Sunday, March 13, 2011

14 Roman Catholic priests convert to the Church of England


Judging by the intense media focus on those Church of England clergy who are joining the Roman Catholic Church through the Ordinariate (eg here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here [and that’s not the half of it]), one might easily be persuaded that the traffic is all one way; that the path to salvation is Romeward; the Reformation reversed; and that all the ‘disaffected’ Anglican rats are leaving the ship, despite it not being holed beneath the waterline.

His Grace has commented on the phenomenon before (here), and on the Ordinariate (here and here), and has sent his sincere and best wishes to those who wish to join it. But Roman Catholic clergy were converting to the Church of England years before the Ordinariate was ever devised: movement has always been two-way, and ecumenical relations have probably been enhanced as a consequence.

So why the anti-Anglicanism (here, here, here and here)? Whenever have you read in the British MSM of Roman Catholic priests being received into the Church of England? When have you heard or read any reporting of the soteriological implications for Roman Catholic priests of swearing allegiance to the Supreme Governor, agreeing to abide by the XXXIX Articles or accepting the liturgical authority of the BCP?

It’s difficult to understand why this might be, unless coverage of the Ordinariate is being driven by a disproportionate number of Roman Catholic journalists who want to 'big-up' the event. Of course, there is a unquestionable difference in scale now that a couple of hundred members from a few parishes are converting en masse, but the media focus preceded this: it has been interminably conjectured upon day after day after day, and they seem to follow every converting vicar.

Because of the paywall, no links to The Times are possible. But if they were to report on the conversions from Rome to Canterbury, they would probably receive letters of complaint, or Ruth Gledhill would be accused of being ‘anti-Catholic’. Doubtless His Grace is a ‘bigot’ simply for raising the subject.

But the question of the complete media silence on this parliamentary question merits examination. One might expect biased, partisan or sectarian religion journalists not to write about it. But religion reporters are professionally obliged to inform us of the facts.

Hansard:
CHURCH COMMISSIONERS

The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked-

Former Roman Catholic Priests (Ordination)
6. Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): How many former Roman Catholic priests have sought ordination in the Church of England since 2005; and if he will make a statement.
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry): Figures held by the Archbishops Council show that in the past five years 14 former Roman Catholic priests have sought to be received into ordained ministry within the Church of England. As there is also discretion at diocesan level for acceptance into the ministry, not all candidates are centrally recorded, so the national figure is likely to be higher.

1 Mar 2011 : Column 163
Bob Russell: National newspapers suggest that there is a one-way road leading from Canterbury to Rome. I have no brief for the established Church-I come from good non-conformist stock-but does the hon. Gentleman agree that more should be done to make it clear to those Roman Catholic priests who are unhappy that there is a welcome for them in the Church of England?
Tony Baldry: I say to my hon. Friend that there is a welcome for everyone in the Church of England. He makes a good point; national newspapers give the impression that there is a one-way street for disaffected Church of England priests going to the Roman Catholic Church, but that is certainly not the case. There are very good ecumenical relations between the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church, as was demonstrated by Pope Benedict's recent visit to the UK. There is certainly two-way traffic, and long may that continue.
So, while dozens of journalists count every single Anglican soul who ‘comes home’, undermining the Established Church by ensuring the drip, drip, drip of those who swim the Tiber is trumpeted loud and broadcast clear, let us remember that there is a steady stream swimming against the tide, and that not all candidates are centrally recorded, so the national figure is likely to be higher.

Is it that there are insufficient Anglican journalists or neutral reporters to inform us of this?

Or is it that the Church of England simply doesn’t crow about it, because such boasting is vain, conceited and deeply un-Christian?

52 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uhm, or is it that the traffic to the Church from the CoE is significant whilst that in the opposite direction is negligible? In the interests of academic honesty at least a table of comparative numbers is needed.

Your reminding others of their duty to report 'the facts' would be somewhat more convincing if you did so yourself.

13 March 2011 at 09:09  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

I dare say it's that "Established Church continues to crumble" is a better news story than "Established Church boosts its ranks a bit". Whether that is part of a wider conspiracy or something is hard to say. We rarely see news stories like "People everywhere continue to perform acts of kindness and generosity daily" as they are not news compared with "Housing estate is a no-go area after dark". Perhaps it is just that.

13 March 2011 at 09:11  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Well spotted though.

13 March 2011 at 09:12  
Blogger Claire Khaw said...

Is it because they are tired of the joys of celibacy?

13 March 2011 at 09:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Overall, numbers moving from the RC Church to the C of E are probably higher; there are real issues for many priests in the RC Church about celibacy, but also about being forbidden to speak or teach on certain questions (e.g. the ordinaton of women). The move tends to be less high profile.

13 March 2011 at 09:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A couple of points:

1. The number of RC priests exercising ministry now in the C of E is one figure, the number of married former RC priests in the C of E but not exercising the ministry of their orders would raise the total.
2. Whilst there are probably more C of E priests going the other way at the moment, as a proportion of the total number of priests in each church the number coming to the C of E is more significant than it looks.
3. Another very interesting but difficult to ascertain statistic would be the number of Anglican ordinands brought up in the RCC who have converted and are training for ordination in the C of E. Anecdotally there are large numbers in this category including a large number of women.

13 March 2011 at 09:31  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

If it is about celibacy then it would be a bit cheeky to suggest that non-Christian gay people ought to be celibate. :)

13 March 2011 at 09:33  
Blogger Span Ows said...

Has the first anon comment (09:09) read the post?

Anyway, the CoE to RC is splashed everywhere as it undermines the established Church of the nation, BBC etc hate it so any kick in the teeth (even if the move is "only" to Roman Catholic) is worth trumpeting.

13 March 2011 at 09:47  
Blogger Harry-ca-Nab said...

The Reformation was an enforced conversion of the British people - enforced through fines, imprisonment, torture, taxation, blackmail, confiscations etc etc.

That people are coming back to Rome in significant numbers IS news.

....and good news at that.

The freedom to return is an essential rebalancing - people can make up their own minds and not feel cowed or bullied into accepting that with which they in conscience cannot accept.

13 March 2011 at 09:50  
Blogger Claire Khaw said...

Anglican Islam should become the new religion of the British.

I propose that the Church of England (infested by feminists, foreigners, Communists, Liberals and Socialists) be disestablished and tenders invited for another religion that is more fit for purpose.

13 March 2011 at 09:53  
Blogger Stravagantisimo said...

Widen you point of aim, Your Grace. The EU was created by Catholic Corporativists and remains remarkably faithful to their vision. A schismatic church associated with a separate national identity is anathema to all true believers in the Treaty of Rome.

13 March 2011 at 09:56  
Anonymous Flossie said...

Dear Your Grace, the difference is that the RC priests are leaving of their own free will, for whatever reason. Those joining the Ordinariate have been driven out by the refusal of the CofE General Synod to accommodate them.

13 March 2011 at 10:08  
Anonymous philip walling said...

Isn't it just that there's a little sifting going on?
There will be protestants in the C of Rome and catholics in the C of E both of whom think they might feel more comfortable in the other church.

But, where is the unity?
Surely we should seek to heal the great schism, not reinforce it.

13 March 2011 at 10:09  
Anonymous the recusant said...

Do be serious, 2 Conversions a year from 2005 is the basis for your 2-way street, the argument would be risible if it were not so ridiculous.

13 March 2011 at 10:23  
Blogger John Kenzy said...

Thank you again for correcting me yesterday 'Old Chap'. I can't really join in this discussion due to the fact that my heart is devoid of concern for religious dogma, but I am slightly interested in the way things are unfolding. I am more on your side (not that it's about sides for you), finding I have more empathy with the reformation of that horrible and ridiculous bunch from Rome.

I am no literary genius (as you discovered yesterday) but literature and art are what keeps me going in this unusual existence. I have a full (within my capacity) appreciation of history and the arts, and I am fond of reading the Bible even though I personally believe it to be nothing more than human struggle for answers. In saying this, I do believe that God can be seen at work in the hearts and souls of those whose story it is. I just personally fail to understand how anyone can walk into a building on a Sunday and wave their arms around and sing, and genuflect to lumps of wood and plaster, and sprinkle water here and there, and repeat weird, mundane mantras, convince themselves that white slithers of bread and ordinary wine have been magically transformed into blood and flesh; It's all primitive and embarrassing silliness...to me that is, but heck, what ever floats your boat man.

13 March 2011 at 10:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Flossie - pish! The CofE has bent over backwards for a Very Long Time. This is a clear case of taking your bat home because you're not getting you own way - and not used to not getting it.

13 March 2011 at 10:38  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Hey, Flossie, are you the Flossie from the old Ch4 News and BBOT site?

13 March 2011 at 11:36  
Blogger Windsor Tripehound said...

Flossie said...
Those joining the Ordinariate have been driven out by the refusal of the CofE General Synod to accommodate them.


They also seem to be under the misguided impression that the Church of Rome is some sort of democracy.

Let's see how much leeway they are granted if they attempt to ignore their new church's directions.

13 March 2011 at 12:38  
Anonymous Voyager said...

The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry

Isn't Tony Baldy also a senior Freemason - "Royal Arch" or something similar ?

13 March 2011 at 12:51  
Anonymous Flossie said...

Anon and Tripehound - you may not feel so smug when the feminization and homosexualization of the church is complete, and you find you are worshipping Mother God.

DanJo - I think the safe answer to your question is 'No' as I have no idea who BBOT are.

13 March 2011 at 12:55  
Anonymous len said...

I would suspect that when one appears before the Throne Of God the question will not be "what Denomination?"
But rather "What was your response to My Son?"

And I would suspect the chances of getting a true perspective of the Son of God are greater in Churches uncluttered with the 'traditions of men'.The entire stupendous Papal system is built on ONE verse of Scripture. Remove that ONE pillar and the whole system will collapse.House built on sand?.

So Christ is more easily found (by those genuinely searching ) in Churches and Denominations who have Reformed or jettisoned all religious dogma and returned to the basics, which is Christ Himself, the original 'rock' on which HIS Church is built!.

"the foundation of the apostles and prophets Jesus Christ himself, being the CHIEF CORNER STONE" (Ephesians 2:20).

13 March 2011 at 13:01  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Len said wisely as ever

There is wisdom in those words, my old fellow but is anybody paying attention through all their denominational angst.

It appears that people forget that Jesus declared that some will be surprised at His announcement that 'I never knew you'. Time for a bit of soul searching in the Scriptures perhaps, just to make sure we 'Understand' whose side we are on!

Old Ernst knows as much about Scripture as you, my fine fellow but thinks you say it so much better and kinder.

Your Admirer

Ernst

13 March 2011 at 13:14  
Blogger Anoneumouse said...

follow the etymology

One watches, one bashes, all want, some have, some do, some cannot.

Church (to swell)

13 March 2011 at 13:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Church of England Newspaper reported on this exchange in Parliament in its Feb 4, 2011 issue.

http://www.religiousintelligence.org/churchnewspaper/news/two-way-traffic-between-canterbury-and-rome-church-commissioners-report/

13 March 2011 at 13:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Good news from Brazil, too:

❛Brazil is home to more Catholics than any country in the world. But if the evangelical Christian movement continues to spread at the pace it has in recent years, statistics suggest that by 2022 Catholics will be a minority in a country that was about 90 percent Catholic in 1980.❜—The Washington Post

13 March 2011 at 14:25  
Anonymous len said...

Ernst,

Hearken! Lo, the sower went forth to sow his seed. And it came to pass as he sowed, that some fell upon the roadside; and it was trampled on, and the birds of the air came and devoured it. And some fell on the rocky places, where it had not much earth: and it sprouted up at once, as it had no depth of earth, but when the sun rose, it was scorched, and because it had no root and lacked moisture, it withered away. And some fell into the midst of the thorns; and thorns sprang up with it and choked it, and it produced no returns. But some fell into the good soil; and growing up and increasing, it brought forth results, some thirty fold, some sixty, and some a hundred fold. And when He had said these things, he exclaimed to them, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23.

13 March 2011 at 14:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am an ex Anglican Rector who is now a Catholic layman.
Personally I could not care less about the numbers going either way: the Bishop made this point to me about the huge numbers of disaffected Catholics rushing across to join his flock when I converted.
All that matters is sorting out where you really belong.

Well spotted though.

13 March 2011 at 16:38  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

Thank you for he information, I was not aware of the situation.
It is this partial reporting of news (or in this case non-reporting) which has made me decide to give up buying a daily newspaper when my present annual subscription expires. Over recent months, I have found various items of news on the web which I have found interesting, but which, as far as I am aware, were never reported either by the TV news channels or my my chosen newspaper. Certainly the first that I knew about the destruction of the Coptic churches in Egypt was from yourself.
Keep up the good work.

13 March 2011 at 17:26  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

Rome is currently haemorraging priests. Here in Europe the current trend in Rome to reverse the Second Vatican Council has resulted in large numbers switching to life outside the church and the movement for married priests and even the demand for female priests is driving more to look at their options.

Given that most of the British Press (and the BBC) is anti the CofE and broadly anything to do with our Christian heritage they certainly will not acknowledge that Canterbury is, in fact, seen as a very good option for those who wish to retain their catholic tradition and ministry, but can no longer keep their vows to Rome.

13 March 2011 at 17:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously Christ’s got it wrong when he appointed Peter (Matthew 16:18), just as he did when he instituted the Eucharist as His real Body, Blood Soul and Divinity. Like it or not the Bible is a Catholic book, it was written by Catholics for Catholics. As Christ’s words are not enough for some ,consider whether the Bible or the Church is the "pillar of truth" in the Christian religion

According to the Bible Itself, the Church is the "pillar of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), not the Bible. The Church was not created to hold up the Bible because the book was not settled for another 400 years and it was Catholic Bishops at a Council of the Catholic Church, under the directions of the Pope that finalised it. Finally if the Church is the pillar holding up the Bible, doesn't that mean that the Church is the interpreter of Scripture rather than the individual?

13 March 2011 at 17:56  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Len said

A greater tragedy is that nobody reads or understands the 7 epistles from Jesus Christ Himself to us as believers;

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. " (Revelation 2:7,11,17,29,3:6,13,22)

and people wonder why the churches and therefore believers stagnate because they heed not His Word.

If we do not know or understand, how can we help unbelievers in these latter days?

See anonymous 13 March 2011 17:56 going a%@e about T*t, for an example of a complete lack of knowledge even about how we got the Holy Bible proves my point. They confuse codified as opposed to the copies of the original letters of New Testament in the early churches being held in their possession from 65 ad or earlier. Sad?

Where is the historical mind that searches out the truth rather than accepting, Wily Nily, such false statements of fact from such places as the Head of Religious programming at the BBC, etc. Read the great archaeologists and discover the truth..Tragic!


Ernst

13 March 2011 at 18:25  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Well said Your Grace!
Every step of your way reveals the 'dumbification' practiced by the msm: the shroud they seek to weave about our ailing British culture. This, the Coptic Church, and the plight of the Russian sailors after Christmas --- all may never have seen Western daylight but for bloggers like you and euReferendum.

MSM motivation in the present case? One link in the chain surely relates to the banner overhanging al-beeb's Channel 4 website - a mosk, approached by a V-shaped flock of birds. The traditional use of birds as images for souls, and the super-position of the edifice carry as clear a statement of mission as any words. The CofE has no representation there.
So it is that the 'demoralisation' stage of cultural invasion wings its way through destabilisation and crisis, and towards normalisation of Untruth...*

Mr. Blofeld highlights another link. Deconstruction of education has diverted so many from the 'search for truth/Truth, and so deprived them of the traditional process. This now both to the neu journalists and to their audiences. Indeed, as Len has reminded us: let them see and hear who have eyes and ears.

Your Grace facilitates the process even as his predecessors did - from Wulfstan and beyond, to Alfred!




*Thanks to Bezmenov - and Mr. Singh, who posted that link many moons ago.

13 March 2011 at 20:26  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Sorry - I posted the above prematurely. End of 3rd paragraph should read: "This deprivation now informs both the neu journalists and their audiences." So then we need ways to do as Len has reminded us...

13 March 2011 at 20:34  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Non Mouse said 13 March 2011 20:26

'Deconstruction of education has diverted so many from the 'search for truth/Truth, and so deprived them of the traditional process.'

My dear boy, I have struggled to get my children to have a love of books (unless its trashy 'kiss and tell' autobiographies and then there is no stopping my daughter) whereas they were our very lifeblood. An escape into a world of imagination or knowledge.
Who can forget their first book, mine was The Thirty-Nine Steps by John Buchan. I still love it, a real 'Boy's' book..I WAS Richard Hannay!

Knowledge must now be gained quickly and with as little personal effort as possible.

Ernst still refuses to have information force-fed from anyone or any source and searches books etc, to enlighten himself and so arrive at an opinion that is HIS and not one given to him by others.

The independent spirit that a grammar education instills within a youth, perhaps?

Fondest regards

Ernst

13 March 2011 at 21:01  
Anonymous Kinsla said...

John Kenzy's verbose excuse for not participating is perhaps a little confusing. Among the primitive rituals he might finds silly, I wonder if he has ever looked into the archaic masculine need to caress female mammaries and bottoms, both of which are designed for other functional purposes, or has participated in any of those silly male rituals involving drinking a good deal of spirits which cause a regression to a childish state of mind. How about
the much sought-after ritual of
competitive kicking of a small striped inflated bladder up and down the field?

With his undoubted sensitivity to suchlike mantras, one must wonder if Kenzy is perhaps a master adept at some higher mystery such as Real Estate sales or dealing in used cars. Cheers from JW

13 March 2011 at 21:27  
Blogger LobotomySpoon82 said...

My first book was one of those floppy rag books with pictures, but I catch your drift Ernst. The Cruel Sea, Sherlock Holmes series, Hornblower, Greek and Roman myths and legends, Robin Hood, Tales of King Arthur, Ivanhoe, The White Company and many more. My favourite though has always been Beowulf which I first read when I was ten years old.

Liked your comment at 18:25 by the way.

13 March 2011 at 21:50  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

LobotomySpoon82(other moniker was just as good) 13 March 2011 21:50

Understand what you mean, my fine lad.
Ernst's very first book was one that he won for arithmetic, aged 6, called Orlando's (the marmalade cat's) Evening out by Kathleen Hale.

However, the first book that captured my imagination was The Thirty-Nine Steps.
Wonder what anybody else's first book was that had the same effect on them?

Ernst's mother probably wished that he had the same boyhood puberty problems as others, when caught with a torch under the sheets on her night-time reccy's to see if I had gone to sleep..as if (fortunately, naughty mags had to wait until much later, naughty Ernst..)
Didn't like girls until much later as Ernst went to an all boys school. Saw them at swimming baths but all they ever seemed to want to do to us boys was to try and drown us..uugh). I digress..

She would confiscate said torch and Ernst's hidden contraband of boyhood novels such as Treasure Island, Kidnapped, Robinson Crusoe, Three Musketeeers etc.
Mums ALWAYS knows where to look, don't they.

Yeah, I liked Beowulf, a true classic.

'Liked your comment at 18:25 by the way.' Thanks old chap.

Fondest regards

Ernst

13 March 2011 at 22:35  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

LobotomySpoon82 13 March 2011 21:50

My statement "Wonder what anybody else's first book was that had the same effect on them?"..Got me thinking..Hmm

Wonder if Srizals first book was 'Season's Rantings' a compilation from your favourite Islamic extremists.

I can see it now. Amazon.com --

"Srizals and others that bought, “Season's Rantings" also bought "Falafel" and "C-4" and "Glock 9mm". Buy all four and save! Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

Just a wild guess?

Naughty Old Ernst

13 March 2011 at 23:02  
Anonymous non mouse said...

You grammar school lads make me think! Colouring books and nursery rhymes came first: we memorised them. At a chapel, I learnt "There is green hill, far away..." But it induced nightmares, especially when Poe's "The Raven" appeared elsewhere. So that all stopped, fast.

Aged 7-10, I took schoolstories and mysteries from the convent library- Ellery Queen and Nancy Drew featured. I also played Cobweb in "Midsummer Night's Dream" and learned most of the play; and my Latin textbook from those days sits behind me still.

Then, Enid Blyton held sway, for years. "Tom Sawyer" was even more stupid than my brother, so that gave way to Dickens. When I was 10, "Pickwick Papers" made me laugh.

"Beowulf" - ah much later. I reckon that's best read in Old English: we miss so much in ready-made translations. But I still avoid the bloodiest bits...

Oh - and Ernst, we never saw any boys down at the Baths, so it wasn't me. Promise.

14 March 2011 at 00:58  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Non Mouse reminisced fondly for all of us oldies 14 March 2011 00:58

'and my Latin textbook from those days sits behind me still.'

Threw mine away as it was the source of many a caning for old Ernst from the deputy head, as Ernst had a fondness and talent for impersonating tutors and did an especially fine one of Latin tutor Mr Moise. The class loved it but he never saw the funny side of his buck teeth and spraying with saliva of his latin class when pronouncing. We all dreaded him coming near us when he was in full shakespearian flow ;
amo:I love
amas: You love
amat: He, She, or It loves
amamus: We love
amatis: You (plural) love
amant: They love

Ernst was a bit of a rascal but meant well.
Ah, Mark Twain and Charles Dickens and not forgetting Rudyard Kipling..Wonderful..Such happy days.

Thanks for the memories.
Sleep well, Non Mouse

Fondest regards

Old Ernsty

14 March 2011 at 01:43  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Hadnt really thought about this one but I can see there is somthing unsolvable about it , mainly in how one sees being a minister or priest.
I rather like lens first comment/answer in that if questions be asked when you arrive at the throne of god , it is unlikely to be which demonination thou didst belong. I rather hope he is merciful god in these matters as in heaven , no doubt any theological flaws will be all too obvious unto all.

I am quite sure that the churches so established all show somthing of gods purpose , to me the argument doesnt hold the same power. It is perhaps corruption that has shaped the churchs history , rather than problems in the christs story and revelation.

I also note that god works with indivduals when no denomination is present. It reaches into the human soul , realtionship perhaps more than membership. I would be doing both churches a great injustice if I could not thank them for there long worked scruitiny and interpretation , in that sense they have kept the teachings live and generational.

As for the diversity found today within UK churches , I dont agree with the current trend towards gay clergy , and I havent always found women clergy to see the relevance of a masculine interpretations, but I can understand how they can see the womans role doesnt get properly presented. A local priest is a socialist , who is on a mission , but that is nothing new in the CofE , as it often is calling to help the poor (somewhat misguided in my view but its not a major disagreement , as the traditional service is still used). There is perhaps the urge to modernise , and I am guilty of this one in my early journey, in that critcising the traditional service as being a turn off , to augment the new , with modern instruments and putting ancient and modern in store cupboard , for just modern , was perhaps more a belief in physcology than a reverence for the bible, in the final analysis .

Fishers of men and not diviners of beat combo rating. The word is where we find god , that I am sure has not changed since jesus ministered.

Father is an apt word for ministers , it perhaps leaves the question of wheres mother , but never leaves in doubt that faith is about growing .

I have found the CofE to be of a usefull approach in teaching the bible and exanimining our wordly surroundings , that is not to say if visiting a church , I have sighed and wondered if the minsiter was having an off day or felt some despair that somthing beautiful I had heard from a source I thought illuminated a passage , was missed .

It is a shame to me that the more contemplative aspect of the church , which was once so common , is now challenged by rapacious modernity , perhaps people today have subliminal expections about church , in this more instant world . Few will reacall the world of no shops on sunday , come to think of it I miss Alistair cook , who in 10 mins made me feel I had travelled the globe with a wise eye .

The search for a better society , always seemed to me to be rooted in those sundays and times that were contemplative and considerate . That is my interest in my question if qualitaively we have gone down the wrong road too far , my anger is that it is not so obvious to others .

14 March 2011 at 01:50  
Blogger Mark in Spokane said...

Speaking as a Catholic layman, I am delighted to hear that there is a two-way street regarding Anglican-Catholic clergy conversions. We tend to get orthodox, theologically literate clergy who are willing to take a risk to follow the call of the Gospel, and we tend to get rid of theological liberals and heretics (ala Matthew Fox) who tended to want to undermine the Catholic Church from within. Those liberal clergy are undoubtedly happier in the Anglican Church (or its US variant), where they can preside over same-sex unions, preach in favor of abortion rights and artificial contraception, openly support women priests, etc.

We, on the other hand, get priests who are happy to preach, say Mass, and among other things defend the Catholic Church's radical ideas like, oh say, all human beings have a right to life.

I would call that a win-win, except that I don't really thing that those of you on the other side of the Tiber are really winning here...

14 March 2011 at 04:49  
Blogger Saga Louts Admin said...

Let’s hope for your sake that they are not all paedophiles.

14 March 2011 at 09:39  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

As I understand it Roman Catholic Priests are not ordained into the C of E but "received" as priests. There is no re-ordination.

It would be interesting to know what the 14 now think about the Catholic Faith. Are they signed up to the new docrines as currently peddled by some or just more comfortable with the Anglican Patrimony.

The reverend lady in charge of the Episcopal Church in America was brought up Roman Catholic. She is now viruently opposed to much of the Catholic Faith as she has embraced the new doctrines hook line and sinker!

14 March 2011 at 10:59  
Anonymous len said...

As a Christian( a follower of Christ ) should it really matter what Christian denomination one belongs to, if all profess to be followers of Christ and to abide by, be instructed by, guided by, the Word of God.? And should we belong to a denomination all?.
It obviously does matter(which denomination,( to many at least )and the reasons for all the different denominations should be carefully looked at!
So what method do we use to differentiate between them.?
The obvious answer must be the Word of God itself.
So(like the Bereans) we must examine each denomination in the Light of the Word of God,and see how they shape up(or not). The problem is that no one could believe ALL these contradictory doctrines in the different denominations because truth does not contradict itself! This is the real issue. Jesus teaches truth, and truth does not contradict itself!. Denominations contradict one another. Therefore, they cannot all be teaching truth, and they cannot all be following Jesus!
So the only sure guide is the Word of God itself!

There are many churches ,many denominations but there is only ONE body ,Whose head is Christ.

14 March 2011 at 20:00  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ len (20:00)—should it really matter what Christian denomination one belongs to

Matthew Parris seems to think so:

❛Christianity, post-Reformation and post-Luther, with its teaching of a direct, personal, two-way link between the individual and God, unmediated by the collective, and unsubordinate [sic] to any other human being, smashes straight through the philosophical/spiritual framework I’ve just described. It offers something to hold on to to those anxious to cast off a crushing tribal groupthink. That is why and how it liberates.❜

14 March 2011 at 20:25  
Blogger LobotomySpoon82 said...

"LobotomySpoon82(other moniker was just as good)"

Thanks Ernst. Then again I do love the saying, 'The man who can laugh at himself will always be amused', lol.

Non Mouse, I don't know if you were referring to me also there but just in case, I have to say I wasn't a grammar school lad. Weren't many of those knocking about where I grew up, lol.

14 March 2011 at 21:28  
Blogger LobotomySpoon82 said...

Ernst, considering what you said earlier about education and knowledge you'll probably find this article quite interesting:

Technology, Superficiality, and Fascism

14 March 2011 at 21:33  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

LobotomySpoon82 14 March 2011 21:33


"Then again I do love the saying, 'The man who can laugh at himself will always be amused', lol." DITTO, in large writ.

Thanks for the link, my boy.

I found it fascinating and evidence like this has always made old Ernst convinced that this sort of disintegration within the education system has not happened by chance but by a connived, systematic destruction of the 'individual', to think and express himself/herself as one.

Brilliantly expressed in this article by the author was ;
"George Orwell was right: Dissolving the linguistic competence by necessity leads to an erosion of mental power and the rise of self-created fascism.
Fewer words, less mental space, more prejudices: key components of fascism." INDEED.

Thanks for thinking of Old Ernsty, my boy.

Fondest regards

Ernst

14 March 2011 at 22:37  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

LobotomySpoon82 14 March 2011 21:33

Ernst has always been ever so slightly eccentric but this is our (Britain's) greatest gift to the world, for without it we would be mere Yanks, Aussies, Kiwi's or Cannucks.
It is to be embraced, not denied or placed under a bushel as it is a part of our heritage.

Ernst is horrified to think what his life might have been like if he had not developed an unquenchable love for Laurel and Hardy, Marx Brothers, The Goon Show, Round The Horne, Morecambe and Wise, All Ealing Comedies and other offshoots such as I'm All Right Jack (1959), Private's Progress (1956), Lucky Jim (1957 and one of my all-time favourites, 'School for Scoundrels', that had Terry Thomas, Ian Carmichael, Alistair Sim, Dennis Price, Peter Jones and John Le Mesurier. British Casting Comedy Heaven..

I am of the opinion that His Grace is a lover of British Comedy as well as he frequently displays such a wicked wit when turning an argument on it's head, with an incisive turn of phrase.

What a legacy that goes unnoticed and unloved by this generation..Sigh!

Wistful Ernst

Ps

Len Said 14 March 2011 20:00

Sorry old boy, did not miss your wise comment but was fondly remembering what life was like in what appears to seem like a different world now.

Ernst agrees fully with all your comment stated. Well said, my fine old trooper.

14 March 2011 at 23:24  
Anonymous Perpetua said...

I would think a backstroke across the Tiber would occur if a priest wished to marry and have a family.

The Anglican Church provides accomodation free education for the children and a stipend
for a priest whearas conversely if a married Anglican priest with a family defects, the Catholic Church does not offer similar arrangements.

I have often thought that the celibacy ruling of the Catholic Church is more to do with economics rather than anything else.

15 March 2011 at 13:34  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld and Tiddles said...

Your Grace

Ernst just had a serious chuckle at this blogs expense.

Whilst doing a J R Hartley and looking for old photos of 'yours truly', Ernst discovered that the Benedict-Williams.jpg is attached to Ernst Stavro Blofeld on a google image search.

How far-fetched is that.

As Benny Hill sang 'and it tickled old Ernsty'.

E S Blofeld

16 March 2011 at 00:01  

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