Friday, April 15, 2011

For God's sake, it's Easter: just go out and march

There is story in today's Daily Mail which is of the genre of those that usually appear around Christmas. You know the sort: ‘Winterval’, ‘Winter Festival’, ‘Winter lights’, ‘Celebrity lights’, ‘Luminous’, ‘Eid/Diwali/Christmas lights’, ‘multi-faith holiday’, school bans on nativity plays and shopping centres clamping down on carol singers due to health and safety fears, etc., etc.

Well, it appears we have our first Easter 'ban'. Father Hugh MacKenzie, of St Mary Magdalen Roman Catholic Church in Willesden has been told he and his congregation may not march on Good Friday along a 400-yard route, as they have done every Easter for 13 years, because Brent Council say it breaches health and safety regulations. There is now, apparently, 'strict legal procedure' the council has to follow before they can permit such marches. And so 200 Christians from four churches – the New Testament Church of God, St Andrew’s Church of England, St Mary Magdalen and Willesden Green Baptist Church – will not be able to march. It has been tradition that the public witness precedes their joint celebration of communion (which is interesting ecumenically, but His Grace won't go there today).

He is tempted to say that this is one for Father Pickles, but it really isn't. This is the Queen's highway, and she is supreme Governor of the Church of England. She is sworn to uphold our customs and traditions, and Easter marches go back just a few centuries.

His Grace advises these churches not to make any fuss: don't draw parallels with gay pride marches or Muslims blocking roads to pray with impunity; or to Brent's support for Diwali or Eid celebrations. Just go out and march, as you have done for years. Let them arrest you and bring you to court. And then we will see what excrement hits the fan.

93 Comments:

OpenID scottspeig said...

Indeed they should. And if I lived nearby, I would have considered turning up to march too! Lates hope all the local churches unite and get a large march organised! :)

15 April 2011 at 10:00  
Blogger exiledbrother said...

Are you promoting civil disobedience your Grace?

15 April 2011 at 10:01  
Anonymous MrJ said...

"His Grace advises ...Just go out and march...": could be the best advice they have ever had outside th Good Book.

15 April 2011 at 10:30  
Anonymous Caroline Farrow said...

His Grace is entirely correct that the Churches should not make a fuss or draw unhelpful parallels. I cannot help but think that there are more important battles to be won.

Although I have great sympathy, I do not see why the Walk of Witness may not take place on the pavement like ours has done for as long as I can remember. It may not be the most satisfactory, although in my locality it is certainly safer and much more feasible in terms of ensuring the safety of the elderly and infirm. It also circumnavigates the invariable and time-consuming council beaurocracy.

15 April 2011 at 10:33  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Are you promoting civil disobedience your Grace?

How can that be ? Councils have only Intra Vires powers and cannot make law. They should be forced into Judicial Review before The High Court so let them try prosecute instead of trying to intimidate.

In fact the Churches should put up posters inviting EVERYONE to attend an Easter March for the Resurrection

Freedom is not granted by Council Officials - it is an inherent right of Free Men - it should be exercised

15 April 2011 at 11:07  
Anonymous MrJ said...

What's all this about, then? Perhaps it's in the name "parade".

"St Patrick's Day parade 2011 From: BrentCouncilLondon 21 Mar 2011--Brent Council held a St Patrick's Day parade on 17 March. The parade started at Willesden Green underground station and ended at Willesden Green Library with events, food, stalls, dancing, music and entertainment for all. Several thousand people attended the parade on the day, the sun came out and a good time was had by all."
(source: youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/user/BrentCouncilLondon?gl=GB&hl=en-GB#p/u/1/-CXeQoonKEg)

The clip shows the participation of the Mayor in robes and turban and the tartaned marching pipe band.

15 April 2011 at 11:10  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Mr J.
Apologies if I was a little curt the other day.
Totally agree with you re: the advice offered by His Grace.
Go Ahead. March & may many more join you. Finish it with a huge Service & preach the gospel without fear of man. give out some good literature & invites as you March.

15 April 2011 at 11:11  
Anonymous bluedog said...

A good lead, Your Grace. Perhaps a politician keen to protect the British way of life, such as Dave, will read your post and march too.

15 April 2011 at 11:12  
Anonymous graham wood said...

Exiled Brother asks:

"Are you promoting civil disobedience your Grace?"

Answer: No of course not! The claims of the Council are clearly spurious, and in any event conflict with the Common law rights of freedom of speech and assembly.

Quite right in your advice Cranmer.
March On regardless.
(Of course neither Cranny or anyone else will be accountable for the terrible risk to life and limb which must of course be incurred)

15 April 2011 at 11:43  
Anonymous graham wood said...

I meant to add to my last post:

March on - singing :

"ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS"
(but probably mostly unknown because its rendering in most churches of any denomination may well be a very rare event - the Church Militant having so often retired from the field of battle in these PC days)

15 April 2011 at 11:49  
Anonymous Tom J said...

A march is bound only by the rules of the road, since it is classed as a form of 'vehicle' in a sense.

For goodness' sake, just do it.

Some years ago, there was a proposal to ban marching in Ulster. The Salvation Army' last General, Shaw Clifton, then legal secretary, went to see the minister and said 'we will do it anyway!' - the legislation was dropped.

Go and exercise your legal rights, whether they like it or not. The civil disobedience is on the part of the bullying local authority who have no power to stop you.

I would go... But I will be marching through central London!

15 April 2011 at 11:55  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Bluedog said 15 April 2011 11:12

"A good lead, Your Grace. Perhaps a politician keen to protect the British way of life, such as Dave, will read your post and march too."

Indeed...Maybe he will tell Christians, as he did those who wanted to hold royal wedding street parties,' You march, I'm the Prime Minister, I've told you it's alright'.

Perhaps the 4 churches should sue the council for religious discrimination, if it good for one then it should be the same for all.

As Brent Council said it was only told a week ago, of an event that has taken place historically for 13 years, I presume if I ring up on Good Friday and Easter Monday, they will all be at work, oblivious of this mysterious easter thing?
"And in July last year the council appealed to the Muslim community to notify it of any Eid events so it could promote them free of charge. But it did not do the same for other religious festivals." Never, No Way, Impossible?? That would be positively biased.

Ernsty.

15 April 2011 at 12:01  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

It's always easier to seek forgiveness than permission is always a useful mantra when dealing with bureaucratic jobs-worths - especially the 'elf & safety sort.

Politeness will be the death of us.

15 April 2011 at 12:01  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Here we go again, yet more 'evidence' of the marginalisation of Christianity!

A few 'facts' first before encouraging civil disobedience.

"Officials said they banned the procession because they were contacted too late to carry out a ‘consultation’ to close the roads.".

If true, the organisers have to bear some responsibility.

"The rights of Christians are being overlooked in favour of the rights of Islamic groups and gay rights organisations."

Something of an overstatement if those groups apply in good time. We all know Town Halls move slowly and you did have a year to plan this.

"Brent Council was not contacted about the march until around a week ago.
"There is a strict legal procedure we have to follow to issue a traffic order closing roads so people can march in the highway, which includes advertising and consultation, and this takes about
five weeks.
"We are very sorry to say there is now not enough time for us to legally facilitate this march."

Last night Ann Widdecombe said: ‘Don’t Brent Council know about Easter? These processions will be taking place all over the country on Good Friday, it’s part of our tradition.

Er, yeah, but they don't have crystal balls and the law now requires notification. Admittedly, they could have taken the initiative and written to Churches and informed them of the change in law. A reasonable use of public money? And what's good for one organisation is good for everyone!

So, March and if you're struck by a car don't sue the Council! If you cause traffic mayhem, so be it. It's very unlikely there'll be any arrests or confrontations. But it's not ant-christian and it doesn't reflect a bias towards other minority groups - just better preparation on their part.

"Last night Brent Council told the worshippers to walk on the pavement."

Is there a problem with this suggestion? Remember, 'render unto ceasar'?

The Christian Churches in Britain really do need to stop playing the 'victim' card and seeking publicity like this - for Christ's sake, it's unbecoming.

15 April 2011 at 12:14  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Ps

I agree the advice given in the blog. Stop moaning and just quietly go about your christian business. That way, no one will pay too much attention to the 'civil disobedience'. Just keep the anarcists away!

15 April 2011 at 12:18  
Anonymous martin sewell said...

Invite Eric Pickles to lead it!!

15 April 2011 at 12:35  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Stop moaning and just quietly go about your christian business.(Perhaps why we are in the situation we are in?) That way, no one will pay too much attention to the 'civil disobedience'.(Who is suggesting civil disobedience) Just keep the anarcists away!(LOL..As if anarchists would support christian rights..no wonder you are extinct..are you suggesting the same to happen to christians).

Ignore TLD!

1. Put Davey Boy on the spot and ask 'WELL?'
2. Sue for equal religious rights
3. For Brent Council to actively pursue the Christian community to notify it of any such events, so it could promote them free of charge as it does the Muslim EID.

It's called fairness!

Old Ernsty

15 April 2011 at 12:37  
Blogger Daddy said...

Mr Dodo, this is a red herring.

A march does not *require* a road closure amd therefore neither does it require a consultation for a road closure.

Please, gentlefolk of Willesden, just say no more and do it. Look how many are willing you on...

15 April 2011 at 12:44  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

What happens when Cæsar demands that which is to be rendered to God?

It is solely my Christian conscience that prevents me rendering that which is really due to these morons.

Rebel Saint,

Let me assure you, politeness will not be the death of me.

15 April 2011 at 12:46  
Anonymous John Thomas said...

Graham Wood ("the Church Militant having so often retired from the field of battle") - these days, as I've often said (eg. http://www.affirmingthefaith.com/churchcomp.htm)it's the Church Compliant.

15 April 2011 at 14:04  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...
"Just keep the anarcists away!(LOL..As if anarchists would support christian rights..no wonder you are extinct..are you suggesting the same to happen to christians)."

Clearly you're a person who fails to understand irony!

English Viking said...
"Dodo,
What happens when Cæsar demands that which is to be rendered to God?"

Then by all means disobey - but I'm not sure God requires us to witness Him by a march through Willesden on Good Friday in contradiction to legitimate laws about notification! Not the stuff of martyrdom more tilting at windmills.

Daddy said...
"Mr Dodo, this is a red herring.
A march does not *require* a road closure amd therefore neither does it require a consultation for a road closure."

In point of fact, it does. How can cars and pedestrians occupy the same space without the potential for an accident? Diversions have to be put in place. Even the Orange Order understand this. Marching down the public highway on any day for any reason necessitates permission.

And as I've already said, just get on and do it good christians of Willesden and stop feeling hard done by and drawing publicity to your failure to prepare properly. You're discrediting your faith by claiming discrimination when clearly it's red tape getting in the way. Why go to the press and create a needless situation of potential confrontation?

John Thomas said...
"Graham Wood ("the Church Militant having so often retired from the field of battle") - these days, as I've often said."

Entirely agree although we may disagree on the type of 'militancy'. What about a march against abortion by mainstream churchs? Surely one of the greatest crimes against God and man of our day?

15 April 2011 at 14:16  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Actually, the most disturbing fact about all of this is that the four churches in Willesden can only muster some 200 parishoners between them to witness the single greatest event in human history - barring the resurrection, of course.

15 April 2011 at 14:26  
Anonymous Tom J said...

@Dodo,

I must agree with your latter point.

On the technical stuff, I'm afraid you are completely wrong though. A road closure is not a prerequisite - it can be sensible with larger groups though. Indeed there are rules about marching in poor visibility and the imperative for the rearmost man to exhibit a red lamp to other road users!

Come to Oxford Street in London (as but one example) any Sunday at 1000 and 1400 and see it done, on one of the busiest streets in the capital, and not a high-vis vest in sight...

http://www.regenthallband.com/Regent_Hall_Band/Regent_Hall_Blog/Entries/2011/3/27_Business_as_usual.html

15 April 2011 at 14:53  
Anonymous MrJ said...

A small cloud on the horizon in Brent? Is it another portent of change in the climate of the rule of law? Yesterday Pieta, today Sharia. Hyperbole?

Eyes open. Is anyone still in doubt about the actual and present threat to the liberty of all citizens, irrespective of religious affiliation or none, and specifically vis-a'-vis the Koran and the Bible?

Here is a presentation that explains a thing or two: see all or start at "Operation Enduring Sharia" from 2 mins in clip at Ann Barnhardt - April 14, AD 2011 4:39 PM MST
http://barnhardt.biz/

and then follow through to Hilary Clinton, President Obama and Gen Petraeus..and on to "Why would the US government burn Bibles] ?....."

WARNING This could be quite startling if it is news to you. But at this time of the traditional Christian yearly cycle of solemn days and festivals, it is especially poignant.

It is not all that difficult by casuistical argument to claim a distinction between copies of the one document (Koran) and of the other (Bible). But it is perverse to deem such a distinction just under the rule of law, other than the rule of Sharia which is plainly in conflict with any other law but itself.

The clip shows, among other, that the Koran includes incitement against Christians and Jews.

15 April 2011 at 15:06  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Father Hugh MacKenzie, of St Mary Magdalen Roman Catholic Church, said: ‘The rights of Christians are being overlooked in favour of the rights of Islamic groups and gay rights organisations."

I had some sympathy until I read that. He can go to hell now, so to speak.

15 April 2011 at 15:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DanJO, you have such unhappiness and bitterness in your heart. You need to unburden yourself of this hatred.
alana

15 April 2011 at 15:46  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Remember, 'render unto ceasar'?

When you learn to spell you can research that phrase which does not mean what you think.

It would appear you have no real understanding of Jewish midrash or the theology of the Christian Faith.

The simple fact is that Brent Council was only formed in 1965 and is completely out of its depth. It should simply be abolished by statute

15 April 2011 at 15:48  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

March in April you say?

The stuff and nonsence of Mythology if you ask me but then again, who asked me.

I know of folk with second sight, who claim to have seen this Ogre.

They describe it as a chinless wonder not of this World, quite hideous to behold.

Never ask permission from chinless wonders, thats the moral of this tale.

15 April 2011 at 15:53  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

Good advice Your Grace.
------------------------
(which is interesting ecumenically, but His Grace won't 'go there' today).

Oh please do so soon, as I very keen to know your views on The Ecumenical Movement in general.

This, as I see it as a very dangerous, as well as sinister movement for many reasons.

Religious matters should be a private matter of personal choice, or preference.

What we do not need is ever more unification of all kinds of corrupted organizations, handing down dictates from on high.

For you can be assured that when these things happen the biggest fish in the pond eventually predominates, while choice becomes a distant memory.

Small congregations, as independent from central corporate control is the only option for REAL CHRISTIANS.

Anything else is one nail in a real Christians coffin too many.

I do not see myself as a real anything, never mind a real Christian, however it would seem fairly obvious to me that The Ecumenical Movement marks the eventual end of real Christianity, and most certainly the truly protestant form,( if indeed any such thing ever really existed in the first place) forever.

15 April 2011 at 16:48  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Preacher 11:11 said..."Mr J. Apologies..." To avoid clutter here my reponse is on that thread. [April 12 'Tis Pity...]

15 April 2011 at 16:56  
Anonymous not a machine said...

couldnt agree more , christians of brent or wherever , go and march your 400yds , I hope to be marching in my local one. Stuff the town clerk , if youve done it for 13rs he/she should respect it as part of the boroughs peoples traditions , you just wonder if some boroughs wouldnt lift a finger for anything not marxist .

Father Pickles :) (maybe Friar although Eric of loxley vs evil non disclosure of the expense of Nottingham lol)

may I thank the poster on the previous thread who made me laugh "vince cable says the speech will inflame the extremists , the liberal ones"

15 April 2011 at 17:07  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

alana: "DanJO, you have such unhappiness and bitterness in your heart. You need to unburden yourself of this hatred."

Blimey. Is that better or worse than (say) someone reading a set of crystals and saying that I have a disharmonious energy in the corner of my living room and that a malachite stone might solve the crisis I didn't know, and would probably never know, was unfolding? May I 'unburden' whatever it is on Monday as I'm rather looking forward to the weekend at the moment? Ta.

15 April 2011 at 17:14  
Anonymous Lutherkehrt said...

Cranmer himself would, of course, be delighted that Roman Catholics and those who sympathise with them were prevented from holding a public march to promote their 'faith'.

15 April 2011 at 17:18  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Voyager said...
"'Remember, 'render unto ceasar'?
"When you learn to spell you can research that phrase which does not mean what you think.
"It would appear you have no real understanding of Jewish midrash or the theology of the Christian Faith."

Ooooo, you nasty person insulting a poorly educated Dodo. What's an 'e' or an 'a' out of place between christian brova's? Is spelin and akkess to the internet a prerequisite for Heaven these days? Aren't you one of the 'Sola Scripture' brigade?

Pray tell, what book of the Old or New Testament contains the Jewish Midrash? And there's me thinking it was a Jewish delicacy!

Now my understanding of Christian theology may not be a refined and honed as yours, but this statement of Jesus is obscure. I'm sure you know this and given you're a theologian of some standing will have an erudite and complex answer. One that I probably will not be able to grasp in my ignorance.

For me, it seems fairly clear as a guiding principle in my life when faced with a choice between my faith and the State.

Maybe this is clearer:
“Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God.” Romans 13:1

As He carried His cross did Jesus say this is "unfair", the law is unjust or has been perverted? Did He argue with Pilot? Did He condone Peter's use of violence in the face of Jewish and Roman authority? How many Christian martys demanded exclusion from the law on religious grounds?

My main point is that in the wider scheme of things this is NO BIG DEAL. It's certainly not evidence of discrimination. It is unfortunate that to stay within the law the poor souls of Willesdan will have to make their procession on a pavement and not the road, but the primary fault for the mess-up lies with the them.

The churches of Willesden should either have planned ahead or, on discovering their mistake, followed the advice given in good heart, or kept quiet and gone ahead regardless. No need to blow this up, play the victim, seek publicity, and from the Daily Mail of all papers too, in a questionable attempt to make political capital out of it.

15 April 2011 at 18:16  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Surely it is not a 'march' but an Easter Parade? Lasses in new bonnets etc.


Anonymous @ 15:46

Save your breath, he's immune to everything other than his own opinion. A better Christian than I would pray for him.

15 April 2011 at 18:26  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

Romans 13 v 4 goes on to describe the purpose of this God-instated government: the promotion of good and the punishment of evil. Once a government has strayed from their God given responsibilities, my duty to obey them evaporates.

The disciples regularly refused to submit to local government requests/demands to shut up about Christ. We should do the same. Being a good Christian is often knowing when to say 'no' to someone, or in this case, something.

15 April 2011 at 18:32  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Oswin: "Save your breath, he's immune to everything other than his own opinion. A better Christian than I would pray for him."

I appear to have prodded a tender spot somewhere.

15 April 2011 at 18:55  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Nothing that a touch of Germolene can't put aright.

15 April 2011 at 19:12  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

When I was a child, iodine was always applied to bruises. Not sure how effective it is when the bruise is on the ego but it might be better than Germolene.

15 April 2011 at 19:24  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Oswin - DanJo

Children ... please!

15 April 2011 at 20:26  
Blogger English Viking said...

Danjo,

Iodine? LUXURY!

I distinctly remember being hit in the mouth with a stray golf-club when I was a kid, and running to my mother for comfort.

After being told to 'Stop being a girl', despite 2 missing teeth and a split lip, she produced 2 of the most medicinal products known to man; butter and mints.

She rubbed the butter on my cuts, put a mint in my mouth , kissed me on the forehead, and, lo and behold, I was healed (sort of).


Dodo,

LEAVE IT, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.

15 April 2011 at 22:24  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking

Now I'm beginning to understand why you repress your loving and gentle side.

An absence of maternal affection is a heavy burden to carry through life. I suspect you were also jealous of your pater too.

Untreated, it leads to frustration, uncontrollable aggression, splitting and projection.

Go get some therapy - urgently!

16 April 2011 at 01:30  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 19:24 - on all questions pertaining to the 'ego' I will bow to your geater experience thereof.

16 April 2011 at 03:23  
Anonymous len said...

As Christians are supposed to obey the Authorities I would suggest they humbly submit and conduct their march along the pavements

I assume Christians are( at this moment in time)still allowed on the pavements?

16 April 2011 at 07:42  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

If they call it a demonstration, they'll be OK

16 April 2011 at 09:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So these 400 or so Christians are just going to turn the other cheek? How about just marching anyway? It’s a good job the early Christian saints and martyrs were not so feeble or else the Gospel would not have spread more than a few miles and we would all be celebrating Pagan or, more likely, Moslem rituals throughout the land.

16 April 2011 at 12:07  
Anonymous len said...

Without some sort of Police presence to march along a road would be foolhardy,especially if youngsters are involved!

That is no way to be martyred for Christianity.

16 April 2011 at 12:57  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

My mother has a swinging brick in place of a heart.

My father, on the other hand, was a very loving man. I am not 'jealous' of him, but I would not be far wrong if I was to emulate him. A lovely man.

Shame he died when I was kid.

BTW I don't go in for all this 'therapy' shite.

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly.

16 April 2011 at 13:17  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking

Apologies for getting personal last night - and I agree with your last sentence whole heartedly. Too many ungodly therapists out there!

Let your love shine. You know you can.

16 April 2011 at 14:24  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Good, I fear we all of us became a tad too excited over the last couple of days; something in the air perhaps?

I hear that we are currently suffering an 'adverse planetary disposition' - but perhaps it's best not to go there! :o)

16 April 2011 at 15:54  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

I'll forgive you, thousands wouldn't.

16 April 2011 at 16:30  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking said...
"Dodo,
I'll forgive you, thousands wouldn't."

Many thanks; you're a good fellow.
One small step ....

16 April 2011 at 19:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If you are organising a march, you are legally required to notify the police six days in advance, or as soon as it is reasonably practical to do so"

direct gov advice - so still plenty of time to give them a call - nothing about having to tell the council

16 April 2011 at 21:35  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Here's another one to huff and puff about:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8456637/Electrician-faces-sack-for-displaying-Christian-cross-in-his-van.html

I see the Christian Legal Centre is on the case already.

17 April 2011 at 06:40  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

Here's another one to huff and puff about:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110415/tuk-gay-couples-stage-mass-kiss-in-londo-a7ad41d.html

I see the "we'll force it down your throats whether you like it or not" militants are on the case alreasy.

17 April 2011 at 07:14  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

'already' even.

17 April 2011 at 07:14  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"I see the "we'll force it down your throats whether you like it or not" militants are on the case alreasy"

Hardly militants. Where was the aggression? I thought that was absolutely brilliant as it goes. A bit of very good-natured people-power including gay people, straight people, and an appreciative audience.

The difference between the two stories, clumsily cobbled together by you, is that the CLC is deliberately playing on the insecurities of Christians to try to get a test case to the Supreme Court. They want to create a false sense of victimhood in people like yo^h^h^h in Christians.

They don't care how many hopeless cases they use and how many people fall by the wayside to do it. It's a political strategy. Dangerous too, I think, because if the eventual test case fails then predecent will have been set.

17 April 2011 at 09:03  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

Excuses, excuses. One law for you and another for everyone else. And clumsily cobbled together? Lol, I simply mimicked you.

17 April 2011 at 09:17  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Excuses, excuses. One law for you and another for everyone else. And clumsily cobbled together? Lol, I simply mimicked you."

Nope. If straight people can kiss in pubs then gay people can too. One 'law' for everyone. Do you get it?

The religious symbols personally displayed in work vans is an interesting one. My workplace requires me to wear an office shirt and trousers as they want to present a particular image to visiting customers. I have a contract of employment and essentially that's part of it. When I'm at work, I'm in a role. I get it. The van man doesn't.

According to the link, he wants a special privilege to display religious symbols in an workplace area which is customer facing. The company is willing to let him wear them personally, just not affix them to his workplace van. I can't see the problem there. In fact, it sounds quite pragmatic since customers will just identify him as a Christian but not his workplace as a Christian-oriented organisation.

Hope this helps.

17 April 2011 at 09:36  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

Straight people as well as gays have been asked to leave pubs for refusing to limit public displays of affection, so get your fats correct please. A great many people are not happy sitting next to people who are slobbering over each other. They were asked to stop, the refused. So they were told to leave. The landlord was perfectly within HIS rights. As was the van owner re the cross.

Hope that helps you...no, it won't actually will it? You have a curious aversion to accepting anything which doesn't fit in with your personal prejudices don't you?

17 April 2011 at 10:26  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

*sigh* 'facts' not 'fats'

17 April 2011 at 10:27  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Hope that helps you...no, it won't actually will it? You have a curious aversion to accepting anything which doesn't fit in with your personal prejudices don't you?"

Blimey, it's like a Roman candle. ;)

Well, we'll see how the two situations pan out whatever your assertions are today.

17 April 2011 at 10:43  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said 17 April 2011 10:26

"Straight people as well as gays have been asked to leave pubs for refusing to limit public displays of affection, so get your fats correct please. " I know this to be true as Ernst had to ask acouple to leave for being to er..Eager, shall we say, when he was a Manager of Pub/Restaurant in his mid twenties. More embaressingly, Ernst was himself asked to pick up his lips and leave when in his late teens for same offence..my story was, I was young and she was damned gorgeous. Ernsty accepted his naughty behaviour and took it on the chin rather than get all his mates and girlfriends to have a kissing session outside the pub. How times have changed?

Would be interested to know what would have happened if Electrician had a copy of 'Morning Star' paper on the dashboard instead of a simple palm cross? Would he have been chastised by the employer for being a communist or having communist allegiances? Where aggressive secularism has led us, perhaps.

Nice to see you back, Pure Mind! Luv the pic.

Ernsty, my boy.

17 April 2011 at 12:52  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

The question, my Two Eccentric Muskateers, is whether straight couples have, or would have, been ejected for the same thing in this establishment. The description of it being "obscene" by the landlady suggests not, as does the defence of the gay couple by some bystanders in the pub, and the lack of clarification by the pub afterwards. General house rules are one thing, but discriminatory house rules are quite another.

17 April 2011 at 13:25  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

The van driver was apparently asked by various different managers to remove the religious symbol from the van and he refused each time and now he's facing a disciplinary hearing by the look of it. Ironically, the van driver did not take it on the chin for his naughty behaviour despite the moral of the anecdote by Portos there. How times have changed etc!

17 April 2011 at 13:32  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/kissing-lesbians-offered-free-bottle-of-wine-201104153724/

:)

17 April 2011 at 13:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dearest DanJO

Yet again, you see things through those curiously angled bifocal glasses.

"The description of it being "obscene" by the landlady suggests not, as does the defence of the gay couple by some bystanders in the pub, and the lack of clarification by the pub afterwards" Most first dates tend not to start slobbering over each other until they usually agree to go back to someone's pad to..take things further. Maybe love is viewed as pure physical lust by Gays & Lesbians, hence I am surprised they didn't just whip todgers out there and then and get on with it..You don't need to be Heterosexual to know decency, my lad..It's called public decency for and towards others, without looking for everything to be 'discriminatory'!
"as does the defence of the gay couple by some bystanders in the pub, " WHO JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE lol..most public refuse to get involved in anything..Ernst knows as he regularly went and goes to the pub.
Believe what you will but please don't take old Ernsty for a fool, there's a good boy. They were knobbled, good and proper.

Your lot have an agenda as obvious as the dangling things hanging down between the hindlegs of a Doberman!

"and the lack of clarification by the pub afterwards." Think they realised they'd been HAD!

"The van driver was apparently asked by various different managers to remove the religious symbol from the van and he refused each time and now he's facing a disciplinary hearing by the look of it. Ironically, the van driver did not take it on the chin for his naughty behaviour despite the moral of the anecdote by Portos there. How times have changed etc!"

Don't you just love the hypocrisy of the perverted....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1377684/Electrician-Colin-Atkinson-faces-sack-Christian-cross-van-dashboard.html

Take it you are a big fan of Che as well..LOL.

Dear Boy, please feel free to delude yourself about equality and your pre-defined definition of Who is equal and who not. If that poster of Che had been one of Jesus Christ, it take it you might view things differently..Secularists!! The best stand up artists out there, without knowing it?

Bless you this Easter, my boy, genuinely..

Old Ernsty

17 April 2011 at 14:44  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

http://www.thedailymanure.co.uk/news/society/kissing-gays-offered-free-condoms-and-use-of-lavatory-cubicle2-201104153-666/

:)

17 April 2011 at 14:55  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"Believe what you will but please don't take old Ernsty for a fool, there's a good boy."

*cough*

17 April 2011 at 16:19  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

From another source:

"Lucy Clements, a 27-year-old production manager, and Jamie Morton, neither of whom know Bull or Williams, were sitting at the next table and witnessed the events. They were also asked to leave after questioning the couple’s ejection"

17 April 2011 at 16:27  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

From yet another source:

"Lucy Clements, a 27-year-old production manager, and Jamie Morton, neither of whom know Bull or Williams, were sitting at the next table and witnessed the events. They were also asked to leave after questioning the couple’s ERECTION"

17 April 2011 16:27

*Splutter* *Horror* lol.

Ernsty

17 April 2011 at 16:41  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Isn't it time you switched IDs again 'Blofled' and started replying to yourself?

17 April 2011 at 16:58  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Here's my prediction: 1. the gay couple will choose not to pursue their complaint to the police, having raised awareness in a different way. 2. the van driver will be sacked for gross misconduct if he still refuses to follow a 'reasonable request' from his employer. 3. the CLC will back the guy to take it to an employment tribunal and it will fail there. 4. the guy will be unemployed and the CLC will wash their hands of him, having achieved their aim again.

17 April 2011 at 17:02  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Isn't it time you switched IDs again 'Mystic HandJOB' and started playing with yourself? Rabbit!
;)

Ernsty, my gay chum.

17 April 2011 at 18:11  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

Interjecting briefly between your jovial discussion together, lol, I think both sides are over-reacting and I sincerely hope they both drop it. Re the van driver, my understanding is that he was actually offered the opportunity to wear a symbol of his Christian faith rather than decorate the van, but he turned it down! What???

And lol at Ernst, re the other thing you said, hehehe. I might change it actually and see if you can figure that one out too, lol.

17 April 2011 at 18:34  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

We are on the same wavelength LoBoS.

E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld the first..LOL.

Ernst, my favourite eccentric communicant.

ps

Mystic HandJOB is only jealous..lol.

17 April 2011 at 20:05  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Porthos: "Isn't it time you switched IDs again 'Mystic HandJOB' and started playing with yourself?"

I'm always DanJ0 and nothing else. You gave yourself away properly the other day with the formatting and style. Not that it hasn't been obvious before then that you lie like a cheap watch, of course. The pious crap you put out every so often doesn't save you, you're as godless as I am and you show it almost daily. Even the little Easter 'blessing' up there shows it. You'd better hope that this Christian god thing is a load of cobblers because I doubt the god will look too kindly at your mummery if not.

17 April 2011 at 20:22  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

If it was the van man who invited the Daily Hate Mail reporter to take photographs inside his company premises, and especially his boss's office, to back the story and it wasn't done with permission from the company then I expect he's going to be in hot water for that too.

17 April 2011 at 20:30  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"I'm always DanJ0 and nothing else. " as if that is some kind of justification, which makes you and your obnoxious ID and limited intelligence bearable!

"you're as godless as I am and you show it almost daily. " LOL..ooh, a tender spot.Just below the ribs, where a heart should be!.Ernst should not have wished you a season's blessing..I withdraw it if it has offended thy sensitive soul..The day Ernst has to rely on the wisdom of a gay secularist/atheist who is heading fast to The Lake of Fire, then all hope is lost..

"You'd better hope that this Christian god thing is a load of cobblers because I doubt the god will look too kindly at your mummery if not." Dear boy, you had better hope The Antichrist likes your sort or else your head will be removed from your body.. He is ever so religious and will require all men left here to worship him..reckon you could do that, Mystic HandJOB.

Ernsty, my lad.

17 April 2011 at 22:21  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

17 April 2011 at 22:46  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"If it was the van man who invited the Daily Hate Mail reporter to take photographs inside his company premises, and especially his boss's office, to back the story and it wasn't done with permission from the company then I expect he's going to be in hot water for that too."

Not everyone is a subscriber to UK Gay News or Gay Times. Such a terrible misappropriation of such a nice english word.

Mystic HandJOB, as predictable as rotting flesh on a leper and just as malignant.

Old Ernsty.

Ps

Ernst presumes that those kleenex tissues are really piling up today..lol.

17 April 2011 at 22:49  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Ok LoBoS you got me..If I look at anymore Kanji symbols I will lose the will to live..after 1850 I was seeing British Highway signs such as old people crossing, humped back bridge and slippery road ahead. Ernst would like to enjoy Easter without being held in a high security wing for the mentally deranged!

I agree to leave this one a secret for you and mind my own business..lol.

Ernsty knows when he is beaten, my clever lad.

A Humbled Old Ernsty.

18 April 2011 at 00:16  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 April 2011 at 00:33  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

18 April 2011 at 01:08  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

I did post the answer here Ernst, but then thought better of it as it wasn't suitable for His Grace's blog.
I have however posted the answer on my blogger profile if you want to read it.

18 April 2011 at 01:11  
Blogger LoBoS aka LobotomySpoon82 said...

Oh so that's why I was having problems, lol. I can delete it off my profile now then.

18 April 2011 at 01:12  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Agreed so altered..

LoBoS, you cad, sir.

Brilliant..should have realised it was YOU I was checking into...
LOL BIGTIME...

Looked again and thought it was something to do with some secretive brotherhood. Told you those symbols do funny things to the brain...like those squiggles they ask you to look at and say the first thing that you see.

It makes Latin look a stroll in the park.

You obviously take Omega 3 for one and Beef Madras for the other.

Ernsty

18 April 2011 01:08

18 April 2011 at 01:14  
Blogger Marinaki said...

The local Orthodox Church (two boroughs away from yours) has had a Good Friday March for 30 years (on Orthodox Good Friday which this year coincides - as it did last year). At least 5,000 people attend often double that. It happens in the evening while there is a procession with the Cross and "lamentations at the tomb" are sung.
Traffic is diverted from around the Church for the whole evening, as is the local bus route. Large notices have been up in the local area all week advertising the diversion, and the bus route changes.
While this is a very diverse area, and there is some inconvenience to neighbours, because parking becomes difficult etc, on the whole people are very positive about it, and people traditionally come out of their houses to see the candle lit - procession.
The Church plans this months in advance with the local authorities and the police - who are very supportive.
They also help police the Resurrection Service on the Saturday evening - where the crowds fill the Church, the Churh Hall, and spill into the street.
We only had a slight misunderstanding one year, when the police stopped the priest from driving through to the Church, it was resolved - but at the traditional litanies that are proclaimed at each crossroads passed in the procession as well as praying as is usual "For the Queen, the Royal Family, and those in authority" - the priest made sure he switched to English for these prayers (usually in Greek) and added "and for the POLICE FORCE (shouting loudly) who protect us so well!"
Maybe some loud prayers for Brent Council are in order - and earlier planning.

21 April 2011 at 13:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://spiritualmessiahministry.blogspot.com/2011/04/call-to-all-christians.html

A Call to All Christians
Do we truly have freedom of religion? Are we seeing the beginning of the illegality of Christianity? 
Its a well known fact in the muslim nations, christians are being persecuted. Now in rediculous numbers. China does not allow christian churches that arent ok'ed by the state. In England, a 13 year annual Easter march has been banned; a christian was told to remove his cross from work vehicle (so company isnt viewed as a christian organization). In America christians cant freely speak our theology without worrying who might get offended or if we'll be arrested. That is only to name a few ways christianity is being persecuted. 

Spiritual Messiah Ministries believes this to be disgraceful. If other faiths can be proud and open, why cant christians? Whats wrong with wearing a cross? Whats wrong with hanging a cross from the rear-view mirror or a decal on your window in your vehicle? We feel nothing. Every faith has a symbol of their faith they display for religious or spiritual purposes. Christians have the cross. We feel it is disrespectful to treat christians beliefs like yesterdays news. We feel it is disrespectful to fire someone because they wore a cross to work. We feel its disrespectful to not give one a job because they are a christian. Since when is it wrong to be a christian?

Spiritual Messiah Ministries is calling ALL christians to come together for the sake of christianity in the name of Jesus Christ. Catholics, Protestants, and non-denominational christians alike. We ask you to put your differences aside, theological disputes aside, and join us on Ascension Day (June 2nd) in a nation-wide march for Christianity. Not just American christians but christians of the world. Christianity is being persecuted and slowly murdered. We need to pull together and show the worlds governments God is still alive. Through Jesus we will not allow christian persecution any longer. It stops here with us. When we march, we will be marching united under God for every christian across the globe. 

This is a very serious matter. Many would like to believe persecution wont happen here. Its America, we're free. The fact is, American christians are being persecuted against. Subtly as to try and keep it as unseen as possible. 
Well we say enough. Before it goes any further we say enough. Before it becomes a crime to be christian, we say enough. 

We ask that this cry for christian unity to reach every christian household, every christian church. We ask that every christian join us on Ascension Day in a nation-wide march to let the world know christianity is not going anywhere. We ask that every christian join us on Ascension Day to let the world know you cannot silence nor kill God. 

If you would like to help us organize this event or would like more information on the event, you can contact us via email at messiahministrys@aol.com  You may also contact Reverend Red direct via reverendwconrad@aol.com

We look forward to seeing you all on Ascension Day (June 2nd) as we march together in Jesus' name to keep Christianity alive. 

God Bless America, God Bless All Christians around the world.

21 April 2011 at 17:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry. Couldnt log in. The Call was posted by Reverend Dr. Red Conrad, D.D. of Spiritual Messiah Ministries. http://spiritualmessiahministries.org

21 April 2011 at 17:55  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Top news:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8468073/Christian-electrician-wins-cross-battle.html

The company has backed down over palm cross display van man! :O

The CLC must be well chossed off.

22 April 2011 at 09:15  
Anonymous len said...

Why are only Christians persecuted, here in the UK and Worldwide?.

The answer is that Satan hates Jesus Christ and all who follow Him because Jesus defeated Satan at Calvary.

What does this say about all the religions Satan doesn`t bother with?

22 April 2011 at 19:59  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Len: "Why are only Christians persecuted, here in the UK and Worldwide?"

Christians aren't persecuted in the UK, that's a myth put about by the Christian Institute. The CofE is part of the establishment, there's a change coming to dis-establish, and political organisations like the Christian Institute are trying to retain the status quo.

23 April 2011 at 13:12  

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