Why Margaret Thatcher will not ‘Burn in Hell’

His Grace thought it might be useful to have a visual depiction of what a Labour councillor has wished upon Margaret Thatcher.
Shocking, isn’t it.
It is quite easy to say that you hope someone might ‘Burn in Hell’ as a hyperbolic corollary of the intense loathing or hatred you might feel for that person.
The picture speaks those words far more powerfully and eloquently than perhaps they could ever communicate by themselves.
Hell is a frightful place of eternal torment and unending suffering, where the flame consumes, thirst is forever unquenched and the teeth gnash and gnaw as the soul writhes in agony.
It is not the language but the image of that horror which haunts the mind.
As Baroness Thatcher lay ill in hospital with a serious bout of flu, Labour’s Cllr Florence Anderson, deputy leader of Sunderland City Council, said on her Facebook page: “Haha, I hope she BURNS IN HELL."
The thread has since been removed from public view.
Though it is reported that she also added: “I’ll dance on Thatcher’s grave, even if she is buried at sea.”
She counts Labour MPs Peter Hain, Jim Knight and Bridget Phillipson amongst her online friends.
They might like to re-consider their association will Cllr Anderson.
While Baroness Thatcher is not likely to lose much sleep over Cllr Anderson’s rant, His Grace thought it might be worthwhile to consider why Margaret Thatcher will not burn in Hell.
She is, and has been since her childhood, a committed Christian.
Her Christianity was grounded in the Protestant Nonconformity of devout and evangelical Methodism: her conservatism was Tory in its Burkean deference to the great institutions of state but thoroughly Whiggish and libertarian after Mill in its iconoclastic challenge to the big agencies of state; in her emphasis on the ‘work ethic’ kind of Protestantism, and her patriotic belief in the national British Christian spirit and her notion of morality as the opportunity for free choice. She had what some identified as a ‘puritan streak’, espousing the values of the English suburban and provincial middle-class and aspiring skilled working-class. These contrasted with the values of the establishment élite of the Church of England, landowners, university academics, the Foreign Office and the professions.
Her writings and speeches are unequivocal in the provenance of her theo-political worldview. In Statecraft, she wrote: ‘I believe in what are often referred to as “Judaeo-Christian” values: indeed my whole political philosophy is based on them’. In the second volume The Path to Power she went further: ‘Although I have always resisted the argument that a Christian has to be a Conservative, I have never lost my conviction that there is a deep and providential harmony between the kind of political economy I favour and the insights of Christianity’.
But a speech she made at the zenith of her power is perhaps the most illuminating of all her statements with regard to her theology, and it is worth looking at it in some detail because she began it by saying that she spoke 'personally as a Christian, as well as a politician’.
In a speech to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in 1988, Margaret Thatcher outlined what she identified as the ‘distinctive marks of Christianity’ which ‘stem not from the social but from the spiritual side of our lives’. And perhaps in a swipe at those ‘meddlesome priests’ who were critical of some of her policies throughout the 1980s, she declared that ‘we must not profess the Christian faith and go to Church simply because we want social reforms and benefits or a better standard of behaviour; but because we accept the sanctity of life, the responsibility that comes with freedom and the supreme sacrifice of Christ’.
In this speech, Margaret Thatcher was unwavering in her interpretation of Scripture which gives ‘a view of the universe, a proper attitude to work, and principles to shape economic and social life’: of how the theological ‘is’ translates into the political ‘ought’; how Christianity remains relevant to public policy. And so she emphasises the traditional conservative view of the family which is ‘at the heart of our society and the very nursery of civic virtue. And it is on the family that we in government build our own policies for welfare, education and care’. And with an appeal to the Apostle Paul, she reminded her audience that ‘anyone who neglects to provide for his own house (family) has disowned the faith and is "worse than an infidel".’ Yet she was not deluded by the biblical ideal, recognising that ‘modern society is infinitely more complex’ and that ‘new occasions teach new duties’. But some things are sacrosanct:
I believe strongly that politicians must see that religious education has a proper place in the school curriculum. In Scotland, as in England, there is an historic connection expressed in our laws between Church and State. The two connections are of a somewhat different kind, but the arrangements in both countries are designed to give symbolic expression to the same crucial truth: that the Christian religion – which, of course, embodies many of the great spiritual and moral truths of Judaism – is a fundamental part of our national heritage. And I believe it is the wish of the overwhelming majority of people that this heritage should be preserved and fostered. For centuries it has been our very life blood. And indeed we are a nation whose ideals are founded on the Bible.To dispel any notion that Margaret Thatcher was simply exploiting Christianity for electoral purposes, it is possible to trace this golden thread of Christianity in speeches she made prior even to becoming Leader of the Opposition: there is a distinct and consistent Nonconformist leitmotif running through all of her political writings. Her government essentially constituted an applied theology; it was, she said, ‘engaged in the massive task of restoring confidence and stability to our people’ because ‘unless the spirit of the nation which has hitherto sustained us is renewed, our national life will perish’. She reintroduced into British politics a missionary mood that reflected her provincial and Methodist origins. And the ‘spirit’ of which she spoke was unequivocally and uncompromisingly Christian. She said: ‘I find it difficult to imagine that anything other than Christianity is likely to resupply most people in the West with the virtues necessary to remoralize society in the very practical ways which the solution of many present problems require’. Of which it was observed:
Thatcher comes as close as she can to identifying Christianity and Conservatism. One can speculate that for Thatcher any distinction between Christianity and Conservatism is a technical theological distinction, and that the values and principles associated with the two sets of beliefs were normally, temporally, indistinguishable. She comes very close to this position in her volume Statecraft when she argues that certain cultures are "more conducive to free-enterprise capitalism and thus to economic progress than others". She had in mind the "Judaeo-Christian tradition" as opposed to what she calls the "great Asian religious traditions" and the "religious traditions of Africa". It is not necessary to agree with this analysis – and there are many problems with it – to recognize that for Thatcher a spiritual renewal meant essentially a Christian cultural renewal, not to fill the churches, but to ensure economic growth and prosperity.Perhaps no prime minister since Gladstone could have risked telling a journalist that (s)he was ‘in politics because of the conflict between good and evil’, with the conviction ‘that in the end good will triumph’.
But it is not her policies which will save her from Hell. It is not her programme of government, her achievements or her world renown.
Margaret Thatcher is saved from Hell because Jesus Christ is her Lord and Saviour: He paid the price: she is forgiven.
Perhaps Florence Anderson might like to consider that, in a few years time, when the Lord calls Margaret Thatcher to Himself, the angels will not only rejoice in Heaven but the name of the Great Lady will endure throughout human history.
And Florence Anderson will be nothing but a speck of dust.
Criticise Margaret Thatcher’s policies, if you wish, and lament what she did to the country. Pity or dislike her, by all means: hate her, even, although it harms the soul of no-one but the hater.
But do not wish the horrors of Hell upon anyone.
By the looks of it, Cllr Anderson is not far from shuffling off her own mortal coil. And as she approaches the Gates of Heaven and the Lamb's Book of Life is opened, the Lord might just say to her what the population of the country is now saying:
“Florence who?”
Those who wish others would burn in Hell are much more in danger of going there themselves.
Retract, apologise and repent, Ms Anderson.
Before it is too late.

31 Comments:
I am not a political person. Nor am I tied to any particular religious persuasion. I was brought up a catholic and married a protestant. Neither of us go to church any more but we still consider ourselves as Christians. One of our children married a catholic and has remained one. One a protestant. One an agnostic. All live good lives. All vote differently.
Each to their own is what our family believes in, and living a good life well.
Of all the politicians in my lifetime I think Mrs Thatcher was always true to her word, unlike much of the spin since. I always trusted and respected her even if I didn't agree with things she had to do. I am just hoping the current government being a coalition will bring some faith back to this country.
As for people who publicly say things like 'burn in hell' I would just say 'cast the beam out of thine own eye'
and you are right, when I was reading your post I said 'Florence who?"
LOL.
chris
I suppose it would be unchristian to offer to help her to "Dance on her grave even if she is buried at sea" when the event sadly happens. About 100 miles out with no pick up afterwards.
Hell is a frightful place of eternal torment and unending suffering, where the flame consumes, thirst is forever unquenched and the teeth gnash and gnaw as the soul writhes in agony.
It is not the language but the image of that horror which haunts the mind
Exactly - 'It's ALL in the mind'
Your Grace, as ever, amuses, provokes and animates the grey matter; but sir, to speak of the sainted Margaret in the past tense is most premature.
“Florence who?” Indeed. But infamy is no great thing Your Grace. A lot of people have the feeling that she drastically failed them, while at the same time there are others who sing her praises. For me, well, I was rather young during her reign, and I was a serviceman at the time enjoying the security and easy lifestyle afforded by service life; I didn't really feel any kind of political involvement because I was too engrossed in my limited surroundings.
It's only afterwords that when I reflect back and read some of the horror stories that I can appreciate how there would be many bitter hearts from the people who she drastically failed.
"for Thatcher a spiritual renewal meant essentially a Christian cultural renewal, not to fill the churches, but to ensure economic growth and prosperity."
Hmmm.
None the less, I agree with what you say about haters, but we all know the old adage about throwing stones in glass houses. My own feelings come very short of hatred for the old handbag. I personally believe that she meant what she said, and that she really does believe that she was doing what was best in the end - none of us can profess to be perfect at the end of the day though.
Should she rot in hell? No, I don't think so. But a great graphic depiction to fantasise about, just for a while and then repent quickly.
If anyone should burn in Hell it is Blair and Brown, along with their minions.
"Those who wish others would burn in Hell are much more in danger of going there themselves." How true!
There is a spiritual Law of reaping and sowing,or as the'World' puts it, 'what goes around comes around'.
Genuine repentance is the only way of negating this Law.
I've long since thought that Labour harbours a load of self-righteoes shysters. This is just a taste of the evil thoughts they can have.
For a movement that was partly formed out of non-conformist evangelism they have moved on to become a rather shrill lot. They are very keen to denounce others, such as Catholics, for not genuflecting at their semi-secular altar of politico-religious correctness.
Florence Thingamebob is either a self-satisfied humanist or a rather pettyfogging socialist. If she were a Christian she would know that this sort of judgement is nothing to do with us. "Judge not, lest ye be judged". She will be required to explain such thoughts and I would expect she will have none, being in front of the "whole company of Heaven"!
Come now, Your Grace, I suspect the lovely Florence just used that phrase because she isn't very good with words. Does she even believe hell exists? Lefty atheists tend not to...
Snuffy x
I do not think Margret Thatcher is going to hell, but your grace raises and interesting question of where do the people of good works in politics of dark times go to ?, or perhaps more precisely how will unsaint like acts be interpreted if they held up the heavens ?
That post you did on the 1988 speech was a wonderful snapshot of her abilities before her time in office began to become charctured , even now a remarkable and enlightening speech.
I have never quite understood why athiests use the word hell , perhaps its is means to ends or votes ! Theology is perhaps a little too crude for them , its praise , its parables , praying to thin air and imaginary friends .
There are many theological questions that still remain incomplete , suffering being the most perplexing and yet it has often been the case that the most powerfull athiests have caused the most suffering in there attempts to reinvent the eternal unto there own audience (whether dictatorship or democracy). It is worth remebering that we can be saved from hell , by not accepting its invitation , trying to get out of hell requires god and jesus to find our way back , quite wether we ourselves have to be the carrier of prinicpals or our politics/law administer them for us, is somthing I have been trying to discerne for some considerable time alas it would seem so have the socialists/communists .
Flo' from Sunderland....says it all really; but it is perhaps a smidgin unfair to many Sunderland folk (?) who must now be lamenting the demise of 'Andy Capp' (ok, that's Hartlepool, but never mind, it's close enough!)and his restraining influence!
This woman is a damned disgrace and ought not to hold any public office.
We all deserve the hell of fire where the worm does not die. But those whose names are in the book of life are saved by grace through the blood of Jesus and receive forgiveness by faith. Happy Reformation Day!
Perhaps Florence has contacts down there - as you'd envisage from her make up.
I disagree with Oswin - she is fit only to hold minor public office and be a housewife, as it seems that she might lack some of the tenacity, intellect and nous to achieve anything in the private sphere, where people are more discriminating.
It keeps her away from the grown ups and she can frolic on her beloved slag heaps all day long.
Annonymous @ 17.54 .... I concede to your point.
That's one 'n' too many!
A Labour politician who believes in Hell as AfterLIfe rather than one they create here on Earth !!!!
I thought Socialism was the embodiment of Hell on Earth
YG, entertaining, if a little shrill!
Lady Thatcher is a great woman, of firm moral conviction, but she is no more predestined to salvation than anyone else. She will be judged by her Maker, and not by her confreres here below.
It is impossible to know what God thinks of Councillor Mrs Anderson and just as impossible to know what Mrs Anderson thinks of God. But her silly intemperate outburst would incline one to the view she might not possess the subtlest intellect in modern Britain, or the deepest understanding of the complexities of statesmanship. And therefore, Mrs Anderson's outburst ought to be seen in the light of her obvious disabilities and taken as one would the tantrum of a child. She deserves correction and compassion, but not Your Grace's judgment, which, as you know is reserved to Our Lord alone.
Your Grace
I am reminded of the story of the tax collector in Luke. We read that Jesus was traveling through Jericho one day when he saw a tax collector up a tree - He was so taken aback with the sight that He said He 'MUST' stay at his house that day. The man was completely transformed through the experience and although he seemed unrepentant about collecting tax, he did declare that he would give half of his wealth to the poor.
I don't think we are likely to see lady T climbing any trees, but who knows?
One is cognizant that Your Grace's previous experience has rendered him neither pyrophobic nor pyrophiliac.
Other reading has inclined me to respect ancient variations on the theme of Hell. Whatever the language, Indo-European cultures seem mostly to have shared visions of an afterlife that extends below the grave.
It is possible, we know, that any afterlife merely renders the grave, or death, eternal. Indeed, when I was young (but had already grown up), I met several people who believed this world to be Hell. Having grown up still further, I can only concur; and I note also, with Voyager, that the commies sure don't improve the situation.
The Judaeo-Christian concept of Death explains why we have to be in this Hell in the first place; and Christianity, through Christ's Resurrection from the grave, illustrates our only hope of Redemption. Furthermore, Your Grace has usually excelled in urging us to a via media, whereon we do not presume to Judge who deserves that fate.
I agree with Mr. Walling. May the Lord have mercy on us all, including the two females under discussion here.
her conservatism was Tory in its Burkean deference to the great institutions of state but thoroughly Whiggish and libertarian after Mill in its iconoclastic challenge to the big agencies of state
Conservatism is, obviously, incompatible with Whiggism and libertarianism - to say nothing of Liberalism.
Thatcher would have had no time for Mill. She supported the big agencies of the apartheid state in South Africa. She supported the big agencies of the Fascist state in Chile. And she pushed as hard as she could for the introduction of a Fascist state in the UK. She tested what passes for a constitution in the UK to its limits in her attempt to introduce Fascism. Fortunately, the constitution won (just) and she lost.
By the way, this doesn't make me a socialist. Thatcher and Scargill deserved each other. Unfortunately for everyone else, they got each other.
The socialist mind is a strange one. While generally rejecting the teachings of our Lord Jesus they have no compunction in using the barbaric non-biblical dogma of an etenally burning Hell to hurl at their enemies. The cruelty of the left is for all time; Intolerant, inflexible and inventive. Surely the lessons of history should warn all to shun such as espouse their doctrines. Perhaps we as Christians should get our act together. We have the Bible whose truths are manifest. Why are we still embracing such errors as Original Sin, Eternal Hellfire, Infant Baptism, Immaculate Conception and other such horrors? These false doctrines give the world a weapon to club us with. The Reformation must be completed.
Florence Anderson: dedicated to crating hell on earth and poverty to all men.
Anderson is an embittered old woman. She is blaming Thatcher for the demise of her neighbourhood during the last miners strike. Being a lefty Anderson conveniently ignores that it was Arthur "I'm bringing down this Tory government because I'm a Marxist scumbag and I say it has to go" Scargill who kicked off the hostilities.
But then, Maxist scumbags need to stick together, don't they. One can only hope there is a special type of hell reserved for such as they...
"Margaret Thatcher is saved from Hell because Jesus Christ is her Lord and Saviour: He paid the price: she is forgiven."
Precisely, your Grace!
Your Grace.
There is not much I can add to this debate, save only to say
that the person who would probably know more about what Hell is like (judging by the photo) is not
Mrs A, but the unfortunate husband of same lady, who has likely made the poor man's life if not a living Hell, then at least as close to the Catholic idea of Purgatory as one is ever likely to get.
When Margaret Thatcher spoke of the Good Samaritan she revealed her true faith-a belief in MONEY!
She can cal herself christian and preach a so called gospel but unless she is born agains he will not see the kingdom of God. John 3v3. I remember this blog defending jade goodys salvation purely on the basis she read the bible and was babtised, I hope and PRAY, yes actually pray not just express it verbally that Thatcher does come to a saving faith but one is not saved for being methodist, anglican, good or bad, religious or non religious or using religious comments in one speech, one is saved by accepting they are a sinner before a holy God, renouncing that sin and yielding their lives to God through Jesus, they then proclaim that gospel to others and their lifstyles proclaim them to belong to Jesus. Thatcher has never done that. stop being religious, according to the c/e at every funeral everyone whom is being buried 'lived a good life' and is going to heaven, stop telling lies and challenge the people with the truth, unless you are born again you will die in your sins..
Quote
'She comes very close to this position in her volume Statecraft when she argues that certain cultures are "more conducive to free-enterprise capitalism and thus to economic progress than others". She had in mind the "Judaeo-Christian tradition" as opposed to what she calls the "great Asian religious traditions" and the "religious traditions of Africa". It is not necessary to agree with this analysis – and there are many problems with it – to recognize that for Thatcher a spiritual renewal meant essentially a Christian cultural renewal, not to fill the churches, but to ensure economic growth and prosperity'
Comment
I note the author’s non-sequitur but this seems somewhat inaccurate when many Eastern nations have adopted capitalism and are succeeding in terms of material growth and prosperity. Many in those countries however argue that this is frequently at the expense of people’s spiritual well-being.
Africa has struggled and has its own problems but we should accept both the good done and the terrible and clearly un-Christian acts perpetrated against its peoples by 'Christian' countries in the past. I think we can safely call the slave trade un-Christian and I do accept that it existed in Africa before and after the intervention of European powers. As true as it is to cite Christian charity aimed at helping people in Africa it is equally accurate to state that some economic activity with Africa is not aimed at the peoples' well-being at all but at maximising profits for western, Christian countries and neither is it aimed at helping our own people at home but once again at maximising profits, often at the expense of jobs and wage rates for people in Britain as in other European countries.
To focus too much on material well-being with scant regard for the spiritual life - I would argue this is rife in Britain as in many countries, as I suspect would many within the clergy - then in our ignorance we are the poorer for it. We become enamoured with the material world and rather precious. To do the same in reverse and ignore the material side of life, living in luxury yet dwelling only in prayer whilst people struggle to live in reasonable comfort also misses the point.
I sometimes regard myself as left-leaning, principally because without wishing to expand on the traits of socialism and its many deficiencies, which are legion, there does seem to me something inherently Christian in endevouring to lift people out of material poverty and in not simply relying on them getting by from the crumbs that drop from the banqueting table of rich people. Trickle-down economics does work and can galvanise economic activity but I would resist the temptation to call it real giving which must come personally from the heart.
Most of all what I believe is required is for those that have so much to see their wealth as a means to help the less fortunate. Crucially I think, whereas one can amass £ millions and do good, if one could only embrace Christ's teaching, his life, more wholly one would surely not feel the need or desire to constantly maximise profits by paying virtually poverty wages to millions, amassing ever more personal wealth in the process, and instead see the benefit to oneself and others of paying better wage rates and pensions to working people even at the expense of one's ability to amass such great wealth. That is real charity, not taking it all and then throwing a bit back to help others you have left in poverty.
Sadly most people of great wealth in modern Britain - and there are of course many honourable exceptions - seem uninterested in investing in the inter-connected material and spiritual life of the population in this way and we see many not seeking to build things but only to amass more wealth on the financial markets by making their money make more money. In our socio-economic model this is eminently possible, but where is the good in it, where is the personal sacrifice? The story of the camel and the eye of the needle spring to mind.
I like your whole posting up until the, er, fifth-from-last paragraph. I don't think there are any superstars in heaven, or if they are, they will generally not be the people we know well. I can think of a few (I'm sure you can too) people who clearly walk very closely with God and really "live the life" in the most inspiring way, but are only known to people who – well – know them, personally. I think a lot of these people will be, in a sense, the superstars of heaven, having "fame with God". That is not very well expressed but hopefully you know what I mean.
And I guess, from the way you say "might" in that paragraph, that you know this anyway, but it's rather an unfortunate ending, I think, to a good article.
Good blog though!!
You're quite right, she won't burn in hell, because it doesn't exist. we ought to build it just for her though.
Margaret Thatcher was a monster, whose cruelty and callousness harmed the lives of thousands of ordinary, decent people.
For shame! That you would call yourself a Christian and yet rush to the defence of someone who cared so little for her fellow man! Do you really want to be the sort of Christian whose compassion for the conservative and the powerful is limitless - and whose compassion for the poor and needy is frail and seldom exercised?
What happens to Margaret Thatcher after death is up to God - but unless the Christian religion has mislead us, it will probably go hard for her.
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