Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Lord Monckton: Global Warming is a pretext for a One-World Government

Lord Monckton has warned the peoples of Europe and the United States that the forthcoming Copenhagen Summit in December will use ‘global warming’ hype as a pretext to lay the foundation for a one-world unelected ‘communist-style’ government with enormous powers.

Christopher, Lord Monckton is a business consultant, writer and former policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher. He told a Minnesota Free Market Institute audience at Bethel University in St. Paul, Minnesota on 14 October 2009:

‘At Copenhagen, this December, weeks away, a treaty will be signed — your president will sign it. Most of the third-world countries will sign it because they think they’re going to get money out of it. Most of the left-wing regimes around the world, like the European Union, will rubber-stamp it. Virtually nobody won’t sign it.

‘I have read that treaty and what it says is this: That a world government is going to be created. The word “government” actually appears as the first of three purposes of the new entity.

‘The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third-world countries in satisfaction of what is called, coyly, a “climate debt”, because we’ve been burning CO2 and they haven’t and we’ve been screwing up the climate. We haven’t been screwing up the climate, but that’s the line.

‘And the third purpose of this new entity, this government, is enforcement’, Lord Monckton added.

(Click here to watch the full speech and here to watch the concluding remarks)

The UN Framework Convention on Climate Change is a treaty that most world governments are expected to sign in Copenhagen in December 2009 – including Britain and the United States. Lord Monckton told Fox News that the 181-page working document of the treaty, which contains the word 'government' in its Annex I, paragraph 38, transfers enormous powers, greater than any other governments' powers, to the unelected bureaucratic entity, which will be in charge of managing the most important aspect of Western societies without elections and polls. It does not mention the words ‘election’, ‘ballot’, ‘elected official’ or ‘vote’ anywhere in it.

According to Lord Monckton, by signing this document, all the industrial countries, including the United Kingdom and the United States, will forever take responsibility for the ills of other countries.

Page 6 of the document states: ‘PP.15 Further acknowledging that developed countries have a historical responsibility for their disproportionate contribution to the causes and consequences of climate change, reflecting their disproportionate historical use of a shared global carbon space since 1850 as well as their proposed continuing disproportional use of the remaining global carbon space ... Warming of the climate system, as a consequence of human activity, is unequivocal.’

Page 38: ‘28. The adverse effects of climate change and response measures, due to the historical cumulative GHG emissions of developed countries, constitute an additional burden on all developing country Parties (particularly low-lying and other small island countries, countries with low-lying coastal, arid and semi-arid areas or areas liable to floods, drought and desertification, and developing countries with fragile mountainous ecosystems) in reducing poverty, developing strategies to address social vulnerabilities and attaining sustainable development and a threat to achieving the United Nations Millennium Development Goals.’

Page 122: ‘17. (a) Compensate for damage to the LDC's economy and also compensate for lost opportunities, resources, lives, land and dignity ...’

Page 27: ‘(b) Particularly vulnerable populations, groups and communities, [or] All vulnerable groups whose adaptive capacity is low, [or] Groups requiring special protection ...’

Page 43: ‘41. (a) Assessed contributions of at least 0.7% of annual GDP of developed country Parties.’ These funds will go directly to governments and ‘community organizations.’

Page 39: ‘33. [The financial burden] must be at least USD 67 billion (in the range of USD 70-140 billion) per year.’

The commitments of the developed countries are ‘economy wide.’ Page 58: ‘7. (a) Mitigation commitments by all developed countries are legally binding economy wide and absolute quantified emission reduction commitments.’

‘(b) Mitigation actions by developing countries are voluntary ...’ (emphasis added.)

(Click here to read the draft treaty)

Lord Monckton, who disputes whether global warming is man-made, has repeatedly challenged Al Gore to debate him on the science of global warming and asked the High Court to acknowledge nine of the innumerable of errors in Al Gore’s Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth. Addressing Mr Gore, Lord Monckton said, ‘And if you don’t dare, I want you to remain silent about that subject forever from now on.’ Mr Gore did not accept the challenge. Other scientists have also asked Mr Gore to debate the science of global warming and he has consistently refused to do so.

James Delingpole of The Daily Telegraph, wrote:

‘You have to be careful when talking about ‘One World Government’. Sooner than you can say “Bilderberg”, you’ll find yourself bracketed with all the crazies, and conspiracy theorists and 9/11 Truthers. But I don’t think you need to be mad to be concerned about the issues raised by Lord Monckton in this speech.

‘I don’t know how accurate he is on the specific details, but Monckton is certainly right in principle. The climate fear industry is, I believe, the single greatest threat to national sovereignty (as we’ve already seen under the EU, with its directives on carbon emissions, landfill etc) and individual liberty of our era.

‘I don’t believe in conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, the Climate Fear Industry isn’t a theory,' he added.

On 19 October 2009, the Prime Minister gave a speech to the Major Economies Forum in London. He said:

'In every era there are one or two moments when nations come together and reach agreements that make history because they change the cause of history, and Copenhagen must be such a time.'

And earlier, the Swedish EU Presidency said at the Washington DC meeting with President Obama that ‘the climate negotiations in Copenhagen must not fail’.

Of course, environmentalists are presently celebrating a second tribunal decision confirming that their strongly-held views on climate change deserve the same level of protection as religious faith. The Christian Legal Centre is persuaded that this is a clear sign of ‘social, moral and legal chaos’.

And they are not wrong.

Lord Monckton has glimpsed the New World Order. The media focus will be on the politics and the economics, while behind the scenes emerges the spiritual force of Gaia, the one-world religion, through which all mankind will be united whether or not they subscribe to ‘the Truth’ of its infallible orthodoxy and its doctrinal absolutes.


Blogger gyg3s said...

"The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third-world countries"

Bollocks. The transfer of wealth is from taxpayers in the West to global corporations. That is the purpose of the hijacked environmental movement.

11 November 2009 at 08:58  
Anonymous Martin Sewell said...

If any politician of the Right progressed from being a multi millionaire to a billionaire ( during a recession) flying the world in a Lear Jet, with a household carbon footprint larger than many villages, the mainstream media would be universally condemnatory. Yet he is lauded personally and encouraged to re-shape the world order without any critical analysis whatsoever. It is the western equivalent of the cargo cult.

11 November 2009 at 09:03  
Anonymous The Green witchfinder general said...

So crammy is a climate change denier eh ? Don't worry with the government holding every single peice of correspondence you have ever written being wired into a state database, we shall be able to keep tabs on all citizens . And make sure they do not deny the green religion its true status as the established church.

11 November 2009 at 09:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some greens do act like they are in a religion- just a
fundamentalist one; no scope for self crticisim, lots of holier than thou attitude and no room to conceed any point on their agenda is wrong.

Indeed the very phase 'climate change denier' makes one feel uneasy about the motivation of some of these people . I feel I would greatly benefit from a dedate between Lord Moncton and Gore.

All we often hear about green issues is one sided in the media and it would be nice to have the fors and againsts rather than accepting one side as the 'gospel' truth.

Also the attempts to make the world into a giant EU , is also disturbing. (Just don't encourage Cameron to make any 'cast iron' pledges on reversing this one .)

We are basically going down the path of turning Britain in to a giant windfarm, where the power goes out and in which we live like we did in medivial times. The priestly green caste (scientists as they used to be called) will interpret the new green religion for us and will stamp out any dissent, we probably need to call that the green inquisition.

11 November 2009 at 09:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just read the bible, world government is coming, global warming (not climate change)is one of the tools of manipulation and fear, just watch the advert on telly of a dad reading a story to his kid. You are being conditioned in what to think and how to speak, a lot of you are very niave whom contribute on this blog, leave your middle class world and step down into reality, leave your make believe world , your not really emailing a bishop, its just pretend. Preach the gospel, win souls and warn the world of what is surely coming, the mark is coming, one world gov is coming, a wonderful leader is waitng in the wings with answers to all the worlds problems, however his true colours will be revealed, the nations will gather against Israel over Jerusalem, including russia, and Israel will triumph, read the word,

11 November 2009 at 09:41  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Al Gore - the man poised to become the world's first carbon billionaire. The "scientific" consensus behind his fantasy fiction film, An Inconvenient Truth, has been thoroughly trashed so why do people hang on to the lying words of this nuclear detonation equivalent of a vested interest?

The AGW agenda is a communistic contruct designed to micromanage individual citizens. That Brown and his muppets should embrace it isn't all that surprising given that we are already the most controlled (through the legal bludgeon of political correctness) and surveilled society in the world. But what about the Tories? Through ignorance or design, Cameron has bought into this global disaster in the making and I'm not talking about anthropogenic global warming. He is hitching his horse to a politically driven, eco-nutball trainwreck of an agenda that will destroy western economies in a way that would have given Stalin wet dreams.

I followed this story when it broke over on Watts Up With That an AGW sceptic blog that contains a lot of real science and seriously p*sses of the likes of Joe Romm, James Hansen and Michael Mann, a few weeks ago. The report His Grace has linked to makes for some grim reading. Anyone who believes that taking action against AGW by demonising carbon dioxide, a trace gas vital to life on Earth, is about saving the planet is seriously deluded. They might as well begin to sequestrate DHMO, which makes up 95% of all the so called greenhouse gases.


Oh wait, the Earth already does just that...

11 November 2009 at 09:57  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I think I killed the html tag on the first link. Here it is again.


The DHMO conspiracy is every bit as real as the CO2 conspiracy. And wrapped up in pretty much the same way.

Enjoy. Oh and keep the salt handy. ;0)

11 November 2009 at 10:08  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As reported in the Wall Street Journal:

Lord Monckton himself only became aware of the extraordinary powers to be vested in this new world government when a friend found an obscure U.N. Web site and searched through several layers of hyperlinks before discovering a document that isn't even called the draft "treaty." Instead, it's labelled a "Note by the Secretariat."

Interviewed by broadcaster Alan Jones on Sydney radio Monday, Lord Monckton said "this is the first time I've ever seen any transnational treaty referring to a new body to be set up under that treaty as a 'government.' But it's the powers that are going to be given to this entirely unelected government that are so frightening." He added: "The sheer ambition of this new world government is enormous right from the start—that's even before it starts accreting powers to itself in the way that these entities inevitably always do."

11 November 2009 at 10:10  
Anonymous Thurston said...

In medieval England the climate was warm enough for grapes to ripen reliably every year and large numbers of vineyards and a thriving wine industry were established.

Who was responsible for that episode of global warming? The Great God Bacchus?

11 November 2009 at 11:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In Flanders Fields
by John McCrae, May 1915

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11 November 2009 at 11:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its not just global waming that is being misused - fear of terrorism, potecting the "vulnerable", fear of human and animal disease, health and safty etc to tag and watch and tax and control people. I am really worried about the copyright law stuff in the works including ACTA - I think it will also be used to watch, oppress and control including religious freedoms by the backdoor. I fear we need to memorise scriptuas our Lord taught the Isrealites to do, lest copyright be abused for the equivalent of book-burning.

11 November 2009 at 11:41  
Blogger TreeSleeper said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2009 at 11:53  
Blogger Preacher said...

Anon 9.41
You are right in what you say, pity that you submitted as anon. If one stands back & adds all the clues, the greatest global crime is about to be commited on mankind ever. I ask again, when does conspiracy theory become conspiracy fact? Even Darwins theory is being given new prominence on T.V, despite the fact that still IS a non scientific load of codswallop. But the 'eco' crowd are so firmly entrenched that they can even tell us what light bulbs to use, with the threat of litigation if we refuse. What on earth is going on, are we all stricken with blindness that these servants of antichrist can just walk in & take over? Is some sort of drug being administered in the water supply?. The time is short, we must use it wisely, judgement is coming on this world & the ONLY safe path is the one that leads to the cross of Christ. We need to ask the Lord for fearless men who will preach the gospel without fear of man, & a revival that will make all previous ones pale in comparison. Thank God for the Lord Monktons of this world, may he thrive & prosper. But may the evil servants of satan that set all this up receive their just desserts at the judgement.

11 November 2009 at 12:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also I forgot to say that UK farmers have been told they must set a part of land for environmental purposes (a land grab - what happened to common land - and I note they want to use neautiful welsh uplands for horrible large windfarms, though these could be served for grazng of animals so that the land not in uplands can be used part of the year for things like growing food etc. There are plans for officials to enter home and in effect force "environmental" upgrades on homes. it seems to me that while there are people that genuinely care for the environment, the environmental issue is being abused to enrich some large companies, increase goverment, decrease individual rights, and often not to promote sustainability. It is also depleteing the rights of individuals and small businesses as well as national sovereignty. I fear those who won property or animals should keep paper copies of what they I dont trust the UK government or the EU or others not to do landgrabs. There is also the issue of IPC - grade 2 listed buildings arent protected. And I have read so many newspaper articles where the right to privacy and the civil rights are being eroded for "environmental" protection ineter alia. Ditto the imposition of stealth tazes for litter bin violations, and if homeowners or landlords or businesses are forced to upgrade becuase of the latest environmental "fad" that is in effect a strealth capital tax, and furhter red-tape which depletes (as they know) the ability of individuals, families and small businesses to be self-sufficient and to earn a living - let alone the privacy implications 9any excuse to enter a home, criminlize a person, moniter their every choice, fine them, harss them) - see also the POCA laws which ccan alos be used in the name of environemntal causes or copyright or "protecting the vulnerable" or telling parents how to raise their children or telling people what they can or can or believe or say.
having been myself harrassed and threatened and smeared and framed in subtle and not so subtle ways (though innocent) for years, I fear for people - Christian or not. Though we can be triumphant thu Christ, suffering is still painful. I know some of the tricks that those who abuse power use. I would appreciate prayer as well. Sorry I rambled on.

11 November 2009 at 12:07  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

Lord Lavenden -

I am so sorry that you evidently don't approve of windfarms.

However I don't much care for the alternatives, either. Certainly nuclear power is expensive and highly dangerous, and, what's more, I don't feel it's ethical to condemn 20 throusand generations of our descendents to our mess just so we can keep our lights on right now. And the oil is running out.....

11 November 2009 at 12:45  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Thats me unable to comment then !

theres no science

although suggest you vist chinese industrial city , soon be beleiving in toxic air

11 November 2009 at 13:14  
Blogger John said...

"I note they want to use neautiful welsh uplands for horrible large windfarms, though these could be served for grazng of animals so that the land not in uplands can be used part of the year for things like growing food etc"

i like windfarms. they're really quite beautiful in their own way. very peaceful and pensive place I find. And they don't poo.

"Lord Monckton is a business consultant, writer and former policy adviser to Margaret Thatcher"

I might be crazy, but I think I'll let scientists and not politicians/businessmen tell me the science. Maybe Al Gore got things wrong too, but isn't it putting up a straw man to make a layman the representative of the science? It seems to be entirely faulty logic to say the failiure of one underqualified believer in global warming to provide scientific backing entails that the science itself is erroneous. All that shows is that his education and/or intellect hasn't suitably fitted him for the task that he has taken upon himself.

11 November 2009 at 13:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 0.941

Many of us may be naïve.

Are you sure that a one world government is going to be established?

Read Daniel again and Revelations.

‘Ships off Chittim’ oppose him. They are clearly not fishing trawlers.

Could it be the US’s Sixth Mediterranean Fleet threatening you know who?

Finally, when the prophets speak about the ‘whole world’ could it be that they conceive of the limits of the ‘whole world’ as the geographical limits of the empires that they were in?

‘One World Government’ idea may be diverting our attention from the revived Roman Empire (including the Union for the Mediterranean): the EU.

11 November 2009 at 13:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Old Grumpy, No Sir, I do not approve of wind farms.

They are an atrocious blot on the landscape and are labour's townie revenge on us non-labour voting rural folk. I wouldn't mind if the designers made the structures fit into the landscape a bit, like water or windmills, but they don't do they? Wind farms are just destroying the natural beauty of the countryside and indeed SPACE in the countryside. I doubt very much they will produce the energy that is required- if wind farms were the answer then Miliband wouldn't have gone for the nuclear option in a big way. (I agree that nuclear isn't the way, but at least this makes the point regarding wind farms.)

Personally I can't see why we can't use countryside in a way that it has been used for centuries, i.e. agriculture.

1) Bio fuels- use crops to create fuels rather than oil. Thus reduces reliance on unstable states for a basic economic need.

2) Supplying the developing world with agricultural products.

This isn't as mad as it seems, one thing which some people overlook is the very fact that as the third world industrialises (yes this will still happen regardless of any green treaty) and gets richer their diets are changing; e.g. look at articles on how China is changing her eating habits.

Now I appreciate that the green fundamentalists are going to start crying out for state control on what people eat (too many animal farts etc), but to me this seems like a business opportunity which is smarter than the wastage of rural land on wind farms (or nuclear).

3) English inventions

Dare I say it but I can imagine a typical English 'mad professor’ inventing a device that harnesses the animal farts into 'renewable' energy, thus further helping the British economy.

Thus problem solved.

And not a wind farm or nuclear power station in sight!

11 November 2009 at 13:41  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

I find it difficult to believe that all those billions of euros will in fact, one day, be drained out of the advanced industrial economies and handed over to the backward (or “developing” or “emerging”) nations. But even if that should come to pass, the money won’t stay there for long. It’ll find its way home quickly enough, into presidential and prime ministerial offshore bank accounts in Switzerland or the Isle of Man, or into valuable real estate in Park Lane or Fifth Avenue. Anyone who’s smart enough to claw his way up the ladder and become president of a third-world country isn’t going to make the foolish mistake of investing his windfall profits in his own no-hope economy.

11 November 2009 at 13:59  
Blogger Robert said...

Amazing. Everything appears to be just falling into place these days.

D. Singh, I'm with you on your last post: there is definitely going to be some opposition to this "one world government," whatever it may be.

11 November 2009 at 14:03  
Blogger Frugal Dougal said...

So, on page 43, our lords and masters pledge to steal 0.7% GDP from our soldiers and children to give to less-developed countries? It would be laughable, if it weren't so self-defeating: it's those countries that are contributing to so-called global warming, especially India and China nad their effective colonies in Africa.

11 November 2009 at 14:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps that's why Blair isn't bothered about becoming EUSSR President. He has a bigger prize- Lord High President of the globe!

But who will be Vice President in this 'liberal' new world government - suggestions please!

Gadaffi? Mugabe? Castro?

11 November 2009 at 14:14  
Anonymous philip walling said...

El Gordo, Lord Lavendon?

11 November 2009 at 14:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Biofuels take away land that can be used for feeding people and for wildlife. When individuals or the country sabatage the ability to be self seufficient in food supplies, they bcome dependent on others - foreign owned companies or other governments including one-world government. Also, seeds which produce plants whose seeds cannot be used next season also decrease the ability of people indivually and their country to live and thrive as they choose. How much land per megawatt do large windfarms or biofuel need. There are some smaller wind-to-power items which do not blot the countryside - what about solar power among other things. God says in His word that nature glorifies Him - it is also His gift to people. Ugly, ineffient large windfarms (which need wind all the time) not only blot the landscape but they also indirectly further reduce the freedom of the people and their government. I note also - the firms are foreign , another way that indivudal sovereignty is reduced. With every fad and with every law and statutory instrument, the government and the EU and such organizations are often reducing the capacity of people to be free - and impoverishing them and making them dependent and further away from the decision making process. What is the rseult of much of government "help" to poor in other countries - they cannot grow their own food, they are dependent on the West, they lack access to water, they aer polluted - sorry to be so cynical but the wolves in sheeps clothing often enrich themselves off the poor/their land who are ued as cheap markets for their goods and cheap resources. Helping the poor and looking after energy needs and the environment doesnt do that when other motives are present. I am not saying everyone who is inolved in these governmental/supragovernmental organziations are have greedy motives - some are idealistic and get used. But as one of the commentators noted, all things seem to be being laid in place for a one world government using governments, blocs and supranational governments and non-governmental groups including lobbyists to in effect rob indiduals and countries of any real freedom inluding the ability to feed and clothe oneself and one's family and share with others.
In Revelations, it speaks of terrible times, and so I hope that any non-Christians reading this will not think that any Christians look forward to the increased oppression and suffering mentioned in Revelations, and know that while we look forward to the Lord Jesus' return, we don't look forward to the suffering of any people, Christian or not, nor the suffering of animals, fishand insects or the further partial destruction or pollution of the seas, of land, of wildlife. With all of the agendas being used to moniter people and mechanize everything and all the international conferneces, why does noone talk about the unnecessary ecowaste and pollution caused by those who are promoting this agenda and their policies. Also, in case anyone doesn't know, they are gradually tagging animals in the UK (farm and horses and dogs) sometimes with microchips, which as a Christian I find horrible - animals may not be Humans with human, God-givven souls, but they do have souls, and are living creatures created by our Lord. I guess we need also to look forward to true freedom in heaven to worship our Lord. Also there will be no suffering or pollution or microchips!

11 November 2009 at 14:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 2.50 pm

Look I am not looking forward to the terrible events which are about to unfold.

I never, ever, until now thought that they would occur in my lifetime.

It was only when I discovered that Sir Isaac Newton gave up on solving the prohecies in the book of Daniel upon the ground that it was not for his time, that I reexamined them to see if they were for my time.

And what I have found makes me tremble. I sometimes look around at my home and animals as if it was for the last time.

11 November 2009 at 15:03  
Anonymous IanCad said...

On A Lighter Note:
Hank Petram 13:59 Backward / Developing.
At a social science class an attractive young lady was chided by the teacher for referring to a certain tribe as being "Backward"
The teacher proposed that "undereveloped" would be a kinder term and asked the girl how she would like to be described were she a member of that unfortunate group. Instantly she shot back "Backward Sir"

11 November 2009 at 15:20  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

D Singh is right. We are living in 'the end times '. Amen Come Lord Jesus !

11 November 2009 at 15:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 3.46 pm

We still have to do our duty before God and men: oppose this tyranny that men call the EU.

11 November 2009 at 15:55  
Anonymous whippet said...

So the world is about to end then?

Let's get some extra drinking done then. Ladies & gents whose round is it ?

Mine's a pint of Abbot Ale .

11 November 2009 at 15:58  
Anonymous tub thumping preacher said...

Yes the second Roman Empire,or EU, as fortold in the book of Revelation is now upon us.....

11 November 2009 at 16:07  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

@ Anon 14:50 (and my apologies to His Grace for replying to an "anon")

I note the objection that windfarms are "foreign". Fair comment, but then, courtesy of the eu and our own industrialists selling us down the river of globalization, virtually everything now is "foreign" so what's new?

I want to know what happens when the peoples republic of China decides that we are "not friends of the Chinese people" (a thing they used to do, even in the 1960's) and unilaterally decide to shut your account. Where do we buy everything then?

And, of course, the eu is very happy to shut all our other remaining industries down one after another and "centralize" them in continental europe. With Lisbon done and dusted, except our new masters to start flexing their muscles very soon. I think that it may soon, finally ,become apparent to the man in the street that we have suddenly gone a new, unelected, government, one which we can't vote out, and is run by a self amending treaty.

Note to Lord L:
I'm glad we agree on nuclear, anyway. And I'm a country boy myself, BTW.
However, there are lots of miles of ocean out there just asking for wave power (the famous bobbing duck, as sabotaged by the nuclear power industry at the Culham laboratory in the 1970's) and wave power is basically 24/7. Surely your Lordship wouldn;t be averse to that?

11 November 2009 at 16:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to D.Singh: I wan't thinking of you - I have come across in churches of all ilks some who say "praise the Lord" about suffering, they have nver duffered a lot or have only known legalistic thinking, and I think it misrepresents the Lord's teaching on suffering. I have had times of suffering where I both felt the Lord's comfort and the pain, and have been deeply hurt and seen others hurt by a false application of God's word to the effedt of - great, suffering is good for you, Praise the Lord (see James or how the Lord treated suffering individuals). There are things that can be said to a froup of people, or after a phase of suffering has ended, or about ourselves which should never be said uncaringly to others. Jesus always cares. Also, I think the reputation of Chrstianity in the West has been hurt by the "crusade" mentality of some in regard to some recent wars, and the down-playing of the terrible burden on those in the forces and other innocent bystanders.
To "Old Grumpy":
I am concerned about the sea-based windfarms, they might be on top of resource a country needs, but more importatly, will they effect tides and anything else (including the fish) by altering magnetic or electro-magnetic fields or anything else.
I am no Luddite, but so many times it seems that scientists introduce schemes which obviously will have bad side effects scienttifically as well as sociallogically which outway any benifits, and then later these "unintended cconsequences" are in the papers and there is a backtrack. Ditto with the social engineering. I have a high IQ, but a lot of people with a lot more common sense than me but less "iq" notice as well - which is why I get cynical about "grand schemes" and central diktats seeming to be often more about politics or money making than helping people.

11 November 2009 at 16:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

also re large wind farms - if onland they are causing health problems to people -due to noise and also the electromagnetic currents other energy(I think) that is relased in the process and not trapped and therfore used for power. I assume this would also affect any living organisms.
There are smaller wind-pwer generators, which can be placed on already ugly modern buildings like supermarkets, some of which are designed by some Scots - I don't know how much incremental power they could produce. They look like they ould be a lot cheaper to make and buy, and also a lot more easily deinstalled if there are long term unintended consequences. Does anyone know about an solar or other solutions which are life friendly, eco-friendly, flexible and would not be a burden on individuals, small businesses (or large ones) or the economy, and which would help British industry or the home-grown industries of other countries?

11 November 2009 at 16:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Old Grumpy,Sir, I would probably not object to offshore windfarms; it is just those out in the countryside.

I may not oppose windfarms in the countryside if they produced enough power to really do what they are there for ....

In that respect it is just like solar power. All well and good in somewhere that has lots of sunny days (florida? California? ) but our sceptred isle isn't really know for its sunshine.

Also if they looked more asthetically pleasing to the eye then it might be more acceptable .

Having said that if we believe some of the postings here then the end is nigh anyway......

11 November 2009 at 16:54  
Anonymous Blair for President said...

Some comments on this thread seem to come from some whacky conspiracy theory site. Some of you are nuts ! This whole end of the world stuff and the EU as the second roman empire is just tosh. The Roman Empire didn't include Ireland, Scandinavia or Germany. It did include the Middle east though.

Also what is wrong exactly will a world government or Tony Blair being the head of it ? At least he is a Christian!

11 November 2009 at 16:59  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

Lord Lavendon, your Lordship:

I fully concur with you about the aesthetics of windfarms, but I have to say I'd prefer one of them to a nuclear installation on my doorstep....probably most people would, too. I think everyone who's so terribly fond of nuclear power should live next to a nuclear power station and then tell us how safe they are.

The thing is, as always, that, like roads, everyone wants power stations (of some description) but not "here". As a minister of transport once observed, we have yet to be able to build a new road "there"

However , one update on solar power is that the state of the art is now far better than it was and even the UK's pretty dismal daylight can quite handily power solar cells even in winter. Ordinary daylight is all that's required...not even sunlight

To my mind, the only safe nuclear power station is the one that's 93 million miles away, and even that causes sunburns and cancers

With apologies also to His Grace for possibly being a bit off topic here.

11 November 2009 at 17:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Your comment made me laugh and then cry.

It reminded me of when St Paul said, if I recall correctly, if there is no resurrection, then let us drink and be merry.

For tomorrow we die.

Mines a nukey brown.

11 November 2009 at 17:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blair for President

I can recall no reference in the Bible that it would be based on te exact borders of the old Roman Empire.

However, the awesome statute in the book of Daniel, with the iron legs (old Roman Empire) 'seeps' as it were into the feet of iron and clay.

The iron and clay do not mix in this final empire. The iron is where the super-state's power lies (the ruling elite) over the 'men of clay'.

11 November 2009 at 17:33  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Your Grace,
I have to say that this particular iteration of the path to OWG is precisely that. It is but a step in the process.
Deep scepticism is already rife among the mass of men. THE GREAT FAT ONE has muffed it. He is a joke, his credibility is shot and it has never been so cold.
I think we will have to wait for the next chapter.
May we all be watchmen. Monckton and others have blown the trumpet and the defences are up.

11 November 2009 at 17:33  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

I wish you people who seem to think the Bible supports your crakpot prophecies would get it into your heads that it ain't Revelations (plural); it is Revelation (singular).

It takes its name from its opening words:
'The Revelation [...singular...] of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John...'

That word, Revelation, is a translation of the Greek word apokalupsis, which means the drawing aside of a veil or curtain.

Incidentally, you prophets who see world governments, Napoleon, Hitler and Tony Blair in Revelation may care to reflect on those opening words: ' show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass...'

I don't know what comfort you imagine the original readers, suffering under Roman persecution, would have drawn from knowing that there would be a world government 2000 years later.

11 November 2009 at 17:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Thank you. For I have truly learnt something new today.

11 November 2009 at 17:54  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blair for President

You said that it 'did incude the Middle East though'.

It included North Africa too.

This has been achieved under the Union for the Meditteranean.

The EU holds joint presidency of that Union. Israel is a member.

I ask Catholics to forgive me when as a Protestant I may have suggested that Rome is the city on the seven hills mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

It is not Rome.

11 November 2009 at 18:00  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Anabaptist 17:39
Would this amend your preterist viewpoint?
2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".

11 November 2009 at 18:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

D Singh and Blairforpresident:
I was reading Revelations 13 the other day and got a bit nervous when I noticed that the beast had 7 heads and 10 horns and ten crowns . 10 + 7 + 10 = 27 - I think the number of countries in the present EU (though google eurafrica and articles from the last few months - the EU is already looking to do something there). Having said that, Revelations has warnings about adding to or taking away from its words and prophesies, and it is hard for us as humans to read it and not speculate too much, though Revelations says we are blessed to read it and the Bible is full of verses encouraging us to think about what is written in the Bible. We are not God and Biblical prophesies that have already come to pass are often not obvious until after they have come to pass - like Isaiah 53 about our Lord dying, being crucified for our wrongdoings and becoming alive again. I don't think crucifiction was known in Isaiah's culture when he penned that chapter. Similarly, the Bible would not necessarily have listed future foreign nations like Iceland because the books were written in a time before the current international territory of Iceland might have existed as exactly that amount of land/sea in that place as a separate country and not part of an empire etc. Borders of countries and empires change. Also different prophetical parts of the Bible were written by different authors at differnt times and in differnt cultures and the name they use for countries, though inspired by God, reflects in some cases the geography and culture of the writer at the time they wrote, not at the time/place/culture we read it. And it is written for all, not just those who know history and /or geography and/or archaeology etc. Somewhere in the Bible(?Acts?/?Matthew?) God said no person would know in advance the exact time of the "end of the world" and therefore judgement-time before God for our lives because otherwise some people
might live their lives anyhow, assuming they would "repent" just before the end of things - rather than because they genuinely felt they were sinners needing God's forgiveness and love who wanted and accepted forgiveness though God's mercifully punishing Jesus for our wrongdoings. We all deceive ourselves sometimes and if we repented just before the judgement date we might not be truly crying out to God, and therefore might not be genuinely saved from judgement, and He in His love DOES want us to turn to Him becuase we want to, not becuase it is one second from a pre-advertised exact date of judgement.

11 November 2009 at 18:25  
Anonymous Stewart Cowan said...

We have one chance: to recognise that a global government is indeed being set up, fight it and win.

11 November 2009 at 18:31  
Anonymous common sense and reason triumph said...

D Singh

Of course it was Rome - the book of Revelation ( as anabaptist righty points out) was written from a perspective of Christian persecution during the Roman Emperor Nerva. These Christian persecutions are also mentioned by the Roman historian Seutonius.

Just because you might have changed denomination should not change that fact .

Also just because you don't like the EU does not make it into a 'second roman empire' or anything of the sort. You are simply using some facts to fit an outlandish theory.

Ask your parish priest if you don't believe me .

11 November 2009 at 18:41  
Blogger TreeSleeper said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2009 at 18:42  
Anonymous Blair for president said...

Still can't see what is wrong with a world government based on EU principals and run by the best PM we have ever had- Mr Blair .

11 November 2009 at 18:42  
Anonymous Convert all anglicans to Rome said...

Treesleeper said :

"It's a shame that talking shite could not be turned into reusable energy, the comments in here would power London for a week."

Quite ! You could power it for a whole year on that theory.

11 November 2009 at 18:44  
Blogger TreeSleeper said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2009 at 18:53  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

IanCad asks if 2 Peter 3:8 would 'amend' my preterist viewpoint.

No; it would not change my view that Revelation was written, as it most clearly and explicitly states, concerning things that must shortly come to pass. That is, they must shortly come to pass at the time they were written.

Why? Firstly, because 2 Peter 3:8 was written to show that, although God's judgement may seem a long time coming, it shall inevitably come. The writer explains in v. 9 that the delay in the coming of judgement is the result of God's longsuffering, providing continuing opportunities for repentance. It is difficult to see what this has to do with our understanding of Revelation 1:1, which makes the explicit promise of soon-to-be-accomplished events.

Secondly, though God's timescale is not the same as that of humans, Revelation was not written for or to God, but for and to people, who would understand and benefit from it in their own timescale.

Thirdly, the contemporary readers and hearers of the book of Revelation (who were told also in 1:3 that 'the time is at hand') were given these visions for their comfort and consolation in their sufferings -- sufferings shared by the seer himself (1:9). How could knowledge of events in countries and times far off and unknown, concerning peoples, dominations and wars of whom the suffering Christians could know nothing -- how could such things bring them any comfort or consolation? It is stretching matters to breaking point to imagine that the Roman oppression would somehow seem less severe as a result of knowing that one day the UN would become the instrument of world government.

And fourthly, I am not persuaded by any method of interpreting the Bible which falls back on the decontextualising of verses, in order that they should be ripped out and used as slogans regardless of their original context and meaning. The Bible isn't a text-mine.

11 November 2009 at 18:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Grumpy old man, Sir, I guess you have me in a corner. I would have to agree to wind farms over and above nuclear power any day.

I have no problems with solar power, just didn't think it would work. But it is good news if there is better and new technology to be put to use.

Also , am I the only one who is thinking that some people have not been taking their pills today ? I have to admit that I am getting very confused over the whole book of Revelation thread, the EU as the anitchrist/Second Roman Empire .

Can anyone explain to his Lordship?

Finally I hope treesleeper wasn't referring to me about the shite.

11 November 2009 at 18:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anabaptist, Sir, you think like an Anglican. And yes that meant as praise.

11 November 2009 at 18:56  
Anonymous Peter the Roman said...

Wait until I'm Pope.

11 November 2009 at 18:59  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

Lord Lavendon admits that he is getting very confused over the whole book of Revelation thread, the EU as the anitchrist/Second Roman Empire.

Too right, your Lordship.

Unfortunately, such stuff tends to be written by people who don't know how to insert paragraphs, and who would, given the opportunity, type in green.

Just read my comments on Revelation, and all will be clear.

Hope that helps.

Oh, and congratulations on managing to call it 'Revelation'.

11 November 2009 at 18:59  
Anonymous Anabaptist said...

Thank you, Lord Lavendon, for your kindly-meant suggestion that I think like an Anglican.

Just a little correction, if I may: in fact, Anglicans who are right about these matters are thinking like me. You should tell them that you are pleased to note that they are thinking like Anabaptists. They will be delighted by that.

11 November 2009 at 19:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Anabaptist, sir, yes I shall pass this on to my fellow Anglicans.

And thankyou your postings have helped me to reflect about the theology of the book of Revelation and its historic context.

11 November 2009 at 19:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Peter the Roman, and who,Sir, are you perchance? And why do you think you will be the next Pope?

11 November 2009 at 19:12  
Blogger Canada Guy said...

Everyone knows that preventing climate change, or at least the worst consequences of it, is not going to be easy. While the task required is large and difficult, there are some simple, quick, and easy fixes that can make a real difference, and perhaps even buy us more time. But they are being ignored.

11 November 2009 at 19:22  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Anabaptist 18:53
"The Bible isn't a text-mine"
So True So true. The Bible is a whole. Thus when any quote is given it does open up the poster to your charge.
Let me paraphrase Joseph?? in Wuthering Heights.
"There is not, and possibly never was, such an old Pharisee, who would ransack a Bible to rake the promises to himself and throw the curses at his neighbours" I'm assuming this is what you mean.
To Work, To Work, Warning!! This site promotes tardiness.

11 November 2009 at 19:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anabaptist: if all of revelation has come to pass then what do you think of revelation 12:16
"And he causeth all, both great and small, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads"?

11 November 2009 at 19:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The world government imposed upon us is surely going to hearld the end time, when the beast who wears 666 will rule the earth.

The whole global warming story is just that - it is a myth. God gave us command of this plant to do as we see fit.

And I for one ain't going to give up my constitutional rights to own guns to the UN OR make the USA into a third world country to help the chinense out. NO way ! Global warming is a commie plot to undermine the west from within.

11 November 2009 at 19:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right, my head is now spinning with all these quotations from Revelation. I'm off to get a glass of red. Perhaps the world might end whilst I am doing so, but I will just have to take that chance.

11 November 2009 at 19:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't like the fact that you indirectly make fun of Revelation or some of those who look at current events in light of it, though I agree with your right to do so. Was your wording sarcasm, mockery or did you really mean it?

11 November 2009 at 19:35  
Anonymous ANON@1930 said...

Anon @ 19.35. This who green crap is a commie plot to undermine the very foundation of truth, freedom, justice and the American way !

11 November 2009 at 19:43  
Anonymous Anon who wrote post at 19.30 said...

What's wrong with indirectly making fun of the mumbo jumbo of Revelation. It was written by a guy high on drugs. I find some of the nuts and right wingers here equally stupid.

11 November 2009 at 19:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At 6.41 pm

It is not Rome. I wanted to believe it was Rome (1957 Treaty).

You are real close.

It's the other one.

I did not know that the imperial power of the feet of iron and clay was 'open' to a 'multi-level' analysis. Two legs. Two feet.

God makes me laugh. Imagine that, the Creator of the universe makes Mr S laugh.

By that one means that it must be checked and be affirmed by, say, Psalm 83.

11 November 2009 at 19:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon@19:30 re your message at 19:43
methinks you jest - there are American believers who dont think it is a commie plot as well as some who do. Have you met every American Christian? or are you (as we all can) stereotyping? I am not an American. I will say that as everywhere there are those that say they are Christian who are and some who are not, and that amongst genuine Christians ie those who know the Lord, there is disagreement on many topics, since none of us are all-knowing like god, and that all of us are affected in our understanding of the bible by our cultural and personal baggage (the good as well as the bad) and all of us are influenced by what we have read or heard - religious or otherwise. Only in heaven will we know everything and ironically then knowledge will most rightly not be our highest priority. Also our grammar and syntax will be as perfect as demanded by some who may have better health or may not suffer from hacking or old software.

11 November 2009 at 19:55  
Anonymous Four horsemen said...

Wait till we arrive.

11 November 2009 at 19:56  
Anonymous Anon@19.35 said...

Anon @ 19.55.

Yes I was taking the mick. If only to lighten the mood, given some of the genuine wackos who have infested his Grace's site today. My apologises if I caused offence-it was not meant to cause as such.

11 November 2009 at 19:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon at 19:46 - from the real anon at 19:30 -I dont like to be falsely impersonated - may the Lord bless you and forgive you, and may you know the love of Jesus and, if you are hacking, may you use your many talents to do something other than impersonating me. I dont like amateur or professional psyops - and yes, both exist.

11 November 2009 at 20:03  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the real anon@19.35 said - sorry the post at 19:46 should have referred to 19:35, I did also post 19:30.

11 November 2009 at 20:05  
Anonymous Aon who wrote post at 19.35 said...

To the anon at 20.05 , My apolgoises. I was not hacking , just can't think of a name to use . Any ideas?

11 November 2009 at 20:08  
Anonymous Anon V "The great Anon" said...

What about me ?? Your impersonating all of me !

11 November 2009 at 20:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the person who posted at 19:59, are we not all wackos compared to God? Maybe we werent all blessed with the level of super-humanity or eliteness or education with which yoy have been blessed. When you use the wrod infested, are you implying that some people are insects who should be exterminated. I note that in some countries where there hs been genocide, a first step has been to dehumanise certain groups by labelling them as, guess what, insects (who infest). one man's wacko / trash is Jesus' treasure - if you care to read Corinthians you will find that not many of the wise or super rich or elite or superhumans were saved by the Lord - and jesus spent a lot of time with prostitutes and tax collectors and others whom some regard as wackos. Is this blog a page only for non-wackos? Would his Grace care to define thos is welcome on the site, as well as the rules? Where my blogging etiquette is not good, I apologize, but I do not like being impersonated.

11 November 2009 at 20:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh dear, looks like there is a bit of 'lowering the tone'. I would point out that anyone can sign a post as an anon, Mr. Anon Sir, of 20.21, so why do you require a monopoly of being the only anon in the village ? Why not think of a name other than anon ? Why not Cornithians or Revelation? Or something named after a fruit? Anything . Why anon?

Anyway can't some-one start a decent thread rather than having to listen to all these anons bicker amongst themselves?

11 November 2009 at 20:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My Lord Lavendon,

What sensible advice. I am sure that our American cousins will consider that.

11 November 2009 at 20:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Lrd Lavendon @20:30,
from anon at 17:30. The threads of confusion may be someone making mayhem using psyops. For many years I have been threated, hacked,stalked (genuine not imagined) and today I was being hacked, and then after leaving some comments, some "anons" started impersonating me, referencing posts I had made, and making comments as they had. If you look at the postings carefully, like an auditor, you will see that someone(s) have been purposely impersonating anon@17:30 and making mischief - if they choose to bicker with me, let them. I too don't like them making mischief. I am not trying to expecting to be the only anon - but when someone posts comments claiming to be anon at , for example 17:30 when they did not, then it is they who are bickering and making mischief. In these days when everything is monitered, there are some who would do such innocuous stuff in order to smear others. You may think that fantastical, but if you have been cyberstalked threatened and framed by sophisticated, wealthy and ruthless people for years, you would know that this kind of thing does happen sometimes. I would appreciate prayer.

11 November 2009 at 20:40  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Anon at 20.40, accepted, if you feel that you are being stalked and hacked then you must post as an anon.

But how can we distinguish you from all the other Anons and not the imposter anons who cause mischief?

11 November 2009 at 20:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually that's a silly thing for me to ask, must be the wine kicking in, just have to go by the contents of an anon post and not worry who the author is....

11 November 2009 at 20:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to Lord Lavendon 20:59,
I use anon (and dont expect to use it exclusivevly) because if I use a name/password, then, because of the hacking problem, stuff may get posted in that specific non anon name. Things like that have happened to me. I have had years of data about me chaning - not mistakes, but literally smearing including hacking/changing medical, phone, email data post etc. at pertinent times and in pertinent ways which defy probability. There are a few people who do such stuff for fun or for a living sadly. That is why I dont like the increasing monitering of people's data or pre-crime software, because such mischief makers then can really ruin people's lives, and authorities tend to believe what is written/on a database as if it must be true.
Hope you enjoy your wine. Also I hope it never happens to you - innocence is priceless.

11 November 2009 at 21:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Anon @21.10, Sir, I accept your point and I am sorry for your misfortune . I shall remember you in my prayers tonight.

11 November 2009 at 21:18  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

Mr. Preacher, hello again. We’re not crossing swords this time, but since several of His Grace’s communicants, anonymous and otherwise, have somehow contrived to drag the Book of Revelation into the argument, I would like to reiterate on this thread my earlier suggestion that there is no more suitable place for us all to get together and settle our differences than the once and future battlefield named in Rev. 16:16. While there’s still time.

And the first round is on me.

11 November 2009 at 23:04  
Blogger Ingenieur said...

If the substance of this article is true - that they intend to create a world government by stealth in just a few weeks time - then all those who think it a bad idea, instead of fighting over the precise meaning of Bible verses should be barn-storming the Press and all other media outlets to ensure that this proposal becomes as widely known as possible.

If indeed this is the plan then those behind it will absolutely HATE the light to be shone upon their activities.

11 November 2009 at 23:25  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

You were always a pain Singh but a much more agreeable one as an Anglican.Stop all this nonsense.

12 November 2009 at 10:18  
Anonymous confused said...


I thought D Singh was now a protestant again- he's written a post on the ABC thread (10 November) about Evangelicals in France . Hardley seems like the ranting of a Catholic. Perhaps he'll become a methodist or something?

12 November 2009 at 10:54  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Catholics are known for ranting about everything.Singh is clutching at straws at the moment .There is an air of desperation about him.Can't pin him down to any religion .He lost me with the guy who got thrown overboard and became a French bycyclist.I think he is a closet Dadaist.But even so he's not a bad bloke.

12 November 2009 at 11:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Sydneysider

I am your run-of-the-mill C of E member.

Mr Confused,

I am not about to change denomination.

12 November 2009 at 11:11  
Blogger Preacher said...

Hi Hank.
Nice of you to remember me, it's a bit hectic on here today. The meet's still on for Megiddo but I think we might have to rely on the men in grey to set the time. If I'm not there I'll see you at "arrivals" upstairs.
Regards. Preacher.

12 November 2009 at 11:12  
Anonymous Adrian Peirson said...

Alex Jones' Fall of the Republic

15 November 2009 at 22:22  
Anonymous Stormboy said...

I assume by now that everyone who believed Monckton's story about Copenhagen has actually looked into it and seen that the proposed treaty did none of the things he claimed, that Monckton was using deliberate deception to strike fear into you and reject action that could save the lives of millions of the world's poor. Sorry people, the one-world government is here; you should have read your Bibles. We don't need a formal system because our own greed guarantees that collectively we will never do what we know to be right. Monckton told you what your itching ears wanted to hear so that you didn't have to give any money to the poor.

26 January 2010 at 07:18  

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