Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Cameron cannot support Obama’s plan to barter away Israel’s security

Barack Obama continues his whistle-stop tour of Europe today with a state visit to London (England) in the desperate hope of a private audience and photo opportunity with Nick Clegg. The Deputy Prime Minister has hitherto declined to meet with the President, suspicious that all this matey back-slapping is simply a stunt designed to invigorate Mr Obama’s bid for a second term in The White House. Mr Clegg is having none of it: he is determined not to share his aura or sprinkle any of his political gold dust on the re-election of a political minnow who reneges on his election promises.

When the President meets the Prime Minister, talks will be dominated by Libyan landfill, Syrian egg-shells, Pakistani pacification, Afghani armed intervention and a little Palestinian pin-head dancing. But no doubt there will be a full and frank discussion about Israel.

The Guardian informs us: ‘Barack Obama will seek a joint Middle East agreement with David Cameron, insisting that a Palestinian state should be based on pre-1967 borders – a proposal rejected by Israel's prime minister as "unrealistic" and "indefensible".’

A joint US-UK Middle East agreement that Israel should barter away her security and accept a ‘secure border’ approximating to the 1949 armistice lines?

Right.

Let us set aside for a moment the embarrassing fact that Binyamin Netanyahu has said there’s not a hope in sheol of Israel withdrawing to the territorial lines that existed before the 1967 Six Day War. And let us also set aside the even more embarrassing fact that Hamas have said there’s no hope in this life or the next for any Jews living in the ‘occupied territories’ (ie, the whole of Israel, insha'Allah).

When the State of Israel was declared in 1948, hordes of armed Arabs descended to murder her at birth. The UN plan for partition of the land was accepted by Jews but opposed by five Muslim states who decided to invade and rid the land of the descendents of Abraham and Isaac. And Egypt would doubtless have invaded again if Israel had not pre-empted their attack in 1967.

While Israel remains surrounded by enemies – having ceded Gaza to Arab control from whence rain thousands of Katyusha rockets – David Cameron is now being asked to support the Obama plan to revert to the very partition which posed an existential threat to the only democracy in the region. The ‘Arab spring’ has not yet quite sprung enough to persuade Israel that a glorious summer lies ahead: Syria openly supports Hezbollah; Egypt now has the Muslim Brotherhood; Gaza has spawned Hamas; Lebanon hosts a plethora of anti-Israel terrorist groups and Iran is pledged to wipe Israel ‘off the map’: the whole of Arabia is intent on her destruction. And President Obama is here to persuade David Cameron to support a policy which will inevitably result in yet another attempt to drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea. This is not a peace process: it is a plan for genocide on a scale not seen since Auschwitz.

Before he became Prime Minister, David Cameron made a speech in which he proudly identified himself as ‘a Zionist’, which he defined as ‘someone who believes that the Jews have a right to a homeland in Israel and a right to their country’.

His Grace said then that it was a forthright, bold, and (in this day and age) rather brave thing to say. As the Prime Minister meets the President today, he would do weel to remind himself of this section of his speech to the Conservative Friends of Israel:
There is something deep in our Party’s DNA that believes in Israel, the right of Israel to exist, the right of Israel to defend itself and that a deal should only happen if it means that Israel is really allowed to have peace within secure borders and real guarantees about its future… The West has to understand that there isn’t an equivalence between a democratically elected Government of Israel, a state of Israel that is a democracy, that’s a member of the United Nations, that has a totally legitimate right to exist and defend itself – there is no equivalence between that and a group like Hamas. When it comes to Hamas we have to be very clear about the Quartet principles, until they recognise the state of Israel, until they put an end to violence and accept previous agreements, they really have to move toward those principles in a big way before they should get any Western money and Western support.
And when asked about the British ‘loons’ and ‘trots’ who seek to boycott Israel and defame her at every turn, he said:
‘What’s disturbing about it, is it is something that is happening here in the United Kingdom and it’s something that has absolutely no justification because Israel is a democratic country and these Trots as you put it are treating Israel as some sort of pariah state and that is completely wrong. So I have no hesitation in saying yes it may be a bunch of loons but actually what they are doing is profoundly wrong, profoundly damaging and also I think sometimes attacks on Israel can spill over into anti-Semitism, to be frank about it.’
The starting point for peace in the Middle East is not tit-for-tat Israeli-Arab bartering over land, and neither is it dependent on Israeli withdrawal to the arbitrary armistice lines of any era. The path to lasting peace is contingent first and foremost upon an unequivocal commitment by the governments of all Arab states that ‘the Jews have a right to a homeland in Israel and a right to their country’; that Israel has ‘a totally legitimate right to exist and defend itself’. When Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Gaza and the rest of Arabia accept that, they must then proceed to eradicate all expressions of Israel hatred and cleanse their lands of the anti-Semitic extremists in their midst. His Grace is not without hope, but acknowledges that this may take some time.

48 Comments:

Anonymous Voyager said...

Your Grace is sadly misinformed if he can find principle in David Cameron. He is the latest charlatan to occupy No10 and has now met the Unravelling Charlatan Obama.

Far from being a New Broom in Washington he has followed in the footsteps of Kennedy, Nixon, Bush, Clinton and discovered his Irish Roots....."Roots" being the operative word in respect of Obama.

The fatuous spectacle of Irish Peasants singing and dancing for "the Special Relationship" in the hope of economic dole from the USA is as childish as the English Establishment fawning over the Big Brother from the World's Largest Debtor Nation visiting the Land of His Butler in London and being induced to support yet another British Vanity Project in Libya.

It is a sad end to a country which once had some semblance of character to be just another island tax haven pandering to a passing nabob

24 May 2011 10:32  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, communicants wishing to read an exceptionally subtle analysis of O'bama's current gambit should click on this link: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ME24Ak02.html

Those who believe in straight-line extrapolations will be interested in this comment: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ME24Ak01.html

24 May 2011 10:34  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Another recital of facts which some would wish kept hidden,obscured or denied and of which misleaders and misled need constant reminding.

Unhappily the language in which Mr Cameron expressed himself in the speeches quoted raised suspicion then of weakness of character in matters of statesmanship, which has since been confirmed more than assuaged. Here is another opportunity for him to show otherwise and rise above the claim or taunt "H2B". Could he aspire to be "H2D" (Earl of Beconsfield)?

Further comment about that suspended for breathing exercises.

"...unequivocal commitment by the governments of all Arab states that ‘the Jews have a right to a homeland in Israel and a right to their country’..." Certainly de facto, and let the question of "de jure" become a question of world history of the 20c. not a means of continuing to foment breaches of local and international peace and security.

Voyager's lamentation could be re-written in the style of the Psalms of David.

24 May 2011 11:13  
Anonymous MrJ said...

...Beaconsfield... (typo)

24 May 2011 11:15  
Anonymous len said...

You have, your Grace, underlined the basic requirement for a peace agreement.
The recognition(by the Arabs) of the State of Israel.

There can be no'peace talks' until this happens.

It would be the hight of foolishness for the Israelis to give the opportunity to their enemies to move their weapons closer to Israel!

24 May 2011 11:21  
Anonymous len said...

(height)damn this keyboard, must get a new one.

24 May 2011 11:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

There can be no peace.

‘The path to lasting peace is contingent first and foremost upon an unequivocal commitment by the governments of all Arab states that ‘the Jews have a right to a homeland in Israel and a right to their country’; that Israel has ‘a totally legitimate right to exist and defend itself’.’

That has to be the starting point. I cannot even see the Socialist disagreeing with that.

It is fair and reasonable.

But that starting point is highly unlikely to be accepted because it is based on fairness and reasonableness.

And the reason for that starting point being rejected?

I shall leave that to Mr Rottenborough, who no doubt, will support the rejection with quotes.

24 May 2011 11:28  
Anonymous tb said...

Do Celts have a right to a homeland in England - or even in Ireland? Apparently you are happy for Jews to fight to liberate and defend their homeland. But not the Irish. Perhaps you should reflect on these rather blatant double standards.

24 May 2011 11:50  
Blogger English Viking said...

Blogger down again?

24 May 2011 11:57  
Blogger English Viking said...

Oh, it's back.

Your Grace,

Cameron cannot support Obama's plan to barter away Israel's security.

Just watch him do exactly that.

BTW The Jews do not have a right to A homeland IN Israel, they have the right to THE homeland OF Israel.

Very big difference.

24 May 2011 11:59  
Anonymous Quinn Dexter said...

It looks like Obama isn't the only one going back to 1967, as his Grace appears to be doing so as well, because I thought that at least 2 Arab states, Egypt and Jordan actually recognised Israel had a peace treaty with them in 1979?

Also you state that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east- but I thought we'd invaded Iraq to create democracy? So isn't it 2 democracies in the middle east?

24 May 2011 12:00  
Anonymous Alpha Centurian said...

Isn't it also true, though, that many Orthodox Jews don't support the current state of Israel, because that can only be formed when the messiah comes (not Jesus, BTW, because some of you Christians seem to confuse the two religions-Christianity started as a sect of 1st century Judaism, but are seperate now).

Also given that some of the christians here state that the only way to heaven is through believing in Jesus, why do they support the continuation of Judaism- surely Jews have to convert to be saved? Or can I be either a Jew or a Christian and go to heaven?

I especially would like to know English Vikings view and possibly Len's view as they are the ones who mostly go on about 'salvation through Christ alone'.

But I'd be interested to see what the likes of Dodo have to say, from a Catholic view. And perhaps Graham Davies and Danjo.

24 May 2011 12:08  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

The problem with all threads that recur here on this subject is the partisan attitude not to say obsessive defence of Israel by you Christians. I suppose I shouldn’t expect objectivity from those who believe in the veracity of religion but just look for a moment at the political reality rather than seeking justification from biblical texts.

Israel exists, like it or not. Israel see its present borders as not sufficient for a viable State (we have been here before Saddam Hussein, Hitler and countless others) so it seeks to consolidate the territorial gains made in 1967.

Successive US administrations have kowtowed to the Jewish lobby who cry “anti-Semitic” at any criticism of Israel. Arab nationalism failed to counter the influence of Israel and was eventually replaced by Islamic terrorism.

We now live in a world that has been completely destabilised by this problem. The Arabs have found militant Islam to be a much more effective weapon than Arab nationalism. It considers the West and the US in particular responsible for the continued humiliation of the Arabs and has broadened its demands way beyond the Middle East.

This is the result of not standing up to Israel; we now have global Islamic terrorism. It is this attitude, shared by many here, that is responsible for this calamity. You have abandoned justice and equity because Judaism is at the root of your own faith and you must protect it at all costs.

Religion, born of ignorance and sustained by myth and superstition continues to be a source of much of the world’s conflict. You lot are of course blind to this simple truth but one day in the (I am afraid distant) future the world will be free of this curse.

24 May 2011 12:09  
Anonymous Nelson Akroid said...

So to summarise his Grace he is :

1.Slavish Tory

2.Pro-Israel, Anti-Catholic, Anti-EU

3. Insane????

24 May 2011 12:11  
Anonymous Alpha Centurian said...

so Graham Davies, the Christians support Israel because Israelis are Jews and that is where Christianity comes from? But if Christianity is the only way to get this theoretical heaven, why do the Christians support Israel? This is illogical.

24 May 2011 12:15  
Anonymous Mr, A Draconian said...

The trouble is that humans are simple savages,which is why they have all these wars, although I don't think their devotion to their sky gods merely reinforces their primitve cultures, rather than causing them in the first place.

I dread to think what will happen if they ever become capable of interstellar travel. Imagine a galaxy full of English Vikings, Lens and D.Singhs.

24 May 2011 12:24  
Blogger English Viking said...

Alpha Centuri,

My opinion on this matter is that it is possible to be Jewish, in the ethnic sense, and a Christian at the same time, obviously.

It is not possible to practice both the religion of Judaism, regardless of ethnicity, and Christianity at the same time, as they are mutually exclusive.

The Bible is most explicit in the matter of salvation by faith in Christ as the only means of salvation available to man. As you think I 'go on about' this matter, I assume you do not need my to post a ream of verses to prove that this is a biblical view, but if you need them, just let me know.

You are certainly correct that a lot of Christians blur the distinction between Judaism and Christianity. In my opinion this due to the innate corruptness of the human heart, which would rather trust in good works, rituals and temporal blessings, which a superficial understanding of the OT might confer upon the reader, than an acknowledgement that man is thoroughly useless when left to his own devices, utterly devoid of anything of any worth to God, and the only remedy for this situation is a thorough and complete public humbling of oneself at the feet of the only good person that walked the Earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the acceptance of His new life within you, being born again. the latter is NT, commonly known as Christianity, the former is OT, commonly known as Judaism.

This is not to say that OT figures did not require faith, nor that NT believers do not require works (as evidence of, not to earn salvation), nor that the OT scriptures are not crammed with spiritual significance for Christians.

24 May 2011 12:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alpha Centauri

If there are other worlds inhabited by aliens then they will be in desperate need of conversion to Christianity – just like those here who currently reject our faith. The rejection is based on a false consciousness that must be stripped away for the ‘new man to emerge’: to become fully man.

I know that there are some rebels in Africa who claim that ‘Once they had the land and when the Christians came they took the land and gave them the Bible in exchange.’

But what is astonishing about the Bible is that it encourages rebellion against civil authority where the civil powers attempt to become absolute rulers: Give to God what belongs to God and give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

God first, Caesar second.

Now why don’t you drop your shallow criticisms come over to the right side and get with the programme?

24 May 2011 13:14  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Apparently you are happy for Jews to fight to liberate and defend their homeland. But not the Irish

What Irish ? The Republicans got their Free State after launching an Uprising in 1916 as British Soldiers died on The Somme. They had a Civil War because they couldn't agree on their republic and now are a satrapy of the European Union Insolvency Administration.

Northern Ireland had 1,000,000 Volunteers ready to fight to preserve their link to The Crown and many of those men died on The Somme.

There is a Referendum every decade in Northern Ireland since the 1970s and people want to stay in the United Kingdom but it might be sorely tempting to join the South in EU Purgatory.

Did the Romans have a referendum when they expelled Jews from Judea ?

24 May 2011 13:46  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

24 May 2011 13:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah! An anti-theist acts on faith!

Hypocrite: 'my bet is that ...'

24 May 2011 14:04  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

so Graham Davies, the Christians support Israel because Israelis are Jews and that is where Christianity comes from? But if Christianity is the only way to get this theoretical heaven, why do the Christians support Israel? This is illogical.

You may have been correct if faith was based on logic. Instead it is based on a thousand ambiguities and contradictions (unless that is you are a fundamentalist). The believers who post here know that they cannot logically reconcile reason and faith so they attempt to muddy the divide. This allows them to fixate on a subject like Israel without even an attempt at objectivity. They bang on about Judaeo Christian tradition and values because the Jews invented all that absurd Old Testament stuff most of which all but a few absolutely crackpot Christians have long since abandoned.

As far as getting to heaven is concerned my bet is that many here don’t really believe in it but as it is part of the tapestry of their religion and they can’t discard it altogether.

(deleted and reposted due to typo)

24 May 2011 14:16  
Anonymous Alpha Centuarian said...

To the Anon at 13.14.

This is what I am unable to understand. If the only way of life is the Christian one, why support this Israel country anymore than the Arab country? Should not both the Arab and the Jew be converted to the religion if it is the right, the only way?

24 May 2011 14:18  
Anonymous Alpha Centurian said...

Next question: who is Caesar? The global information database of your planet (Wikapedia) indicates this is a type of food? Do the humans have religions based upon food gods as well?

24 May 2011 14:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AC

Yes. Unlikely though. Does not appear to fit in with the timetable for Armaggedon.

24 May 2011 14:27  
Anonymous Alpha Centurian said...

The timetable for Armaggedon? Please tell me more...

24 May 2011 14:32  
Anonymous MrJ said...

English Viking 12:29_A clear statement which even Graham Davis could understand (if not blinkered by the prejudice which feels compelled to remark "Religion, born of ignorance and sustained by myth and superstition...) .

Graham Davis 12:0_ "...humiliation of the Arabs..." ? How does this factually compare with humiliations inflicted by Arabs on Arabs, Arabs on non-Arabs, non-Arabs on non-Arabs, non-Jews on Jews?

And how does any of that rate in international law, including the Charter of the UNO?

And how does reason, or other basis for "secularist" opinion, find the cause of justice and peace advanced by speaking of "you Christians... you lot"? -- particularly when a cursory reading of comments at Cranmer's blog shows so wide a diversity among those who seem to have a position which could be so-called (EV is one among not a few other more or less frequent commenters whose remarks do not seem to be "born of ignorance and sustained by myth and superstition".)

24 May 2011 14:52  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Interesting, Your Grace. Myself, I think Cameron just enjoys the dance moves - another spin will make him feel almost as elegant as the Omega wants to be.

As for the purportedly new aliens on here: you haven't analyzed either His Grace's post or those of his erudite Communicants. If you're remotely interested in doing both, you'll first have to navigate past the pigeons, the NSS and Other.

24 May 2011 15:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AC

We’re still working it out.

Don’t call us.

We’ll call you.

24 May 2011 15:20  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Mr. A Draconian @ 12:24

Now you're talking! I want to be on that spaceship too; hopefully in charge of the brass cannon, or whatever the interstellar-equivalent might then be?

Prepare to run out the guns!

Cosmic bliss; it's what we were made for! :o)

24 May 2011 15:35  
Anonymous tb said...

Voyager
Don't be obtuse. Say Scotland has a referendum, but only after an entirely artificial "border" has been drawn across the country first? Hmm?

And what about the Loyalist protestants who happened to be in the South of Ireland in 1921? Left to their own devices, presumably. Like the Irish Republicans, you can pretend if you like that there were no 'Southern' Irish Regiments on the western front.

My point was really, however, that if you take the of the creation of Israel as a precedent, then most of the English should be returned to Scandinavia, Northern Germany, and Normandy. The Welsh and Irish and Scots should be returned to England - the Scots would have to go back to Ireland first of course - the Americans should be returned to various parts of Europe - and the Native Americans would have an awful lot of lebensraum. The Australians should go back to Europe, mainly England, where they would be just in time to catch the boats back to Northern Germany. Except those descended from Irish emigrants, who could stay in England.

I bet you can see how absurd THIS would be..but the creation of Israel of course makes perfect sense.

24 May 2011 18:49  
Anonymous len said...

Surely every piece of land has been taken by force,no one seems to have a 'divine right' to their particular piece of land (except Israel). Most wars have been fought over land and resources.So everyone should return to their roots(if they can discover where the are)and we start over.?
Is this what you are advocating tb?.

24 May 2011 19:07  
Blogger Lakester91 said...

Israel was land under the protectorate of the British Empire rendered as part of the insolvency of the Ottoman Empire. We did with it what we wanted and set up the State of Israel. There needs no historical justification because it (as heartlessly political as it seems) was under our jurisdiction. The losers of an aggressive war rarely have the right to claim unfairness.

I support Israel's right to exist for pragmatic, rather than ideological reasons. The only stable allies we have in the region are Israel and Jordan. We are there to foster stability for our own ends. But national selfishness is the same reason the leaders of the free world want to sell Israel out to the arabs; because a lot of terrorism (including 9/11) comes from our support of Israel.

Considering I support the existence of Israel, I should also support their right to defensible borders. The claim that the pre-1967 borders were not defensible is completely and utterly persuasive, and I have yet to hear a counter-argument. I once saw a brilliant historical documentary with the Snow's about the Yom Kippur war which showed that their victory against considerable odds was only achieved thanks to their ability to hold off the Syrians to the East. This was only possible thanks to their control of the Golan heights.

If Israel had no control over the Golan heights they would no longer exist as of 1973

24 May 2011 19:21  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Anti semitism again, its nice to know the secular State belive in the sons of Noah.

What about Japheph and Ham, when do they get a look in.

24 May 2011 19:42  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Voyager
Don't be obtuse. Say Scotland has a referendum, but only after an entirely artificial "border" has been drawn across the country first? Hmm?


Scotland should not have a referendum unless England gets one too. Yeltsin took the RFSSR out of the USSR; England should choose whether to remain in the United Kingdom and European Union.

It is England that has been subsumed NOT Scotland or Ireland.

You must of course believe Germany should have Silesia and Danzig and Poland should have Belarus. Personally I feel India should have a border with Afghanistan which the Independence of India Act passed through the Westminster Parliament took from India

24 May 2011 19:53  
Anonymous tb said...

Len you're dead right apart from the "except Israel " bit.

24 May 2011 20:23  
Anonymous tb said...

Criticism of policy regarding Israel is no more anti semitic than criticism of David Cameron is anti English. An utterly infantile response.

24 May 2011 20:26  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Sigh. Guys --- the Celts ARE in England. cf. Sykes and Oppenheimer.

24 May 2011 21:42  
Anonymous tb said...

Non mouse - so according to two guys, everything we learned in history was wrong. So what? What about the other examples?

24 May 2011 22:05  
Anonymous tb said...

Voyager - surely you can see I don't believe ANY of that stuff : that's the point!

24 May 2011 22:08  
Anonymous Huldah said...

Spot on Your Grace.

It was disaappointing to hear Dr Liam Fox at a BICOM conference last week parroting what has become the Government line - that the accord between the openly terrorist Hamas and the equally hostile but more circumspect Fatah parties is to be welcomed as a step towards peace.

Tosh and drivel.

Far from being a step towards peace it now means that British taxpayers are directly funding a Palestinian regime that includes a terrorist organisation devoted to Israel's destruction.

This is disastrous for the UK. According to govt figures in the year up to May 2010 - 2011 we bankrolled the Palestinians to the tune of £67 million.

Why O why are we not ensuring that our aid is at least dependent on the cessation of hate propaganda by Palestinian media outlets and schools.

24 May 2011 22:33  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Your Grace - I hope you'll forgive me once more.

tb- No, not everything. Furthermore, they're not the only two; but they're the ones who've headed up the DNA studies, which you should read for yourself.

They show that we're predominantly Celtic even in England: even in the north and east where the strongest Germanic element survives. It's hard to tell whether that's mainly north German or Viking --- probably Viking. Not to forget, also, that many Vikings came in from their long-established bases in Ireland. Further, the Irish later swept right across what is now southern Scotland and subsumed the Picts.

Well before, predating the Romans and their little number, Celt had long fought Celt. Post-Roman, at the latest, the Celts in England may have done as Bede said, and sought help from Germanic people - some of whom could have already been here.

Each theory lacks evidence, and the written record is often biased. This doesn't mean it contains no truth; only that a couple of tirades aren't the whole story. There are at least three main theories as to how A-Saxons came to dominate Northumbria, for instance, so piecing the interdisciplinary evidence together is always ongoing. Again, you'd need suspend the prejudice and to study the scholarship for yourself.

The other important element is the Harrowing of the North by Billy Conk - in 1969. It's long been known that, after that and 1066, there weren't too many Anglo-Saxons left to tell the tale.

Those euros always come into the flatter lands of England; sadly, we made it easier still, this time, by giving them a tunnel....

25 May 2011 05:59  
Anonymous MrJ said...

non mouse 25 May 05:59_"...Irish later swept right across what is now southern Scotland..." Analysis of DNA data is interesting.

You will know of evidence for influence of Irish/Scots of another sort, about time of Bede and after, in the early days after the Roman Empire in the West had succumbed to Germanic invaders, and before Charlemagne; ["Saint Gall, Gallen, or Gallus (c. 550 - c. 646) was an Irish disciple and one of the traditionally twelve companions of Saint Columbanus on his mission from Ireland to the continent. Saint Deicolus is called an older brother of Gall. Gall and his companions established themselves with Columbanus first at Luxeuil in Gaul. In 610, he accompanied Columbanus up the Rhine to Bregenz but when in 612 Columbanus traveled on to Italy from Bregenz, Gall remained behind due to illness and was nursed at Arbon. He remained in Swabia with several companions, in the forests southwest of Lake Constance, near the source of the river Steinach."]

Notes to surprise a tourist in Vienna at the Schotten Ring tram interchange: "...8c. Irish monks like Saint Colman, buried in Melk Abbey and Saint Fergil (Virgil the Geometer) Bishop of Salzburg for forty years...Vienna's great Schottenstift monastery, once home to many Irish monks." ... "(full name: Benediktinerabtei unserer Lieben Frau zu den Schotten, lit. "Benedictine Abbey of Our Dear Lady to the Scots") a Roman Catholic monastery founded in Vienna in 1155 when Henry II brought Irish monks to Vienna... from St Jakob's, the Irish monastery in Regensburg, Germany." (as in Wikipedia).

25 May 2011 08:30  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

Why is it that the jews according to slimy dave are entitled to a country of thier own,and we are not?

25 May 2011 08:39  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"with a state visit to London (England)"

:)

25 May 2011 18:00  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Regret the delay in replying, MrJ.

Yes, indeed I'm familiar with such Irish contributions. Indeed, I remain mindful of the work of Aidan and others at Lindisfarne, and also that both Alcuin and Aldhelm benefitted from Irish teachers. As Thomas Cahill remarked of the relationship between Anglo-Saxon and Irish scholars, “If Christians of different tribes had in all ages cooperated with one another as did these men and women, the world would be a very different place.”

'bout time we gave the idea another chance?

Cahill, Thomas. How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland’s Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe. New York: Doubleday, 1995; 202.

28 May 2011 23:20  
Anonymous MrJ said...

non mouse 28 May 23:20 Yes, Cahill's "How the Irish Saved Civilization..." was a good and informative read. (Thanks for letting me know elsewhere of you response.)

29 May 2011 00:05  
Blogger Ariadne said...

And spot on, Huldah!

1 June 2011 19:17  

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