Sunday, December 13, 2009

The Prime Minister's 'hush hush' Christmas gathering for Christian leaders

Apparently, church bells across the UK will ring out at 3.00pm for the success of the Copenhagen Climate Summit: ‘The aim is to highlight the 350 parts per million some developing nations say is the safe upper concentration for carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.’

The Almighty must be despairing. Cranmer is certainly bemused.

He cannot recall a time in history when church bells have pealed for the success of a political summit.

It is perhaps as inappropriate as the call to prayer issued by the Rev Nicky Gumbel at a ‘hush-hush reception’ (?) for Christian leaders at 10 Downing Street. Perhaps the Prime Minister did not wish to be seen consorting with eccentrics and odd-balls.

But it is ironic that the event was ‘hush hush’, considering the Prime Minister addressed the gathered church leaders and declared: ‘I don’t subscribe to the view that we are a secular society,’ he said. ‘Christian values are at the centre of national life. We are our brother’s keeper.’

But only in a ‘hush hush’ kind of way.

God forbid that anyone might find out the Prime Minister is hosting anything so bigoted as a gathering of exclusively Christian leaders at the taxpayers’ expense. And at that narrow sectarian time of Christmas, too.

And God forbid that any of those Christian leaders might do anything so inappropriate as to pray. Especially if it is ‘for Gordon Brown and for the success of the Copenhagen summit’.

There is, of course, exhortation to pray for those who lead us. But to pray for the success of the Copenhagen summit at a gathering of church leaders who might represent some diverse opinion on the matter is wholly inappropriate. Nicky Gumbel’s presumption apparently divided the ecumenical gathering: ‘Everybody there had some connection with Christian churches and maybe some members of the more evangelical, Pentecostal churches were comfortable with it. But a lot of traditional church people found it deeply awkward and inappropriate.’

One guest said: “It was all very jolly then suddenly went serious for an uncomfortable three or four minutes of prayer. Mr Brown made a speech before it, which was doubly strange as everybody there knew that he has always been canny about his religion. Indeed Mr Brown’s administration has repeatedly come under criticism for promoting a multicultural Britain to the detriment of Christianity.”

Among the 150 guests were Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, who (sadly) has declined the peerage offered by the Prime Minister.

The Archbishop of Canterbury could not attend the reception ‘due to a prior commitment’.

It was obviously so ‘hush hush’ that the Prime Minister did not bother to get his diary secretary to liaise with Lambeth Palace. Dr Williams is, after all, only the leader of the Established Church.

One wonders if there has been a little falling out.

Or perhaps the Archbishop did not wish to be upstaged by Nicky Gumbel.

Or the Cardinal Archbishop.

Or any of the other 148 guests on the ‘hush hush’ list.

Merry Christmas, Prime Minister. Had Cranmer been invited, he would have prayed that this might be your last in Downing Street. And he would have coughed and spluttered like a demon-possessed goblin during the incantation to Gaia for the success of Copenhagen.


Blogger Gnostic said...

The church bells are going to ring out for the triumph of stupidity and venality over common sense?

Sadly that no longer surprises me.

My word verification is "outte". Couldn't put is better if I tried.

13 December 2009 at 10:14  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Your Grace,

Is the billions that we are going to give the third world, at such great cost to ourselves, going to involve setting up a program of contraception and sterilisation. If it isn't, which I sincerely doubt because nobody wants to face up to the real issue concerning the climate,(us,people,population) then it is a calamitous waste of money.

Just a small example, Bangladesh, where there are tens if not hundreds of millions of people living in poverty in an area that periodically floods and is getting worse. If there were not so many of them, they would be able to adapt by utilising higher ground but there are to many for that.

When there are water shortages in Africa, again if the population was managed properly, it wouldn't be so catastrophic.

I am not suggesting some kind of Nazi solution but population control needs to be addressed NOW, even in the UK. It will take a couple of generations to even begin to see the benefits of population reduction and so in my view we should concentrate a bit less on CO2 and more on achieving less people.

I know a lot of people find this unpalatable but does anybody really think we can go on reproducing at the current level and still have the planet sustain us. As Leg Iron was saying on his blog the other day, Nature will carry on regardless and not even notice our demise as another species will step up in our place. The planet is not doomed, we are unless.....

13 December 2009 at 11:16  
Blogger The Anti Christ said...

Feeling better today and enjoying a weird Holy Spirit situation. I am a fairly recent convert to the ABC's fan club, so all in all I am, this morning, inclined to say nothing, excepting that I have noticed a link that His Grace has used is a TweetMeme (you saucy devil).

13 December 2009 at 11:18  
Anonymous Stuart said...

Fantastic. You are in brilliant form Your Grace. Your last paragraph had me laughing my socks off.

13 December 2009 at 11:30  
Anonymous len said...

A hush-hush reception for Christian leaders?
Perhaps they were hoping the Muslims wouldn`t notice?. Not P C and that sort of thing.

If only Christians would preach the Gospel with the passion and the determination of the apostle Paul! " For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek"(Romans 1:16)

13 December 2009 at 11:50  
Blogger The Anti Christ said...

Your Grace.

The Maill seems to have pinned down the mysterious late night calls from No 10 to Canterbury:

Solved: The mystery of the No10 midnight phone calls to Canterbury (and they weren't to the Archbishop)
Sarah Brown, it seems, had been burning the midnight oil exchanging gossip with her best friend, the chicklit author Gil McNeil.

13 December 2009 at 11:59  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Anti-Christ,

Yes, His Grace saw that, but prefers Mrs Gledhill's speculation in The Times. Unfortunately, she has removed that article in its entirety, leaving only a Tweety thingy footprint.

13 December 2009 at 12:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

“Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.”

John Donne

Like Mr Cheddar, I doubt the sincerity of any messiahs or prophets of the sustainability religions who do not advocate a reducing population: even our current population is unsustainable in the long run at anything more than subsistence level for the vast majority.

Many advanced countries have declining indigenous populations, including the UK, Japan, Spain and Italy, which is just what the world needs.

But this is perceived as a problem by their politicians, including that nice Mr Blair, who ‘solved’ Britain’s declining population ‘problem’ by importing huge numbers of people to swell the ranks of ‘taxpayers’.

A sustainable decline of half a percent per year would halve the population over 140 years – about 5 generations: perfectly achievable. One percent per annum would achieve the same effect in about 70 years: ditto. Each generation would adapt to the decline without any problems save those manufactured for them by their politicians.

Whether we have the luxury of 140 years or even 70 years is another matter: natural population explosions naturally self-correct with catastrophic declines of around 80% in a short period, meaning a lot less than 70 years.


PS My verification is ‘cranmers’. I am honoured, Your Grace.

13 December 2009 at 13:06  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

This world is so sick! More sick than the world are those churches that ring their bells for the outcome - orgasm - of the DEVIL's ORGY. It would not be so bad if we were not forced to pay for this utter ECO-sectarian folly by our stupid governments who listen to the voice of the evil one instead of the voice of true science and truth. But by this they show they are children of the devil, who is also called the father of lies. How much longer must we suffer them? As long as we do not obey 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

13 December 2009 at 13:16  
Anonymous Martin Sewell said...

I wonder if NickyGumbel has seen Christopher Booker's excellent piece in theSunday Telegraph in which he makes a straight line connection between theCarbon Trading scam being organised at Copenhagen and the loss of 1700 steelworker's jobs in Redcar.

He might have offered the curmudgeonly Clunking Fist an appropriately seasonal greeting " British Jobs for British workers? - Bah, humbug!

13 December 2009 at 13:25  
Anonymous PaganPride said...

Ahem Your Grace - I nice incantation to Gaia would do just fine I think; Especially as I think the goddess of earth would be more pis*ed off with them all than you could be.

I read somewhere that we humans are like fleas on Gaia's back and if we irritate her too much she'll shake us off - she of course would probably not notice!!

A nice analogy I feel.

AGW - my foot! Natural climate change has been going on for millions of years and we have been incorrectly recording the weather for how long?

Goddes give me strength!!!

13 December 2009 at 13:27  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

'Or perhaps the Archbishop did not wish to be upstaged by Nicky Gumbel.

Or the Cardinal Archbishop.

Or any of the other 148 guests on the ‘hush hush’ list'.

Oh for goodness sake!!!

You can't stop can you?


13 December 2009 at 13:29  
Anonymous Stewart Cowan said...

Mr Maturecheese,

By definition, 'population control' is a 'Nazi' concept.

Over-population is a myth, perpetuated so you go along with the Nazi-style eugenics programme.

You can single out low-lying areas of Bangladesh and large cities as being problematic, and they are, but when everyone in the world could live comfortably in an area the size of Texas, there isn't a problem.

Already, most people think that two children is 'normal' and 'enough' for no other reason than the family planning (nice eugenicist term) industry has convinced them.

The globalists agenda is to destroy everything valuable: the family, Christianity and the nation state.

13 December 2009 at 13:41  
Anonymous graham wood said...

I don't think any church bells will be ringing in my part of Yorkshire, except perhaps in recognition that AGW has not reached us here yet.

In fact, so successful are the steps being taken to reduce CO2 that it appears the reduction has worked !
Well done big AL - all is forgiven.

13 December 2009 at 14:40  
Anonymous Hank Petram said...

I share Your Grace’s disappointment that Cardinal Cormac has refused a peerage. Do we know what his motives were? The explanation that “some bishops” advised him it might be a contravention of canon law, I find less than convincing.

Surely he can't be nursing any hopes, like Your Grace's contemporary Cardinal Wolsey, of being elected to the throne of Peter?

13 December 2009 at 14:44  
Blogger ukipwebmaster said...

Time for some Christmas Carols:

13 December 2009 at 15:03  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

I have never posted on your site, on a Sunday. But on this day of rest I am angry. As per usual, and as I have been commanded, just like the other Christians, I attended church this morning.

The sermon was supposed to be on the text Luke 3:7-18 where John the Baptist is preaching in the desert. This is the portion of scripture where John preaches a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

The sermon began all right. And then it started. Somehow or the other that man in the pulpit began preaching about climate change. He asked us to ‘repent’ - yes that’s right - he asked us to ’rent’ of our sins in connection with climate change. The more he asked me to repent of my ‘sins’ on climate change - the more my blood pressure began to rise to alarming levels. By the time that man had finished I was ready to stand up and shout, ‘When are YOU going to feed us with bread? When are YOU people going to cease throwing pebbles at us? When are YOU going to understand that the people are hungry?’

Your Grace, what has become of our church?

Sin-upon-sin is loaded on the backs of our old, sick, confused and vulnerable people.

How can they repent of that which is not even proven to be a sin?

That man in the pulpit said that if the people did not repent then we would not be able to leave a world for future generations. Does that man not know that even if Britain and Northern Ireland ceased emitting carbon it would hardly make the slightest difference? What if climate change, even if it were to be proven, was permitted by God as a sign that the ‘End Times’ are near? So that we may prepare for what is to come. Would that man attribute sin to God?

The people come faithfully to church every Sunday morning. They want to know about this God of love; they are hungry for the bread of life because the loaf of bread on the kitchen table does not satisfy them.

Aye the man in the pulpit said the church bells would ring at 3 pm.

For whom Your Grace?

13 December 2009 at 15:04  
Anonymous Stewart Cowan said...

Why are the bells going to ring out? Are they celebrating that:

a) There will be more abortions (human sacrifices to Gaia) to 'save the planet'?

b) More land will be given over to biofuels so food prices rise even more and even more people starve to death?

c) Money will be siphoned from western nations into the coffers of rich dictators who will use the money to build palaces, repress the people and buy more weapons to fight their neighbours?

d) 700 new global bureaucracies will be established to tax and control the people of the world. This will, of course, include making Christianity illegal for being out of line with global equality aims?

e) All the above and more?

13 December 2009 at 15:13  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Mr. Singh, I would have stood up and walked out in protest. Church is for communing with God, not for being force fed socialist clap(happy?)trap. However, I lost my faith in the Anglican church many years ago so I won't find myself being regaled in such a cynical and highly political way.

13 December 2009 at 15:20  
Anonymous Stuart said...

Mr Singh, I have just read your comment and I am now angry with you.

Probably doesn't help any....

And we wonder why folks are leaving the church.

13 December 2009 at 15:27  
Anonymous philip walling said...

Mr Singh
Oddly expressed post, but I agree with everything you say.

What the f.... has 'climate change' got to do with Christianity?

The Anglican Church has lost most of its catholicism and is now a non-conformist group of social workers with a bit of community singing.
And ordaining women has done great harm, round here, to existing church attendance and failed to attract any new people. Most women priests operate a 'hugging ministry' but there aren't many you would want to hug; nobody takes them too seriously as priests because they carry little conviction and when they start wittering patronisingly about global warming (a subject upon which they make no sense because there is no sense to be made of it) they have lost it.

13 December 2009 at 17:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

philip walling, to be fair, D.Singh said the person in the pulpit was a 'he', so you are confusing the green issue with your own diatribe against women priests- who do not incidentally carry out a 'hugging ministry'. Besides which you know where the door to Rome is if you don't like the anglican church.

13 December 2009 at 18:15  
Anonymous len] said...

Phillip Walling, The Anglican Church has lost most of its Catholicism?
Surely this is a good thing! After Henry VIII was refused a divorce from his wife by the Pope, and after a major row with him, resulting in his excommunication, Henry then decided also to break away officially and formed his own church denomination with Christ (and not the Pope) as head, and himself as supreme governor, with the Archbishop of Canterbury as spiritual leader. This church would adhere to 39 Articles of Faith which were much more akin to the early church which Christ had begun. Since then, the reigning monarch has always been the supreme governor of the Church of England, the present monarch, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, being in the position at the moment.

13 December 2009 at 18:28  
Anonymous len said...

All the Anglican Church needs is someone with leadership skills and the gumption to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ without reservation and in plain language everyone can understand!

13 December 2009 at 18:33  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace,

An interesting piece of news from Yahoo News:

Part 1 (of 2)

What can we learn from Climategate -- i.e., the scandal in which hacked e-mails revealed apparent attempts by official climate scientists to manufacture a consensus on global warming by fudgung with the data and punishing dissidents?

Here's one big idea: Power corrupts.

The power to credential truth is a heady power indeed, especially. In our society, increasingly, that power lies in science alone. And so science is increasingly misused to attempt to create the kind of working public morality that every society needs.

In the process, modern liberalism risks turning science into a kind of religion, where disagreement is heresy. You can see the process at work in the hacked Climategate e-mails.

Clive Crook writes in The Atlantic Monthly blog: "The closed-mindedness of these supposed men of science, their willingness to go to any lengths to defend a preconceived message, is surprising even to me. The stink of intellectual corruption is overpowering."

John Tierney, the science columnist at The New York Times, nailed it: "Contempt for critics is evident over and over again in the hacked e-mail messages, as if the scientists were a priesthood protecting the temple from barbarians."

This is no random accident. Every society needs public moral truths to live by. A cognitive elite that loses faith in God or rational moral truth will increasingly attempt to ground public morality in science.

13 December 2009 at 19:42  
Blogger D. Singh said...

On what other grounds can we justify shutting down debates and taking action that requires sacrifice of a society's members -- and punishing defections from that sacrifice?

What, for example, could possibly justify a massive global governance machine that can tell people from the U.S. to Transylvania what kind of lightbulbs we may buy or what kind of cars to drive? Why should we create a machinery that puts politicians in charge of dispensing subsidies and exemptions that permit favored industries and businessmen to stay in business, that creates a new class of carbon billionaires? What is the rational basis for a public morality than tells Pennsylvanians that using coal is a crime, but applauds China for holding down its carbon-creating population by aborting baby girls?

For liberalism, the answer has become "science." The intellectual contempt liberals routinely express for conservatives as stupid or anti-scientific is at bottom merely a reflection of liberalism's increasingly desperate attempt to misuse science to transform itself into a new public morality -- that is, a morality legitimately entitled to discipline defectors and heretics.

Scientific knowledge is still held to be "true" in a way that other forms of knowledge are not. The world is not flat. The Earth does move. Blacks are not inferior to whites. Children do not need a mom and a dad. There is no possible argument against gay marriage. If we do not establish a system of global governance to contain production and reproduction within "sustainable" bounds, the world will come to an end. Therefore, liberals get to use government power to achieve their ends over those of others. (Hint: Which of these conclusions is not like the others?)

Yet science is a particularly fragile flower of civilization, dependent on processes that may not survive the attempt to transform it into the one true basis for public morality. History has shown us that scientists are no more exempt from the corruption of power than any other human being. Under the right political conditions scientists claimed the right to experiment on black men and to torture Jews. On a much smaller level, we've seen what happens to the reliability of academic testing when schools' income depends in part on how well students score.

It was always intellectually absurd to claim that the scientific standing of global warming was anything like that of Galileo -- a climate change model that did not predict global temperatures we have experienced over the last few years can hardly be counted on accurately to predict the weather 50 years from now.

But the problem of the corruption of science into religion remains true even if the global warmongers are right. Scientific theories are inherently falsifiable. That is what makes them scientific -- and not religious or moral propositions.

Science cannot become the basis for public morality without corrupting itself in the process.

Liberalism will have to find within itself some other capacity for moral truth, for connecting reason and virtue, or retreat ultimately from any claim in the public square larger than: because I want to, because we say so.

13 December 2009 at 19:43  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

Excluded from the Copenhagen Agenda: Environmental Modification Techniques (ENMOD) and Climate Change
The manipulation of climate for military use:

The Netherlands Minister of Environment ignored, PUBLICALLY WILLFULLY IGNORED the evidence of the fraudulous agenda of the ICC - pseudo-scientists as revealed in the e-mails brought to light by a hacker. Simply because she chose to ignore them for theye did not and do not fit her chosen ECO-sectarian religion. For that is what it is! The behaviour of these pseudo-scientists and global-warmists show every mark of a sect. NOT ONE VOICE WAS RAISED IN PROTEST! It will be impossible to deprogramme, unbrainwsh these ECO-SECTARIANS - for they refuse to even consider the facts and the truth.

This whole thing has been programmed from the start:
1: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill..."[1] The First Global Revolution, Club of Rome, an elite think-tank (David Rockefeller, Gorbachev, etc.) working with the UN.

2: "...we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public's imagination.... So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts.... Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."[2] Stanford Professor Stephen Schneider.

3: "The earth continually warms and cools. The cycle is undeniable, ancient, often abrupt, and global. It is also unstoppable. Isotopes in the ice and sediment cores, ancient tree rings, and stalagmites tell us it is linked to small changes in the irradiance of the sun."[3, page 4] Atmospheric physicist Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery, Unstoppable Global Warming

4: “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”[4] Christine Stewart, then Canadian Minister of the Environment * NOTE: Justice is NEVER built upon lies! It requires the truth, integrity, honesty!

Copied from: Green Lies and Amazing Truths

13 December 2009 at 20:41  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

The globalist think-tank The Club of Rome determined in the 1970's that the only way the people of the world would accept a world government would be if there was a global threat that humanity needed to unite against:

“The common enemy of humanity is man.*** In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.*** " - Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

*** Note: This is satan talking!

The Club of Rome’s members, including David Rockefeller, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, Ted Turner, Mikhail Gorbachev, and of course Al Gore, believe humanity requires “a common motivation, namely a common adversary” in order to realize world government.

A recent Club of Rome publication titled the "World Federalist Manifesto" states:

"A world government is the only solution to world problems, such as climate change and the global economic crisis. A world confederation that respects the sovereignty of world nations and that deals with the issues of international economy that cannot be dealt by one nation alone".
The same publication calls for a new Anglo-American alliance to supplant the role of the United Nations, a global police force, a single world currency... to save the planet, of course.

It would seem that humans need a common motivation, namely a common adversary, to organize and act together in the vacuum; such a motivation must be found to bring the divided nations together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose.

New enemies therefore have to be identified.
New strategies imagined, new weapons devised.

The common enemy of humanity is man. *NOTE: This is Satan talking! He hates people! He wants to murder us all! (John 10)

The Club of Rome is propagandizing real environmental concerns to push a globalist agenda - ultimately to establish a One World Government.

These quotes are taken directly from the Club of Rome publications "The Limits to Growth", "The First Global Revolution", and from the recent press release for the new book ""World Federalist Manifesto" by Dr. Francesco Stipo, US Director for the Club of Rome.

13 December 2009 at 20:43  
Anonymous Ghillie said...

Was not the head of the established church (of England) not in Copenhagen preaching a sermon in support of his beloved new creed of global warming. He clearly communes with higher beings than the Brown.

But if we trust in the Lord, we know that He has the power to make all things good. (Although he seems to be being overly patient with the adherents of the Great God Gaia)

13 December 2009 at 21:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man will live for ever more because of Christmas Day. What the hell more do you want for Christ sakes?

13 December 2009 at 21:41  
Anonymous Brian E. said...

As a regular church bell ringer and member of our Sunday Service Band, I can assure you that none of our band knew anything about this ringing at 3 pm. There certainly has been no request from our diocesan guild of ringers and I haven't heard any ringer elsewhere mention it. We just rang for Parish Communion and for Evensong as usual, and at 3pm I suspect all of our ringers would have been resting after a decent Sunday lunch!
I would be interested to know at which churches this ringing actually took place.

13 December 2009 at 21:50  
Blogger JPT said...

I hope that they don't ring out - it's nonsense.

13 December 2009 at 21:52  
Anonymous non mouse said...

So in view of the last two posts - the relationship between Canterbury and Browning Street appears strained. Well done ABC!!!

Now can the Church begin feeding the flock what we want and need? The Gospel - in English would be a good start. Preferably without the euSSR modifications (measurements, etc); or the denigration that dialect 'thee, and thou' is 'out of date.'**

**[[Foreigners may retain their 2nd person singular as a 'personal' and 'informal' "tu." We however, must be formal- I don't know, perhaps some hangover from the need to address overlords with due respect?]]

13 December 2009 at 22:25  
Anonymous Bob said...

It's interesting that you think Christians should have a special role in this country and our government

just as bad as some of the muslims you talk about in my view

13 December 2009 at 22:40  
Anonymous non mouse said...

- Oh - his 'prior commitment' was in chilly Copenhagen? If so, how sad ... in every way.

In any case, I'd like to add: D. Singh's post makes sense to me. I've thought for some time that marxism is destroying the very education that provided its conduit into the West -- biting off the hand, as it were.

I believe that education and knowledge can only develop through the 'Search for Truth': and that this is why they have grown under the aegis of Christianity, as opposed to other religions.

marxism, however, subverts the search. It requires the questioner always to echo that marxism is Right. (Which can only do away with the Left .... :) )

In some places, I've seen their requirement for political acquiescence ruin literature. There, all papers and criticism must be 'underpinned' by marxism - or fail and be refused publication; and creative writers must also toe the line.

I gather this began as part of the drive (sorry, 'methodology') to make the arts seem more scientific - i.e. by 'proving' a thesis derived from some existing theory or hypothesis. However, marxism refuses to consider dis-proof of its socio-economic theory should test results so indicate.

Underpinning 'scientific' enquiry with an ideology of socio-economic power can only confine 'methodology' to the same effect. Result: a global freeze on Truth.

Yes, Anti-Christ it is.

13 December 2009 at 22:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So sad, especially in light of the leaks about the underlying data. I don't agree with making large commitments ie time, money, laws without a very good reason and the genuine informed consent of the people, based on solid ground, and not hastily or in reaction to scaremongering by some or the tempation we all face to go along with the crowd or an outlet for our fears, especially when we don't understand what is happening.
I agree with helping those suffering from natural disasters, protecting the rainforest and planet (though people come first), dealing with pollution, being wise with resources and thinking about energy needs and flood planning (country by country) etc. but not the whole global warming agenda since it does not appear to be certain. I fear countries will commit what they cannot fulfill and further enslave their people with red-tape and taxes and laws, while the vulnerable in all countries do not benefit.
I,m disappointed the bells are tolling for "climate change" rather than for the churches and country in general - there is so much suffering, and we surely need God's help for the future.
I personally have been feeling for a while that we Christians ie those who profess to follow our Lord Jesus Christ in the UK and US need to become more like our Lord, and confess some of the bad things done in or not in the Name of our Lord by church, government and society, as well as thanksgiving for those freedoms and other good things we still have. Also re the spate of attacks on Chistians or Christianity, the general suffering of many and the future in light of all the crises re inter alia freedoms and finances. There are some wonderful churches and Christians, but I (personally again), think there are some wolves in leadership and the congregations, and I wish they would turn to the Lord and be kinder or quit church until they really believe (and I hope they will) - they hurt and harm some who know our Lord or are looking for Him, especially the weaker "lambs". I hope churches will become more loving and stronger in the Lord where they are not, and that God will strengthen those who leader who love Him and raise up more who will tenderly care for the flocks with truth and love. I also am concerned about both countries though not despairing, and hope that the hearts of the older will turn to the younger and vice versa. I am glad for any prominent people in churches or elsewhere who truly believe in and follow our Lord. But for those who don't but say they do - I hope they find and choose our Lord, because they are harming themselves and misrepresenting Him to a world of unbelievers, and that brings judgement on themselves and our churches and countries. Though God is patient - we have all done wrong and made mistakes and some of them may never have heard the true gospel as opposed to the false gospels of "do your best and you will be right with God and go to heaven" or "all (insert a list) religions lead to God" which bypass the offence of the cross ie our Lord had to and chose to die for us to be right with God because we are all rotten with sin in attitude as well as actions. Forgiveness from God comes only through His sacrifice - our attempts to please Him on our own are futile and lead straight to jedgement. I believe the UK and US need God's mercy and blessing, but the bible says to start with ourselves first, as individuals in the churches. I could do with prayer - examining the logs in my own eyes is not a pleasant process.

Is anyone else "burdened" right now re praying for the the UK and US, or the churches?

13 December 2009 at 23:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

re 23:17
I didn't mean to imply that wildlife and ecosystems should not be protected - people depend on them and animals and wildlife matter, and our Lord created a system which we disrupt at risk and arrogantly. Just that on those few occasions where there is a conflict, people come first. Our Lord made this planet for people. And He cares about us, animals and all His creation.

13 December 2009 at 23:37  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Not inviting the archbishop of canterbury !! good grief what next cancellation and hiding of the spending budget for political purposes !

There lies many days ahead , he has denied the proper choices and misused powers that were not his in the first place. His gathering must no doubt be asking there own questions about the wisdom of this Labour governments words , any one remember "that it was now time to down grade christmas".If these people think you can do that this gathering must have had cotton wool in there ears and a hand over there mouth.

14 December 2009 at 00:38  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Good post Your Grace.
It seems that the Christian Church is starting to go 'underground', which in the light of experience may not be a bad thing. I find the whole hush hush thing strangely bizzare, especially when accompanied by church bells pealing to celebrate a man made scam.
What were all these worthies talking about? Perhaps the new addenda of preaching the gospel? New to most of them I think. Nicky Gumble is a nice enough chap though, perhaps his prayer was due to boredom, can you imagine the scene? Or maybe they were all under house arrest to stop them spoiling Gordons 'Coup de Bell'. Off subject but equally interesting is the case report of the background in the Liverpool 'religous hate case' the chief female investigating officer seems closely connected to the gay movement, the CPS say that they would prosecute again in the same circumstances, the hotel owners face bankruptcy, the Magistrate, rightly through the case out of court, the 'plaintiff' said that she 'hadn't expected the case to go to court' & the taxpayer footed the bill for this farce. Even if it's just a case of misuse of our funds, the REAL guilty parties need thorough investigation. This persecution of Christians HAS to be stopped before it goes any further & Those who abuse their authority to do so need weeding out & disciplining. Forget the parties & soft words Mr Brown we the people want this dicrimination to stop.

14 December 2009 at 11:29  
Anonymous Voyager said...

With Bishop Venner now telling the Armed Forces about the good aspects of Taliban with respect to faith and loyalty to comrades....I suppose he will extend this "understanding"to the Waffen-SS which had strong 'faith' in its mission and strong and tested loyalty to its soldiers proven on the battlefield.

14 December 2009 at 11:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to see how political the CofE has become then look at their Advent website.

It could be straight from Greenpeace or Al Gore.

14 December 2009 at 13:11  
Blogger Wrinkled Weasel said...

Brown is desperate if he is inviting Christians into Downing Street - like the kid with the lazy eye who wandered around the playground pleading with people to be his friend.

No, Gordon, I won't be your friend. Sorry about the eye and everything, but it's your general demeanor of panic and fear that emanates from your stale clothing and your one good eye.

WV nononc

14 December 2009 at 14:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From David Lonsdale

I do hope that one of the Christian leaders prays that God's judgement descend on all those wicked politicians who have supported abortion.

And Anonymous.

I do feel burdened to pray for the UK and the US. I pray fervently for both. If we are to change the world we must first ask God to change hearts. My prayers begin with my family, move on to my Church, then to my village and finally to my nation. I also pray for Christians in the US. I have family in California which gives me a transatlantic focus.

And Dutch

No verse is more appropriate than
2 Chronicles 7 v 14.

14 December 2009 at 21:50  
Blogger Theresa said...

Can I make a small point.
Regardless of whether or not the earth is warming, fossil fuels are due to run out in a couple of generations. Would it not be prudent to switch to renewables now so that we do not die out as a species later?
Just a thought..

14 December 2009 at 23:45  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

@Theresa: Before you make any comments you must get better informed! So called fossil fuels are not fossil at all! Read the article: Oil Is NOT A Fossil Fuel - It Is Abiotic And also: Discovery backs theory oil not 'fossil fuel' New evidence supports premise that Earth produces endless supply.

Do your own google search.

We have been lied to, for obvious criminal SOVYET-MAFFIA-corporate reasons! Oil is a renewable source. In Nigeria oil fields who thought to have been dried up had refilled. This is big news which you will not hear the criminal media and the whole circus of governments etc. in Kopenhagen make mention of. On the contrary. They will point their heads of confronted with the facts and truth and take you captive for forced Sovyet-type of treatment in a luny asylum: The very place they belong themselves if they REALLY care about the world! It would be good riddens of all those fools now gathered in Kpenhagen. Where is Al-Qaida when the world needs it! It would do the whole world a world of good to be delivered from that bunch of red devils gathered in Kopenhagen this week.

15 December 2009 at 20:52  
Blogger ZZMike said...

"And he would have coughed and spluttered like a demon-possessed goblin during the incantation to Gaia for the success of Copenhagen."

From what I read recently, competing incantations for its demise are proving more powerful.

There may be some justice in the world after all.

A certian Christopher Monckton has a dialogue with a Greenpeace supporter about climate change:

It is worth watching (about 10 min). Both Monckton and the woman are quite civil, though she's eventually backed into a corner, showing that she believes mainly because she supports Greenpeace.

16 December 2009 at 07:03  

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