Thursday, April 14, 2011

David Cameron: immigration has led to ‘discomfort and disjointedness’


Discomfort and disjointedness? Maybe that’s the case in Witney, the Prime Minister’s constituency; or even around Chequers at the foot of the Chiltern Hills, where he has his country residence. But in many towns and cities the length and breadth of the country, you’d be hard-pressed to know this was England. Immigration has led not so much to discomfort and disjointedness, as suffering, strife and sectarianism.

The speech is widely trailed as the Prime Minister’s ‘most forthright speech on the issue since he became Prime Minister’. Perhaps His Grace is racist, or bigoted, or immoderate, or unreasonable, or all of these, for he finds it somewhat less than forthright and more than a little discursive.

Is it really adequate to refer to ‘Muslim ghettos’ as ‘disjointedness’, when we have cultural and social apartheid and some areas virtually run by Hizb ut-Tahrir? Is it ‘disjointed’ to have mosques promote a conscious rejection of western values? Is it merely ‘disjointed’ that in many places the prevailing attitude is that sporting a flowing Arab robe symbolises your religiosity while your piety is linked to the length of your beard?

And how do you tell people who are afraid to venture out of their homes that they live in area of ‘discomfort’? How can you say to young girls who are systematically groomed, raped and murdered by Asian men that they have suffered ‘discomfort’?

Mr Cameron reminds us that between 1997 and 2009, 2.2million more people came to live in this country than left to live abroad. He says: “That’s the largest influx of people Britain has ever had, and it has placed real pressures on communities up and down the country. Not just pressures on schools, housing and healthcare – though those have been serious – but social pressures too.”

Labour may well be to blame for this, and for allowing extremist parties such as the BNP to flourish by dismissing legitimate concerns about mass immigration as ‘racist’. But the Prime Minister’s plan to cut annual net immigration from around 200,000 per annum to around 50,000 is too little, too late. Not least because a few years later these 50,000 will have had families and we are back up to 200,000 anyway.

Or is it racist to point out that immigrants have babies?

Or is it just the word ‘breed’ that causes difficulty?

The Prime Minister calls for a ‘sober’ debate, which is ‘clear-headed about not only the benefits of immigration but also its impact on our public services, communities and society’.

And so His Grace is happy to make his ‘sober’ and ‘clear-headed’ contribution.

Immigration has been and can be of enormous economic and social value to the UK: we are enriched by many aspects of diversity. But our communities are diverse not only in ethnic terms, but also in their religious understandings and traditions, and also in their cultures and languages. The arrival of asylum seekers, refugees and migrants is the principal cause of the higher proportion of multi-faith parishes, and these are exemplified by the existence of ‘parallel lives’ which weaken community cohesion. There is no singularity of culture or religion, or unifying notion of morality or truth, and this complex pluralism demands a politics which grasps the inherent tensions and potential volatilities – religiously, culturally, economically and socially. Immigration and the advent of other religions, coupled with the process of secularisation, have forced change. We cannot wind back the clock: we are where we are.

But the Prime Minister's pledge to cut the numbers entering Britain to tens of thousands, rather than hundreds of thousands, is not deliverable. Yes, you can halt those coming from the sub-continent; those who fought with us through two world wars to defend our way of life against German tyranny. But those who are members of the EU are free to come and go as they please. And they do more coming than going. Our borders are open to all who dwell within the European Union, and to all who manage to swim or smuggle themselves into it: when they reach the shores of Lampedusa, they are in Dover.

We can agree that ‘for too long, immigration has been too high’, but 50,000 per annum is still too high. Try teaching a group of 30 children in which 20 of them speak no English, and among them are represented eight different languages. Is it any wonder that the other 10 ‘white, working class’ children never achieve their potential? Try getting an appointment with a doctor or a dentist in some areas (not to mention a local authority house), only to find that the world and his dog is in the queue before you.

What welfare benefits does the Prime Minister believe he can withhold from EU immigrants that will not transgress their human rights? What discrimination does he believe he can manifest that will not fall foul of Labour’s equality and diversity legislation? Unless the Prime Minister intends to scrap the Human Rights Act, he will find some of his ‘zero-tolerance’ rhetoric will fall foul of the courts.

Not all, of course. He is quite right to reiterate the imperative of zero-toleration of some religio-cultural practices like forced marriages, which he promises to ‘stamp out’. But he needs to also to stamp out ‘assisted’ marriages, for in some communities the ‘assistance’ is nothing but bulling, intimidation and coercion, which, in some sad cases, results in an ‘honour killing’. He is right that ‘cultural sensitivity’ cannot be allowed to stop the Government from acting. But Human Rights and equality and diversity legislation certainly will.

Community is forged through commonality. When there is no compulsion upon immigrants even to learn English (for that is to discriminate), there can be no integration. Where there is no integration, there is suspicion. And that suspicion leads to fear and unrest. This is not a new phenomenon, and neither is it exclusively black or brown versus white: in some areas, the civil war has been and is between Muslims and Sikhs, perpetuating the conflicts of the Moughal Empire. A cut from 200,000 to 50,000 will do nothing to address the cause of this 'discomfort'. The damage has already been imported and actively perpetuated through state-induced multiculturalism.

The Prime Minister boldly promises: ‘But with us, our borders will be under control and immigration will be at levels our country can manage. No ifs, no buts. That’s a promise we made to the British people. And it’s a promise we are keeping.’

His Grace does not mean to be obtuse, but in what sense and to what extent are our borders under our control when they are part of the EU’s acquis? How can the Prime Minister promise, ‘no ifs, no buts’, to limit immigration when we are treaty-bound to permit the free movement of peoples? How can he promise to restrict immigration when it is not his promise to proffer?

England and the United Kingdom have changed, and changed forever. We are an island which is over-stretched, over-burdened and overcrowded. We have no sovereign control of our borders in the way that Australia, New Zealand or Canada do, for we signed it away long ago. We are now simply reaping what our politicians have sown.

And still they go on sowing.

124 Comments:

Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

Are you waking up to how much of an inveterate liar Cameron is, and the grave mistake you made voting for him?

PS You forgot to prefix the abbreviation 'BNP' with the word 'odious', but you did get 'extremist' in though, so I'll give you 2 points for trying.

BTW, As you expertly point out the utter nonsense that Cameron is spouting, it will take some extreme measures to reverse to carnage inflicted over the last 50 years.

14 April 2011 at 10:45  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

HG makes the case for voting UKIP.

14 April 2011 at 10:50  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Amen Cranny! Can't add much to that ... but I will anyway!

When did the idea that "diversity" was a strength become received wisdom?

In Genesis 11:6 God says,"Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

So what did he do? He gave them "diversity". Diversity doesn't bring strength but division & dilution. Strength comes from when the "people is one" ... not in ethnicity but certainly when they speak "with one voice" and "with one vision"

"Diversity Coordinators" & their ilk merely weaken, dilute & divide cultures & communities. Divide & conquer.

14 April 2011 at 10:52  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Ever grateful for this appraisal of the salient points.

"...the Prime Minister's pledge [on numbers]... is not deliverable".... "The damage has already been imported and actively perpetuated through state-induced multiculturalism."... "to what extent are our borders under our control when they are part of the EU’s acquis?"

In Mr Cameron's case it is not so much losing the plot as never having had it, and let us add "in retrospect" to save the faces of those who are now confessing how mistaken they have been. And Yes the other main parties are even worse.

14 April 2011 at 11:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A shame Mrs Thatcher did not realise this on 14th Feb 1989 when we realised that a lot of British citizens would rather obey the Ayatollah Khomeni than British law.

14 April 2011 at 11:16  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

Your Grace.
Spot on, Bullseye, Gold.
The problem is there for ALL to see, but Mr Cameron and his ilk refuse to accept the answer.
As long as We are members of the EU, our borders are not our own, to control, regulate or decide who comes or goes. The dog next door could tell him the answer, as could the people of this country.
We Need To Leave the EU!.
How long before the tumult of voices reaches the ears at the top of Westminsters Ivory towers.
As you rightly say, the suggested 'answers' are too little too late. The issues involved have to be addressed at source. First turn off the water before you repair the burst pipe!. Until we have a leader who listens to the wishes of the electorate and acts according to those wishes we are destined to repeat this endless cycle of a shambles until this nation self destructs or is destroyed by internal strife or the Almighty Himself.

14 April 2011 at 11:18  
Anonymous Sov_Res said...

Bravo.

14 April 2011 at 11:20  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld Ambassador to Vedics and other medical professions + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

A very fine post detailing the situation we are faced with and the near impossible way of proceeding with a policy that will be attacked from many sides.

No doubt, it will all descend to mere rhetoric.

However Ernst was surprised (should he be?) to hear that Vince Cable said the policy was not 'coalition agreed' and that 'it will fuel extremism'.

So now we are unable to have an immigration policy because of the feelings and potential for violence from a minority of extremists who despise this nation anyway.

Tis truly a madhouse we live in.

E S Blofeld

14 April 2011 at 11:23  
Blogger Lakester91 said...

EU immigration is probably not quite so destructive, as they are predominantly Christian. At least they share something with this country.

And, racist though it might sound, they are also white. Though race isn't actually a problem in itself, it is far harder to 'become' English whilst still outwardly bearing the colour of another country. There is nigh on nothing to distinguish the son of a Pole and an indigenous Briton. On the other hand, multiculturalism seeks to encourage people not to adopt their host nation, which is easier to avoid if you feel you don't belong.

14 April 2011 at 11:28  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

I love plain speaking, and this post fits the bill perfectly.

14 April 2011 at 11:29  
Anonymous TheGlovner said...

Typo methinks:

"Is it really adequate is it refer to ‘Muslim ghettos’ as ‘disjointedness’,"

14 April 2011 at 12:01  
Anonymous MrJ said...

If Mr V.Cable is a self-confessed oppositionist let him go back across the floor (where he would be better placed to oppose the Murdoch smash and grab). Would Sir Augustine "Gus" O'Donnell, KCB and the GOD Squad- for- coalitionism allow this?

And another thing, Libyans are moving this way so its time to hear more of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

14 April 2011 at 12:37  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Why does Cameron give such a speech in Hampshire ? He gives very different ones in Bradford a city under siege where the Councillors have even turned the city centre into a replica of divided Berlin.

Ask why BD postcodes are redlined for car insurance and why 17 insurers refused to underwrite for problems which can be localised to BD4, BD8 etc.

Why are the waiting lists for hospital outpatients so long ? Why do Poles and Subcontinentals have unreported knife battles which the local paper censors into oblivion ?

Disjointed is a nice word, it is so different from besieged or occupied or oppressed or threatened, intimidated. Why do you need to choose taxis with utmost care if a woman ?

I doubt David Cameron will find the answer in Hampshire

14 April 2011 at 12:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This issue will only be resolved when we stop saying we have an immigration problem, we do not, we have a colonization problem. The multiculturists have effectively prepared the way for the balkanisation of England, with the dreadful future that will hold.

All politicians have done this, but the institutional anti English racism of the labour party has accelerated it, and probably prevented the chance of a peaceful resolution.

14 April 2011 at 12:42  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Well, we are where we are now that's for sure. There's no point the various fringe parties advocating repatriation as most people won't go for that, thank goodness. So, what do we actually do if this is an issue? Not that I think it's much of an issue around here in the Leicester area. I love the diversity it all brings, but hey. I suppose pulling out of the EU will give us control of the borders again, allowing the State to reasonably invite EU workers to return home. But the genie is out of the bottle as far as British homogeneity is concerned so we're going to have to get used to diversity and change.

14 April 2011 at 12:49  
Anonymous iain said...

Wouldnt it be wonderful if the likes of Carswell, Cash, Redwood had the guts to leave the safety of the Conservative fold over the EU.

Alas, they have the courage.

14 April 2011 at 13:18  
Anonymous iain said...

havent!!

14 April 2011 at 13:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous @14 April 2011 12:42

All politicians have done this, but the institutional anti English racism of the labour party has accelerated it, and probably prevented the chance of a peaceful resolution.

Looks like we will need the UK Border Agency to operate around english borders such as leicestershire and only allow those out and in who are delivering takeaway curries etc.

Think of the jobs it will create!

14 April 2011 at 13:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

Mr Cameron said in his speech:

‘Take this question of Europe. Yes, our borders are open to people from other member states in the European Union. But actually, this counts for a small proportion of overall net migration to the UK. In the year up to June 2010, net migration to our country from EU nationals was just 27,000.’

He has not lost the plot.

He never possessed it in the first place.

And as you suggest, Britian’s borders stretch from Dublin in the west; to Bucharest in the east; from Helsinkin in the north – to Lampedusa in the south.

There is nothing Berlusconi and Cameron can do about immigration: it is not a British nor Italian competence. That is why Berlusconi is contemplating issuing visas to refugees. These visas are not required by EU nationals.

As in the Roman Empire all roads led to Rome. So in the EU all roads lead to Brussels – and then Croydon, London.

His analysis is correct. There is severe and increasing damage to the infrastructure. No one is suggesting (it is irrational to do so) that the damage can be repaired.

And what is his solution? Not to give us a referndum on the Lisbon Treaty but a referendum on AV.

Let ther be no mistake and mark this well: if AV comes in so will perpetual coalition government. And that will lock us into the EU.

14 April 2011 at 13:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

Mr Cameron said in his speech:

‘Take this question of Europe. Yes, our borders are open to people from other member states in the European Union. But actually, this counts for a small proportion of overall net migration to the UK. In the year up to June 2010, net migration to our country from EU nationals was just 27,000.’

He has not lost the plot.

He never possessed it in the first place.

And as you suggest, Britain’s borders stretch from Dublin in the west; to Bucharest in the east; from Helsinkin in the north – to Lampedusa in the south.

There is nothing Berlusconi and Cameron can do about immigration: it is not a British nor Italian competence. That is why Berlusconi is contemplating issuing visas to refugees. These visas are not required by EU nationals.

As in the Roman Empire all roads led to Rome. So in the EU all roads lead to Brussels – and then Croydon, London.

His analysis is correct. There is severe and increasing damage to the infrastructure. No one is suggesting (it is irrational to do so) that the damage can be repaired.

And what is his solution? Not to give us a referndum on the Lisbon Treaty but a referendum on AV.

Let ther be no mistake and mark this well: if AV comes in so will perpetual coalition government. And that will lock us into the EU.

14 April 2011 at 13:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In one breath,

"The Prime Minister calls for a ‘sober’ debate"

And in a former - still standing - breath, Cameron declares UKippers are,

"Closet racist"

So where's the contrite apology, negating the damage already done, and helping to create the atmosphere for said 'sober debate'? Where's the evidence he has genuinely changed....can't see any....so....?

Until the arch mud slngers are silenced with legislation in equal strength, to the laws that allow them to effortessly shut down any 'sober debate' - e.g. Enoch Powell - forget it. As I write this, Lord M. Howard is lecturing on Radio 4 about "the evil BNP". He cites no evidence, apart from smears and middle-class innuendoes, accompanied with a knowing look, and a tap on the side of the nose, are smears evidence?

The only way to stop this oppressive rot, is via the statute book, Howard and his lefty ilk will only cease their snide evidence free shut-downs, only if he faces prosecution. That's how they became post 1970s, 'beautiful people'.

Alternatively, scrap all verbal 'race crimes'. It needs re-balancing, one way or the other.

14 April 2011 at 13:46  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

The last time immigration reached the same proportions was when the Angles and Saxons arrived and set about a process of eliminating native British Males and forced marriage to Saxons or Angles for the girls. They drove Christianity into the western extremities (Something the modern Dawkins, Hawkings, Pullmans et al like to overlook) and "Anglisised" the place - looks like their descendants in B-Lair and Liebor have deliberately attempted to emulate to gerrymander their way into perpetual power.

14 April 2011 at 13:53  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Well said, Your Grace. It seems churlish to pick holes but I cannot let ‘we are enriched by many aspects of diversity’ pass without comment.

‘In the presence of [ethnic] diversity, we hunker down. We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it’s not just that we don’t trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don’t trust people who do look like us.’ The words of Robert Putnam, summarizing his study of diversity in the United States. He found that trust or ‘social capital’ was at its lowest in the city he describes as ‘the most diverse human habitation’ in history, Los Angeles. This article adds that the study, ‘the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.’

Not that his findings should come as any surprise; human nature has not changed since Aristotle wrote in Book V Part III of Politics: ‘At Byzantium the new colonists were detected in a conspiracy, and were expelled by force of arms; the people of Antissa, who had received the Chian exiles, fought with them, and drove them out; and the Zancleans, after having received the Samians, were driven by them out of their own city.’

Communities and nations function best in the absence of diversity; our own history is testament enough to that.

14 April 2011 at 14:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One for you Johnny or Engliash Viking.14 April 2011 14:07

http://www.youtube.com/embed/A3YQANdvvbY

Before its removed!

What this country can expect.

14 April 2011 at 14:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another fine example in the art of 'constructive criticism', no punches pulled, and almost the entire delivery based on facts and solid evidence, not emotion.

But, in Oct 2010, one T. May of the the Conservative party enacted New Labour's Equality Bill.

This was not mandatory, it could, just as easily have been discarded, so it's technically more than Labour's Equality Act.

Sorry to quibble so pedantically, but detail can be so extremely relevant.

BBC 3 July 2010

"Coalition to stick with Labour's Equality Act

Home Secretary Theresa May said the Equality Act, passed in April, would be implemented in October."

Which it was.

14 April 2011 at 14:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

His Grace has , typically , made a sterling effort to crytallise the salient points in one concise post.
This topic,however,requires an entire book.

On a lighter note, Mr.Blofeld I was delighted that your new , elongated handle STILL allows room to credit your moggy,Tiddles.
I,too,have a cat. His name is Tommy and he's not very nice.

Marcus Foxall

14 April 2011 at 14:29  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Good God - even by your standards Cranmer this is way, way over the top!

It is riddled with so much Little Britain that I'm at a loss where to start. Here is are some of your more outrageous comments.

"Is it ‘disjointed’ to have mosques promote a conscious rejection of western values?"

Depends on the values they're rejecting. Lets face it, it's open season in the West as far as morals are concerned. The only taboos remaining are incest, peodophilia and beastiality.)

"Is it merely ‘disjointed’ that in many places the prevailing attitude is that sporting a flowing Arab robe symbolises your religiosity while your piety is linked to the length of your beard?"

Better than the half-naked, drunken, decadence that marks our worship at the shrine of alcohol and nightclubs and our invasion of Europe in the summer months.

"How can you say to young girls who are systematically groomed, raped and murdered by Asian men that they have suffered ‘discomfort’?"

The lowest one of all! It's not just Asian men! The rise in sex trafficking should tell you something about the morals of British men who make this such a lucrative trade from Asia and East Europe. Stag-do's to Eastern Europe and Holland where part of the ritual now is shagging a young victim! A young woman under threat of death to her and her family. To say nothing of the sex tourism to Asia.

No. The problem with the West is its corruption and decadence as much as the influx of immigrants.

Dangerous and disgraceful hyperbole.

14 April 2011 at 14:41  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Anonymous (14:19)—Thanks. A sobering illustration of how ‘ordinary people’ pay the price for the treachery of politicians.

14 April 2011 at 14:50  
Anonymous Voyager said...

in the West as far as morals are concerned. The only taboos remaining are incest,

West ? Belgium has no law against incest...which probably explains much else

14 April 2011 at 14:56  
Anonymous MrJ said...

There's denial and denial, and forever "promises, promises". The gist of some of the above amounts to: "the odious deniers, and the more odious pretenders".

So here is a word check. 1) and 2) seem to be a good match, for meaning but not necessarily for evidence based fact, while 3) could be more controversial, but there is a trend going that way.

(This has more to do with the present topic than may seem at first glance.)

1)"odious: arousing or deserving hatred or repugnance"
"Origin: 1350–1400; Middle English < Latin odiōsus, equivalent to od ( ium ) hatred, odium + -ōsus -ous"

"odium: A condition of disgrace, usually as the result of some form of vile conduct."

2) "pre·tend: Verb_Speak and act so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact it is not: "I pretended I was asleep"; "she pretended to read". "

"Adjective_Not really what it is represented as being; used in a game or deception: "the children are pouring pretend tea for the dolls"."

[useful mnemonic: "ods and -ends"]

3) The Deniers, book, 2008, subtitled "The world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution, and fraud".

---Naive question: Does anyone remember "Monbiot's royal flush: Top 10 climate change deniers: My shortlist of people who have done most for the denialist cause - in playing card form"?

Conclusion: there are forms of untruthfulness worse than statistics. (Hard to believe, I know.)

14 April 2011 at 15:04  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ The Last Dodo (14:41)—The lowest one of all! It’s not just Asian men!

❛… researchers identified 17 court prosecutions since 1997, 14 of them in the past three years, involving the on-street grooming of girls aged 11 to 16 by groups of men. … In total, 56 people, with an average age of 28, were found guilty of crimes including rape, child abduction, indecent assault and sex with a child.

Three of the 56 were white, 53 were Asian. Of those, 50 were Muslim and a majority were members of the British Pakistani community. Those convicted allegedly represent only a small proportion of what one detective called a ‘tidal wave’ of offending in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Greater Manchester and the Midlands.❜—Daily Mail

14 April 2011 at 15:07  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Hi Grace seems to be finally getting what a criminally inadequate disaster Cameron is. Welcome to the club.

English Viking: ...how much of an inveterate liar Cameron is...

You mean lying invertebrate, shurely?

:0)

14 April 2011 at 15:26  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Johnny Rottenborough

You've actually proved my point!

Go get the statistics on child sexual abuse within 'normal' British families. Go get the statistics on 'normal' British men in sex rings. Go get the statistics on 'normal' British men who rape and murder women.

Of course the crimes by Asian men are appalling. But do they indicate a general trend in the Pakistani community towards the rape of young girls? And can it be linked to Islam?

14 April 2011 at 15:30  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Unlike Mankind who God gifted with a real jaw, capable of biting and chewing, the Ogre being of an ethereal nature, can only make sound bites.

The Ogre carries you off to La La Land on the sweetness of his voice but on arrival there, the enchanted victim sees their is no substance to La La Land.

Beware!

14 April 2011 at 15:56  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

The more I read this blog the more of a not-so-closet racist I think the author really is.

We're a nation in transition adjusting to a diminishing world economic and military position. We're part of the EU. There is no longer a christian hegomony in cultural terms.

Wake up. Adjust and stop banging on about an idealised, romantic image of some past halcyon days that never truely existed. Our culture has always been 'multi' in one form or another. A little while ago it was the Irish who were bringing ruin, then the West Indians. Now it's Islam and Europeans. Who next?

Never a word on here about the insidious nature of Hindu or Buddist cults that have been infecting these shores with their philosophies since the 1960's. Philosophies that have internally corrupted through mantras of 'peace and love', 'self-fulfillment' etc.

Offer positive solutions - not partially selected 'evidence'.

14 April 2011 at 17:07  
Anonymous malvoisin said...

The Last Dodo

Do you want to include honour killings and female genital mutilation in your last statement?

On the matter of rape, the Nightstalker who was black is estimated to have attacked over 600 people, it has been admitted under the freedom of information act all the victims were white.

Agreed that we have white rapists and child molesters so the question is, why import more?

14 April 2011 at 17:11  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

I cannot get my head around how naive The Last Dodo is:

Vicar's wife in Birmingham

14 April 2011 at 17:13  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Very good Your Grace, but I can't help wondering what your next post will be; you have a tendency towards balance(?)or do I mean 'playing the Devil's advocate'? Hush my mouth!


The Last Dodo @14:41 :

What you have to say of our 'home-grown' problems is all too shockingly true!

Howver, it was Maoist thought/policy (adopted by the USSR too) to destroy an enemy country from within.

Both China and the USSR believed that unfettered immigration to Britain would destroy the 'spirit' of the British Nation from within. To this end they worked assiduously.

To what extent are our current shameful standards, be they moral, educational, financial, or whatever, are a reaction to the hopelessness engendererd by immigration?

A study of crime statistics alone, would seem to indicate something of the above. Our less fortunate youth speak, and dress, as black, American 'Gangstas' - our whole society is riddled throughout with mistrust, alienation, racial sectarianism and, the disaffected off-spring of previous immigrants.

Old Mao Tse-Tung got it right, it is just as his Little Red Book said it would be. Our country has been damaged from within, and our politicians, right or left, colluded from the onset, either deliberately, or through stupidity and/or a lack of courage.

We all know what happened to those few who spoke-out against this trend towards self-destruction.

Mr. Dodo, those whom you accurately delineate/characterize, don't care, because no one cares. Thus, when no one cares, and no one listens to you, why then bother?

Hey, this isn't just MY theory; the Maoist regime and the USSR spent countless millions/billions inculcating this faux liberalism.

The terrible irony being, the Maoist/Stalinist/whatever ideologies have fallen, but their evil works prevailed!

Now, we suffer, immigrants suffer, the country suffers ...

14 April 2011 at 17:26  
Anonymous Voyager said...

But do they indicate a general trend in the Pakistani community towards the rape of young girls? And can it be linked to Islam?

There is violence and violation endemic in Pakistan society and the replication of the Subcontinent in any area where Muslims make up a significant proportion of the population follows as night follows day.

As for Islam...the same characteristics are exhibited in Germany by Turks, in The Netherlands and Sweden by Muslims of different origin.

Islam lacks a moral code and feeds on raw appetites especially with regard to women. Muslim women are not veiled because of women, but because their men can be bestial.

I don't know where The last Dodo lives but he certainly lacks contact with daily events in Northern mill towns

14 April 2011 at 17:30  
Anonymous Voyager said...

A little while ago it was the Irish who were bringing ruin,

They certainly destroyed Boston, Mass replacing its educated elites with Irish crime syndicates and corrupt politics....there is a whole literature on the destruction of Protestant Boston

14 April 2011 at 17:32  
Anonymous Voyager said...

1847 115,000 Bostonian Puritans were invaded by 37,000 Irish Catholics....and In Boston, newly elected Mayor James Michael Curley boldly announced in 1914: "The day of the Puritan has passed; the Anglo-Saxon is a joke; a new and better America is here." Curley dominated Boston politics for nearly forty years. He freely used patronage as a way to reward loyalty and get Irish votes, filling various city departments with his supporters. The Irish delighted in taking civil service jobs with their steady paychecks and long-term security. In cities with big Irish populations, police and fire departments often became staffed by Famine descendants.

That's how the Pilgrim Fathers gave way to Irish gangsters like the Killeens and Mafia families controlling liquor and refuse and unions

14 April 2011 at 17:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the impact of the Barcelona Declaration of 1995, which gave effect to the 'European-Mediterranean Project. You have heard of it? Well you wouldn't be unusual in that respect. Just ask Mr. Google to enlighten you.

14 April 2011 at 17:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not specifically relevant, but not that far off, this Radio 4 programme rates as one of the most definitive renderings of the unspeakable discomforts our politicians suffer with :

BBC R4 The Sea Gangsters

It explains in no nonsense terms, how 2000 Somalians are getting the better of the entire West, including, of course, America.

Additionally, 40% of global oil supplies go through this part of the Indian Ocean, with the situation rapidly reaching - too dangerous status, a 'no-go' area for commercial shipping.....40% = major ramifications.

It's a total gem - and only 5 days left before it disappears. Don't miss it.

14 April 2011 at 17:38  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Gnostic :

''lying invertebrate'' - priceless!


LoBo @17:13 : ''naive'' - it's rather a nice word, in its way, suggesting of 'innocence' - but what depths it has!

Thinking on, if prefixed, it is seldom ever other than:'foolishly' or 'dangerously' ... something the Birmingham Vicar's wife discovered too!

14 April 2011 at 17:44  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

In Leicester, I'd be much happier walking around Belgrave Gate, Melton Road, and perhaps Highfields than the Braunstone Estate or the St Matthews Estate (even before the increase in Somali refugees).

14 April 2011 at 17:51  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ The Last Dodo (15:30)—We already have Muslim domination of organized crime and prisons so the sex trade would be the logical next step.

As for linking the rape of little girls to Islam, the Prophet Mohammed married one of his wives, Aisha, when she was six and deflowered her at the age of nine; Muslims regard him as the perfect man and seek to imitate him. Aisha tells her story in a hadith:

❛My mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. … Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, ‘Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and good luck.’ Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me [for the marriage]. Unexpectedly, Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.❜—Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234

14 April 2011 at 17:52  
Blogger English Viking said...

Anon 14:19

Thanks for that. I am afraid I am already painfully aware of the consequences of the treachery of the last 50 odd years.

Last Dodo,

You won't be the last one for very long, not with your attitude. Not where I come from, anyway.

14 April 2011 at 17:54  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Myself at 17:26:

Please forgive the belatedly noticed typo's!

Further, I had meant to add : 'racial contaminants leading to our own moral demise' ... fit it in, wherever seems applicable.

14 April 2011 at 17:54  
Anonymous Old Grumpy said...

I'm sure that His Grace is delighted to read of the annoyance that this posting has caused The Last Dodo.

Obviously this Lady/Gentleman is of the persuasion that "nothing but good has come of multiculturalism," and "immigration is good for the economy", and similar pious platitudes that have been used by the liberal left to foist the greatest confidence trick on the indigenous white population that the country has seen since 1066.

Might I cordially request of The Last Dodo where we were invited to vote on whether we wanted
(a) mass immigration
(b) a multicultural society
(c) a multiracial society

I don't recall seeing any of those in any party's manifesto

Nor do I recall Mr A Blair asking us if we felt that it was a good plan to open the floodgates of unfettered immigration during his term of office, whilst denying that he had done any such thing.

This blog doesn't require anyone to give notice of residence, but I do hope that The Last Dodo actually practices what he/she evidently preaches, and lives in any of the 99% black/asian areas of what was once England.

I commend him/her to Hall Green near Birmingham, and suggests that he/she visits it on a Sunday afternoon. Business there is brisk, but if you walk down the High Street, you will not find many, is any, white people. There will be many hundreds of Muslim Asians, in traditional cultural dress. You will hear little or no English. The shop fronts are written exclusively in Urdu or Hindi (or whatever) There are beards a-plenty, and burkas abound. It could be anywhere in Pakistan, except that it's in England, though you'd never know it. And we have people like The Last Dodo to thank for this state of affairs. I assume that he/she can see nothing wrong with it all, of course.

I'd also suggest to him that he's a Little European. It's usually those people who always throw the Little Englander label around as soon as anyone dares to question their hidden agenda.

I'm right behind his Grace on this one. (Yes, Last Dodo, I know this makes me a racist BNP thug in your eyes, and no I'm not saying that, but he/she probably will.)

Cordially yours
Old Grumpy

PS It's not my intention to start an argument here, I haven't the time for it. The Last Dodo will probably wish to respond with all manner of annoyances, however I'll never get to read it since I'm making the conscious decision not to read this thread again. So please feel free to say what you like, good Sir/Ma'am. The alternative is that we have a good old-fashioned flame war for a week, which will achieve nothing, and I've better things to do having made my point.

14 April 2011 at 18:06  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 17:51 :

Pink eyes as well as rose-tinted spectacles??? Or, do you employ a warm-tone, colour-filter to the post-box slit of your hijab?

Regardless of how it might appear, I'm genuinely NOT attempting to be gratuitously rude, but I do worry about your ultimate agenda.

I concede that your 'personal' experiences may lead you to certain opinions, but eventually we all of us have to take-in the bigger picture. Actually, it's an ENORMOUSLY bigger picture!

14 April 2011 at 18:08  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

You also spelt LoBoS wrong at 17.44. Have you been on the ale already? ;) And yes, for 'naive' I guess also read 'dangerous'. Or even 'nice', going back to the origin of the word, lol.

WV: abutioge

14 April 2011 at 18:11  
Anonymous Oswin said...

LoBo(s) :

I thought 'LoBo' had a certain 'Clint Eastwood' feel to it ... I visualise you 'ordering coffins' as you walk down some dusty street, poncho slung to one side ...

Said ''Ale'' is for high days and holidays, alas!

14 April 2011 at 18:19  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

I searched for LoBo and found this, lol!

LoBo/SLoBo

14 April 2011 at 18:32  
Anonymous not a machine said...

A thoughtful post from your grace !

I thought the speech was articulate and notable and I do accept that efforts have been made to tighten the previous labour goverments attempts to lie about the increased liabilities and burdens that many local goverments have had placed upon them .

The move to ecnomic need for immigration is a little late ,but at least some more correct numbers are being thought.
EU immigration is of course the bug bear , which any right thinking socialist superstate concept should have made right from the off.

I didnt mind his pot shot at labour the student visas scam being a sorry ecnomic theory that students will be paying for , one can only wonder how many wonk courses recieved funding for the extras being allowed in , which perhaps is another example how tax payers money gets spun as success rather than unsustainable bubble when discussing high ed and immigration.

Of course most goverments would like nothing more than to make speechs with success and garlands , but immigration cannot be made into a fabian eutopia by spin. For too long warnings have been sold as the rantings of the mean and racist ideaologies.

Labours myopic embrace of frankfurt school of nation dissolving , is becomming nearer to an unhinged killer caught good and proper dissolving his victims in acid in the back cellar of a lavish tax payer expensed childrens entertainment centre.

Of course Labours mistake was to oppress legitimate concerns about what they were doing , even more so by just putting two marxist fingers up at anyone who asked where the money was going to come from being as we already had 1mn unemployed (never mind the 5mn who are able to work) when labour spun ecnomic alchelmy (only in reverse by turning gold in paper that devalued when the bust came)

Even at the basic level of ecnomics for dummies importing liabilites is a fairly wonk economic theory , add to it extra cost of beaurocatic enlarging and one wonders if Mr Browns or for that matter Mr Blairs pottage on the wealth creation via the knowledge economy , was disengenious , for the ecnomic knowledge was hid.

Loosing the credit taps was perhaps the last lie , as it was unstable , so unstable it took 50% of the uk banking sector with it, rather than fess up to the taxation required to fund the madness.Still all the beaurocratic helpers of the spin got there payment , even the bankers get paid for failure and they were perhaps really all in it together, only now lots of people are in the poverty of its legacy.

Its the arroagnce and utter contempt the british have been treated to , passing off as goverment under labour .In there lies they have sown the seeds for division and uncessary poverty.

we shall have to wait and see how the people will speak on may 5th but you cannot blame them when goverments lie .

14 April 2011 at 18:33  
Anonymous Oswin said...

LoBo(s):

Hell, but he's an ugly bugger, and black too!

I'd stick with old Clint, if I were you.

To all others here: forgive the levity - just drawing breath before normal service is resumed.

14 April 2011 at 18:41  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin: "I concede that your 'personal' experiences may lead you to certain opinions, but eventually we all of us have to take-in the bigger picture. Actually, it's an ENORMOUSLY bigger picture!"

I talk about Leicester because it's one of the local cities here and it is famously a very multi-ethnic one. I used to work in Leicester city centre too and a high proportion of the workforce were of South Asian ethnicity. For the most part, I found that one could simply ignore ethnicity because it really didn't matter either in public or in the workplace.

I know this goes down like a lead balloon in some quarters but, really, that's the extent of it. Most British-Indians and British-Pakistanis are just normal, everyday people in my experience i.e. variously nice or polite, or not, irrespective of ethnicity.

Braunstone and St Matthews are rough, often violent places which are, or were, predominantly poor, working-class white-British areas covered in graffiti and broken glass and litter. Specific areas have identities of their own. For sure, Highfields/Evington has a different sort of identity and its own social issues but I'm not going to see some areas of Leicester as good and Highfields/Evington as bad simply because the latter has a large number of British Muslims in it.

14 April 2011 at 18:41  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin: "Regardless of how it might appear, I'm genuinely NOT attempting to be gratuitously rude, but I do worry about your ultimate agenda."

And what do you think is my ultimate agenda? I simply stand up and point out an alternative reality to the one promoted by most of the small number of regulars here. It's a matter of social justice for me.

14 April 2011 at 19:07  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo :

Your scenario is not one that my many Leicestershire relatives would recognise, in any shape or form! Other than, that is, the City of Leicester is now a majority 'ethnic' city ... thus the 'ethhnics' battle has been largely won.

Is that it then? Everywhere will become 'nice and polite' once we Brits are pushed-out?

My relatives would however, agree that not all 'Asians' are muslims ... they note the difference on a daily basis!

As for your ''lead balloon'', I've already commented upon the 'bigger picture' which you fail to address.

14 April 2011 at 19:14  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin, in which part of Leicester do your many Leicestershire relatives live? Might it be in the former mining villages out West where the BNP has a following?

As for ethnic battles being won, I think I must have missed the battles. Basically, people here live and work and shop and do leisure stuff pretty much like everywhere else. It's not 'ethnics' against 'us' in my world. I think that's where you and I see the world differently so it's not surprising we're both bewildered by the other's description of how it 'is'.

'Failed to address' :) Nice one. I see you've 'failed to address' my point about the area identities then. The bigger picture? What? That the genie is out of the bottle in the UK, as I said before, and we've irretrievably lost the homogeneity of a older world and some people suffer a nostalgic loss of that? Well, all I can suggest is a box of Mansize.

14 April 2011 at 19:27  
Anonymous MrJ said...

More "ods and -ends" (15:04)

About this topic (and of course present company excepted) there are still too many innocents at large, but worse than that too many not so innocent, letting strings be pulled in shadows. Thanks to some commenters there is enough evidence presented here today (and previously) to leave little excuse for innocence. Such loss of innocence may cause discomfort.

Last Dodo "The problem with the West is its corruption and decadence as much as the influx of immigrants." These are distinct problems, and neither is helped by pretending otherwise.

Last Dodo "Never a word on here about the insidious nature of Hindu or Buddist cults that have been infecting these shores with their philosophies since the 1960's. Philosophies that have internally corrupted through mantras of 'peace and love', 'self-fulfillment' etc." That sounds to me more racist than inviting truthful consideration of Hinduism or Buddhism, which may in fact be rather different from your casually damning words seem to imply. (No wonder LoBos (17:13) was baffled.)

Barcelona Declaration of 1995 (17:37) was a new one on me (if it got a mention at the time I must have blinked). No wonder the country is in deep trouble.

DanJ0 (18:41) "Most British-Indians and British-Pakistanis are just normal, everyday people in my experience i.e. variously nice or polite, or not, irrespective of ethnicity." Could be, but for many "our" problem is now theirs too.

14 April 2011 at 19:27  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo:

Your 'fiction' is NOT an alternative reality, it's a delusion.

Your 'ultimate agenda' is part and parcel of previously mentioned 'personal' experiences, as is your muslim niece.

As to the exact nature of your agenda, I cannot tell. I can only surmise from your writings here, that you favour what the indigenous majority do not. There are various names for one who holds such a position, but I'll settle here for the mildest: delusional.

14 April 2011 at 19:28  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Your 'fiction' is NOT an alternative reality, it's a delusion."

I hate to say it but, well, you're a Christian. What on earth do you know about telling reality from delusion?

"Your 'ultimate agenda' is part and parcel of previously mentioned 'personal' experiences, as is your muslim niece."

No idea what that means I'm afraid.

"There are various names for one who holds such a position, but I'll settle here for the mildest: delusional."

There are various names for your agenda too. I suppose "racist" is most appropriate as far as I can tell.

14 April 2011 at 19:35  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 19:27:

No disrespect whatsoever to any miners, or their villages; but no, my relatives are of other occupations.

Anyhows, I would not blame any of those villagers for voting BNP; they've learned to do so, every time they do their weekly shopping, by visiting the City of Leicester!

Further, you fail to recall the denouement to almost all 'genie in bottle' stories ... after a period of chaos and disorder, the genie is wedged back in, and stoppered!

Save the box of 'Mansive' for you and yours, you are going to need them.

14 April 2011 at 19:48  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Oswin said...
"The Last Dodo @14:41 :
What you have to say of our 'home-grown' problems is all too shockingly true!
Howver, it was Maoist thought/policy (adopted by the USSR too) to destroy an enemy country from within."

It's not a Maoist/USSR plot that has corrupted us from within. Far from it. Their threat is very easy to spot and respond to. We've stood by and allowed all sorts of 'foreign' ideologies in. Not least being the hotch-potch of self-help therapies based on demonic inspired principles and texts from the East. Go read some of the texts that have and continue to inspire opinion formers in the West.

My main point is that our most significant issues are not immigration but internal moral decline as we have abandoned christian precepts for conducting our lives. From my perspective this process started in the West when the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment rejected external authority and opened the door for secular liberalism.

Old Grumpy said...
Nothing of any merit having projected all his own prejudices into a reading of my post. I'm certainly not left of centre in my politics and my gender and place of residence is none of his business and irrelevant.

Ps - just watched the news. I see we're beating ourselves up now over 4000 still births a year which may or may not be avoidable. Never mind the 200,000 wholly avoidable and reprehensible abortions a year.

14 April 2011 at 20:00  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 19:35 : ah, I see I'm getting to you!

Oddly enough, it wasn't my original intention, but I appear to have prodded a tender spot somewhere.

I don't mind the word 'racist' as such, a little general perhaps, but I suppose I fit in there somewhere.

'Racism' is not merely an attitude, but a theory too; and one that is no less valid as many another.

I rather tend to think that the last forty-odd years of immigration has gone some measure towards proving such theories, as as well as much more besides.

However, my 'racist' opinions are as NOTHING to how I feel about Islam!

Unlike 'racist', the word 'traitor' (and similar) has but a limited interpretation...

14 April 2011 at 20:11  
Anonymous Oswin said...

The Last Dodo:

Again, I do not disagree with much you have to say, but I'm pretty sure you are tad off-beam as to the main causatic factors, and to certain interpretations tereof.

I am not offering the Maoist/USSR ''plot'' as some way-out 'conspiracy theory' - just citing historical fact; a multi-million yuan/ruble backed fact.

14 April 2011 at 20:23  
Anonymous Oswin said...

'thereof' pfft!

14 April 2011 at 20:24  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Oddly enough, it wasn't my original intention, but I appear to have prodded a tender spot somewhere. I don't mind the word 'racist' as such, a little general perhaps, but I suppose I fit in there somewhere."

Not tender. As ever I tend to respond in like manner. Obviously here, commenting on this blog, I'm a little verbally agressive as a result. I'm quite a nice person elsewhere you know. :)

I recall very well what you've said about 'repatriation' of Muslims in the past, along with Johnny, and in that you are without doubt a philosophical enemy. That's not to say that it is necessary to verbally fight here all the time but should it ever come to it then no doubt we will be on opposite sides of a civil war.

14 April 2011 at 20:27  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

I was reading the Danjo-Oswin thread and was suprised to see Danjo not seeing anything wrong with the Evington/Highfields area of Leicester.

I admit that I was a student many years back, so it might have changed a bit, but Evington/Highfields was the poorest part of the city and was in effect full of slums (although one could rent a house for £30 a week) and in culture one felt as if one were in Pakistan and not England- not a racist comment, but simply an observation.

I have to say that this was the only place that I was actually mugged (or at least attempted mugging) and I've been to some pretty rough areas. I wonder where Danjo lives -Knighton, Clarendon Park perhaps (i.e. the white middle class areas of Leicester?).

14 April 2011 at 20:32  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

As G Orwell says..." To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle. "

But of course Mr Cast Iron and the rest of the useless pots and pans know exactly what is in front of their noses. However, The constant demand of big business and farming conglomerates for cheap labour and no worries about pensions to bring in all those lovely hard working immigrants is hard to resist. Funny thing is our hotels and restaurants and home produced veggies are some of the dearest in the world!

14 April 2011 at 20:32  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Paul T: "I wonder where Danjo lives -Knighton, Clarendon Park perhaps (i.e. the white middle class areas of Leicester?)."

I don't live in Leicester.

"I was reading the Danjo-Oswin thread and was suprised to see Danjo not seeing anything wrong with the Evington/Highfields area of Leicester."

But I didn't say that at all. Highfields was a red light district in parts before the police clamped down. The area around the train station, as it is in most cities, is a bit dubious. Evington is very nice but morphs into a poorer area as you go towards London Road.

If you read back to what I actually said then you will probably see the point I was making: whatever the social problems of Highfields, there are other poor places without a high density of Muslims which are at least as bad and argubly worse.

14 April 2011 at 20:44  
Anonymous Quinn Dexter said...

If Banjo does not live in leicester, then why, oh, why is he constantly banging on about what a garden of eden it is and how wonderfully multi-cultural a place it is?

14 April 2011 at 20:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Dexter 14 April 2011 20:53

If Banjo does not live in leicester, then why, oh, why is he constantly banging on about what a garden of eden it is and how wonderfully multi-cultural a place it is?



Think BanJo is more Walter Mitty than Billy Liar. Probably lives in downtown Hove in East Sussex.

14 April 2011 at 21:02  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Lord knows: "If Banjo does not live in leicester, then why, oh, why is he constantly banging on about what a garden of eden it is and how wonderfully multi-cultural a place it is?"

I worked in the city centre for years and I still live in the area, just not in the city. Why, oh, why are some people so limited in the range of their thinking? I know this place does a roaring trade in tin foil hats but, really, the world is pretty simple when you open your mind a bit.

14 April 2011 at 21:06  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Think BanJo is more Walter Mitty than Billy Liar. Probably lives in downtown Hove in East Sussex."

Yet I maintain the same moniker all the time and you change yours even more than your medication. What a pity you feel you need to do that to have a shot. Bless. :)

14 April 2011 at 21:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lord knows"?????, Trying to gain sympathy for your tall tales from the religious are you?

What sort of a secularist atheist are you, Mr Walter Mitty.

14 April 2011 at 21:11  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Anonymous: "What sort of a secularist atheist are you, Mr Walter Mitty."

I'm the guy with integrity and worthy morals. You're the anonymous guy who is intimidated by the truth. Time and again, it's demonstrated here.

14 April 2011 at 21:18  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Immigration ‘has created a kind of discomfort and disjointedness in some neighbourhoods.’

14 April 2011 at 21:20  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lord knows"?????, Trying to gain sympathy for your tall tales from the religious are you?

"I'm the guy with integrity and worthy morals. " but NEVER an answer..Charles Bonnet Syndrome??Lol!

14 April 2011 at 21:23  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

^ Hey, look. The giveaway formatting. ;)

14 April 2011 at 21:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

^ Hey, look. The giveaway formatting. ;)..Gone Fishing, without bait on the end of your hook..YOU WISH! ;)

14 April 2011 at 21:33  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oh I think not. Busted. What a sap!

14 April 2011 at 21:34  
Blogger Lakester91 said...

I'm almost fully agreeing with the Dodo/Oswin thread. Coming back to Christian roots would actually solve most of our problems. It would neuter Islamic hate groups (by starving them of the source of new members), foster closer national ties (by giving us a national identity) and therefore catalyse immigrant integration. I'm not saying that curbing immigration isn't a good temporary fix, but it's symptom control, not disease curing.

14 April 2011 at 21:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

^ Hey, look. The giveaway clutching at straws. ;)

14 April 2011 at 21:40  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Have you no shame or dignity at all? :O

14 April 2011 at 21:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

None! ;)

14 April 2011 at 21:45  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, how is your friend Sayeeda Warsi reacting to Dave's treachery?

Back home in Pakistan he was dutifully handing out large cheques (Courier this straight to the bank account in Dubai, Sadiq?) and apologising for Perfidious Albion. Whilst up north Dave is still on message and calling Oxford (but not Eton) too white. Then he gets frogged marched by some Tory reactionaries to a white enclave in Hampshire and we get this racist claptrap! Where will it all end?

As a practical suggestion towards Dave's goal of teaching the Ummah to speak English, your communicant proposes immediate abolition of all interpreter services offered by the British government and agencies. This would have the collateral benefit of slashing the welfare bill.

14 April 2011 at 21:46  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Oswin said...
The Last Dodo

Seriously Oswin read go some of the Buddhist nihilist texts and their union with Tantric Hindu texts. Seriously warped and now ingrained in our 'liberated' culture.

Meditation and mantras to false deities, sex as a means of communing with the god and goddess within and the good force in the universe, guardian angels and avitars that can be summoned, crystals, massage, EFT, NLP, hypnosis, chakras and self-healing. All ancient and now modern.

'A Course in Miracles', surely as diabolical as the Qur'an and as influential today in some parts of the West as the Bible!

The core teachings of all the above summoned up in a quote from one of its adherents: "You've committed no sins, just mistakes." These approaches promote tenets of Buddhism such as the belief that one must empty one's mind through 'enlightenment' to find God.

It's all this I see as corrosive. It's now become a billion dollar industry too.

14 April 2011 at 22:35  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo : 22.27

So be it.

15 April 2011 at 00:14  
Anonymous Oswin said...

The Last Dodo @ 22:23

Interesting stuff; and again, I would say that I agree with much that you have to say, especially so re' your above post.

My father, grandfather and great grandfather, were all born in India (which might surprise DanJo) and the family association goes back another century beforehand. What you expose in your above delineation, is all familiar territory to me, and holds many truths.

15 April 2011 at 00:38  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 21:18

I missed the above first time around:

''I'm the guy with integrity and worthy morals ''

Cringeworthy or what?

As my old Grandmama used to say:

'self praise is but poor recommendation' ... she was also wont to say: 'you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear'.

However, if it makes you happy, do carry-on imagining that it is YOU who are enlightened, and given to deep and meaningful thought; clearly the rest of us are little more that mindless relicts, bordering upon extinction.

There now, do you feel the rosy aura around yourself? I was quite wrong, you don't need rose-tinted spectacles at all.

15 April 2011 at 00:57  
Anonymous not a machine said...

surpised red top hasnt gone on caption for eds train journey "good grief you mean you normally have to stand , get an upgrade to 1st class but remove the cat nap fitments"

Christine odone took an interesting line on nurses. However I was fascinated to see AV becoming a thin meal ,I always wondered what would happen if the cost of the referendum got questioned and there we have it the upset woman in liverpool , couldnt the money have been used on somthing else .
In between the somewhat spurios pro answers , of its not the best form etc etc , Micheal Howard made the point I fear , that you simply will not get the force to get questions answered adequately and robustly , as they will not be thinking of winning by holding polices to account, but more likely to be answering so as to gather second preference votes , which will lead not only to coalitions , but to vague positions at hustings with perhaps some very dirty personal background campaigns to knock the second preference calculations .

In FPTP you are also thinking about government , so the vague campaigns which I believe you will see under AV , may weaken mandates to actually govern in the publics mind , by it not being so on the night decisive as FPTP .Could lead to very grumbly electorates where dirty campaigns get run.

We have at least being a succesful country by having a system where you have the choice to elect your member for parliament , and not a calculation , why could be less corrupt than that.

15 April 2011 at 01:03  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Don't you just love Vince the Cable...The best Business Secretary other EU and sub continent nations have ever had!

Hope they either hang separately or all together after the upcoming 5th May debacle...It appears Scotland may hold the winning hand on the acceptance of the AV YES being foisted on the English..you couldn't make it up, could you.

E S Blofeld

15 April 2011 at 02:01  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

We have to get away from the myth that we have to have immigration from other countries because the British will not do the kinds of work that they will do.

Apart from this being an extremely nasty thing to say about both immigrants and the British people it is also not true.

In this country we have a benefits and tax system whereby those who know how to abuse it, manage to achieve for themselves a basic but at least passable standard of living. Those that do not, sink at various rates into absolute poverty and hopeless despair.

In London, and I suspect in all other parts of this country the cost of achieving the basic essentials of life are beyond the means of anyone on much below average incomes. Yet full benefits coupled with between £100-200 or more per week cash earning makes all the difference. Many British people are quite content to do menial work, indeed quite hungry for it, like cleaning for example, as long as it is for cash, no questions asked.

And who in their right mind could possibly blame them for doing so?

Therefore as Cameron rightly alludes to, it is the system that is at fault, not the people who are forced to exist under it.

HOWEVER; and you may have noticed there is usually a big HOWEVER at some time during my comments, none larger then this one.

I can absolutely assure you that Cameron may very tentatively say the right things, but he has no real intention, or actual real power, to do anywhere near the amount of things needed to address this long standing problem.

Thatcher did not do anything about it worth noting, neither did Major, Blair, or Brown, and neither will Cameron.

This is because building a society based largely on benefits dependancy is a long term aim of British Fabianism, therefore The British Establishment.

The last possible thing these faceless NAZI's want is a predominately free, united and independent people, either in this or any other country.

They want to hold as many as possible by the proverbial BALLS, for as long as they can, using any, and all means at there considerable disposal, including of course all of our political party's, deliberately caused booms and busts, 3rd world starvation, otherwise pointless wars, and so on and so forth.

This country is so incredibly divided at this moment, as well as ever more angry, worried and frustrated, it must be a daily shock to the establishment that it remains as cohesive as it still does.

However do not expect this situation to last too much longer. The dogs of reaction are about to be released, as they are currently in places such as France.

This is the sort of establishment sponsored nonsense that was inflicted on the German Nation during the 1920-30s, when at first immigrants of almost exclusively East European Jews and Gypsies, were first positively encouraged to arrive, and then swiftly made to feel like an undesirable plague. I think we all know what happened next.

I have no idea whether or not The Establishment are planning for this nation the same kind of ultimate outcome they planned for the German people, however the Establishment very deliberately doing this sort of thing to a once reasonably united people is a damned clever way to ever more divide the people, so that they can ever more easily rule over them.

Apart from Feminism, and the sort of institutionalized racism promoted by institutions, such as The Race Relations Board; having half the population partly or wholly dependent on our corporatist establishment simply to keep a roof over their heads, as well as feed themselves, and the other half working overtime to finance the entire scam, and to also provide these things for themselves, is of course just another method by which this cruel division is propagated.

15 April 2011 at 02:49  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin: "However, if it makes you happy, do carry-on imagining that it is YOU who are enlightened, and given to deep and meaningful thought; clearly the rest of us are little more that mindless relicts, bordering upon extinction."

Blimey, you make me sound like a Christian there. :O

Context, that's what you needed back there. But no, you pulled the quote out of it. Oh well.

But anyway. Rose tinted spectacles. As a racist, you're going to be seeing things in a certain way.

Normal light to me is probably going to look red-ish to you because you have a spectrum shift yourself I expect.

15 April 2011 at 06:21  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr DanJo. Suggested reading, a comparison of the terms 'racism' and 'racialism'. You do not appear to know or understand the difference.

15 April 2011 at 06:37  
Blogger prziloczek said...

I came to terms with all this in 1989. Before that I was an Anglican, brought up to believe in "Fear God, Honour the King, love the Brotherhood". London was the centre of my world.
Then I became a Catholic. Now my allegiance is to the Church. I love the Pope to be honest, in the same way that I used to love the Queen. My countrymen are, to be honest, my fellow Catholics wherever they come from - Kerala, Poland, Wisbech.
I know this is not popular. But it does make me cosmopolitan. i feel just as at home in Dubai as I do in Australia. Thai Catholics in Bangkok are much closer than, say, Richard Dawkins.
So immigration doesn't bother me that much. I gave up being English ages ago.

15 April 2011 at 07:26  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

Every-one seems to have forgotten daves last "cast iron promise"and seems to imagine that this time he is actually telling the truth,and though they all know that the entireity of it is absolute tripe,they continue to clutch at straws,hoping beyond reason that this time a politician is really intent upon doing something to allay the credible fears of the English people.if you are that gullible then believe it,if you can not remember how the westminster criminals will promise you the earth before an election,and call you a racist afterwards.

15 April 2011 at 08:30  
Anonymous MrJ said...

First: Yes to Atlas (15 April 02:49).

Second: prziloczek (15 April 07:26). noted and welcome.

Third: reverting to Dodo (14 April 20:00):
"... our most significant issues are not immigration but internal moral decline as we have abandoned christian precepts for conducting our lives...."

To my mind the short answer is "Yes, but...." The long answer would include much citaton of biblical texts, Church Fathers and Doctors, historic Cranmer, Philip Pullman and Dan Brown (to name a few).

The short answer stalls because even a brief synopsis of the "but" would be too long, and would go beyond the scope of the present topic.

So let the final verse of the Gospel According to John suffice (21v.25): "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen". (King James Bible) [http://bible.cc/john/21-25.htm]

sunt autem et alia multa quae fecit Iesus quae si scribantur per singula nec ipsum arbitror mundum capere eos qui scribendi sunt libros amen [http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=1&b=4&c=21]

Ἔστιν δὲ καὶ ἄλλα πολλὰ ἃ ἐποίησεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, ἅτινα ἐὰν γράφηται καθ' ἕν, οὐδ' αὐτὸν οἶμαι τὸν κόσμον χωρῆσαι τὰ γραφόμενα βιβλία.
http://www.greekbible.com/index.php

15 April 2011 at 08:34  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Now my allegiance is to the Church. I love the Pope to be honest,

and when The Pope becomes rootless like the Dalai Lama you will wonder what became of Rome ?

15 April 2011 at 11:10  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Voyager said...
"and when The Pope becomes rootless like the Dalai Lama you will wonder what became of Rome?"

Hardly likely. Afterall, we have the promise of Christ assurring us of survival until His return.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(Matthew 16:13-19)

15 April 2011 at 14:22  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

Shame that verse is not referring to Peter though, eh?

Could you imagine it, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, with Peter as its foundation?

I shudder to think.

15 April 2011 at 15:55  
Anonymous Bede said...

Cameron's speech has undoubtedly inflamed extremists......among lib dems.

15 April 2011 at 15:57  
Anonymous MrJ said...

English Viking 15:55 _Here is a good sermon on Matthew 16:13-19, or did you have something else in mind?
http://www.keepbelieving.com/sermon/1989-08-27-Upon-This-Rock/

15 April 2011 at 17:21  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 06:21

It's a new day, the sun is shining and I'm enjoying the birdsong ... I heard a curlew just a few minutes ago, splendid!

No, you don't ''sound like a Christian'' You sound like what you are, a churned-up little mummy's-boy, who just cannot get over himself.

Go ahead, feel free to have the last word.

15 April 2011 at 18:17  
Blogger English Viking said...

Mr J,

Thank you.

Petros/petra is my understanding of this matter.

Peter never went to Rome. It was Paul.

15 April 2011 at 18:39  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin: "No, you don't ''sound like a Christian'' You sound like what you are, a churned-up little mummy's-boy, who just cannot get over himself."

But not racist. Is that what's got you so riled? Why? You want to repatriate British Muslims from our shores! Know thyself, for heaven's sake.

Look, my closest mate has a racist streak in him. He's poorly paid and he sees immigrants as a threat. And he reads the tabloids which obviously doesn't help. We still get on.

15 April 2011 at 19:02  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0

If it makes you feel better, I'll admit it; I am Spartacus?

Sorry, got all confused, I meant; I am a racist.

BTW Do you view all racists as poorly paid, ignorant Sun-readers? If you do, you're going to have a shock with me.

15 April 2011 at 23:04  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking said
"I shudder to think."

Really? Do you think? Don't mistake thoughts for thinking! There're not the same thing and it's probably the strain that makes you shudder.

16 April 2011 at 01:37  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Viking: "Sorry, got all confused, I meant; I am a racist. BTW Do you view all racists as poorly paid, ignorant Sun-readers? If you do, you're going to have a shock with me."

No, not at all. Our man Johnny seems pretty educated and obviously has access to a huge resource of material of various quality. However, the poor and/or ignorant are easy pickings for organisations like the BNP and I expect a fair chunk of their voters are from that group.

Racism, by which I also mean ethnicism I suppose, has some quite valid supporting arguments. I don't just write it off because most people in polite company turn their noses up at it.

Of course, racism on its own is one thing but it also has a context and I have a political and philosophical position on that. An organisation like the BNP are very easy to ridicule because they tie themselves in knots when it comes to the real world. I view the EDL mostly as just thugs.

16 April 2011 at 07:59  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

If you are going to try to impugn my thinking abilities, at least learn grammar/spelling.

If you had ever had an original thought in your life, you would probably need to go to confession, and get absolution from a mere man.

16 April 2011 at 13:21  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

You think the poor and ignorant easy pickings for the BNP.

What of Tory voters, or Lib, or Lab. How ignorant does one have to be, to vote for that filth?

If the EDL are thugs, what are UAF?

16 April 2011 at 13:24  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

The UAF who turn up at demos appear to be thugs too. I suppose it's like the football hooliganism of the 80s: something for violent people to do on a Saturday afternoon.

That said, I wonder if this guy isn't more of a danger to himself than to others:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M

Bless. I suppose we should all be a little bit bothered about Muslamic Law. I thought at first he was drunk but looking at his eyes I'm not so sure now. It's like looking into the eyes of cow.

16 April 2011 at 14:11  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking

People in glass houses! They're easy to spot.

'Originality' and Catholicism are far from being mutually exclusive. Indeed, just read some of the great thinkers and theologians the Church has produced. Or are you frightened this would unsettle your narrow mind too much?

16 April 2011 at 15:25  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

Actually, I'm rather partial to both Belloc and Chesterton, and own numerous copies of their works, plus a couple of first editions.

Being open-minded has its drawbacks; one's mind may be so open, one's brains fall out.

You can rest assured that I do not dismiss Catholicism out of ignorance. I know an awful lot about it and its practitioners.

16 April 2011 at 18:28  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking

Accepting you're well read, why suggest Catholics cannot be original within running to Priests?

So far as your caution against being open-minded goes, having a closed-mind filled with prejudice, is equally dangerous.

On a lighter note:

"All I want for Christmas ..."

16 April 2011 at 19:34  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

You say 'prejudice'.

I say 'common sense'.

I do not say that I do not have an open mind. What I do say is that when I have investigated a subject, as thoroughly as Catholicism, for instance, and found it wanting, unless some remarkable NEW piece of evidence turns up which may change my mind, I no longer need to consider the rights and wrongs, every time the subject is mentioned. I have made my decision, and I shall stick to it.

Popish nonsense.

16 April 2011 at 19:46  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking

I wasn't referring to your position on Catholicism. Each to his own. I've undertaken the same search and arrived at a different decision.

And I also agree there is no point in repeatedly stating one's views when there is no desire to reform an opinion or a belief.

What counts as 'evidence' in matters of faith and religion is, however, open to some debate. Just think how much has been written about Christianity in 2000 years and much of it contentious.

16 April 2011 at 21:10  
Anonymous len said...

Scripture must have the 'last word 'in deciding doctrine.

'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,'(2 Timothy 3 :16)

Once you depart from that 'anything goes' as they say.

17 April 2011 at 19:28  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

len said...
"Scripture must have the 'last word 'in deciding doctrine."

Absolutely! But whose presentation and interpretation of scripture? There's as much diversity within 'denominations' as between them and even the church Fathers took up different positions on parts of the Bible.

Isn't the study of Biblical texts part of our journey in faith. And, in the final analysis, just who decides 'doctrine'.

18 April 2011 at 20:55  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Dodo_It seems that if "doctrine" included what any truth-seeking person believed can be found in a given work of scripture, the question "who decides 'doctrine'" would answer itself. If not, not (again).

18 April 2011 at 23:28  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

MrJ said 18 April 2011 23:28

It appears to Ernst that much confusion resides over the interpretation of what is 'dogma' and what is 'doctrine'.

For example;

Roman Catholic Church teaches the dogma of the bodily assumption of Mary, yet there is no statement of doctrine in the NT whatsoever, so it is authoratively stated by said church but nothing scripturally to back it up as it has a vested interest in holding this dogma. Conclusion:Accept despite the lack of scriptural statements.

Bodily Ressurection doctrine is believed by Christians because there are multiple statements in old and new testament referring to this..From Job to Revelation..so it is true church doctrine. Conclusion:Believe because of definitive scriptural statements.

Ernst could just have easily used Health and Wealth churches dogma to show it is dogma also...Another vested interest but it is not there either!

Ernsty, my fine fellow.

19 April 2011 at 01:13  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Dear Blofeld (01:13), While there may be a useful distinction between what is claimed as doctrine and what as dogma, in my 23:28 doctrine was being used in a wider sense to include such as has been declared "dogma" for those who have chosen to be or remain in obedience to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church headed by the Bishop of Rome, residing at and ruler of Vatican City; and it is not clear to me what point you are making.

But there is at least some confusion among those who discuss, debate or argue about these things, and even Paul admitted to seeing through a glass darkly.

19 April 2011 at 11:36  
Anonymous len said...

I think we could ,and should,act as the Bereans .
Look at our Doctrines and compare them with what Scripture says.
God is not the author of confusion.

20 April 2011 at 20:48  

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