Monday, November 16, 2009

Dispatches and the ‘pro-Israel lobby’

Cranmer does not know what Peter Oborne intends to say on tonight’s C4 Dispatches programme,Inside Britain's Israel Lobby, but judging by many of the histrionic comments beneath the publicity spiel, one might think they are about to broadcast a revised version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The recurring theme is that of 'Global Jewish Conspiracy': and C4 are permitting an ignorant crowd of amoebic anti-Semites to propagate their vile gospel of Jew-hatred with impunity. The thread is impeccably timed to help assuage the rising tide of anti-Semitism in the UK. No doubt The Guardian will be delighted (update: they are).

Cranmer has received an email from a communicant member of the Anglican Friends of Israel, who observes that few people are aware of the European Union Monitoring Centre for Racism and Xenophobia's Working Definition of Antisemitism . Certainly, it appears that C4’s moderators are not, for the comments are punctuated throughout with examples of what the EUMC calls 'the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media’. They say that current anti-Semitism ‘… charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong”. It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.’

It continues:

‘Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include...

‘Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations...

‘Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective – such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.’

Moderators of the C4 comment thread have approved numerous examples of these forms of anti-Semitic discourse. For instance:

‘We are being attacked from within by 5th columns in our parliament for this murderous regime.’

‘It is disgraceful that C4 is intending to expose the pro-Israel lobby. Surely it is a signatory to the "National Press & TV Zionist Agreement", which stipulates in paragraph one: "Thou shalt not print nor broadcast any reference to the undemocratic control by the agents of Israel over the House of Commons &/or the House of Lords”.’

‘.. the Israel lobby works to subvert the British political process and foreign policy to serve not British interests, but the interests of a foreign occupying tyranny, a left-over from the colonial era.’

‘Let's see the hand of global Zionism at work.’

‘We want our country back. The agents of a foreign power embedded at all levels of our government and politics need flushing out.’

‘The Zionist Lobby counts many British politicians (who) function as a fifth column in support of Israel's illegal actions. The powerful impact of the Zionist Lobby on British politics is more damaging to our country than that of the ghastly BNP.’

No-one claims, least of all Cranmer, that the State of Israel and its religio-political policies should not be rigorously examined and critically scrutinised, and some of the comments make legitimate, hard-hitting criticisms. However, many of these comments revive the discredited Global Jewish Conspiracy theory, thereby stoking anti-Semitism in the UK, and their presence on C4’s website is unworthy of a television channel which prides itself on exposing and challenging racism wherever it is to be found.


Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

‘Moderators of the C4 comment thread have approved numerous examples of these forms of anti-Semitic discourse. For instance:…’

The moderators at Channel 4 are typical Left-liberal anti-Semitic racists.

Let me make this exceptionally clear: Israel is the only democracy in that region. It is surrounded by 350 million hostiles.

It has been repeatedly attacked. Everyday rockets are fired upon Israeli citizens and the Left-liberal press conceals that from the public.

The Palestinians were no-mads – it was the Israelis that transformed the desert into an oasis the size of Wales.

Jewish soldiers, sailors and airmen have fought for this country in every major war – and this once great nation has honoured them with medals.

People are jealous of Jewish people – they have been honoured with more Nobel Prizes than any other nation upon this earth.

16 November 2009 at 08:52  
Blogger Christopher Evans said...

Ah the media, where would we be without them? If only they would be biased in my interests, but we can't have it all ways I suppose. You got a take the rough with the smooth. I f we are going to encourage stonethrowing then we need to get hard hats.

16 November 2009 at 09:02  
Blogger D. Singh said...

And another thing Your Grace, people seem to conceive of political positions in a linear fashion; hence such phrases as left-of-Centre and right-of-Centre.


Political positioning should be seen as circular: socialism can shuffle into National Socialism.

16 November 2009 at 09:03  
Anonymous bag lady said...

I personally think D Singh is the childish one. Clearly he has never studied Politics or philosophy or if he has it is at pre GCSE level.

16 November 2009 at 09:14  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

The words "Dispatches" and "honest reporting" go together like "Hugh Hefner" & "Chastity".

When Dispatches broadcast secret footage from inside mosques of Imans inciting violence against the Jews & kaffirs, C4 were prosecuted for religious hate crimes. Now C4 will broadcast a program inciting hatred of the Jews and it'll be the Jewish community that get punished. Go figure.

16 November 2009 at 09:15  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

Here is just one of many illustrations that provides evidence of barve Jewish commitment:

The Civil War: Creates Jewish Soldiers And Heroes
by Seymour "Sy" Brody
When the Civil War erupted in 1861, it divided the nation and the Jewish population. Jews enlisted in the armies of the North and the South, giving them the opportunity to become good soldiers and heroes. There were approximately 150,000 Jews in the country, with about 8,500 of them fighting for the North and South. In the North, the record shows that there were many Jewish officers: 8 were generals, 21 colonels, 9 lieutenant colonels, 40 majors, 205 captains, 325 lieutenants, 48 adjutants and 25 surgeons.

General Oliver 0. Howard wrote "that there were no braver and patriotic men to be found then those of Hebrew descent..." General Stahel also acclaimed the bravery and heroism of the Jewish soldiers in the North.

It is reported that New York had 2,000 volunteers and Illinois had 1,000. Six Jews received the nation's highest award, the Congressional Medal of Honor, while many received other medals for heroism.

The Jewish casualties were high, for example Marcus M. Spiegel, who was killed in Louisiana when he was about to be promoted to brigadier general, or Leopold C. Newman, who was fatally wounded at Chancellorsville, where President Abraham Lincoln visited him on his deathbed.

In the South, Jewish volunteers flocked to the Confederate cause. Captain J. Roessler and Private Leon Blum were widely recognized for their role in the Southern resistance. In Charlotte, North Carolina, Jewish women raised $150 for the Confederate cause. The role of the Confederate Jewish soldiers in the Civil War can best be described by the words of T.N. Waul, who commanded a Southern Legion:

"Two of the infantry companies had a large number of Jews in their ranks and the largest company in command - 120 men - were officered by Jews and three-fourths of the rank and file were of that faith. There were also a number of Jews scattered throughout the command in other companies. They were all volunteers; there was not a Jew conscript in the Legion. As soldiers they were brave, orderly, well-disciplined and in no re- spect inferior to the gallant body of which they formed a prominent part. Their behavior in camp, as in the field, was exem- plary. No Jew in the command was arraigned before a court martial and in proportion to their numbers, there were few ap- plications for leaves of absence, and their regular habits caused very few of their names to appear on the hospital roles. In battle, without distinction of race or religion, all were apparently willing and eager for the contest. I will say, however, I never saw or heard of any Jew shrinking or failing to answer any call of duty or danger."

In the Civil War, Jews responded to the call of duty whether it be for the North or the South and they proved that they could be good soldiers as well as heroes in fighting for their country.

16 November 2009 at 09:18  
Anonymous walter love said...

D Singh said "Political positioning should be seen as circular: socialism can shuffle into National Socialism."

True enough old cock, that is exactly the direction you are travelling in .

16 November 2009 at 09:20  
Anonymous Williams said...

D Singh has still not answered my question to him from Friday- it would be nice to have an answer.

16 November 2009 at 09:27  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Och! Williams

It is the daily and hourly consistency of your pleading that demonstrate you keep writing the word ‘Darkness’ on your cell wall when the nurses’ smiles beam sunshine.

16 November 2009 at 09:47  
Blogger Preacher said...

Your Grace.
Once again the ugly spectre of anti-Semitism raises its head. This demon has been around since the beginning.
The Jewish people have always suffered thus & will probably continue to do so until the return of the Lord. It is true that the Jewish race like all others is comprised of a mixture of good & bad, but God chose them to recieve & transcribe His word, without which we would all be ignorant of Him, His requirements of us, His view of sin & His remedy for it in Jesus. Perhaps this is why they recieve so much attack from Satan. At the time of the Exodus, not all Jews were good & not all Egyptians were bad, the difference is that the Jews obeyed Moses instructions from God & on the night of the Passover they were covered by the blood, the Egyptians were not. A lesson to be learned?.
On another thread ,it appears that several communicants seem more intent on goading & attacking D.Singh than commenting on the content of Your Graces excellent reports & while he is more than capable of defending himself as he has so often proved, it is lowering the standard & I'm sure it's proving distracting to many, so please people, let's stay on track & comment on the articles that His Grace has submitted.

16 November 2009 at 09:58  
Anonymous Williams said...

I'm just jealous because D Singh's cell is bigger than mine- and has more padding !

16 November 2009 at 10:33  
OpenID yokel said...

In the current climate, am I alone in thinking that this is merely the Religion of Peace getting in first with what passes for their defence?

16 November 2009 at 10:38  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

16 November 2009 at 10:40  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Your Grace

I have to ask, where is all this alleged anti Semitism coming from as I see no evidence of it in my part of the UK(S Wales). I see and perhaps feel a certain anti Islam-ism around me and I think that is more understandable as Islam is a far more prominent foreign influence in our everyday perception than is Jewishness.

I think the anti Semitism that C4 refers to probably emanates more from the Muslim community than from the rest of us. What C4's agenda actually is though I couldn't say, as with everything political, there are reasons within reasons.

16 November 2009 at 10:42  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

It goes without saying that Israel must be supported, it is a democracy surrounded by hostile forces.

16 November 2009 at 10:42  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

Englishman, I would respond by pointing you to D Singh's excellent posts earlier on ( I can't believe I just said that !)

16 November 2009 at 10:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our local church has a close link with a Palestinian Christian community who until recently were served well by their local church. That is until the someone decided that the West Bank Barrier should run between the village and said church.

I really do understand the level of emotion between both sides, however the fact remains that the Palestinian people have been dehumanised now for generations.

16 November 2009 at 10:47  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aside from being on an anti-semetic rant of your own ,Englishman, what is the point you are making in relation to his grace's post ?

16 November 2009 at 10:47  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Your Grace..I care not whether Jew or Arab I treat all as I find however..

I believe what I see with my own eyes..

Youths and children throwing stones being shot from helicopters and tanks.

Palestinian homes being demolished and armed groups building compounds and moving in.

A race of people half starved and denied basic human rights by deliberate gov policy.

The Jews once had the sympathy of the world due to the holocost but that sympathy is waring thin and day after day we see Jewish brutality.

Its as if they are become what they despise...

16 November 2009 at 10:59  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

It seems that the key to understanding the anti-Semitism of the ‘Left’ is to see it through their prism of the class-structure.

From their view-point anti-Semitism is not to be opposed for the evil that it is.

It is to be opposed because it fractures the class-bloc. ‘Left’ ideologists believe they are immune to anti-Semitism because of the way they have framed the definition of class and therefore when anti-Semitism rears its lice-ridden head within the class – it is segregated as ‘an error of judgment’.

Thus they arrive at the conclusion that Jewish people (and Christians) should not confront the evil of anti-Semitism because it is anti-Jewish but because it damages the class-bloc.

16 November 2009 at 11:02  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

His Grace would like to remind communicants to be reasoned and reasonable in their contributions. Any inflammatory remarks of the C4 calibre will be summarily deleted. His Grace prefers allegations to be substantiated, for this is a blog of intelligent and erudite discourse (or it tries to be).

16 November 2009 at 11:02  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

"Any inflammatory remarks of the C4 calibre will be summarily deleted. His Grace prefers allegations to be substantiated"

I find that hard to believe when so many of D.Singh's spurious claims remain for all to see. Although I am all for freedom so speech no matter how foolish and misguided it is so leave them all up I say.

16 November 2009 at 11:23  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

I am Stan said... "Your Grace..I care not whether Jew or Arab I treat all as I find however.. I believe what I see with my own eyes.."

With your own eyes eh? Not the eyes of the BBC or the Guardian or the Times? Not through the eyes of Pallywood?

And even if your accussations are true (which they undoubtedly are - if you only listen to one side of the story), can I assume you get similarly animated by the far worse 'abuses' in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Libya & on & on ad nauseum?

And if this pro-Israel lobby (for which you can read 'Jews' ... Israel being a fig leaf of a euphemism) is so highly powerful & influential, why have they been so ineffectual? Why is our media, academia & government so overtly hostile to everything Israeli? Or is that some very clever double bluff?

16 November 2009 at 11:28  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

TheGlovner is correct; D Singh really should substantiate what he says rather than accusing "the left " (I thought you disagreed with such categorisation) of anti Semitism or not fighting anti semitism.

16 November 2009 at 11:43  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

With respect to my analysis, I can’t do their reading for them. I have had the ‘privilege’ of studying ‘socialist’ writers:

Marx (1818-1883)

Gramsci (1891-1937)

Lukacs (1885-1971)

Christopher Hill (1912-2003)

E.P. Thompson (1924 -1993) are amongst the few that I have read.

16 November 2009 at 12:03  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

D Singh

Why do you classify all socialists as communists such as Marx (who was actually JEWISH !?) Does that make all tories far right biogts like you ? No it does not .

I for one resent your accusation that all people of the left somehow do not stand up against anti -semitism, can you prove that ? No you can't.

16 November 2009 at 12:09  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Rebel Saint....Yes through the eyes of world media and witnesses i have not actually stood in front of an IDL tank myself..are you suggesting the worlds media are all lying.

I listen to all sides of an argument and get animated by all abuses by whoever.

I do not agree that everyone is overtly hostile to everthing Jewish..this is the line trotted out every time Jewish aggression,integrity,honesty and policy is questioned...and Isreal it seems has been very successful in wealth creation and continuing its policies of imprisoning the Palistinians whatever the media or opinion or international resolutions say.

Fact is like i said sympathy for the Jews is at an all time low due to their actions, and screaming Antisemite every time they are under the spotlight now has little effect.

16 November 2009 at 12:21  
Anonymous labour voting Anglican said...

Your Grace, thank you for this, I will watch the progamme now and judge for myself. It seems strange that a rightist like Obourne could be considered to be anti Israel, so perhaps we shouldn't confuse comments on a website with what the programme says, but we will find out tonight.

16 November 2009 at 12:25  
Blogger D. Singh said...

It is written: ‘Go to the ant thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise.’

16 November 2009 at 12:47  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

Ah D Singh can't argue about this one. Case closed.

BTW , it is also written "wise men store up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool invites ruin"

16 November 2009 at 12:59  
Blogger D. Singh said...

It is written: 'A soft answer turneth away wrath.'

16 November 2009 at 13:04  
Anonymous job goldstien said...

Can we please not have another showing of the D Singh and Christian Socialist show and talk about the article ?

I think we need to watch the progamme and then make a judgement on its merits or otherwise. It is not suprising about the comments on a C4 blog, in that sometimes blogs do tend to bring out people on one extreme or the other. Let's wait until the show has aired and see for ourselves what it is saying, rather than let the media present to us their view.

16 November 2009 at 13:11  
Anonymous the Marx brothers in colour said...

D Singh, since when have you ever had a soft answer to anything on this blog? Did I miss that day?

16 November 2009 at 13:13  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Some of you are thinking you won't fight; others, that you can't fight. They all say that until they're out there. [Picks up a sword] Thrust this into another man's chest, and the crowd will applaud and love you for it. In time, you may even begin to love them for that. Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly, we cannot choose how, but … we can decide how we meet that end in order that we are remembered … as men.


16 November 2009 at 13:28  
Anonymous Williams said...

Well I will watch the progamme and make up my own mind. I would disagree (in an intelligent and erudite manner) with the issue of comments on a C4 blog. Afterall your grace, you have to admit some of the comments on this blog, would not be flattering to your position or intelligence if it were implied you endorsed the views of commentators ?

16 November 2009 at 13:29  
Anonymous eikonoklast said...

To most of us Israel is just another middle eastern country full of chippy religious nutters who could start a fight in an empty room. I for one refuse to get dragged into arguments about which side is more deluded and obsessive than the other and I double-refuse to be emotionally blackmailed into 'supporting' either.

16 November 2009 at 13:29  
Anonymous Social Democrat said...

D Singh, his grace reminds us to post intelligent and erudite posts. How is what you have just spouted intelligent and erudite ?

For my own say on this, let's watch the progamme and see what it says.

16 November 2009 at 13:31  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

I am Stan ... I am indeed suggesting that a substantial proportion of the world's media are giving a very jaundiced view of Israel. At best this is due to a level of naivety that is very rarely seen when reporting on other foreign affairs. At worst, it is downright hostility and/or partiality.

I won't take all your points one-by-one but I'll take as an example the oft quoted 'Israeli abuse' of indiscriminately demolishing Palestinian homes. Have you ever stopped to wonder why? Sounds shocking until you discover several other relevant pieces of information:

(1) Palestinian terrorists have no qualms about carrying out their operations under a civilian umbrella. Homes are often used as bomb making factories. Arms smuggling tunnels often terminate inside Palestinian homes. [The widespread use of smuggling tunnels is another reason the IDF sometimes flood areas]

(2) The families of suicide bombers are promised substantial cash incentives by Hamas [probably some of the 'Aid' money that the EU loves to pump into the Palestine but nobody ever questions why the countries infrastructure remains in ruins except to say it must have something to do with Israel!] and nice family homes ... kind of like the widows benefits of a pension scheme. Israel demolishes them to let them know that incentive will come to naught.

They don't simply pick random homes to demolish. However the media simply buy up the Palestinian side of the story ... "They drove their bulldozer into my home". But how many times have you heard the media ask the IDF, "Why did you bulldoze that particular home and leave neighbouring homes standing?"

Ask yourself how many Arabs live in Israel, and what rights do they have under Israeli law? Then ask yourself how many Jews live in Palestine and what rights do they have? Then ask yourself, which side is guilty of ethnic cleansing?

Now depending of where you stand on Theology, there is also a much wider picture about about why this fairly demographically insignificant group of people called the Jews have often been persecuted throughout their existence. And that is because they are the people that Yahweh - Almighty God - promised to send His Son, the Saviour & Redeemer of the world through. Ever since then their has been what can only be described as a spiritual conspiracy to see them annihilated - whether by Pharaoh, Herod, Hitler or the 21C media!

16 November 2009 at 13:32  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

I agree with rebel saint, we must be supportive of the only real democracy in the middle east.

16 November 2009 at 13:35  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Incidentally, D Singh, I repeat my plea of the other day ... please stop responding to all the trolls that seem to have appeared recently. If you have spent any time reading blogs or forums you will realise that responding to their every goading merely causes their posting to multiply.

A gentle answer may turn away wrath, but no answer at all may turn them away completely!

16 November 2009 at 13:39  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

Rebel Saint,

I trust you do not consider me to be a "troll". You know or show know that I am centre-left, but I am not here to cause trouble, merely debate the issues and ideas of the day. In anycase if I were such a trouble maker I would not be agreeing with you on the issue of Israel.

16 November 2009 at 13:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rebel Saint, I would watch it .D Singh IS a troll, his views are so extreme he is trying to show up moderate tories. He will argue with anyone. He will be arguing and smearing you next.

16 November 2009 at 13:45  
Anonymous the village parson said...

Rebel Saint is basically saying that we should all agree with one another and anyone who disagrees in an intelligent way with either the article or a subsequent comment from another poster is a TROLL? That is not very logical to me .

16 November 2009 at 13:55  
Anonymous Proximo said...

D Singh, so what are you saying , that you want to have a debate? What about ?

16 November 2009 at 13:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know fellas it could be that D Singh is right and the socialists are confused by their methodology: thesis+anti-thesis = synthesis. An apple + banana = The bells of St Clementine’s.

16 November 2009 at 14:13  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Surely when a nation is imprisoned within its own ever decreasing borders it will use all measures to fight back against an overwhelmingly powerful and aggressive force.

I dont believe either side is purely innocent but you are trying to paint the Israelis as such.

For years now we have seen Israel break international treaties and keep the squeeze on the Palestinians,even using children as human shields.....Isreal does not hold any moral high ground.

They have the money the weapons the media savvy and the will to take land that is not theirs by force.

Of course this has been going on for centuries and will not stop soon i fear but lets not pretend the Zionists are all nice people.

16 November 2009 at 14:19  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

I too believe that it is right to be supportive of the only functioning democracy in the Middle East and that there needs to eternal vigilence against anti-semitism and all others forms of bigotry fot that matter.

But beliveing a state should exist does not mean that it can be above criticism - I would have thought that British Conservatives would not need to be reminded of this - and the conduct of the Israeli government has pretty awful in recent years. If you bother to look closely enough you will find plenty of Isralis (they are a democracy) who now how to criticise Israel and still remain its friend - I am not sure you will find such a current of thought within CFI so easily.

16 November 2009 at 14:45  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Tory Boys Never Grow Up,

Are you being purposely obtuse?

"No-one claims, least of all Cranmer, that the State of Israel and its religio-political policies should not be rigorously examined and critically scrutinised..."

16 November 2009 at 14:48  
Anonymous IanCad said...

It never ends. Take heart that the nation, chastised by God, is more than capable of handling the human forces arrayed against it.
D. Singh 09:18
To expand on your post re. The War of Northern Aggression -- Judah Benjamin and Abraham Myers were, respectively, Secretary of State and Quartermater General of the Confederacy.

16 November 2009 at 15:07  
Blogger D. Singh said...


16 November 2009 at 15:16  
Anonymous Fran said...

His Grace is entirely in the right when he writes

'His Grace would like to remind communicants to be reasoned and reasonable in their contributions.

I wonder whether His Grace has missed 'Englishman's' anti-semitic rant - or whether it has been left on purpose in order to demonstrate just how vile a phenomenon undiluted Jew-hatred is?

16 November 2009 at 15:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Take heart that the nation, chastised by God, is more than capable of handling the human forces arrayed against it."

Yes Israel can, thanks to the support of the American superpower-nothing to do with God, though.

16 November 2009 at 15:34  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

'The recurring theme is that of 'Global Jewish Conspiracy'

Do your research, Cranmer. Oborne - who goes up and up in my opinion - explicitly rejects such theories.

It is comical that, now that the cat is thoroughly out of the bag as to what Israel is and what Israel does all its apologists can do is scream 'anti-semite' in increasingly hysterical terms seeking to close down debate.

It is little noticed that the real anti-semites are now rather pro-Israel. This no doubt does not mean that they like Jews any better but rather that it makes a good cover and they particularly like what Israel does to their main contemporary bugbear - violence to Muslims.

Meantime the Israel lobby's useful idiots (mentioning no names of course) blether on hysterically.

16 November 2009 at 15:49  
Anonymous Devil's advocate said...

Hmmm, whilst the support from any quaters is always welcome I am suprised that a few commentators actually support Israel, because she was founded by socialist and not religious Jews. In fact this is why initally the USSR was one of the first countries to recognise Israel.

So there does seem to be a contradiction in some people's rational here (bashing socialists at home, but supporting a country that was founded on a socialist model).

16 November 2009 at 15:50  
Anonymous St Ives said...

Jeremy Hyatt

I thought the programme was not going to be broadcast till tonight, so how do you know for yourself what the programme will say ? Are you the producer or something?

16 November 2009 at 15:53  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

St Ives...

'It is important to say what we did not find. There is no conspiracy, and nothing resembling a conspiracy'.

Peter Oborne and James Jopnes

the Guardian.


Clear enough???

16 November 2009 at 15:57  
Anonymous St Ives said...

So a Guardian reader is sticking up for a daily mail writer. I never thought I would see the day when......

Anyway the quote appears to be a clarification. So perhaps it would still be best to watch the show tonight eh?

16 November 2009 at 16:00  
Anonymous Penny said...

Well, I do hope the anti-zionists will have the integrity to immediately bin their laptops, mobile phones, Windows-based computers, XP, Vista and so on. All developed or invented in Israel.

Prior to any medical treatment, I also hope they will double-check and refuse any invented in Israel. Heart stents to keep the blood flowing, for example.

As two young Israeli inventors have come up with a device to cut our oil consumption by half, I trust the anti-Israel lobby will insist that the world does not use it and continues to pay for the ever-increasing petrol and energy costs. To say nothing of our dependency on the stuff.

In order to maintain their integrity in terms of Israeli inventions and developments, the following video will provide them with just a few things they really must boycott and/or bin forthwith.

Whilst they're pondering matters Israeli, it might also be worthwhile to figure out just how come Yasser Arafat became so fabulously wealthy, why he owned a private plane; why he built a casino in Jericho rather than the hospital promised to his people. Or even why he refused every offer made by Israel - including pretty much ALL the Palestinians wanted, plus a $30 billion compensation package.

Incidentally, compensation was never offered to the near-million Jews thrown out of Arab countries from 1950's onwards. These people had all their assets seized, arriving as penniless refugees in either Israel or wherever else would have them. Ditto the net result of the partitions in India and Cyprus.

16 November 2009 at 16:15  
Anonymous Saul Solomon said...

Penny, this thread is not about discussion of the whole middle east peace process, anti zionists etc.( desptite some attempts to do so).

We are discussing the validity of a TV programme on a third rate channel which no -one in Britain really watches, regarding the strength (or lack of it ) of the Israeli lobby in the UK.

16 November 2009 at 16:22  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Jeremy Hyatt,

If you had read His Grace's post carefully, or bothered to 'do your research' (which requires no research beyond a superficial reading of the words on a screen), you might have discovered that the 'Global Jewish Conspiracy' was the theme of the C4 blog relating to this programme, not one which His Grace levels at the programme itself (which is still to be broadcast).

Perhaps an apology...

16 November 2009 at 16:32  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

I have to say that I stopped watching dispaches when it seemed that every other week it was a story about the credit crisis or 'greed bankers' populist tat. I might watch this, but it depends on if I have a better offer....

BTW- Yes of course we should support Israel, but sometimes even good friends do need to disagree sometimes.

16 November 2009 at 16:34  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

I'll apologise when you give a long overdue apology for your one eyed dissembling on the Israel/Palestine topic.


Thought not...

By the way - ever heard of the word insinuation? The serious response to your point is that the whiff of insinuation hangs heavily over the posting as regards the programme - the Israel lobby lacks the courage to call its critics anti-semites because to do so is defamatory and they would lose - they thus become the masters of insinuation.

Have a nice day.

16 November 2009 at 16:44  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

"Are you being purposely obtuse?"

Perhaps a little bit - I don't think for a moment that the problems of Israel and the Middle East will ever be addressed by direct approaches which try and paint one side or the other as black or white. If you look more closely at Channel 4 or the Guardian (or Israeli society or even some Arab countries) you will find currents running against the stream of opinion on this matter - it is actually these obtuse individuals who will bring about change in the end - since they have a better chance of convincing the zealots than their direct opponents. Nearly everything else tens to be equivalent to throwing petrol on a fire.

16 November 2009 at 16:57  
Anonymous Fiddler on the roof said...

Do I detect that Jeremy Hyatt has a chip on his shoulder as he does seem a bit short tempered with our host ?

16 November 2009 at 16:59  
Anonymous Bag Lady said...

So what is Jeremy Hyatt's view on the Arab -Israeli conflict then?

16 November 2009 at 17:04  
Anonymous jezzer hyatt said...

Fiddler - a chip??? Nothing so vulgar. With apologies to Posh Nosh I have a a flayed swordfish and guava millefeuille on my shoulder.

I quite like chips though. With mayonnaise or salt and vinegar. All the same to me

wv: delie - almost Delia. It's a sign!!! :-O

16 November 2009 at 17:05  
Blogger Hank Petram said...

We don't get Channel 4 where I live, so whatever allegations, true or false, are made about the Jews taking over this, that or the other, are something I shan't need to bother about this evening.

What worries me is that the Middle East gives every sign of drifting into war, maybe not this year but it can't be very far off, unless the people of Iran should suddenly find themselves enabled, some time very soon, to free themselves from the yoke of the ayatollahs. The race is on.

16 November 2009 at 17:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is Jeremy Hyatt anyway- another labour troll ?

16 November 2009 at 17:18  
Anonymous Crocodile shoes said...

Hank , I have the same problem with Channel 5, you just can't get reception for it at all !

16 November 2009 at 17:21  
Blogger D. Singh said...

And there you have it a clear example of Left-liberal paternalistic racism:

' it is actually these obtuse individuals who will bring about change in the end - since they have a better chance of convincing the zealots than their direct opponents. Nearly everything else tens to be equivalent to throwing petrol on a fire.'

In other words, these A-rabs and Israelis are thick; they won't understand the subtle approach.

16 November 2009 at 17:26  
Blogger white rabbit said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

16 November 2009 at 17:31  
Anonymous Noah Hamburger said...

" the whiff of insinuation hangs heavily over the posting as regards the programme "

Well as the programme has not even been broadcast yet ,isn't everyone's opinion on it "insinuation" ????

16 November 2009 at 17:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Israelis & Palestians are people first.When someone from either "side" does wrong or right then the action in context, not the nationality or ethicnicity should be judged. Friends don't encourage friends or enemies to do wrong. It grieves God, harms the victim & the wrong-doer.Wrongs harm people whom our Lord loves.
While in the US, very few dare to criticise any Isreali action because there is a payback. In churches & outside, criticism of an Isreali action or of disrimination towards Muslims often gets misinterpreted or falsely labelled as extremist. In the UK the bias is different. Being one-sided misrepresents our Lord Jesus.
When Jewish or Palestinian believers in Jesus in Israel suffers discrimination or attack from an Israeli or Palestian, who reports such incidents & how often? They happen(do a google) & are underreported. Ditto incidents against messianic Jews in the US. Isrealis, Palestians, Jews, gentiles - all are human.They make good, bad & morally neutral choices.Under threat stress or disputes we all have watch what we do and say. We are called to pray for Israel as Christians but also for all people.If we care about Israel, we can't support any of their policies which are wrong, but must support policies which are right & not meddle too much. Ditto for Palestians. I don't think it's right to either defend or attack every Isreali or Palestinian act. Racism is wrong.
The Jews have suffered throughout history in terrible ways, but so have other groups.I have been shocked/disappointed that(without picking on anyone)MPs & government brought in laws similar to some of what happened to Jewish people under nazi rule even though some have Jewish relatives who suffered greatly or were murdered.
Why have they & some others not shouted from the rooftops & opposed(let alone drafted)such laws against the British people? Any government members or anyone else who rightly hate anti-semitism or other discrimination BUT who are not speaking up or who are actively enabling totalitarian measures in the UK, US or anyone else..please could you look at whether actions are right or wrong including whether they are totalitarian & and not be blinded by who is doing them or to whom.
Google the POCA powers police raid in Hampstead,I'm not blaming any individals involved.I don't know who made what decisions &why. But was that any different to a Nazi-type raid for the many innocent Jewish/non-Jewish box holders? Where is the sustained national outcry over the measures allowing this? Pity the policemen encouraged to do this.See the treatment of the people of Chagos? Power tends to corrupt, whether in the hands of an Isreali, Palestinian or any other person.
Countries, politicians & people take sides in some disputes, but as Christians we honor our Lord when we try to be as fair as possible. Evil increases disputes. Our Lord cannot bless evil. Any person, business or country which actively help immoral incidents, whether terrorism, purposeful obviously unnecesssary over-broad laying of landmines or torture harms itself & risks judgement from our Lord, regardless of the ethnicity/nationality/religion of the victims. If judgement falls on a nation, the innocent & the poor & vulnerable are disproportionally affected.
I think both the Guardian & the Telegraph carry some good as well as some biased articles. No newspaper covers all topics its readers would like to hear about or which are 100% fair, complete, accurate & balanced. Reporters, commentators & readers are not perfect like God, and advertising, lobbying, pr & libel pressures can distort new, and they need support as well as criticism where readers thinks that articles or bias is wrong.

16 November 2009 at 17:34  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Anonymous said...
Who is Jeremy Hyatt anyway- another labour troll ?


Especially from a platform of anonymity.

And no I don't vote Labour.

16 November 2009 at 17:35  
Blogger Dead Eye said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

16 November 2009 at 18:27  
Blogger Christopher Evans said...

The only people I hear being anti semitic are Muslims, but when the word gets thrown around it is always unspecific like some kind of open insult or accusation. I think this is why it induces a sever yawning reaction from me.

Personally I couldn't give a shite about Jews one way or the other, they simply do not rank in my world of things worth thinking about. But it gets harder and harder not to wish that they would either be specific about who it is that hates them, or spare the rest of us from any continual whining and narcissistic self-indulgent display of self importance and self pity.

If I came in here every day moaning about all the people that upset me on a daily basis, it would not improve my likability factor would it because most of us have enough of our own problems without having to listen to the insignificant accusations of insignificant pillocks.

I don't even think that I know any Jews, and this is why it is soooooo bloody boring having to listen to all this anti semetic crap, you know, who are these people that everyone hates so much that I don't even know a single one in my life?

I could be wrong here, but the impression I get from the media is that Muslims in general have a low opinion of Jews, but walk around my world for a few years and see how many times anyone in my life even mentions Jews. It's just soooo bloody boring - change the subject please.

16 November 2009 at 18:32  
Anonymous len said...

From a spiritual perspective, Great Britain was entrusted by the God of History with the restoration of His ancient covenant people, the Jews, to the Land that He had promised their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as an everlasting inheritance. The Balfour Declaration, which became a legal obligation under the Mandate awarded to Britain by the League of Nations, provided the opportunity for Britain to become the major facilitator of the Lord's purpose in the restoration of Israel. Sadly, because of political expedience in appeasing a militant Arab nationalist movement, duplicity in her dealings with both Arabs and Jews, and even treachery towards the Jewish people, Britain became instead the major obstacle in the fulfilment of the purposes of God. In addition to causing the wholesale misery of many thousands of Jewish people who were turned away from the shores of Palestine in the 1930s and 40s, the British reneging of the Balfour Declaration was also responsible for the deaths of an untold number of Jews who could have escaped Hitler's Final Solution, had they been able to find refuge in their ancient homeland.

Like so many other nations and empires that have opposed God's Chosen People throughout history, the decline of Great Britain can be attributed to the Lord's assurance to Abraham: "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you." (Genesis 12:3).

16 November 2009 at 18:46  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Why has this comment thread come to a halt? We need some action round here.

What business is it of the EU to advise us of what is and what isn’t racism?

The Israelis have made a fundamental mistake. Sarkozy impelled them to join the Union for the Mediterranean (the EU holds co-presidency). Like Blair and Brown they believe that they will be able to influence such an organisation.

Take a look at Psalm 83 and the ten nations mentioned there - they have never before come into a confederacy - that indicates it is for the future (the reason why the ten crowns are removed from the ten horns (in Revelation) is because those ten nations are fighting a war on the behalf of the super-powers - as per usual).

Think about it. The EU needs the natural resources that the A-rabs hold (so do the ‘kings‘ of the East). It is willing to sacrifice Israel.

16 November 2009 at 19:42  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'(the reason why the ten crowns are removed from the ten horns (in Revelation) is because those ten nations are fighting a war on the behalf of the super-powers...'

The ten nations lose (the 'King' of Jordan is rescued (Daniel)).

That impels the super-powers to intevene.

16 November 2009 at 19:54  
Blogger D. Singh said...

In Daniel, 'the Kings of the North and the South' battle it out.

It is 'Shia' v. 'Sunni' war.

Think about it. Both of the major factions in the region want to deliver Jerusalem to the Moslem world.

Jerusalem is the prize.

16 November 2009 at 19:57  
Blogger Miss Snuffleupagus said...

Ha ha... Watching Dispatches, I immediately thought of you, Your Grace, and jumped on here to ask whether you were watching it. And I found this blog post (of course)...

It makes me smile that I should know you so well, while not knowing you at all.

16 November 2009 at 20:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christopher Evans@18:32
Jewish people have suffered persecution & mistreatment, so
Jewish people fear anti-semitism. So have other groups including Christians, sometimes to their death or their ability to live everyday life, enjoy family life, friendship & interract with their wider community without being ostrsized, midjuged, criminalised or attacked, including the ability work and put food on the table. Discrimination is a continuum which ends in death.
I have known people of many religions, ethnicities & nationalities. I have witnessed some people of different ethnic, national & religious origin who are not racist. I have also seen some Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, agnostics, new-agers, atheists as well as some British, American & other nationalites stigmaitizing others, including those of their own "goups".
I have known & seen people from different "classes", cultures, sociological & income groups who are not discriminatory, who generally relate kindly to others for who they are (not their background, status or physical characteristics). I have also known others who don't. Not all Muslims are as religious as others, some are born in cultures with differing cultural and historical expressions of Islam. There is no one-size-fits all Muslim (or Jew or atheist).
As a bible-believing Christian, I do not believe that someone is born a Christian, they make that choice to follow Jesus. Yet many British, American & people from other countries think that the behavior of American or British governments or people is a reflection of Christianity. The state is not the same as the population or the individual.

If you have ever been bullied by anyone to the extent that you suffered a terrible or long-term loss to you or your loved-ones (sometimes not reciverable in this life), for any reason (in a personal dispute or because of something about you the bully used as an excuse - age, weight, colour of skin, religion, colour of hair, accent, nationality, the way you were dressed or looked) then that experience would be similar in effect to the effect of anti-semitism or any other severe discrimination. Having said that, ill thought through laws and schemes to reduce stigma or discrimination can increase discrimination and wreck community & all "discrimination" is not discrimination.
Preferring Arsenal over Manchester United is not the same as beating up anyone who supports Arsenal or who does not support Manchester United. Some people love their own country. That is not the same as looking down on every other country nor is it is same as purposely harming other countries. Critisizing a country's action is not the same as discrimmination.
Some people are more comfortable with people of their own class or locality becuase of familiarity amongst other things. That is not discrimination in the sense of the evil of anti-semitism or the equivalent against other groups.
If there were a spate of crime by a group of Goths in a town, people would likely be guarded about Goths they don't know and have to fight the human temptation to discriminate aginst Goths.
Also kids discriminate, and their parents hopefully teach them not to. But not all kids calling an indiviual something bad is abnormal - kids quarrel & also copy things on tv or in the playground or at home. That is different from training kids to
hate Jews or Muslims or other groups.
If I insulted you or anyone, I apoligise. It is a rightly sensitive topic & if you don't know what it is like to be stigmatized or see its effects, you are blessed.
Also D.Singh re the thread -I experienced blogging errors.

16 November 2009 at 20:14  
Blogger Hank Petram said...

Mr Singh, Rather than either Daniel or Revelation, may I (with all due respect) recommend the Book of Debka as a guide to the terrible events that may shortly befall the Middle East.

Top US intelligence teams in Israel to discuss Iran

Two high-ranking teams of American CIA and DIA intelligence officials are conferring with their opposite numbers in Israel, in line with President Barack Obama’s strategy for applying military heat to Iran as well as diplomatic pressure for an accommodation on its nuclear program [. . .]

Political, military and intelligence integration between the US and Israel on this comprehensive scale has been practically unknown in recent years. It serves the dual purpose of a demonstration of close American-Israel military cooperation while at the same time safeguarding the Obama administration against Israeli surprise moves in relation to Iran.

Sunday, Nov. 15, President Obama and Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said in Singapore that time was running out for diplomacy to resolve the crisis over Iran’s nuclear program. Medvedev added that if discussions failed to yield results, “other means” could be used.

Read on, Mr. Singh!

16 November 2009 at 20:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But you don't bless the state of Israel by relating to it is if it never makes a mistake or does wrong.
On those occasions when the state mistreats Palestinians (who also descend from Abraham), it is not blessing Israel to say fine or to encourage it. That is not healthy or kind friendship.
God hates any sinful decision by anyone - Britain, Israeil or Palestian.
It does not honour our Lord before anyone to be one-sided. There are grievances and deep wounds on all sides.Surely as Christians we wish to be friends to Israel and to Palestinians.

16 November 2009 at 20:33  
Blogger D. Singh said...



I don't want to be around.

You got that?

16 November 2009 at 20:38  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Well Your Grace I watched 'Dispatches'.

What the Israelis have done I approve of; what the A-rabs are about to do to British politicians is spectacular.

Money talks; British politicians walk.

16 November 2009 at 21:13  
Blogger Hank Petram said...

Mr. Singh, You speak as one who has completed his arrangements for going into hiding, "in caves, and in thickets, and in rocks, and in high places, and in pits." (1 Sam. 13:6)

16 November 2009 at 21:15  
Blogger Hank Petram said...

Mr. Singh, I was referring to your post at 20:38, not your later one. By the way, if it's not imposing unduly on your good will, would you care to give me a very brief rundown on the programme and your reactions to it? (We don't get Channel 4 here.)


16 November 2009 at 21:20  
Anonymous Knighthawk said...

I've been watching the C4 Dispatches programme. When there is friction with donors due to a conflict of interests, it is difficult to see how any political party receiving substantial donations from individuals or lobby groups is going to put the interests of Britain above its own needs to ensure ongoing funding.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

The Jews may not “rule the world” but neither it would seem do the elected politicians. This calls into question the whole ethics of party funding.

16 November 2009 at 21:38  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Petram,

Of course.

The central thrust was that British politicians were being bought of by the Israelies.

The implication, not implied, is that the A-rabs with more fiscal power are going to do a better job.

Three things follow:

1. Get into parliament;
2. The A-rabs will double or triple your money;
3. Britain is locked into the EU - and ensures Israel's destruction.

16 November 2009 at 21:39  
Blogger Hank Petram said...

Thank you, Mr Singh, that's very clear. Just one additional question, if I may: your final point, "and ensures Israel's destruction" -- is it your impression that the makers of the programme would regard this as a Bad Thing or a Good Thing?

16 November 2009 at 21:45  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

I have to confess (and seek absolution from his grace) that I did not bother to watch this programme. Instead I went to my village Public House, which along with the Church and village shop is the centre of our community. I have to say it was much more agreeable and necessary than watching a Channel 4 programme (oh I did try Channel 4 plus 1- part of the modernisation of my estate has been to install 'digital' TV, along with a dishwasher over the weekend, but the show was halfway through and you know it is difficult to pick things up half way). Anyhow I ended up watching 'Numbers' on Five USA, which is much more of an agreeable programme to watch after a hard days work and you can pick it up quickly.

I guess I shall be paying penance at the weekend by watching the "x" factor, which is really the worst drivel on TV and possibly this would be my idea of "hell" (other than devils with pitchforks).

Anyway back to the thread, which is not so much about Israel as the power of lobbying firms. Now why is it that the green fundamentalists, the socialist pro-European union people and the gay rights lobby all having formidable lobby groups, yet we never have a documentary about their 'powers'. Why does the Guardian not ever worry about their undue influence? Why? And why does everyone just have a go at Israel? It is because the liberal elite does not support Israel and they are seen as "fair game " in the hierarchy of 'rights'.

Not a very intelligent or erudite contribution to the discourse, but we cannot all be philosopher Kings or have the great knowledge of the Bible that Mr D Singh has (I am grateful for his synopsis of the show, but you seem to have missed out point 3?).

16 November 2009 at 22:01  
Blogger Christopher Evans said...


I am inclined to echo Miss Snuffle person. This Dispatches programme has place a rather huge question mark over your motives for me. I have always had deep suspicions, which occasionally thinned a bit sometimes, but much of what you have ever said is being re-written in my mind. I remember having strange thoughts about your criticisms of Christian Aid, and this programme has me feeling slightly sick.

Word verification = lavorat

16 November 2009 at 22:11  
Anonymous Williams said...

Here we go again. D Singh on his rant about how the EU is satan and it all starts the second coming as per daniel and revelation. Do you really believe all that guff or is it a show to get readers going?

16 November 2009 at 22:16  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Christopher Evans, Sir, what are you implying or trying to say? Are you disparaging our gracious host ?

16 November 2009 at 22:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lord Lavendon, I don't think you are a fool, but what's my opinion compared to that of thousands of others?

16 November 2009 at 22:30  
Anonymous len said...

Anon 20:33 The Creator of this planet chose out a man about 4,000 years ago, and named him Abraham (father of many), and made a covenant with him to give him the land known as Canaan, even from the river Euphrates to the river of Egypt, the Nile.

Then God confirmed this covenant with Abraham's son, Isaac, and finally reconfirmed it with Isaac's son, Jacob, and to his seed after him for an everlasting possession; promising that as long as the ordinances of the sun, the moon, and the stars, remained before Him, even so the Jews shall remain a people before Him.

16 November 2009 at 23:11  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

Sorry to lay the troofer thing on you all, but have you not mostly forgotten something very important?

It does not, or certainly should not matter whether a given statement is decreed from above to be sexist, racist, ageist, anti-semitic, or not. What matters is that the statement is wholly TRUE, or not.

The facts matter, far more then we have been brainwashed to believe. Because without the true facts, an opinion is potentially at least far worse then worthless.


Where the true, and full facts are commonly known, there is little need, or margin for disagreement. Wars and conflicts would very rarely take place, especially these days, while certain very powerful people would not make off with such an incredibly large amount of easy loot, and absolute power for themselves.

The truth is, that very few if any know the full unadulterated facts of the matter. Those that do, are determined not to let on, for fairly obvious reasons. Still less will they allow their very own personal propagandists and consistent providers of vile dis-information, The BBC, to give us so much as a substantial clue.

However with a little research the likes of which Oborne seems not to have bothered with, it can be seen that Zionism is not wholly or even predominately a Jewish political ideology or indeed theology.

It is simply dangerously incorrect to equate the existence of The State of Israel with only Jewish Zionists, never mind ordinary Jewish people as a whole.

Yes, it is all done behind closed doors, on a strictly need to know basis, and subject to the deepest of high internationalist, and inter-religious conspiracies. AS is virtually everything else, especially things more commonly known as historical mistakes, accidents, and sometimes even acts of God.

Therefore to single out Jews or Judaism as THE problem, is just plain WRONG yet again, and very dangerously so. Not just for those like myself, but for all who are so systematically mislead.

16 November 2009 at 23:37  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Yo your Grace,

Well i watched and was sickened by the weakness and the toadying of our MP`s and institutions which my taxes are paying them gold and they will dance to any tune and the Zionists have gold aplenty it seems....

16 November 2009 at 23:49  
Anonymous Convinced Anglican said...

I am Stan: "the Zionists have gold aplenty it seems...."

Unfortunately not as much as Nu Labour's best friend Saudi Arabia Stan.

Strange how the much-vaunted 'Zionist global conspiracy' of the 1930s failed to save 6 million. Looks like all the 'gold' in the world is powerless against determined genocide.

Your Grace: I am saddened that there is so much uninformed hatred on this thread. Penny is of course correct. The Jewish people have contributed more, in proportion to their numbers, in human progress, knowledge and invention, in the fields of medicine, science, philosophy, and now IT, than any other race/religious grouping in the world.

Interesting that the fiction 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', conceived and disseminated by Tsarist Russia, is a best seller in Islamic bookshops in Britain and taught as fact in Islamic Middle East.

Illuminating that anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, Jew hatred, has again surfaced in Britain in the recent past. Instructive that Nu Labour has operated a deliberate policy of imposing 'multiculturalism' on a sleeping populace.

Not too surprising perhaps that whole swathes of Britain have been colonised and transformed by millions of unproductive Muslim immigrants whose 'leaders' are vocal in their perceived victim-hood.

In all the talk of Israel persecuting Palestinians, few mention that 70% of the land mass which was designated Palestine (but has no historical record of being a nation or a state) was given by the British to Jordan.

Do your anti-Israel contributors know that Saudi, Jordan, Egypt, Syria et al are all Judenrein? That no Jew is permitted to buy property, settle or apply for citizenship in these Islamic states.

Are they aware that Jordan even refuses citizenship to those Arab brothers (latterly named Palestinian in 1973 by Arafat). Instead, in direct contrast to every civilized nation in the world they have kept their Arab brothers and sisters in refugee camps for 60 years.

Do the 'haters' ever wonder why Egypt has built a wall to protect their country against the inhabitants of Gaza?

Do they ever ask themselves why the Arab nations surrounding present day Israel refused to recognise that tiny state in 1948 but instead attacked and kept on attacking?

Why Arab residents were told to leave on pain of being regarded as traitors (executed) and promised an immediate return by their leaders?

A 'return' to the desert that Zionists had worked to turn into a place where flowers bloomed.

It would appear to me that some here are intellectually flaccid. How easy to absorb all the nasty anti-Israel/Jewish propaganda while the mosques grow and tower over their English borough. It will be too late when they wake up.

No Jew has been guilty of fomenting civil strife, spitting and howling at our soldiers, openly advocating a Jewish state in Britain or demanding British law be changed to accommodate their religion.

NO. Islam is the 5th column, all those black-garbed, faceless, non-English speaking women making their silent political statement while their arrogant, male 'minders' openly predict an Islamic Britain.

That is NOT and, for 2,000 years, has never been the Jewish way. Israel (the government) has erred, as have all democratic governments in the world. But, in contrast to Nu Labour, they defend their people and their borders. It seems everybody in the world has the right to that self-defence - except the Jews of course!

17 November 2009 at 01:42  
Anonymous not a machine said...

your grace may be interested to read science article in the times "the sun what won it"

I do believe in climate change being man made but you have to admit this article does have an interesting theory behind it .

time to stock up on blankets .

17 November 2009 at 01:59  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Convinced Anglican @ 01:42.
How very well said.

17 November 2009 at 02:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ends don't justify means..we should not play God.
Palestians and Israelis need somewhere to live - they are people.
I don't know what the solution is but surely it must be one which is as merciful and just to both parties as is possible.

17 November 2009 at 06:20  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Hank @ 9.45 pm

They did not explore the question.

17 November 2009 at 07:43  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Lord Lavendon

'point 3' is an error.

17 November 2009 at 07:48  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Petram

I have made no arrangments to go into hiding.

However, we are commanded to pray that we might be worthy to esacpe what is to come.

17 November 2009 at 07:51  
Blogger D. Singh said...


The number of people who have hit my blog has reached an astonishing 1400 in a very short space of time.

17 November 2009 at 07:58  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Some people can't help themselves but point at the bearded lady.

17 November 2009 at 08:39  
Blogger D. Singh said...


(Setting aside 'D. Singh')

It would be really appreciated if you could post critically penetrating analyses?

Think of it; you would be greatly admired.

17 November 2009 at 08:44  
Anonymous Williams said...

D Singh you don't have a blog or at least one which everyone can read, however, I take it from this answer is that you don't really believe all the extreme views you come out with , you are really here as a character to get people posting.

As for asking people to "post critically penetrating analyses", that is every rich coming from yourself. You have controversial views, but I am unable to see that this equals "penetrating analyses" (see point above)

17 November 2009 at 08:52  
Blogger D. Singh said...


I'm 'not permitted' to have a blog. I can't go into the reasons.

I just wish that I was as clever as all you other posters - that's all.

17 November 2009 at 08:58  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Convinced Anglican-Your Grace: I am saddened that there is so much uninformed hatred on this thread.

I pray that you are not reffering to me in those comments,I care not from whom the Gold comes what I do care about is that OUR MP`s and Institutions are being BRIBED and bullied by various countries to turn a blind eye to their law breaking and aggression.

This time the focus is on the Israel lobby and as usual any kind of negative opinion is met with wails of hatred! and reminders of past injury to the Jews..

So we have to be silent do we and insist that Zionism is all lovely and pure..

meanwhile children get shot dead..palestinian land is stolen by force,and a people are held hostage and half starved..but hey dont say anything because that would mean your an antisemite

Obviously convinced anglican is happy for our lords and masters to be controled in such a manner but I am not.

17 November 2009 at 09:03  
Anonymous Williams said...

D Singh, you are too modest. You might told some extreme views (from my perspective) but you do have a good grasp of the Bible and that requires intelligence.

17 November 2009 at 09:07  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

I am Stan, Sir, I think you are confused. The Israel lobby is just one of many who attempt to engage ministers and MPs of their particular issues. The Trade Unions, business, the environmentalists, gay rights, farmers and many other groups all have their lobby as well. Thus the Israel lobby works within a plural system, where many voices are raised and different views held. They do not have a monopoly on MPs or Ministers time and intelligence, but have to complete along with other groups for that and they are not doing anything that the TUC or CBI does not do.

Further, it is not a matter of 'bribery', but a matter of one particular organisation wanting to organise themselves to present their view. Bribery is illegal and indeed I believe that an MP was gaoled for being given cash for asking questions in the house.
But is it not illegal to raise issues on behalf of groups in the house or for ministers to meet organised groups on particular issues or to accept campaign funds- providing they are transparent and a matter of public record (which is how C4 got the information in the first place).There are clear conflict of interests or need to declare an interest rules should question and debates be held in Parliament.

I cannot see , therefore , what the issue is , other than it objectionable to some that the Israel lobby is a smart, slick operation- or good at what it is supposed to do. Not sure what is wrong with that.

17 November 2009 at 09:29  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

D Singh, don't listen or be goaded by the labour-trolling peasants. You have a good grasp of the Holy Bible and I think you are quite erudite and intelligent.

17 November 2009 at 09:32  
Blogger I am Stan said...

@Lord Lavendon said...

I have to confess (and seek absolution from his grace) that I did not bother to watch this programme.

Lord Lavendon...there may not be an issue for you but there is for me..

the fact that our quite possibly future leader and his party are being bribed..yes bribed with donations hand over fist,and bullied by an aggressive lobby group that does not have this countrys welfare in mind but exists mainly to keep the incumbent or future guvmint sweet and cowed while it continues to KILL CHILDREN and steal land I think is an issue

and I am not confused about that as you so patronisingly suggest.You may continue to congratulate each other on how clever you believe yourselves to be
and make excuses for our MP`s being controlled by foreign powers,I and I hope many others will object.

Yes I am AWARE of other lobby groups but this comment is focused on only one.
Perhaps you would be advised to watch a programme before making uniformed comments about it.

17 November 2009 at 09:58  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

I am Stan ,Sir, my response is :

Watching the programme was not relevant to the thrust of my post, in that the Israel lobby is one of many, many lobbies and pressure groups.

I was not making uniformed comments about a Channel 4 programme because my own thrust had nothing to do with that show .I was making a response to your post.

It is only the liberal- left that has an 'thing' with the Israel lobby- why not go on about how the so called green lobby has a stranglehold on government policy, to a far greater degree and who are far more powerful than the Israeli one ?

I am pleased to note your concern over "foreign powers " ruling the land. So you agree with me that we should withdraw from the EU?

17 November 2009 at 10:21  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

D Singh

"In other words, these A-rabs and Israelis are thick; they won't understand the subtle approach."

And there you have the Goebbels approach to politics - if you are going to tell a lie tell a big one. This is of course the opposite of what I actaully said i.e.

"If you look more closely at Channel 4 or the Guardian (OR ISRAELI SOCIETY OR EVEN SOME ARAB COUNTRIES) you will find currents running against the stream of opinion on this matter - it is actually these obtuse individuals who will bring about change in the end"

17 November 2009 at 10:25  
Blogger D. Singh said...

"Are you being purposely obtuse?"

Perhaps a little bit...

17 November 2009 at 10:28  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'Faithful are the wounds of a friend.'

17 November 2009 at 10:36  
Blogger I am Stan said...

@Lord Lavendon-I am pleased to note your concern over "foreign powers " ruling the land. So you agree with me that we should withdraw from the EU?

Yes your Lordship I agree absolutely that we should withdraw from the EU.

I do not agree however that it is only the liberal left that has a ¨thing¨ with the Israel lobby,from what i have seen and heard it is far more widespread than that,as was demonstrated on Despatches.

When you wrote.. ¨Which is how C4 got its information in the first place¨ reference to funds being handed over I believe you were refering to the fact they found it very difficult to get that kind of information.

My issue is their motives and their methods as I have already stated.

If you are not in favour of the EU having control over our MP`s and institutions why not have issue with Israel having that control..perhaps you could tell me .

I am aware of other lobby groups but I am focusing on one at the moment..seeing as international law is being broken and children are being starved,denied proper medical care and shot dead....the others can wait their turn for now...

17 November 2009 at 11:06  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Bag Lady said...
So what is Jeremy Hyatt's view on the Arab -Israeli conflict then?


That justice should be done to the Palestinians.

I recently saw a clip from the bombardment of Gaza. In the West, to quote T.S.Eliot, the media seems to live by the maxim 'human kind cannot bear too much reality'. We were sheltered from much of what happened. I doubt I will ever forget one image: a carbonised dead baby. He/she was holding out his/her arms as if in supplication (in fact I know that it is a consequence of extreme heat contracting musculature).

What had that child done wrong? Apart from being in the way of the zionist project?

Nothing to add.

17 November 2009 at 18:50  
Anonymous Bag Lady said...


Thank you . It is nice to hear a different, non right wing view on this matter; suffering is terrible and I just don't understand why some Christians don't see it this way (I am a Jew by upbringing).

It is like the Vicar who gave me shelter and the Church who helped me get a new home and life. Judging from some comments here, they would rather see homelessness or injustice to Palestine than do anything positive, thanks to a strange view of the Bible (like the Christian "right" in America).

Look at 'Christian Socialist' was hounded out of this blog. You can't even debate these people without being called a 'troll' (which really makes new readers feel the warmth).

Bless you!

17 November 2009 at 19:08  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Thank you Bag Lady - That's very kind. I think it's necessary - although no route to popularity round here - to point out that not all Christians are bigots, homophobes or fans of injustice wherever it manifests itself.

Heigh ho...

wv: bistros - which sounds a good idea right now.

17 November 2009 at 19:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bag Lady@19:08
Sorry to hear you suffered and glad someone was kind to you.

What do you mean by the 'Christian "right""?
Believing in the bible is not the same as being bible-bashing or being fundamentalist.
Opposing Christian liberals who put tradition or their personal fads over clear doctrines of the bible is not the same as being part of whatever the religious right is, including in America.

I too think Christian socialist gets hounded sometimes,in ways which are sometimes unkind but he also does some hounding himself sometimes.

17 November 2009 at 19:51  
Anonymous Bag lady said...

Anon @ 19.51. Oh labels are so divisive and I am sorry for using these crude tags ! I really mean those who give Yisrael unconditional support, without looking at the suffering of ordinary people.

I am not a 'liberal' Christian and I fully accept the Church of England's doctrine, The Bible as the supreme word of Adoni, that Christ died for the sins of the world, that he rose again and that he is active in the world via the Holy Spirit. It is also the Christian calling to spread the good news of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth and to evangelise.

But I also believe in the God of justice, which is why I pray every day for a just and peaceful agreement for the conflict in the middle east to end. I am no politician or theologian. I am not intelligent or gertrude, but I believe in God's power to achieve this end.

I cannot add anymore than that.

17 November 2009 at 20:05  
Anonymous Adrian Peirson said...

This revealation should feature into the discussion.
Apparently, and it's now confirmed by many US Congressmen, both the US Federal Reserve and the Bank of England are PRIVATE Companies.
We stupid Goyim, borrow worthless bits of paper at full face value and at interest.
If we coined our own, there would be no borrowing, no debt, hence no need for Income Tax.

Stung again folks.

The Rothschilds Exposed

17 November 2009 at 21:37  
Anonymous Jimmy shoes said...

Adrian Peirson

But doesn't the US treasury produce the coinage of the USA (unlike the BOE?) .

17 November 2009 at 23:34  
Anonymous Convinced Anglican said...

I am Stan: "So we have to be silent do we and insist that Zionism is all lovely and pure.."

Absolutely NOT. I was certainly not accusing you. I thought your statement was made ironically.

My response was to draw attention to identical conspiracy theories of the 1930s. Goebbels himself said: If you tell the people a lie often enough they will believe it as fact. The conspiracy theory was that the Jews used their wealth to manipulate goverments.

These are historical facts. I AM a Convinced Anglican and find it sad that so many here see Jews as a 5th column. I have studied the history of the ME but did not focus on the history of Islam until 9/11.

All I have alluded to is well-documented. Including the PLO 1973 declaration of a Palestinian nation.

I think it is detrimental to this country, to accept Arab/Muslim propaganda without a thorough investigation. The Jews are not colonising vast swathes of England. Islam is.

Yes, Palestinians have suffered greatly as a result of 60 years of violence. So have Israelis.

The difference being: Israel takes responsibility for its people. Palestinian leaders do not. Enough money has been poured into Palestinian coffers to provide a viable state. None of it has been spent on infrastructure or the people. FATAH leaders, latterly PLO terrorists, live in luxury; Arafat built a casino and died a wealthy man. Clearly terrorism pays.

This paternalism has contributed to the victim mentality so many Muslims exhibit. They have been given the notion that somebody else must take responsibility for their ills. No mention is ever made of the billions swishing around in Islamic oil states.

Nobody asks WHY those states do not integrate Palestinians. They have plenty of land. They are all, like Israel, new states. Saudi and Jordan are British constructs, Israel is a UN construct.

The difference? Israelis worked and built a thriving society. The Arabs sent out snipers, attacked with armies, complained when they lost, threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and let their citizens rot.

Is it not time that Arab nations be asked to take responsibility for their brothers? Is it not time for realistic assessment of the ME?

Instructive that Pakistan came into being at the same time as Israel. So too India. India, like Israel, is a thriving democracy. Pakistan is a hell-hole of feuding tribes; Muslims blowing up other Muslims and persecuting Christians and Hindus.

I think these are reasonable and realistic comparisons; 'like with like'. Indian has been plagued with Islamic/Pakistani militancy since its foundation. Israel has been plagued with Islamic/Arab militancy since its foundation.

Talk of Jews stealing Palestinian land has little relation to fact. Jews have lived in that area for over 2,000 years - so have Arabs. Many Jews are in traditional homes. Many Arab landlords sold land to the Zionists.

That said, in the carve-up, Arabs got the better deal - first Saudi Arabia (I think 1922) then, 70% of the British Mandate given to Hashmites. Why then do Arabs still covet the tiny portion of land left Israel?

European relativism and paternalism bear a huge responsibility. Political correctness forbid drawing attention to the huge gap between the wealth of the oil sheiks and the poverty of the people.

And all the while, Saudi Wahabbism is polluting England with fundamentalist politics and mosques. Islam, is not just a religion, it is an imperialistic political system.

Apologies again Stan. I clearly am at fault. Indeed, we have some things in common. I have concern for England, a country betrayed by a government in thrall to the oil sheiks.

18 November 2009 at 00:42  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Bag Lady

It is not that we do not see the suffering. We have been acquainted with suffering since the Fall.

The mistake that the previous generation of Judaeo-Christians committed was their ‘Evangelical Piety’.

Piety meant silence; silence meant that we peered at a dying and decaying world through the key-hole of locked church doors.

And all the time the liberal theologians were undermining our faith; the Left-liberals were introducing laws that drove us out of the public square; if we dared to contribute to debate we were mocked; if we dared to speak at Speakers Corner, we were spat at; if we took refuge in the church hall we were treated to another sermon on ‘Why football is a game of two-halves’.

We have been patient – yet our patience has been tested to its limits; we were asked to be tolerant yet in return intolerance is shown; we were slapped on the face and we presented the other cheek – and still our persecution continues.

We will not be silent; we will not be inactive.

We will once more contest the values of a morally relative world.

18 November 2009 at 08:35  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Convinced Anglican....thank you for your kind words and incisive comments....I think I need to clear a few things with you about myself,I have no issue with Jewish people per se I do not adhere to the 5 columnist paranoia and have no problem with the Jewish people protecting themselves.

I do not pretend to have an indepth knowledge of their or their regions history but eveytime I read comments such as yours and do research of my own I learn more.

My concern is the methods used to influence our MP`s and institutions and the extent thoose same MP`s etc allow themselves to be manipulated...and it is not just the Jewish lobby although I admit I am sickened by the constant deaths of the Palestinians who I know are not blameless but everything seems out of proportion...

In my nievety I was quite shocked by the
influence of the lobbyists and I think it is wrong.

18 November 2009 at 09:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'No-one claims, least of all Cranmer, that the State of Israel and its religio-political policies should not be rigorously examined and critically scrutinised, and some of the comments make legitimate, hard-hitting criticisms'

in fact, this is what he is a saying, since he objects to the channel 4 expose. SHAME bishop.


20 November 2009 at 02:39  
Anonymous Tabatha said...

You might like to note how the Dispatches team went about their 'research' for this programme.

Despite having months to work on it, they only informed the so-called 'israel lobby' at the last minute. And how did they do this?

Answer: Peter Oborne et al suddenly turned up at the office of Honest Reporting (a team that monitors media coverage of Israel) and *demanded* to be given an immediate interview with the head of the organisation.

The head of Honest Reporting apparently wasn't even in the building at the time. Guess his 'zionist' powers of telepathy weren't operating that particular day...

No group in the so-called 'israel lobby' was given proper time to craft any response TO the substance of the Dispatches show. Hardly fair play now, is it?


Some of your remarks are absurd, frankly. Yes, of course it's tragic when ANYONE gets killed - but you only lament the Palestinian Arab deaths.

Do tell me - where was your righteous indignation over previous years when thousands of Israelis were blown to bits by Hamas suicide bombs and missile attacks, hmmm....?

If Hamas doesn't give a damn how many Palestinians die because its terrorists make their base in civilian homes/schools/hospitals, then why do you expect Israel to care MORE...?

Direct your outrage where it belongs: at the acting Palestinian government IN Gaza: Hamas. Go and read its Charter.

Anyone who condemns Israel's right to defend itself, or MISrepresents it as 'aggression' or 'brutality', better go and live in a Muslim country.
Because if Israel can't respond to terrorism, that means NO nation can.

Finally: to the people who are so terribly 'bored' with hearing about anti semitism, a suggestion:

Rather than directing your anger at the Jews who *report* anti semitic attacks etc, perhaps you'd care to vent your frustration at the nasty little bigots who COMMIT the anti semitism to start with...?

Oh, and as some of you said you'd like SPECIFICS of what anti semitism in Britain involves, I'd be happy to oblige. Feel free to drop me a line and I'll furnish you with details. Maybe it'll be less 'boring' to you then.

For anyone who would like to read about how Dispatches has behaved towards Honest Reporting, just go to

When will we be seeing a programme about the SAUDI LOBBY, then...?

29 November 2009 at 10:25  
Anonymous Tabatha said...

Oh, and just to enlighten I AM STAN:

zionism = the belief that Israel has a right to EXIST

If you're going to malign something, at least learn how to correctly define it FIRST.

Re The Guardian:

The 'comment is free' forum has become a veritable paradise for the world's anti semites. Rabidly anti Jewish remarks are allowed to stand, to the point where another site has been created purely to monitor and counter this:

Some of you may be interested in this piece about ED HUSAIN, the poster boy for 'moderate' Islam:

29 November 2009 at 10:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English and France to the French".
- Mahatma Gandhi

15 January 2010 at 02:30  

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