Wednesday, March 02, 2011

Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan's only Christian minister, assassinated for opposing Islamic blasphemy law

"As a Christian, I believe Jesus is my strength. He has given me a power and wisdom and motivation to serve suffering humanity. I follow the principles of my conscience, and I am ready to die and sacrifice my life for the principles I believe,” said Shahbaz Bhatti, on a recent visit to Canada.

There is nothing more to say.

Here is his recent interview with France 24, following the assassination of Salman Taseer.


Blogger Gnostic said...

A brave man who opposed people being persecuted and killed by blasphemy laws.

The religion of peace, if you can't live with it without question or criticism then you can't be allowed to live at all.

2 March 2011 at 10:19  
Anonymous martin sewell said...

A tragic loss of a brave and faithful man.

I note the contrast between his stance and the muted response from our leaders over the Munby Judgement.

Is the Equality Act our Blasphemy Law?
Obviously nobody is being killed or imprisoned for their Christian beliefs, but the underlying intolerance is the same.

2 March 2011 at 10:42  
Anonymous Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! This reminds me of the fate of one of our Barchester canons, Dr. Mustafa Pogrom. In a spirit of multiculturalism and whatnot, my Lord's chaplain Mr Slope persuaded the bishop to appoint the first Moslem prebendary in the entire Anglican Communion. At first we found he fitted in so well, though the call to prayer at Matins was a bit oppressive on the old ear drums. Archdeacon Grantly was against of course, but what does one expect from 'the old guard'? Things went swimmingly until Dr. Pogrom set up a madrassah in the cloisters and, with what can only be described as evangelical zeal, whipped up the Mother's Union into a frenzy, inciting them to throw stones at Signora Neroni and calling her nasty names. This was too much for dear old Bunce of Hiram's Hospital, who set about Dr Pogrom with a rolled up copy of the Jupiter during the Feast of St. Sayeed of Luton - very nasty. Who would have thought intolerance would rear its ugly head in sleepy old Barchester? Mr. Bunce has been sectioned, and Dr. Pogram now lies in the churchyard, a martyr to the new Anglican spirit of inclusion. Such a loss to the ministry.

2 March 2011 at 10:54  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a coverage of the murder of Shahbaz Bhatti

2 March 2011 at 11:03  
Blogger Massachusetts Bankruptcy said...

"And I will not feel fear because of these (death) threats because I follow Jesus Christ who has given his own life for us." Man, here is some Acts of the faithful being recorded here. God bless him and those like him who are in these times and situations of resisting to the shedding of blood.

Bankruptcy Services

2 March 2011 at 11:05  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...


I saw that in the news this morning. A very sad event and situation, and a very brave man knowing they would attempt it. Murdering scumbags.

2 March 2011 at 11:26  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

A very brave man and someone the Pakistanis should look up to as an inspiration. The problem is though, whilst they are in the shackles of Islam, they are not capable of seeing the light.

What astounds me is we give this currently oppressive Religion, in dire need of Reformation, free reign in this country. Madness!

2 March 2011 at 12:39  
Blogger MFH said...

Pakistan todat - western europe tomorrow.. It will come im my lifetime

2 March 2011 at 13:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church

2 March 2011 at 13:09  
Blogger Windsor Tripehound said...

@Mrs Proudie of Barchester

I'm amazed to note that you think this a suitable topic on which to post a facetious comment.

A Christian murdered; what a laugh!

2 March 2011 at 13:10  
Anonymous Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Humble apologies, clumsy satire...of course I am appalled by the murder of a Christian in Pakistan
mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

2 March 2011 at 13:38  
Anonymous Tacitus said...

Any death, no matter what religious persuasion, should be mourned. It is a tragic loss of human life.

Pakistan is a nation in turmoil and regretably this will be far from the last murder we will see coming from this troubled land

2 March 2011 at 13:55  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

The Prophet Mohammed was notably thin-skinned about criticism and ordered the murder of three poets who wrote verses that Mohammed construed as insulting. They were the Jewish poet Ka’b bin al-Ashraf, killed for insulting Muslim women, and Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan, who had both mocked Mohammed’s claims to prophethood. When Asma bint Marwan was murdered, her unborn child died with her.

As Mohammed is the perfect man, his intolerance of criticism (including, of course, blasphemy) is the benchmark for all Muslims. The killers of Shahbaz Bhatti have done well in the eyes of Allah.

2 March 2011 at 14:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As Anonymous so aptly quoted (Tertullian) above, the blood of the martyrs is indeed the seed of the church. I felt so humble and inadequate hearing this brave man speaking of the strength of his faith in the risen Lord. Edward Sutherland.

2 March 2011 at 14:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and what is the UK Government doing? Proposing to double aid to Pakistan to over £400 million. This in a week when we are about to sack 11,000 members of our armed forces. Utter madness.

2 March 2011 at 14:56  
Blogger peggy38 said...

His murderers will be showered with flowers and Valentines.

If I was Muslim I would apostasize out of abject shame. But instead we will get the usual sophistry and denials from the so-called moderates who will claim that this is not "real" Islam. You know the "real" Islam that has somehow never existed in this world at any time in history.

But its "real" because they say so.

I am getting beyond sick of this. Although I am not a pacifist, my instinct has always been to live and let live and to value life above all. But I am sorely tried to stay true to that these days. My baser self is itching to see some reciprocation to see some Muslims being made to suffer in the same way. May God have mercy on me and give me strength to never cheer for or condone such a thing. But its is getting very hard...

2 March 2011 at 15:38  
Blogger joe six-pack said...

This brave man is at the front end of this war.

You must submit. OR ELSE.....

"In Islam, women can become married or become public property."

Islam is not known for its choices.

Do or die. (Well, they do allow you to live if you pay.)

Islamic governance and nationalism is at war against us. This brave man is why we need to fight back.

2 March 2011 at 15:48  
Anonymous Paul said...

Thus tolerant Islam. This is a tragedy. May God bless his soul !!

2 March 2011 at 15:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the US this morning, NPR mentioned that the States are posting naval forces near the Libyan coat. FRANCE and Britain are together sending some sort of aid - at which point I switched off.

That's what the British government's doing. Subjugating us to frogland and giving all the money we haven't got to foreign fighters.

Tighten your belts, Christians. You must learn to share.

2 March 2011 at 15:51  
Blogger prziloczek said...

So much for Islamic Tolerance.
This is a war between two faiths.
May the best man win!

I wonder which weapons we will choose?

2 March 2011 at 16:03  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Johnny Rottenborough @ 14:27 :

Thanks for that. Such neat portrayals ought to be printed on match-boxes : 1 of a series of ... ? (many hundreds?)

peggy38 @15:38 :

Sometimes one's ''baser self'' is instinctively correct.

2 March 2011 at 16:05  
Anonymous Sov_Res said...

I would like to call upon the shadow minister and UK Pakistani Muslim, Sadiq Kahn, to vocally and unequivocally condemn the assassination of Shahbaz Bhatti Pakistan's only Christian minister.

As the Shadow Lord Chancellor and a privy councillor, I am sure his swift condemnation of this atrocity will bring at least some consolation to Minister Bhatti's grief-stricken family.

The Muslim Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, whose parents are from Gujar Khan, Pakistan would also do well to issue immediate and loud condemnation of this disgusting religious murder.

As indeed should clamorous (and swift to vituperative condemnation) champions of diversity and religious tolerance, like British Pakistani Muslim Mehdi Hassan.

Mr Hasan wrote in a blog post for the New Statesman in January of this year, entitled,“Why do they pick on us Pakistanis?”:

"Muslims can no longer do their best impressions of ostriches and keep their heads in the sand. Denial is not an option. That such murders have become regular occurrences in the world's second-largest Muslim country is sickening and appalling, and needs regular and repeated condemnation...

...I've long believed that we British Muslims must be at the forefront of campaigns against takfiri and jihadist violence, against killings, shootings and bombings in the name of Allah, the Prophet Muhammad and the religion of Islam... if not us, who? If not now, when?"

Here here.

We are waiting.

2 March 2011 at 16:20  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The partition of India is to blame for this, I would rather see a united Greater India under Hindu Nationalists than these breakaway Islamic states.

Hindus do not have all the time in the world for christianity I know but atleast they root a people and land with its true heritage and culture

2 March 2011 at 16:25  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Bred in the bone:

I rather think Mohammed is to blame for this.

2 March 2011 at 16:51  
Anonymous Voyager said...

When the Governor of Punjab was murdered for seemingly the same reason I witnessed an interesting conversation between two Pakistani Muslims in their 20s.

One was bemoaning yet another such murder in such a godforsaken country to hear the other splenetically say he deserved it for insulting "The Prophet"

It was quite amazing to hear two such contrary views expressed in public by two Muslims I supposed to be "friends"

2 March 2011 at 17:19  
Anonymous not a machine said...

It is very sad , I am struggling to find prayer but we should .This is wrong path for Pakistan and now they have another memorial to consider, on if there country can stand and say it is not descending into lawlessness . It is no good being niave terrorism is funded and not visible.

let us hope we are not entering an age of stark decisions based on the folly of Labours era of spin.

2 March 2011 at 17:25  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I can account for Mohammeds whereabouts, he was selling me cheap fags he keeps under ther counter.

2 March 2011 at 17:26  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Oswin (16:05)—The murderer of Asma bint Marwan was concerned that he had committed a crime but Mohammed would hear none of it: ‘Two goats wouldn’t butt their heads about her.’

2 March 2011 at 17:43  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Johnny @ 17:43

A regular, nice bloke eh?

2 March 2011 at 18:11  
Anonymous Paul said...

The world is going mad...

2 March 2011 at 18:15  
Blogger LeucipottomySpoon82 said...

A politician displaying moral and physical courage. Someone to be applauded. He's a lot happier now than we are.

2 March 2011 at 18:28  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

This minister for minorities could not find in that conscience of his the will to mention the Pakistan Government is another US backed regime using its troops to subjegate its own Countrymen.

"Minister for Minorities" why do those words make me cringe.

2 March 2011 at 19:39  
Anonymous bluedog said...

This communicant notes that Muslim apologist Mr Srizals offers no apology.

The risk to Western politicians who venture an opinion on Islam or who seek to thwart the progress of Islam is suddenly very clear.

2 March 2011 at 20:05  
Anonymous Voyager said...

The partition of India is to blame for this, I would rather see a united Greater India under Hindu Nationalists than these breakaway Islamic states.

The Muslim League under Jinnah had other ideas....Gandhi had the kind of fudge that the British have nowadays:

My whole soul rebels against the idea that Hinduism and Islam represent two antagonistic cultures and doctrines. To assent to such a doctrine is for me a denial of God

but once Muslim Identity becomes significant in any area it must ensure its absolute control of territory......Bradford, Bury and Oldham be warned

2 March 2011 at 20:15  
Anonymous len said...

Apparently the blasphemy laws in Pakistan are being used to proselytise among Christians who are threatened 'convert to Islam or be judged under the blasphemy laws'.
I am not surprised at the level of hate from Muslims to Christians for Islam is the antitheses of Christianity.

2 March 2011 at 20:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I await the day when the forces of the liberal inclusive pluralists and the peaceful religion finally lock horns.

2 March 2011 at 20:57  
Anonymous LCF said...

Sadly, to me, the most moving and humbling part of his message was only broadcast in full once today (to my ears) on the BBC. It reads:

"I belive in Jesus Christ, who has given his own life for us. I know the meaning of the cross, and I follow the cross; and I am ready to die for a cause."

I wish I had confidence that I could have such a steadfast faith, sir.

2 March 2011 at 22:58  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

"Minister for Minorities" why do those words make me cringe.

2 March 2011 19:39

Maybe because you have also read books such as 1984, and therefore recall such terms and titles such as The Ministry of Truth, which were in reality, The Ministry of Lies.

Which should also go along with other Ministry's such as The Ministry of Defense, The Ministry for Women, The Ministry of Education, The Ministry for Children, The Ministry of Justice, and so on, and so forth.

IMO, we are all being set-up, no less our Muslim brothers.

'My whole soul rebels against the idea that Hinduism and Islam represent two antagonistic cultures and doctrines. To assent to such a doctrine is for me a denial of God.'

And so it should, for to my knowledge all of the worlds religions are at a fundamental level, very much like all human beings. Which is sprung from the same stock, partakers of the same nature, and sharers of the same hope.

Therefore how come there would seem to be ever more (religiously based or otherwise,) divisions in the world, this in spite of country's such as this one and Pakistan being caught in possession of such dodgy institutions as a Ministry for Minority's?

The answer is simple, and is laid down for our guidance and instruction in the Volume of The Sacred Law ( The Holy Bible.) However if we fail to read it, or do so properly, then publications such as 1984, and Animal Farm will do just fine for most people.

The WORLD has become victim to mass mind control.

There you go, you have your answer, the question is, what are you going to do about it? Always assuming that there actually is anything you can do about it.

For IMO the only thing you can do about it is to stop being a victim yourself, by finally starting to think as a fully conscious human being, instead of a mindless lamb to the slaughter.

Religion has been used in this way, and for the exact same reason, many times in the past. These people only know a certain amount of tricks, so why not use one that has worked so very well, as well as so many times for them in the past?

It was only 20 years ago that it seemed that reasonably soon this type of murderous scam would be impossible to achieve again. The truth is, it has, it is, and you have not seen nothing yet.

For there are almost infinitely great powers in this world, that will stop at absolutely nothing at all, to achieve there ends. There is not a child they will not murder, even their own. There is not a religion they would not utterly subvert and then pervert, even their own. There is not a country, or nation they would not betray, especially their own. There is not a lie they would not tell, even against themselves. There is not a friend, brother, or parent they would not gladly or otherwise sacrifice to retain what they believe is their God given right, and duty, to rule over the ultimate destiny of mankind.

3 March 2011 at 00:46  
Anonymous IanCad said...

What a brave man! Such a noble testimony. He surely saw it coming and was steadfast. Such an inspiration to all who profess the Christian faith. May he be in the Kingdom.

3 March 2011 at 01:22  
Anonymous Atlanta Roofing said...

These sublime Catholic martyrs are specifically instructed NOT to preach in Algeria, Somalia and other places where they have been murdered. There only witness is the beauty of their souls as revealed in their loving actions as nurses and such. In Pakistan, for instance, evangelicals secretly convert Muslims but the Catholic church carefully follows the Islamic Sharia law and tries to ‘cooperate’ with them to be allowed to ‘exist’, distancing themselves from non-Catholics who tell Muslims the truth. Over one and a half billion Muslims consciously kept in ignorance of the message of Jesus Christ by the collusion of the Catholic Church with ‘Islamic Sensitivities’.

3 March 2011 at 05:49  
Blogger srizals said...

Maybe if Iraq was not invaded and countless numbers of Muslims killed on daily basis as a result, no one would be tempted to kill him in the first place. Did I forget to mention the drones and high tech Christian's outpost swarming all over Afghanistan? Oh, the almost daily bombings by heartless drones in Pakistan may contribute to his death too. Oh, well, as they say a thousand to one would be the rule of a day for a war torn country. An eye for a thousand eyes would definitely made men blind, with hatred.

Yes, it is a sad thing on how he meets his demise. It is even sadder for the anonymous that died in the hands of the crusaders in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Nobody even knew their names and their babies that died with them.

3 March 2011 at 22:55  
Blogger srizals said...

And updates on the changing bible,

"In the few verses where almah appears, the word clearly denotes a young woman who is not married but is of marriageable age. Although almah does not implicitly denote virginity, it is never used in the Scriptures to describe a “young, presently married woman.” It is important to remember that in the Bible, a young Jewish woman of marriageable age was presumed to be chaste. [Emphasis theirs]"


3 March 2011 at 23:22  
Blogger LeucipottomySpoon82 said...

Oh no. They've changed a word in the bible and it now says what it originally said in the Hebrew. My world has fallen down. What will I ever do? Oh woe is me.


They changed the word to 'virgin' when they compiled the Septuagint two thousand years ago, due to the fact that 'Young woman' probably didn't have the exact same connotations to non-Jews at the time. If you understood the issues of translation into modern English you'd also understand that it doesn't matter at all.

And re your previous comment, what's even sadder is all the millions upon millions that have died at the hands of the Jihadists since the 7th century.

3 March 2011 at 23:53  
Blogger LeucipottomySpoon82 said...

And I hope you don't mind, but I answered your question because Len has probably gone to bed, and His Grace appears to have been having an apoplectic fit whilst watching BBC's Question Time.

4 March 2011 at 00:03  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Atlas shrugged said... "Maybe because you have also read books such as 1984, and therefore recall such terms and titles such as The Ministry of Truth, which were in reality, The Ministry of Lies"

No Atlas I can honestly say I never read such books, although I am aware of their gist.

I just seek guidance from the holy ghost and the holy ghost tells me whats bullshit and what is not.

Thats the reason I stopped going to church, because the holy ghost would not stop swearing and it got emberracing at times.

One the first churches I attended after recieving the holy ghost was a brethren church and their bible meetings were very clued up on the black church, shadow government stuff, how freaky and I took no notice back then considering them conspiracy nuts.

4 March 2011 at 06:13  
Anonymous len said...

One thing religion cannot do is produce life.In fact if you take a serious view of religion all it can do is produce death and misery.
Jesus Christ is the only one who can give Life.
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.(I Corinthians 15:45)
Many of the control systems(religions) devised by men can only produce death on many levels.
Shabaz Bhatti joins the long list of Christians Martyrs re-united with their Saviour to partake of Eternal Life.

4 March 2011 at 06:57  
Anonymous len said...

LeucipottomySpoon82 was quite right I had gone to bed!

I give you the answer to your question from your own 'Book'

'The Angels said, ‘O Mary! God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations…’ ‘O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the Hereafter, and one of those brought near God. He shall speak to the people in infancy and in old age, and shall be of the righteous.’ She said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?’ He said: ‘Even so; God creates what He wills. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, “Be” and it is.’” (Quran 3:42,45-7)

4 March 2011 at 07:28  
Anonymous len said...

You have obviously been visiting'contradiction sites 'on the web, whilst doing this you must have observed that they are quite a few regarding Islam.

The dead Sea Scrolls (found at Qumran)actually verify the accuracy of the Bible.
And regarding the Bible there are online Greek and Hebrew translations with which to compare present day translations.

4 March 2011 at 07:44  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Maybe if Iraq was not invaded and countless numbers of Muslims killed on daily basis as a result, no one would be tempted to kill him in the first place.

You know that is patently untrue ! Christians have faced persecution and murder in Pakistan for decades. It is a gangster-state which uses murder of Christians rather like the Tsars used pogroms of Jews.

There are Pakistani Christians in Britain who also face harassment from their Muslim countrymen. It is written into the DNA of some people in Pakistan to be criminal thugs and psychotic killers coddled in a political system that exudes corruption and complicity

4 March 2011 at 08:37  
Anonymous Voyager said...

the crusaders in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan

If only they were Crusaders fighting demonic hordes....but alas they are not. The invaders of the Indian Subcontinent were ARAB Muslims in 715 AD and Turks from Central Asia.

Muslims are great at projecting their attitudes onto others. It is Arab Imperialism that brought Islam to India and it is Arab Imperialism that funds Islamic Imperialism today because Islam is an Arab tribal doctrine and Muslims are footsoldiers of the Arabs

4 March 2011 at 08:43  
Blogger LeucipottomySpoon82 said...

And here is another thought to mull over Srizals:

Chinese say Christianity is the reason for the West's success

4 March 2011 at 15:32  
Blogger srizals said...

True, Len, there are sects distinctively different from the mainstream. Could you list the percentages of Christians according to their sects and numbers? The mainstream Muslims are Ahlus Sunnah wal jamaah, the minority groups are Syiah (which has 3 more distinctive groups), Ahmadiyyah. Only one nation of Islam is Syiah. As for Ahmadiyyah, they are considered astray as they have other final prophet after the actual final prophet. And other smaller sects are not even Muslims anymore, like the Sikhs and Baha’is. Who are the mainstream Christians?

Voyager, take a voyage in history or go back to the time of the dinosaurs. It would help improve your history skills, I hope.

Yes, the Arabs, Turks, Afghans and the Moghul invaded the mighty Hindu Rajputs and so almost did Alexander the Great. Muslim Moghul that unlike the pagan Mongol, were keen to build instead of obliterate, prospering the lands of the suicidal Hindus that had forgotten about their Kalki Avatar, but instead fell in love with Suttee and dehumanizing Caste system while blaming others for mentioning about it.

Could you please share your resources of the millions that perished in the Muslim conquest? Reliable one hopefully, since not enough true historians dared to suggest so. Hope you're not a deliberate liar. A confused liar I hope. My proof, the Hindus are aplenty nowadays as they once were, far outnumbering the decimated Christians and Jews. Could they have recovered in such a speedy way from an unchecked holocaust? Get real.

May I present a proof why I don't think that Muhammad s.a.w. was just a man.

Thawban – may Allah be pleased with him – that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said, “Two groups of my umma Allah has protected from the hellfire: a group that will conquer India and a group that will be with ‘Isa b. Maryam – ‘alaihimas- salat was-salam.” Reported Ahmad, an-Nisa’i, and at-Tabarani

4 March 2011 at 15:44  
Blogger srizals said...

The prophecy on India was fulfilled while another one is pending, hopefully I would still be alive then, with all the nuclear bombs lying around in the hands of those who are scared of being killed, but not scared of killing, of course.

India prospered until the British Raj came and massacred more Hindus and Muslims and used them as slave soldiers throughout its empire. Hindu nobles even allied themselves with Muslim rulers. Could you honestly believe they would do so with their exterminators, in the age of the clashing swords?

"Communally focused critics of Mughal rule have often ignored how particular caste categories offered their services and allegiance to Mughal rules, and received tangible benefits in exchange. Kayasthas in particular experienced upward mobility as they rose from being scribes and junior record-keepers to hold important administrative posts, and achieved a social rank comparable to court Brahmins. Mercantile caste categories also had a stake in the success of Mughal rule. Hindu money-lenders and shop-keepers did quite well in the prosperous Mughal towns, and a majority of the top revenue administrators under the Mughals (even during the reign of Aurangzeb) were either Hindu Banias or Brahmins."

4 March 2011 at 15:46  
Blogger srizals said...

Hello, hello, testing 1,2,3.

4 March 2011 at 16:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're afraid of any Muslim becoming hostile towards you, outshame him out of himself by this saying from his prophet. Since the frequency of the attacks and the daily death tolls are nothing similar as suffered by the Afghanis, Iraqis and Pakistanis in the hands of the likes of you, I'm guessing the probability is quite low. Hope you do have a peace treaty with the Muslims, though. And if it is not too much to ask, could you please get out from their lands asap. And do take along your fancy weaponry that you used to kill their children.

And he said, "He who kills a non-Muslim who keeps a peace treaty with the Muslims will not smell the scent of Heaven, though its scent can be traced to as far as a march of 40 years"
[Imam Ahmad and Al-Bukhari in Al-Jizyah]

I don't recall anyone dared to abrogate this hadith, Johnny. Maybe some self-appointed scholars of Islam dared to abrogate them for you. Do you have the authority or even the knowledge to do so?

Len, Jesus speaks Aramaic, not Hebrew.

"One of the most striking Aramaic sentences found on the lips of Jesus in the Gospels is: eli eli lema sabachthani (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 uses eloi instead of eli). The sentence is then translated into Greek by Matthew and Mark, with the English meaning: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This, as it turns out, is a quotation from Psalm 22:1, which reads in Hebrew: 'eli 'eli lama 'azavtani. (Here you can see, by the way, an example of the similarity between Aramaic and Hebrew.) The fact that Matthew and Mark have Jesus speaking in Aramaic does suggest that this line was remembered by the early Christian community in its original language, namely, Aramaic."

Read more:

4 March 2011 at 16:19  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Srizals old lad, you can't pull off the same joke twice.

A thought though: if it your intention to show Islam in a kindly light, to explain and delineate the benefits thereof, then I must inform you that it ain't working. Rather, you tend to confirm all the worst fears; indeed, you promote said 'worse fears' to an even greater level.

You engender a deep suspicion of the Asiatic mind, confirming all manner of prejudices.

Is this your intention; or are you merely combative?

4 March 2011 at 17:14  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (15:44)—In The Story of Islamic Imperialism in India, Sita Ram Goel writes:

❛Islamic imperialism came with a different code—the Sunnah [tradition] of the Prophet. It required its warriors to fall upon the helpless civil population after a decisive victory had been won on the battlefield. It required them to sack and burn down villages and towns after the defenders had died fighting or had fled. The cows, the Brahmins, and the Bhikshus invited their special attention in mass murders of non-combatants. The temples and monasteries were their special targets in an orgy of pillage and arson. Those whom they did not kill, they captured and sold as slaves. The magnitude of the booty looted, even from the bodies of the dead, was a measure of the success of the military mission. And they did all this as mujahids (holy warriors) and ghazis (kafir killers) in the service of Allah and his Last Prophet.❜

4 March 2011 at 17:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Johnny, you forgot that the Hindu and the Muslim both united and fought the British Raj, strange isn't it? They started to kill each other since it was British policy to divide and conquer.

"Muslim and Hindu rulers alike joined the rebelling soldiers and militant peasants, and other nationalist fighters. Among the most prominent leaders of the uprising were Nana Sahib, Tantia Tope, Bakht Khan, Azimullah Khan, Rani Laksmi Bai, Begum Hazrat Mahal, Kunwar Singh, Maulvi Ahmadullah, Bahadur Khan and Rao Tula Ram. Former rulers had their own grievances against the British, including the notorious law on succession, which gave the British the right to annex, any princely state if it lacked "legitimate male heirs"

But they were betrayed by some of the local princes who kissed up the British Company.

"Although the rebels fought back heroically - the betrayal by a number of rulers such as the Sikh princes, the Rajasthani princes and Maratha rulers like Scindia allowed the British to prevail. Lord Canning (then Governor General) noted that " If Scindia joins the rebels, I will pack off tomorrow". Later he was to comment: " The Princes acted as the breakwaters to the storm which otherwise would have swept us in one great wave". Such was the crucial importance of the betrayal of the princes. The British were also helped by the conservatism of the trading communities who were unwilling to put up with the uncertainties of a long drawn out rebellion."

Strangely the nationalist Hindu royalties and Muslim agreed to appoint a Mughal Sultan as the Emperor of India. Do you know about that, Johnny?

Oh, you may find some disturbing picture of looting the dead as you have mentioned but it was done by someone else.

Oswin, there are atrocities committed by Muslims, I won't deny that. But Islam and Muslims are not the same. Muslims are those who follow Islam, the percentages of their adherence to Islam would differ and thus the different attitude manifests itself. But the millions said to be slaughtered mercilessly were not conclusive and valid in terms of historical findings and accepted as historical records. It is still shrouded in a guessing game.
We must also have a basis of comparison as a guide for our moral perceptive. We can’t escape comparing all the recorded atrocities done by all of us in order to distinguish the magnitude of the events and their significance.

Taj Mahal and Alhambra are the remnants of Islamic beauty that shone in the land that once was. Could you share the glory of history that Christians left behind in the lands that they had ruled?

5 March 2011 at 00:52  
Anonymous Sage said...

Blasphemy laws in whatever country are absurd. Blasphemy laws of any form need to go.

5 March 2011 at 00:52  
Anonymous len said...

The "Christian world" and the Islamic world contrast sharply in other ways as well, from the disparate condition of human rights and civil liberties to economic status. An astonishing 70% of the world's refugees are Muslims - usually seeking to live in Christian-based countries.

While Western societies take seriously "scandals" such as Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo (where no one has actually been killed), Muslims routinely turn a blind eye to their own horrible atrocities, even those committed explicitly in the name of Allah. The Muslim world has yet to offer a single apology for the tens of millions of lives consumed by centuries of relentless Jihad and slavery.

These sharp differences are almost certainly rooted in the underlying religions, which begin with the disparate teachings of Jesus and Muhammad...

5 March 2011 at 07:51  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ srizals (00:52)—the Hindu and the Muslim both united and fought the British Raj

And the moment the British left India, the Hindus and Muslims reverted to their default positions and fought each other. By the way, try clearing your cookies if you’re having problems with posting comments.

5 March 2011 at 14:06  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Anonymous @ 00:52: is that you Srizals old prune?

If yes, then I have no idea what you are on about. My question was ''is your intention to show Islam in a kindly light?''

5 March 2011 at 18:13  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Blasphemy laws in whatever country are absurd. Blasphemy laws of any form need to go."

We finally got rid of ours but only very recently.

6 March 2011 at 13:03  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Johnny Rottenborough said: "And the moment the British left India, the Hindus and Muslims reverted to their default positions and fought each other."
Then what happened? Two countries born from the same tree. One goes off to be the most populous democracy on earth, and a leading economic power, the other develops into a failed state, and becomes a hotbed of militancy which affects the rest of the world.
What is the main difference between the two? Answer - Islam.

6 March 2011 at 23:24  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Kiwi (23:24)—Well said.

7 March 2011 at 00:33  

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