Saturday, March 13, 2010

The Liberal Democrats’ Spring Conference

No, please don’t yawn.

His Grace perfectly understands the anticipated tedium of such a post title, but there is one (yes, just one) agenda item worth noting which their activists will be discussing (and at least their activists get to discuss…).

The whole Conference Agenda merits a glance, but of particular note is the one entitled: ‘Religion in the workplace – Humanist & Secularist Liberal Democrats’.

“Dr Ronan McCrea LLB of the Lawyers Secular Society, a European law expert and Cllr Ruth Polling, Executive member for Equalities Islington Council, explore challenges that arise when religion intrudes in the workplace. The ICC, Hall 7b" (Conference Handbook, p27).

In case you haven’t heard of the ‘Secular and Humanist Liberal Democrats’ before...

"Human wellbeing is increasingly dependent on scientific enquiries being courageously pursued, and acted upon. The intervention of non-evidence-based dogmas, through the exercise of religious power or the manipulation of education, can constitute a threat to that wellbeing, and must be resisted."

Naturally, Dr Death Evan Harris MP is prominent among the enlightened.

They write: ‘Forty-two per cent think that the government pays too much attention to religious groups and leaders’.

Frankly, Cranmer thinks the government, the media and political parties pay too much attention to humanist and secular groups and their leaders: the coverage they achieve is quite out of proportion to those who actually profess this worldview, and certainly to those who are affiliated in any kind of membership.

In pursuit of New Labour's 'common good', it is to be observed that the state is increasingly intolerant of Christianity; all citizens are no longer equal before the law; and the only neutrality expressed by the state towards religion is that which is profoundly anti-Christian, which is no neutrality at all. Secularism is as aggressive as the most insidious religions: it is not ‘neutral’. It has its own creed, propagates its own infallible dogma, and is as corrosive to the common good as any other assertion of absolute intolerance.

Only the Illiberal Undemocrats would seek to eradicate the Christian faith from the public sphere, contrary to any notion of liberalism and antithetical to the majority democratic profession of the British people.


Anonymous philip walling said...


Liberal is another gross misrepresentation, just like socialism.

Where do these silly 'scientific' secularists think they, and the whole world, came from?

13 March 2010 at 11:29  
Anonymous martin sewell said...

I wish the Bishops would pay a little more attention.

Whilst having absolutely no time for the BNP I suspect that they pose less of a threat to the Christian witness in Society than Liberal Secularists, yet our Bishops do tend to let the latter off with scarcely a moment's thought.

13 March 2010 at 11:50  
Anonymous Mikec said...

Cain 'did it his way not Yehovah's way' and ended up committing Fratricide. In failing to carry out Yehovah's prescription of a blood sacrifice, Cain laid himself open to a Satanic impulse, that of killing Abel (through envy).

In a Yehovah-less society, all people are susceptible to violence (as we see in Islam) even though they think they know better.

How come secular humanism is seen as outside of 'non-evidence-based dogmas'. I would have though that it is at the heart of 'non-evidence-based dogmas' It is a dogma which demanded a redefinition of the word 'science' from 'a seeking of truth/knowledge' to a seeking of naturalistic truth/knowledge. Naturalistic being taken to mean truth based upon an assumption of 'macro evolution' for which there is no evidence, only speculation.

In 1840 the scientific consensus was of 'creation', then came 'origin of species' which speculated a process named 'natural selection and survival of the fittest' the creation consensus was dropped and we now have an 'evolution consensus'

As usual, the Lib-Dems are playing delusional word games.

I would challenge everyone to watch the video here:-

13 March 2010 at 12:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Been wondering how much of a religion secular humanism actually is. They can define it not to be a religion but it does act as some kind of moral change agent for other religions. The moral relativism of secularism lets them reprogram moral belief structure of the nation at will

On a side note Harris and his secular socialist buddies are trying to put forth a bill that will "modernise" the monarchy. They want to make sure the next monarch has the title of regent. I know why this is important to them, do you?

13 March 2010 at 12:55  
Anonymous Atlas Shrugged said...

Is it not a shame that the greatest language yet known to mankind is no longer fit for purpose?

It is now virtually impossible to have a worthwhile debate on any complicated issue.

So many words, terms and phrases have been corrupted that few now possess a common meaning.

As many have now taken on the 'unacceptable' status of being non-PC. We now genuinely and rightly fear using our own language in public, and progressively so in private.

How did this happen so quickly, and why?

It is important to understand that this has not happened as quickly as it may first seem. Seeds are deliberately planted at the very top of our educational establishments, usually Oxford and Cambridge Universities decades in advance of time. This particular weed, like so many others grows downwards NEVER upwards. Which is why chaps like Prince Philip are seeming immune from this growth.

After time and always before this cancerous vegetation reaches the level of ordinary people, the mass media takes up its particular highly nasty form husbandry. Better known as mind control propaganda.

Some of course being seemingly anti-PC ( The Daily Mail )and others being very much pro-PC ( The Guardian ). The net effect of which of course, ends up being exactly the same thing. For by this stage it is way too late to kill the now enormously well established plant.

We end up not trusting our own language, and the establishment win yet another battle against its own people.

13 March 2010 at 13:48  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Only the Illiberal Undemocrats would seek to eradicate the Christian faith from the public sphere…

Doesn’t Islam have much the same goal?

13 March 2010 at 13:53  
Blogger Lakester91 said...

What scares me is that such left wing anti-religious extremism is so acceptable in the public sphere, whilst any kind of right wing opinion is immediately shouted down; even such moderate ones as questioning the morality of homosexuality, euthanasia or the teaching irresponsible sex education. Though it is certainly amusingly ironic that those on the left do love to accuse the religious of indoctrination while pushing secular ethics into state schools (and even into parliament if the LDs get their way).

13 March 2010 at 14:44  
Anonymous Mikec said...

In my experience, people of the left have usually failed to think.

Whilst they may be clever, they are more driven by the need to identify with a common (fashionable) cause, and that cause tends to make them 'useful idiots' as Lenin is imputed to have said.

As 'idiots' they do not deem it necessary to either think for themselves, or alternatively think things all the way through. They therefore end up mouthing off other people's dogma, which if it is 'fashionable' enough gives an intellectual 'feel good (feel superior)' serotonin rush.

13 March 2010 at 15:01  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

It is quite shocking how left wing anti-religious extremism is so acceptable in the public sphere. The main reason for this is the take over at school level and the indoctrination of children into the brave new world of atheism. Man thinks because he has determined the shape of an atom that he holds the keys to the secrets of the universe.

They shout out loud that we who are touched by the spirit of God denounce the shape of the atom, when in truth we celebrate the wonder of science like they do, only we see the bigger picture, looking beyond the how and into the why and wherefore.

Ours is a difficult place to be, but it is never meant to be easy. Straighten your back and firm your jaw and fix your gaze ahead of the storm; and take comfort and seek refuge in the scriptures of God whom provides the more than bread that sustains us through the joys and difficulties of this realm.

It is our task to seek truth in all things and to proclaim the Gospel to the world. When we fall down, there is one who lifts us up and places our feet back on the narrow path. Amen

(Now stop posting about sickly Liberals - if you please)

13 March 2010 at 15:34  
Anonymous len said...

Gods plan for man was for man to be in communication with God through the spirit.Gods Spirit to mans spirit,direct communication.
Satan knew that if he could destroy this connection he would have man under the influence of his spirit (satans.)
This is the only strategy satan has to use, its so simple,and it works!
" You can be as god"The satanic lie,and man inflated with pride falls for it every time.
What fools we are!
Every `ism is based on this simple lie,every works based religion is based on this simple lie,and Secular Humanism ,you guessed it!

13 March 2010 at 16:07  
Anonymous postergirl said...

Where's the Defender of the Faith, when you need her ?

13 March 2010 at 17:20  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

The Humanist and Secular Liberal Democrats have adopted a similar approach to allocating rights as:

Article 34 of the 1977 of Constitution of the USSR:

'Citizens of the USSR are equal before the law, without distinction of origin, social or property status, race or nationality, sex, education, language, attitude to religion, type and nature of occupation, domicile, or other status.'

This approach allows them to claim that they want everyone to have the same rights.

Secondly, it allows them in a situation where a Christian in the workplace claims rights, for those claimed rights to be trumped by homosexual rights - thus eliminating Christianity in the public square, by establishing with the support of case law, a hierarchy of rights depositing the Judaeo-Christian firmly at the bottom of the barrel.

Why are our bishops and cardinals silent?

13 March 2010 at 18:43  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Your Grace doth vent forth from without his cassock surely. How can this be so when the House of Lords is packed with religious placemen and women.

A belief in Secularism does not place one politically anywhere at all this is abject nonsense.

Governments are falling over themselves to appease religious bodies with cash and warped logic so-called 'Faith Schools'. Children's minds are being warped with vicious fairy tales from adults against whom the cannot argue; this amounts to nothing less than child abuse.

For what it matters, I greatly resent my taxes being doled out to support these obscene belief systems that do nothing but teach elitism and intolerance of critique; alienating future generations from their peers and the realm of scientific reason.

Religion should be challenged and debunked as often as possible - they can't all lay claim to hold the golden key to understanding the meaning of life - to (their) Hell with all of them.

13 March 2010 at 18:57  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

This is Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights inserted into our Human Rights Act 1998 Schedule 1; note the similarity of approach to Article 34 of the 1977 USSR Constitution:

‘The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.’

Here is Article 21 (1) of the European Union’s Charter of Fundamental Rights; note the similarity of approach to Article 34 of the 1977 USSR Constitution:

‘Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.’

When different rights clash under these articles, for example Judaeo-Christian and homosexual rights, in a court of law the judge has to decide who is going to win and who shall lose.

Unless we get out of the EU - they will hunt down Judaeo-Christians in this country.

Again, I present the assertion that the EU combined with its sister supra-national state the Union for the Mediterranean is the Beast that arises out of the Sea in the Book of Daniel.

13 March 2010 at 19:18  
Anonymous William Wallace said...

Cranmer makes a good point when he remarks that the media coverage achieved by secularist groups is out of proportion to their membership and support.

Except in the media,of course.

13 March 2010 at 19:32  
Blogger D. Singh said...

This is a quote from the Secular and Humanist Liberal Democrats' website:

'•The principles of justice, equality, democracy and universal respect for others are intrinsic to liberal values. We respect genuinely held religious beliefs provided that they do not threaten others’ well-being or liberties, including liberty of expression.'

'Threaten' can mean wearing a cross.

The thematic-logic follows Article 34 USSR 1977 Constitution; Article 14 European Convention on Human Rights imported into domestic law under Schedule 1 Human Rights Act 1998 and Article 21(1) of the EU's Charter of Fundamntal Rights.

13 March 2010 at 19:40  
Anonymous John Malcolmson said...


//Children's minds are being warped with vicious fairy tales from adults against whom the cannot argue; this amounts to nothing less than child abuse.//

It's strange how all these abused children seem to do so well in their exams.

13 March 2010 at 20:13  
Anonymous Mikec said...


You lay claim to scientific reason, I would suggest you mean 'naturalistic' reason.

Science should be open open to all comers to posit a theory about anything and have it proven, dis proven or unproven by reproducible experimentation.

You and your ilk cloak this by saying anything not 'naturalistic' is not 'science' in order to preserve your world view from the devastating attack of modern genetics, microbiology and information theory contained in intelligent design theory.

Thus you make a 'fairy tale' of 'scientific reason'

13 March 2010 at 20:58  
Blogger Owl said...

To all "beleivers" in equality.
I train a junior football team (10 and 11 year olds) and I can assure you that not all are equal. I will send 4 to them to the trials for the county team. This is very unfair to the other 9 that I will not send, you might think. Not so, they just are not all equal.
Liberal/socialist equality is just finding the lowest common denominator.
Our comprehensive schools are energetically working towards that lowest point.
Wouldn't it be nice if someone was to consider the harm being done to our children and send these ignorant and arrogant idiots back to the the underside of the rock that they crawled out from.

13 March 2010 at 21:38  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Malcolmson

Our children may do well because Judaeo-Christians introduce them to two worlds: aim for Heaven and God will throw Earth into your lap.

It has not gone passed unnoticed that the Christian faith was prevalent when three-quarters of the world blushed under the Pax Brittanica.

The Sun never set on the Empire.

The British lion played with the Globe between his paws.

13 March 2010 at 21:39  
Blogger D. Singh said...

But today, thanks to the EU and the Socialists surrendering this nation's sacred treasure - sovereignty - the British lion is a malnourished, flea infested, mangy, feral cat - whose watery eyes looks to a new generation of Britons to change their once great nation.

13 March 2010 at 21:44  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Dreadnaught @ 18.57 said 'For what it matters, I greatly resent my taxes being doled out to support these obscene belief systems that do nothing but teach elitism and intolerance of critique; alienating future generations from their peers and the realm of scientific reason.'

Precisely. That's how Christians feel about your beliefs. The difference is that we have the numbers.

Remember that when you try your particular apostasy on the Muslims they will not argue politely but resort to some very ugly measures. Consider the fate of Pym Fortuyn in Holland.

On the subject of which let us pray that Geert Wilders becomes Dutch Prime Minister following their forthcoming general election. That will shake the EU to the core and represent the first succesful electoral protest against the Islamification and/or Secularisation of Europe.

13 March 2010 at 22:18  
Anonymous Mikec said...

Geert Wilders has yet to overcome the malevolence of the secular humanist left in Holland...

13 March 2010 at 22:38  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Why indeed is so much attention given to secularists and humanists ,they persist in preaching via other means that the earthly realm is all there is and define those who seek the faith as having a mental disorder .
The pursuit of the rule of earth and life without the recognition of the spirit , always ends badly.

The law experts is not the end destination of freedom from sin .imagine what it would look like if they did , ID cards , non faith schools , cloning, sex for pleasure , ever increasing petty persecution ........ oh hold an minute!

13 March 2010 at 23:15  
Anonymous not a machine said...

your grace in surfing the net often devoid of a call to prayer , an unlikey source of faith has appeared and made some useful articulations , namely one Peter Hitchens , who has a book out "Rage against god" .His blogg is perhaps more often noted for his critiscms of conservatives , but I defy you not to see somthing compassionate in two blogg articles in the Daily mail .
his recollections of mogedishu and the relationship with his brother .

Whilst we it seems have been taking the dangerous forces of socialism full on , Mr Hitchens is showing us somewhere else that he has seen/experienced and the consequences !

I nearly wept , as a wave of comprehension swept over me , with what these fools running our country were trying to achieve .

14 March 2010 at 03:01  
Anonymous Tony B said...

Mikec said "How come secular humanism is seen as outside of 'non-evidence-based dogmas'."

If you read it, you'll see that the comparison was between non-evidence based dogmas and science, not secular humanism.

14 March 2010 at 08:25  
Anonymous Mikec said...

"The intervention of non-evidence-based dogmas, through the exercise of religious power or the manipulation of education, can constitute a threat to that wellbeing, and must be resisted."

This is part of a statement of "raison d'etre' of secular and humanism Liberal Democrats, one must assume therefore that secular humanists do not believe that they contribute to the non-evidence based dogma'

once again I would challenge everyone to watch the video here:-

14 March 2010 at 08:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But the Liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
Isaiah 32:8

14 March 2010 at 09:20  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

Come on Cramner come clean - how did CCHQ pass on its request to you and other Tory bloggers to indulge in a spot of Lib Dem bashing? It is rather more than co-incidence how many Tory blogs are jumping to their master's orders, isn't it. It isn't although the Lib Dems lack of clear political thinking and trying to be all thiongs to all men is something new is it?

14 March 2010 at 10:27  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I'd be more impressed if they had a faction called Common Sensists who were intelligent enough to live up to their name...

14 March 2010 at 10:29  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Mikec - thank you for that!

I thought, at first, it was going to be slow and boring; but the argument and facts quickly phased(?) out the noise and some of the 'special effects.' There I was back in my sixth form spending extra hours at the microscope (and the BBC, which had some interesting stuff, in those days, as electron microscopes were developing).

As I've said before, I never had a problem reconciling science and Biblical symbolism. It's nice to see nothing much has changed! They even brought in the fact of our very lonely place in the universe.

I hope some of the idiot ill-liberals manage to tap it with what passes for their brain-cells! Those arrogant, ignorant Caesars who would enslave us in their gross, clumsy, man-made maws...

Perhaps they never heard: In the Beginning was the Word.

14 March 2010 at 10:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The secular humanist boot boys are of course the psychiatric profession. A strong belief in God or any independent thinking is technicaly a scizotypal trait. The term "subcultural norms" apply. They are removing the DSM Diagnostic Criteria for Scizotypal from the public domain so the "arcane" ways of psychiatric diagnosal is not for the plebs to know.

You think they are getting ready to burn the heretics? :)

14 March 2010 at 11:05  
Anonymous It's faith, stupid said...


Are you claiming to have unearthed a huge Tory conspiracy?

Even if it were true of His Grace's blog, which seem rather unlikely given his history, I'm not sure what your point is.

14 March 2010 at 11:59  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Allow me to agree with you for once. The secularist lobby is miniscule but seems to be rentaquote for journalists needing copy on absolutely everything. And buttock clenchingly dull, moany and nitpicky their comments are.

Perhaps a mass yawn-in outside the National Secular Society HQ is in order. On second thoughts, I can't be bothered. Time for a nap ;)

wv: forni - no cation.

14 March 2010 at 15:57  
Anonymous Graham Davis said...

Cranmer said....
“Only the Illiberal Undemocrats would seek to eradicate the Christian faith from the public sphere, contrary to any notion of liberalism and antithetical to the majority democratic profession of the British people”.

Vive Le Republic! The French have got it right. Faith reserved for the private sphere. The public sphere must be the domain of rational debate, superstition and supernatural beliefs should have to place in public life.

If you disagree with the above then please advocate the inclusion of Druids, Spiritualists, Scientologists etc, why should your crackpot beliefs take precedence over all the others? Oh I think I see the answer coming, “ because we are a Christian country”, well we are not, church attendances confirm that. Christianity has been in decline in the UK for decades, get used to it, your time is past.

And before you tell me that Christian values are responsible for all that is good in society, here is a list of all the hateful and nasty things that your religion and all the others are and have been responsible for...

... on second thoughts they would exceed the space limit of this blog, but I am sure that you are familiar with them!

15 March 2010 at 09:43  
Anonymous Graham Davis said...

superstition and supernatural beliefs should have no place in public life.

15 March 2010 at 11:40  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...


To be an apostate from Islam means to reject its tenets from a position within to with out.

Inferring scary retribution is typical of extremists of all kinds and yours is the worst example.

I laugh in your face at your self chosen crass stupidity.

15 March 2010 at 12:26  
Anonymous Graham Davis said...

Dreadnaught said...
I laugh in your face at your self chosen crass stupidity.

Verbal abuse is invariably the sign of a lost argument.

15 March 2010 at 12:47  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

@Graham Davis

You ignore Bluedog's supportive linking of my comments that are (hopefully in his case) likely to result in violence upon me from those of the 'Religion of Peace'; yet you accuse me of being abusive in retaliation?

You seem to believe in the philosophy that my enemy's enemy is my friend.

A strange and dangerous logic is that; when Islamists regard us all, religionist and atheist alike as either potential converts or casualties!

15 March 2010 at 15:21  
Anonymous len said...

Mr Davis,
Neat trick that,ask a question then answer it yourself cuts out the need to listen to the other persons opinion.
Is this the face of the new religion 'arrogant atheism'?

15 March 2010 at 19:14  
Blogger Manfarang said...

And the Conservative Humanist Association is at

17 March 2010 at 11:57  

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