Friday, April 08, 2011

Iraqi Forces continue bloodshed in Ashraf


Despite all efforts to secure protection for the residents of Ashraf (by asking the United States to take back responsibility for them as Protected Persons under the 4th Geneva Convention and under International Humanitarian Law and the United Nations to set up a permanent monitoring station in Ashraf), a brutal attack was launched on them this morning at 4.45 am (1.45 GMT) which continued for six hours causing over 30 deaths and 300 injuries.

The Iraqi government forces moved a large number of tanks within the northern boundary of Ashraf last Saturday, 2nd April. By urgent request from the International Community, US forces were stationed in Ashraf on 3rd April, but, after discussions in Iraq between Robert Gates, US Secretary of Defence, and Nouri al-Maliki, the American forces were ordered to leave the camp on 7th April and not to intervene to prevent the Iraqi forces crime against Ashraf residents. According to reports, final coordination was then made between the Iraqi Prime Minister, the Iranian embassy and the terrorist Quds force to attack Ashraf the folowing morning.

Despite statements of support for Ashraf from many Iraqi parliamentarians,
their armed forces, under the direct command of Al-Maliki, attacked the unarmed residents using Colts, automatic weapons and machine guns installed on armored vehicles, with the clear intent to terrorise, maim and kill them. They also used humvee vehicles as lethal weapons, driving indiscriminately into the crowds peacefully protesting their actions.

Due to the medical restrictions as a result of the siege, there are no facilities in the Ashraf hospital, such as blood for transfusions, to support the level of injuries. The water supply has also been cut off and reserves are disappearing rapidly. Maryam Rajavi, President-Elect of the Iranian resistance, has appealed to the US Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton, for the wounded to be taken to the American hospital near Ashraf, but so far this has been denied.


As a result, on top of the 20 and more people killed directly, at least 10 people have died from their injuries and more than 20 others are on the critical list.
Although the Iraqi forces have currently stopped their attack, they are still located in Ashraf, where they are employed in looting and destroying residences. There is every likelihood that they could recommence firing at any time.

The BBC have picked up on this, and His Grace wishes to bring the matter to the urgent attention of his readers in the hope that the world may know of this appalling situation and to bring about an end to these despicable crimes against humanity.

The United States and the United Nations must urgently intervene to stop this massacre. It is beyond dispute that (at the very least) a UN monitoring team ought to be allocated to Camp Ashraf along with security in order that the situation may be monitored. This slaughter amounts to genocide. The Iraqi government must be forced to to respect the international laws which demand the safety and protection of the residents of Ashraf.


Blogger B.N.A.Freedom said...

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. A government funded and supported by the West should be held accountable for this barbaric behaviour. We must stop this outrageous conduct by our supposed "ally"!

8 April 2011 at 17:40  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

It looks like Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction to me, that they can use at a minutes notice.

These Weapons are not capable of reaching Israel though, so nothing for the US to worry about.

8 April 2011 at 17:48  
Anonymous Peniksen Kehitys said...

That really was a pretty disturbing video.. I hope things will turn out better over there but I don't know hiow much we can help them to achieve that..

8 April 2011 at 18:17  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Three days ago, Fars News Agency carried a story about Camp Ashraf that claimed torture was being used and Qur’anic verses falsified. Tell an Iraqi soldier that Iranians are torturing each other and he’ll shrug his shoulders. Tell him they’re altering the Qur’an and he’ll go berserk.

8 April 2011 at 18:27  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

And to think this whole thing began because someone called Mohammed had the strange notion Jews and Christians had corrupted the message.

When in reality all that has ever been corrupted was its interpretation.

When you look to the Kingdom within you as Christ taught the Bible sits compfortably with Vedic wisdom and the puranas compliment the Old Testament, the Kaaba could be returned to its roots but some deceivers prefer the present mayhem.

Whatever Mohammed muddled until we understand something had been corrupted, we cannot sort it out.

8 April 2011 at 19:00  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Has this come back in the news now for the reason Johnny Rottenborough reports?

What can the US President do without money granted by Congress. What can the UK government do when it is in such a mess of misgoverment? What can NATO countries do when...

Could the grossly overpaid "bankers" help by redeploying some of the "wealth" they have taken away (by fair means or foul)?

Has the UNO capacity enough to act in this and other such cases of violence, and cases of grave injustice?

There could be public figures willing to take up the cause. Did not Mr Miliband lately compare himself to Martin Luther King and some others? Unless he is anxious not to upstage Mr Blair or Baron Kinnock (of Bedwellty in the County of Gwent).

Perhaps it could be President Van Rompuy and Baroness Ashton (of Upholland, PC)?

But if Johnny R. is right, such intervention could be of little use.

8 April 2011 at 19:11  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Bred in the bone (19:00)—And to think this whole thing began because someone called Mohammed...

…was probably an epileptic and may have suffered from a tumour of the pituitary gland that put pressure on his brain and distorted his senses.

Diagnoses include ‘organic hallucinatory affliction with paranoid characteristics’, ‘paranoid hallucinatory schizophrenia’ and ‘unhinged paranoid personality with an inferiority complex and megalomaniac tendencies’.

8 April 2011 at 19:31  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Nice prognosis Johnny but we should still take his disability allowance away and send him back were he came from.

8 April 2011 at 21:07  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Despicable? Yes. Genocide? Hardly. Criminal? Fine line between crimes against humanity and a state reimposing order and quelling rebellion through the use of military force.

'Iraq' as a 'country' is an artificial construct that suited the West at one time. Whether it continues as a single state remains to be seen. Its previous condition was as East/West divide.

If anyone should intervene with armed force on the side of the rebels surely it should be one of the Arab states? The UN has implemented the no-fly zone. That's it without another resolution.

There's precious little known about the rebels and, sadly, they do seem to be a motley, disorganised crew. This isn't a 'religious' war, it's tribal.

Without an international remit to police the world - and intervene in internal affairs too - there's little more that can be done.

Sad and heart breaking but that's the way of the world.

8 April 2011 at 22:04  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, exactly who are the Ashrafis? Arabs, Iranians, Kurds, Christians or Muslims? Your communicant confesses confusion.

8 April 2011 at 22:09  
Blogger Ernst, Tiddles and the case of the Traitorous PM said...

Bred in the Rum Baba.8 April 2011 19:00

"Puranas' & 'Kaaba's"

Why this talk about are making Ernst hungry.

Fancy a nice Shesh Kaaba with salad and extra chilli sauce.

Irma, pass that phone. I fancy a takeaway.

Wish I could speak Vedic. "Live long and prosper"..that's all I can remember from Star Trek.

Can do the Vedic salute thing with my fingers.


8 April 2011 at 22:21  
Anonymous not a machine said...

There are times when I look at these countries and realise they have been both colonised and later progandised since the turn of the last century , some with hardcore communist type constructs. I sometimes can see the mix of marxism/militant and islam , libya being an example . Yet in Iraq the the Imans seem to have fossilsed , the old troubles , and killed moderate islam off at an early stage, for some still rather invisible jihad .

The quoranic versus that request all is to be subjogated to allah and those that do not become subjogated , either to be considered slaves or die , hardly suggests that they have the ability to have a rational debate about secular government let alone other faiths. In that sense islam combines duty and agression , quite different to christianitys more questioning nature if what ones flesh is powering is not weakness or blindness.

I am still waiting for some Islamic group to start preaching Islam in a less hardline way , but they cannot get round to interpreting or even expounging some its hardline messages ,as it is heresey.We might have a different view of islam if Allah had not written/spoke about putting to the sword all that isnt Islam.Which of course has led to its own schizms , it is a wedding of violence and lack of questioning that to me imprisons them , sometimes lacking explantion rather like a bully who authors him/herself because it is a level of understanding they are stuck with. It is repetiton rather than enlightened , mechanical in some ways , energise it and it does the same thing as it did 100s of years ago , conversion or death and war to everything that isnt it.

It may modernise , who knows , but wealth has not changed it , nor does its inescape from the poverty and illitercay that it still fails to cure ,by its war against and enemy it cannot and does not question , because it says so literally/instructionally as though all but allah would be born with less mental faculties than allah.

Only islam can say if the quoran is too closed a book creating closed and unimformed socieitys , that are proud of there poverty that could be changed if they thought in a different way .Anything the west has to say is just too differnt for them to accept as progress , but change is not somthing one can stop if evolutionary viable , ideas can be as old hat as the abusive hat wearer that only changes with violence .Feet of clay perhaps do end up being kalishnicov owners as they can no longer run when they repress .

8 April 2011 at 22:24  
Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

You promised disturbing scenes.

I feel most disappointed.

For Iraqi, read English. Or U.S. Or any other member of the coalition.

Show me a woman injured, that'll do it. Not.

I could show you thousands of mine.

Why is it disturbing when non-Europeans die, but merely a statistic when Whitey does?

I use the word 'Whitey' in the same sense that Michelle Obama does.

We should not be there, it is a folly.

But if there we are, let us be the victors. Let the apes fight amongst themselves, as they have always done.

ALL through history, the muslim monkeys have killed Jews and Christians; when none are available, they kill each other.

The more, the merrier.

My heart bleeds.

PS The real Christian man will steel himself to the reality of war, because there is a very big one to come, and if he thinks the best thing to do is to pray and cry, he will lose.

8 April 2011 at 23:05  
Anonymous not a machine said...

English viking : do you really believe prayer is an inferior weapon in war ?

8 April 2011 at 23:11  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Ernsty I also enjoy our little tete e tetes for fun and I would like to offer my Vedic Salute to US involvement.

Lets respect American interests for a change and let the Fed Gov go under!

The poors beggers may need a transitional period to survive, but I bet they will be the stronger for it and not so quick to forget their history again.

Survival coming to a keypad near you, keypad tappers.

All Hail the keypad tapping nobs association!

8 April 2011 at 23:12  
Anonymous jones said...

Would not a UN 'safe zone' be of utility?

Like in Bosnia.

8 April 2011 at 23:14  
Blogger English Viking said...

Not a machine,

Except the Lord build a house, they labour in vain that build it.

No amount of armour, rockets, missiles, bullets, etc will prevail against the will of the Lord.

Praying can and will reveal that will.

And then action is required.

The step between the praying and then the acting is where the Christian world is (most sadly, but most definitely) lacking.

If you think that by showing weakness, an enemy such as the muslim will be defeated, you are as bad as he.

8 April 2011 at 23:23  
Blogger English Viking said...

PS not a machine,

Whilst it is all so academic, in this this country (mostly) at least, you'll feel all lovely and warm, so superior, like a father with his child.

The time is coming when you will either man-up, else beg for a man like me. when a muslim has slit the throat of your child, whilst you prayed, and then stands over you.

Grow up. Quickly.

8 April 2011 at 23:28  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Eglish viking : I see what you mean about showing weakness to an enemy that sees it as oppertune to conquer as a sort of foolishness. (noting that as christians we are to be somthing more than conquerors).

I cannot however believe that prayer is uanable to defeat error or enemy .does it not say with enough faith one could move a mountain , prayer with ones mind close to god would certainly implie more effect than bullits or high ex.

I admitt though I do not have an answer for whens ones life is threatend , perhaps that is why an end will come when we collectively dump god and get stuck in mere ecnomic patterns of behaviour and life .

8 April 2011 at 23:39  
Blogger English Viking said...

Not a Machine,

Forgive my habit for capitalising, won't you?

We (as Christians) must not confuse our ability to conquer the flesh (a spiritual blessing) with other things.

I would put it to you that prayer is a pre-requisite to a successful war, that without it a nation will fail, disastrously. I also say that without extreme violence, and without those that are prepared to commit it, those like David, or Christ (read Samuel, Chronicles, etc, or Christ, yes, Jesus Christ, a very violent man, read Revelation) the nation will also fail.

I commend you for at least thinking, and not spouting off because that is how you have been trained.

Perhaps we could be friends, when it is all over?

9 April 2011 at 00:01  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

A very violent man as in the Lamb with seven horns in revelation.

Moses at the Well with seven sisters.

Plaides star system above the crescent moon, sign of the horns at Easter.

Where is the Sacred in all this.

9 April 2011 at 00:27  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld Ambassador to Vedics and other medical professions + Tiddles said...

Ancient descendant of Vedics from t'north said 9 April 2011 00:27

"A very violent man as in the Lamb with seven horns in revelation."

He destroys them with a Word, not exactly swinging an Axe.

"Moses at the Well with seven sisters." Bill Moses at Sadlers Wells near Seven Sisters tube?

"Plaides star system above the crescent moon, sign of the horns at Easter." This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius! Nice sixties song.

"Where is the Sacred in all this."

Where is the sense?

Live Long and Prosper, my boy!

9 April 2011 at 01:01  
Anonymous not a machine said...

English viking : I am just trying to work some ideas through ,I dont think it is right to ridicule war and conclude concientous objection is how you defeat bad or evil , better men and women than me have died fighting , it is of little use paying respects at the cenotaph , if I didnt really contemplate it as somthing necessary , but there we are until one does contemplate it and understand its forms , we cannot truly say that we have understood it or why it occures.

Of course we can be friends , cranmer allows open discussion , that is how we learn to shape things , I dont/cannot expect us all to be in the same place on issues ,would be very dull.We all still learn from gods teaching right up to the end , I am convinced of that .

As someone who had doubts about the origional Labour HS2 proposal and got patronised as being backward then when I questioned some of the claims .It comes as no surprise that the coalition may have been told it was a good idea by perhaps the same people who were spinning it last time. It is perfectly feasable to ensure that you can run through eurostars from the two biggest cities after london
Future capacity is also important i am trying not to be too harsh ,but i think some mps must have only seen the photo oppertunity of cutting the ribbon on a sexy new train , and not the real nuts and bolts of well used , cost effective and liked transport whose fixed assets are well engineered,efficently utilised and costed not only for passenger use either .I look forward to having a railway, where ones ticket pays for an actual comfortable seat and costs less than an arm or leg to enjoy a day out in the capital never mind 40 mins less journey time.

9 April 2011 at 04:26  
Anonymous len said...

Until the time that Jesus says different we(Christians ) are supposed to be preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ(which is the Power and Wisdom of God)
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is one of hope and salvation offered to Humanity.It does not condemn sinners, the Gospel saves sinners, which is basically ALL of us!
To tell sinners they are going to Hell is NOT the Gospel(although it might be true).
Jesus does not tell us to fight and kill our enemies ,even enemies of the Gospel(we fight NOT against flesh and blood but against Powers and Principalities ,against EVIL in High Places!.
There is MUCH said by Christians which is NOT the Gospel.

Jesus overcame the World(by what ,fighting?)No, by surrendering to the Will of God, the purposes of God.
God uses the weak to overcome the strong that His Glory may be revealed.

When Jesus decides that the time of Grace is over and Judgement begins is entirely in His hands.

Until then;
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)

9 April 2011 at 07:35  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Come back with something of value to say Ernst with your Grammar school knowledge.

You claim to be British, what do you know about the measure of Albion and the perpetual choirs?

9 April 2011 at 08:20  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

" When the storm rages and the shipwreck of the State threatens, we can do nothing more worthy than to sink the anchor of our peaceful studies into the ground of eternity" Kepler

We can't all go to Grammar school, some of us simple folk had to study the Word for ourselves by working hard and buying books.

I hope the fact I am a bibliophile is not too upseting to YGs communicants. I prefer my ignorant simplton image.

9 April 2011 at 08:46  
Anonymous len said...

Having a 'education'is not actually necessary to becoming a Christian, it can actually be an advantage not to have one,( at least not at University level.)
The Apostle Paul is an excellent example.
Paul( an educated man) considered all he knew as being'dung'(being polite)compared to knowing Christ.
All things ,knowledge , wisdom are contained IN Christ.Worldly wisdom actually forms a barrier against the knowledge of Christ (easily seen in the 'intellectuals' such as Dawkins)

God reveals himself to the lowly , the humble in spirit.He chooses the weak things of the World to expose the intellectual, those full of ,and puffed up with ,'Worldly wisdom'.
It was the search for Worldly wisdom derived from a source other than God that led to the fall of man.
So God opened the way back to salvation, to Himself, through the 'foolishness' of the Cross.

9 April 2011 at 10:20  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Bred in the bone quoted Kepler "When the storm rages and the shipwreck of the State threatens, we can do nothing more worthy than to sink the anchor of our peaceful studies into the ground of eternity"_

... good quotation, all too apt. Looking for a source has prompted a search; this was one result: Kepler By Max Caspar 1947. That is about the time when my schooldays started. Thanks to BinB I look forward to continuing by following this up (not forgetting len's remarks).

9 April 2011 at 10:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cameron and Clegg are war criminals following in the footsteps of Blair and Brown.

From day one the “no fly zone” has seen combatants from both sides of Libya’s CIA sponsored civil war killed in air to ground attacks.

9 April 2011 at 10:38  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld Ambassador to Vedics and other medical professions + Tiddles said...

My Dear Bred in the Bone.

Saying my grammar school education means I am being condescending about what you state is wrong.

I am a bibliophile too but you mix indic vedic mumbo jumbo into what can appear as a christian narrative like mormons do (which usually takes precedent over the christian beliefs disclosed), in Ernst's opinion.

If so, how is what you state different from druidic nonsense from Dr Rowan Williams.
These references are as different as East is from West, my boy and condemned by the Almighty as False Religion and False gods.

Mere observations, my lad, expanded and returned in giggle format.

Old Ernsty *Vedic Hand Gesture*

9 April 2011 at 11:48  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Len, MrJ and Ernst...

Why Nebuchadnezzar own magi astrologers and assorted charlatans failed him, the Romans later noted how the Druids of Britain were so advanced with knowlege of the Earth they were most likely the teachers of the way of the magi.

Dr Rowan Williams probably belongs to the Druid order began in the 1700 in preperation to engineer a socialist order.

I am just someone who was always compelled to question and be sispcious, only to find others before me shared the same questions and suspicions.

Thats the difference between being an independant researcher and part of an agenda.

This is Mork from Ork signing off.

9 April 2011 at 12:32  
Blogger English Viking said...


I'm glad that the fate of my country didn't lie in the hands of men like you during WWII.

9 April 2011 at 15:24  
Anonymous richard said...

The war against Islam might have something to do with the fact that they don't charge interest on loans and have a strong sense of community and identity, qualities which have been under attack in the UK by our anti-English governments for decades. Islam is inconvenient to a potentially tyrannical and usury-financed NWO.
When Libya armed our home-grown rebels in Ireland it was a bad thing, but us arming his rebels is not. Eh? I agree with Anon re: Cameon and Clegg. Any of us who still bother to vote are complicit.
English Viking, there is no your country, and there is no nation; these concepts are all in people's heads. A line drawn on a map, a flag, and enabled to run as a tax-farm for the benefit of a few because of the constant suspicion and despair generated against foreigners. Anyone who fights for this crap is a fool. Who gets rich? Not our dutiful armed forces (who are being rewarded for their years of service - shamefully - by redundancies) and not the tax-payer. Just politicos and bankers.

9 April 2011 at 16:13  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Richard, I may have you wrong here, in which case please forgive me, but I reckon fighting for this country is an absolute priority. The 'crap' can be adjusted later, but we must secure the country first. Similarly fighting for an idea, a concept of 'Britishness' is as equally essential.

What is more, we will, I believe, win through.

9 April 2011 at 17:23  
Anonymous richard said...

Oswin, I agree that fighting for the liberties won by our forefathers and which were/are protected by the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights is important, vitally so. But we don't have to fight Johnny Foreigner. He isn't the enemy. With respect the "crap" ie loss of sovereignty and loss of sense of the individual's priority over a criminal State should be fought now, and adjustment - if we win - will be more likely to happen by itself.

9 April 2011 at 19:03  
Blogger English Viking said...

Wot Oswin said.

The crap can be dealt with later, with cheese-wire and lamp-posts.

9 April 2011 at 19:22  
Anonymous richard said...

You might be right.

9 April 2011 at 21:20  
Anonymous len said...

If you could lay your blood stained axe down for a moment.
The concept of a 'just war'seemed to have originated under Constantine earlier Christians refused to fight.
I cannot find anywhere in scripture Jesus urging his followers to fight (unless this was in a spiritual sense) so who do you follow Christ or Constantine?

9 April 2011 at 21:25  
Blogger English Viking said...


I'll follow Christ till I die, I hope.

You're not suggesting that good Christian men, with the will and the way, should have merely prayed whilst the Jews were shoveled into ovens, are you?

A real man prays AND acts. Then he'll stand before his God, and answer for his actions.

I've a lot to answer for, but none of it was cowardice.

9 April 2011 at 22:39  
Anonymous richard said...

Good Christian men did the shovelling. Labelling someone as "other" is the problem. See past the labels and you see a brother. Jesus' message was that everyone is equal under God. There's a place for self-defence, granted, but not following someone else's script - acting, if you will.

9 April 2011 at 23:29  
Blogger English Viking said...


If you think that the Bible teaches that all men are equal, you have either never read it, else wish it said otherwise.

What a silly thing to say.

Let me assure you, you are not my equal.

10 April 2011 at 00:54  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Richard - labelling people as 'other' is a problem highlighted by franco-german filosofers. The business is a perversion and an insult to English language and minds.

The Christian point is that we've all been separated from one another since the Fall. Nevertheless, we may try to unite in loyalty to the One Almighty God; and we may pray for return to his Unity.

However, unity and equality of individuals, in this vile, earth-bound mess, and by order of the big-chief mess-makers, is out of the question.

10 April 2011 at 02:34  
Anonymous richard said...

English Viking, I've read the Bible thouroughly and learned a lot from it. Something about - ah yes - God could make these stones descendants of Abraham, not to mention the parable of the good Samaritan. Also the Centurian, and the tax collector. Equality under God, by reason of an ethical outlook NOT by descent, race, or religion. Mr non mouse, I quite agree - I know who is good or bad, and agree that equality by decree is a vile tyranny, because it's the state trying to dispense with the concept of the worth of the individual. For example have you noticed that drinking is now bad for the NHS or taxpayer, and no mention of improved self-worth or benefits to the individual if they quit?
NB English Viking, I don't know if I'm your equal or not, although I'll wager a trackday with a CBR600apiece would settle the matter.

10 April 2011 at 02:53  
Anonymous len said...

By your own admission Jesus was a coward to have submitted to the men who crucified Him?.Perhaps He should have followed Peters example?

When Jesus`s disciples wanted to call down fire from Heaven Jesus said to them;
"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of."(Luke 9 :54)

Through the ages many have destroyed others in the name of religion. During the crusades people who falsely claimed to be Christians murdered thousands of Moslems. In the middle ages the Catholic church murdered Protestants who dared to reject the authority of the Pope. Some Protestants murdered other Protestants they considered to be heretics.
Much grief is caused in the world today by this same godless attitude. Deceived, warped souls blow themselves up along with innocent men, women and children in the name of their religion.

What is the fruity of the HOLY Spirit love,joy.peace,longsuffering,kindness,goodness,Faithfulness ,gentleness,and self control.
How you attribute your comments on this blog to 'following Christ' I find impossible to understand.

10 April 2011 at 08:28  
Blogger English Viking said...


Christ's death and my own will be for two totally different reasons, so comparisons are not really valid.

If you think the Crusades were merely worldly men, dressed up as Christians, using the Bible as an excuse to kill moslems, you have so little an understanding of history that it makes further discussion useless.

If only everybody was as good a Christian as you, eh?

10 April 2011 at 14:35  
Blogger Ernst Stavro Blofeld Ambassador to Vedics and other medical professions + Tiddles said...


Ernst has a question for you as he agrees with you 99% of the time.

Can a nation be blessed by putting itself under an oath to the Almighty and continue in that blessing if they keep His Commandments and repent if they err from that oath.

Ernst believes that salvations of individuals is different from blessings of a nation that continues in the oath stated to The Lord.

I.e. Nineveh repented after receiving Jonah's message and were blessed and spared from destruction but Ernst doubts the whole of the city became believers by this action.

Are not the responsibilities of a nation to exist different from an individuals Salvation is NEVER lost once believed but Nations can lose their protection and blessing by taking a different path from their stated oath as He, The One True God, holds them to it.

Ernst, my fine fellow.

10 April 2011 at 16:54  
Anonymous len said...

I believe Nations can be blessed by God if they have a core of believers trying to fulfil Gods purposes and commandments. America is a case in point under President Lincoln who called for days of prayer and fasting. America I believe will decline as they become more' multi faith'and secular, and start to withdraw support from Israel.To put conditions on Israel (such as dividing the Land) will put America on a collision course with God!
The U K seems to be increasingly anti- Israel and increasingly secularised and this would be enough for God to withdraw any blessing or protection.Man has free will and God will not interfere with that .We reject God, not Him us!
I believe God will protect individual Christians within a Nation as He keeps a remnant who are faithful to Him when the Nation rejects God.

10 April 2011 at 18:39  
Anonymous len said...

Len 'If only everybody was as good a Christian as you, eh'
There is only one 'good' Christian which is the Lord Jesus Himself. I am a'born again' Christian, sharing the same Spirit as Christ.
So if you perceive anything 'good 'about me I give Him the credit.

Bless you.

10 April 2011 at 18:46  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Johnny @ 19:31:

You're being far too kind!

10 April 2011 at 18:58  
Blogger LobotomySpoon82 said...

Speaking of being 'good', I just discovered today that the word 'nice' originates from a word that had it's original meaning as ignorant and stupid:

"Middle English, foolish, wanton, from Anglo-French, silly, simple, from Latin nescius ignorant, from nescire not to know."

I'm never going to look at that word the same way ever again, lol.

10 April 2011 at 20:16  
Blogger English Viking said...


Well bless you too.

11 April 2011 at 11:33  

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