Friday, January 21, 2011

Tony Blair on Islamic Extremism



He may be a charlatan, a liar, a hypocrite, a dissembler, a fraud and even a war criminal.

His Grace does not know: he is content now to leave Tony Blair to the Judgement of the Almighty.

But on the issue of 'Islamic extremism', as he expounded the threat today at the Chilcot Inquiry, he is absolutely, undeniably and irrefutably right.

Baroness Warsi may demur (sometimes).

But, as the former prime minister says of the extremists, "...they disagree fundamentally with our way of life... At some point we've got to get our head out of the sand and understand..."

62 Comments:

Blogger English Viking said...

Said the man that let 2 million muslims into our country, and criminalised anyone who expressed an objection.

I hope he falls into the pit which he has digged.

21 January 2011 at 23:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

BTW, Your Grace,

You forgot 'murderer' in your opening statement.

Goodness knows how may Iraqis.

And not a few UK troops, either.

Or just Dr David Kelly, if you prefer.

As the father of dead British soldier once said to him, after refusing to shake his hand (he should have shook his neck) - 'You have (my son's) blood on your hands'.

And so he does.

21 January 2011 at 23:52  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

Appeasement and multiculturalism has failed. The spread of Islam must be halted. No more mosques, minarets, special schools, translators or other privileges regarding the veil and such. If assimilation is not acceptable Muslims cannot expect to be welcomed. Why should we tolerate an ideology that expects favours while criticising our way of life and working to destroy it? There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim because at the heart of their religious ideology there is a desire to see the end of us.
http://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/

22 January 2011 at 00:09  
Blogger Owl said...

Does Blair think he has found the wave to ride on?

I can almost picture him sniffing the wind to see which way the wind's blowing before deciding which way to run.

Now he is telling us what we have known for ages. Well thanks Tony, but er, why did he help create the problem in the first place? Is he such a moron that he has only figured this out now?

Of course not, it's just that the agenda has moved on and, as Atlas S. so rightly pointed out, divide and rule is on the menu again. This should also keep our minds off what is really happening and our Tony is a big part of it. A good crisis keeps the sheep occupied.

What a transparent hypocrite.

22 January 2011 at 00:13  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Islam has always disagreed fundamentally with the Christian, and the Western, way of life; it was to correct the errors of Judaism and Christianity that Allah founded Islam.

For the last three hundred years (since its defeat at Vienna), Islam has not troubled the West because it was demoralized, it was confined to its own lands and it was poverty stricken. Times have changed. Thanks to oil wealth and a burgeoning, young following, Islam is full of confidence, and, thanks to globalization, it has moved out of its own lands into the West.

Now that Islam is living among us, we shall have no respite from it. If we do not have the heart, or the guts, to expel Muslims from Britain and Europe then I do not see how our way of life can survive.

See Islam for the enemy that it is, expel Muslims, isolate the Muslim world, deny it our inventions and technology, and we may yet send Allah packing once again.

22 January 2011 at 00:33  
Blogger English Viking said...

Johnny R, Owl, A.B.

You are all completely correct.

If it carries on like this for just a couple more decades, just 20 years, 2000 years and more will be nothing more than dust.

22 January 2011 at 00:54  
Blogger srizals said...

Well, he did say he was sorry for the death of so many, I'm not sure if he's willing to die and shed his own blood for all the lives that perished because of him. And I didn't catch any compensation mentioned for the destructions and deaths in the Iraq Inquiry. But once a liar, always a liar. Unless other liars would accept his lying habits, as a fundamental truth. As they say, old habits die hard.

After the gates of Vienna, the White Christian Europeans killed each other Johnny, don't forget it. They might repeat history again, if Muslims were banished like previously. But, it's your call.

22 January 2011 at 06:28  
Blogger srizals said...

Okay, okay, I will stop criticising your way of life Ancient Briton, you can proceed with your self-culling/abortion culture, enjoying unlimited sex (with STDs to entertain you, while you're dying), being drunk, killing and destroying whatever you pleased (just like Blair), manipulating the world's economy and last but not least, holy gay marriages! Go on, have a ball. And could all the priests abstain from marriages like Jesus, if possible, all Christians too. Jesus never got married and had children, why should you? You're following Christ, right? Right?

22 January 2011 at 06:43  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Of course, Tony Blair is not really breaking new ground in his remarks, as Owl says. It was indeed the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat in all respects, who first broke cover on the utter failure of Multiculturalism in Europe,

One can see the ground being laid for the re-homogenisation of Europe, by the Germans at least. They've got experience in the field and a reputation for efficiency.

I disagree with JR that all Muslims should be expelled. They should first be given a chance to renounce Islam and the Islamic way of life. This worked in Spain from 1492 onwards.

Muslim internet posters boast that Islam is all about power, something Christians and Christianity do not understand. Muslims in that frame of mind need to understand that the British state will not tolerate a state within the state, living perhaps under sharia as a semi-autonomous Islamic republic. In particular, Baroness Warsi needs to understand that she is not a cabinet minister in order to become the tribal chieftain of a Muslim political entity or bloc. One can be forgiven for drawing that conclusion about her motives. Indeed, the fact that she gave the Sternberg lecture without clearing its content with the British cabinet suggest that Sayeeda does not understand this point at all. Her position as Co-Chairman of the Conservative Party should be reviewed as it is possibly untenable.

Given Warsi's knowledge of the inner workings of the British system she could be a dangerous enemy. Dave should keep her inside the tent but grounded.

22 January 2011 at 07:13  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

srizals, it will not surprise you to read that what you describe is not my way of life nor is it the way of life of anyone I know. It is as you must know, lying in accordance with the Muslim faith to further its cause.

I have however read many reports (as you can simply by 'Googling') of the treatment of women as inferior in Islam, sex trading of non-Muslim children, forced marriages including young children and child consummation, killing baby girls, burying girls alive in honour killings, killing Christians and Jews for believing other than Islam, burning churches, etc, etc, etc, all in the name of religion. A religion you seek to protect by putting it beyond criticism while feeling free to criticise others. Do you wonder you are getting a bad press!

22 January 2011 at 07:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

srizals. Just consider the possiblity that both ways of life could be undesirable. Both are decadent, both are destructive and both should be criticised.

Like you, I believe that there is a great deal wrong with our current mores and would be willing to debate this with anyone, but it so happens this particular thread is discussing Islam and its disastrous effect on western values. Stop throwing out red herrings.

22 January 2011 at 08:39  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Tony Blairs way of life is not our way, he despises anything resilient enough to his way being administered upon us all.

To that end the muslim woman who stabbed Stephen Timms and snubbed our corrupt courts gets my utmost respect, if only she could have gotten to this Blair arsehole.

22 January 2011 at 09:39  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Blair? Isn't he the idiot who failed to pull his head out of his own backside over uncontrolled illegal immigration? And isn't he also the one who, following the Islamic extremist attrocities, invited the MCB to ride shotgun onboard his unspeakable, no-wheels, enforced multi-culti wagon? That's the same MCB who sanctions the killing of British soldiers and who promotes the adoption of barbaric shari'a law into the British legal system.

Why the sudden wailing and gnashing of teeth years after this braindead, spavined nag bolted? Why sound off against his own, statute driven and nationally inflicted apologists creed? Sounds like he's using the glaring truth as a desperate means of self preservation to me. He's finally realised that his hubris kicked off a sh*tstorm of unintended consequences but he isn't going to admit it because, you see, it isn't his fault. It's never his fault. It's stomach churning watching him spin and obfuscate in this way like the prevaricating, gutless bastard he's shown himself to be.

Blair resides in a bottomless pit of political ordure located deep in the bowels of Mons Bullsh*t. People were branded racists for daring to suggest that Islam is a religion of death and intolerance. Some even have a criminal record for defending what ought to have been the bleeding obvious. And yet here the weapons grade hypocrite is, mouthing the same damn thing we were told was untrue and discriminatory.

The only thing absolute, undeniable and irrefutable about Blair is that he's a despicable c***! That also goes for the rest of our scumbag political "elit".

/rant

22 January 2011 at 10:34  
Blogger Derek said...

What Blair says about Islam is correct. But for someone who had to take legal advice before attending the Chilcot enquiry to be assured he would not be arrested at the door, says much else about this man. He is indeed seeing which way the wind blows, and sets his sails accordingly. He's a liar, and by association with Bush and the war on Iraq, a mass murderer. He has seen the threat, and realises it is more than a threat to the West (and has been for centuries), it is also his 'get out of jail' card. He speaks as he has always done, in short jerks with lots of hand movements. It is indicative of a devious sentiment.

22 January 2011 at 10:44  
Blogger srizals said...

Let me see, I'm a Muslim and never ever did all the things that you listed down Ancient Briton, so, what does that makes me? Not to mention hundreds of millions more. Bluedog, you said you knew how it was like being a huguenot, now you are advocating the return of the Spanish inquisition? Haven't you gentlemen had enough blood on your hands?

I know anon@08:39, I'm not throwing red herrings here, I'm just reminding about the wonderful world of overgeneralising sensation. It's fun when it is applied to the other side. It won't be when we are included in things we do not approve ourselves. What more when the accuser had done much more hideous things than the accused!

Anon, you claimed 'Islam and its disastrous effect on western values.' Could you list them down and gave the examples? What if I list down the disastrous effect of the Western world/Christianity upon the world? How do you think you're going to feel?
If an Iraqi was here, I think he could list down more on Christianity, Great Britain and the US, hopefully not the whole West. But, we are entitled to what we think. Care to share your thoughts, Anon? As for Great Britain, I knew its disastrous effect during the good old colonial days. Is history amending itself by turning things upside down to correct its past mistake?

I have a better idea. Start treating the Muslims as the Europe had done to the Jews. Or better, how it dealt with the pagans! In that way, people will see who they really are, the next time they look at themselves in the mirror. Should we forget our past?

22 January 2011 at 11:58  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Srizals, you're flogging a dead horse. If the sole solution to decadent Western culture is the violent, bigotted and misogynistic straightjacket of Islam then long live Western decadent culture.

22 January 2011 at 12:16  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

srizals I am pleased to read that you "never ever did all the things" I listed. I didn't suggest that you were guilty but you clearly stated at 06.43am that my life style as a Christian was as you described.

But don't worry, many of the commentators here are so intent on shooting Tony Blair the messenger that they lose sight of the message. Even Giles Fraser, a senior cleric in the Church of England writing in today's Guardian is busy trying to silence critics of Islam excesses referring to us as bigots and racists. What you must understand is that it is not a dislike of Muslims but the root of the Islamic faith that people fear.

Dwelling on the past is counter-productive. We all need to look to the future, a future that is secure for all. In the unlikely event that Islam will give up its goal of world domination you should not expect people just to sit back and let it happen.

As a good Muslim, what are you doing about women's rights and other discrimination against non-Muslims?

22 January 2011 at 12:35  
Blogger srizals said...

Agree, long live Western decadent culture! Hope the dead horse won't become one of the living dead.

22 January 2011 at 12:38  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (6:28)—White Christian Europeans had been killing each other long before Vienna; perhaps it was their experience of battle that saved the day for Christendom. Sunni and Shi’a Muslims kill each other, too. It’s the way of the world.

@ srizals (11:58)—If Britain had not colonized Malaya (as it then was), one of the other European powers would have done so. Compare Britain’s record as a colonial power with theirs and see how much worse colonial rule could have been.

22 January 2011 at 13:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is the only thing Tony Blair has ever said with which I agree.

We should resist the imposition of sharia with all our might - and it's a pity the Church doesn't understand or articulate this.

Our culture and way of life is based on Judaeo-Christian principles. Frankly, if you don't like this then you may like to return from whence you came.

22 January 2011 at 14:36  
Blogger Gnostic said...

srizals, since the dead horse belongs to you I expect that you will remove it at your earliest convenience before the flies become a problem. If it's the undead that concerns you perhaps you'd be so kind as to drop the carcase off in the House of Commons lobby? The smell of putrefaction might clear the building of all the ghouls infesting the place. ;-)

22 January 2011 at 14:38  
Anonymous len said...

At some point we've got to get our head out of the sand and understand..."
......
"ANOTHER fine mess you got us in "Tony
..........

It may be starting to dawn on(some)people exactly what Islam is all about.Christianity must be one of the most tolerant Religions,Islam the least.
.....

22 January 2011 at 15:13  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Don't fall for any of Teflon Tony's rhetoric again. He sounds so feasible doesn’t he and he makes it sound so simple.

Americans are known to go into a country especially ones with oil gas and other desirable commodities, and destabilise it. “Confessions of an Economic Hitman” by John Perkins is an interesting read. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8

22 January 2011 at 15:40  
Blogger Derek said...

Ah! - There you have it Marie. For the West it is all about controlling resources. For Islam, it's all about conquest. Land in a country, stick up a Mosque - "Ours!"

Perkins is absolutely spot on.

22 January 2011 at 16:22  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29GhXsx7-Rs&feature=related

part 2

22 January 2011 at 16:50  
Anonymous Oswin said...

I am reminded of an old joke of my late father, who had decided opinions of those whose heads were in the sand, and whose posteriors were therefore upwardly presented, to passing Mohammedans!

Alas, good taste forbids the re-telling ...

22 January 2011 at 17:17  
Anonymous JayBee said...

Many in the Islamic community have absolutely no intention of integrating into western society and are actively seeking its overthrow. By facilitating a state within a state multiculturalism has totally failed. It is very tempting to suggest an ultimatum. Integrate or Emigrate. Renounce Islam and all its works or be deported/repatriated to Islamic states. The ideal solution would be for the entire cancerous theo-political construct to be eliminated. But how can we do this without trashing our own values of religious and political freedom in the process? How could it be done in practice given the numbers involved? How would we obtain oil without starting a war when their co-religionists turn off the tap in retaliation?

Is there a practical compromise? Some sort of containment on the lines of: no Islamic imperialism, no ideas of Sharia, no insulting British troops, no abusing other citizens, no full face coverings in public, all religious activity confined to home/mosque, all barbaric practices abandoned, and no sanctions against apostates who choose to integrate. Anyone who failed to comply with all these obligations would forfeit their citizenship and be expelled. If this is impractical then we have to face up to evicting the entire community to avoid sectarianism and civil war decimating all communities. Do nothing and we sleepwalk to a ballot box Caliphate.

22 January 2011 at 17:48  
Anonymous JayBee said...

Many in the Islamic community have absolutely no intention of integrating into western society and are actively seeking its overthrow. By facilitating a state within a state multiculturalism has totally failed and left us sleepwalking towards a ballot box Caliphate. It is very tempting to suggest an ultimatum. Integrate or Emigrate. Renounce Islam and all its works or be deported/repatriated to Islamic states. Ideally this cancerous theo-political construct should be eliminated. But how can we do this without trashing our own values of religious and political freedom in the process? How could it be done in practice given the numbers involved? How would we obtain enough oil without starting a war when the Islamic world turns off the tap in retaliation?

22 January 2011 at 18:21  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ JayBee (18:21)—By facilitating a state within a state multiculturalism has totally failed ...

The Frankfurt School, with its mission to destroy, would replace ‘failed’ with ‘succeeded’. The question is, have all our post-war ministers been supporters of the School or have some just been dupes?

But how can we do this without trashing our own values of religious and political freedom in the process?

We can’t. We had to suspend our values to fight Nazism. We’ll have to suspend them again to fight Islam.

How could it be done in practice given the numbers involved?

If it proved impractical or impossible to move millions of Muslims to other countries, we’d have the options of limiting Muslims to one child per family, or [very deep breath] sterilization.

How would we obtain enough oil …

Oil can be made from coal. Luckily, we have several hundred years’ worth.

22 January 2011 at 18:52  
Blogger DP111 said...

For the last 1000 years, all Europeans agreed, that allowing Muslims into the West would be death to Western culture and civilisation. Thus Muslim invasions were repelled even when Europeans were at a military disadvantage.

But what the heck. Our current ignorant buffoons in the UK and the EU know better.

Now we have been put into a position, where if nothing is done, Muslims will gain power (Sharia follows), via the ballot box if they so desire - they just have to wait for the demographics, or we take action in a manner that is against our principles of tolerance. It places us in the inviduous position of declaring that Muslims are no longer welcome, even though the vast majority have committed no crime, as their more abundant descendants will place our civilisation in mortal danger. That is the inviduous position we have been place in.

So how do we get out of this fix?

22 January 2011 at 19:59  
Blogger DP111 said...

UK can't deport asylum seekers back to Greece as they will be subjected to 'inhumane or degrading treatment'


Britain was stripped of the power to deport hundreds of asylum seekers yesterday in a far-reaching ruling by European human rights judges.

The judgment condemned the treatment of refugees by Greece and effectively forbade countries from returning asylum seekers there as they are subjected to ‘inhumane or degrading treatment’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349477/UK-deport-asylum-seekers-Greece.html#ixzz1BklDPdRE

22 January 2011 at 20:09  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Johnny Rottenborough said: "Compare Britain’s record as a colonial power with theirs and see how much worse colonial rule could have been." I'm glad you brought that up -- people forget/ignore/lie about all the time.

Furthermore, we can juxtapose JR's point with that of DP11 @ 20;09: "Britain was stripped of the power to deport hundreds of asylum seekers yesterday in a far-reaching ruling by European human rights judges." Here we see the difference --- and can note that suffer from it. The euros are not, and never were, our superiors. They have no business denying US our human rights, just because Bliar and his cronies agreed to give us away and flood us with the other type of foreigner.

22 January 2011 at 20:29  
Blogger DP111 said...

You can lead a horse to water...
Mladen Andrijasevic

It puzzles and infuriates me that our western civilization is at risk because the elite political classes are not willing to devote a few hours to read about Islam, Shariah and jihad. Khrushchev's secret speech at the 20 Soviet Communist Party Congress in 1956 which was smuggled to the West by a Mossad agent in Poland was considered a sensational coup, but today we have all the information we need seconds away on the internet and no one cares to look. From the Israeli Labor party to western diplomats negotiating with Iran and Baroness Warsi in England there is a complete disconnect between reality and their perception of it. It takes half a day to read Shariah


http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/you_can_lead_a_horse_to_water.html

22 January 2011 at 20:33  
Blogger srizals said...

Johnny R said, ""Compare Britain’s record as a colonial power with theirs and see how much worse colonial rule could have been."

Yes, yes, for , gold, glory and gospel! I wonder if Muslims had such motto then, if not now. I agree that Britain was not as monstrous as others, but you'll see my point.

How convenient that Muslims had been grouped together with all the good, the bad and the ugly. No one wants to be grouped together with Tony Blair. And he was neither a foreigner nor a moderate Muslim. Who was he again?

22 January 2011 at 21:53  
Blogger srizals said...

Johnny R said, "we’d have the options of limiting Muslims to one child per family"

Now you're thinking like a Singapore Chinese! The only problem is they are too coward to limit it to Muslims! And they had to keep importing foreigners to fill the void of a nation!

22 January 2011 at 22:00  
Blogger srizals said...

Could Singapore be an example how Muslims would take over the Great Britain? The Chinese did it to a Malay Island, with the help of none other, than the ones who are so afraid of repeating history! Afraid that this time, they would be on the receiving end?

22 January 2011 at 22:05  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (21:53)—Britain has withdrawn from the lands she colonized. The Muslims who are at present colonizing Britain would do us a great favour if they followed suit.

@ srizals (22:05)—Could Singapore be an example how Muslims would take over the Great Britain?

The Chinese who took over Singapore have produced an economic miracle with their skill and entrepreneurship. The Chinese in Malaysia are similarly successful, much more so than Malaysian Muslims and despite the obstacles put in their way by the Malaysian government. The Muslims who are steadily taking over Britain share the underachievement of their Malaysian brothers: they are more likely to be unemployed, more likely to be disabled (because of cousin marriages), and more likely to take time off work. So, little hope of Muslim skill and entrepreneurship producing an economic miracle here.

22 January 2011 at 22:30  
Anonymous non mouse said...

I say Johnny Rottenborough's right again, at 22:30.
Not only are our present invaders unlikely to turn any skills they have to our advantage, they don't even like to give the West (esp. us) credit for what wei did with our skills. Which of the following did they invent: computers; telephones; railways; cars; aeroplanes; modern medicine; motorways (or good roads); modern ships; heating and air conditioning; etc etc etc?
And which of these mod cons did they take to their countries without Western cooperation?

So we also developed big bombs and big guns as well - but we know what damage they do; and we've been working hard to discourage further proliferation. That's what even TB purports to be about.

And, after all, I can't help but notice that very long border between Iraq and Iran; or, indeed, another longish one between Afghanistan and Iran. Pity about the 'allies' we have on that side.

So was it always all about Saddam?
Are we to be so distracted by mozzies playing victim and troll ... that they blind us to their aggression?

Puh leeze.

23 January 2011 at 02:22  
Anonymous Oswin said...

I predict that if 'Britain' is still around in fifty years time, then there will be considerably fewer muslims living here. I'd hardly call it a prophesy, more of a dead cert ... wonder what 'odds' Ladbrokes are offering? Might be worth a punt,for the grandchildren eh?

23 January 2011 at 02:31  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr Srizals, your memory is unpleasantly selective. As Mr Rottenborough points out, Britain withdrew from Empire, importantly, in many cases without a fight.

Here are two examples for you to consider, firstly India. The Indian Empire was given its independence on 15th August 1947. There was no war of independence in India and no subsequent treaty. Power was simply transferred to the governments of India and Pakistan. Bloodshed followed as the Hindus and Muslims exchanged population, frequently in the form of trains packed with corpses.

Then there is Malaya. A communist insurgency lead by the Chinese guerilla Chin Peng was defeated by a sustained operation conducted by British Commonwealth forces, mainly British including Gurkhas, and Australians. Chin Peng's forces were supported in the main by the Malayan Chinese community.

By 1960 the situation stabilised to the extent that Malaya was given its freedom by the British and the Federation of Malaysia came in to existence. Within a few years Malaysia was threatened by a fellow Muslim power, Indonesia. The subsequrnt military operation again involved British and Australian forces who were able to hold the Soviet-backed Indonesians at bay. 'Confrontasi' with Indonesia continued until 1966.

Subsequently the Indonesians admitted that what really frightened them was the presence off their coast of the nuclear-armed British aircraft-carrier HMS Victorious, based in Singapore.

So when you launch one of your nauseating attacks on us White Christians, just consider what Malaysia would be like without our sacrifice. Would you be speaking Chinese, or Japanese?

23 January 2011 at 08:04  
Anonymous len said...

Why does the World attack Christians? (Even in Malaysia)

The world's masses are devoid of God, worshipping all sorts of false gods. Those same people are hostile toward true Biblical Christianity. They hate Jesus Christ and anyone who lives for Jesus. The world hated Jesus because He was Good and holy. Jesus spoke the TRUTH. The Apostle Paul was also hated for speaking the truth, by other believers...

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" —Galatians 4:16

23 January 2011 at 09:03  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Blair may represent many things, but who would not agree with Cranmer's hypothesis, "But on the issue of 'Islamic extremism', as he expounded the threat today at the Chilcot Inquiry, he is absolutely, undeniably and irrefutably right."
The behaviour of today's radical Islamist terrorists has nothing to do with Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel. It is all part of the 'bigger picture', and it's been going on since the seventh century.
John Quincy Adams, diplomat and sixth president of the United States understood the true nature of Islam over two hundred years ago when he wrote:
"In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar (i.e., Mohammed) the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adam's capital letters)…. Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant…While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."

23 January 2011 at 09:36  
Anonymous len said...

Kiwi,(09:36)
In a nutshell that is the spirit of Islam.

The tragedy is that so many people are imprisoned within that philosophy.A philosophy or a religion can imprison people more securely than walls and bars!

Jesus came to set the prisoners free.Free from deception !.

"The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on Me, because the Lord has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, and provide for those who grieve in Zion-to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair."
God fulfills Isaiah 61:1-4 in Jesus alone.

23 January 2011 at 10:46  
Blogger srizals said...

The spirit of Islam is what made Vienna and the whole Europe safe from utter ruins! Sulaiman the magnificent could easily level everything to the ground. But rules of law, even in war, prevented him of being ruthless like Vlad. Many Muslims have shown restrain when they were victorious. I can only remember General Custer! Muslims could only be aggressive towards aggressions. For example, do you still remember the event that triggered the crusades? As the rest of the world, with the coming of Christians, almost all was lost! Maybe what you're feeling now is how they felt back then when your forefathers invaded, killed and destroyed their wealth! Do the British Muslims behaved like your forefathers, Johnny? Jose Rizal learned it the hard way for daring to stand up to his co-religionist, the Spaniards!

Bluedog, make up your mind, was Malaysia threatened by a Muslim Indonesia, or a Communist Indonesia? Thanks for bringing it up, hopefully J.R. would understand the values of the Malay, and the faith that enriched this race. We were not treated very nicely by some of the Chinese, even since the triad wars beginning to eat up our wealth of tin ore. I don't want to mention who brought them unlawfully to our lands, but anyway, we were and are not like you, kind gentlemen and ladies.

23 January 2011 at 13:17  
Blogger srizals said...

We treated the good ones differently than the bad ones, and prosper together! As expected, friction may occur from time to time, but that’s life. We deal with life problems and live on, together! Something you won't be able to do without certain degree of truth controlling you. And the Malaysian Chinese are reluctant to join the more modern Singapore. Why Johnny? As for Singapore, they survived because of our water, Johnny.

Although interestingly they had practised what the Prophet had said in one of his hadith, water is pure and it cannot be contaminated. They had produced Newater from sewers! Without Malaysian waters, they could not even prosper. Remember that. We had been gracious to them. We still are.

Yes, I'm grateful to the friendly hands of the Great Britain. He owned his greatness to his colonial lands and subjects anyway, so, we're almost even I guess. Do you know the law of ex-colonial subjects, Johnny?

Non Mouse, you can keep it up, but you can't deny history. When Europe was torn by the witch-hunt and religious wars, Muslims safeguard the knowledge of the world and perfected them. Your colonial powers destroyed our spice trade, our dealings in goods. Your preference would be in dealing with bad goods, such as opium and slavery, which destroyed the dragon of a thousand years! Only recently it recovered. Hopefully to balance the Western threat to the world. We were only born about 50 years ago. Give us time to grow. We don't have any colonial lands to plunder and colonial subjects to work as cheap labours, okay. We build our nation with our own sweat and blood, not of others.

23 January 2011 at 13:18  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (13:17)—I don’t want to mention who brought them [the Chinese] unlawfully to our lands

The ‘Malaysia’ entry on Wikipedia has it that ‘Traders and settlers from India and China arrived as early as the 1st century of the common era’, five or six hundred years before Islam was even thought of.

23 January 2011 at 13:56  
Blogger srizals said...

The ones that settle in lawfully, granted entry by the sovereign government of the land, Johnny. A great Muslim Chinese Admiral, Cheng Ho sailed the great ocean with armada larger than any fleet we have ever known, even in the present. None were conquered and used by the Chinese. So I have to say, I'm not going to treat the others as you are. Even if some of them don't appreciate it. It's not for them. It's for me. I have to preserve my centre. It is my refuge from this crazy world. As for some Malays/Muslims that chose to copy those who are not even their teacher and following those who were not even their prophet, I'm not entitled to speak for them. They are on their own.

As for the Indians, they knew that we do not and didn't treat them like their own people, culture and religion. We dare to touch them and treat them as equals. Even when some of them spit at our hospitality. But unlike you, we treat others what they deserve, sometimes, more than they deserve. As we treat our own. The good will be treated better, the bad won't be above the law. That's justice, Johnny. Our names depend on it. Don't oppress the innocents. We can either prosper together or die together. Our fate is too intertwined to be disentangled forcefully. Let's do it gently and cautiously. We don't want to be like Blair, do we? Anyway, who's threatening you Johnny? Why are you so scared? Were you experiencing like some Muslims in five nations are now? Invaded and humiliated by ruthless robotic drones and terminator-like, rude armed soldiers? The human-trophy soldier hunters were not Muslims, Johnny. They look like you. Are you like them Johnny?

23 January 2011 at 14:38  
Blogger srizals said...

Good night, Johnny. Try to be in peace. If you can't be with others, at least, be with yourself.

I'm still waiting for you, Mr. English Viking. I'll try to find our conversation somewhere in here tomorrow, Insya Allah.

23 January 2011 at 16:38  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (16:38)—Sweet dreams. ‛48:29 Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.’ We know you can’t be nice to us but be nice to Muslims.

23 January 2011 at 17:50  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Sizzles is a good name for this Troll. His splatter misfires in all directions!

I don't care what he does with his own history and language, but he really is making making a fool of himself in ours. He's not well.

24 January 2011 at 02:46  
Blogger srizals said...

Calm down Non Mouse, take a deep breath and relax. You'll live longer, hope a lot happier. You have let hate get the best of you. I know you are better than that. If only you can overcome your hate and fear of the unknown.

Johnny, there is an appropriate response to each occasion. That's the verse is all about. I have never heard anyone who fought a war, laughed and smiled at their ruthless, arrogant enemy! Only the killers on high-tech fancy terminator machine, when they are shooting at civilians in Iraq! Does thereligionofpeace.com have it on their website, E.V?
“Iraq: Wikileaks video of US military killing journalists”
http://boingboing.net/2010/04/05/wikileaks-video-of-u.html

Unless we have never ever involved ourselves in any act of aggression and war, we are entitled to doubt this verse. Well, anyone without history of war, please raise your hands. Anyone?

The mighty pagans were threatening them with annihilation. Look at how some in here responded to the 'overwhelming' Muslims in your neighbourhood. Could you show more courtesy as you have demanded of Muhammad s.a.w. and the early Muslims, when they were facing their overwhelming nemesis? Your feared nemeses are weaklings! They are at your mercy. No need to look so afraid.

24 January 2011 at 14:48  
Blogger srizals said...

The same verse translated by Marmaduke Pickthall.

Victory
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[48:29]
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers wiith (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.

Which translation are you using Johnny that used ruthless to describe ashidda' whereas it means hard? Not unless if you can ask a Christian Arab to translate it for you. And when did the West ever be gentle to its defeated nemesis? Again I have to say, remember Dresden?

24 January 2011 at 15:05  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (14:48)—I’m sorry, srizals, but I’ve had enough of being told that black is white and white is black. A common feature of blogs about Islam is that Muslim posters attempt to sow confusion about their religion. I do my best to be patient (as I patiently sat for hours while Saudi Muslims tried to convert me to Islam) but my patience is not infinite. I echo non mouse’s comment (02:46).

24 January 2011 at 15:12  
Blogger srizals said...

'as I patiently sat for hours while Saudi Muslims tried to convert me to Islam'
Johnny, I'm not trying to convert anyone to Islam. Nobody should anyway. No one can enter Islam unless he is entitled to it. And everyone is entitled to their chosen faith. He must accept that too for others. Could you share you conversion story with me, so I can understand such hatred you're experiencing.

24 January 2011 at 15:17  
Blogger srizals said...

Johnny, those who says that patience has limit, is actually lying. Patience has no limit. That is why it is known as patience. It endures everything. If it must, it will take action to stop atrocities and hideous crime upon someone or remedy glaring error. It would continue to have patience by not overdoing it. Be patient Johnny. We need it most when we are facing the ultimate test of death. Let's practice it, so that it would become natural in times when we'll need it the most.

24 January 2011 at 15:34  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (15:05)—Whatever the translation, ‘hard’ or ‘ruthless’, Islam teaches that non-Muslims are to be treated differently to Muslims, and even I know that the equivalent Christian teaching is ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’, whether the neighbour is Christian, Muslim, or anything.

@ srizals (15:17)—I don’t hate Islam; it isn’t worth the effort. I don’t hate Muslims; I feel sorry for them. Such little ill-feeling as I can muster is reserved for the politicians who allowed Islam into Britain and Europe. As for the ‘conversion story’, time often passed very slowly in Saudi Arabia and any diversion was welcome, even a monologue on Islamic theology.

24 January 2011 at 17:55  
Blogger srizals said...

Johnny, do you have this in the Bible? What does the Bible says on murder or killing unjustly? This rule generalise us all, humans. Descendent of Adam a.s. Only Islam says that all humans are created equal. We have the same source of genes and bloodline.

[49:13]
O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into races and tribes, so that you may identify one another. Surely the noblest of you, in Allah’s sight, is the one who is most pious of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

Notice the reference of O mankind. Not O Muslim.

About taking a life.

[5:32]
For this reason, We decreed for the children of Isrā’īl that whoever kills a person not in retaliation for a person killed, nor (as a punishment) for spreading disorder on the earth, is as if he has killed the whole of humankind, and whoever saves the life of a person is as if he has saved the life of the whole of humankind. Certainly, Our messengers have come to them with clear signs. Then, after all that, many of them are there to commit excesses on the earth.

[5:33]
Those who fight against Allah and His Messenger and run about trying to spread disorder on the earth, their punishment is no other than that they shall be killed, or be crucified, or their hands and legs be cut off from different sides, or they be kept away from the land (they live in). That is a humiliation for them in this world, and for them there is a great punishment in the Hereafter;

[5:34]
except those who repent before you overpower them. Then, be sure that Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.

Another reminder for Muslims.

[60:7]
It is hoped that Allah will bring about love between you and those of them with whom you have enmity. Allah is Powerful, and Allah is Most-forgiving, Very-Merciful.

[60:8]
Allah does not forbid you as regards those who did not fight you on account of faith, and did not expel you from your homes, that you do good to them, and deal justly with them. Surely Allah loves those who maintain justice.

24 January 2011 at 22:37  
Blogger srizals said...

[60:9]
Allah forbids you only about those who fought you on account of faith, and expelled you from your homes, and helped (others) in expelling you, that you have friendship with them. Those who develop friendship with them are the wrongdoers.

And please do not use the abrogation theory by non Muslim scholars, what more 'self appointed' scholars that openly declared they are the enemy of Islam. These verses are and were not abrogated, now and then.

Where is the proof in the Koran or the Hadith that said Muslims are treated differently than Non Muslims in terms of justice? If you want more, such as in marriages, you have to become one of course.

Prophet Mohammed said: “ One who hurts a non-Muslim, he hurts me and one who hurts me, hurts God.” (Hadith)

The prophet of Islam said: “Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection.” (Hadith)

He also said: “ Whoever persecutes a non Muslim or demands work from him beyond his capacity or takes something from him with evil intentions, I shall be a complainant against him on the day of Resurrection.”(Hadith)

“ Whoever relieves a human being from a grief of this world, God will relieve him from a grief on the day of judgment.” (Hadith)

The son of the Muslim governor of Egypt once slapped a native Christian when he had raced ahead of him. When the complaint was brought before Omar, the second Caliph, he ordered the son to be beaten by the Christian.
Omar said to the governor: “ How could you make slaves of these people who had been born free?”
http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/religion/nonmuslim_ffares.htm

[5:5]
This day, good things have been made lawful for you. The food of the people of the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them, and good women from among believers, and good women from among those who were given the Book before you, provided you give them their dowers, binding yourself in marriage, neither going for lust, nor having paramours. Whoever rejects Faith, his effort will go to waste and, in the Hereafter, he will be among the losers.

If your proof is regarding the behaviour of Muslims in dealing with their dreaded nemesis, I hope you can find an example from your own sources, be it, historical or biblical, on how to do war. In normal circumstances, everything was done normally. Thanks.

24 January 2011 at 22:38  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals—The Bible says, ‘Thou shalt not kill.’

You select verses and hadiths to show that non-Muslims should be well-treated but the plain fact is that non-Muslims are not well-treated in Muslim countries. To my mind, that’s exactly how Islam operates: say one thing and do another.

I’m retiring from this thread now. Take care.

24 January 2011 at 23:14  
Blogger srizals said...

Not all Muslims are 100% Islam compliant Johnny. The 200% over compliance is troublesome too. They have forgotten that they are the moderate people of two extremes. They are the ummatan wassatan.

[2:143]
In the same way We made you a moderate Ummah (community), so that you should be witnesses over the people, and the Messenger a witness to you.
And We did not prescribe the Qiblah which you used to observe except to know the one who follows the Messenger as distinct from the one who turns on his heels. It was burdensome indeed, but not on those whom Allah guided. Allah will not allow your faith go to waste. Certainly Allah is very kind, very merciful to the people.

That's why we have the Sharia law. As all have their own law. I hope we can at least remind the Christians and the Jews, "Thou shalt not kill" ever. They were and are not allowed to kill.

Everyone should remember that they are held accountable to their actions. We can't escape our misdeeds as we don't want our good deeds to go to waste either.

The Earthquake
With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.

[99:6]
That day the people will come back (from the place of reckoning) in different groups, so that they may be shown (the fruits of) their deeds.

[99:7]
So, whoever does any good act (even) to the weight of a particle will see it.

[99:8]
And whoever does evil (even) to the weight of a particle will see it.

Not even Muslims are free from their sins, especially major ones. Not unless they can cleanse the filth from themselves, with their own tears, sweat or blood. Not the tears, sweat and blood of others. Take care.

25 January 2011 at 02:28  
Blogger James Reade said...

And presumably Margaret Thatcher was none of those things you called Blair?

Whatever.

25 January 2011 at 12:36  
Blogger srizals said...

Johnny,
I've found some reasons of why certain Christians in Iraq started to be a target in war-torn Iraq, years after both gulf wars. And a surprise for those who claim Bush was not a Christian and he was not driven by his faith. A silent crusade maybe? Out of curiosity, why do some Christians are fond to preach the people in countries destroyed by them? Maybe Pounce_uk has an answer.

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/radical-christians-in-iraq/

25 January 2011 at 12:57  

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