Tuesday, February 02, 2010

Iran’s Supreme Leader calls on British Muslims to oppose Government

Islamic Revolution Leader Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei attended the holy mausoleum of the late Imam Khomeini yesterday and recited the first sura of the Holy Qur’an to remember him. He confirmed that Her Majesty the Queen has invited him to the United Kingdom in September – an official state visit; the first ever granted to an ayatollah – and that he has been gracious to accept.

And then he made a speech, addressed to British Muslims and to imams in particular, calling for Islamic unity to contend against Government legislation which contravenes shari’a law. The Ayatollah condemned the ‘unjust limitations on the freedom of Muslims to act in accordance with their beliefs’, and he urged imams to ensure Islam’s moral teaching was always presented in its ‘entirety’ and ‘convincingly defended’ with ‘Jihadi zeal’. He told the assembled leaders to ensure their faithful knew he ‘holds them in his heart’.

He urged them warmly to welcome disaffected Christians who wanted to convert to the Islamic faith, and he looks forward to a new system of Anglo-Islam accommodating whole Christian congregations who are opposed to women or homosexual priests and bishops.

The speech has caused a few ripples in the media, but Her Majesty’s Government have made no response to what may be perceived as fomenting treason and civil unrest.

The full speech is below:

Dear Brothers,

Asalam 'Alaykum.

I welcome all of you on your hajj to Tehran, where you have come to pay your respect at the holy mausoleum of the late Imam Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic Revolution. I thank you for the kind words that Anjem Choudary has addressed to me on your behalf, and I offer you my warmest good wishes and prayers for yourselves and all the faithful of the United Kingdom entrusted to your pastoral care. Your visit to Tehran strengthens the bonds of brotherhood between the Muslim community in your country and the Islamic Republic of Iran, a brotherhood that has sustained your people's faith for decades, and today provides fresh energies for Jihad and contentment for the mawali. Even amid the pressures of a secular age, there are many signs of living faith and devotion among the Muslims of the United Kingdom. I am thinking, for example, of the enthusiasm generated by the Muslim Council of Britain in their exhortation to slaughter those who seek to destroy us, the interest aroused by Abu Hamza that the flag of Islam might fly from Number 10 Downing Street and Buckingham Palace, and the eagerness of young people to practise the Five Pillars and take part in the hajj to Mecca. On the occasion of my forthcoming State Visit to Great Britain, I shall be able to witness that faith for myself and, as successor of Ayatollah Khomeini, to strengthen and confirm it. During the months of preparation that lie ahead, be sure to encourage the Muslims of the United Kingdom in their devotion to Allah, and assure them that the Islamic Revolution Leader constantly remembers them in his prayers and holds them in his heart.

Your country is well known for its firm commitment to equality of opportunity for all members of society. Yet as you have rightly pointed out, the effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of Muslims to act in accordance with their beliefs. In some respects it actually violates shari’a law which is the natural law. I urge you to ensure that the moral teaching of Islam is always presented in its entirety and convincingly defended. Obedience to the words of Allah written in the Holy Qur’an in no way restricts the freedom of others – on the contrary, it serves their freedom by offering them the truth. Continue to insist upon your right to participate in national debate through respectful dialogue with other elements in society. In doing so, you are not only maintaining long-standing British traditions of freedom of expression and honest exchange of opinion, but you are actually giving voice to the convictions of many people who lack the means to express them: when so many of the population claim to be Muslim, how could anyone dispute Mohammed’s right to be heard?

If the full saving message of Islam is to be presented effectively and convincingly to the world, the Muslim community in your country needs to speak with a united voice. This requires not only you, the imams, but also Muslim teachers, scholars and politicians – in short all who are engaged in the task of communicating the Holy Qur’an – to be attentive to the words of Allah, who guides the whole Ummah into the truth, gathers the Brotherhood into unity and inspires us with Jihadi zeal.

Make it your concern, then, to draw on the considerable gifts of all Muslims in the United Kingdom and see that they are equipped to hand on the faith to new generations comprehensively, accurately, and with a keen awareness that in so doing they are playing their part in the mission of Islam. In a social milieu that encourages the expression of a variety of opinions on every question that arises, it is important to recognise dissent for what it is, and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a balanced and wide-ranging debate. It is the truth revealed through the Holy Qur’an and the Hadith of the Prophet Mohammed and embodied by the Islamic Republic’s commitment to the Caliphate that sets us free. The late Imam Khomeini realised this, and he left us an outstanding example of faithfulness to revealed truth by following the Shari’a wherever it led him, even at considerable personal cost. Great writers and communicators of his stature and integrity are needed in Islam today, and it is my hope that paying your respects to him will inspire many to follow in his footsteps.

Much attention has rightly been given to Ayatollah Khomeini's scholarship and politics, but it is important to remember that he saw himself first and foremost as an imam. In this Year of Jihad, I urge you to hold up to your imams and community leaders his example of dedication to the shahadah[, to salah, to sawm, to zaka and to hajj. You yourselves should set a similar example. Be close to the imams who teach faithfully in your mosques, and rekindle their sense of the enormous privilege and joy of standing among the people of Allah as Muslims. In Ayatollah Khomeini's words, "Those who are trying to bring corruption and destruction to our country in the name of democracy will be oppressed. We will oppress them by God's order and God's call to prayer.”

Indeed, since politicians are trying to destroy the Islamic life and the freedom of the Mosque, spare no effort in encouraging a new generation of foot-soldiers for Allah and emphasising to the faithful the true meaning and necessity of Islam. Encourage Muslims everywhere to express their appreciation of the shari'a imams who serve them, and to recognise the difficulties they sometimes face on account of their declining numbers and increasing pressures. The support and understanding of the Brotherhood is particularly necessary when the building of mosques is delayed and hindered through tedious planning applications. Help them to avoid any temptation to view the imams and community leaders as mere functionaries but rather to rejoice in the gift of their divine calling by Allah, a gift that can never be taken for granted.

Inter-faith dialogue assumes great importance in the United Kingdom, given the varied demographic profile of the population. As well as encouraging you in your important work in these areas, I would ask you to be generous in implementing the vision of Ayatollah Khomeini, so as to assist those groups of Muslims who wish to see the flag of Islam flying over the homes of the Prime Minister and of the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. And the British Parliament should be guided into the fullness of submission to Allah. I am convinced that, if given a warm and open-hearted welcome, the British Parliament will be a blessing for the entire Islamic world.

With these thoughts, I commend your mission to all those who have been or who have attempted to become martyrs of the faith. May Mohammed guide you always. To all of you, and to the imams, brothers and sisters of your country, I cordially impart my blessing as a pledge of peace and submission which is Islam.

The aggression and subversion of this speech have been condemned in some sections of the press; caused 'anger' among secularists; and been lauded as 'wonderful' by others, The National Secular Society are demanding that British Muslims should foot the £20 million security bill the visit of the Ayatollah is expected to cost the British taxpayer.


Blogger Nick Roberts said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 February 2010 at 10:39  
Blogger North Northwester said...

"£20 million security bill" - why do we have to pay a penny to secure the life of this evil, blasphemous, subversive muppet?

Let the Jewish mobs (I wish!) have him, I say, if the government can't find the spine or nous to exclude him, in contrast to their disgraceful treatment of the reasonable and harmless Geert Wilders.

2 February 2010 at 10:41  
Anonymous oiznop said...

Brilliant. Absolutely bloody brilliant. Cranmer you are a genius.

It'll be lost on most (Mr North Northwester seems to prove that point!) but the parallels are inescapable. Sir, you have surpassed yourself with your originality.

2 February 2010 at 10:50  
Anonymous Michael said...

What was that about Dawkins arguing at sub-GCSE level, in order to play to the already convinced crowd and score cheap (and incredibly simplistic) points?

2 February 2010 at 10:59  
Anonymous Marc said...

"Yet as you have rightly pointed out, the effect of some of the legislation designed to achieve this goal has been to impose unjust limitations on the freedom of Muslims to act in accordance with their beliefs. In some respects it actually violates shari’a law which is the natural law." That is almost verbatim what the Pope has been reported as saying by the BBC is it not - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm.

2 February 2010 at 11:00  
Anonymous Marc said...

Cf previous comment - wonder if Tatchell and the National Secular Society will therefore stage the same protests against the visit of Khamanei? Be interesting to see how protests etc at the two visits are dealt with.

2 February 2010 at 11:04  
Anonymous Michael said...

@Marc - you seem to have missed the point my friend - Cranmer is being 'clever' here, and deliberately trying to draw paralells between the Pope's comments yesterday and the Ayatollah

2 February 2010 at 11:07  
Anonymous Michael said...

that should, of course, say parallels - apologies

2 February 2010 at 11:09  
Anonymous Marc said...

Michael - yes indeed. Silly me.

2 February 2010 at 11:11  
Anonymous Martin Sewell said...

Shall those protesting the Pope also be asked to pay for his security? We surely cannot discriminate?

2 February 2010 at 12:11  
Blogger ultramontane grumpy old catholic said...

Nice one, Your Grace!

2 February 2010 at 12:16  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

This all rather odd; his speech is littered with lines that are almost identical with Pope’s speech to the English and Welsh bishops. Is this chap a plagiarist?

It does bring into sharp relief a number of issues; which is superior God or the State; the loyalty of the believers to their religions versus loyalty to the State.

However, there is a fundamental difference between the two religions as regards to democracy.

Remi Brague in his Templeton Essay (May, 2008) pointed out:

‘[O]utside the Judaeo-Christian tradition, it has been rare for thinkers to suppose that God endowed us with a nature of our own, that freedom is a part of that nature, and that it is through the exercise of that freedom, and the errors that inevitably stem from it, that we fulfil God’s plan.’

And he added (as Roger Scruton pointed out in his Templeton Essay (January, 2009), The Limits of Liberty:

‘[T]he mainstream tradition of Islam has certainly regarded freedom, both personal and political, as valuable – but valuable largely as a means to submission.’

That is one of the major reasons why ideas of liberty, security, freedom and democracy have emerged in the free west and not in the Islamic east. Each system of theology has produced different polities.

However, I am mindful that the secularists will criticise this as a tendency towards loyalty to a ‘foreign power’. But of course they won’t: the socialists have to explain why their loyalty to the EU is superior than it is to the British people, as per the Federal Constitution (which has brought the death penalty into this country upon Hegelian grounds).

2 February 2010 at 12:47  
Anonymous Ghillie said...

Deliciously wicked and convincing, Your Grace - as evinced by the swallowing, hook line and sinker, of the proposterous concept of a State visit by Iran by those who did not check your links.


2 February 2010 at 12:51  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Och! Your Grace - and I wrote all that!

2 February 2010 at 13:11  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Completely agree, if he was to visit then yes the payment of security should be funded by those that actually want him to visit.

The taxes of all those oppesed to his views should not be used to fund a visit by such a vile individual.

And you can take both these preceding paragraphs and use them against any religious figure you want.

2 February 2010 at 13:23  
Anonymous Tony B said...

"The Ayatollah condemned the ‘unjust limitations on the freedom of Muslims to act in accordance with their beliefs’, "

Oh, the irony. Only the other day you were attacking the government for trying to limit the freedom of Christians to act in accordance with their beliefs - i.e. to discriminate. Now you see where your logic leads.

2 February 2010 at 13:23  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

And another thing; have you read today’s edition of the Times: those filthy atheists (The NSS (The National (No) Smoking Society) are going to organise protests against the Pope’s visit. I just hope nuns chuck buns at ‘em!

2 February 2010 at 13:26  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

I think you need to appreciate the sarcasm of the piece Tony.

However you are correct. Most christians would be against this sort of freedom being given to the muslim people but do want to have it themselves.

A classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

However I think we should either all have the benefits the religious receive or none should because the mere belief in any religion does not make you a better person. What is good for one is good for them all since none can actually prove themselves to be the one true version.

2 February 2010 at 13:28  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

A more christian sounding comments from Mr Singh a most loving and tolerant individual.

While we are drawing comparisons between religions.

Why not just find out when a group of atheists are going to meet, then you could hijack a plane and fly it into the building.

2 February 2010 at 13:30  
Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

2 February 2010 at 13:35  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Glovner

You state that: ‘What is good for one is good for them all since none can actually prove themselves to be the one true version.’

That is a non-sense statement. In order to discover the ‘one true version’ you have to have sight of the ‘one true version’ in the first place as a standard by which to measure. You really must try and grasp the rules of logic – rather than treating us to your ceaseless gibberish.

2 February 2010 at 13:49  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Exactly my point.

So how on earth can you prove that your version is the correct?

I think you have already answered my question.

Thank you.

2 February 2010 at 13:57  
Anonymous Morus said...


2 February 2010 at 14:02  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Why is the queen (or rather Brown) sending an invitation to the leader of a pariah state who is threatening to wipe out a non-Muslim state and is calling for the Islamification of the UK?

It's a fricking disgrace! And we get to pay for the dubious privilege too.

You have to seriously wonder at the mentality of our supposed leaders...

2 February 2010 at 14:12  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Gnostic said... "You have to seriously wonder at the mentality of our supposed leaders...

You also have to seriously worry about the mentality of many of the commentators who seem to have had a sarcasm lobotomy.

Maybe it would help if His Grace had said "NOT" at the end?

2 February 2010 at 14:21  
Blogger PrimeNumbers said...

Own goal Cranmer, I'm afraid. That satire was almost worthy of something Dawkins would publish :-)

2 February 2010 at 14:30  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

You naughty, naughty ashes. Off to bed with no supper.

2 February 2010 at 14:39  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

@ Prime Numbers 14:30

You've lost me here, old chap. Which satire are we taking about (Iran's of His Grace) why is it satire and why would Dawkins publish something similar?

So sorry - could you amplify please, because I really can;t get my mind round your comment so far

2 February 2010 at 14:40  
Anonymous Anguished Soul said...

£20 million to fund his holiness's visit? In this instance, I am with the National Secular Society. Never thought I'd ever say that!

Well I guess there's a first time for everything!

2 February 2010 at 15:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brilliant, they can join the rest of us in opposing this unelected scottish mafia whom are intent on destroying england and placing her at the feet of the e.u

2 February 2010 at 15:11  
Anonymous WannabeAnglican said...

Why is that murderous thug being welcomed to the UK?

2 February 2010 at 15:17  
Anonymous WannabeAnglican said...

Oh, dear. I see I've been had. :)

I do hope His Grace is not comparing the Pope to Khamenei.

2 February 2010 at 15:20  
Blogger John.D said...

You really can be OTT at times Your Grace, I mean really? But rather amusing non the less.

2 February 2010 at 15:35  
Blogger John.D said...

Your Grace

Today is the real Ground Hog Day in Pennsylvania. I hope this has no relation to you posting about the pope's visit.

2 February 2010 at 16:16  
Anonymous Alhaji said...

We Alleykum Salaam! As a submissive to Allah, and someone who accepts the Ayatollah Benedict as Imam, although once I was a Christian of your own persuasion, I look forward, along with millions of others of the Ummah (People of God) to joining in an act of Salat with the Ayatollah when he visits Britistan.
The people of God will, of course, be joined with many kufirs who are dissatisfied with the liberal Harriet Harman Church of England. Allah hu Akhbar!

2 February 2010 at 16:36  
Anonymous Ginro said...

Also Your Grace (and slightly off topic) you said a rude word in your tweet. You said Dammit.


2 February 2010 at 17:11  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

"However, there is a fundamental difference between the two religions as regards to democracy."

Indeed, there is Mr D.Singh. Islam is a theo-democracy; a system with'limited popular sovereignty'.

2 February 2010 at 17:19  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'With limited popular sovereignty'

Is that why they execute people?

2 February 2010 at 17:24  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

no, it's because 'they' havn't as yet enforced the correct system of Islamic government and rule.

2 February 2010 at 17:28  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Could you then advise us as to how many more executions it will take to achieve that state?

2 February 2010 at 17:30  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

wallahu a'lam

2 February 2010 at 17:32  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Salus populi suprema lex

2 February 2010 at 17:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has the Pope ever attacked the European Union? Of all political institutions within the European secular world surely, this one lays much claim to the Catholic church's and the Roman Empire's former and supposed moral, spiritual and political authority?

Beatifying Cardinal Newman is nice, but hardly a rallying call to English catholics or disgruntled Anglicans.

Perhaps he needs to support the French banning the veil, or chastise the secularised and more catholic areas of the European Economic Area, such as Bavaria for instance.

Maybe he should go on a state visit to Iran and support small and oppressed Christian communities there?

2 February 2010 at 17:44  
Blogger D. Singh said...

He just did. Dontcha read the news?

Harridan Harperson's Equality Bil is based upon a European Union Directive.

2 February 2010 at 17:46  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

D. Singh 17:37

which is precisely why supreme law is Divine law.

2 February 2010 at 17:50  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

that is, in the Islamic tradition

2 February 2010 at 17:50  
Blogger D. Singh said...

And that neatly brings us to the twistedness of Islam. Somehow the safety of the people as the supreme law - became divine law - which is then used to execute people.

2 February 2010 at 18:07  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

"Own goal Cranmer, I'm afraid. That satire was almost worthy of something Dawkins would publish :-)"

Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms PrimeNumbers,

You cannot judge whether or not this is an own goal because you appear to be ignorant of the direction of the ball or even of the game being played.

And if it be 'almost worthy of something Dawkins would publish', one wonders why a gracious and courteous response to Professor Dawkins' questions has been dismissed with puerile insult-hurling - the very ad hominem attack he so despises when directed towards him.

2 February 2010 at 18:09  
Blogger srizals said...

Popeism in Islam? Hmm. This is new. Could this be the reason why Iran can't have any nuclear remnants at her disposal?

You keep saying that Singh. Where's the evidence of circumstances man? Cranmer was burnt on the stake and you are disgracing his ashes.

2 February 2010 at 18:27  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

I'm afraid Mr Singh, that you have a deeply flawed and profoundly incorrect conception of the Islamic governmental system and the Islamic state.

For most people, this seems to stem from the misconception that the Islamic state is a specific system of government. I would like to remind you at this point that Khilafa or Islamic state is a 'concept'. There is no one specific form of khilafa. therefore, the system of government run by the so-called 'Islamic Republic of Iran' does not epitomise khilafa i.e. that system of Islamic government which acts as God's vicegerent on earth and enforces his supreme law (shariah).

these executions are not as a result of divine law, but rather a result of a misconceived perception of divine law.

2 February 2010 at 18:30  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'these executions are not as a result of divine law, but rather a result of a misconceived perception of divine law.'

So now you've become an apologist for a murderous regime?

Get out of my sight.

2 February 2010 at 18:43  
Anonymous Paul B said...

This is the lowest point ever for our country. To have this bastard visit our shores as guest of the Queen (in effect us) and to extend him every courtesy in the process is beyond belief.20mil security, I hope they have to times that by a factor of 10. I truly hope the people Great Britain show their contempt for this lowlife on the streets and for the authorities to be given a bloody nose over this. This is just appalling.

2 February 2010 at 18:45  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 February 2010 at 18:50  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

you're a very strange man.

I wasn't defending the actions of the iranian regime.

I was pointing out the misuse of divine law.

2 February 2010 at 18:54  
Blogger srizals said...

Strange man indeed and I bet he doesn't wear any turban that covered his ears nor any beard to resemble the Muslims.

2 February 2010 at 18:57  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'I am required to kill, so I kill. That is enough.'


2 February 2010 at 19:00  
Blogger srizals said...

But Maximus was a holy warrior. He got caught in a taqiyya of a very cunning liar and had to kill in order to live. What's your excuse?

2 February 2010 at 19:19  
Anonymous Phowee said...


Islam has no foundation of sanity and you are attempting to dance on a lake of piss which is pointless. I know you already know this but cease form giving them the impression they are engaing in any way please.

2 February 2010 at 19:20  
Blogger srizals said...

Phewh, engaing? Is that a real name Phowee? Or an adaptation of a breed of a horse that thinks it is as big as a mule if not similar in intellect.

2 February 2010 at 19:23  
Blogger srizals said...

What? No crusaders for a late night snack for me. What a bummer. Nighty nite nightingales. I'm going to have a sweet dream tonight.

2 February 2010 at 19:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Superbly played Your Grace, you had me till the very last paragraph.


2 February 2010 at 19:45  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr srizals

At 7.19 pm.

I have no excuse, nor is one required of me.

It is my duty before God and men to defend the Judaeo-Christian faith.

2 February 2010 at 20:03  
Blogger srizals said...

Judeo-Christian? What an unholy matrimony! It's like saying Hitler-Jews Death Camp loveable affair of some sort or combining Swastika with the star of David! Do the Jews or the Zionist Jews approved this theory or they still claimed that Jesus was slain by them? Is it a love and hate kind of relationship of prophecy filling or a never could be fill gap filling activities of absurdities?

2 February 2010 at 20:23  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr srizals

Are you all right old boy? Let me guess you're in charge of one of those tropical nature reserves.

It must be the chimpanzees' lingua franca that has affected your vocabulary: incoherent gibberish.

2 February 2010 at 20:28  
Blogger srizals said...

I wonder why Paul is called Saint Paul and Jesus just Jesus Christ. Why not put Saint before Jesus Christ? Would it not be strikingly clearer? Could you tell me between Jews, atheists and Muslims, who are among the three, despise him and which group adores and awaits for him patiently? Is it the Zionists? And which prophecy?

2 February 2010 at 20:33  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Son, why don't you get some sleep? School tommorow.

You should do your homework.

2 February 2010 at 20:37  
Blogger srizals said...

Oh, not at all kind sir, but I have an unfinished business at hand, and this conversation helps keep me awake while my other half has already shut down. Where's my answer? You don't like it when Dawkins refused to address your questions, are you going to be like him? Mind my language Mr. Professor, I am but a non native of the English Crown, and most certainly would not want to sound like my former master.

2 February 2010 at 20:42  
Blogger srizals said...

Don't worry kind sir, you see, my brainwave is not similar to most of Cranmer's readers, and it was scientifically proven by a brainwave machine as to be most of the time in the alpha range, so my requirements of sleep or the needs of the average person is absolutely not the same. For instance, I don't need any stimulants or alcohol presence in my blood cells to keep me cool and cheerful. I'm actually doing some school work for tomorrow kind sir. Don't leave me be. I might sleep on the job.

2 February 2010 at 20:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

I like srizals. He’s a wonderful poster boy for Islam.

2 February 2010 at 22:17  
Anonymous Astria said...

Satan so hates the world that he shat Islam onto the face of it so that he who believes may have everlasting death. Amen

2 February 2010 at 23:39  
Anonymous FX 初心者 said...

The struggle between the two countries will be endless...

3 February 2010 at 02:57  
Anonymous not a machine said...

puzzled your grace by Melcathons post on con home although enjoyed your high end response.

Harriet has had second thoughts.

The idea that one may be termed deviant by support being turned in another way is a very interesting test of what one believes at a certain point in his/her life. Intolerance that is used as positioning begins to look a bit thin over time. Parents in a way are intolerant of there childrens inabilities , in an ideal world they would seek to educate there child and pass on a good life.

The spat with Dawkins cult is somewhat overdue , you might say it borders on intolerance.

A deviant may be politically engineered ,but spiritually is a far more serious matter , those who percieve these things know full well gods law works beyond death.

The language of our christian faith is very small , much of the things we use and do seemingly have little to do with christianity , wether one shops at tescos or sainsburys seems hardly a theological matter .

I am aware that society is changing and with it the language of daily life , if i think a poor facsimlie is being made and the christian conscience degraded , why should it become dangerous to speak about it ?? The arguments may indeed be subtle , people are by enlarge living an agnostic experience with little belief that the christianity has much to say and is moribund in dogma. The situation that they may vote on this thin meal is how our political leaders have seen how it should be .

I am open to idea that change can ocurre and hope that a new government can reverse the trends/errors that I think are present. I am hopefull that any allies I may have are gods allies ,if not who is the foolish is up for debate along with who is the lost.

I am tolerant to us having a new government that can win the arguments in that I agree . The lord won me over some time ago .

3 February 2010 at 03:26  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Hepi Neu Yer Mr Srizals, and may the Tiger do whatever it does best for you. You say you're a Malaysian, and presumably a Muslim. Maybe you've come across a few white Christians when working in the Gulf or in Malasia, anyway you don't like them. Now you've lighted upon His Grace's website and you're giving poor old Mr D Singh curry.

In your post at 20.33 on 2nd Feb you asked which religion, apart from Christianity, waits patiently for the return of Jesus Christ. I can help you Mr Srizals, its the Muslims!

So why are the Bumis burning the churches? Because the Christians are mainly Chinese, or have you thought of a better reason? The religion of peace just can't get the peace bit right, can it?

3 February 2010 at 08:49  
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3 February 2010 at 09:37  
Anonymous Hereward said...

That's not Khamenei, that's Terry Pratchett in a differnet hat.

3 February 2010 at 11:53  
Blogger srizals said...

What? The Bumis are burning churches? How many? The churches and the Bumis involved I mean. Are they comparable to what the Brits and Americans did to the churches in, let say, Dresden?

Well, to enlighten you a little bit, someone's being playing with their food, not considering their Deuteronomy or any, they kept tossing Mr.Piggy's heads inside our holy mosque, but don't worry, we won't cry like babies to the world and we won't and didn't cut off their heads for those cheap stupid stunts. Oh, some Christians do torched our mosques and suraus, well small part of it like those churches, spreading pornography and importing China dolls from China among other things (though some claimed it were the unconfucious Chinese, (so I can't proof it) and kept on intimidating the Muslims that had been a generous host to them, for almost 60 years, unlike the oppression of the same duration of time faced by the Palestinians.

Thanks for englighting us, blue dog. I mean about which particular group is waiting for Jesus.

Like what EDL had done, to holy places of Muslims and Jews, even to the resting places of the dead, could Muslims generalise all Britons such as you, (if you are a Briton) as a group of stupid narrow minded narcissists intoxicated with hate and booze.) If you don’t like such association, neither do Muslims. Got to go and perform my night prayer, the azan is calling me in the distant. Cherio. Be back here after this. Thanks.

Ps, I do like my Western friends, except one Australian guy of course. Well, he got a bad sense of humour. Muslim with bad sense of humour is as annoying as well. So considering 1 percent of all my European buddies, I say it rated quite alright. How about you? Do you have any Muslim friends?

3 February 2010 at 12:44  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Yup, and christian friends.

Don't make no odds to me, it's usually the person that matters.

Just unfortunate that a lot of the time religion can make the person quite nasty.

But not in all cases.

3 February 2010 at 13:42  
Blogger srizals said...

Thanks TheGlovner, I think it is only you that I have as an atheist friend. Cause you see, I don't go around socialising by asking people I’ve met, are you a Muslim? Are you an atheist? Or some sort like that. It would be totally rude and highly snobbish to the spine. Only in the net, sometimes, if I have to.

Rude and snobbish extremists exist everywhere. It's the nature of man I guess. To make general conclusions based on a few, upon so many would be arrogantly unwise.

3 February 2010 at 13:57  
Anonymous len said...

The recent spate of fire-bombings of Christian churches in Malaysia highlights the need to promote dialogue and understanding between religious groups. In a recent press statement, Anwar Ibrahim denounced the actions of militant Muslims, saying he was 'outraged by the tragic attacks on our Christian brothers and sisters'.

3 February 2010 at 18:44  
Anonymous len said...

Sharia for the UK ?

Sharia law is the enforcement arm of political Islam.It relies on intimidation, fear ,and oppression as a means of control and is totally incompatible with a Democracy.

It is interesting that Geert Wilders was refused entry to the UK but this Ayatollah who is inciting muslims to contend Government legislation is invited to meet the Queen.

3 February 2010 at 19:32  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Et tu, Len?

*Big sigh*

3 February 2010 at 19:35  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Wow, look before you leap may be a suitable proverb for lessons to be learned on this thread.

3 February 2010 at 19:43  
Anonymous len said...

Apologies your Grace,
Its taking longer to read through all the entries as your fame spreads.

3 February 2010 at 20:15  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

"...and is totally incompatible with a Democracy."

Jelly Bean would like to direct you to her above comment at 17:19 "Islam is a theo-democracy; a system with'limited popular sovereignty'"

so, no... not TOTALLY incompatible

3 February 2010 at 20:59  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

sorry, this is off topic, but interesting. Faith and Creationism vs. Atheism and Evolution (cambridge muslim scholar):


3 February 2010 at 21:55  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

and also, since we're on the topic of Iran(regarding Khomeini's fatwa on salman rushdie):


3 February 2010 at 22:06  
Anonymous len said...


Theo-democracy can be applied to a government which is based on respect for human rights, and all its citizens live in security, freedom, and social welfare, whereby the values and their religious wants and wishes may be freely advertised.

In theo-Democracy which is freely formed on the basis of religious thought and rationality, corruption, false accusation and dictatorship have no place and all men benefit from a healthy, joyful, and creative life.

( You having a laugh?)

3 February 2010 at 22:13  
Blogger Miss Jelly bean said...

no... i'm quite serious. no jokes, honestly.

3 February 2010 at 22:15  
Blogger Ayrdale said...

This Nigerian racist may have a point...

"As religious violence deepens in his home country, Nobel laureate and Nigerian political activist Wole Soyinka shares his unbridled thoughts on Islamic terrorism and why England is a “cesspit” with The Daily Beast’s Tunku Varadarajan...."


4 February 2010 at 01:53  
Blogger Oswin said...

I'm afraid a majority of 'British' (?) muslims already do...

5 February 2010 at 19:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every man and his dog should be there to protest against him. This is a disgrace by both the monarchy and our Government who in my mind are guilty of treason and should be shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

14 February 2010 at 20:53  

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