it was not intended for abuse....Humans should know better if they are to be the image of God.

18 July 2009 at 12:48  
Anonymous the recusant said...

ultramontane grumpy old catholic,
Well said but you have been here long enough now to know when His Grace is on a fishing trip. His argument A=B=C is set as a trap; unfortunately I think he caught you this time, he has caught me in the past, I try and be a bit more wary these days.

Mr. Hmm,
I don’t mean to split hairs but (and His Grace knows this), paedophilia was not the predominant deviant behaviour of the recent clergy sex scandal; it was homosexual priests that accounted for most of the abuse which more correctly is classified as ephebophilia (an attraction to pubescent and post-pubescent youth – 13+). This is an important distinction because from the foremost investigation into the abuse scandal in the USA the John Jay report concluded an overwhelming 81 percent of the victims were male
"a majority of the victims were post-pubescent adolescents with a small percentage of the priests accused of abusing children who had not reached puberty."

The results of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York study found about 4 percent of Catholic priests and deacons had been accused of sexual abuse during the period of 1950 to 2002. It said that 22 percent of the victims were under 10, 51 percent were 11 to 14 years and 27 percent were 15 to 17 years old.
Board member Dr. Paul McHugh, psychiatrist-in-chief at John Hopkins Hospital, said last year, "This behaviour was homosexual predation on American Catholic youth, yet it's not being discussed." And I think we know why the homosexual connection is not being discussed--it's politically incorrect to mention it.
Having said that, I do not minimise or try to dismiss the damage done by these clergy, it’s just that if we are truly to tackle the problem we have to be honest as to where the problem lies.
Oh and Your Grace, as I’ve proved before the problem is worse in the protestant clergy, dam and blast he caught me too…

18 July 2009 at 12:53  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Well finally Recusant you've come to your senses and spilt the beans.

I think Protestants converting to Catholicsm do not understand the religion they are embracing possibly because of poor religious instruction.When you were talking about liberal attitudes in the church were you referring to the
those idiotic folk masses with guitar playing nuns?The Pope should
ban them and have everyone involved excommunicated.

Good post Recusant and I'm certain that God is smiling on you for your honesty and might reward you
by allowing you to win the ashes this time.I think he's probably punishing my side for all the rude rosary bead jokes.

18 July 2009 at 12:54  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

I was referring to your first post Recusant....The second we could have done without.

18 July 2009 at 13:01  
Anonymous len said...

I have said this before but I will say it again,
Religious practices are useless in changing the fallen nature of man.That is why there are outbreaks of paedophilia,homosexuality, abuse,etc in the church, if the church is no better than the world or in some cases even worse there must be something radically wrong.
Gods solution for mans fallen condition is for man to be spiritually reborn or converted.
If man is unconverted and trying to suppress and control his fallen nature through sheer will power and religious practices this will prove to be impossible and lead to the sort of outbreaks which bring the church into disrepute.

18 July 2009 at 13:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace,

The 'devil' seems to be in the detail.

An 'Agency' is a government appointed taxpayer funded body of compliant 'box tickers'. Mr P (a Roman Catholic) has spoken on behalf of an government Agency.

It's designed to give the misleading impression that Mr P is speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church (and it's teachings).

In truth, he's paid by Nulabor to voice his somewhat 'anti religeous' views.

18 July 2009 at 13:55  
Anonymous the recusant said...

Jim Bartlet said...
For someone who doesn’t have any relationship with Catholicism any more he sure makes a lot of money out of it, his output is littered with Catholic reference. I like Billy Connolly (usually) and I shouldn’t wonder that he may return on his death bed, stranger things have happened.

Mr sydneysider
Please do not construe from my words any antipathy or hostility to my fellow Christians of the Protestant persuasion, I have more in common with them than that which separates us but that which does is of the essence, some are a bit barmy but who isn’t at times and I truly regret that the deformation split away the Dowry of Mary from Rome. I didn’t think my beans were particularly being hidden; anyone can read my past verbiage on His Graces blog and see my ranting on a multitude of topics, they would have to be desperate though.

Yes I am not particularly fond of guitar masses or the modern liturgical music, more akin to thin chicken soup, little meat and short on substance for my taste, excommunication may be going a but far though. Saying that, the Pope has clearly stated his full and unreserved support of Vat 2 and in that I think he is quite correct. As in everything it seems, the original intention has been ‘interpreted’ and diluted to meet the particular shifting mood of the times. I think we need to get off the sand and back on the rock.

I do hope we take the Ashes but I also have a particular soft spot for Australia as one very near and dear to me is an intensive care nurse there.

Are you familiar with Pythons' famous "Bruces" philosopher sketch on Australia's national flower?

This here's the wattle, the emblem of our land.
You can stick it in a bottle; or hold it in your hand.


“The second we could have done without.” ! Too cruel, too cruel.

18 July 2009 at 13:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The state of a 'society' is a direct reflection of the way in which it is governed and it's adherence to laws pertaining to a good and just society.

Britain is barely recognizable from that which it inherited 12 years ago. Nuliebor is as rotten to the core as it's master, the EU.

Any government elected to serve it's citizens has a God given duty to

18 July 2009 at 14:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim Barlett,

There's a difference between same sex couples loving each other and expecting a re-write of religeous teachings to accommodate their wishes, marital or otherwise.

The sanctity of marriage in a House of God is holy and based upon the union of 'man and wife and the blessing of children'.
Not to be entered into wantonly or lightheartedly ....

There are alternative venues for same sex marriages whose methods are not based on God's teachings.

18 July 2009 at 14:14  
Anonymous i albion said...

Your Grace,
Let's face it the world has gone quite mad,what used to be bad is good and what used to be good is bad,
just lets go to bed, pull the blankets over our heads and wait till its all over,i don't think it will be long.

18 July 2009 at 14:32  
Anonymous the recusant said...

Benedict Waits His Turn

Pope Benedict XVI insisted on waiting his turn behind another patient when he was admitted to the hospital today for an X-ray and operation on his broken right wrist.

The Italian news agency ANSA quoted hospital sources as saying that he let a peritonitis patient awaiting surgery go ahead of him. He spent most of the day in the hospital, but has now been released.

18 July 2009 at 14:56  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Oscar Wilde converted to Catholicism before he died.Nothing could be stranger than that.

I'm having printed t shirts made
which I will be wearing at all times,stating that in the event of my imminent demise under no circumstances is a priest to come near me,just in case they try to nab me before I push off...or is
Elton John to sing at my funeral.

The Bruces philosophy skit is very humourous.I wish I could say that this is an over exaggeration of Australian academic life.

18 July 2009 at 15:01  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

AIDS = L.O.V.E >>>Lifestyle Originated Viral Execution.

18 July 2009 at 15:13  
Blogger Ian said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 July 2009 at 15:27  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The Catholic Church banned homosexual men from the priesthood in 1961.

wv ended

18 July 2009 at 15:39  
Anonymous the recusant said...

Either you’re a night shift worker with not much to do or you should be in bed, it's obscene o'clock at night for you. You can add to your list John Wayne, Buffalo Bill Cody and George Washington who all had Deathbed Conversions to Catholicism.

I’m going to have a word with the Boss, we’ll see if we can’t get you yet.

18 July 2009 at 16:01  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

Comment Deleted 15:27


Now from all Parts the swelling kennels flow,
And bear their Trophies with them as they go:
Filth of all hues and odours seem to tell
What streets they sailed from, by the sight and smell.
They, as each Torrent drives, with rapid force
From Smithfield, or St. Pulchre's shape their course,
And in huge confluent join at Snow-Hill ridge,
Fall from the conduit prone to Holborn-Bridge.
Sweepings from butchers stalls, dung, guts, and blood,
Drowned puppies, stinking sprats, all drenched in mud,
Dead cats and turnips-tops come tumbling down the flood.
Johnathon Swift

18 July 2009 at 16:04  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

It's only 1am Sunday morning here.We get weekends off .In Sydney the city that never sleeps life begins at midnight.
By this hour I suppose you would have been tucked up in bed for 6 hours with a nice steaming hot mug of Boveril and two digestive biscuits(three on Saturday )rereading for the umpteenth time 'The Life of St Jerome'

Tomorrow I worship at the parish of Bondi where I will make a connection with the Almighty on a
2 metre wave.

18 July 2009 at 16:28  
Anonymous len said...

If you want religion, catholicism is as good as any,
If you want relationship, cut out the middleman and go straight to the Lord Jesus Christ.

18 July 2009 at 16:31  
Anonymous Laird said...

Jim Bartlet
'Disobedience to conscience is
voluntary,bad poetry,on the other hand, is usually not made on purpose.'C S Lewis

18 July 2009 at 16:37  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...


As you say

...he only does it to annoy, because he knows it teases.

But one has a certain world weariness from time to time, when you feel someone is in the same boat with you, fighting off the alligators, then he turns round and swings at you with the paddle.

Jim Bartlet: re Billy Connolly, wit and now cracker barrel philosopher.

John Wilmot had some pertinent things to say about wits in his Satire against Reason and Mankind

"For wits are treated just like common whores
First they're enjoyed and then kicked out of doors"

Not today, they're not.

18 July 2009 at 17:19  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I keep wondering where the showdown will occure , for there will be one , there are good parents and bad parents , and in recent times we have seen marriage and natural parenthood ynder such a sustained attack , you would never have thought the family unit ever existed , before the advent of the turkey baster.
The loss of the male function in married life is a further degrading , into this world of loveless ,insecure and self indulgent parenthood .

parents dont have the confidence in there own natural abilities thanks to the thought police constantly , picking on its fundmentals for some wort of vaugue equality goal .

we will unravel as a society unless this imbalance is corrected , the gay community may be foolishly creating a back lash which they did not forsee, in there claims of equality , namely the godless uncaring society which is beginning to emerge out of the spiv spin credit con trick .

If society cannot revert back to the efficient family unit , preferably god centerd , then violence will become a norm as means to an end , because the up and comming adults have no inner morailty to auswage the daily losses of worth , in a culture whose main goal is the attainment of lavish living , and little else .

The day will come when they regret not upholding the christian values and church as supreme , for the "lesser" society will not care what happens to anyone , even the gays

18 July 2009 at 17:54  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

"But one has a certain world weariness from time to time, when you feel someone is in the same boat with you, fighting off the alligators, then he turns round and swings at you with the paddle."

Because they are actually crocodiles.

18 July 2009 at 18:03  
Blogger English Viking said...

We have n the UK, within a space of time of less than 50 years, moved from a position of homosexual activity being illegal, to decriminaling it, to legalising it, to promoting it, to incarcerating people for speaking against it-condemning them as 'hate criminals'. It would have been simply impossible, 50 years ago, to predict that we would be in the position we are today, where most people appear to consider this sinful, deviant act normal. I fear in another 50 years paedophilia will be viewed in the same way. As Christians we should openly and vociferously state God's opinion on the matter, which is that buggery is an abomination. By the way, as a matter of fact most paedophiles are homosexual. This is a self-evident fact when you consider that sodomites make up approximately 5% of the nation (a generous estimate, but closer to the truth than the 10% lie put about by the gay lobby). This would mean that, if there were not a greater propensity amongst sodomites to interfere with young boys compared to heterosexual paedophiles interfering with young girls, 95% of such crimes would be heterosexual. They are not, and the reason for this is also obvious. Once a person has decided to abandon themselves to perverted, unnatural, sinful sexual behaviour such as sodomy, paedophilia is only just around the corner.

18 July 2009 at 19:59  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

An enigmatic comment, Your Grace.

18 July 2009 at 20:14  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

Gone over my head also, not too difficult though.

In defense of my 'bad poetry', I have this to say: This particular poem is reputed to be the source of the saying "it is raining cats and dogs".

It was a bad case of misuse, abuse even, so I will turn it into something respectable and highlight the difference between a literal interpretation, and a literalist interpretation. Nobody would assume for one minute that it is actually raining cats and dogs when they hear people make such a comment, but what about future interpretations when all the sources are weak and in an alien tongue?

18 July 2009 at 20:31  
Blogger John Henry said...

And on the subject of the RC church, may I humbly ask his grace if he jealous that that the Pope has a beer made in his honour?

18 July 2009 at 20:34  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

I just figured it out, duh! His Grace is fighting Crocs...and makes NO distinctions btween those in the boat to those outside. You will have to excuse me I am on drugs...of the legal kind!

18 July 2009 at 20:37  
Anonymous Proud Anglican, fed up of homophobic idiots like Cranmer said...

His Grace has let himself down with the view that Roman Catholic Priest = Homosexual or Pedofile or both. This kind of analysis is beneath you, unless of course under the pretence of being intellectual you are really just a bigot ?

I can see why that poor guy who was going to be Anglican Bishop of Reading [Gay, but celebate] was hounded from being apointed Bishop - because of people with views like yours. can't you just admit you are homophobic ?

18 July 2009 at 20:58  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...


Yes I thought that may be the case, though I was puzzling over the zoological distinctions; alligator, crocodile...

18 July 2009 at 21:10  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

I think this is His Grace's point>>>>> Big Teeth, nasty creatures, lots of scales etc etc. ie. very little distinction between both 'zoological' species. funny really!

18 July 2009 at 21:15  
Blogger Hugh Oxford said...

Thank you for drawing this to our attention.

As a Catholic, I will not let this continue unopposed, and will be asking some questions on Monday morning to the hierarchy. If it is the case that this is being funded by the Church - in other words with my money - there will be hell to pay.

I'm sure I am not alone.

18 July 2009 at 21:31  
Blogger Hugh Oxford said...

Once a person has decided to abandon themselves to perverted, unnatural, sinful sexual behaviour such as sodomy, paedophilia is only just around the corner.

Although I would not have used such strong language, I am inclined to agree. Once a man has crossed the line of practising homosexual behaviour, he has broken a psychological, moral and physical barrier which would suggest he has abandoned all normative constraints.

That is why homosexuality can only really be viewed with suspicion, and its proponents with distrust. It is an act of violence against oneself, a form of self betrayal.

Although I am not wont to quote the Koran, it is correct when it says that such behaviour indicates people that know no boundaries or limits.

18 July 2009 at 21:43  
Anonymous len said...

It is possible whilst condemning other peoples sin to overlook ones own sin.
" Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor Idolaters,nor Adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"( 1 Corinthians 6:18)

I think what Jesus exposed is that without Christ no-one would stand in the judgment.God does not judge on a sliding scale.
Christ paid humanity`s sin debt in full but this has to be accepted and acted upon.

18 July 2009 at 22:16  
Anonymous not a machine said...

There is a difference between judgeing and rebuking , which i have come to understand is quite important in repentence and salvation.

this perhaps narrows the term homophobia down for those that use it .

A rebuke is clay that can be shaped , a judement is a vessel fired and ready to be filled

your grace may be interested in the article on the genesis enigma in the Daily mail, i too had pondered how its description is more true than people care to believe. The ancients could have made deducted logic about what they saw , one only needs to ponder how a desert comes to life with water . how ever the description of day 1 is undeniable .

19 July 2009 at 00:00  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I'm going to play devil's advocate here but it needs saying.

While male homosexuality leaves me cold, being attracted to one's own sex does not mean that you are a potential paedophile. Homosexuals are no more disposed to paedophilia than heterosexuals. You cannot deny that there are such things as heterosexual paedophiles. What line do they need to cross to arrive at this loathesome destination?

19 July 2009 at 08:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I agree with you .The Archbishop for all his so -call sophistication and intellectual abilities is being quite shallow and in the comments made in this post is no better than a narrow minded tabloid reader- why didn't he just say he believes Catholic preist=homo=pedo?

That's a poor line of argument, but probably fits in with his own and the majority of his reader’s reviews- homophobic, sexist, racist, bigoted, and masquerading as supposed Christian views and wrapped up as a supposed intellectual of the right -really the Archbishops argument is like being back in the sixth form.

19 July 2009 at 09:08  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Gnostic - I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and so would have to consult such professionals before pronouncing on the subject with confidence!

From what experts and students have said to me, though, I have gleaned that pedophiles are frequently people who were themselves abused as children. The psychological damage continues into adulthood, and thus we might pause before we put children into the care of parents, teachers, 'nannies', or priests with such a history.

In the present forum, we seem to polarize the issue between homo and hetero...; in so doing we ignore bisexuality and the question of whether there are degrees thereof. My sources have suggested that bisexuals are really homo...; either way, my observations confirm that they are very often married people who give every appearance of being hetero. One clue as to their proclivities seems to lie in their emotional abuse of their partners - by unfaithfulness. So if such a person abused children, it could be difficult for a non-psychiatrist to categorize the 'orientation.'

I still have many questions as to how, whether, or to what extent, a history of being abused as a child contributes to homo- or bi- 'orientation'; or, indeed, whether it contributes to mental illnesses like schizophrenia. I have not discussed those issues with experts.

19 July 2009 at 09:22  
Anonymous len said...

A homosexual fell into a pit and couldn`t get himself out.A Pharasaic fundamentalist came along and said" You deserve your pit." A psychologist came along and said"Accept your pit.That way you`ll be happy."An apostate liberal came along and said"Your pit is Gods beautiful gift to you."A gay activist came along and said"Fight for your rights to stay in your pit."
A researcher came along and said"Discrimination against pits is illegal."A Charismatic came along and said"Just confess you`re not in that pit."Respectable people came along and said" We don`t associate with pit dwellers."His mother came along and said"Its your fathers fault you`re in that pit."His father came along and said"Its your mothers fault your`e in that pit."His wife came along and said" Its all my fault you`re in that pit"
But Jesus seeing the man, loved him, and reaching into the pit, put his arms around the man and pulled him out.
( Quoted from Deliver ministries)

19 July 2009 at 10:22  
Anonymous len said...

Jesus attitude towards sexual sinners and indeed sinners in general is surprising.We would naturally expect Him to condemn sinners, especially in the light of the O T punishment that adulterers should be stoned.
In fact the people that Jesus condemned were the religious people, especially the Pharisees. Jesus attitude to sinners should be considered in the light of John 3:17 in which God did not send Jesus into the world to condemn it, but to save it through Jesus, see also Lukes statement"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost"
(Luke 19:10)When Jesus returns a second time..then..the world will be judged, but in the meantime His word is to sinners is repent and be saved.

19 July 2009 at 10:41  
Blogger Gnostic said...

no nonny - thanks for filling in some of the grey areas. I do not believe there's a straightforward explanation for any of this.

19 July 2009 at 11:01  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...



But do not forget what He said to Mary Magdalene, whom 'repented' of her sin. This part is crucial to the message.

19 July 2009 at 11:32  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Thanks for advice about religious denominations I could sign up to but I'm already sorted in that department.

Bible study should be accompanied by you tube 'THE BIGGEST WAVE EVER SURFED' which definitely proves the existence of God and miracles
and should be made compulsory viewing for all seminarians studying for the priesthood.

Surfing clergy would bring a fresh and healthier outlook to the religious orders.Many would establish a better connction to the Almighty rather than in a gothic tomb.

20 July 2009 at 04:15  
Blogger Jim Bartlet said...

Alarming Africa male gay HIV rate.

HIV rates among gay men in some African countries are 10 times higher than among the general male population, says research in medical journal the Lancet.

Aids = LOVE

20 July 2009 at 16:18  
OpenID britologywatch said...

"'We see, for example, that statistically children do best in a family where the adult relationship is steady, stable and loving – you should note here perhaps that I stress adult, not married, since there is no evidence that suggests that children do best with heterosexual couples'".

Your Grace rightly takes Mr Prendergast to task over this assertion. However, let's put this the common-sense way: children do better when their parents (biological, adoptive or emotional) are in stable relationships, preferably with one another, and are happy. If a child has a gay parent, that child is more likely to be happy and to thrive if that parent in turn is happy and emotionally stable. If that means being in a gay partnership, this doesn't morally validate gay sexual relations but it equally doesn't invalidate the statement that the child is likely to be happier in such circumstances.

Similarly, it's better for the child, emotionally, if his or her parents or guardians are in a happy and stable unmarried relationship rather than an unhappy marriage; or, as so often happens in today's society, if the child's parents divorce and remarry, and the second marriage of the parent who has custody is happy - albeit that from the Catholic point of view, it isn't a valid marriage.

Prendergast's philosophical and theological error is that he confuses what's 'better' for the child in some woolly emotional / pastoral sense with what's ultimately better for that child's soul. But it's all too easy to say that it's better for people to go on living unhappy but moral lives than to go after a bit of happiness which they can then spread around. In other words, if a child's gay parents' happiness can also make the child happier than they would otherwise have been, who's to say what the balance of moral benefits or deficits will be in the long run? Prolonged misery and loneliness on the part of children can be a terrible force for moral degradation.

21 July 2009 at 09:09  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

Children learn from the environment put before them.
Send them to Australia for three years and they will come back with an Australian Accent.
This is an attempt by the state to turn more children into homosexuals.

22 July 2009 at 20:25  

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