Wednesday, January 05, 2011

Coptic Christians cannot celebrate Christmas for fear of Muslim terror attacks… in Germany



Who cares about the Copts?

His Grace has spoken of their plight many times (eg HERE and HERE), yet there is no respite from their appalling persecution.

Perhaps now that the terror has reached Europe, the authorities may act.

For the Copts are not only being threatened in Germany: the inexorable Islamist jihad is also spreading through the Netherlands, with Coptic churches in Italy, France, Austria, Sweden and the UK also being targeted.

There is now a general terrorist threat against Coptic Christians living throughout Europe.

Bishop Angaelos of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Britain said they have been in touch with the Metropolitan Police and have made them aware of the threats.

The police informed the Bishop that they had not received reports of any threats.

Funny, that.

Because the authorities in the Netherlands, France and Germany have taken the threats seriously and issued heightened terror alerts, providing Copts and their churches with enhanced protection.

Do British Copts have to wait for 21 members of their church to be splattered on bloody walls before their plight is covered by the British media?

The threat emanates from Shumukh al Islam website, a radical Islamist site affiliated with al Qaeda. The person who posted the target list online urged followers to ‘blow up the churches during the Christmas celebration since it is the best time, where these churches are crowded’. The website specifically names 15 Copts to be murdered.

And then there is a hyperlink to a manual on how to make a bomb.

Very helpful.

Why target the Copts?

Why not Roman Catholics or Anglicans?

It is estimated that there are 5000 Copts in Austria, 11,000 in Italy, 4,000 in Sweden, 10,000 in the Netherlands and 24,000 in France. Copts represent the largest indigenous Christian community in the Middle East, and the strategy appears to be to intimidate the West through the targeting of this pre-Arab, pre-Islamic Christian group which has sought refuge from the Islamic world. The Islamists are essentially testing the soft underbelly of the beast. When apathy and indifference are established, they will doubtless escalate their jihad and turn on other Christian groups.

Die Welt reports that Copts in Frankfurt get police protection. Bishop Anba Damian, head of Coptic Church in Germany, tells us that the threats were of such gravity that they could not celebrate the birth of Christ (Copts celebrate Christmas on 7 January, according to the Julian calendar). He has called on Cairo’s leading Muslims to condemn attacks on Coptic churches, especially of those cheering and jeering on the streets of Egypt. He is grateful to the Pope for his unequivocal message of condemnation.

France has a special anti-terrorist group investigating threats to their Coptic community. The German Interior Ministry confirmed a letter sent from Bishop Damian expressing fears of terror attack received before the bomb in Alexandria exploded.

The comments section beneath the article are illuminating, as always. They contain condemnation of the Christian churches in Germany for not helping Iraqi Christians seek asylum ‘for fear of offending Muslims in Germany’.

And then we read: Liebe Leser, die Kommentarfunktion zu diesem Artikel wurde abgeschaltet. Wir bitten um Ihr Verständnis.

Which translates: ‘Dear Readers, the Comments Section has been closed. We ask for your understanding.’

This censorship in Germany occurs increasingly on three principal issues: a) Islam; b) the euro; c) immigration; which perhaps shows just how far public opinion bubbles over on these issues and the media feel obliged to suppress comment. Germany has far fewer blogs than the Netherlands so these Die Welt comments are an important outlet for a frustrated population.

And so we are at the point where Christians in the EU cannot celebrate Christmas for fear of Islamist terror attacks: it appears that a Muslim minority can now prevent Christian celebration in ostensibly Christian countries. Is the pusillanimity of the German government indicative of its non-Christian mentality or its Neo-Marxist pragmatism?

When Christians are reduced to dhimmitude in their own nations, the convulsion cannot be long delayed.

To their credit, the three largest Muslim organisations in the Netherlands have called on Muslims to protect Coptic Churches in Eindhoven, Amsterdam and Utrecht.

We await a similar call from the Muslim Council of Britain.

For an excellent summary of the strategic implications of the destruction of Egypt’s churches, please read George Friedman’s excellent article.

Please note that this news is brought to you by His Grace, courtesy of CNN, the Voice of America and Die Welt.

The BBC and the rest of the British media slumber on in dhimmitude.

87 Comments:

Anonymous +Dewi Menevia said...

Your Grace, the churches in Britain seem to be very reluctant to support our sisters and brothers who are constantly faced with murderous attacks throughout the (ever larger) Dar al-Islam.

Not only do Christians suffer in the Bible lands of Egypt, Iraq, and Palestine, but also further afield. Your Grace, our nations' missionaries took the Good News of God's love in Jesus to Pakistan and Nigeria. Are we now willing to abandon the saints in those countries to their fate without saying a word?

How do we cast off the shackles of dhimmitude without being portrayed of bigots and racists? We must at least try.

5 January 2011 at 09:25  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

>>Why target the Copts?
Why not Roman Catholics or Anglicans?<<

Weakest first?

No-one is exempt from this fanaticism. Salman Taseer the Punjab Governor was assassinated by one of his own bodyguards for defending a Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy. Whether the average Muslim in the street is a nice guy is neither here nor there. How can a civilized society remain silent in the face of theses continuing atrocities? How many more before the dhimwits wake up? - Or will it be too late?

5 January 2011 at 09:55  
Anonymous Voyager said...

"Whether the average Muslim in the street is a nice guy is neither here nor there."

A. Hitler was renowned for his charm with women and young children, but he had another side too...

There is the old German phrase from "Der Erlkoenig" Ich kann auch anders !

(I can get what I want in another way)

If you give them what they want....(an don't we ?)....they can be ever so nice until they decide to be otherwise.

Muslims are rarely praised for their constancy and reliability......scorpions and frogs

5 January 2011 at 10:06  
Anonymous Stuart said...

Who cares about the Copts?

I also care deeply:

1 Corinthians 12: 25 – 27

....so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.


Thanks for highlighting this Your Grace.

5 January 2011 at 10:09  
Anonymous JayBee said...

I am appalled by this persecution of the Coptic Christians and hope that at least in the UK they will be protected. However, the police seem to be taking this about as seriously as they do when women complain about credible murder threats by their partners. Nothing gets done until after the tragic event. Then there is an inquiry from which lessons will be learned, but of course they never are.

The censorship of comment in Germany is a disturbing indicator of possible collusion. Might the EU be content to let Islam off the leash to persecute Christians on their behalf? Perhaps it is not that Islam is testing the soft underbelly of the Beast but rather that the Beast is more than happy to let Islamofacism do something that it would rather not be seen to be actively engaged in. After all there are human rights conventions which must be publicly upheld, even if they are not.

5 January 2011 at 10:43  
Blogger oldmaid said...

A scandalous state of affairs.

Sadly, I am not surprised by the response of our police and the selective blindness and deafness of our CP PC hand wringing politicos either.

They along with the media turn a blind eye to muslims rioting in our streets. Yet the evidence is all over youtube and elsewhere outside the mainstream media.

I fear it will be up to the people to protect each other against the forces of evil; no matter what shape or form that evil manifests itself in

5 January 2011 at 11:07  
Anonymous Michal said...

Trust Cranmer to blow things out of proportion. Coptic priest from Germany appeared on EuroNews yesterday. "We won't celebrate, but not because we're afraid. We won't celebrate because we're sad."

But of course, Cranmer loves the idea of people being afraid of muslims.

5 January 2011 at 11:17  
Anonymous Fox in sox said...

Your Grace,

I am troubled by the plight of Copts, and indeed of other Christian communities oppressed in the middle East and Asia, and indeed other faiths such as the Bahai and Jews. It speaks volumes that Bishop Nazir-Ali felt that he had to cease being Bishop in order to continue to highlight these issues.

Do you know any suitable relief organisations that we sympathisers of the Copts can support, to show solidarity?

Fox in sox

5 January 2011 at 11:17  
Blogger Virtual Methodist said...

Just recieved this from the Mosques and Imams Advisory Board (don't ask me why I'm on their mailing list)...
Mosques & Imams National Advisory Board

www.minab.org.uk



MINAB Condemns the suicide bombing on a Coptic Church in Egypt



The Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board (MINAB) condemns the suicide bombing that targeted a Coptic church in Alexandria on New Year's Day. Such attacks are affront to all human and religious values and aim to disrupt the harmony of our communities who have lived together for hundreds of years.



The Chair of MINAB, Maulana Shahid Raza, OBE, has expressed his deep concern and condemned the attacks. "Any such attack or threat to a place of worship is abhorrent and is an attack on all of us" he said. "We stand united in offering solidarity against the targeting of Christian communities and other minority communities in the Middle East which aims to destroy community relations and inspire hate and discord”.



The MINAB calls upon Mosques in the UK and the Middle East to re emphasis the Quranic message of protecting places of worship and challenge these extreme views and to pray for the innocent victims of this barbaric act through their sermons, and any other means.



We call upon all peace loving people to work together to root out such forms of extremism and to build resilience to challenge and disrupt all forms of extremism. Such extremists are evil murderers, who incite hatred and are destroying our cohesion and damaging the dignity of religion and faith.



Notes to Editors:

1. The Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board (MINAB) is the representative body of all UK Muslim denominations set up to promote good governance in Mosques and Imam Training Institutions through a process of self regulation.

2. It has over six hundred mosques and training institutions as its members.

3. It is a charity registered under the laws of England & Wales.

4. It is a community led independent body, non sectarian in its outlook, representing the diversity of Islam with no role in matters of theology and is broad based with an accountable system of representation.

5 January 2011 at 11:28  
Blogger Richard Gadsden said...

When will the Copts celebrate Christmas?

I believe that they use the Julian calendar (invented by a Coptic-speaking Egyptian astronomer, though before Christ) for liturgical purposes so Christmas Day is the 7th January by the Gregorian calendar, the difference between the two being 13 days from 1901 to 2099.

5 January 2011 at 11:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And yet again our heroic girls in blue decide that there is no public interest to be served trying to protect the innocent and maintain the peace ahead of actual attack for fear of appearing racist or islamophobic. Bet a million shekhels, however, that The Yard would deploy the cavalry if there was a sniff of possible trouble in other parts of town in order to preserve community relations.

5 January 2011 at 12:51  
Anonymous EDL Theology Forum said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5 January 2011 at 12:52  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

His Grace is not a great fan of hyperlinks for the promotion of other agendas. This is a blog for intelligent discourse.

5 January 2011 at 12:59  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Your Grace.
Virtual Methodist is kind enough to share with us the MINAB response to such atrocities, that are commited in the name of Islam.
Whether this body have any authority with the mullahs or mosques is open to question, but the facts speak for themselves, innocent people are being murdered for daring to believe differently from the followers of Islam.
Muslims are just people, they have a God given right to believe in whatever they like & to practice their faith without interference from others.
BUT the problem arises from the teachings that many receive in the mosques throughout the World, i.e Islam will dominate the World by force of arms, that to practice free will & leave Islam is counted as aspotate & punishable by death.
That all others outside of Islam are worthy of death unless they become muslims.
Thus fair words from an advisory body are virtually worthless unless Imams & Mullahs allow their people the right to decide the truth for themselves, without the fear of death & persecution that currently threatens them if they change from Islam.
It is true to say that freedom is dangerous, but if the leaders of Islam are sure that they alone have the truth then let it be put to the test, by teaching what they believe & letting the people choose. As Elijah did on Mt Carmel.

But the Christian Church must be willing to step out of the shadows & get our own house in order or lose by default. to often we say that we are evangelical, but we don't evangelise. To quote the words of Smith Wigglesworth,"Fear looks but Faith leaps".

The future lies in ALL our hands, it's that serious.
Imams & pastors, vicars, priests & people.

The Nazi party in Germany started small but left unchecked it plunged us into W.W II. despite the placatory efforts of Neville Chamberlain to avert catastrophe by believing the lies of Hitler.
Not all the German people were Nazis but it was too late to alter course by the time the beast had grown to full stature.

5 January 2011 at 13:04  
Blogger srizals said...

Ops, beware of invoking the Godwin's law, Mr. Preacher. But since you're not a Muslim, your excluded I think.

But I wonder why the small-numbered Coptics that I think hated the Jews and where would the terrorist attack ends. Total war between reluctant Muslims and Christians? Would that be playing into the hands of the terrorists that would die to see us kill each other?

5 January 2011 at 13:20  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Michal @ 11:17

You blame Cranmer???

The empty vessel that you wear over your head - do you call it a bucket, or a pail?

I think it is 'others' who ''blow things out of proportion''!

See: New Year's Day bomb attack in Alexandria, 21 Coptic Christians killed, 70 injured ... but you knew that anyway, but chose to attack Cranmer instead...?

5 January 2011 at 13:49  
Anonymous Oswin said...

srizals @ 13:20

I know nothing re' the Copts attitude towards the Jews, but most of Christendom has managed, almost throughout history, to ''hate the Jews'' ... I see no especial reason why the Copts should warrant much comment on that score. We all own (well, most/some of us) to that lingering disgrace.

PS. I left a comment re' your question about the Druids. My apologies for not being able to supply a convenient link. I shall scrat around to see what is available.

5 January 2011 at 14:08  
Blogger srizals said...

That what made me wonder Oswin, why the Copts?, whatever they have done? Something sinister is cooking. I wish the Egyptians would get them, sooner, the better, whoever they are. Dead or alive.
As for the druids, thanks, will check it out.

Also my resource of this cowardly inhumane attack.

http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/mossad-bombs-alexandria-church/

5 January 2011 at 14:17  
Anonymous Bede said...

I noticed that when BBC TV news reported this atrocity, it referred to the often bad relations between Copts and Muslims - implying that it was six of one and half a dozen of the other!

5 January 2011 at 14:30  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Srizals.
Your beliefs, My beliefs, We are human beings, People!.
You have a right to your beliefs, I have a right to mine. We both have a right to exchange views without fear of persecution from ANY outside agent.

5 January 2011 at 14:48  
Blogger oldmaid said...

YG

As you point out, this is not reported in the UK media, for reasons best known to themselves, and probably the police and the politicos, however elsewhere it is

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,737794,00.html

5 January 2011 at 14:53  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

Picking up on the dialogue between Oswin and srizals I found this interesting account on the internet:
http://www.netanyahu.org/whattheydont.html
Looking forward, how can further atrocities be prevented? A straightforward internet search indicates where the problem lies.

5 January 2011 at 15:01  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Perhaps Your Grace would consider composing a sermon on how Christendom and the West should defend themselves against Islam and, in particular, those virtuous Muslims who take Allah’s word as gospel and kill the infidel.

Then again, Your Grace believes that ‘A person’s religious beliefs are his or her personal domain’ and that it would be impertinent of the state even to establish the size of Britain’s Muslim community: ‘Today’s invasion of privacy will be tomorrow’s loss of liberty.’ How much liberty, though, will be left to us as Islam grows ever stronger?

One of the parties contesting the Oldham East and Saddleworth by-election next week has been warning of the dangers of Islam since Mohammed was a lad. Your Grace dismisses the party as ‘fascist’. Time to think again?

5 January 2011 at 15:13  
Anonymous John Thomas said...

I often wonder what, just what it would take for the British public/media/authorities to wake up to this reality? I imagine the bombing of Westminster Abbey, or murdering of a rural congregation, during services - but of course, our gutless dhimmified government would blame such events on mere "criminality", and not at all anything to do with Islam, oh no ...

5 January 2011 at 15:29  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Johhny R.

Let us take back, unto ourselves, the word 'infidel' - it is an English construction of, or both, French & Latin, of the first quarter of the 15th, century and pertains solely to Mohammedans.

(the Wikipedia assertion is incorrect as to both date and initial usage)

5 January 2011 at 17:06  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

Preacher said...
January 2011 13:04

"BUT the problem arises from the teachings that many receive in the mosques throughout the World, i.e Islam will dominate the World by force of arms, that to practice free will & leave Islam is counted as aspotate & punishable by death.
That all others outside of Islam are worthy of death unless they become muslims."

srizals said...
5 January 2011 13:20

"Ops, beware of invoking the Godwin's law, Mr. Preacher."

"Total war between reluctant Muslims and Christians? Would that be playing into the hands of the terrorists that would die to see us kill each other?"

According to 'Godwin's Law' Mr Preacher you are excluded from further contributions!

We all abhor wonton violence directed at innocent people. But let's be a bit more strategic and considerate in our responses.

srizals makes a pertinent point. Not all Muslims are baying for christian blood. Not all Muslims are indoctrinated into the gospel of hate. (Is it many, as Preacher declares?)

Lets root out the fanatics and deal with them. Lets identify their agents and bring them to justice. Any nation supporting the use of violence should also be regarded as committing an act of war.

Don't label all Muslims as religious fanatics intent on world domination and ridding the planet of those of different faiths.

As srizals observes, this merely plays into the hands of the wicked who seek to stir up hate and inflame passion.

5 January 2011 at 18:07  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

len said...
4 January 2011 20:06

"I have often wondered what Islam and Catholicism had in common.It has always puzzled me.

Then I saw it."

Then an outpouriing of your reading of future history - or that of your pastors.

What you 'saw' sir was your own peculiar and rather odd fantasy. I think Orthodox christians would challenge your assertion that the 'east' is dominated by Islam.

Grow up!

5 January 2011 at 18:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sorry for you Christian guys, but, this is the natural consequence of the teaching of 'forgiveness' and the crazy idea that one should meekly offer the other cheek and be martyred for the faith.

Christians all over the world are getting oppressed and murdered for their faith since years -- so what makes the Copts different and why only complain now and not before?

'Critical mass' finally reached or what? (pun intended, sadly so)

Also, the (un?)intended consequence of tolerating abuse of any kind is that it always escalates and breeds more contempt and a more cruel kind of sadist -- presenting both cheeks will always get ones' ass kicked eventually.

And this masochism seems to be a strange vanity peculiar to Christianity -- as if suffering demonstrates some kind of moral superiority over your attacker, for hundreds of years Christians have let themselves be martyred in horrible ways, when often subterfuge and selective aggression would have saved their lives and advanced their cause.

So, I'm not sure that Christians can be helped, because what they'd have to do to help themselves would mean that they'd have to break with the tradition of giving Caesar what is Caesars and instead, give Caesar exactly what he deserves(and then some).

I wish they did just that, I like Christians and would not like to see a world without them :(

5 January 2011 at 18:24  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Again the curious route Islam (as the religion of peace ?) is taking shows some major differences , A smallish but ancient religion that was there for few hundred years before Islam was formed is targetted , not in theological discussion (which it cannot now win) but via terrorism of innocents , what could be more repugent than a car bomb as famlies celebrate mass , yes children . I mean as herod in his fury.
Even the semi politics of the groups afterwards shows lack of conviction and order.
The use of terrorist cells , which many portray as martrys is clearly a militant export , with no western reasoning .
To make the point further a "liberal" pakistani govener was shot dead for defending a woman convicted of blashphemy , so its clearly dangerous to even question it again showing its militant foundations , it has no respect for democracy , even the Pakistan version of it , which keeps failing to make itself into a country to improve its peoples lives , with spasms of radical miltant whirlpools and crackdowns , sucking infrstructure money into more arms .

Islam may have gone this way to as it were "preserve" its beliefs from the noise of the outside , but in doing so it has enfranchised its warlords and the very forms of goverment that destroy living standards and economies .

There idealogical war is here with us now in europe and other western based cultures , perhaps they are left with re writing hsitory in proof of triumphialism , either way the shame of there missing era of reasoning and enlightenment , is conflicting Islam , as it becomes more unclean the more it dances with its terrorist marytry cells and those funding them.it cannot escape the gravity of its own terrorism and belief .

It isnt winning anything, just sealing its fate as religion convulsing on its own shame. I find it hard to name one Islamic country that even administers a good government for its people , who suffer on in the corruptions , whose choices are bound by unfailing support of an unquestionable belief .

5 January 2011 at 19:08  
Anonymous len said...

Persecuted Christians.

If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you ...' (Jn 15.20)
'All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted' (2 Tim 3.12)

Why persecution? The root cause of persecution is spiritual, not ideological. Satan hates both Jews and Christians.. In fact, he wages war upon both Jew and believer in Christ (Rev 12.17), and since he is still ruler of this world (until Christ comes, Jn 12.31) he uses the world e.g. humanistic law in Europe, or extremists of other faiths, to carry out his aims.

5 January 2011 at 19:15  
Blogger Our Founding Truth said...

The Chair of MINAB, Maulana Shahid Raza, OBE, has expressed his deep concern and condemned the attacks.>

Not a smart idea. Violating Mohammed's command for jihad, and making peace will get you killed. Anwar Sadat comes to mind.

The end result is exactly what the Bible foretold. Israel would be back in the land, and, along with Christians, be persecuted by everyone; England, one of the most egregious culprits, by breaking her word from the Balfour Declaration, and League of Nations Principles of 1922, began her demise from the day she betrayed Israel, and giving away her land, which isn't even Israel's; but God's, to muslims, who want to destroy her.

It will only get worse.

5 January 2011 at 19:15  
Anonymous Voyager said...

a "liberal" pakistani govener was shot dead for defending a woman convicted of blashphemy

Having today listened to a conversation between two younger yet ostensible Muslims in a Northern city discuss the murder, with one declaring "Serves the f@ck@r right for insulting the name of the Prophet Mohammed"

It would appear that those of the Praetorian Guard who murder a man for defending a CHRISTIAN woman accused of blasphemy by a neighbouring peasant are not without adherents in constituencies not far from where a Post-Woolas Election will take place on 13th January

5 January 2011 at 19:15  
Anonymous Voyager said...

began her demise from the day she betrayed Israel

NO ! it was from the decline of Protestant Ascendancy which made The Netherlands, Britain and the USA truly great

5 January 2011 at 19:17  
Anonymous len said...

Those Nations which support Israel carry Gods Blessing and those who oppose Israel suffer as a consequence.
This is a reality, this may not be instantaneous it may be a long slow process but it will happen!.

5 January 2011 at 19:40  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

"The increasing radicalisation of Pakistani society was today laid bare when mainstream religious organisations applauded the murder of Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab, earlier this week and his killer was showered with rose petals as he appeared in court."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2011/01/wednesday_5_january_2011.html

Just like 'home' for some 'up North' Voyager. So much for integration and all the money we throw at it.

5 January 2011 at 20:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a website that provides news and coverage of the plight of the Copts:

http://www.coptsunited.com/

5 January 2011 at 21:01  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Mr Eman (18:07)—Not all Muslims are baying for christian blood. Not all Muslims are indoctrinated into the gospel of hate. (Is it many, as Preacher declares?)

One of the cables released by WikiLeaks quoted a survey of British Muslim university students: 32 per cent said that ‘killing in the name of religion’ was justified. The cable also mentioned that Muslims have the highest disability rates—24 per cent for men and 21 per cent for women. If they will keep marrying their cousins…

Don’t label all Muslims as religious fanatics intent on world domination and ridding the planet of those of different faiths.

Muslims are commanded (Qur’an 8:39) to ‘Make war on them [the unbelievers] until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.’ Most Muslims choose to obey Allah by keeping the maternity hospitals extra busy rather than bombing the kuffar to kingdom come, but Islam’s supremacy is assured either way.

5 January 2011 at 21:20  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace

Slightly off-topic but nonetheless germane in view of the source of your commentary, when will Angela Merkel develop a policy response to what she calls the utter failure of German multiculturalism?

The antics of Islamists with regard to the Copts must be fuelling official frustration within the Federal Republic. Indeed, if German public opinion is being repressed, despite continued provocation, the greater the ultimate reaction.

It would not come as a complete surprise if Germany were to lead the rest of Europe in dealing with the Islamic threat.

5 January 2011 at 22:48  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

len said...
5 January 2011 19:40

"Those Nations which support Israel carry Gods Blessing and those who oppose Israel suffer as a consequence.
This is a reality, this may not be instantaneous it may be a long slow process but it will happen!."

Not really a basis for a sensible political settlement and perhaps reflects a one sided reading of your source.

The history of 'Zionism' and the 'construction' of modern Israel is murky indeed and riddled with subterranean political and economic forces. These forces were not religious and pre-date WW1 and WW2 and their influences were evident in the unfolding of the 'peace' thereafter resulting in the situation we have today.

How to understand God's plan I do not know. Just what the Abrahamic Covenant means today (perpetual? and unconditional?) is open to interpretation.

(Luke 3:8)
"Do not begin to say: We have Abraham for our father, for I say to you God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham."

(Galatians 3:29):
"If you be Christ's, then you are the seed of Abraham"

(Romans 9:6):
"All are not Israelites who are of Israel; neither are all they who are the seed of Abraham, children".

(Matthew 5:9):
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God"

5 January 2011 at 22:56  
Blogger srizals said...

Len,

Israel was built on the blood of the innocents, the beautiful human beings who do not deserve their brutalities, since Dier Yassin, 1948 to the present. They have replicated perfectly the efficient machinery of soulless oppressors of the mankind. Not everyone can do what they did. Not everyone has the stomach for it. Only the wicked can share their triumphant upon helpless babies, children, women and the old ones. Crushed and torn under tyranny of monsters. A bloody victory against the weak is not worth celebrating.

No men should be claiming that they understand God but shamelessly supported such sadistic uncalled brutalities. We are not animals. If we try, we would be worst than animals.

Do not compare the biblical Palestinians, overwhelmingly powerful and worthy adversaries of the Israelites. Today scenario would eventually embarrass any religion that wish to be proven as true by supporting its hideousness. You have been forewarned.

But we can't escape the irony, as then, the Israelites were guided by God against ungrateful tyrants that forgot that they were just mere servants of God. Now?

Read the Bible about them, Len. You'll see what I mean.

6 January 2011 at 07:10  
Blogger srizals said...

Len,

if you see an unarmed helpless baby being killed, not by other babies, would you just stood and nodded, or you will try at least to stop the monster that is ravaging the baby that couldn't even lift his fingers to harm him?

Answer honestly Len. Try to be at least honest to yourself.

"We cannot participate in celebrations that erase both the history and modern-day injustices experienced by Palestinians. We choose instead to work towards justice and self-determination for both peoples".

We will celebrate when Arab and Jew live as equals in a peaceful Middle East".

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/content/remembering-nakba-israels-60th-anniversary

6 January 2011 at 07:28  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

srizals, I strongly disagree with your comments, directed at Len: 'Israel was built on the blood of the innocents' - 'if you see an unarmed helpless baby being killed, not by other babies, would you just stood and nodded, or you will try at least to stop the monster that is ravaging the baby that couldn't even lift his fingers to harm him?'
Facts, and history are not on your side. However, I have a question for you: In broad terms, do you believe Jews have a right to have a homeland to stay safe from discrimination and genocide, and do you support the legal,and democratic state of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people?

6 January 2011 at 11:48  
Blogger Crusader said...

After the 'Battle For Rome', I served in Palestine and was caught in the crossfire.

6 January 2011 at 14:17  
Anonymous Bede said...

There are many good people who are muslims. But they are bad muslims.

There are many bad people who are Christians. But they are bad Christians.

6 January 2011 at 16:10  
Anonymous len said...

Srizels,
I would ask you who owns Israel,Who calls Israel MY land?
I guess the Owner can give Israel to whoever He chooses to.

No one has a right to Israel only God the Creator.

6 January 2011 at 17:23  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

The empty vessel that you wear over your head - do you call it a bucket, or a pail?
It's probably a burqa.

6 January 2011 at 17:27  
Anonymous len said...

There are some very sobering verses in Joel 3:1-2, “For behold in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgement with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land.”
............ (you would need help to misunderstand this!)

6 January 2011 at 19:16  
Blogger srizals said...

Len, for you god is god and can do whatever he wills and pleases because he was god? Compassion and justice do not bind him. He was and is above all, am I right?

If this is your understanding of god, then I'm curious, very, very curious what is your definition of evil!


“When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: ‘My mercy prevails over my wrath.’”
It was related by Muslim (also by al-Bukhari, an-Nasa’i and Ibn Majah).

“‘O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more than a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself.’”
It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah).

6 January 2011 at 23:00  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

srizals

Honestly you're wasting your time friend.

Some believe they understand the Mind of God and His Purposes. They confuse themselves and accept delusions and deceptions.

They forget the Prophets and Revelations offer a message of the past, the future and the present.
There is no unambigous blueprint for His Plan - and no mandate to be blind to injustice or to attempt to force His Hand.

Jesus advised against predicting His Coming. He indicated some of the 'signs of times'.

We are where we are in the Middle East. Israel as a nation state is a fact that cannot now be denied. God knows His Purpose. As men we all need to build Peace and Justice in His Holy Land.

6 January 2011 at 23:14  
Blogger srizals said...

Qâf
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[50:22]
(And unto the evil-doer it is said): Thou wast in heedlessness of this. Now We have removed from thee thy covering, and piercing is thy sight this day.

[50:23]
And (unto the evil-doer) his comrade saith: This is that which I have ready (as testimony).

[50:24]
(And it is said): Do ye twain hurl to hell each rebel ingrate,

[50:25]
Hinderer of good, transgressor, doubter,

[50:26]
Who setteth up another god along with Allah. Do ye twain hurl him to the dreadful doom.

[50:27]
His comrade saith: Our Lord! I did not cause him to rebel, but he was (himself) far gone in error.

[50:28]
He saith: Contend not in My presence, when I had already proffered unto you the warning.

[50:29]
The sentence that cometh from Me cannot be changed, and I am in no wise a tyrant unto the slaves.

The Family of 'Imrân
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[3:103]
And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate. And remember Allah’s favour unto you: How ye were enemies and He made friendship between your hearts so that ye became as brothers by His grace; and (how) ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations unto you, that haply ye may be guided,

[3:104]
And there may spring from you a nation who invite to goodness, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency. Such are they who are successful.

[3:105]
And be ye not as those who separated and disputed after the clear proofs had come unto them. For such there is an awful doom,

[3:106]
On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief ? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved.

[3:107]
And as for those whose faces have been whitened, in the mercy of Allah they dwell for ever.

[3:108]
These are revelations of Allah. We recite them unto thee in truth. Allah willeth no injustice to (His) creatures.

6 January 2011 at 23:23  
Blogger srizals said...

Well, Mrs./Miss Little Black Sambo. Who would wear a green umbrella anyway? I don't wear a burqa since I'm a Malay, moreover, I'm a purely masculine, testosterone driven dominant male!

Kiwi,
Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen. No other state can declare such apartheid arrogance except South Africa. Israel is far, far worse.

Let the people go back to their homes, lands and villages. Compensate them for 60 years of oppression! Bring criminals on both side to justice as they had brought the monsters that inflicted holocaust onto them.

There can be peace in the Holy land when justice is restored. As simple as that. Justice is after all what we cherished so much as civilised civilisation right? Right?

What is God and order of civilisation without justice? The Khmer Rouge?
What say you Kiwi?

Yes, time is precious Mr. Eman, what more for an alias like me. It's a delicate balance that I have to master. But it's life. We have to do what we must. If not it would eat us up from the inside. It won't have a good effect on our soul and self.

The Declining Day
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful:
[103:1]
By Time!

[103:2]
Verily man is in [a state of] loss,

[103:3]
except those who believe, and perform righteous deeds, and enjoin one another to [follow] the truth, and enjoin one another to patience.

7 January 2011 at 00:06  
Anonymous len said...

Srizels,
God has revealed His word to man,He gave us the Bible.
Don`t take my word for anything, read the Bible and compare it with what I say!
Only don`t use a catholic bible, catholic traditions, or anything the Pope says that contradict the Bible.
When the dead seas scrolls were found they confirmed the Bible.

Islam is based on scraps of truth mixed with loads of made up stories much like Catholicism and if you are quoting from either it will make no sense!.

As I have said(quite a few times)get a Bible or read online) and find the Truth for yourself).

Don`t accept what I say or anyone says unless it lines up with the Bible(Non Catholic version)

7 January 2011 at 08:25  
Blogger srizals said...

Could you give the links to the non-Catholic Bible Len?

You haven't answered my question regarding our issue of the day. In case we should forget about them one day and compelled to repeat them in our next encounter.

If god can do anything he pleases without any restrictions or rules, how does that differ from the evil ones, who also have the same rules governing them? The above the law kind of rule, I mean. Care to share?

If being lawless is god's prerogative, what would be the prerogative of the wicked? The freedom to kill and plunder?
Supported by those who are ridden with guilt of someone else's sin? You must answer it clearly Len, the observant atheists/agnostics might be wondering about God.

7 January 2011 at 12:44  
Blogger srizals said...

"If the recovery of Jerusalem for The Chosen requires an Armageddon, so be it. That too is part of God’s plan. Hagee should know. He claims a direct line to Yahweh. Just ask him.
Even a nuclear holocaust would fit God’s Plan. Why? An Apocalypse would assure the reappearance of a long-dead prophet.
This End Days prophecy is routinely foretold on the public airwaves by this tax-subsidized televangelist. For The Faithful, he offers an inspiration that has a twisted logic behind it.
When The Chosen recover their God-Given real estate, God will smite all those who refuse to join Hagee’s flock. Or some Christian affiliate thereof.
And, yes, that includes The Chosen. Convert or die. That’s the Hagee-inspired, tax-subsidized version of Christianity.
Such smiting does not qualify as a Holocaust. Why? Because those smitten are only The Chosen who refuse to choose a conversion to this version of a Loving God.
By then Hagee’s True Believers will be safely enfolded in the post-Rapture embrace of a God that prefers Christians Above All".
- Jeff Gates
http://criminalstate.com/2010/05/who-wants-this-american-dead/

This question also remained in doubt. What would happen to the Chosen people if they refused Jesus, according to you, Len? Are your views any different from most Christians?

7 January 2011 at 13:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr srizals, you're obviously a closet fan of the Qur'an based Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew (Article 7). As for your assertion that, "Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen", exposes your ignorance for all to see.
Mr srizals, a short history lesson - Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim. In 135 AD it was the occupying Romans under Emperor Hadrian, who arbitrarily changed the name of Judea to Palestine, as part of their effort to suppress the indigenous Jews. Nevertheless, Jerusalem was, and still remains the recognised capital of the Jewish people.
Palestine never has been a country, never at any time, ever. In 1920, after the collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the region of Palestine was legally designated a League of Nations Mandate, to be governed by Britain, where Jews and itinerant Arabs lived side by side, most often not in harmony, primarily due to religiously inspired Arab aggression. Then in 1922, two thirds of the Palestine Mandate was broken off by the British to become an exclusively Arab (Palestinian?) country, called Tran Jordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining one third land area, it was proposed establishing one Jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs promptly rejected. The Arabs dismissed the notion of any Jewish state, of any size. Furthermore, in 1948, after militarily attacking the fledgling state of Israel; losing antagonists, Jordan and Egypt, who between 1948 and 1967 occupied the West Bank and Gaza, respectively, never offered to surrender those lands to form an independent Palestinian state. No Palestinian organisation ever sought an independent state. No Arab country had even suggested its existence. An Arab Palestine has never been the name of any nation or state. 'Palestine' was a geographical term used only to identify administrative boundaries within larger empires, nothing more.
And since you have the temerity to mention “apartheid”, it has been sixty years since 850,000 Jews were victims of "ethnic cleansing" in 10 Arab lands, where some Jewish communities had existed for 2,500 years. The number of Jewish refugees expelled from Arab lands exceeds Arab refugees from Israel by more than 100,000. Yet, the claims of these forgotten refugees, who were never compensated for their loss of land, homes, businesses and personal property, are rarely even mentioned.
Mr srizals, in summary, The ONLY time the area has been an independent entity was as a Jewish state. But don't let facts deter you in your pathetic hate fest. Are you aware of the racist apartheid conditions suffered by Jews and other minorities in most Islamic lands? Do you care? Please grow up and read some history.

7 January 2011 at 14:06  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Kiwi—I’ve had the same problem on this thread of posts appearing and then disappearing, or not appearing at all. Time for His Grace to sprinkle some holy water on Blogger.

7 January 2011 at 14:16  
Blogger srizals said...

Len, Kiwi, the Arabic Jews knew Allah. Maybe you should check out the "hostility" the Arabs had for Jews in this link.

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/iraq-was-heaven-says-the-last-jew-in-iraq-1.html

Should we forget about the original hostility that made them run to Palestine?

7 January 2011 at 18:27  
Blogger Brenda kay Winters said...

I was told by Muslim man that four Christian churches would be attacked soon-in Germany, Egypt and two unnamed Countries-please be aware.I am Christian Jew. I believe God does not like the shedding of innocent blood-no matter who you are.I reported this but they may not listen to me.

7 January 2011 at 20:14  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

srizals

I do not know what is in your heart and I offer these observations in sincerity and truth.

You have given names of God - in Islam there are 99 names.

Behind each name a series of rituals and recitals are given to obtain earthly wealth, earthly honour, earthly revenge and earthly glory.

This not the way of God - read the Temptations of Jesus in the desert when Satan offered Him such things.
His reply: "Get thee behind me Satan."

The names themselves are suggestive of the attributes of God. The outcome of recitals and rituals are not His way.

Satan is the great deceiver who knows scripture and seeks to pervert it to his own ends by ensnaring men into the worship of himself.

AL-MALIK
The Sovereign
"If read abundantly each day After Zawaal, the reader will be given abundant wealth... Insha-Allah"

AL-AZIZ
The Mighty
"Anyone who say this name 40 times each day for forty days. Allah will grant him honour and self-sufficiency. If read 41 times daily with constancy, the reades will become mighty if he is treated with dishonour."

AL-JABBÂR
The Over Powering Lord
"Anyone who says this Ism 226 times each morning and each evening will be safeguarded against the oppression to tyrants and depots. If anyone engraves it on a silver ring and wears it. His awe and magnificence will become inborn in the heart of people... Insha-Allah."

AL-MUTAKABBIR
The Self-Glorious
"The constant reciter of this beautiful name will be granted honour and greatness. If read continually before any task, it will be accomplished... Insha-Allah."

AL-GHAFFÂR
Exceedingly Forgiving
"Anyone who say this name 40 times each day for forty days. Allah will grant him honour and self-suffiiciency. If read 41times daily with constancy, the reader will become self-sufficient and will attain honour if he treated with dishonour."

In the language of Muhammed there are but three true of God:

Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) - God the Father,
Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) - God the Son,
Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس)- God the Holy Spirit

8 January 2011 at 00:07  
Blogger srizals said...

It's how we know and understand God, Mr Eman. Man is a creature needed of reminder each day to keep him going forward and stay motivated. The thoughts of his Creator keep his mind thinking, which is good for neurons, without being overwhelmed by fears, pleasures and doubts.

And repetition is the best way to achieve this and faith grows in this way. We understand all the pain and pleasure in this life by understanding God. One way to understand Him is of course, through His beautiful names.

The zikr keeps the mind focus in dealing with our temptations, loses, pains, happiness and sadness. It keeps the mind focus on earthly matters without breaking the divine connection between creatures and their Creator, through the remembrance of His beautiful names. Either he or she is granted help or not, got his or her wish or not, he or she would learn to understand and accept the outcome of his or her problem or life issues. As all is under the knowledge of God, Al Alim, The All-Knowing.

In this way, man is 'self-prohibited' from despair and would not easily lose hope when the going get toughs, especially when it has gone completely hideous and revolting. For this Muslims would remember, Ar Rahim, The All-Merciful.

For example, if all is lost for a Muslim. If he is captured by his cruel enemies, being tortured and humiliated, where do you think his mind would go to leave his body to his tormentors?

By remembering God, man would remained almost neutral in receiving the abundance of pleasures in this life by not being proud and arrogant, foremost, when he needed God the most, in dire times, especially when he had lost all his strength, wealth and greatness on the death bed.

8 January 2011 at 07:13  
Blogger srizals said...

Man must not forget this world for the Hereafter. Man is made up for both existence, the world as a temporary place for him to face his test of worthiness and a permanent place where he is granted God's mercy in full, without measure, for having successfully proven himself, in keenness of choosing good over evil, no matter the temptations and degrees of hardships. And for that he would remember, Ash Shakur, The Appreciative that would not let any good deeds in vain.

Man is well-known to do anything to get his wish fulfilled. Consequences would be a good mechanism of self-control don't you think so. That is why even in this life, we have laws and punishments for the law-breaker. It's only natural. So he is reminded by God's name, Al Hasib, The Reckoner.

Most importantly, the rituals are man's attempt to live his life with confidence. Some just recite them in their heart for the pleasure of remembering their God, personally in the private chambers of their heart. It doesn't really matter how many they can recite or not. The remembrance is not for God's benefit, it is for our own self-assurance in dealing with this life before death.

How do you remember God, Mr. Eman? Are there any system or rituals? We are living a very busy life nowadays, we might get carried away in our earthly affairs.

8 January 2011 at 07:14  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

srizals said...
8 January 2011 07:13

I completely agree with your statements above about being mindful of God and on the importance of relying on Him at all times.

In all sincerity I offer you this prayer taught mankind by Jesus Christ:

Abanal-ladhee fees samawat,
li-yataqaddass ismoka,
liyati malakutuka litakon mashee atoka kama fees-sama- kadhaleka ala laard.
A'tina khobzana kafafa yawmina, waghfer lana khata-yana kama nahno naghfiro liman asa-a ilayna, wa la todkhilna feet-tajareb; laken najjina min ash-shirreer.
Amin.

This sublime prayer, so simple, yet so complex, is sufficient for all need.

I also reoffer the three names of God representing, in our limited human way, the mystery of Him.

Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) - God the Father,
Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) - God the Son,
Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس)- God the Holy Spirit

Allah Akbar,
"God is Most Great."
Too great to be perceived by the senses and too deep to be understood by the intellect.
Too great to be known other than Him.
Only God knows God.

I also reoffer the three names of God as representing, in our limited human way, the mystery of Him revealed by His Son and Holy Spirit:

Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) - God the Father,
Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) - God the Son,
Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس)- God the Holy Spirit


הללו יה
Alleluia
Al-Ḥamdu Lillāh
الحمد لله

8 January 2011 at 09:15  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

srizals said...
8 January 2011 09:15

I completely agree with your statements above about being mindful of God and on the importance of relying on Him at all times.

I completely disagree with your remarks to Kingofetc. Leave him be and rise above his insults. It's unfortunate an anagram of your name results in this outcome. Insensitive of him, at best, deliberately provocative at worse, but not a violent threat on your honour.

In case you overlooked my ealier blog I will repeat it for you once more.

In all sincerity I offer you this prayer taught mankind by Jesus Christ:

"Abanal-ladhee fees samawat,
li-yataqaddass ismoka,
liyati malakutuka litakon mashee atoka kama fees-sama- kadhaleka ala laard.
A'tina khobzana kafafa yawmina, waghfer lana khata-yana kama nahno naghfiro liman asa-a ilayna, wa la todkhilna feet-tajareb; laken najjina min ash-shirreer.
Amin."

This sublime prayer, so simple, yet so complex, is sufficient for all need.

I also reoffer the three names of God representing, in our limited human way, the mystery of Him.

Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) - God the Father,
Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) - God the Son,
Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس)- God the Holy Spirit

Allah Akbar,
"God is Most Great."
Too great to be perceived by the senses and too deep to be understood by the intellect.
Too great to be known other than Him.
Only God knows God.

I also reoffer the three names of God as representing, in our limited human way, the mystery of Him revealed by His Son and Holy Spirit:

Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) - God the Father,
Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) - God the Son,
Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس)- God the Holy Spirit


הללו יה
Alleluia
Al-Ḥamdu Lillāh
الحمد لله

Mystery Man

8 January 2011 at 13:40  
Blogger srizals said...

But what more do we have than our honour, Mr Eman? But for you, I'll let Mr. Capitalization off the hook and save his "avoiding direct answer technique" from shame. If it's the good old days, we would have to duel it out Mr. Capitalization. How lucky you are. Think about that before uttering your pertinent observation.

I'm glad we can reach a conclusion about Allah, Mr Eman. As for other attributes, we'll discuss it through from time to time. At least those Westernised Christians would think before uttering ideas about Allah. Not all can be done in a day. Save some for tomorrow.

I've always enabled the follow-up comments sent via e-mail. It won't matter if you delete your deceitful posts or not, Mr. K, no matter how fast you are.

I already have them when you click the publish button. And you don't have a blog. It was just a profile page. Start writing a real blog and share your thoughts with the world. It would be better for you. Unless you are afraid of something that is.

8 January 2011 at 15:24  
Blogger srizals said...

Updates on the Christmas of the Copts. Who would be willing to die for them? TV Evangelists?

"Egypt’s Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as “human shields”
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/01/egypts-muslims-attend-coptic-christmas-mass-serving-as-human-shields/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+loonwatch+%28loonwatch.com%29

8 January 2011 at 16:25  
Blogger Mr Eman said...

srizals

Don't back off MrHighetc for me - do it for you and for God.

We have God's love! Unconditional. We just need to open our hearts and free our minds from falsities.

"Love one another as I have loved you."

8 January 2011 at 16:41  
Blogger srizals said...

True, ok, Mr. Capitalization, you're free to post and I'll act like nothing peculiar ever happened. I won't bring it up. Conditionally of course. I would even protect you from the English Viking. Don’t be afraid. He's not that barbaric, at times, of course. But all Norsemen are or were like that, yes?

8 January 2011 at 16:50  
Blogger srizals said...

To help you out on proper capitalization technique,

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/capital.asp

There you go. Start anew.

8 January 2011 at 16:53  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Mr.Eman @ 16:41

I quote from another of your postings elsewhere:

''I was delivered by a stork to my parents...''

Forgive me, I hadn't realised that you'd meant it!

8 January 2011 at 17:41  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

srizals writes; "I've always enabled the follow-up comments sent via e-mail. It won't matter if you delete your deceitful posts or not, Mr. K, no matter how fast you are."
No deceit intended Mr S, gave up after three attempts to post rebuttal, it was late and I was tired. Definitely no deletion by me, I suspect the system does not like long posts. I'll try again, this time in two halves - hope this will make you feel better.

9 January 2011 at 09:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr srizals, you’re obviously a closet fan of the Qur’an based Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew (Article 7). As for your assertion that, “Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen”, exposes your ignorance for all to see.
Mr srizals, a short history lesson - Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim. In 135 AD it was the occupying Romans under Emperor Hadrian, who arbitrarily changed the name of Judea to Palestine, as part of their effort to suppress the indigenous Jews. Nevertheless, Jerusalem was, and still remains the recognised capital of the Jewish people.
Palestine never has been a country, never at any time, ever. In 1920, after the collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the region of Palestine was designated a League of Nations Mandate, to be legally governed by Britain, where Jews and itinerant Arabs lived side by side, most often not in harmony, primarily due to religiously inspired Arab aggression. Then in 1922, two thirds of the Palestine Mandate was broken off by the British to become an exclusively Arab (Palestinian?) country, called Tran Jordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining one third, proposed establishing one Jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. The Arabs rejected the notion of any Jewish state, of any size.
To be continued...

9 January 2011 at 09:32  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

@ srizals...
Furthermore, in 1948, after militarily attacking the fledgling state of Israel; Jordan and Egypt, who between 1948 and 1967 occupied the West Bank and Gaza, respectively, never offered to surrender those lands to form an independent Palestinian state. No Palestinian organisation ever sought an independent state. No Arab country had even suggested its existence. An Arab Palestine has never been the name of any nation or state. 'Palestine' was a geographical term used only to identify administrative boundaries within larger empires, nothing more.
And since you have the temerity to mention "apartheid", it has been sixty years since 850,000 Jews were victims of "ethnic cleansing" in 10 Arab lands, where some Jewish communities had existed for 2,500 years. The number of Jewish refugees expelled from Arab lands exceeds Arab refugees from Israel by more than 100,000. Yet, the claims of these forgotten refugees, who were never compensated for their loss of land, homes, businesses and personal property, are rarely even mentioned.
Mr srizals, in summary, The ONLY time the area has been an independent entity was as a Jewish state. But don't let facts deter you in your pathetic hate fest. Are you aware of the racist apartheid conditions suffered by Jews and other minorities in most Islamic lands? Do you care? Please grow up and read some history.

9 January 2011 at 09:36  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Part One:

Mr srizals, you're obviously a closet fan of the Qur'an based Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew (Article 7). As for your assertion that, "Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen", exposes your ignorance for all to see.
Mr srizals, a short history lesson - Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim. In 135 AD it was the occupying Romans under Emperor Hadrian, who arbitrarily changed the name of Judea to Palestine, as part of their effort to suppress the indigenous Jews. Nevertheless, Jerusalem was, and still remains the recognised capital of the Jewish people.
Palestine never has been a country, never at any time, ever. In 1920, after the collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the region of Palestine was designated a League of Nations Mandate, to be legally governed by Britain, where Jews and itinerant Arabs lived side by side, most often not in harmony, primarily due to religiously inspired Arab aggression. Then in 1922, two thirds of the Palestine Mandate was broken off by the British to become an exclusively Arab (Palestinian?) country, called Tran Jordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining one third, proposed establishing one Jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. The Arabs rejected the notion of any Jewish state, of any size.

9 January 2011 at 09:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr eman said 8 January 2011 16:41

srizals

Don't back off MrHighetc for me - do it for you and for God.(Ha Ha Ha)

We have God's love!(You certainly do but which god) Unconditional.(With a few caveats perhaps?) We just need to open our hearts and free our minds from falsities.(Sounds like you have the stake, the rope and a pile of fagots and all that's missing is a lucifer?)

"Love one another as I have loved you." (Thanks for your kinda LUV?)/
Truly scared to thing what you would say IF you hated me??

You have brought tears of laughter to my eyes!!!

9 January 2011 at 22:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Mr eman said 8 January 2011 16:41
9 January 2011 22:41

Be ashamed of yourself, kneel and pray for forgiveness for this hate filled post.

9 January 2011 at 22:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9 January 2011 22:46

Stop it or I will wee myself with laughter.

YKWIA

9 January 2011 at 22:51  
Anonymous AtilaTheHun said...

A lunatic is on the loose on this blog, maybe he still think that he's the king with facy see-through craziness.

10 January 2011 at 04:10  
Blogger srizals said...

Kiwi, since you used biblical time and history to support your arguments, allow me to present my case using your method.

1st. The Jews nowadays are said to be distant descendants of the Israelis who were brought to the land of Canaan from Egypt. They were slaves of the Pharaohs and fled from their masters without consent or buying their freedom legally then. As slaves, they have no right of owning anything and their belongings actually belongs to their masters. Since the distant descendants of the Pharaohs are Egyptians, with the evidence of pyramids and mummies,they have no right whatsoever of claiming the land of Judea as their own! It belongs to the current Egyptians by biblical rights and slavery laws up to before the US civil war I think. What say you, Kiwi?

2nd. I don't see any proof that the Canaanites waived their birth rights on the lands of Canaan, so the Palestinians as distant descendants of them, still have this 'birth and once governed the land' right, before the Israelis crossed the Red Sea and subdued them and became their leaders.

3rd. How many members were in the so-called League of Nations? How could they determine the fate of the piece of land in dispute? Shouldn't democracy be the rule of the day? Let say, the majority in Palestine at that time? Let's vote in the United Nations, without undemocratic veto power, who do you think they would favour as the rightful owner of Palestine? Shall we compare the nations acknowledging Israel and Palestine nowadays?

4th. The Hamas 7th charter, please quote it here with links. I can't find it to comment about it. I won't comment on something I do not have the knowledge of. Thanks.

5th. Almost all modern day nations nowadays were never even a country just like Palestine, Mr. Kiwi. The Great Britain was no exception either. The fleeing Jews from Christian lands cut them off to it, remember, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the support of armaments from the US and the stupidity of the UK, then. Sorry.

10 January 2011 at 11:01  
Blogger srizals said...

Mr. Kiwi,

6th. a. The Kingdom of Israel was the kingdom proclaimed by the Israelite nation around 1030 B.C.E. - 1020 B.C.E., enduring until it fell to the Assyrian empire in 722 B.C.E. , how long would that be Mr. Kiwi?

b. 722-586 BC. The First Dispersion, the Diaspora. Jews are taken as slaves, or flee to Egypt Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.

c. 537 BC. Cyrus allows Shesbazzar, a prince from the tribe of Judah, to bring Babylonian Jews back to Jerusalem.

c. The Roman Empire destroyed the Temple about 69AD,renamed the country Palestine (rooted from Philistines), and the Diaspora began. Between that date and 1948, there was no Jewish State.

7th. Could you give the timeline of the claim of 3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites?

10 January 2011 at 12:35  
Blogger srizals said...

Come on Kiwi, don't you go extinct on me now. I love Kiwi bird you know.

11 January 2011 at 09:43  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Mr srizals, apologies, I've been busy earning a living.
Part 1
I refuse to be sidetracked by irrelevancies, and most definitely won't dissect your post line by line, however must challenge item 7 in particular - I did not claim '3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites.' What I actually said was, "Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim."
Mr srizals, we can cut to the chase here; there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither has there been any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage to support such claims. The present-day 'Palestinians' are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. Mostly they are immigrants; they have their own Arab states from where they came into the land of Israel, in large numbers, looking for work, about one century ago to contrast resurgent Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth.

12 January 2011 at 11:21  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Part 2
Since you asked for my 'timeline', here it is:
1. Historical facts concerning nationhood and Jerusalem: Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two whole decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.
Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 750,000. The number of Jewish refugees evicted from Arab lands is estimated to be 850.000
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100 million refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Why is this?
Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the US state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the so-called Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations have initiated five wars and lost them all - Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. Hamas, and the PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given Gaza to the Palestinians, and autonomy to most of the ‘West Bank’, under the Palestinian Authority.
15. The West Bank, when under Jordanian rule: Jewish holy sites were desecrated, and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Moslem and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. Biased UN - The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 have been directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 have been directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. Why?
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. Why?
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Why?

12 January 2011 at 11:23  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Part 2
Since you asked for my 'timeline', here it is:
1. Historical facts concerning nationhood and Jerusalem: Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two whole decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.
Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

12 January 2011 at 11:25  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

part 3
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 750,000. The number of Jewish refugees evicted from Arab lands is estimated to be 850.000
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100 million refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Why is this?
Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the US state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the so-called Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations have initiated five wars and lost them all - Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. Hamas, and the PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given Gaza to the Palestinians, and autonomy to most of the ‘West Bank’, under the Palestinian Authority.
15. The West Bank, when under Jordanian rule: Jewish holy sites were desecrated, and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Moslem and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. Biased UN - The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 have been directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 have been directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. Why?
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. Why?
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Why?

12 January 2011 at 11:31  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Kiwi above:

Thank you for that; you've got it just about covered, ta.

12 January 2011 at 18:33  
Blogger srizals said...

Kiwi,
1. Your lengthy numbered explanation tries to outlaw the legitimacy of the native Arabs that were forced to flee in the fear of death, leaving their possessions, by using biblical proof. I used it too, but you simply brush it aside. Fine, now let see the birth of Israel. 1948, The forced death march of Palestinians from their homes by Jewish militia cleared the way for incoming Jewish refugees from the entire world.

True or false, Kiwi?

2. If the US, Australian and many more white citizens were banished by the natives of the countries now they are ruling, according to their thousand of years right, would Britain and Europe accept them back? The Palestinian Arabs are Palestinian! It's not the Arabs didn't want to absorb them, they want to return to their rightful home! Let say, I chased you away from your home after killing your siblings, and almost everyone you know since my great, great, great, great (30x more) ancestors were said to have been promised the land after being banish twice, unconditionally and they themselves came from Egypt, would you comply? Would you ask them to build their home beside yours or on top of yours, after it was demolished and you, running for your lives with nothing except the clothes you wore?

5. The destruction of a state is not the destruction of human lives, can't you get a simple statement like that? They have Israel for the sufferings and humiliations inflicted on them. The Muslims in the West are not a non-living illegal country, and yet?

3. The UN was silent since the Jews were no law abiding citizen of the world/UN anyway. What's the point? Maybe when they start to behave like one, the UN would be supportive of them.

15 January 2011 at 02:05  
Blogger srizals said...

5. One more thing, is it okay for your faith that in order to fulfill a prophecy, innocent lives are to be taken, with oppression and tyranny be the rule of the day? Should babies, children and the helpless be killed to fulfill god's word? Isn't blatant tyranny considered to be whatever is against good, which from it, we have 'God' in the English language?

Thanks Kiwi.

15 January 2011 at 03:25  

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