Thursday, September 10, 2009

Rejection of Lisbon means Ireland will ‘sink without a trace’

What would the world be like without Ireland?

And by Ireland, Cranmer means the Roman Catholic Republic: presumably Protestant Northern Ireland will stay afloat in this diluvian apocalypse prophesied by Irish MEPs in the event that their country rejects the Lisbon Treaty a second time.

Yes, a tsunami of euroscepticism will cause the Emerald Isle to descend to Atlantis. And this would need to be quite a descent, for the highest peak, Corrán Tuathail in County Kerry, is 3,414 ft, while at its greatest depth, the Irish sea is just 576ft. So, in fact, according to these MEPs, Ireland would sink more than half-a-mile beneath the earth’s crust in the wake of a ‘No’ vote to Lisbon.

And so, they assert, saying ‘No’ a second time is ‘not an option'. "Neither Ireland nor Europe can afford the political turmoil that rejection of the Lisbon treaty would lead to," said Socialist MEP Proinsias De Rossa.

What kind of democracy is this?

What kind of prophecy?

What kind of delusion?

What kind of threat?

Consider this:

"A 'Yes' vote is critical because we urgently need Europe to end the last decade of navel gazing and get stuck in to tackling the jobs and financial crisis, the climate change and global poverty and homeless crisis."

Considering Ireland only rejected the Treaty last year, it is evident that nine years of this ‘navel-gazing’ decade cannot be blamed on the Irish. And what in any case is the record of the EU in the creation of jobs, resolving the financial crisis, building homes, ending poverty or reversing climate change?

In the 60 years of its ever-evolving existence, the ECSC/EEC/EC/EU has achieved nothing which could not have been more efficiently achieved and more effectively implemented by independent and sovereign nation states cooperating for their mutual benefit. Yet under the constant threat of World War III and, more recently, the perpetually-induced fear of terrorism and global warming, the liberties of the peoples and the foundations of democracy have been systematically eradicated.

If you want a vote in the EU grand plan, you may only vote ‘Yes’. There is only one political philosophy and one political objective, and to dissent from this makes one a xenophobic, insular, anti-European little-Englander.

Another Irish MEP, Marian Harkin, has demanded that the Roman Catholic Church intervene to stop the anti-Lisbon scaremongering. She said that without Lisbon and with a Conservative government likely to be elected in the UK general election, Ireland will become an "island behind and island off the coast of Europe".

Cranmer hates to the bearer of bad news, but that is precisely what Ireland is. No political delusion of grandeur can mask this geographic reality. Ireland is just an island behind an island off the north-west coast of Europe.

And it is strange that the Conservative Party should be blamed for this.

Cranmer has always believed it necessary to accept the harsh realities before any kind of progress can be made. Sometimes the truth hurts, especially when one is told that one is small, insignificant, inadequate, third rate, tin-pot, deficient, backward, retarded...

Not that Cranmer is saying that Ireland is any of these. No, it is simply that it seems to have a slight inferiority complex if it cannot accept that it is, undeniably, an island behind and island off the coast of Europe.

Mr De Rossa has also criticised the UKIP leader Nigel Farage for insisting that Ireland should vote 'No' to ‘bring this bulldozer to a juddering halt’. This will not, he insists, benefit Ireland at all.

This is called political campaigning, Mr De Rossa. You may not like it, but Mr Farage’s message is his opinion, and he is as entitled to it as you are to yours. And you yourself have not made it clear precisely how voting ‘Yes’ will benefit Ireland at all.

Marian Harkin was asked how fellow MEPs would react if Irish citizens reject the treaty for a second time on 2 October. She said responses ranged from disbelief to ‘at best incomprehension, at worst downright hostility’.

Political hostility to the democratically-expressed will of the people?

EPP member Seán Kelly said if the treaty was ‘scuttled’, Ireland would inevitably lose its status in the EU and would be left ‘punching well below (its) weight’. He said: "From a population point of view, there are 500 million people in the EU, we have four million. If 496 ratify it and four stop it completely then obviously you're going to lose influence and friends and status."

But 496 million people have not ratified it: their governments have done so on their behalf, frequently against popular opinion.

Marian Harkin has previously said: “The question here is not about a ‘YES’ or ‘NO’ to Lisbon – we are all entitled to our different perspectives – the question is about deliberately targeting people in vulnerable situations and printing misleading information.”


And telling people that Ireland will sink without a trace if the people vote 'No' is in no sense remotely misleading, is it?


Anonymous Pilgrim said...

The EU are so desperate for a YES vote in Ireland that they are pouring money, resources and people into the campaign despite the fact that this is against their own rules. For example there are reportedly around eighty EU sponsored officials touring Irish schools and college sixth forms with the YES vote gospel. No wonder they also wish to recruit the Catholic church to their cause. Nigel Farage and UKIP were of course accused of interference last time round for simply delivering a leaflet to each Irish home with basic facts about EU membership. Apparently the NO campaign is still ahead despite overwhelming pressure from the EU machine. I wonder what will happen if the Irish vote NO this time? Will the Island that stands between Ireland and mainland Europe be finally forced to wake up!

10 September 2009 at 10:15  
Blogger Oldrightie said...

The EU dictatorial bullying now is as nothing for when they have their army in place. necessary to force the "no" is not an option when any question is posed by the Polit Buro.

10 September 2009 at 10:16  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Seems like these Euro-morons have been borrowing strategies out of the Climate Alarmists Manual. These are the tactics of desperation and are completely without foundation.

It seems that the Conservatives are in the firing line because of Cameron's promise to give us a referendum if the Irish people vote no.

Needless to say I hope the Irish people DO vote no.

An excellent piece, Your Grace.

10 September 2009 at 10:18  
Blogger 13th Spitfire said...

Very well written your grace.

10 September 2009 at 10:42  
Blogger Frugal Dougal said...

I agree with 13th Spitfire.

And if the Eurocrats think that Ireland is disposed to slinking away from a fight, perhaps somebody should lend them a compendium of late 20th century history.

10 September 2009 at 11:02  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Thirded - 13th Spitfire and Frugal Dougal. Thank you, Your Grace.

I especially like the points surrounding: "an island behind an island off the coast of Europe." Though I'd add that it depends on one's point of view.

From where I sit, Ireland - and its cousin - lie in front of ... before ... and extremely nasty, ugly, cruel, dangerous, corrupt, despicable, landmass. Britain and Ireland always have led the world away from that viciousness, and towards freedom and improved civilization.

Up until now, they've succeeded in holding to the ideals that we began to develop a good 1500 years ago (of course, we've been here for 7,000 or more). I'm hoping we still find a way: but the Devil never gives up, does it?

We need a Leader, though. Not Cameron. He's a coward and a henchman of the Enemy. Why else would he deny the British their right to vote - regardless of what the Irish decide?

10 September 2009 at 12:58  
OpenID RobertEve said...

Fourthed - I'm just waiting to see the Irish give two fingers to the EU.

Don't suppose they will have time to vote a third time before the UK socialists are kicked out.

10 September 2009 at 13:49  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

I do hope Ireland votes 'No' and votes yes to liberty, security and freedom from the tyranny of the EU.

It is to our shame that we have to depend upon the Irish for our freedom. For if Ireland votes 'No' then the Conservatives have promised us a referendum.

If Ireland votes 'No' then we shall too. It will not be the end predicted by socialist MEPs.

The EU will revert to its usual game of a 'two speed Europe'.

That's fine by me for when we see French, Dutch and German dissidents picked up by Europol for breaching Article 54 of the Charter of Fundamental Freedoms and Rights (criticiisng the EU is forbidden) - that will concentrate minds with crystal clarity.

How can we help the Cause?

10 September 2009 at 14:16  
Blogger ZZMike said...

If the voters "get it wrong", they'll just keep on bringing it up to yet another vote until they "get it right".

Ireland may be just "an island behind an island", but it's no accident that it's called the Emerald Isle. For a while, Ireland was doing quite well, compared to England and to the EU.

Ireland has survived other invasions; it will most likely survive this one.

So long as there's Guinness and Bushmills (and Jameson and Tullamore and ...), there'll always be an Ireland.

That suggests an interesting path:
Call in the Catholic Church (Spanish Inquisition?)

"IRISH MEPs have called on the Catholic Church to take a stand against the monthly newspaper Alive for publishing an advert claiming the Lisbon Treaty could lead to the detention of children of mild alcoholics."

[Fascinating term - "mild alcoholic".]

"“I have had calls from carers who read this and are worried the treaty could lead to children being taken into care and for the seizure of possessions from people suffering from depression or alcoholism,” said Ms Harkin."

Which leads immendiately to a news item about Ashleigh Cave, 12, who collapsed after being given a vaccination for HPV cervical cancer.

Question a doctor and lose your child

"The mother of a 13-year-old girl who became partly paralysed after being given a cervical cancer vaccination says social workers have told her the child may be removed if she (the mother) continues to link her condition with the vaccination.
Cave said: “The social worker said I should stop believing the injection has anything to do with Ashleigh’s condition because I am putting my thoughts on to her and stopping her getting well."

I've read about people like that social worker in C.S. Lewis's Perelandra trilogy. They worked for an organization known as NICE.

10 September 2009 at 16:31  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

Please God, help Ireland to reach the right decision and vote a resounding NO to the Lisbon (Constitution) Treaty.

10 September 2009 at 18:00  
Anonymous Zach Johnstone said...

I have just written a letter to Mr de Rossa detailing how I feel about this; if anyone cares to read it, it is printed below in full.


Dear Proinsias,

Upon perusing the news this morning, I stumbled upon an article that evoked within me the need to speak out; an article which, to my thinking, highlights a point of view that derogates the very essence of democracy. An argument so antithetical to the fundamental principles of a representative system that I was momentarily taken aback. I speak of the article published today by the blogger Archbishop Cranmer, detailing the basic premise of your support for the Lisbon Treaty.

I count myself privileged to live in a system that affords others and myself the right to debate the rights and wrongs of issues of mutual concern. These issues are, in turn, legislated upon in accordance with the public consensus (mostly, anyway). I am delighted when I see my viewpoint has been taken on board, often being entrenched into law. I am less happy when I find that an alternative perspective is taken, rendering my opinions irrelevant.

But I accept it gracefully.

We have chosen to live in a representative democracy in which public will is translated into electoral representation to the best extent possible. There is, of course, one problem with this system that we all must live with: sometimes we don’t get what we want. It is a by-product of living in a liberal democratic system that, from time to time, people will feel strongly one way about something that their elected representatives feel just as strongly about the other way. In such a state of disparity, it is essential that the peoples’ verdict prevail.

Where on Earth is the representation of the Irish people in insisting upon a particular answer to a referendum? Where is the perspective when prophesising upon the demise and isolation of a nation should it dare stand up for its beliefs? It is imperative that MEPs such as yourself remain in touch with the wishes of your electorate. To stray from this path is the thin end of a wedge indeed; teeter any nearer the brink of what can permissibly pass as democracy and Ireland will need to change its name to something more befitting; something like Zimbabwe, perhaps, although that may actually have already been taken.

What I would like you to at least contemplate from this email, if nothing else, is an evaluation of whether the way in which many Irish MEPs are going about their business is worthy of the term “democracy”. Attempting to create the impression that there really is only one correct answer. Criticising vehemently comments of any and every Euro sceptic and thereby completely disregarding any right they may have to voicing their opinions (especially since, you may have forgotten, they can currently claim to be representing the views of a majority of Irish people). It is such an utter failure to accept that democracy doesn’t always yield the result everybody wants (precisely because this is in fact impossible) that astounds me.

In a democratic nation, you win some and you lose some. In thinking that when the people disagree with you it is okay to demand of them the perceived “correct answer”, somewhere along the line you have confused democracy with authoritarianism. If you were looking to the EU definition of democracy for guidance, then it is perfectly understandable as to how this uncertainly arose.

I very much look forward to your response.

10 September 2009 at 18:15  
Blogger ukipwebmaster said...

Nigel Farage goes on the attack in Dublin Lisbon vote debate:

10 September 2009 at 18:18  
Anonymous oiznop said...

Who is Zach Johnstone?!

Give that man a job!

Brilliant letter.

10 September 2009 at 19:04  
Anonymous Zach Johnstone said...

Thank you very much, although a 19-years old I think there would be some hesitation before employing me just yet!

10 September 2009 at 20:30  
Anonymous Pat said...

Ireland is indeed a small island off an island off north west europe. The word just is wrong.
But that is not to say that Ireland cannot survive without the good grace of the EU.
By that logic Ireland would have be mad to leave the British Empire- a vastly more powerful institution in 1920 than the EU is today- and could not possibly have survived the experience.

10 September 2009 at 23:00  
Blogger Carl Gardner, Head of Legal said...

I don't think you're right at all that the EU hasn't achieved more than member states could have achieved, Your Grace: I think the economic benefits of membership, admittedly including simple transfers from richer countries to poorer, together with the democratic condition of membership, has made a serious contribution to bringing about Europe-wide democracy from Greece to Estonia and from Portugal to Romania. That is really massive progress for humanity since I were a lad (Franco was still in then). It might all have happened without the EU, but EU membership has undoubtedly helped bind liberal democracy in in all the formerly tyrannised countries. I look forward to Turkey, which also used to be in the hands of the generals, being permanently embedded in the democratic world, too. Just the prospect of membership has helped it shift decisively in the right direction.

But of course Lisbon isn't about any of that. The civilising mission of Europe can continue perfectly well, and so can action against climate change, the depression and everything else, under the existing rules. Lisbon is about what kind of Europe you want - not whether you're pro- or anti-Europe. And the Sky will not fall in if Ireland say No. I hope they do; not because they're anything awful about Lisbon, but simply because I can't stand the bullying. The re-referendum is, simply in itself, a scandal. Lisbon (writ large, then writ small) has been rejected three times at the ballot box, and should be dumped.

10 September 2009 at 23:07  
Anonymous John Knox said...

Perhaps the EU will find some bankers to do the same to Ireland as it did to Iceland, forcing the population into Europe by economic necessity. St John's sine qua non about buying and selling in the end times? Economic blackmail and freedom to do whatever the EU dictates, how wonderful!

11 September 2009 at 00:42  
Blogger Dr.D said...

Ireland should vote NO by a much larger margin than previously, for their own good, and for the good of all mankind. If they were kicked out of the entire EU they would be blessed by that action. Membership in the EU a form of slavery, and every form of acquiescence to it simply increases ones servitude.

We must all pray that the Irish vote NO. It will be their opportunity to save civilization yet again.

11 September 2009 at 01:03  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

Vote NO Ireland, remain free. and start coining your own money instead of Borriwing it.

11 September 2009 at 02:49  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Adrian P
Ireland was part of the Sterling Group,ie its currency (the Punt) was linked to the Pound.
I think that is what Cranmer wants-a poor and backward country dominated by Britain.

11 September 2009 at 03:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us pray, for all our sakes, that Ireland says ‘no’ for the second, but probably not the last time.

Nice plugs for UKIP, Your Grace and ukipwebmaster. Incidentally, I see there’s more financial shenanigans within UKIP as their treasurer, Marta Andreasen, has just thrown in the towel saying “I resigned because I disagree with how the party is being managed at the level of the chairmanship” and “There have been certain breaches in the procedures.”:

11 September 2009 at 09:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That news in the Times about UKIP is yet another unhealthy sign of a house divided against itself.

Is the UK Independence Party about to metamorphose into the UK Implosion Party?

11 September 2009 at 09:47  
Anonymous Nelson said...

Your Grace.
It seems from the posts on this issue that the only people in favour of the EU are the failed has beens that sit as overpaid mandarins within the European Parliament.
Needless to say that I'm with the rest, Go on Ireland, give the Eurocrats a bloody nose.

11 September 2009 at 10:59  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Carl Gardner

Under the Lisbon (Constitutional) Treaty there is no Europe-wide democracy.

The Treaty is self-amending. Therefore the peoples will be superfluous to requirements.

11 September 2009 at 20:19  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Your Grace , I am fed up with the EU. The more I think of it , the more I am of the view that the UK should simply get out of this mess altogether. Whilst I support the conservatives, this is not their view . So should I go to UKIP ?

11 September 2009 at 22:18  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

It's Ok, because if the Irish vote Yes this time, the EU will keep asking them to make sure they really mean it wont they, so they can leave at any time.

12 September 2009 at 04:11  
Blogger Felix said...

Pleace vote for democracy and against the treaty of lisbon

Dear irish people!

Pleace stop the treaty of lisbon! Is is antidemocartic, militaristic, antisocial. The disadvantages are much bigger, than the advantages. The EU can live with its actuell laws. They should only be changed into a democratic direction. With the treaty of lisbon, the european council is able to change this treaty in great parts without asking the parliament. This is nearly the same law, which mades the nationl- rassistic- party of Germany so powerfull in our country in the year 1933. Our basic law (the german constitution) and all other european constitutions should not be replaced by the treaty of lisbon. But the new treaty tries to bring all right- sytstems in a lower level than the new european right. Here is my informationpage: . When you have some more english information, pleace send me a link or text or write it into the visitors book of my page. And pleace spread this text all over Ireland.

In the hope in your activities for a better Europe, Felix Staratschek, Freiligrathstr. 2, D- 42477 Radevormwald (Germany)

27 September 2009 at 08:39  

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