Tuesday, March 02, 2010

Radovan Karadzic defends his ‘just and holy war’


To most of the West, if not all of it except Serbia, Radovan Karadzic is a war criminal: he is somewhere up there with Hitler (perhaps not quite as bad) or Mussolini (perhaps worse). He has been indicted by the UN on two counts of genocide and nine other counts of murder, extermination, persecution, forced deportation and the seizing of 200 UN hostages. He faces possible life imprisonment if convicted.

NATO has obligingly convened a Court at The Hague to bring him to justice.

Or their concept of it.

As his trial finally began, he proclaimed: "I stand before you not to defend the mere mortal that I am but to defend the greatness of a small nation. I will defend that nation of ours and their cause that is just and holy."

And he blamed the appalling suffering and bloodshed of the Bosnian war, in which upwards of 100,000 people were killed and millions displaced, on Islamic militants, the United States of America, Germany and the European Union.

He omitted one particular force, to which Cranmer will come.

If ever there were an impossible, intractable, inextricable religio-political war, it is the Balkans. And Bosnia must be the epicentre.

Mr Karadzic asserts: ‘Everything the Serbs did as part of their own legitimate defence, all of that is treated as a crime."

He showed the court a photograph of what appeared to be a Middle Eastern militant holding the severed head of a Serb fighter, an image that recalled alleged links between Bosnian Muslims and Islamist groups such as al-Qaeda.

He accused a ‘conspiracy’ of Muslims, hiding behind calls for Bosnian independence, of waging a ‘jihad’ against Serbs. He said: "They had an Islamist goal. They wanted 100 per cent power as it was in the days of the Ottoman Empire. They want Islamic fundamentalism."

He insisted that the war was not started by Serbs but began when the US and the EU triggered the break-up of multi-ethnic Yugoslavia by recognising unilateral declarations of independence from Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia.

And harking back to World War II, when Serbian partisans fought with Allied support against occupying Nazi forces, Mr Karadzic said that a vengeful Germany had rallied European powers and the US against the Serbs. He believes that the Western media had aided Muslim ‘war tricks’, including the faking of concentration camp photographs and staged atrocities in Sarajevo during the 44 month siege of the city where 12,000 civilians were killed.

Nutter? Liar? Madman?

Conspiracy theorist?

Demented?

Delusional?

Well, it is worth recalling the history, and pausing for more than a moment before we dismiss talk of a fundamentalist Muslim plot.

When you are leading an Orthodox nation as proud as Serbia which descends into war and is threatened from without by Roman Catholic Croatia and Muslim Bosnia, do you surrender? If ethnic Serbs are terrorised by Muslim Bosnians, do you simply do nothing? If the leader of the Muslims rejects power-sharing proposals and demands an Islamic republic, do you resist?

And if you resist and fight, is the cause just and holy?

Mr Karadzic said the Bosnian Muslims were the first to attack and ‘their conduct gave rise to our conduct’.

So it was self-defence.

The Serbs, he says, ‘were claiming their own territories’, and, as he observes, ‘that is not a crime’.

He further said: “It was never an intention, never any idea let alone a plan, to expel Muslims and Croats."

In a specific reference to one alleged incident, Mr Karadzic denied Serb responsibility for the 1994 shelling of the Markale market in Sarajevo, which he called ‘an illusion and a trick’. He showed video of an empty market that he claimed was shot before the shell landed, implying that the bodies were brought later. He said the media misrepresented legitimate refugee camps as concentration camps where non-Serbs were tortured and killed.

So, this was a photoshopped war?

He said the Serbs ‘wanted to live with Muslims, but not under Muslims’.

Perhaps that is not an option.

Mr Karadzic portrayed himself as a conciliator who had been prepared to compromise on Serb ambitions to preserve the Yugoslav federation or to unite predominantly Bosnian Serb territory with Serbia.

And his argument is not without merit.

The break-up of Yugoslavia is the fulfilment par excellence of the EU’s ‘regional principle’. By encouraging petty nationalisms, the EU is able ‘administer’ and ‘develop’ for its own purposes, and it is a whole lot easier to achieve this in those nations where there are already separatist movements and ethnic division (including the UK).

In 1974 Bosnian Muslims became a nation. They were in fact Slavs but were granted nationhood on the basis of a distinct religious identity. It is easily forgotten that it was Germany’s unilateral recognition of Croatia in 1989 which precipitated mass displacement of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia and bloodshed in Kosovo and Belgrade, and it is virtually expunged from the history books that Germany armed the terrorist Kosovo Liberation Army throughout the 1980s and recognised its wartime fascist puppet Croatia in order to provoke Serbia.

And it is worth remembering that Germany was first to recognise Croatia in 1991, followed swiftly by the Vatican. Croats massacred a million Serbs, gypsies and Jews mainly at the Jasenovac concentration camp between 1941-45. Archbishop Stepanic and his priests helped to run the extermination camp and carried out forced conversions of Orthodox Serbs to Roman Catholicism.

In 1998 Pope John Paul II put Cardinal Stepinac of Croatia on the road to sainthood. The Cardinal was the leading Roman Catholic figure in Ustasha-ruled Croatia during the Second World War. The issue of his beatification is as offensive to many Serbs as that of Pope Pius XII is for very many Jews.

Cranmer will say nothing more about this, other than to encourage his readers and communicants to research how many Orthodox Serbs were forcibly converted to Roman Catholicism, on pain of death.

And how many preferred death.

NATO aided the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia and Albania which Hitler and Mussolini began.

If Radovan Karadzic is a victim of anything, it is of socialism, corporatist capital, an integrated European superpower and a manipulative élite.

And for those who think Cranmer has lost the plot, jumped the shark or had a mental breakdown, consider the report in The Times of 10th November 1998, in which General Sir Michael Rose recounted a story of the ‘criminal’ Serbs who had been blamed for the destruction of entire Bosnian Croat villages. He disclosed that they had actually been ethnically cleansed by Muslims. And he also talked of the widely-held belief that the Muslim sector of Mostar had been destroyed by the Serbs: he revealed that it had in fact done by the Croats.

If Radovan Karadzic were closer to home, he might just be invited into a power-sharing government. If he were a Muslim, he would be lauded as a freedom fighter. If he were Roman Catholic, he would be asked by Channel 4 to present a programme about the ‘real Jesus’.

But he is an Orthodox Serb.

And who gives a stuff about them?

48 Comments:

Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

You’ve won my admiration – you got guts. First class analysis.

May I just add that the road from Kabul leads through Bosnia. This was the greatest foreign policy mistake by the West for at least 60 years.

Very few people realise that we were hoodwinked by the Franco-Germanic axis in the EU.

Still, at least General Rose told the truth.

No one listened.

2 March 2010 at 08:15  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Yes,this is a brave post YG. I have always suspected that this conflict had a funny smell to it and quite frankly it is bloody frightening that the wool can be pulled over our eyes so easily. It is just impossible to believe anything that we hear on the media today. Mind you, I don't think any side in the Bosnian conflict is without sin and some individuals no doubt relished the cruelty they were able to inflict.

2 March 2010 at 08:39  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

A difficult one Your Grace.

2 March 2010 at 08:56  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

By the way, I predicted a rise in the polls for a Tory lead and it is happening. My next prediction is that if they abandon the silly poster campaign and continue to espouse the Starskey and Hutch line, then they will clinch it with a healthy majority.

2 March 2010 at 09:01  
Anonymous philip walling said...

To answer your last question, I give a stuff about the Serbs.

Your article is spot on Y. G.

But what are they now going to do with Mr Karadzic?

As a test, anything that the 'international community' (W. Clinton in particular), Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, the popular western media, or any other bien pensant group supports is suspect and should be examined with the greatest care.

YG is right that the Serbs are victims of socialism, corporatist capital, the EU and 'a manipulative elite'.

I am a little surprised therefore that Y.G. was so sniffy on Sunday about Phillip Blond's influence in the Conservative Party. His thinking attempts to provide an intellectual antidote to this unholy alliance which seems to him to be at the root of many of our problems in Britain.
His interest in Belloc and Chesterton and Distributism and regret that the Tudors destroyed our 'Catholic economy' all link into this Serb question - and all that YG seems to stand against. I think Blond is on to something: the Tory Party never stood for either socialism or capitalism and it's about time the current contenders got that message across, because if they did they would be in with a landslide.
And Britain would lead the world out of the awful mess it's in.

2 March 2010 at 09:15  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

I have considerable sympathy with his position. There are times when, regrettably, I think it would be nice if we had someone like him in England!

2 March 2010 at 09:55  
Blogger Brian, follower of Deornoth said...

Silly old you, Cranmer. Didn't you know that killing people is perfectly fine if done by politically correct people?

2 March 2010 at 10:03  
Blogger Preacher said...

A good post Your Grace.
All wars are started through the greed & avarice of would be World emperors, this leads to the inevitable suffering of the people on all sides, atrocities are committed by them all & when the restraints are removed, mankinds evil, sinful nature is revealed in all its glory.
there has never been a war when this has not been so, even those nations that are dragged in to defend themselves find that a kind of madness or dare I say possesion overtakes normally mild decent people & brings out the beast in them. We are not immune from this ourselves & The holocaust shows us clearly how 'civilised' societies are just a hairs breadth from Hell. I remember seeing a grainy photo of a World War II Croatian soldier gloating & holding the head of a Serbian soldier that he had just murdered.
The worst evil is when the suffering is orchestrated from outside by evil organizations bent on world domination. All the pain, suffering & blood must be on their hands & one day when all is revealed, they will be judged for it, collectively & individually. In this World the defeated are subjected to show trials but in Gods court there are no alibis, cover ups or propaganda. I can only pray for justice for Radovan Karadzic as he faces his accusers, more cannot be asked for, but the judges in the Hague should remember that one day we all will stand in the dock & answer the charges against us & the counsel for the prosecution will be the devil himself.

2 March 2010 at 10:40  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

Bernard Connolly in his essay, The Circle of Barbed Wire (on the EU), quotes the philosopher Haznoy:

"[W]herever this principle [the imperial principle]is embedded in the heart of the state, whether this state seems on its face to be vicious or benign, it logically gives birth to conquest and to the subjugation of neighboring peoples, depending only upon the measure of force it is capable of bringing to bear."

2 March 2010 at 10:43  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Wonderful post Your Grace and how strange that the German dog should return to its vomit in the Balkans. They don't want the Turks in the EU but they can't leave the Serbs alome either. Of course the Bosnian Muslims had refined their military skills courtesy of the Third Reich, on whose behalf they formed the Handschar division of the Waffen SS.

Somehow I doubt we've heard the last of this whole story. Former Yugoslavia may have lessons applicable closer to home.

Declaration of interest: your communicant visited Yugoslavia as a guest of the Tito government at one point in his checkered career. A fascinating experience.

2 March 2010 at 10:46  
Blogger greenalien said...

Cranmer you're disgusting.

So basically in the name of Holy War of Orthodoxy and Serbs, Croatians, Slovenians and other nations of Yugoslavia should remain subjugated under serb-dominated federal government, as a part of a nation which they did not want to be.

Because unilateral declarations of independence are bad, right?

And it was self defence because Karadzic says so, right?

2 March 2010 at 10:48  
Blogger Luckywood said...

Perhaps your Grace could clarify his position.

Did the Srebrenica massacre not happen? Was Karadzic unaware of it if it did?

Is Karadzic right when he alleges that the deaths at the Markale massacre faked?

These and other factual issues are what is at stake in Karadzic's trial. Innuendo about an anti-Orthodox Christian conspiracy is not really evidence of anything except Your Grace spectacularly missing the point.

2 March 2010 at 11:27  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

Re: 'the EU's "regional principle"'
That you mentioned.

'In the imperial state, everyone is an alien and no one is an alien: everyone is part of humanity, but of an undifferentiated humanity in which no one has value. And the EU/NSU, which deliberately sets out to destroy existing demoi (its insistence on regionalism is just one expression of this drive to extinguish the possibility of the national state and replace it with an imperial state) must inevitably create a state that is not only imperial in its telos but anarchic in its ethos; in that, it will resemble Nazi Germany. The EU/NSU seeks to destroy the political sense of belonging that marked the order of sovereign national states in post-war western Europe and produced internal domestic legitimacy and protection of minorities, as well as external friendship. In so doing, the EU/NSU will force human beings to seek other foci of identity and loyalty, other expressions of belonging. The anarchy of identity based on ethnic, linguistic, racial, or religious origin, on tribe rather than nation, may very well be the result. With that could come violence, intolerance, and discrimination.'

B. Connolly, The Circle of Barbed Wire

2 March 2010 at 11:31  
Anonymous Mikec said...

Perhaps Karadzic will conveniently die in gaol, then we can have another cover up of the idea that the KLA mercenary Air Forces bombed innocent Serbian civilians.

But then, we could always commission Goldstone to publish another 'unbiased' report to say that there is no 'evidence' etc.

2 March 2010 at 11:32  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'The break-up of Yugoslavia is the fulfilment par excellence of the EU’s ‘regional principle’. By encouraging petty nationalisms, the EU is able ‘administer’ and ‘develop’ for its own purposes, and it is a whole lot easier to achieve this in those nations where there are already separatist movements and ethnic division (including the UK).'

Archbishop Cranmer, "Radovan Karadzic defends his ‘just and holy war’"

2 March 2010 at 11:43  
Blogger D. Singh said...

'Oceania was at war with Eurasia; therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.'

George Orwell, 1984

2 March 2010 at 11:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

Excellent Post Your Grace,

I suspect he will go the way of Slobodan Milosevic, and die of 'natural causes' in his cell.

PS Will Blair and Bush suffer the same fate for their indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Iraq, or the bombing of Belgrade's civilians by the RAF, with fighters launched from Italy? Blair was gagging to have a play with his new tanks.

One lives in hope.

2 March 2010 at 12:17  
Anonymous Happyness Stan said...

The RCC has been embarked on a mission to eradicate orthodox, and protestant Christianity from the world for a mighty long time.

The EU is many things, one of which is the love child of the RCC, and all the other Zionist powers that sail so covertly, subversively, and closely with HER.

There you go, all of your long post, summed up in just two long sentences.

2 March 2010 at 12:33  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Your Grace has excelled himself and raised some very interesting questions. Every side in a conflict has its story and its motivations and no doubt you will be excoriated for highlighting this most contentious of issues. Thank you for this thought-provoking post.

2 March 2010 at 13:34  
Blogger Nephilim Child said...

Your Grace,I have no doubt he Is a war criminal,just like Blair et al.

Difference is he got caught!.

2 March 2010 at 13:59  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Your Grace, I kiss the hem of your robe.

Britain has her own Radovan Karadzic. Thanks to his determination to tell the truth about Islam, the establishment has tried to imprison him and he relies on a volunteer security team for protection from Muslims. He has been physically attacked by the organization Unite Against Fascism, one of whose sponsors is David Cameron.

On Sunday, Mr Cameron described him as filth. Tellingly, that remark twins Mr Cameron with Sheikh Abdullah Hakim Quick, who delights in describing Jews as filth.

Say a prayer for our own Radavan Karadzic, Your Grace.

2 March 2010 at 14:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PETITION THAT ASHCROFT SHOULD PAY BACK TAX AVOIDANCE.

2 March 2010 at 15:40  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

Great posting: To go for truth, especially when the truth is 'inconvenient.' The EU powers are not blameless. They have behaved like an elephant in the porcelain cupboard, knowing NOTHING of the backgorund and history of Servia and the Balkan. What they know is brainwashed information by government subsidised and otherwise far from objective media: A propaganda machine much like in the Sovyet Union. Far more effective because we are still so foolish to think we are the 'free' West.

How can Western judges which are very handsomely payed...ha...would they not heed the bidding of their paymasters?... judge justly and objectively, from an informed background? They can not. So, by definition this court will NOT produce justice: It's a circus and the condemned are known beforehand.

Oh, but there ÍS a God, and someday He WÍLL Judge. And He will judge justly!

And let it be remembered: there is an AGENDA of forces unseen, yes, a conspiracy, to prepare WW III. This is part of that preaparation. So is the influx of millions of muslims in the West.

Start watching the video: World Order, interview of Eustace Mullins

2 March 2010 at 16:17  
Anonymous William Wallace said...

Hands up who thinks the EU should withdraw now from Kosovo?

If it did, they would all kiss and make up, wouldn't they?

2 March 2010 at 16:45  
Anonymous Graham Davis said...

And I suppose it is also a myth that Serb snipers killed more than 200 civilians many of them children during the siege of Sarajevo or that the massacre at Srebrenitsa of nearly 8000 unarmed, Muslim men and boys didn’t take place.

The origins of conflict may have been complex and blame cannot be apportioned 100% to one side or the other. But one thing is certain, whether Muslim Orthodox or Catholic, religion played a major part in this war as it has done in countless conflicts before.

Yet still you congratulate each other on your faith. All religion is a “curse”, a virus that invaded human consciousness in the distant past. Until it is eradicated we will never see peace or experience the harmony that human beings are capable of.

2 March 2010 at 16:57  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Wallace

My hand is up. Let them sort out their own affairs even if it means a bloody war.

I see! Only the British and Americans can have civil wars: what a patronising attitude; typical of the left-liberal.

And if they do go to war then we should supply the Serbs with guns, bombs, tanks, atillery and air-craft.

How many more conflicts does the socialist want to interfere in or start wars?

It is only a matter of time before opinion demands that Blair appears before a war crimes tribunal.

It is the EU socialist (in reality a Nazi) who is a warmonger. This is consistent with the ethos of the fascist imperial power that is the EU.

Whilst all the nations in the EU were sippng coffee and eating croissants - it was German intelligence - behind our backs supplying the Kosovans with military aid.

Why don't you give a big hand to your kraut friends?

2 March 2010 at 16:58  
Blogger OldSouth said...

From this distance of space and years, it is hard to know exactly what to think. I do remember scratching my head at the Clinton Administration insisting upon intervening militarily, with its high-altitude bombing campaign. To its embarrassment, it was revealed later that the US Air Force had demolished a number of dummy tanks, but with tremendous precision. They also dropped a cruise missile into a window of the Chinese Embassy (whoopsie-daisie!), the result of using an out-of-date Belgrade phone book.

It is hard to know, but I suspect that the EU may regret this trial, because there will be the introduction of evidence, the examination of witnesses, and a can of worms may well be opened.

A revisit of the Bosnian Muslim SS units may be refreshing, if inconvenient, as well as a review of the Croat record in the great bloodletting of the 1940's. It seems that all parties emerged unrepentant, perhaps even the Germans...

Thanks, Your Grace, for standing tall, and insisting on a full review of the record, come what may.

2 March 2010 at 17:16  
Anonymous Oswin said...

I have met many British Service men who were stationed in and around Bosnia....ALL tell of the many thousands of 'foreign Mujahadin' fighters who were similarly stationed near-by. From beginning to end, it was a great deception; or, perhaps more likely, a great 'misinterpretation'. The Serbs, vile though many may be, were doing what we now must do: keeping the muslim hordes at bay!
We bombed our natural allies; we supported our natural enemies. We, in our usual ignorance of the Baltic regions, jumped-in with our big feet and set-to without any depth of thought! It was indeed a conflict about oil....not that there was any oil in the region itself, but we were kow-towing to oil-rich muslim states. Had the 9/11 attack occured before the Balkan conflict, we would not have done what we did. The Serbs were right, and we in the West were wrong; very wrong indeed!

2 March 2010 at 17:40  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Islam is filling Europe’s faith void, says RC leader

Europe faces Islamisation because it has denied its Christian roots, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Prague has warned. Cardinal Miloslav Vlk said Europe will ‘pay dear’ for having left its spiritual foundations, and said that it was now in the last period when a chance remained to do something about it.

Cardinal Vlk made his remarks in an interview to mark his retirement after 19 years leading the Czech Roman Catholic Church. ‘Unless the Christians wake up,’ the Cardinal said, ‘life may be Islamised and Christianity will not have the strength to imprint its character on the life of people, not to say society.’

2 March 2010 at 18:58  
Anonymous bluedog said...

D Singh, one of the great ironies of history is the treatment of the Poles by the Third Reich under the leadership of an Austrian Corporal.

You will recall that it was the Poles under their heroic leader and King Jan Sobieski who successfully relieved the Turkish siege of Vienna in 1683. Even the Austrians admit this. If the Turks had invested Vienna and established a secure base the modern history of Europe may have been very different.

Quite what the Poles thought on 3rd September 1939 can only be imagined.

2 March 2010 at 20:08  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Bluedog

You are right.

Why did the German people follow that corporal form Bohemia whose only military experience was to peel potatoes in World War I?

2 March 2010 at 20:46  
Blogger grandad said...

The sensible one's among us smelled a rat in all the anti Serb propaganda at the time, by the simple expedient: it was the b.b.c. wot was gushing it forth-with such EMOTION.I remember checking my atlas at the time, when I doubted the figures for refugee's, among shrill cries of ETHNIC CLEANSING.
Acording to my Philips atlas three times the population of Kosovo fled there in under a week, on the b.b.c.'s figures.They lie about everything, if they told me that grass was green I would go outside to check.


















i

2 March 2010 at 21:36  
Anonymous Iron cross (second class) said...

D singh,

He did more than peel potatoes, whatever else you think about him, he served for several years in the front line including at least one wound. Not an outstanding military career, but not a cook either.

2 March 2010 at 21:39  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Iron Cross (second class)

There were only two brilliant generals in the Second World War: Patton (US Third Army) and Field Marshal Erwin Rommel.

I intend to meet both: shortly.

2 March 2010 at 22:03  
Blogger greenalien said...

When several months old fetuses are killed, it's murder. When Karadzic organizes ethnic cleansing and genocide, murder of innocent civilians, it's heroic fight against fanatical muslims, eh?

2 March 2010 at 22:43  
Anonymous william said...

"When Karadzic organizes ethnic cleansing and genocide, murder of innocent civilians …"

If he did. That's the issue.

In view of the documented extent to which the wool was pulled over our eyes by those seeking (very successfully, it must be said) to further a particular agenda, you seem to have a touchingly naive faith in the officially favoured narrative.

Further proof, of course, that history is written by the victors.

2 March 2010 at 22:56  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

So the ethnic cleansing, the bombing of Slovenia and Croatia, the raining down of shells onto civilians in Sarejevo and Dubrovnik (rather more than just one market place), massacres in Srebenica and many other places, the gangs of warlords who terrorised innocent civilians and to this day still exist and operate substantial drug running operations can all be excused by "the US and the EU triggered the break-up of multi-ethnic Yugoslavia by recognising unilateral declarations of independence from Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia" and similar provocations.


Yes there were attrocities committed by all sides - but perhaps Cranmer could explain how under any Christian (or other) moral code these can be used as justification for the actions of Karadzic and the bunch of thugs with which he surrounded himself. And if you think Uncle Slobo was the greater defender of Orthodox religion and a bulwark against socialism and corporate capitalism then you really have lost touch with reality.

There were injustices committed against Serbs and these should be addressed - but by no stretch of the imagination at all is Karadzic an innocent party, and I know there are many decent Serbs who would be ashamed to be associated with him.

A truly execrable post I'm afraid - and although I disagree with most things that you say, well below your normal intellectual standard.

PS I have seen the damage done by the Bosnian Serbs (and Croats and Moslems) with my own eyes - it was not photoshopped.

2 March 2010 at 23:07  
Blogger greenalien said...

No, I am sure he's in Hague because the evil NATO secular imperialists just hate orthodox leaders, who are totally innocent and didn't do anything at all.

Yeah. Must be some vast Al-Qaeda-BBC-Labourist-UN-EU conspiracy. Probably aimed at depriving Englishmen of their god given rights.

Yeah, totally an innocent victim of BBC who hates him because he's a Christian fighting a righteous fight against fanatical Islamists who eat Christian babies and are destroying the western civilization, in their spare time, when His Grace is not using them as a tool to further his religio-political agenda.

2 March 2010 at 23:12  
OpenID longrun2 said...

Your Grace makes a spirited defence of Mr Karadzic but the scattering of factual errors that I can identify makes me wonder how many there are in the bits that I do not know.
Bosnia was not a Muslim state - it was inhabited by Croats (Roman Catholic), Serbs (Orthodox) and Muslims with no overall majority.
There was no ethnic cleansing since there are a single racial grouping - the differentiation of Serbs and Croats is on religious grounds following the division of the Roman Empire between the sons of Theodosius which drew an imaginary line through the middle of what became Yugoslavia; the Bosnian Muslims are the descendants of those who converted to Islam while ruled by the Ottoman Empire.
There was no ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Albania - no Serbs lived in Albania or wanted to. Under Hoxha Albania was by far the poorest country in Europe and most Albanians live outside Albania. GNP per head has more than trebled since the fall of Communism and Albania is still one of the poorest countries with GNP per head roughly one-fifteenth of Germany's. I think you mean ethnic cleansing in Kosovo which is a region of Serbia, a majority of whose inhabitants are ethnic Albanians (political refugees and economic migrants into Yugoslavia while it was under Communist rule).
Thirdly those orchestrating the Serbian attacks on Bosnia were not righteous Orthodox Christians, they were (all or mostly) atheist Communist apparatchiks who had retained control of power in Serbia after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the splintering of Yuogoslavia.
Under Milosevic, the Serbian army acted as a force of terror in Kosovo to the extent that tens of thousands were fleeing in winter over the mountains into Albania (as I said, by far the poorest country in Europe even half-a-dozen years after the end of communist dictatorship) which could not cope and an international aid effort was launched to help Albania provide some minimal help to the refugees.
Serbia may feel it was let down by the west in 1945 because deliberate lies by communists employed as intelligence staff told them that the "Partisans" led by Tito a Croat Communist were the only true resistance to the Nazis and the royalists Serbian Chetniks who were, in fact, the more dedicated and active resistance were portrayed as collaborators in order to persuade the western powers to fund the Partisans and allow Stalin to take over the country.
However the trial is not about 1945, it is about what Karadzic and his troops did in Bosnia which was never and could never have been a threat to Serbia and where the fundamentalist Muslims were a small minority of the Muslim minority (remember that "Muslim" is a group of people many of whom had no religious knowledge or belief after 50 years of rule by an atheist communist dictatorship) so that only a megalomaniac fundamentalist or a completely paranoid non-militant or non-Muslim would think control by the fundamentalists was possible.

2 March 2010 at 23:52  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace, please be reassured that you have neither lost the plot, nor have you somersaulted over a large fish.
Actually, your take on this issue is one which I agree with.
Back in 1998, at the time of the NATO involvement, I knew nothing, or little, about the ideo-religio-political aims of Muslims in Europe. Like everyone else, I swallowed our media's biased reporting like mother's milk. "Bad, cruel Serbians", I thought, "How right NATO is to involve itself against their unjust war".
Then 9/11 happened. Then 7/7 happened (and a whole host of other happenings, in Britain). Slowly, I began to realise that this biased, false picture our media had been painting, was one-sided, and that there was surely another side to the whole Balkans conflict, a side which neither the press nor our politicians seemed willing to tell us about.

Looking at Britain today, I have absolutely no hesitation in predicting that very same conflict shall happen here within (20? 30? 40?) years' time, unless the root problem (Islamic immigration) is sorted out and dealt with, forcibly if need be.

2 March 2010 at 23:54  
Anonymous Voyager said...

It was Catholic Bavaria and its CSU which bounced Germany into breaking Croatia out of the Serbo-Croat Federation, and this left Bosnia somewhat adrift.

The nature of multi-ethnic societies so beloved of liberals is that when the carrots decide to leave the mixed veg the peas and others feel aggrieved and dislocated.

That the US under Clinton waded in and sanctioned Iranian planes landing at night carrying weapons and jihadis certainly irritated Russian and other Orthodox sensitivities.

The activities of NATO countries in destroying The Helsinki Agreement 1975 by fomenting civil war and circumventing the United Nations certainly laid groundwork for the Iraq Debacle.

Why Western capitals were so stupid as to introduce Muslim fighters from the terror zones of the Middle East and Chechnya into Southern Europe defies rational explanation. The fact is that Karadzic is not a nice man, he is after all a psychiatrist by training.....but he cannot be viewed in isolation. NOr indeed can Adolf Hitler, who was dealt a pack of cards by Woodrow Wilson at Versailles leaving German ethnic minorities victimised by newly created states in Central Europe - something repeatedly condemned by the League of Nations even before Hitler.

Indeed the Weimar Governments had a Minister for the Dispossessed Territories incorporated into Poland and Czechoslovakia and Hungary.

It is too easy to find one man to hang all culpability on and to forget that it was not entirely his own script, there were other characters in the play, if not directors and producers

3 March 2010 at 05:24  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Anonymous at 23.54, your comments are very shrewd.

Somehow the West has been seduced by its own multicultural beliefs into thinking that a muslim transported to a liberal democracy will cease to be a muslim. Our leaders have succumbed to the fear of being called racist if they resist. Frankly none of us knew enough about Islam to offer criticism on an ideological front. So now these people absorb taqquiya in their mothers milk in our midst, and plot our submission to Islam. It seems there is no such thing as a moderate muslim and they all have a propensity to become radicalised if slighted.

It is indeed easy to see the city centres of the West becoming Beirut style battle grounds with sharply divided communities living either side of a 'green line'. Perhaps Gordon Brown can see this coming. He no longer talks about the British nation, but 'our communities'.

3 March 2010 at 10:50  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Bluedog....some of us knew old lad...not that it did me any good. I have been reviled for years for my stance against Islam; but I take no pleasure in being proven correct! Circa 1958 my old wild colonial Grandmama sat me upon her knee and told me dark tales of Mohammed...they don't make 'em like that any more; she shot three muslims in 1922! Mind you, they were being revolting!

3 March 2010 at 19:16  
Blogger lpcyusa said...

Irrefutable Proof ICTY Is Corrupt Court/Irrefutable Proof the Hague Court Cannot Legitimately Prosecute Karadzic Case
picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa/
(The Documentary Secret United Nations ICC Meeting Papers Scanned Images)

This legal technicality indicates the Hague must dismiss charges against Dr Karadzic and others awaiting trials in the Hague jail; like it or not.

Unfortunately for the Signatures Of the Rome Statute United Nations member states instituting the ICC & ICTY housed at the Hague, insofar as the, Radovan Karadzic, as with the other Hague cases awaiting trial there, I personally witnessed these United Nations member states openly speaking about trading judicial appointments and verdicts for financial funding when I attended the 2001 ICC Preparatory Meetings at the UN in Manhattan making the iCTY and ICC morally incapable trying Radovan Karazdic and others.

I witnessed with my own eyes and ears when attending the 2001 Preparatory Meetings to establish an newly emergent International Criminal Court, the exact caliber of criminal corruption running so very deeply at the Hague, that it was a perfectly viable topic of legitimate conversation in those meetings I attended to debate trading verdicts AND judicial appointments, for monetary funding.

Jilly wrote:*The rep from Spain became distraught and when her country’s proposal was not taken to well by the chair of the meeting , then Spain argued in a particularly loud and noticably strongly vocal manner, “Spain (my country) strongly believes if we contribute most financial support to the Hague’s highest court, that ought to give us and other countries feeding it financially MORE direct power over its decisions.”

((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((( Instead of censoring the country representative from Spain for even bringing up this unjust, illegal and unfair judicial idea of bribery for international judicial verdicts and judicial appointments, all country representatives present in the meeting that day all treated the Spain proposition as a ”totally legitimate topic” discussed and debated it between each other for some time. I was quite shocked!
The idea was "let's discuss it." "It's a great topic to discuss."

Some countries agreed with Spain’s propositions while others did not. The point here is, bribery for judicial verdicts and judicial appointments was treated as a totally legitimate topic instead of an illegitimate toic which it is in the meeting that I attended in 2001 that day to establish the ground work for a newly emergent international criminal court.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

In particular., since "Spain" was so overtly unafraid in bringing up this topic of trading financial funding the ICC for influence over its future judicial appointments and verdicts in front of every other UN member state present that day at the UN, "Spain" must have already known by previous experience the topic of bribery was "socially acceptable" for conversation that day. They must have previously spoke about bribing the ICTY and
ICC before in meetings; this is my take an international sociological honor student. SPAIN's diplomatic gesture of international justice insofar as, Serbia, in all of this is, disgusting morally!

SPAIN HAS TAUGHT THE WORLD THE TRUE DEFINITION OF AN
"INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT."
I represented the state interests' of the Former Yugoslavia, in Darko Trifunovic’s absence in those meetings and I am proud to undertake this effort on Serbia’s behalf.

3 March 2010 at 22:21  
Blogger lpcyusa said...

What It’s Like to Chill Out With Whom the World Considers the Most Ruthless Men in the World Ratko Mladic, Radovan Karadzic and Goran Hadzic (+) Confessions of a Female War Crimes Investigator


Retrospectively, it was all so simple, natural and matter of fact being on a boat restaurant in Belgrade, sitting with, laughing, drinking a two hundred bottle of wine and chatting about war and peace while Ratko Mladic held my hand. Mladic, a man considered the world’s most ruthless war criminal since Adolf Hitler, still at large and currently having a five million dollar bounty on his head for genocide by the international community. Yet there I was with my two best friends at the time, a former Serbian diplomat, his wife, and Ratko Mladic just chilling. There was no security, nothing you’d ordinarily expect in such circumstances. Referring to himself merely as, Sharko; this is the story of it all came about.

http://sites.google.com/site/jillstarrsite/what-it-s-like-to-chill-out-with-whom-the-rest-of-the-world-considers-as-the-most-ruthless-men-in-the-world-ratko-mladic-and-radovan-karadzic-confessions-of-a-female-war-crimes-investigator
(Read My Entire Book Here For Free Now).


http://picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa
(Jill Starr's Entire American Expose Including the Secret Scanned Photo Documentary Evidence I Obtained From the CLOSED UN ICC Preparatory Meetings (2001)

http://lpcyu.instablogs.com/feed
(Jill Starr On Instablogs)

http://shops.half.ebay.com/raretofindreads
(Now Everyone Can Purchase My Rare Books)

3 March 2010 at 22:21  
Anonymous Septimus said...

Excellent post.Interesting comments
and food for thought.

4 March 2010 at 07:20  
Anonymous Bruno (Spain) said...

I respectfully suggest that you should inform yourself a bit more about Msgr. Stepinac.

He has not been canonized, but rather beatified, and your accusations against him prove that you have not sufficiently informed yourself, because they have little, if anything, to do with reality.

Best regards.

5 March 2010 at 15:09  
Blogger lpcyusa said...

Irrefutable Proof ICTY Is Corrupt Court/Irrefutable Proof the Hague Court Cannot Legitimately Prosecute Karadzic Case

picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa/
(The Documentary Secret United Nations ICC Meeting Papers Scanned Images)

This legal technicality indicates the Hague must dismiss charges against Dr Karadzic and others awaiting trials in the Hague jail; like it or not.

Unfortunately for the Signatures Of the Rome Statute United Nations member states instituting the ICC & ICTY housed at the Hague, insofar as the, Radovan Karadzic, as with the other Hague cases awaiting trial there, I personally witnessed these United Nations member states openly speaking about trading judicial appointments and verdicts for financial funding when I attended the 2001 ICC Preparatory Meetings at the UN in Manhattan making the iCTY and ICC morally incapable trying Radovan Karazdic and others.

I witnessed with my own eyes and ears when attending the 2001 Preparatory Meetings to establish an newly emergent International Criminal Court, the exact caliber of criminal corruption running so very deeply at the Hague, that it was a perfectly viable topic of legitimate conversation in those meetings I attended to debate trading verdicts AND judicial appointments, for monetary funding.

Jilly wrote:*The rep from Spain became distraught and when her country’s proposal was not taken to well by the chair of the meeting , then Spain argued in a particularly loud and noticably strongly vocal manner, “Spain (my country) strongly believes if we contribute most financial support to the Hague’s highest court, that ought to give us and other countries feeding it financially MORE direct power over its decisions.”

((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((( Instead of censoring the country representative from Spain for even bringing up this unjust, illegal and unfair judicial idea of bribery for international judicial verdicts and judicial appointments, all country representatives present in the meeting that day all treated the Spain proposition as a ”totally legitimate topic” discussed and debated it between each other for some time. I was quite shocked!
The idea was "let's discuss it." "It's a great topic to discuss."

Some countries agreed with Spain’s propositions while others did not. The point here is, bribery for judicial verdicts and judicial appointments was treated as a totally legitimate topic instead of an illegitimate toic which it is in the meeting that I attended in 2001 that day to establish the ground work for a newly emergent international criminal court.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

In particular., since "Spain" was so overtly unafraid in bringing up this topic of trading financial funding the ICC for influence over its future judicial appointments and verdicts in front of every other UN member state present that day at the UN, "Spain" must have already known by previous experience the topic of bribery was "socially acceptable" for conversation that day. They must have previously spoke about bribing the ICTY and
ICC before in meetings; this is my take an international sociological honor student. SPAIN's diplomatic gesture of international justice insofar as, Serbia, in all of this is, disgusting morally!

SPAIN HAS TAUGHT THE WORLD THE TRUE DEFINITION OF AN
"INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT."
I represented the state interests' of the Former Yugoslavia, in Darko Trifunovic’s absence in those meetings and I am proud to undertake this effort on Serbia’s behalf.

16 March 2010 at 18:36  

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