Tuesday, May 11, 2010

Ashes to ashes

Cranmer received an email after yesterday's 'Change Coalition' post from a Conservative commentator whom he greatly respects and whose opinion he values highly. It simply read:

You were the one of the last people who I expected to fall for all this :(
Before there was even a hint of Lib-Lab formal negotiation, Cranmer responded:

What is the alternative?

One must be pragmatic.

By seizing the political initiative, we retain the policy agenda. If Clegg forges a 'progressive' alliance with Brown (and he may), they will change the voting system, wreck the economy (further) and rape the constitution.

Surely short-term compromise is better than eternal oblivion?
To which the commentator responded:

I think the chances of a LibLab pact are very slim and we should realise the strength of our negotiating position. The LibDems on the family will undermine any social justice policy.
His Grace answered:

The Lib-Lab pact may be slim, but it remains. While it remains, the alternative must be expounded and supported.

It does not need to be formal coalition; it could be ad hoc. Of course our negotiating position is very strong, but it could all collapse into another general election. Some of our policies may be placed 'on hold' while the deficit is brought under control.

Is not Gove's plan for schools alone worth 6-8 months of Lib-Con compromise on other areas? Once enacted, it would be irreversible.

We obviously don't agree on this, but it's not a case, as you say, of having 'fallen' for something. If we are to avoid the greatest evil of Lib-Lab revolution, it is necessary to be pragmatic and argue for moderate, organic, Burkean reform in those areas where we can agree.

The reality is that the LibDems are as divided as the Conservatives on many social justice issues. That will work to our advantage.

Sorry to disappoint you.
No further response was received: His Grace had joined the pariah caste and was not worth engaging further.

And we are now where we are. Nick Clegg is cruising for the best offer, and that is likely to come from Gordon Brown, though God knows how he or his sucessor will deliver it.

It beggars belief that Nick Clegg is now considering a full coalition with Labour (et al) in a 'progressive' rainbow alliance.

Perhaps it should come as no surprise that he is manifestly putting party before country: quite where voting reform sits on the scale of people's priorities is anyone's guess. The LibDems were the only party to advocate PR: they achieved 23% of the vote. Ergo the policy was rejected.

And here it rears its head as the deal-breaker: Nick Clegg is not only playing king-maker; he appears to have the power to determine who the candidates for kingship should be.

Cranmer could not put up with another five years of opposition.

Ashes might just return to ashes.


Blogger Jess The Dog said...

Fear not. If Your Grace's ashes are stirred, then so will be the conscience of the nation. Such a squalid and illegitimate 'government' with no democratic mandate will be overthrown and I plan on working towards that aim. I will also return my commission (RAF officer on the Reserve List)to Her Majesty, as I cannot serve such a government.

11 May 2010 at 07:19  
Anonymous philip walling said...

There are four reasons (I can think of immediately) for this mess we're in:

1.Cameron refusing to do a deal with UKIP last year when they would have disbanded in return for a referendum on Europe;
2.His refusal to talk about immigration until Mrs Duffy broke through the wall of silence;
3. His complete silence on the economy during the campaign;
4. The parachuting into constituencies of alien candidates 'imposed' by central office.

In our neighbouring constituency here, oop north, the central office placeman did very badly in what had been a strong Tory seat (he still got in, but many traditional Tory voters were seduced by the Lib Dem local candidate); while the local candidate here did exceedingly well against a liberal who'd been in since 1974 and would have won if all the UKIP votes had gone to her.

I agree with Jess the Dog I cannot live with another five years of this scum being in power.

11 May 2010 at 07:48  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, Brown jumped before he was pushed - his position was untenable but he made himself look heroic on the way out. Now his retirement is certain, Brown's power will drain away fast and any negotiations with Clegg will be dominated by Brown's likely successor(s). Clegg is clearly not somebody with whom you can do business, so don't try. If Labour want to seal a deal with him they will realise sooner rather than later that he wants to be PM with their support. Even the second raters in the Labour party will wake up before they allow that.

No, the only correct course for Cameron is to remain independent and forget policy objectives pro tem. As I have said before, Labour will self destruct. Let them do so and take Clegg with them. By offering Clegg a deal as a coalition partner the Conservatives give him oxygen. Remember, under Clegg's leadership the Lib-Dems lost ten seats. Clegg needs to deliver to retain his job too. By denying Clegg any role the Conservatives retain the trust of their constituency; essential given that a second election is inevitable. And isn't every election a moment when party comes before country?

With respect, Your Grace's analytical skills seem temporarily in abeyance.

11 May 2010 at 07:59  
Anonymous Hans Wildebeeste said...

I suspect Clegg had at least to be seen to talk to Labour in order to carry any final decision with his party, even though the possible outcome is almost too awful to contemplate.

Mrs. Wildebeeste thinks the best way forward might be for the Lib-Lab pact to go ahead and the country to be taught a lesson it won't forget for a good while (along the lines Mervyn King has already suggested).

11 May 2010 at 08:21  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

This is not a telephonic conversation recorded by Sky news:

Mr Nick Clegg:

Look Gordon if you go, and go now I’ll do a deal with your lot? So I say old man, deal or no deal?

The Prime Minister:

"Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering male; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned male! Thus, I give up the spear!"

With apologies to Herman Melville, Moby Dick

11 May 2010 at 08:39  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Really it is too vile; I share His Grace's revulsion.

And not least of it is the tendency to blame either the system or the electorate!! Please - can't any of the self-styled diagnosticians distinguish between signs, symptoms and the cause of the disease? How can we cure it otherwise?

There is absolutely no point in reforming the system when those who man it are at best dumb, and at worst debauched, despicable, political dilettantes and placemen.

The only difference between them and a craven pack of courtiers vying for aristocratic favours is that this lot are all either foreigners or traitors, or both. Come to think of it.... that very often was the problem. We set up systems to control it, and now they're demolishing them.

And the twerps think they understand how to maintain stability..... They have no idea what it means to care about this country.

wv: torinerv

11 May 2010 at 08:45  
Anonymous len said...

Liberals if they join with Labour will
have sealed their own fate.
The scrabble for power begins,true motives will be revealed, turbulent times ahead.

11 May 2010 at 08:48  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

There WILL be another election. My own advice here is that Clegg rejects both parties because they will both stitch up the LibDems request for PR.

Let the Labour party implode and let the Tories make a hash of a minority government and take all the flack for their swinging cuts.

People keep saying that PR was not an issue with the electorate but in all actuality the Labour party should have been destroyed at this election but people voted for Labour simply to keep out the Tories; other wise they would have voted for the minority parties, especially Plaid Cymru here in Wales.

We the people want an more balanced voting system, and PR is most definitely an issue with the electorate. If there is a new Labour leader at the next election I will consider a Labour vote just to keep out the Horrors that Cameron represents.

Clegg will get smashed in the next election if he joins with the wicked policies of the Conservatives, and this Rainbow alliance would be nothing less than a disaster. Bring on the minority Tory government, the sooner the better.

At the moment every party is putting self interest before the country. They are all behaving in the usual selfish, pig-troughing way.

His Grace is a chancer, a desperado. All the priciples I have read about on here over the years seem to have melted at the first hint of warmth.

11 May 2010 at 08:51  
Blogger Edward said...

We have in this grim situation the perfect example of what will happen in the week after every general election if PR becomes the norm. The little men, from the little parties, who have lost, will become the real power brokers and push through policy that was not in the will or mind of the electorate. The Celtic fringe parties will have to be bought off at the expense of the wealth creating South East of England. Welcome to Italy, but without the good food and coffee.

11 May 2010 at 09:18  
Anonymous Tory in the Backwoods said...

Your Grace, it is natural for two left of centre parties to want to work together. When that failed, the liberals had not alternative but to approach liebour....

11 May 2010 at 09:31  
Anonymous pedant said...

Mr Brown's transparent but possibly effective plan is to put together an Unholy Alliance of useful idiots from the fringes of Britain, which will last just long enough to ram through a PR Bill designed to keep the Tories out permanently. Then it can collapse for all he cares, and good riddance to it.

Having achieved that, he will call a quick election under his new watertight anti-Tory rules.

The English will be disfranchised in their own land, reduced to the role of helots drawing water and hewing wood for their Celtic overlords.

Never underestimate the moral fervour with which these crude people see shafting the evil Tories as their chief duty to God and man.

A masterstroke! Or is it?

Mr Brown assumes that Labour MPs can be persuaded, whipped or bribed into backing him. Prepare to admire parliamentary corruption on a truly heroic scale!

But every single last vote will be needed. There is no slack to take up. There may have been no good man in Sodom or Gomorrah, but I doubt that the same is true in the Parliamentary Labour Party.

Some are honourable; fear will make a few others windy. A few is enough.

The mists have lifted. Battle lines long concealed are now plain for all to see. Gurning, leering, boasting, bombinating Mr Brown casts off his clown cloak to reveal himself as a Great Bad Man.

Meanwhile Mr Cameron, unlike Saul son of Kish, went to seek himself a kingdom - and found instead his father's asses.

11 May 2010 at 09:43  
Anonymous graham wood said...

Perhaps we are seeing in the UK's political impasse today a clear demonstration of "What you sow, you reap"
All three main parties have indulged in deceiving the electorate over the one central issue that defines what democracy is about, namely representative government.
Be clear. Our primary government is, as we all know only too well, in Brussels. That is not democracy.
All three main parties connived in deceiving the electorate over many years under the pretence that government still remains in Westminster. It does not.
Whilst the electorate do not fully understand what has happened, they know sufficiently that they have been deceived, and have voted accordingly.

On another level the three main parties and their leader have only received what they deserved.
All three deliberately perverted the normal democratic process in denying the electorate their democratic right for a vote on Lisbon- that is, on the issue 'Who governs Britain?'.

(It is the new Lisbon Treaty which is being invoked, illegally incidentally, into justifying the UK's participation in a cobbled together bailout for the Eurozone)
Did you have any say in the disposal of £billion of UK taxpayer's money for this?

All three parties are deeply secularist, Godless, and reject any remnants of Christian morality in the public square. Christian liberty of conscience is being suppressed every day through deliberate policy.
Psalm 2 encapsulates their thinking: "The Kings of the earth SET THEMSELVES, and the rulers take counsel together AGAINST the Lord........"
The present impasse could be interpreted as the Lord's reply.
Very simply:
"The Lord shall have them in derision"

So be it. They merely reap what they have sown.

11 May 2010 at 09:55  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Edward said... "We have in this grim situation the perfect example of what will happen in the week after every general election if PR becomes the norm."

For pities sake. Why oh why is it such a bad thing if after a general election parties are forced to negotiate & compromise in order to more accurately reflect the nature of the electorate? Isn't compromise & negotiation de rigueur for politics? Why is a parliament that accurately reflects the diversity of political thought expressed at the ballot box such a bad thing?

"The little men, from the little parties, who have lost, will become the real power brokers and push through policy that was not in the will or mind of the electorate."

Utter tosh. The electorate are NOT some homogeneous mass who speak with one mind or voice. In fact the dangers of the people speaking with one mind & voice are clearly laid out in scripture here: Genesis 11:6-9 (a good lesson I think for us all to reflect on in this current situation). They become arrogant tyrants who. Is the electorate not a lot more nuanced than you give us credit for? Are there not huge numbers of people who voted Conservative but would rather have UKIP's policy towards Europe. Are there not huge numbers of people who voted Labour but would rather have BNP's policy towards immigration?

Time to have grown up politics not bully boy politics.

11 May 2010 at 10:04  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

The politicians do but roll dice: the numbers belong to God.

“I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favour to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all. Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come: As fish are caught in a cruel net, or birds are taken in a snare, so men are trapped by evil times that fall unexpectedly upon them.”

Ecclesiastes 9 11-12

11 May 2010 at 10:05  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Rebel Saint @ 10.04, Edward is right. Of course the electorate is not a homogenous mass, but the electorate does reach a collective view at any given time.

If you want to see an example of PR at work in the English speaking world, take a look at New Zealand. Fortunately NZ is currently blessed with an excellent PM leading a broad coalition, see wikipedia on NZ politics. However the experience of PR in NZ is considered unsatisfactory and there is a growing consensus that it has been a mistake.

The smack of firm government, to use Harold Wilson's slightly kinky term, is not necessarily bully boy politics, neither is it less than grown up.

Jared Gaites, surely a man of your inteligence can see that swingeing (as opposed to swinging) cuts are required by the next government of whatever stripe.

11 May 2010 at 11:14  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Rebel Saint, I agree with you except that this lot are incapable of identifying the wishes of the electorate, let alone of trying to accommodate them. All they are doing is finding a way - using their own employees and favourites - to push the communist and euro agenda onto the us.

Our hard-won system was developed so as to work for the people and in our interests: we had our ways of adapting it to suit our needs. Retaining that is not in the interests of the foreign monsters; who really cannot stand that we have been free of them, and usually more successful than them, for so long.

PR is just one more nail in the almost completed coffin that is designed to bury British Freedom and turn us into an inferior, ignorant, primitive, fifth-world, squabbling bunch of debauched serfs and industrial slaves.

None of us should sustain the onslaught any longer. We need to figure out how they've rendered their propaganda effective, reverse it, and unite against them.

We are all British Celts, and that is what British Celts have always done: it's just that those in the lowland of England have been more vulnerable and have suffered more invasion and subjugation than the others. Perhaps that's why we tend to be what we now label Conservative. But the ones who refuse to recognise that the "English" are also predominantly Celts/Vikings are conservative in a different way - and they don't all recognise how they're being deprived of their heritage.

There's time to sort our own differences afterwards.

11 May 2010 at 11:19  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

It says a lot for the LibDems' belief in PR if they are prepared to ensure that the party with the most votes is excluded from power.
Whilst it might suit them now, I don't think it will serve them well in the longer term, having revealed their true colours.

11 May 2010 at 12:31  
Blogger English Viking said...

Surely this is just about Cameron stamping his feet, because he wants his sweeties now and not in a few months?

A man of vision, a real leader, would be able to see that a Lib-Lab alliance still does not have enough seats to defeat the Cons in opposition, and a 'rainbow alliance' would not last 3 months, and it supposes that all current Labour MP's would toe the party line. I think at least 20 most certainly would not.

Cast iron Dave should tell the Libs where to go, defeat a hotch-potch coalition at the Queen's Speech and trigger another election. Failing that, he could be a real man and orchestrate mass demonstrations and a national strike until the losers of the election clear out of Government. But he won't. Because he is a short-sighted, money-grabbing, craven opportunist with a mentality more concerned with his own position and wealth than that of the nation.

What an odious man he is.

11 May 2010 at 12:52  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

'...We need to figure out how they've rendered their propaganda effective, reverse it, and unite against them...'

Quite right, Mr No Nonny.

It was done when Blair blagged his way into Downing Street with his vacuous promises. The writing was on the wall on that fateful day in 1997 with his triumphal entry into Downing St, surrounded apparently by a spontaneous adoring crowd of thankful British people, waving flags and scattering rose petals.

In that moment appearance took the place of reality, as the spontaneous demo was in fact orchestrated by Campbell, and the mass of supporters had been bussed in. TV was suborned into selecting the best shots. Our government had become a branch of Hollywood.

Blair was, of course, completely incompetent at all but media manipulation -- but that was all that was needed. He fiddled with the constitution, with the offices of state, with the Union and with the Lords. His co-conspirators (i.e. the parliamentary Labour Party) were so grateful for their taste of power, they willingly turned a blind eye to the emptiness and incompetence of what was happening.

Blair was like a spoiled child with a toy, from which he kept pulling bits and throwing them on the floor, neither realising nor caring that they were all part of a minutely evolved structure which he was progressively unravelling.

We were bombarded with 'emotional intelligence' and sound bites. Remember Mrs Thatcher's long and profound address recently reproduced by Cranny? Who now would listen attentively to a speech of such length and subtlety? Read, in addition, the closely argued speeches of Enoch Powell, or Keith Joseph, or any of a dozen other politicians from a previous generation.

People have been so infantilised by TV and by our criminally neglectful education system that most of them can't follow an argument any more.

So that's how they've rendered their propaganda effective. How to reverse it is beyond me.

11 May 2010 at 12:53  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Mr English Viking opines:
'...Cast iron Dave should tell the Libs where to go, defeat a hotch-potch coalition at the Queen's Speech and trigger another election. Failing that, he could be a real man and orchestrate mass demonstrations and a national strike until the losers of the election clear out of Government. But he won't. Because he is a short-sighted, money-grabbing, craven opportunist with a mentality more concerned with his own position and wealth than that of the nation.'

There's an elephant of truth in what you say, Mr EV.

The real tell-tale is the fact that Cast-Iron Cam went into negotiations with the Lib Dims in a shameful, unprincipled power- grab. Now he has put himself in a position where Cleggy is able to conduct a Dutch auction.

Had he simply said from the outse, 'We are the largest party; do whatever you like, we shall oppose you,' he would have retained some credibility, But now if he falls back on that option he will look like a sore loser.

He has, in my opinion, one more chance (which he almost certainly will not seize): he should say,

'We promised that no more powers would be handed over to the EU without the explicit consent of the British people, and now, within a few days of the general election, our husk of a government has committed us, beyond our means, to supporting a currency of which we are not a part, simply because a treaty that the British people did not endorse obliges us to do so.

'The Lib Dems and the Labour Party are both in favour of that crippling commitment. We are not, and we believe the British people are not. We therefore promise, without qualification, that when we are in power we will institute a referendum on the decision to spend your taxes on supporting the bail-out of the unsustainable and wasteful economies of other European countries.

That might be enough to mollify those of us who were proud contributors to the UKIP effect. He could then safely bring down the Lib-Lab minority rump, safe in the knowledge that either he would romp home in the subsequent general election, or that, as a minority government, no opposition would dare vote against such a measure.

Cast-Iron Cam won't do it, of course, because that would mean putting his money where his mouth is.

11 May 2010 at 13:09  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Nonny said:-

We are all British Celts, and that is what British Celts have always done

Run this one past D Singh have you? Another well thought out piece of crappage from MrN.

11 May 2010 at 14:04  
Blogger D. Singh said...

The provenance of the name ‘D Singh’ has not been established. There is no requirement upon no nonny to take the suggested action.

Dreadnaught: why don’t you come over from the dark side to the light side?

Upon that straight and narrow path we can show you where the iron crosses grow.

11 May 2010 at 14:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the late colonies, I find myself mesmerized by the drama of this election. I admit to only partial knowledge of your "un-written" (is it still?) constitution, but since it is technically HM's government, could HM not engage directly and - you know- govern as sovereign?

Perhaps I betray my ignorance, but as you noted in an earlier posting, stranger things are afoot- there is a real possibility of a Hapsburg pope again...

11 May 2010 at 14:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The LibDems were the only party to advocate PR: they achieved 23% of the vote. Ergo the policy was rejected."

Er, did I miss this being a referendum on a single issue?

11 May 2010 at 14:30  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Clegg has discovered his true self as the only 'piece of skirt' on the island, following the ship-wreck of our hopes.

However his new found conceits are beginning to rival those of that other great whore: she, late of Babylon!

Clegg, like that of Babylon, offers the chalice ''full of the abominations and filthiness of her fornication.......and upon her forehead was a name written...THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH''!!!!

I say ditch the bitch and try to govern. When it becomes impossible to do so (in about six weeks?)go back to the country and ask the people for a clear mandate to do so.

It would be expensive; but it would be honourable, honest, democratic and right to do so. It would also show that the Tories had the balls for the job.

Cameron, don't put YOURS into Clegg's hands!

11 May 2010 at 16:13  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Clegg should learn from the fate of Lemsip Optic, that other 'fair-weather' friend, who dallied with cheeky girls and suffered for it!

11 May 2010 at 16:22  
Anonymous len said...

The Social Democrats were absorbed by the Liberals in 1988, it would be poetic justice if the Labour Party returned the favour.

11 May 2010 at 18:06  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Thank you Mr Singh but no thanks - any way, don't Iron Crosses belong with the Nazis - I fancy Nonny may be interested in one. (I jest)

11 May 2010 at 18:10  
Blogger GW said...

The Conservatives have an overall majority of 62.

In England, that is.

If there is a referendum on PR there can also be one on an English Parliament.

11 May 2010 at 18:46  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Run this one past D Singh have you? Dreadnought, you can't get anything right can you?

The facts of my provenance are as obscure to you as Mr. Singh's are to us both. Neither do you assure that your DNA proves any of us a minority indigene possessed of non-Celtic genetic substrate... of the classes identified by the Oxford studies I've frequently referenced on these pages. Your discourse proves you no better versed, or more thoughtful, about early British history and culture.

You are also ignorant of my crosses - which happen to be silver. While cognizant of the spiritual symbolism of gold, I have a personal conflict about wearing it to represent other aspects of Christianity.

That kind of sensitivity is clearly beyond your ken. I assure you, however, that I don't sport iron jewellery; indeed my forebears contended against it as strongly as other Britons. Iron is relevant to my previous post, however - because there can be little doubt that Commies infiltrated British Celts who worked in the iron and steel industries. 'Class hatred' is a marx/engels re-inscription of our history, I say.

You also want perception on Arthur/Martha identification. I've never understood what it is to "think like a man;" although I I am aware of the northern tradition of strong-minded women, and of the Celtic history of warrior queens (Boudicca and Cartimandua both fought for pre-England, as I recall). My posts, please observe, do not manifest a masculine vocabulary (uintentionally in quotations, even). Furthermore, your lexicon offends me.

11 May 2010 at 23:33  
Anonymous no nonny said...

Anabaptist @1309 - yes, thank you. It is a huge problem. Bezmenov/Schuman reckoned on at least 3 generations to 'restore patriotism' - through education.

Has it maybe taken them longer than that to unravel it? I used to defend Enoch Powell against dyed in the wool Labour supporters while walking home from our old grammar school... (which they have since torn apart; sold off the lovely oak panelling, etc.). Furthermore, when people walked out of cinemas during the national anthem, others in that place told me, "They've had enough."

The disintegration is hard to deal with - your picture of Tony Blair is absolutely consistent with what later education taught me about Deconstruction Theory; you show exactly how it works in practice.
Restoration of the tapestry, even if possible, would require infinite patience, love, and skill in the face of those who'd rather tear it apart again. A rougher patchwork might serve present-day topography, I guess. But even that demands knowledge, thought, and work.

I wish we knew how to begin it.

12 May 2010 at 01:09  

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