Sunday, December 05, 2010

Geert Wilders' speech in Tel Aviv, Israel

There are few politicians in the West who realise that the 'Jihad' against Israel is a war against all of us: our lives, our liberties and our pursuit of happiness. And if they do realise, they dare not say.

With blessings to Gates of Vienna, below is the text of Geert Wilders' speech in Tel Aviv. He begins by mourning the deaths of those who have perished in the inferno presently raging around Mount Carmel and Haifa.

This is in stark contrast to Al-Jazeera, who finance a website called which is positively effusive about the carnage and rejoicing in every Jewish death.

But Al-Jazeera is not closed down for sponsoring religious or racial hatred.

And will receive no visit from the police.

His Grace does not agree with everything Geert Wilders does or says. But on the question of the existential threat to the State of Israel, Mr Wilders is positively prophetic:

Shalom chaveriem,

Let me start by saying that it is with great sadness that I share your grief over the deaths of more than 40 brave Israelis who lost their lives — many while trying to save others in the great fire near Haifa. My country, the Netherlands, is amongst other countries helping to put down this fire, which is threatening the lives and property of thousands of your compatriots. I offer my heartfelt condolences to the families of those who perished. My thoughts are with them.

Israel is an immense source of inspiration for me. When I came to your country for the first time as a teenager, I lived here for a year.

I am not ashamed to stand with Israel, but proud. I am grateful to Israel. I will always defend Israel. Your country is the cradle of Western civilization. We call it the Judeo-Christian civilization with good reason.

Israel is often being treated unfairly. The world looks at the plight of the Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon, Gaza, and other places, and many blame Israel. The UN claims that there are over 4.7 million Palestinian refugees, and many blame Israel. These voices say the Palestinians should be allowed to return to “Palestine.” But where is Palestine? Many say Israel must solve the problems of Palestine. But is Israel guilty of the plight of the Palestinian refugees?

My answer is “No.” The Arab leaders are to be blamed — and Islam is to be blamed. Let me first tell you why, and then I will tell you where Palestine can be found.

At the end of World War II, there were 50 million refugees. Today, all the refugee problems dating from before the 1950s have been solved. All, except one — the problem of the Palestinians.

Why did this problem not get solved? The reason is simple: Because the Arab countries did not allow it to get solved. And because Islam does not allow it to get solved.
In May 1948, the number of Jews in the Arab countries was estimated to be close to 1 million. Today, fewer than 8,000 Jews are left in the entire Arab world. In 1948, the Arab countries forced the Jews out and confiscated their properties. More Jews fled the Arab countries than Arabs fled Israel. Where are the Jewish refugee camps? There are none.

So, why are there refugee camps for Palestinians in areas surrounding Israel? Because the Palestinians were not welcomed in the neighboring Arab countries. There was no Arab solidarity; the refugees were forced into camps and slums, where many of their descendants still linger today.

Under international definitions the status of refugee or displaced person only applies to first generation refugees. However, the UN makes an exception for Palestinians. Descendants of Palestinian refugees are granted the same refugee status as their ancestors. Consequently, the number of so-called Palestinian refugees registered with the UN increased from 711,000 in 1950 to over 4.7 million in 2010. These refugees are being used as a demographic weapon against Israel.

Instead of blaming the inhospitable Arab regimes, many blame Israel.

My friends, the blame should be laid where it belongs: with the Arab world. The Jewish refugees built new lives for themselves. They did what millions of refugees have done in the course of history, including, in the 20th century, the Germans who had to leave Sudetenland and the lands east of the Oder and Neisse rivers, the Hungarians who fled Transsylvania, the Greeks who were ejected from the Aegean coast of Anatolia, the Hindus who fled the Punjab.

With each generation, the resentment of these refugees and their descendants slowly fades away. Time heals all wounds. Acceptance of the new situation is the norm.

Islam, however, conditions Muslims to hate Jews. It is a religious duty to do so. Israel must be destroyed because it is the homeland of the Jews.

Influential Islamic scholars, such as Muhammad Tantawi, the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar in Cairo, the most prestigious center of Muslim learning, call Jews “enemies of Allah.” Tantawi, who died last March, was generally considered a moderate by the Western media and policy makers. But how did this “moderate” address a delegation of Palestinian Muslims who visited him in 2002?

He urged them to intensify suicide attacks against Israelis, stating that every so-called “martyrdom operation” against — I quote — “any Israeli, including children, women, and teenagers, is a legitimate act according to [Islamic] religious law, and an Islamic commandment, until the people of Palestine regain their land.” — end of quote.

Nizar Qabbani, one of the most revered poets in the Arab world, praised the madness of those who are blinded by an ideology of hatred. In his poem Ode to the Intifada, he wrote: “O mad people of Gaza, A thousand greetings to the mad. The age of political reason has long departed. So teach us madness.”

Thát is the nature of the Islamic enemies confronting the Jews — sheer madness.

Israel, on the other hand, is a beacon of light; it is like a Hanukkah menorah whose lights have been kindled in a region that until 1948 was engulfed by darkness.

Friends, Israel is not to blame for the situation in the Middle East. The problem is Islam’s rejection of Israel’s right to exist. Only last month, Fatah concluded its convention in Ramallah by declaring its blatant refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

The problem is also our Western leaders’ refusal to understand that Israel is the West’s canary in the coalmine: If the Jews are denied the right to live in freedom and peace, soon we will all be denied this right. If the light of Israel is extinguished, we will all face darkness. If Israel falls, the West falls. That is why we are all Israel.

But as long as the West refuses to understand how the Palestinians are used as a weapon against Israel, it will not be able to see who is truly to blame; it will not be able to see that it is not Israel’s duty to provide a Palestinian state — for the simple reason that there already is a Palestinian state and that state is Jordan.
Indeed, my friends, Jordan is Palestine. Take a look at the map of this part of the world after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I. Both contemporary Israel and contemporary Jordan were part of the British Mandate of Palestine.

In 1922, the British partitioned Palestine into Cisjordan and Transjordan — the latter comprising 78 per cent of the territory of Palestine. The British handed that territory over to their ally, the Hashemite strongman Abdallah ibn Hussein. Abdallah was the son of the emir Hussein bin Ali, guardian of the Islamic holy city of Mecca. The Hashemites belong to the Quraish tribe — the tribe of Islam founder Muhammad. They are a foreign body in Palestine.

In 1946, Transjordan became an independent state under Hashemite rule. In November 1947, the United Nations proposed to partition the remaining 22 per cent of Palestine. The territory between the Jordan River and the sea was divided into a Jewish and an Arab part. The Jewish representatives accepted the UN partition plan, but the Arab representatives refused. In an attempt to “drive all the Jews into the sea,” they began the 1948 war — which they lost.

They took revenge, however, on the Jews in East Jerusalem and the rest of Cisjordan — the ancient provinces of Judea and Samaria — held by the Arab forces. This entire region was ethnically cleansed of all Jews. Even the names of Judea and Samaria were wiped off the map and replaced by the ridiculous term “West Bank.” A river bank of over 40 kilometers wide. I come from a country full of rivers, and there the river banks are only a few dozen meters wide.

Israel, including Judea and Samaria, has been the land of the Jews since time immemorial. Judea means Land of the Jews. Never in the history of the world has there been an autonomous state in the area that was not Jewish. The Diaspora of the Jews, which began after their defeat by the Romans in AD 70, did not lead to the departure of all the Jews from their ancient homeland. Jews had been living in the Jordan Valley for centuries until the Arab invaders drove them out in 1948, when the provinces of Judea and Samaria were occupied by the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan, which abbreviated its name to Jordan in 1950.

And until 1967, when Israel regained the ancient Jewish heartland of Judea and Samaria, no-one, not a single Islamic scholar or Western politician, ever demanded that there be an independent Palestinian state in the so-called West Bank.
Must Israel trade land for peace? Should it assign Judea and Samaria to another Palestinian state — a second one, next to Jordan? My friends, let me be very clear: The conflict in the Middle East is not a conflict over territory, but rather an ideological battle.

People are mistaken when they assume that giving up Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem and letting the Palestinians have it, will end the conflict between Israel and the Arabs. In 2005, Israel sacrificed the settlements in Gaza for the sake of peace. Did it get peace?

On the contrary, because the conflict is essentially ideological, the situation worsened. Because the conflict is ideological, territorial concessions are counterproductive. Ideologies cannot be defeated by concessions. They are encouraged and emboldened by it.

Ideologies must be confronted with the iron will never to give in, “never, never, never, never — in nothing, great or small, large or petty.” That is the lesson which the world learned from Winston Churchill when he confronted the evil ideology of nazism.

This conflict here in the Middle East is not about land and borders, but about Islamic jihadism opposing Western liberty. From the moment that Israel was founded, the Arab leaders have rejected every partition plan and every initiative for a territorial settlement. The Islamic ideology simply does not accept the concept of a Jewish state. Neither Hamas nor Fatah are willing to recognize the right of the Jewish people to a state of their own in their historic homeland. No territorial concession on Israel’s part can ever change that.

Israel’s ideological enemies want to wipe Israel out as a nation. They simply deny the Jewish state the right to exist and to live in peace, dignity and liberty.

For the sake of its own survival and security, Israel needs defendable borders. A country that is only 15 kilometers wide is impossible to defend. That is the strategic reason why Jews need to settle Judea and Samaria.

Therefore, the Jewish towns and villages in Judea and Samaria are not an impediment to peace; they are an expression of the Jewish right to exist in this land. They are tiny outposts of freedom, defying ideological forces which deny not only Israel but the entire West the right to live in peace, dignity and liberty.

Let us never forget that Islam threatens not just Israel; Islam threatens the entire world. Without Judea and Samaria, Israel cannot protect Jerusalem. The future of the world depends on Jerusalem. If Jerusalem falls, Athens and Rome — and Paris, London and Washington — will be next.

Thus, Jerusalem is the main front protecting our common civilization. When the flag of Israel no longer flies over the walls of Jerusalem, the West will no longer be free.

However, a peaceful solution must also be found for the many Palestinians in the refugee camps in Lebanon, Gaza and elsewhere. Each year, hundreds of millions of euros and dollars are spent on the Palestinian refugees in international aid.

The financial assistance, however, did not provide the refugees a new home, a place to live and build a future for their children and grandchildren. It is obvious where this place should be. It should be Palestine, just as, after the Second World War, the obvious place for the German refugees from the East to go to, was Germany. Since Jordan is Palestine, it is the duty of the Jordanian government to welcome all Palestinian refugees who voluntarily want to settle there.

Until the late 1980s, Jordan’s Hashemite rulers did not deny that their country was Palestine. They said so on numerous occasions. In 1965, King Hussein said: “Those organizations which seek to differentiate between Palestinians and Jordanians are traitors.” As late as 1981, Hussein repeated — I quote — “Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.”

In March 1971, The Palestine National Council, too, stated that — I quote — “what links Jordan to Palestine is a national bond […] formed, since time immemorial, by history and culture. The establishment of one political entity in Transjordan and another in Palestine is illegal.” — end of quote.

By the late 1970s, however, the Arab authorities began to differentiate between Jordanians and Palestinians. What was previously considered to be treason and illegality suddenly became the propaganda line.

In March 1977, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein admitted in a candid interview in the Dutch newspaper Trouw: — I quote —

“Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot lay claim to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” — end of quote.

In 1988, as the first Intifada raged, Jordan officially renounced any claim of sovereignty to the so-called West Bank. In recent years, the Jordanian authorities have stripped thousands of Palestinians of their Jordanian citizenship. They do so for two reasons.

First, because the alien Hashemite rulers fear that the Palestinians might one day take over their own country. And second, because stripping Palestinians of their Jordanian citizenship supports the falsehood that Jordan is not a part of Palestine. And that, consequently, the Palestinians must attack Israel if they want a place of their own.

By arbitrarily reducing thousands of their citizens to statelessness, the Jordanian authorities want to force the Palestinians to turn their aspirations towards the establishment of another Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria. This decision is a great injustice committed by the Hashemite rulers of Jordan — this foreign clan which the British installed.

I am not naïve. I am not blind to the possibility that if Jordan were to be ruled by the Palestinians, this might lead to political radicalization in Jordan. However, a continuation of the present situation will most certainly lead to radicalization. We need a paradigm shift. If we keep thinking along the same lines as we have done so far, no peaceful solution of the Palestinian problem is possible without endangering the existence of Israel and disrupting the social and economic fabric in Judea and Samaria. Resettling millions of Palestinians in these small provinces is simply impossible and is not going to happen.

To the skeptics, I say: What is the alternative? Leaving the present situation as it is? No, my friends, the world must recognize that there has been an independent Palestinian state since 1946, and it is the Kingdom of Jordan.

Allowing all Palestinians to voluntarily settle in Jordan is a better way towards peace than the current so-called two-states-approach (in reality a three-states-approach) propagated by the United Nations, the U.S. administration, and governing elites all over the world. We only want a democratic non-violent solution for the Palestinian problem. This requires that the Palestinian people should be given the right to voluntarily settle in Jordan and freely elect their own government in Amman. If the present Hashemite King is still as popular as today, he can remain in power. That is for the people of Palestine to decide in real democratic elections.

My friends, let us adopt a totally new approach. Let us acknowledge that Jordan is Palestine.

And to the Western world I say: Let us stand with Israel because the Jews have no other state, while the Palestinians already have Jordan. Let us stand with Israel because the history of our civilization began here, in this land, the homeland of the Jews. Let us stand with Israel because the Jewish state needs defendable borders to secure its own survival. Let us stand with Israel because it is the frontline in the battle for the survival of the West.

We must speak the truth. The truth that Jordan is Palestine, the truth that Samaria and Judea are part of Israel, the truth that Jerusalem may not fall, the truth that Israel is the only democracy in a dark and tyrannical region, the truth that Israel is the linchpin of the West.

Of course, I am just a foreign guest and should be modest. Israel is a democracy and I respect every decision which its people and government will make. But I am proud to be here and grateful for the opportunity to share my thoughts and beliefs with you.

Because it is here that our civilization is under attack as we speak. It is here that we, men and women of the West, must show our resolve to defend ourselves. It is here that Israel has lit the light of freedom and that Europeans and Americans must help the Israelis to keep that light shining in the darkness. For Israel’s sake and for the sake of all of us.

Toda raba… And shalom to all of you.


Blogger Fr Levi said...

This is a new take on an old problem for me. But whether Mr Wilders is right or wrong, one thing is certain: people will continue to suffer in this region & the ripples of that suffering will widen to spread danger and discord elsewhere.

5 December 2010 at 19:59  
Blogger Fantana said...

An excellent post Your Grace. Thank you.

5 December 2010 at 20:25  
Blogger Adam Keller אדם קלר said...

I and several dozen of my friends from Tel Aviv demonstrated outside the hall where this stupid speech was delivered and held the signs "Wilders, you are not wanted here" and "No need to import racists from Holland - we have too many of out own". This bastard has already caused much damage to his own country, let his stay out of ours.

Adam Keller - Gush Shalom, the Israeli Peace Bloc

5 December 2010 at 21:22  
Anonymous Anguished Soul said...

Bravo Mr Geert Wilders! It takes a brave man to stand up for Israel so publicly these days, the world is so full of anti-semitic hatred. But as it is held under the sway of the Evil One, perhaps that isn't so surprising. I'm sure the Lord Almighty will bless Geert for his stand. (Gen. 12.3)

5 December 2010 at 21:50  
Anonymous Martin Sewell said...

It is notable that Mr Keller offers only insult and no substantial rebuttal of the history and opinions quoted.

On this august blog we expect a modicum of Intellectual disputation.

We will happily listen and evaluate a case but you do have to put a little effort into it.

It is not self evident that your views are factually based Mr Keller.

Indeed on the lack of substance you offer it is not yet possible to take you seriously as we would ordinarily wish.

5 December 2010 at 23:16  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Thank you for posting this great speech by Geert Wilders and for
your own enlightened comment.

Today even the BBC reported that the major financier of terrorist groups in this country is Saudi Arabia.

The total inhumanity of shows how far from peace the enemies of Israel are and that alas includes includes her so-called "peace partners".

In late November Christians in the Middle East were referred to as an endangered species.

How sad that so many including some Israelis are working to destroy the only democracy in the Middle East, while playing three wise monkeys to those who wish us no freedom at all.

5 December 2010 at 23:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Adam Keller

I fully agree with Martin Sewell and Ariadne above.

The only thing I find as sad as an atheist jew, is a jew who hates who the rest of the world supposedly perceive the jews and the nation of Israel to be (usurpers and oppressors of a persecuted this what he believes EVERYBODY thinks) and that his nation resides in a beseiged little stretch of land up the Mediterranean Sea coastline and that somehow, by just wanting conciliation with the opposing faction (all arabs/muslims), will somehow miraculously achieve it unilaterally?. Are these the aims of Gush Shalom, the Israeli Peace Bloc..yes?
Unilateralism in a troubled world is a failed ideology because it only opens you up to the opposing faction who threaten, believing you are weak, so why should they negotiate with you?? CND anyone..
Arms reductions was achieved by strength under Reagan/Thatcher from Soviet Union by standing firm and then negotiating!

What Wilders says is correct but who in our country has the guts to make such a statement on behalf of Israel to exist and in safety.

Israel is not perfect as a nation but all reading this.. Tell me a Nation that epitomises what you demand of Israel.

Imagine Britain despised by all around her in Europe, denied the land we live in as claimed by Europeans it is theirs. People can enter and live among you, then cause atrocities by blowing up all indiscriminately on public transport.. Bombed by short range missiles from France but the Government declares it cannot stop these missiles and perpetrators as they cannot control their borders but admitting that the goal of the people launching these bombs is their stated goal too..but not only do they want us removed from the land, they will not stop until the last Brit is killed and driven into the Sea!!

But what can you do if it is in their sacred text and they are determined to complete it by all and any means possible until it is accomplished!

These people in the arab world say peace but mean something completely different.
The Islamic world is one of constant double crosses, uprisings, wars and unrest(Wikileaks confirms this to be so).
Distrust is the one certainty between arab leaders who continually fight amongst themselves.

I remember in the early 90' during the start of the Gulf War how the PLO repaid Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for the billions of dollars in support of its terrorism over the years.Do you remember?.
By providing intelligence data for Iraq for its invasion of Kuwait on its way to overrun Saudi Arabia.
Arafat stated, confident that Hussein was only just short of triumph, poised at Saudi Arabia's border: "We say to the brother and leader Saddam Hussein, 'Go forward with Allah's blesing!'"
This are the type of people Israel are dealing with!

Only Islam and the crazed passion to destroy Israel unites them.

Yet if we were Israel and all the things they say such as 'peace, peace' at the staged western Media's invitation but they then brazenly go on their own arabic media and now state 'Kill the British where ever you find them, it is holy jihad to do this until not one of them is left to be found' Would we really believe and trust them with a peace negotiation process between us..NEVER.( Put 'kill the Jew' where it says British and tell me how you would feel)
Yet the world appears to believe Israel should be that blindly stupid and do this.

Would We in their position?

Truly 'Do as we say, not as we would do'.
Only if it were happening to us (GB) instead of Israel maybe we would understand..I do not condone all that Israel does but I am asking for balance and realism here!!!!!!


5 December 2010 at 23:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it just me or does anyone else think is this a rather dramatic, one sided and simplistic presentation of the complexities in the middle east?

Space, time and inclination prevents me from outlining some salient facts here. But lets remember that since Canaan was promised to Abraham and his successors over 3000 years ago the tribes of Israel have but a few years of effective government. Indeed until the mid-20th century they were a small minority in the region.

Also, am I correct in recalling that in 610, when the land was under Christian Byzantine control, the Jewish people joined the Persian invaders and killed countless Christians thereby opening the door to Islam in 635?

Me thinks there is evidence of Islamophobia here!

The Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Brish Mandate are murky matters indeed. Israel declared independance in 1948 before a settlement with her Arab neighbours could be reached - hence the war. In the 1920's, when Muslims numbered 90% of the population, Jewish paramilitary organisations fought the British. Illegal immigration occurred in the 1930's and 1940's.

Anyway, enough to give you a flavour. Geert Wilder passioned analysis is dangerous and not conducive to peace.

I agree that today Israel is Israel and the Arab, Persian and African Muslims need to accept this. But lets not dress this up as if Israel has done no wrong down the years.

6 December 2010 at 00:05  
Anonymous not a machine said...

It is an interesting speech with perhaps some history that many would not be aware of. He picks up some useful threads , namely what radical Islam does put out even at its more scholarly levels .As if death to the jews will be a triumph for Islam , as if those who rever Moses are seperate from parts of the Koran . He perhaps offers a warning and a question about Islam in its current thinking .
Any attempts so far made to ask Islam to question itself in a movement of enlightenment is cut down and deemed heresy , quite why and how it has developed into this strange sort of wealthy shoping states and yet is uanble to adopt any enlightend thinking on jews or faiths other than Islam , shows me it does not welcome thinking , it perhaps adjusts ,but does not yet accept that its radicalisation is a tradgey , very much forged in the totalitarian mould .
Of course Arabia has a rich history , but it doen not seem to have the kind of history that has moved to the modern world , via the same cultural understandings as the west has , which has gone down the route of democracy and universal sufferage .
When that picture of a child with an explosive vest , was parents new jihad joy , you can see the differneces in what is being taught , again scholarly Islam was silent , no making your mind up with adult reasoning , no telling these parents if there should be a differnet way .
In that sense they do not understand why the west looks upon radical Islam with disbelief and if choices are such a threat to Islam and how closed it is.
The jews do have a scriptural narrative of peace being a better attainment than war , Islam for some reason cannot order its scripture in the same way .
He is right to ask , perhaps plead for some new thinking in what is being interpretted in widening circles as Islamic tyranny , but will Islam see what it is becomming , but then again it would have to accept western thinking to change .

6 December 2010 at 00:24  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Adam Keller @ 21.22:


If you wish to thrash yourself, become a Roman Catholic...

6 December 2010 at 00:42  
Blogger srizals said...

"Thus, Israel Shahak's book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3,000 Years" is all the more important for being a document by a aknowledgeable Jew -- a Jewish "insider" -- about the beliefs and behavior of his fellow Jews. Born in Warsaw in 1933, Shahak spent a portion of his childhood in the concentration camp in Belsen, from which he immigrated to Palestine in 1945. He grew up in Israel, served in the Israeli military, and became a chemistry professor. Like all Israelis, he became fluent in Hebrew. He also became acclimated to the peculiar moral atmosphere of Israeli society: a combination of overweening arrogance and deceit, a mixture of pugnacious self-righteousness and duplicity.

Unlike his fellow Israelis, however, Professor Shahak is deeply troubled by this peculiar atmosphere. Whereas the Jews around him take it for granted that the goyim on whom they depend for economic, military, and diplomatic support are too stupid ever to figure out what the Jews think about them and say about them behind their backs and plan to do to them when they can, and too sheeplike ever to take effective action if they do figure it out, he worries. He remembers that the Romans figured it out, and they consequently sacked Jerusalem and ended their cult in Palestine. He remembers that the Germans figured it out, and that's why he became an involuntary tenant in a concentration camp. He's worried that if his fellow Jews continue behaving as they always have, they will get themselves into some really serious trouble -- again."

Please stop this madness. Israel has the right to exist. Just let the people who were driven out that owned the land and building be return to their land and houses. Is it too much to ask? If they are not Palestinians, fine. But they are still the rightful owners that were driven out in 1948. Thank you Mr. Adam Keller. You're the proof that not all Israeli support injustice.

6 December 2010 at 00:47  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the same Wilders who wanted to ban the Qur'an described the Muslim headscarf as 'head-rags'? Wasn't he prosecuted for incitement to hatred and discrimination in 2009?

The same chap raised as a Roman Catholic and now an agnostic? The man who questions parliamentary democracy because it leads to rule by concensus? The 'democrat' who wants to restrict equality under the law to Christians, Jews and Humanists - not 'others'? Wants to ban preaching in languages other than Dutch?

"I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam"! Muhammad is the "devil", A "barbarian" "retarded" and a "peadophile". The Qur'an is "Fascist book".

Geert Wilders is a dangerous extremist supported financially in his hatred of Islam by American fundamentalist Christians. He's scaremongering - the civilization of modern Europe and the West is about to fall just as Rome fell!

His politics play into the hands of terrorists. External attack always leads to consolidation and strenghtening of idealogies. Isn't this the strategy of extreme Islamists? Consolidate Muslim identity and make it militant by drawing hatred to it?

Dangerous, dangerous views, Mr Wilders.

And shame on this blog for giving his ideas space.

Mr E.Man

6 December 2010 at 00:56  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Another post dissappears ! my name is not Assange

6 December 2010 at 00:57  
Anonymous len said...

"We must speak the truth".

Otherwise we become part of the lie,bravely said and bravely presented Your Grace.

6 December 2010 at 01:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My post now disappears!

Was my analogy with Us in Great Britain and Israel (putting us in their postion if surrounded by enemies on all sides) so pointed that it needed to be deleted?

Where has the intelligent and erudite discernment gone?

However nothing 'plays into the hands of terrorist'..It is the nature of the beast!

People come on this blog spouting lies yet to show from their own writings it is incorrect only and only this, is tantamount to hatred, consolidating muslim identity and making it militant?

Where is the freedom of speech to question what is stated to see if it stands examination.


6 December 2010 at 01:22  
Anonymous Martin Sewell said...

With respect I do not think it was ever Mr Wilder's intention to offer a formula for consensual peace in the middle east but rather to make the case that the historical choices of Arab Governments make such an aspiration an illusion.

I fear I have yet to hear that rather depressing conclusion dismantled.

6 December 2010 at 01:48  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

His Grace has deleted no comments from this thread.

Indeed, when he deletes anything, it doesn't disappear, but leaves the message: 'Deleted by Blog Administrator'.

His Grace is not sure why any comments might be disappearing, but he suggests you make a copy just in case, and then re-submit. It must be a Blogger gremlin.

6 December 2010 at 07:31  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

I admire Wilders for his bravery and his warnings about Islamic expansionism.

I dislike Wilders because of his support for Israel and their God given land nonsense.

So the Jews and the Christians are going to gang up against the Moslems.

Adam Keller who lives in Israel tells me Wilders is a racist.

What is the poor atheist to think except perhaps to say “a plague on all your houses”. Without your noxious religions there might have been “peace and goodwill for all men”

6 December 2010 at 09:55  
Anonymous Tancred said...

Oswin 0:42.

I think YOU need to grow up. When the catholic countries fought against the expansion of Islam in Cyprus, Malta, Vienna etc the northern Protestants were stabbing them in the back.

There are too many similarities between Protestantism, in style and methods, and Islam to be a coincidence. Too much help from Northern Protestant countries/politicians for militant Islam - then and now.

France and Italy helped the victims of the 30th October massacre of Christians in Baghdad - the British media covered it up!

I have searched for +Williams denunciation but there isn't one! Go to almost any Catholic site and you will see genuine concern and condemnation for the slaughter of fellow Christians...... and prayers.

Protestants have handed this country away, turned it into a secular state. You sell your churches for conversion into mosques. Your Archbishop supports the adoption of Sharia Law. They have marginalised their own religion, retreated - most do not even believe let alone attend church.

Now genuinely Christian people are fleeing it in droves - to Rome and other denominations.

I only hope that a resurgence in true, and muscular, belief can gather soon enough to rescue Israel and the West from the violent TheoPolitcal cult of Islam.

6 December 2010 at 10:09  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr Tancred, below you will find a link to wikipedia about the Siege of Vienna 1683. Vienna was defended from the Turks by the Holy League consisting of the Holy Roman Empire and Poland. During the siege Catholic France took the opportunity to invade and occupy much of western and southern Germany. Was this a Protestant act by a Catholic power? Or was it just Catholic French opportunism at its worst?


6 December 2010 at 11:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God bless Geert Wilders. May the Dutch/EU attempt to convict him for telling the truth about the ‘religion of peace’ fail.

6 December 2010 at 11:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Graham Davis said 6 December 2010 09:55

Are you ever serious?

You words betray your 'hatred belief system' of any other view other than your own!

Your argument is based on 1 part of a two part argument..That even if the biblical argument is false..There is no God..They, Israel, have no right to remain in a land that was assigned to them under The League Of Nations because the are JEWISH (the Balfour Declaration in its final implementation may well have turned out to be a shoddy peace of diplomacy but it was done under the order of appeasement( Arabs did not want to EVEN honour and accept their given land portion after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which had previous existed as provinces, even though it was greater than the Earlier declaration) and gain (The hope of favoured agreement for oil) from the nation it gave more land to( the indigenous population of Arabs?) and confirmed by the UN.

How are The Jews and Christians 'ganging up' on Moslems.?

Is it too much to ask that if the Moslems say 'Peace for Land' that we may want them to honour this.
Or we have doubts that they are sincere as they say one thing to the western media and diplomats and another to their own people, behaving differently as it suits them?

'Without your noxious religions there might have been “peace and goodwill for all men' Really?

Go and tell that to those who had and still do suffer persecution, imprisonment or were/are murdered in the Soviet Union or China and other communist states that adopted your atheist statement and who made it into a political system..Or can we not challenge the murderers and oppressors who are the fruit of your belief system?
Show me, where is your UTOPIA of Atheists who run things so well that 'peace and goodwill' are a natural outcome?


6 December 2010 at 13:10  
Anonymous Douglas Knight said...

Geert Wilders is right about the history. The fact that this sounds so unfamiliar to us should make us Brits wonder about why we have misidentified the perpetrators here. Why do we imagine that Arabs are solely victims of outside violence when there is such widespread violence within Arab states? I particularly appreciate the point that the Hashemites who rule Jordan are not themselves from Jordan and that their own hold on power has been a long-term factor on Jordan's refusal of citizenship to Palestinians.
Israel is never the real issue, but just the way that the corrupt deflect their populations from the real issues. Muslims in the Middle East are brutal towards their own, and perhaps this is because Islam does not make it easy for the rule of law and civil society to emerge. Until we allow that thought to emerge in British political life, civil society and the rule of law will likely become less secure here at home.
I also loved the mixed metaphor – Israel is the canary in the coalmine, the canary from which the light shines. He is quite right, of course

6 December 2010 at 13:15  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Anonymous (whose post disappeared): I remember your comment.

Another Anonymous went back into distant history, ignoring the fact that Israel was founded as a secular Jewish state.

I recommend a reading of this: A Muslim Scholar Speaks on Islam & Jerusalem

Douglas Knight, beautifully put and wholly accurate.

6 December 2010 at 13:20  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

If anyone can throw any light on why random comments are mysteriously disappearing (even Anon ones), His Grace would be appreciative. Blogger admin never respond to such questions.

6 December 2010 at 13:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ariadne said.

Thank you for confirming I did post a comment that was deleted..I thought I was going mad?

I agree with what Douglas Knight said and your agreement of it's concise point of view.


6 December 2010 at 13:29  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Re "The Case of the Disappearing Posts."

It's happened to me fairly often over the last couple of years. It's pain when one's spent a while thinking out a post, so I eventually started copying and pasting as HG suggests.

As to possible reasons - Someone operating a practice run on internet censorship? Someone collecting 'information' for their "files" on bloggers - for whatever purpose? The wv program collecting stuff in order to wow us with "coincidence"? Someone making a mistake while supervising the Blogworld? Blogspot just having gremlins?

"Ours is not to reason why ... "

6 December 2010 at 14:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ummm ..

So a poltician, inspired by Mein Camp, who sees a worldwide conspiracy by a religious group. Who is concerned about democracy because it is based on 'concensus. One who wants to ban the Koran and public speaking in anything other than Dutch; to ethnically cleanse Dutch society and Europe of the religious minority threatening the fabric of civilisation. I could go on! He calls the headscarf a "rag"; Mohammed a "retard" a paedopile" and the "devil"; the Koran "Evil". Talk about stirring up hatred and paranoia!

Actually it has a familiar ring to it - doesn't it? Is he the agnostic saviour of the West? Sieg Heil Mein Furher!

Whilst I accept fundamentalist Islamist ideas are viloent and that Muhammed had a perverse (and maybe diabolic) comprehension of Judaism and Chritinity, the way ahead isn't the one proposed by Furher Wilder!

Pope John Paul 11 and Benedict XXVI have a more appropriate approach AT THIS TIME - engage men of goodwill and open a theological and rational discussion. There may come a time when more robust action is demanded. Not now. The Muslim world is divided - Arab, African, Persian, Asian and East European. Do we really want to unite them?

Anyway, enough of my rant against this extremist.

Mr E.Man

6 December 2010 at 15:45  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

Who are these blog administrators?

Stand up and be counted as I too have had posts deleted.

I cannot imagine it was their content as they were quite innocuous.

6 December 2010 at 16:04  
Blogger Ariadne said...

There are commenters here who need badly to read some history.

What Arabs call the "nakba" (the catastrophe) was brought about by Arab leaders.

Those Arab leaders then failed to do the right thing by the Arabs they had caused to leave.

6 December 2010 at 17:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, Israel should expand. They's given up land and made accessions time after time since 1948, only taking back when and what is necessary to defend its people.

God had a much larger Israel in mind than the League of Nations. Here is a description of The Promised Land in the Bible:
"On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates - the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."
Genesis 15:18-21

6 December 2010 at 19:00  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Amen to that, St Nikao.

Alas I think that within those large boundaries Israel would not have the material in percentage population terms to produce the kind of successes it has produced to date.

I don't know what the Islamic equivalent of de-Nazification might be but I don't envisage Muslims being able to undergo it in the same relatively short time as Germans did.

Many still worship al Husseini, the wartime Nazi and war criminal Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

6 December 2010 at 21:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Geert Wilders is unpopular in Europe and the powers in the EU, as he speaks the truth. The very idea that Europe's civilisation is on the whole based on Christianity, is anathema to the EU ruling class.

6 December 2010 at 21:15  
Anonymous bluedog said...

The good news is that no Arab leader quoted in wikileaks has yet raised the Israel-Palestine dispute as a causus belli. Which underlines the point many are making. It is clear that the Sunni Arab despots of the Gulf see Iran as the threat to their position, not Israel. In short Israel can continue to expand into the 'West Bank' without fear of reprisal, even from Obama the Brief.

6 December 2010 at 22:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

Israel needs to cease from making concessions – and expand its territory.

The one-state solution is necessary.

7 December 2010 at 07:52  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Tancred @ 10.09:

I fear you misunderstood my wee sally against a self-flagellating jewish revisionist.

I would not necessarily disagree with your wider appraisal; indeed, it was most interesting.

7 December 2010 at 11:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Adam Keller, you are pathetic.

7 December 2010 at 19:04  
Anonymous Jonathan Stuart-Brown said...

I will bless those who bless you, I will curse those who curse you.
Genesis 12 verse 3

Psalm 122 v 6
Pray for the peace and prosperity of Jerusalem.

May The UK Government bless Israel and not divide, nor think of dividing, Jerusalem...a City built by God not man.

God still has the same deal. An Apple we are NOt to touch. Israel and Jerusalem is The Apple of His Eye.

7 December 2010 at 21:54  
Blogger KINGOFHIGHCS said...

Jonathon Stuart-Brown said

Amen to all the above!


7 December 2010 at 21:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Jews think this guy is their friend, then they have gone mad..

7 December 2010 at 23:02  
Blogger KINGOFHIGHCS said...

Theresa said

Maybe so ?

However, as it took the Roman Catholic Church close to nearly 50 years to recognise the State Of Israel, can Jews rely on Roman Catholicism as it's FRIEND?

I state this as an ex catholic who knows the church's position with regard to how it views the Jews!.


8 December 2010 at 02:34  
Anonymous Tony B said...

>The Jewish refugees built new lives for themselves. They did what millions of refugees have done in the course of history, including, in the 20th century, the Germans who had to leave Sudetenland and the lands east of the Oder and Neisse rivers, the Hungarians who fled

isn't it more accurate to liken them to the Poles and Czechs who took over those formerly German lands, and the Palestinian Arabs to those who fled them?

8 December 2010 at 18:35  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Tony B, Jews fled and Arabs fled because of Arabs.

What are you suggesting?

8 December 2010 at 20:31  
Anonymous Tony B said...

So you're saying that no Arabs fled because they were driven out by Jews, who were largely arriving from outside the Middle East? Obviously I read the wrong history books.

9 December 2010 at 14:16  
Blogger Ariadne said...

I was asking you what you were suggesting by comparing Jewish refugees, bereaved, terrorised and expelled by Arabs, to Germans who caused two world wars; and further calling other Arabs, who largely sided with Nazis, victims of Jewish refugees from Nazism, when the instigators of Arabs' flight from Mandate Palestine were Arabs.

If those are your conclusions you obviously haven't read history.

I recommend Efraim Karsh's Palestine Betrayed

9 December 2010 at 14:46  
Blogger dutchlionfrans1953 said...

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10 December 2010 at 18:58  
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10 December 2010 at 19:09  
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10 December 2010 at 19:13  
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10 December 2010 at 19:19  

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