Saturday, February 26, 2011

Egyptian Army fires on Coptic Christians in monastery



There has been much speculation what might happen to Egypt's Coptic Christians following the downflall of Mubarak. Would they be persecuted and murdered, like the Christians in post-Saddam Iraq? This video and report is a fine example of the Islamic pogroms against Christians in the Middle East - Assyrian, Coptic, Catholic, Protestant and Chaldean. It comes from the Assyrian International News Agency:
(AINA) -- For the second time in as many days, Egyptian armed force stormed the 5th century old St. Bishoy monastery in Wadi el-Natroun, 110 kilometers from Cairo. Live ammunition was fired, wounding two monks and six Coptic monastery workers. Several sources confirmed the army's use of RPG ammunition. Four people have been arrested including three monks and a Coptic lawyer who was at the monastery investigating yesterday's army attack.

Monk Aksios Ava Bishoy told activist Nader Shoukry of Freecopts the armed forces stormed the main entrance gate to the monastery in the morning using five tanks, armored vehicles and a bulldozer to demolish the fence built by the monastery last month to protect themselves and the monastery from the lawlessness which prevailed in Egypt during the January 25 Uprising.

"When we tried to address them, the army fired live bullets, wounding Father Feltaows in the leg and Father Barnabas in the abdomen," said Monk Ava Bishoy. "Six Coptic workers in the monastery were also injured, some with serious injuries to the chest."

The injured were rushed to the nearby Sadat Hospital, the ones in serious condition were transferred to the Anglo-Egyptian Hospital in Cairo.

Father Hemanot Ava Bishoy said the army fired live ammunition and RPGs continuously for 30 minutes, which hit part of the ancient fence inside the monastery. "The army was shocked to see the monks standing there praying 'Lord have mercy' without running away. This is what really upset them," he said. "As the soldiers were demolishing the gate and the fence they were chanting 'Allahu Akbar' and 'Victory, Victory'."

He also added that the army prevented the monastery's car from taking the injured to hospital.

The army also attacked the Monastery of St. Makarios of Alexandria in Wady el-Rayan, Fayoum, 100 km from Cairo. It stormed the monastery and fired live ammunition on the monks. Father Mina said that one monk was shot and more than ten have injuries caused by being beaten with batons. The army demolished the newly erected fence and one room from the actual monastery and confiscated building materials. The monastery had also built a fence to protect itself after January 25 and after being attacked by armed Arabs and robbers leading to the injury of six monks, including one monk in critical condition who is still hospitalized.

The army had given on February 21 an ultimatum to this monastery that if the fence was not demolished within 48 hours by the monks, the army would remove it themselves (AINA 2-23-2011).

The Egyptian Armed Forces issued a statement on their Facebook page denying that any attack took place on St. Bishoy Monastery in Wady el-Natroun, "Reflecting our belief in the freedom and chastity of places of worship of all Egyptians." The statement went on to say that the army just demolished some fences built on State property and that it has no intention of demolishing the monastery itself (video of army shooting at Monastery).

Father Hedra Ava Bishoy said they are in possession of whole carton of empty bullet shells besides the people who are presently in hospital to prove otherwise.

The army attack came after the monks built a fence for their protection after the police guards left their posts and fled post the January 25th Uprising and after being attacked by prisoners who were at large, having escaped from their prisons during that period.

"We contacted state security and they said there was no police available for protection," said Father Bemwa," So we called the Egyptian TV dozens of times to appeal for help and then we were put in touch with the military personnel who told us to protect ourselves until they reach us." He added that the monks have built a low fence on the borders of one side of the monastery which is vulnerable to attacks, on land which belongs to the monastery, with the monks and monastery laborers keeping watch over it 24 hours a day.

The monks of St. Bishoy are now holding a sit-in in front of monastery in protest against the abuse of the army by using live bullets against civilians

Nearly 7000 Copts staged a peaceful rally in front of the Coptic Cathedral in Cairo, where Pope Shenouda III was giving his weekly lecture (video), after which they marched towards Tahrir Square to protest the armed forces attacks on Coptic monasteries.

In this fraught and unstable context of revolutionary zeal which is sweeping throughout Arabia - in which Christians are being persecuted, tortured, raped and murdered - would it not be wise for HM Government to focus on bringing stability, peace and democracy to the region - a democracy based on the basic human rights of freedom of expression, association and religion - instead of procuring defence contracts, and thereby risking the arming of those very forces which seek to cleanse the region of Christians and purge it of the most ancient expressions of Christianity?

57 Comments:

Anonymous Stuart said...

Thank you so much for highlighting this.

I also covered some of this and I received a comment saying that as this wasn’t featured in the MSM, it should be treated with suspicion, as probably not true events.

My heart was pumping and my fists clenched as I deleted that comment.

Where do you even begin addressing views such as that?

26 February 2011 at 10:59  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

Your Grace

The West is wholly responsible for all of what is taking place. We empowered Islam with a sense of tangibility up to the point where they believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence. Our own fear of loss and greed for more of everything at the expense of freedom has sunk our entire future and safety into the Islamic abyss of primitive ideology based upon ancient terrors.

The worse is yet to come. You may like to join in the mass orgy of political masturbation about democracy in the Arab nations, but be warned, if you are at all capable of opening your eyes to any colour other than blue. The path to the Darkside has been cleared and we are all walking down it slowly but surely. God is not Great - not the God that you all like to imagine.

26 February 2011 at 11:11  
Anonymous Stuart said...

I totally agree Jared.

It's painful watching the misplaced jubilation of the Western world.

26 February 2011 at 11:19  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Jared Gaites 'the chanteuse' warbled sweetly on 26 February 2011 11:11

"Your Grace

The West is wholly responsible for all of what is taking place. We empowered Islam with a sense of tangibility up to the point where they believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence. Our own fear of loss and greed for more of everything at the expense of freedom has sunk our entire future and safety into the Islamic abyss of primitive ideology based upon ancient terrors."

Gobsmacked, that old Ernst should find himself in agreement with you, sweet rascal of a boy.

"The worse is yet to come. You may like to join in the mass orgy of political masturbation about democracy in the Arab nations, but be warned, if you are at all capable of opening your eyes to any colour other than blue. The path to the Darkside has been cleared and we are all walking down it slowly but surely. God is not Great - not the God that you all like to imagine."

Then you go and spoil it, you little scallywag.

Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 12:27  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

Which scenario should we fear the most, or should it be all?:-

*Orwell's 1984.
*Huxley's Brave New world.
*Chesterton's The Flying Inn.
*Or the complete and hysterical dystopian ideology of the second coming.

Doom I say, DOOM!

26 February 2011 at 12:28  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Young Scallywag sung 26 February 2011 12:28

"Doom I say, DOOM!"

Your fears about the 'Almighty's' intentions are greatly misplaced, dear boy!

How very Fred Elliott I say, Fred Elliott.

Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 12:43  
Anonymous DREADNAUGHT said...

The West is wholly responsible for all of what is taking place. We empowered Islam with a sense of tangibility up to the point where they believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence.

What utter unilaterally uninformed crap!

26 February 2011 at 12:47  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

Dreadnaught

At least expand on that and inform me. I was thinking about how Islam was confined to the third world until we in the West began to take it seriously. I remember a time when if you spoke against immigration levels in this country you were accused of unilateral uninformed crap-mongering . Glad I didn't listen then, and glad I am thinking you are another of those hollow men who can't see beyond their own arrogance.

26 February 2011 at 13:07  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

An antiquated old clipper boomed 26 February 2011 12:47

"The West is wholly responsible for all of what is taking place." Think you will find the mandate given to european powers after WW1 and short-sightedness by said powers went a long way towards helping to accomplish said situation.

"We empowered Islam with a sense of tangibility up to the point where they believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence. "

Even the mighty bullying BBC 'durst not bring against them a railing accusation, but said 'Jeremy Bowen feels your pain and will speak towards and for you accordingly'.

You obviously appear to enjoy and have indeed taken it to a fine art, in talking out of 'the 7th planet in the solar system'.

Try and give a detailed explanation of why something stated is incorrect, as this will give the impression that you know something about what you are talking about, there's a good fellow..

Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 13:10  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

Which is it the worse to speak:

Unilaterally uninformed crap, or multilaterally uninformed crap?

26 February 2011 at 13:14  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Your Grace

The greater part of your opening comments is on record from said Assyrian International News Agency so appears fact, However;

"In this fraught and unstable context of revolutionary zeal which is sweeping throughout Arabia - in which Christians are being persecuted, tortured, raped and murdered (It appears that the GB public believe the reported atrocities are being accomplished by some strange, foreign, non egyptian inhabitants and not the jolly chaps and chappesess's leading the revolution) - would it not be wise for HM Government to focus on bringing stability, peace and democracy to the region (Indeed, Indeed)- a democracy based on the basic human rights of freedom of expression, association and religion (Anathema if shown towards others different from themselves, perhaps)- instead of procuring defence contracts, and thereby risking the arming of those very forces which seek to cleanse the region of Christians and purge it of the most ancient expressions of Christianity? (Who will heed to your wise report, Sir)"

Humble Communicant

E S Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 13:31  
Anonymous Dreadnaught in response to Jarred Gates said...

JG
Allow me to take your first sentence - you state (without expansion or qualification)

'The West is wholly responsible for all of what is taking place.'

I guess you mean that you actually believe in the left-wing driven, Western guilt-fest that is so trendy today amongst the latte classes, whom have concluded that all the ills in the Middle East are the fault of the West -No?

Or, Are you speaking of Islam's historical record or just of despots in general?

Or may be you are referring to the post WW1 capitulation of the Ottoman Empire or the stirling work of T.E.Lawrence in uniting Arab Tribes against the Turks and their allies?

Now the second part of your statement - you say:-

We empowered Islam with a sense of tangibility up to the point where they believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence.

How did we 'empower' Islam any further than they have historically empowered themselves in various world locations to subjugate or destroy all before them?

You see what I'm getting at - I suggest if anyone should expand on their statements it is your goodself Sir!

26 February 2011 at 13:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A foretaste of what is to come to the remaining Christians in Islamic Europe before the end of the century.

Let us give thanks and praise to the EU and our very own puppet Lib/Lab/Con government for deliberately and steadfastly steering us down the road to our own destruction and annihilation. Amen.

26 February 2011 at 13:42  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Jared Gaites (11:11)—up to the point where they [Muslims] believe in their own new importance based upon fear and violence

Muslims have always had a sense of importance (to put it mildly). It derives from the fact that their faith abrogates all others and renders the followers of other faiths worthless. That they now have a new, stronger sense of importance is attributable to the immense wealth of the oil producers and to the rapidly increasing Muslim population: strength in numbers.

Mix all that in with a faith that, since its earliest days, has always valued expediency over morality (Islamic law even codifies the occasions on which Muslims are obliged to lie to achieve their objectives), and the West is faced with a formidable enemy that is convinced it is always right and has divine authority to use any method to achieve its ends.

In contrast, the West presents a sorry picture of guilt, national indebtedness, declining populations, lost purpose and loss of belief (in Christianity and in ourselves). Just when the West is at its weakest, physically and spiritually, what should come along but wealthy, confident Islam. ‘Allahu akbar. Victory, victory.’

26 February 2011 at 14:25  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Johnny wisely stated 26 February 2011 14:25

"In contrast, the West presents a sorry picture of guilt, national indebtedness, declining populations, lost purpose and loss of belief (in Christianity and in ourselves). " A self inflicted mortal wound!

There is more to you, Johnny, than merely submitting a wealth of statistics and facts.

Old Ernst is suitably impressed at your thoughtful insights.

If you were one of his operatives, Ernst would award 3 stars. Consider them 'Honourary', old boy.

Ernst

26 February 2011 at 14:35  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Hate to say it but I think we should leave well alone in that region. The UK has done enough damage in the last 150 years or so to last many lifetimes. We need to know our place now.

26 February 2011 at 14:42  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

This is just the beginning. In Iran Christians are routinely locked out of their churches because the local Imam doesn't approve of their worshipping that day or feels they shouldn't. Across the Islamic world people of other Faiths are Dhimmi and may not hold positions of authority over Muslims.

Will any of this feature on the Atheist controlled BBC or MSM? Don't hold your breath.

26 February 2011 at 14:42  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Young DanJo says 26 February 2011 14:42

"Hate to say it but I think we should leave well alone in that region.(if you mean foolish tinkering, Ernst agrees, my lad) The UK has done enough damage in the last 150 years or so to last many lifetimes( Dear boy, old ernst thinks you are treating the UK too harshly as it has done much good and Ernst would like to hear from you regarding those 'Exemplary World Powers' you must have in mind when stating this. Would India have achieved independence as benignly, if a bit messy between the ethnic and religiously different, as it did if say, it had been a part of the German empire?. Did the UK not stop slavery worldwide or is it Ernst's imagination this ocurred historically. No nation is perfect by any stretch of the imagination and is judged on the basis of each generations response to their identity, aspirations and correcting where it has gone 'off course') as well as. We need to know our place now. (What do you envisage that 'place' to be?, my fine boy)"

Ernst S Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 15:15  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Stuart (10:59)—I received a comment saying that as this wasn’t featured in the MSM, it should be treated with suspicion

Searching for ‘coptic christians egypt’ on the BBC yields the corporation’s official feel-good line: Egypt’s Muslims and Christians join hands in protest. I appreciate that informing the British people about Muslim persecution of non-Muslims will not help the integration—let alone the assimilation—of British Muslims, but the truth can only be repressed for so long, even by the BBC.

26 February 2011 at 15:39  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

An unusually silent scallywag said 26 February 2011 14:42

No reply that your comments about the UK are overstated?

Well, see below what you previously stated elsewhere;

DanJo said 26 February 2011 14:22

"We are what we are in all our glory: a self-aware, gregarious species (PEOPLE?), sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes selfish, sometimes altruistic, sometimes creative, sometimes destructive.... Rejoice in the wonder of it, it's truly marvellous."

'Wanting your Battenburg and eating it', comes to mind when wrongly comparing a Nation to it's inhabitants IF you truly believe what you state. Are not the inhabitants the Nation as much as the Nation are its inhabitants?

Bit self whimsical, my boy!

"Rejoice in the wonder of it, it's truly marvellous."

Could be said about our Nation and it's history, could it not?

Ernst *Jerusalem blaring away in the background*

26 February 2011 at 16:01  
Blogger Jared Gaites said...

Dreadnaught

Yes to all except the last point because they were successfully halted in their tracks. But yes we have indulged them at our own expense. Thanks for expanding, it saved me the wasted effort.

Oh, and no, I don't see what you are getting at. What are these ills you speak of in the Middle East, and what could have possibly caused them?

26 February 2011 at 16:40  
Anonymous General W R Monger said...

@Blofeld said (13.10)

Think you will find the mandate given to european powers after WW1 and short-sightedness by said powers went a long way towards helping to accomplish said situation.

The arabs are the problem, we should have made sure they stayed in those tents, away from all that oil and an education.
It has meant the possible capitulation of everything we hold dear in the west. We gave away land that will now comme back to bite us on the jacksie.

Our Gov's even encouraged them to sneak in unnoticed by the public in large numbers and live among us. Well done, Fabianista loving scumbags.

A Patriot.

26 February 2011 at 16:59  
Anonymous len said...

The West is responsible for what is taking place in the Arab World?.
Well only partly!.
What is taking place(I`ve said this so many times that even I am getting bored saying it!)is a mainly a spiritual battle, but it has its roots in Biblical History.Without an understanding of the past it is impossible to make value judgements on the present situation!.
It is the battle between Ishmael and Isaac,between Arab and Jew.
Anyone seen supporting the Jews automatically becomes an enemy of the Arabs.Hence the attacks on Christians in the Arab World.

Galatians 4 tells us that Ishmael had been "born according to the flesh" while Isaac had been "born according to the promise". Isaac replaced Ishmael as the favored son and heir. This, of course, made Ishmael jealous and bitter. As a result, he mocked and disdained his half-brother. Eventually the situation became so intolerable that Abraham's wife Sarah demanded that Ishmael and his Egyptian concubine mother, Hagar, be expelled permanently from Abraham's family.This jealousy and resentment created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.

26 February 2011 at 17:07  
Anonymous len said...

From Ishmael's line sprung a man, Muhammad (570-632), who initially founded Islam as a religion for the Arab people. Later he tried to universalize it and impose it on all mankind. In Islam, Jesus is reduced to a mere prophet; and by making himself equal to Jesus and ultimately superior to Him, Muhammad perpetuated the spirit of rivalry, not reconciliation. The roots of this present-day alienation go back to the tragedy of events that led to the breakup of Abraham's family. Islam became the venue for the aggrieved and alienated members of this family to redress the shame of that early expulsion from the tents of Abraham. Even more than that, Islam is committed to the attempt to dominate the world.

26 February 2011 at 17:19  
Anonymous PuzzlingChristian said...

It is terrible what is happening there, but maybe this will bring democracy, freedom of expression, after a few years. It would be interesting to see how far in the Middle Orient it will spread.

26 February 2011 at 17:28  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Len said 26 February 2011 17:19

"It is the battle between Ishmael and Isaac, between Arab and Jew."

Well, anyone who wants to pretend they descended from the line of Esau or Ishmael, that is.
Need I remind you, old boy, it is an historical fact that others existed in the region who were neither descended from Esau or Ishmael, who we may loosely term arab at the same period or earlier.

They merely suppose descendancy as they would like to 'legitimise their tribes' by attaching themselves to historical based religions accepted by the West and as having superceded them by being a truer revelation from the Almighty.

Ernst

26 February 2011 at 17:32  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJO @ 14:42 :

You ''hate to say it...'' - do you really hate to say it DanJO, do you really?

''We need to know our place now''?

Perhaps, as you suggested on a previous post, you might like to be 'buried arse-up in concrete for use as a bicycle-stand', yes?
Is that your warped, hyper-liberal position, welcoming tandem riding Taliban?

Ooo, think of the ecstasy that awaits you, assuaging the guilt of all us vile Westerners and Christians!

Your preferred-to-Christian, muslim friends, might even get around to making you a saint: Saint DanJo d'Arc, La Pucelle d'Wherever (insert accordingly).

Mind you, martyred and burned by the English, might leave you unfit for purpose; so back to the drawring-board on that one?

26 February 2011 at 17:41  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Muslims are a people obsessed with the idea their book is true and are prepared to murder in order they prove it.

They are up against a people who believe their book is true and are prepared to kill in order they prove it.

I only wish I was an arms dealer, an eye for an eye will leave all the World blind but in the World of the blind a one eyed man is King.

26 February 2011 at 17:43  
Anonymous Oswin said...

or the 'drawing board' even - pfft!

26 February 2011 at 17:44  
Anonymous nicodemus said...

Supposed descendancy or real, is the purpose of the Lord to reconcile 'Isaac' and 'Ishmael'? Even though Isaac was the child of promise, Ishmael was nevertheless treated shamefully. The Lord appeared to Hagar and gave he assurance and a promise "So will I increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count," even though Ishmael (which means God hears) would be "a wild donkey of a man."

26 February 2011 at 17:50  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Oswin said 26 February 2011 17:44

"so back to the drawring-board on that one?"

I fully sympathise Oswin, as it appears that scallywag DanJo has the same effect on Ernst's spelling ability when Ernst is responding to said 'stubborn operative'.

Ernst now 'Takes a deep breath, counts to ten, types'!

Naughty DanJo.

Ernst

26 February 2011 at 17:53  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Nicodemus said 26 February 2011 17:50

Supposed descendancy or real (Is truth irrelevant, Sir, or did you learn little whilst sitting at the feet of The Master), is the purpose of the Lord to reconcile 'Isaac' and 'Ishmael'(All men to God and therefore to each other, through Himself)? Even though Isaac was the child of promise, Ishmael was nevertheless treated shamefully (Because his father did not believe or obey the Almighty, dear chap). The Lord appeared to Hagar and gave he assurance and a promise "So will I increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count," even though Ishmael (which means God hears) would be "a wild donkey of a man. (What a Wonderful and Kind God who would do that, YES, even though the problem was not of His making?)"

It appears you were not paying full attention to what Jesus was saying to you at the time, Nicodemus , old sport.

E S Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 18:03  
Anonymous Dreadnaught to the PuzzlingChristian said...

It is terrible what is happening there, but maybe this will bring democracy ...

The Middle East this year is just like what we saw in Iraq in 2003, in Iran in 1979, or in the Palestinian Authority in 2006: Nice talk and theories about liberalism and democracy, yet in practice what we have is anarchy and violence, terrible deaths, and Islamic autocracy waiting to move in.

26 February 2011 at 18:20  
Anonymous Signore Specsavers said...

Bred in the bone said 26 February 2011 17:43

Ciao Cyclops.

That tunnel vision is molto obviouso.

67 Yorkshire Street
Rochdale
Lancashire
OL16 1BZ

Pop inna somea time for a pronto check up. We have a nice range of Pince-nez to selecta from for the opticali and faciali challenged.

Tommaso da Modena

26 February 2011 at 18:22  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Think you will find the mandate given to european powers after WW1 and short-sightedness by said powers went a long way towards helping to accomplish said situation."

During the war too. We basically cleared the way for the Saud family, and Wahhabism, to take control of the Arabian peninsula. What a legacy that was.

Where else have we been involved around the region with over geo-political meddling? Iraq. Iran. Palestine/Jordan. Egypt. Libya for a short while. Cyprus.

26 February 2011 at 19:00  
Anonymous nicodemus said...

To Ernest, old chap.

Clearly you need to be born from above to perceive the kingdom ... not withstanding, I was expressing that the intractable political and religious problems of the Middle East, which go back millenia, it seems to me, require a depth of reconciliation not seriously talked about.

N

26 February 2011 at 19:19  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Nickleodemus said 26 February 2011 19:19

"Clearly you need to be born from above to perceive the kingdom "

Just as well that Ernst is not going to ask for your proof of 'Wind and Water' regarding your new birth.

Unfortunately you miss old ernst's point.

Reconciliation requires that each person or side look at the problem and ask the question. Is what I am saying true and can I prove it.

To help, as a person mediating in a reconciliatory manner between two people or sides, you must also ask similar questions to help them reach a solution.

The wall to reconciliation becomes that if one side wrongly believe they are descendants of Esau or Ishmael with no documentary proof but they claim to being wrongfully dispossessed of a birthright and you then have a supposed arabic prophet who states all arabs are from said line and have indeed been dispossessed and that he had a revelation from an angel from Allah to confirm this as so.
Huston, We Have A Problem!

Well, how can you find a genuine reason for any reconciliation... despite the facts, old fellow!

Ernst S Blofeld

26 February 2011 at 19:56  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ DanJ0 (19:00)—We basically cleared the way for the Saud family, and Wahhabism, to take control of the Arabian peninsula.

If Britain had lost the First World War, the Ottoman Empire may have retained control of Arabia and the oil fields, Wahhabism would never have spread beyond the Najd, and Hitler would never have come to power in Germany. Hmm.

26 February 2011 at 20:03  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace

Your communicant fears for the monastery of St Catherine in the Sinai, letter patent from Mahommed nothwithstanding. There seems no limit to the primitive savagery of Islam and the Ummah.

26 February 2011 at 20:32  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

The Middle East this year is just like what we saw in Iraq in 2003, in Iran in 1979, or in the Palestinian Authority in 2006: Nice talk and theories about liberalism and democracy, yet in practice what we have is anarchy and violence, terrible deaths, and Islamic autocracy waiting to move in.

26 February 2011 18:20

Quite so.

All of this nice talk and theories as you call it comes from the MSM headed-up by the establishments BBC.

IMO the establishment are setting up The Islamic world for a big fall, at some time in the future.

As they did the likes of the ordinary people of central Europe, and that of The Japanese Empire, during the 20's 30's and 40's.

They are setting the stage, so to speak, for a coming 3rd and final World War. At the end of which the Establishment will have control over the running of the entire planet, and more importantly its GOLD and energy supplies. The UN, or its replacement will become what its founders long since planned it to be. Which is a true WORLD government/dictatorship utterly under their subversively covert control.

Not at all democratic, of course, however in this sense nothing will have changed, as the same people who run it now, will be running it then.

The truly remarkable thing is quite how successfully the western worlds population have been carefully mind controlled into genuinely believing the quite absurd proposition that it is western culture that is under threat from Islam, when the exact opposite is actually the case.

For you can be absolutely assured that in the end it is 'western culture,' that will 'win,' as there has never been any prospect of it ever losing.

I mean, try to look at this from a fundamentalist Muslim perspective.

At the end of the day, the western world has an armed force only matched or exceeded by that from another planet. The Islamic world on the other hand only has what our largely Christian establishment wishes to sell them. Which to a very large measure is not much more then some second rate AK47's, 3rd hand Toyota pick up trucks, and even more rusty RPG's

Western culture will be adapted to an authoritarian form of government, with far more similarities to Nazi Germany and Soviet Communism then many would care to imagine. A sort of corporatist communism.

An evolving cross between 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World, with a tiny bit of false libertarianism thrown in to help keep the plebs diverted. Much like it is today, in fact, whatever lies the BBC may tell, to help persuade the profane of otherwise.

Perhaps, just perhaps the establishment plan to get where they long since planned to get without as much pain and suffering as a 3rd world war would undoubtedly bring to the common people of this planet?

However history teaches me at least, to doubt it very much indeed. To the people who are really in charge of this world of theirs, the lives or welfare of millions if not billions, is of little, or less then zero importance.

26 February 2011 at 20:41  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Signore Specsavers aka Ernst?

You confuse tunnel vision with 380° pin pointed focus.

26 February 2011 at 21:06  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Your grace makes an important image perhaps , I have seen a couple of films on the copts , mainly focused on there important early christian history .Stood unarmed in a hail of lethal force praying for the lord to have mercy is perhaps beyond many christians who have not quite understood "I am with you unto the end"
I thank len for his theological references although I perhaps see a broader interpretation and even some insight into the parable of the wayward son (or as I was once wisely told by a dear methodist and very spiritual lady, the love of the father).
It is pretty clear that Gaddafi
is at his limits , so we should not be surprised that certain aspects of a network , rather than axis of evil are being pressed into proganda hoping to engage some sort of backward falling for the arab world.
The revenge by the lybian people so expressed by a report from Bhengazi where local people were visiting the police headquarters (a police institution of fear that had been off limits for decades) was not so much a tribal release but a humanity one , he said "we can think for ourselves for the first time".
Saif speech on the west choosing Gaddafi or alqueda in some ways just showed how much trouble is comming there way from his own people in giving such a fake choice ,which perhaps only could have come from such an oppresive dictator.
The UN is seeing the other dimensions , the internal choices/questions for the Arab world are not about western influence ,but about if it has goverments that are capable of giving there own people more of part in the benefical running of there own countries and laws that give there people a greater degree of freedom, if there is wisdom they should not fear it.
The west may have it faults , but it has reasoned that war is neccessary for defending freedom and not for making dictatorships that impoverish there people (the arms sales do not look so clever in this smaller world ,but things have changed only in the last few years). The arab world has this question to contend with , beyond the immediate trouble.
I am sure that free libyans may indeed invite some western help for they see beyond the fake tribal argument propoganda .The safe keeping of his best forces to strike a finalie bow out , is perhaps as many of his elite guard and airforce are thinking, a rather bad position to be in , as the retreating Rommel discovered , the terrain makes air superiority a short and deadly battle .
The recent stories of troops in tripoli being set on fire if they disobey shoot to kill , means its only a matter of time before the defecting generals link up make there pleas to the tripoli forces to switch sides and he has more desertion and the route opens up to his bunker.
He perhaps would be better to flee , if the free libyans do request and get military help and arab approval for action rather than a siege , his forces will have huge rapid losses and a very angry mob who perhaps will not be so keen to see any trial occure . The billions of personal assets for his cronies is also becoming aware to the free libyans.
I just hope his defected generals can get a message or some leaflets into Tripoli and they dont overeact to the mercenaries which seem to be posted on the perimiter. If there are 8000 troops in Tripoli a siege would be painfull but clear, but terms of exit or surrender are becoming the only offers on the table as the free libyans take there message of hope and more of the geography and he is causing hurt to his own people in not wanting change.

26 February 2011 at 21:06  
Anonymous bluedog said...

not a mahine @ 21:06, it seems likely the fate of the enterprise Gaddafi & Sons will be that of Saddam Hussein & Sons.

26 February 2011 at 21:29  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

That cheeky bred in the bone chap 26 February 2011 21:06

My dear boy.

I am flabberghasted, lost for words, mortified, horrified even.

As if Ernest Stavro Blofeld is capable as such deception?

Does sound like a damn good offer though. Is that buy one get one half price?

Sir, you have just made me burn my muffins, I jest not.

Ciao ;-0

A very miffed Ernst

26 February 2011 at 21:57  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I agree bluedog he has set the stakes that way , but i do not belive his army is prepared to go with him , they must be smart enough to know his finalie will cost them dear.
The arab world has to decide if his whole tribe should pay for his own misrule and proganda , or accept the new free lybia. My own thoughts are the arab world must decide the new choice and then go to UN , to make a safe corridor out of Tripoli for those that wish to leave/surrender , in what can only be a city/bunker fight out with as few non particpants as possible caught up. I dont think massive force is what is required at this point , but that situation may change if his army chooses not to show restraint and inflicts the bloodshed I think would be better to avoid as his military postion/options are so weak.

His army must realise switching sides for a better lybia is a differnt position to forced surrender and large casualties.

26 February 2011 at 22:11  
Anonymous malvoisinAn intersting post said...

An interesting post especially the last paragraph, which shows that the author is living in cloud cuckooland,
perhaps he can show his readership which islamic countries are run as a democracy based on on the basic human rights of freedom of expression,association and religion?
You also state that Christians are being raped,persecuted,tortured and murdered. Very true, except this has been ongoing since the foundation of Islam and is not a recent turn of events as yout post seems to suggest.

You state HM Government should be focused on bringing stability peace and freedom to the region because of all the murders ,rapes torture and persecution of Christians, yet they will not or cannot do that in the UK. The Government knew at least six years ago that young white girls were being systematicaly drugged ,raped and then pimped out by muslims, as one detective said it is like a tidal wave in all our towns and cities. So in those six years of silence by the lib/lab con pact how many more girls were raped? As for murder and torture you have to look no further than Kriss Donald and many more I could mention.
Finally you state those who seek to cleanse the region of Christianity,again, this has been ongoing since the founding of Islam. As an example turkey was once majority Christian and is now 99% muslim,how did this religous change come about? Persuasive argument?

26 February 2011 at 22:29  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

26 February 2011 at 22:47  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

26 February 2011 at 23:13  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

How about we try to to keep this thread on the matter to hand?

Bless you.

26 February 2011 at 23:26  
Anonymous Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Archbishop Cranmer 26 February 2011 23:26

Sorry Your Grace.

I presumed your ashes were tucked up for the night, long before this ungodly hour.

As it is so late, are you expecting something interesting to happen news-wise, perhaps?

Toadying Apologies.

E S Blofeld

Ps

I blame Johnny.

26 February 2011 at 23:34  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Archbishop Cranmer (23:26)—Sorry. Should’ve mailed you the link. I blame Mr Blofeld.

26 February 2011 at 23:54  
Blogger Terry White said...

Religious intolerance - is there anything less religious?

27 February 2011 at 00:23  
Anonymous GeoffM said...

Wouldn't it be nice to see the EU, Britain, America and Russia tell the Arabs that if they do persist in persecuting Christians they will feel the full force of OUR armies?

Not even the Archbishop of Canterbury will speak out.

Sickening.

27 February 2011 at 08:31  
Anonymous len said...

David Cameron taking arms dealers into the situation in Libya will be seen by many as a cynical attempt to profit from the situation.
I would suggest that many others are taking are taking advantage of the situation by attacking Christians under the subterfuge of' putting down protesters'.
This situation could escalate into another'Bosnia.'

27 February 2011 at 09:21  
Anonymous Voyager said...

We need to know our place now.

Of course you do DanJ0

27 February 2011 at 09:30  
Anonymous pessimistopholese said...

I may be simply talking out of my hat here but my guess is that the strategic analysts in the backrooms of power rationally realise that war is going happen but we are engaged in a desperate (and ultimately pointless) exercise in crisis management in the forlorn hope that matters will resolve without recourse to war.

Appeasement was a similar policy....

The rights and wrongs of the issue are actually immaterial at this point given that the struggle ahead will be an existentialist one.

Our lords and masters have become far too cosy and snug with their sinecures and are desperate to keep feeding the crocodile with completely predictable results.

There is going to be a rather historical accounting (which the future histoy books will have a special name for all on it's own..."The Great Cull" or some such epithet) which will be as unfortunate in it's scope as it is in it's avoidability....


What do I know though.?

27 February 2011 at 09:46  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Appeasement was a similar policy....

It was actually a popular policy and had liberals not protested against the Hoare-Laval Pact it would probably have succeeded instead of giving everything to Stalin.

As for Egypt and its Army. There is a move to stir up disorder with Christians so The West accepts the need for the Army to stay in control as a dictatorship.

27 February 2011 at 12:07  

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