Tuesday, June 01, 2010

Israel, the ‘peace activists’ and ‘world fury’

Cranmer received an email this morning:

Dear Archbishop Cranmer

I am sure you have seen footage of the IDF taking over the aid convoys for Gaza. It can be no surprise. We should all know the Israelis will do anything to prolong the suffering of the Gazans. They are good at producing atrocities like this. After all, Israel is a racist apartheid state. My thoughts are, though, how are you going to defend your "plucky little Israel" after such sickening behaviour towards people delivering humanitarian aid?

Perhaps you would care to watch this You Tube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xyIUju91DE Do you think Jesus would approve of the IDF's actions there?

Yours sincerely


(Name removed at the author's insistence [21 of them], because he now considers his communication to have been 'wrong, foolish, naive, badly written and a mistake', and His Grace has caused him 'a lot of stress' because he 'will face a lot of unwanted attention as a result if [his] name remains'. Being a sympathetic, understanding and compassionate sort of Christian, His Grace therefore grants the author anonymity).
There is no better assurance than a post on anything to do with Israel to bring out the extremists, the unthinking, the irrational and the obtuse. And doubtless the ensuing thread will not disappoint.

In response to Mr X's final question, the answer is unequivocally ‘no’: Mohammed is the one who both used and condoned violence, death and destruction; Jesus refused to take up arms.

But the question is not one of speculating on what Jesus would have done, but on the example set to your co-religionists by Mohammed.

Whatever one’s knee-jerk reaction to Israel’s action against the flotilla of ships heading for Gaza, please watch the video embedded above. And then consider that these IDF soldiers were simply doing their job, obeying orders, and were instructed to use ‘minimum force’.

And then consider, as an armed soldier, faced with this degree of life-threatening violence and hostility from those who profess to be ‘peace activists’, whether or not you would use your weapon to defend yourself.

Consider that these 'aid workers' tried to stab and beat Israeli soldiers to death with iron bars. And then ask yourself if you would consider shooting the assassins and that such a response might be ‘proportionate’.

If your answer is ‘no’, then perhaps you are content to retaliate with a paintball gun and tell the IDF to martyr themselves for YHWH.

The reality is that the Mavi Marmara was on a mission, and that mission, according to Gaza’s Professor Abd al Fatah Nu’man, was to ‘awaken the nation’, to spread ‘the Islamic message worldwide: Islam is coming’ and that ‘these are people who wish to be martyred for the sake of Allah; as much as they want to reach Gaza’.

Further, according to Al Jazeera, these ‘peace activists’ were preparing for violence and described martyrdom as a ‘happy ending’.

If these were simply ‘peace activists’ concerned with nothing but loving their neighbour, then Jesus must have been a jihadist.

The so-called Gaza flotilla comprised eight ships and about 800 people. It was not assembled by peace-loving humanitarians primarily worried about relieving the suffering of Gaza residents; the people of Gaza already have access to food, medicine and other relief supplies provided by both Egypt and Israel. But both countries – jointly and with full military cooperation – have sought to limit the importing of military equipment or arms into Gaza which is compromising the security of both nations. In 2007, Israel and Egypt tightened the blockade of Gaza after the Islamist movement Hamas took power there. It is known by all countries in the region that ‘aid ships’ heading for Gaza have been a front for the importing of all manner of weapons and arms with which Hamas continue indiscriminately to murder and maim Israeli civilians irrespective of race or creed and to destabilise the Egyptian government.

The sea blockade along the Gaza strip is therefore considered necessary for the peace and security of the region.

Israel's actions in boarding the flotilla of ships bound for the Gaza Strip were entirely justified, and it is clear that numerous warnings were given which were ignored. Unfortunately, a legitimate military operation has become a political fiasco which only does further damage to the Israel’s tattered international reputation.

But the IDF are neither politicians nor PR professionals: in a war zone, they are not concerned with the BBC’s ‘world fury’.

Of course one should ‘deplore’ the loss of life, as David Cameron has done.

But it is naïve in the extreme to call on the Israeli government to lift their blockade on Gaza.

When Foreign Secretary William Hague calls for a ‘durable resolution to the Gaza crisis’, he appears not to realise that for the majority of Islamic countries this means a one-state solution called Palestine with the inconsequential slaughter of the Jews: the ‘two-state’ compromise has been on offer for over a decade and has been consistently rejected by both the PLO and Hamas. They want one state with Jerusalem as their capital.

Cranmer has already offered a mediated solution.

And if one requires evidence of the extremists, the unthinking, the irrational and the obtuse, consider that pro-Palestinian protestors in the UK have gathered in their thousands in London, Bristol and Manchester, where campaigners have threatened and intimidated BBC employees, targeted a BBC building, smashing doors and placing a Palestinian flag on the roof.

Anti-Israel, Hamas-supporting protestors targeting the pathologically anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian BBC?

Mr X, do you think Mohammed would approve of the actions of your co-religionists there?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have absolutely no sympathy for the provocators (I refuse to call them peace activists), and cannot understand how people can think Israeli action was tantamount to piracy. Still, it's meaningless to say you 'deplore' loss of life - who exactly would stand up and say that they 'applaud' the loss of life?

1 June 2010 at 08:58  
Blogger Gerv said...

Here's another video I saw linked to (of course, I have no way of verifying its authenticity):



1 June 2010 at 09:11  
Blogger Edwin Moore said...

Excellent piece thanks.

1 June 2010 at 09:32  
Anonymous eeldaimun said...

Your Grace, thank you for this post.

1 June 2010 at 09:37  
Blogger English Viking said...

The sooner we in the West realise that Israel is fighting the front-line of a war which is rapidly spreading this way, and in which we ourselves are engaged, the better.

The scenes on this ship show soldiers boarding a ship which has illegally entered Israeli waters. The soldiers were viciously attacked (I'm amazed none of them were beaten to death) and their lives were clearly in danger. They did what soldiers do when attacked; fight back. Every left leaning, trendy liberal with a bleeding heart is queuing up to place their pro-'Palestinian' credentials on the table. I can hear Bono and Sting, the Greenham Common lesbians, David Dimbleby and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown now, all wittering about the 'evil Israelis', and all the mindless sheep watching, bleating along with them.

This war is being fought in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Kenya, in fact just about anywhere the backward, desert cult of Mohammedism is found. It is being played out in Paris, London, Copenhagen, Oslo and numerous other places that are having their feeding hands bitten.

Israel deserves all good people's support, not just with words, but with deeds as well.

Below are the words of a man who new a thing or two about standing up to fascists and murderers, spoken in 1899. What would Winston Churchill think now, and would he be locked up for saying it?

'How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.'

1 June 2010 at 09:49  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

A blockade is a perfectly respectable activity, it has and is being used by many countries.
The Israeli aim is, not to prevent food and medicines arriving in Gaza, but prevent arms. If these ships only had legitimate cargoes, there should have been no objection to a search. In practice they carried far more people than the crew required to man the ships, and, whether they had arms on board or not, were clearly trying to provoke the Israelis.
From the BBC's description of events, I assume that they would describe bin Laden as the leader of a group of peace activists!

1 June 2010 at 09:56  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Cranmer said...

The sea blockade along the Gaza strip is therefore considered necessary for the peace and security of the region.

Not so it is off “benefit” only to Israel. But let’s get to the heart of the matter, there is an unhealthy alliance between Christians and Jews, they often refer to each other as cousins, this is coupled with hostility towards Islam.

The result of this alliance is the primary reason why the Palestinian “problem has not been resolved. With the blessing of the Christian Right every US administration since the founding of Israel has unquestioningly supported it. It is the root cause in the rise of Islamofascism and terrorism. Add to this the flood of ethnically European people into the Arab lands over the last 60 years.

The quarrel between the Abrahamic religions has been responsible for a millennia of conflict. The absurd claims and counter claims over “God given” territory belong to the dark ages and yet they still pollute the minds of millions of people.

The State of Israel proclaims democratic values and the rule of law and yet it often behaves in a manner that is indistinguishable from the terrorists that it confronts.

This is what religion has done for mankind, I wish a plague on all your houses!

1 June 2010 at 10:08  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Israel has every right to protect itself and so has any country from without its borders as it has done for the past three years. These western dupes on board are merely the useful idiots will no doubt have been lead by hard line Hamas thugs and activists.

The BBC has long declared its bias for the Arabs, and as usual omits any references to the threats of the Hamas regieme while overstating the work of the so called 'Peace activists'

The fact that Iranian backed Hamas has in its Charter a clause calling for the obliteration if the Israeli State is never dwelt on - only the 'human interest' angles from the Arab perspective of course.

There is no further discussion required as to the state of affairs between the two administrations to suggest anything other than is not a formal state of war then a very tenuous peace or 'phoney war'.

As usual the Islamists have lead the way in a display of their mastery of the art of propaganda.

This publicity stunt has been known about for a long time and the Israelis and the West could have done so much more to publicise the event and spike the Hamas machine.
Israel has been very slow off the blocks this time and has contributed by running headlong into this trap by its uncharacteristic tardiness.

I only hope that sufficient military hardware is found on these ships to justify the firing live rounds.

For William Vague to start calling for evidence of British casualties irrespective of their part in the exercise to me indicates a sop to the Muslims in this country to refrain from taking to the streets as they no doubt will.

Is this Islam's precursor to all out war with Israel? - could be.

1 June 2010 at 10:22  
Blogger English Viking said...

Graham Davis,

You appear to be suffering some kind of mental illness (other than atheism), possibly Stockholm Syndrome.

Europeans flooding into Arab lands? Twaddle.

Israel is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East. It allows muslims to become Israeli citizens (freedom of religion), it allows peaceful protest (freedom of association and speech), it holds verifiably fair elections, with voters free from coercion. None of the Arab nations allow these things, indeed a Jew is not allowed to enter Mecca, on pain of death, yet the muslims have erected a monstrosity on Temple Mount in Jerusalem and insist the Jewish capital is theirs.

The only thing worse than the desert cult is a Fifth Columnist.

1 June 2010 at 10:29  
Blogger Scrigg said...

So let me get this clear. If you attack a ship with helicopters and armed commandos and kill ten people, but get your head kicked in in the process, then you somehow become the victim?

Only Israel could pull that one off.

1 June 2010 at 10:45  
Blogger Simon Harley said...

Scrigg, how does landing troops on a vessel count as an attack? If the Israelis had abseiled down, guns blazing before their boots hit the deck, then you might have a point.

But they weren't, and you don't.

1 June 2010 at 10:51  
Blogger JamesD'Troy said...

"It is the root cause in the rise of Islamofascism and terrorism."

I'll assume this is satire. However, if it isn't it is fundamentally flawed. Yes, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is nasty, bitter, and long standing and should be addressed on its own terms. Yet, you miss a fundamental issue. Even if Israel did NOT exist the problems inherent within Islam would still have to be dealt with(as they are now) in places like India, Thailand, the Philippines, Sudan, Algeria, Chechnya and elsewhere where Islam encounters the non-Muslim or even the 'wrong' type of Muslim c.f Ahmadi's in Pakistan. Often violently if not contemptfully, I might add.

What should be addressed is the source of problems which is Mohammed's violence through word, thought, and deed. It's the 800 lb. gorilla in the room which no one wants to reconcile.

How does Islam hope to remain a moral and ethical code when its core has gone around killing, enslaving, and doing all sorts of nasty things. How does one reconcile Mohammed's execution of the adulterous woman(Saheh Muslim 4206) with Jesus's mercy and forgiveness of the adulterous woman(John 8:3-11)? I don't believe one can compare and expect to have a relevant moral and ethical code remain intact in the end.

As for the Israeli's treatment of the Palestians, frankly, I'm constantly amazed at their restraint. If it had been the Romans, Russians, or Chinese there probably wouldn't be any Palestinians left for us to argue about in the first place.

BTW, I've read that erstwhile US lefty terrorists and Obama supporters Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, and Code Pink moonbat Jodi Evans were participating in the flotilla. Any confirmation of this?

1 June 2010 at 10:54  
Anonymous photo ex machina said...

Cranmer you're talking complete bollocks. Really

1 June 2010 at 10:56  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Superb piece Your Grace.

No doubt Mr Thagor would claim that the pilots of the 9/11 aircraft were simply peaceful humanitarians trying to drop food parcels on the inhabitants of New York.

The video footage aired on al-Jazeera of these 'humanitarians' making anti-Semitic chants and offering themselves for martyrdom before departing with their cargo of 'aid' should give away their true intentions.

What a shame no North Korean subs were in the vicinity.

1 June 2010 at 11:01  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

YG, A good posting and I am in full agreement with you.

1 June 2010 at 11:03  
Blogger Henry Wood said...

English Viking wrote: " ... yet the muslims have erected a monstrosity on Temple Mount in Jerusalem and insist the Jewish capital is theirs."

And East Jerusalem would still be under Arab control but for one thing: Jordan attacked West Jerusalem at the start of the 6 Day War thinking they were backing a winner. They lost.

However, as a result of them losing, ALL of Jerusalem is now open to anyone of any creed or religion. This was not the case when it was under Jordan's control. The deliberate destruction of anything non-Muslim by the Jordanian authorities and their citizens ended when they lost that war.

And now, the "peacemakers" want to hand it back to the "Palestinians". (Does anoyne recall the part "Palestine" played in the 6 Day War? Neither do I, for there was no Palestine then. They were Jordanians.)

1 June 2010 at 11:04  
Blogger Philip said...

Scrigg, it's not that they are a victim, it's that the "peace activists" were anything but!

True peace activists would have nothing to hide and let Israel forces board and record all that goes on, not try to bash the paint gun-toting soldiers with iron bars and try to stab them with knives.

It is really sad that even in areas like phone-ins, where people can express a view, the BBC seem to be trying to make those that phone in with pro-Israel opinions look like a minority and allow other contributors attempt to verbally batter them into the ground.

1 June 2010 at 11:05  
Blogger James Higham said...

The sea blockade along the Gaza strip is therefore considered necessary for the peace and security of the region.

Precisely. Sovereign nation under daily rocket barrage, securing borders.

Interesting that the most vehement are also those pushing for the right of self-determination, enforced equality, etc. etc.

1 June 2010 at 11:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This was a 'human shield' stunt and any 'activist' volunteering to go into a declared blockade situation would have been fully aware that they were entering into a 'war zone' on the side of one of the beligerants - what the fuck did they expect.

1 June 2010 at 11:11  
Blogger Philip said...

I wonder why no one raised complaints when the UK dealt with the troubles in Northern Ireland by stopping weapons coming in by checking incoming vehicles and yet when Israel want to stop similar (and, indeed, far worse) things getting in to Palestine (admittedly not a place they control, but the point still stands) for a similar use a whole load of people claim it's terrorism and piracy!

1 June 2010 at 11:14  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

English Viking said...

yet the muslims have erected a monstrosity on Temple Mount in Jerusalem and insist the Jewish capital is theirs

You make my point for me

James d’Troy said...

How does Islam hope to remain a moral and ethical code

It doesn’t but then nor does Christianity or Judaism and please don’t quote from your holy books, they are all full of the most disgusting and depraved texts and if you want some biblical ones I will happily provide them.

Also it is unlikely that there would have been a global resurgence of Islam without the constant bleeding sore of Palestine.

1 June 2010 at 11:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just before everyone gets very excited about the IDF raid on the Gaza Aid convoy both sides could take a look at this article......

After WW2 the Royal Navy was in charge of what are now Israel and Gaza's shores. The UK governed Palestine under a Protectorate and was the responsible power under International law.

The Royal Navy had the unenviable task of deciding whether or not to stop boatloads of holocaust survivors, Jewish refugee's trying to flee to what would become Israel.

To the Jew's the Royal Navy and the British Army soldiers enforcing the blocade where as bad as Nazi's.....they used ' excessive violence' against 'unarmed' jews.

British soldiers, ordered to storm the transport vessels to which the Jewish immigrants on board Exodus had been transferred, were accused of behaving like "Hitler Commandos", "gentleman fascists" and sadists.

To the British they were in a position where they had to enforce international law and not allow the defacto creation of a Jewish state...

At the end of the war, it was left to the British to try to stem the flow of illegal immigration to Palestine, where the British government, conscious of Arab sensitivities in the region, decided to maintain strict quotas upon Jewish entry. So it was that, in July 1947, the Exodus, under the close scrutiny of the Royal Navy, docked in Marseille and picked up 4,553 Jewish refugees, each determined to defy the British blockade of Palestine.

On its voyage, later made into a Hollywood film starring Paul Newman, the Exodus was escorted by the British cruiser Ajax and a convoy of destroyers. The ship's captain, Yossi Harel, who died at the age of 90 last month, had planned to slip away from the escorts as he neared the coast of Palestine but, in the end, he decided to ignore the British warnings to stop, and made a run for the port.

The British response to that was to fire a warning shot into the Exodus's bow, immediately followed by the dispatch of a boarding party.

The passengers and crew resisted, and fierce fighting broke out on the Exodus. Three passengers and a soldier died, and many were wounded.


The British Soliders and Sailors were obeying orders and did a rather better less violent job than the IDF did a few days ago....but in 1947 the British were faced with extreme armed Jews, who tried to kill British soldiers marines and sailors who were doing their duty.

Many of the Jews who did get to Israel joined the Irgun and kidnapped, tortured, bombed and killed British citizens, all in the cause of winning the State of Israel.

My observation in this is that Israel needs to be very careful it does not look extremely hypocritical.

1 June 2010 at 11:43  
Anonymous John Hayward, Jubilee Centre said...

You might be interested in some photos that I took at yesterday's protests in London against the Gaza flotilla Israeli raid

1 June 2010 at 11:53  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Cranmer said...

Cranmer has already offered a mediated solution.

With all due respect you are barking mad! Put the Pope in charge of Jerusalem?

Religion is the problem not the solution. You are all like spoilt children pulling at a toy until it falls apart. Although it will not happen the only solution is for Jerusalem to be managed as a UN protectorate with free access to all religious groups but with an entirely secular and disinterested administration.

Anonymous 1 June 2010 11:43

Your history lesson is very informative and your point well made, “those to whom evil is done do evil in return”.

1 June 2010 at 12:15  
Anonymous martin sewell said...

Golda Meir put her finger on it when she said that the "Palestinians" hate the Jews more than they love their own children.

Grievance is at the heart of their self-identity and they have never been able to let that go, even when offered a compromise many years ago that could have brought a negotiated peace and 90% of what they wanted in terms of land return.

1 June 2010 at 12:19  
Anonymous Truthseeker said...

What is needed here is the truth. Before anyone makess a judgement on these events, they should first look at all the information available. I am glad His Grace has posted this, because it highlights a lot that people are ignoring. People are viewing this situation with thier prejudges and not viewing it objectivly which causes so much conflict.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Einstein

1 June 2010 at 12:20  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Truthseeker said...

What is needed here is the truth. Before anyone makes a judgement on these events, they should first look at all the information available. I am glad His Grace has posted this, because it highlights a lot that people are ignoring. People are viewing this situation with their prejudges and not viewing it objectively which causes so much conflict.,

You are right; we don’t know the facts of this particular confrontation. What we do know is that Israel laid waste to Gaza killing countless civilians and that they have maintained a devastating blockade that has even made humanitarian aid impossible to deliver. Treating a civilian population this way is a crime against humanity.

I loath Hamas as much as I loath Israel but the latter expects to be treated like a civilised nation and claims to operate under the rule of law. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and is generally treated as such. Israel should be treated exactly the same as Hamas by those who respect international law.

Apart from this conflict it continues to flout UN resolutions and builds yet more settlements on occupied land.

1 June 2010 at 12:41  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Graham Davis ... has anyone ever told you how very tiresome you are?

As you rightly ascertained earlier, this conflict is at root a religious conflict. It has very little to do with recent (relatively speaking) geo-political issues. It has it's origins in conflicts & ideologies stretching back millennia not merely decades.

If you really believe this most recent debacle is something to do with aid or international treaties or blockades, you really are more deluded than I thought you were.

Islam has a pathological hatred of Jews. This is because disagreements about the birth of 2 children to the same father but different mothers about 6,000 years ago. You can laugh at that, criticise that, ignore that, but you will never comprehend the Middle East til you accept & acknowledge that. And that is why Atheists will never be able to contribute anything meaningful towards resolving things in the middle east - either short term or long term. It's a bit like asking a flat-earther to oversee a round the world boat race, or like trying to find a religious solution to a maths problem.

1 June 2010 at 13:03  
Blogger Philip said...

Graham Davis wrote...

"if you want some biblical ones I will happily provide them"

I would be happy to have you do so. In particular, as you seem to be well aware of the Christian theology, try to pick out only those that are in the New Testament, seeing as the true understanding of the Bible as a whole is that the Old Testament sets the standards and the New Testament says that only God can be judge of people's actions.

1 June 2010 at 13:19  
Blogger Shane said...

Wow! One of the more wingnutty pieces I have read, congratulations good sir. I love the part about international waters suddenly becoming a war zone and soldiers who are just doing their job. Almost got teary-eyed. Thanks.

1 June 2010 at 13:35  
Blogger English Viking said...

Graham Davis said:

'Treating a civilian population this way is a crime against humanity.'

Civilians don't have guns, or rocket launchers.

Please don't bother cribbing Biblical verses, totally out of context. The fact of the matter is that Christianity is responsible for the civilisation of the Western World, Islam is responsible for nothing but violence, disharmony and cultural and social retardation.

1 June 2010 at 13:42  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Rebel Saint said...

And that is why Atheists will never be able to contribute anything meaningful towards resolving things in the middle east - either short term or long term. It's a bit like asking a flat-earther to oversee a round the world boat race

On the contrary you and your fellow believers are the problem, in a world without your invisible friend (or is it friends), this problem would not have existed.


try to pick out only those that are in the New Testament

So you would prefer to forget the nasty Old Testament, no surprise there, although you are happy to quote from it when you think it helps your argument, amazing!

1 June 2010 at 13:42  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

‘In response to Mr X's final question, the answer is unequivocally ‘no’: Mohammed is the one who both used and condoned violence, death and destruction; Jesus refused to take up arms.’

It is true that Jesus refused to take up arms.

But would He condone violence from His servants in certain situations? Is maintaining a police service a good idea and by extension a military?

‘And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

‘And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?’

Joshua 5: 13-14

1 June 2010 at 14:20  
Blogger srizals said...

JamesD'Troy said...bla bla bla Muslims would always have problems with invading and occupaying forces that opress them since ages. And your point is?

Be a good slave and die at the will of your tormentors?

Rebel Saint said...
..Islam has a pathological hatred of Jews..

You sir, are a liar!

Based on what? The Holocaust? The pogroms? Dier Yassin or Sabra and Shatilla?

Or based on the Koran?
With your kind permission your grace,

Allah has made the Children of Israel take a pledge. We appointed twelve chiefs from among them. Allah said, “I am surely with you. If you establish Salāh, and pay Zakāh, and believe in My Messengers, and hold them in reverence, and advance to Allah a goodly loan, I shall certainly write off your evil deeds, and I shall certainly admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow. So, whoever from you disbelieves after that has lost the straight path.”
So, because they broke their pledge, We cursed them and made their hearts hardened. They change words from their places, and they have overlooked a good deal of the Advice they were given. Every now and then you come across a certain treachery from all of them, except a few. So, forgive them and forego. Indeed, Allah loves those who are good in deeds.

Rebel Saint,
Don't show just how ignorant you can be in here. You're a Saint, remember?
English Viking can be as a viking as he is. He's a viking! I won't expect any less.

1 June 2010 at 14:31  
Blogger srizals said...

Ops, my bad. Occupying, not occupaying. Who would pay for an occupation anyway? The friends of Israel?

1 June 2010 at 14:49  
Blogger English Viking said...


Don't forget the bit where your so-called 'holy men' explain how Jews are directly descended from pigs and dogs.

1 June 2010 at 15:03  
Blogger English Viking said...


My mistake, it is pigs and monkeys, not pigs and dogs.

How careless of me.

1 June 2010 at 15:06  
Blogger srizals said...

You have to provide them here, in case, it's just another baseless taqiyya you're babbling without any authentic references. Valid and is a major reference of the core foundations of the Muslims. Not from fragmented and outcast Muslims' point of view. But since you have brought it up, provide them here if you're true.

1 June 2010 at 15:11  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

I implore you, please don't respond to srizals people.

Like the "peace protesters" on the boat, he is merely here to provoke and goad.

1 June 2010 at 15:17  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

Is there something which is inherently violent within the so-called ‘religion of peace’.

Indeed, there is. It cannot be concealed, nor denied nor passed over. It infects the emotional, spiritual and intellectual world of its multitudes.

In the ‘first’ part of the Koran as Mohammed is beginning to spread his religion he preaches peace and enlightenment.

As he begins later on to experience robust opposition he preaches violence.

Now where there are conflicts between jurisprudential principles in the latter (later and violent) part of the Koran and the earlier (peaceful) part; the principles in the latter and violent part trump the principles in the earlier peaceful part.

That is their principle of jurisprudential interpretation: endless violence.

War without end.

1 June 2010 at 15:20  
Blogger srizals said...

Rebel Saint,

Cowardice is a virtue, for a liar like you!

1 June 2010 at 15:21  
Blogger srizals said...

Provoke and goad the highly trained and heavily armed with body armour commandos? Me with my knives? You gotta be kidding, Rebel liar.

1 June 2010 at 15:25  
Blogger srizals said...

Liar, liar, speaks like a liar. But at least you're not like a Bliar. His lies kill.

1 June 2010 at 15:35  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

The book A God Who Hates: The Courageous Woman Who Inflamed the Muslim World Speaks Out Against the Evils of Islam was written by Wafa Sultan, a Syrian-American ex-Muslim.

On the Islamic “culture of shouting and raiding,” she states on page 69: “My experience has been that two Muslims cannot talk together without their conversation turning into shouts within minutes, especially when they disagree with each other, and no good can come of that. When you talk to a Muslim, rationally, in a low calm voice, he has trouble understanding your point of view. He thinks you have lost the argument. A Muslim conversing with anyone else – Muslim or non-Muslim – cannot remember a single word the other person has said, any more than my mother could remember a single word of what the preacher in our local mosque said.”

Page 158: “When you speak calmly to a Muslim, he perceives you as being weak. The American saying ‘speak softly and carry a big stick,’ is, unfortunately, of no use when dealing with Muslims. It would be more appropriate to say (until we can change this way of thinking), ‘speak forcefully and carry a big stick’; otherwise you will be the weaker party and the loser. Democracy cannot spread in societies like these until the people who live in them have been reeducated, for they cannot function unless they are playing the role of the master or the slave.”

1 June 2010 at 15:42  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Well Said D.Singh. Islam is the problem. The IDF are the solution.

1 June 2010 at 15:45  
Blogger srizals said...

IDF is the solution, not ARE the solution. Wow, Wafa Sultan! Now I'm going to get debunked by quotations based arguments, again. What a bummer!

Catch you later viking boy. And I thought I would get a good exercise for my neurons tonight. Keep on swimming, keep on swimming..swim, swim. Bye Rebel Liar. Keep on rebelling against God, and do try to cut down of those lying, you're simply, terrible at it.

1 June 2010 at 16:00  
Blogger srizals said...

Am I shouting D. Singh? She's a loony. I knew her well enough from my buddies at loonwatch.com

I won't repeat her stories here. Try to find more reliable and canonic sources that would really scare the s... out of me. Good reading though, for a man that likes to live in a dream world.

1 June 2010 at 16:07  
Blogger English Viking said...


Sura 5, 60 of your fairytale book.





You really should know the contents of your favourite novel . You should be careful, else the Imam might thrash the demons out of you, or 'thigh' you.

1 June 2010 at 16:12  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Don't waste your breath Viking

1 June 2010 at 16:18  
Blogger Scrigg said...

Irish ship the MV Rachel Corrie is due to arrive tomorrow. See how this one get on with the murdering Zionists.

The MV Rachel Corrie

1 June 2010 at 16:44  
Blogger English Viking said...


With a bit of luck they'll sink it.

1 June 2010 at 16:46  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

The daily mash gets it just about right, though with the inclusion of a few expletives.

The Irish ship won't get in as it contains things explicitly considered contraband by Israel i.e. concrete. Admittedly it's "humanitarian" concrete so it wouldn't be used to reinforce arms smuggling tunnels or bunkers or anything like that, just kennels for abandoned kittens or orphanages for all the children left abandoned by their suicidal parents.

Hopefully they'll turn it round and send it right back marked, "Humanitarian Aid FAO The Real IRA".

1 June 2010 at 16:54  
Anonymous Truthseeker said...

Prehaps we were not being told the whole truth all along...


Then again is the BBC that reliable on this issue?

1 June 2010 at 17:13  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

For a Christian blog it amazes me the complete lack of humanity expressed here. You are happy to regard all Palestinians including their children as guilty of being Hamas killers despite the fact that only a slender majority of the population in the Gaza Strip voted for Hamas in the last parliamentary elections, the remainder voted for Fatah who are not bent on the destruction of Israel.

Many of you simply ignore Israel’s atrocities because of your religious kinship with the Jews. You seem to be able to justify any act, no matter how cruel and heartless so long as it fits with your religious obsessions. Where are those so called Christian values?

1 June 2010 at 17:19  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I hadnt realised your grace christ did refuse to take up arms , thnakyou for that thought . i couldnt help but think of the moment in gethsemene when Peter tried to stop the arrest of jesus , grabbed a sword and cut a guards ear off .Jesus then rebuked Peter and healed the ear back on to the guard , even though they arrested him .

said a lot to me about stumbling blocks !

1 June 2010 at 17:28  
Blogger Philip said...

Graham Davis wrote:

"...So you would prefer to forget the nasty Old Testament, no surprise there, although you are happy to quote from it when you think it helps your argument, amazing!"

Philip wrote:

"I would be happy to have you do so. In particular, as you seem to be well aware of the Christian theology, try to pick out only those that are in the New Testament, seeing as the true understanding of the Bible as a whole is that the Old Testament sets the standards and the New Testament says that only God can be judge of people's actions."

Now, if you notice (being the widely read scholar of Christian theology that you have professed to be) I said that the New Testament explains that all the stuff you call "disgusting and depraved" (I assume you mean stuff like stoning those that break the law) is to not to be judged by humans but left to God. Indeed, it is reminding them of what it says in Leviticus (18:29-30) where it tells the Israelites that God is to judge, so just leave them to their judgement.

So, whilst the description of how to live is still relevant, the punishment for not living like that is in the hands of God alone. Thus it is not ignoring the Old Testament, it is putting the whole thing in context.

1 June 2010 at 17:47  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

The only good bit in the whole sordid episode was seeing the IOF goon getting tossed overboard,


1 June 2010 at 19:02  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

ps Graham Davies says...

'Many of you simply ignore Israel’s atrocities because of your religious kinship with the Jews. You seem to be able to justify any act, no matter how cruel and heartless so long as it fits with your religious obsessions. Where are those so called Christian values?'

Unlike him I'm not an atheist, I'm a Christian but this comment is absolutely spot on. You misuse your Christianity as a distorting mirror.

1 June 2010 at 19:05  
Anonymous len said...

The flotilla claimed to be filled with peaceful pro-Palestinian activists whose aim was to bring aid to Gaza. Israel intercepted the ships to make sure the “activists” weren’t delivering weapons to Gaza. Remember, Gaza is ruled by Hamas, a.k.a the Islamic Resistance Movement, dedicated to Israel’s destruction.

Since Israel withdrew from Gaza a few years ago, Hamas has rained thousands of rockets on Israeli towns. Hamas is obtaining those weapons from somewhere. This week’s flotilla originated in Turkey, a country whose government has been increasingly aligning itself with radical Islamist elements. Israel quite rightly can’t allow ships that have originated in Turkey, Iran or who knows where else to deliver cargo to Hamas fighters waiting on the docks of Gaza to receive it.
Whatever Israel does to protect itself and its citizens will be turned into anti-Israel propaganda.

1 June 2010 at 19:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

D. Singh quotes: "When you talk to a Muslim, rationally, in a low calm voice, he has trouble understanding your point of view. He thinks you have lost the argument. A Muslim conversing with anyone else – Muslim or non-Muslim – cannot remember a single word the other person has said, any more than my mother could remember a single word of what the preacher in our local mosque said.”

I replaced 'Muslim' in this passage with 'G. Davis'. Result: Absolutely consistent- describes Dalek Davis, to a 'T'!

1 June 2010 at 19:58  
Anonymous Mark H said...

How refreshing to read a piece on this terrible event that does not take a full-blown anti-Israel stance.

Though I think that Israel has caused itself grave harm, the fact of the matter is that Gaza is not an occupied territory, but a territory run by a terrorist organisation official and unrepentently bent on the total annihilation of Israel.

I have been following this story, and it is noticeable that the activists managed to sleep through "thundering tannoys", and not only sleep through it, but also (presumably in their sleep) phone relatives to say that Israeli forces were "threatening" them. (Read: warning not to approach Gaza.)

Yet, such an eye for detail is totally missed when one is steeped in an anti-semetic and pro-Palestinian mindset.

1 June 2010 at 20:02  
Anonymous Oswin said...

English Viking at 09.49 - you forgot the Serbs!

Oh, didn't we bomb the hell out of the them; I wonder why we did that?

Perhaps the West hadn't yet woken-up to what was going on?

Seemingly the West is STILL asleep!

James D'Troy - another excellent post too. Ditto Rebel Saint, English Pensioner, Len and Dreadnaught.

1 June 2010 at 20:18  
Blogger velvel in decatur said...

Thank you, Learned Sir.

The garbage has reached it own level...and by that I mean the Turks, the EU, the Vatican, and the rest of those who were convinced by Toynbee that Jews and the religion are merely a fossil...and I say, when the Messiah comes they best have their asbestos nappies ready to wear.

"...yet the muslims have erected a monstrosity on Temple Mount in Jerusalem and insist the Jewish capital is theirs..."

They have made up their history and have repeated it often enough that the BBC, Reuters, Code Pink, and the Clown Nation all believe it. But that is because they believe all history needs to be redacted, rewritten, and respun.

1 June 2010 at 20:22  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Mr. Singh - as erudite and accurate as usual...welcome back Sir!

1 June 2010 at 20:24  
Blogger English Viking said...


How could I forget such a wicked betrayal?

Bosnia IS Serbia!

1 June 2010 at 22:40  
Anonymous Fran said...

A splendid post Your Grace.

May I recommend this video to those fair minded of your communicants:


The best thing that Gazans could do to improve their lot is to throw off the baleful yoke of Hamas

2 June 2010 at 09:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I repost something I submitted locally:

Dealing with jihadis and Arabs is like playing cards with girls. They gloat when they win and cry when they lose.
A boarding party armed with paint guns [what the-???]gets smacked up with stanchions, [and in one case--deep sixed], fired at with catapults, and they then respond with lethal side arms. This has all the qualities required of the lable 'FU' [fiasco unparalleled]
Several things are now inevitable--screeching, wailing, ullulating Arabs filling streets and burning stuff world wide, folks like Phil Goff and Keith Locke being outraged, and an Israeli mission planner getting his arse kicked.

A tip here for all would-be international protestors.
In NZ, if the Armed Offenders Squad ninjas tell you to freeze and lie down, comply immediately. Do not debate the matter, attempt to engage the goon in combat or reach for a weapon. They will blow you to chops. They're like that.

Now, if thats what it's like here, what do you think an IDF Marine is like? His whole paradigm is a life surrounded by hair-trigger peoples who are batshit-crazy. You will become a casualty before he will-- Even if you are on a big boat and you can depend on 'World Fury' supporting your cause later.


2 June 2010 at 12:21  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

I am sure that the anti-Israeli and racist posters here would applaud the IRA mob who murdered corporals Derek Wood and David Howes in March 1988.

Corporals Derek Wood and David Howes were dragged from their unmarked car by a mob and shot after blundering into the funeral cortege of an IRA man.

Both corporals were armed but they elected not to shoot their attackers.

It is clear that as IDF marines were being beaten – they too would have been murdered had they not fired at their assailants.

2 June 2010 at 14:10  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

It is fascinating how the left-liberal mind supports the flotilla that attempted to break the (under international law) legitimate blockade by Israel.

Israel did offer to fly the supplies carried by the flotilla.

That offer was rejected by the nations involved in sponsoring the convoy.

Of course, once the blockade had collapsed it would have meant unrestricted supplies of ordnance and trained men to the Strip.

2 June 2010 at 15:42  
Anonymous Mark H said...

I would like to add concerning a report in the Guardian, and I paraphrase as I can't access the actual articles right now:

"Most goods are smuggled into Gaza through underground tunnels. These are taxed by Hamas and are unaffordable to most Gazans."

The Guardian, as like many others, forgets that Gaza is ruled by a terrorist organisation whose primary purpose is to annihilate Israel, yet even the Guardian makes note that Hamas causes basic goods that are imported to be "unaffordable to most Gazans."

2 June 2010 at 19:00  
Blogger Adrian said...


4 June 2010 at 11:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is anyone debating an issue that does not exist and that is a race of people called the Palestinians. There never has been. read: The Truth About Palestine from a historical perspective. http://www.wilderness-cry.net/tcn/palestinians/truth.html

8 June 2010 at 05:30  
Blogger Richard.K.Halliday said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8 June 2010 at 10:11  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older