Friday, May 20, 2011

Obama turns his back on Israel – 1967 Macht Frei

Bygones, water under the bridge, times have changed and we need to move on. Or at least return to 1967. Perhaps, in President Obama’s mind, winding back Israel’s history 44 years amounts to progress. But not if you’re one of the 300,000 Jews living in Judaea or Samaria: regression to Israel’s 1967 borders would leave very large Jewish settlements under Palestinian control, and ethnic cleansing would ensue on a scale not seen since Kristallnacht. Week after week we would hear (if the BBC bothered) of the systematic slaughter of Jewish families: the appalling fate of the Fogels (DO NOT click HERE if you are of a sensitive disposition) would be revisited upon thousands of other Jewish children and babies as they slept in their beds. The animals who do such things love death more than we love life. “Ehud and Ruth Fogel and their children were representatives of the State of Israel," said Ruth’s brother, as he laid their coffins in the ground. "They died in the name of God, for Israel. We expect the state to do what is right to bring back the national pride and to prevent such incidents from happening again."

And a return to Israel’s 1967 borders will do nothing to prevent such massacres happening again. For ‘the state to do what is right’ there must be internal security and defensible borders. Until a state has established such, there can be no viable state; until a government achieves such, there can be no peace and security. Obama’s incremental plan for ‘mutually agreed swaps’ (though it isn’t clear what Israel gets out of these ‘swaps’) is appeasement of the terrorist aggressor and a betrayal of the friend and ally. After decades of staunch support for Israel – still the only democracy in the Middle East (despite the BBC’s crass assertion to the contrary) – the United States is pinning its hopes on a wave of ‘Arab springs’ which have yet to produce a stable democracy anywhere. By all means, let us encourage those across the Arab world who yearn for justice and freedom from tyranny and oppression. But it is a little premature to be embracing groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, whose ultimate objective is not liberty or democracy but a global Islamic Caliphate ruled by sharia law. The Brotherhood have spawned such terrorist groups as Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and they have close links with Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah. The unifying goal of all is the destruction of the state of Israel.

Back in 2004, the US was committed to ensuring Israel's survival and made it clear that Palestinian refugees would have to settle in a future Palestinian state rather than in Israel. In just seven years – from George W Bush to Barack Obama – the US has shifted from an unequivocal commitment by both Houses of Congress that Israel would not have to withdraw to the 1967 borders, to a policy which will imperil her very existence.

President Obama says: "The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state."

The problem, of course, is that the ‘potential’ identified by Hamas and even some members of Fatah has nothing to do with democracy or contiguity: it is concerned with autocracy and supremacy. There is no border to be shared with Israel because Israel is an illegitimate entity whose destiny is destruction.

Announcing the policy to promote reform and to support transitions to democracy, the President proclaimed: "We support a set of universal rights. Those rights include free speech, the freedom of peaceful assembly; freedom of religion, equality for men and women under the rule of law and the right to choose your own leaders – whether you live in Baghdad or Damascus, Sanaa or Tehran."

Right. Good luck with that.

And why did he not mention Riyadh?

Where in the world has there ever been an Islamic state concerned with the promotion of free speech, the freedom of peaceful assembly, freedom of religion, or equality for men and women under the rule of law? In the beginning was Barack Obama’s word, but the realisation will dawn that it is not with God and it is not God. The President can spout whatever words of laudable objectives he wishes, but he cannot speak meaning into existence. And while he abandons Israel, leaving her alone and isolated in a hostile world, it is worth listening to one of Gaza’s freely-elected leaders, with whom the President is so eager to do business. This is Yunis al Astal, a member of the Palestinian Authority parliament, spelling out his vision for the genocidal annihilation of the Jewish people. As you will hear, he is deeply concerned with establishing a set of universal rights: he is passionate about free speech, wholly committed to freedom of peaceful assembly, enthusiastic about freedom of religion, and utterly dedicated to equality for men and women under the rule of law:

It beggars belief that the United States of America, which was founded upon the philosophical principles of liberty and justice drawn deeply from the Christian scriptures, should abandon Israel to the divine plan of Allah which would give the Arabs ‘the honour’ of annihilating ‘the evil of this gang’. In a few years' time, this democratically-elected Hamas politician predicts, the Zionists will understand that they were brought here for the purpose of being slaughtered in ‘a great massacre’. In language reminiscent of Nazi Germany, we hear the true perspective of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda and Hezbollah: the Jews are more odious than all of the world's lethal birds of prey, dangerous reptiles and lethal bacteria combined.

And Barack Obama wants Binyamin Netanyahu to hand over Judaea and Samaria to Islamic leaders such as these. Was not the plea and assurance of the world after Auschwitz ‘never again’? The only guarantee for the protection of the Jewish people is the defensible State of Israel. If President Obama has conveniently forgotten those millions of Jews who were tortured, choked to death, burned and murdered by the Nazi Amaleks, it is for Prime Minister Netanyahu to remind him that Arab Amaleks are born of the same spirit. Never again, indeed.


Anonymous Sov_Res said...

The interesting and unintended consequence of all this just might be that Allen West will now be able to find the money, a lot of money, Jewish money, to be able to take a run at the White House.

Gosh, I really hope so.

20 May 2011 at 09:47  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

Thank you. A brilliant analysis.

We must do all we can to support our first cousins the Jewish people.

20 May 2011 at 09:57  
Anonymous Matthew Laino said...

His Grace cynically places together a bunch of elderly Marxist/Leninist's, and a gang of Islamo-fascists bent on massacre. Fatah and Hamas are not cut of the same cloth. And to say they are goes to detract from just how evil Hamas really are.

Israel has a right to leave in freedom. If the United Kingdom should stand for anything in its foreign policy, it should be the protection of the Jewish State from its neighbours, on all sides, who wish nothing but death and destruction upon it.

But Israel is currently making it very difficult for its supporters to continue to stand up for its legitimate, sovereign right of security and self-determination. The continued building of settlements is wrong. And it is disrespectful to those who are trying to stand up for Israel.

Eventually they will have to disengage their citizens from their homes in the West Bank, as they did in Gaza. The only way this will ever end is on 67 borders, with swaps. Then the battle really begins.

20 May 2011 at 09:57  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Barack Insane Obama...

20 May 2011 at 10:13  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Matthew Laino said...

'Israel has a right to leave in freedom.'


20 May 2011 at 10:18  
Anonymous Matthew said...

HAHAHAHA Oh dear!!

Israel has the right to LIVE in freedom.

Not leave.

Woh. Apologies to the State of Israel.

My subconscious clearly is Islamo-fascist.

Bad subconscious.

20 May 2011 at 10:44  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

A lot of Americans are not happy having Osama, sorry Obama, as President and it's pretty clear why. Unfortunately, the Islamic appeaser looks set to win another term thanks to a compliant media (BBC included) that lap up stage managed events. Alas Israel must hold out another 5 years until someone like Colonel Allen comes along.

20 May 2011 at 10:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace may find that many in the west do not understand
that our front line is Israel and the second front our own local
governments. Many of the political correct jackasses now in
office through out the free democratic Christian western states
have no idea of their history and may find that we relive it
with a shuddering reality. We have the “fifth column” in our
midst and little being done to eliminate it, as it is not going to
integrate into a free western democratic society. Slavery or
death are the alternatives and our fought for freedoms are
about to disappear.

20 May 2011 at 11:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent, your Grace. 'Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.'

20 May 2011 at 11:51  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Israel’s battle with Islam awaits the countries of Europe unless they institute policies severely to curb the growth of their Muslim populations. Islam divides the world into the House of Islam (countries with a Muslim majority) and the House of War. Islam is under no illusions that it is at war with us; tolerating the enemy can lead only to our defeat.

20 May 2011 at 12:04  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

President obama is a dangerous man; as far as the security of Israel and Christians in the muslim world are concerned. I only hope that he is not re-elected in 2012.
My understanding is that there is no nation called the palestinians. Rather there is a bunch of arabs who occupy land know as Palestine. The Jews were probably in occupation of this land long before the muslims invaded and consequently, I don't see a problem with Israel building settlements there. If the palestine arabs were to be shown some brotherly love by their jordanian kin, they would be incorporated into that country, which is where they more rightly belong. If that was done, there would be no need for constant war with Israel. But of course muslims are determined to kill Jews (and Christians for that matter) until there are none left. So, the best that Israel can do is ignore the wicked entreaties of the current US President and hope for normal service to resume in a couple of years time.

20 May 2011 at 12:35  
Anonymous The Justice of the Peace said...

I understand that many Christian supporters of Israel have as their basis for so doing a messianic belief in the second coming which will take place after Armageddon. Would your Grace and your sympathisers be such staunch supporters without the religious drive to support your politics?

20 May 2011 at 12:50  
Anonymous paleo said...

Well it's not as though the Red Sea Pedestrians can't go back to Manchester is it?

And everybody forgets the Palestinain Christians again....

20 May 2011 at 12:57  
Anonymous Craft For Cash said...

spoke the truth and no man can solve all the world problems, can only suggest but it is up to all Nations their Leaders to deal with their own serious problems and bring change about. Going on for a long long time and nothing other Pres did not give voice to , concern to, or have not ever said.

20 May 2011 at 12:58  
Blogger D. Singh said...

We've been told to watch and pray as He may appear any moment: like a thief in the night.

Which 'Christians' have you been listening to?

20 May 2011 at 12:59  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Have I got this right? Your enemies have the express desire to 'Drive you into the sea' and you are expected to return land which would enable them to do this a little more easily!
Obama does not want a second term it would appear.

20 May 2011 at 13:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace, in a world of sychophancy and historic amnesia, your article is a clarion call.

Those who work for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, bring on themselves their own destruction.

Those who work for the wellbeing of Israel and the Jewish people will propser.

Show me societies and cultures where Jews have prospered and flourished and those societies will in turn be stable and prosperous.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee."
Ps 122:6

20 May 2011 at 13:04  
Anonymous Paleo said...

Which Christians? Right Believing Christians (that is those not of the Latin and Protestant heretical groups)...

20 May 2011 at 13:11  
OpenID scottspeig said...

@the justice of the peace

I fall into your category - and the answer is of course I would.

If, during a war that your enemies started, you conquer their land, it becomes your land.

While the Palestinians still profess to hate Israel, I would not give them a single mm2 of land back.

20 May 2011 at 13:13  
Blogger D. Singh said...


Of course we believe in right - we're Christians.

20 May 2011 at 13:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow I used to think the conspiracy theories that Obama was a Muslim to be completely crazy.

Now I am not so sure, but either way it is not going to be popular with American voters. The evangelical Christian give massive support for Israel. Others will think he is caving into terrorists which the video above suggests is true.

20 May 2011 at 13:28  
Anonymous Paleo said...


Unfortunately you are not Orthodox (to whom Palestine, of course, really belongs, us being the new Israel as it were)...

20 May 2011 at 13:53  
Blogger D. Singh said...

What President Obama should be saying to all the hostile Arab countries that surround Israel, is simply this: you take the Palestinians.

Problem solved.

20 May 2011 at 13:55  
Anonymous Sage said...

Well, correct me if I'm wrong but Fatah is a non-violent secular organisation and does recognise the state of Israel. Hamas and other such Islamist groups are the problem not Fatah.

Is Israel not illegally building settlements in the West Bank? Do the Palestinians not have a right to live in the West Bank (which is their country) in peace like any other country?

Israel is not going to withdraw back to the 1967 borders. I think the Palestinians still have more to worry about than the Israelis.

20 May 2011 at 14:04  
Blogger D. Singh said...

The country belongs to the Jewish people.

The Arab countries could rehouse the Palestinans.

20 May 2011 at 14:18  
Anonymous Gordo said...

"regression to Israel’s 1967 borders would leave very large Jewish settlements under Palestinian control, and ethnic cleansing would ensue on a scale not seen since Kristallnacht."

Surely since 1948 in Palestine! Oh no sorry, all those Palestinians left voluntarily didn't they?

20 May 2011 at 14:34  
Blogger D. Singh said...

These are prohecies written hundreds of years before 1948.

Israel's return...

Israel’s return

Hosea 3:4-5 - "For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days."

Ezekiel 20:34 - "I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered -- with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath."

Isaiah 11:11-12 NIV - "In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."

Isaiah 66:8 NIV - "Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labour than she gives birth to her children."

[The UN resolution]

Isaiah 43:5-6,21 - "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth..."

Psalm 107:2-3 NIV - "Let the redeemed of the LORD say this -- those he redeemed from the hand of the foe, those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.

Ezekiel 36:11; 24 KJV - "And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better [unto you] than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.... For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."

Isaiah 35:1-2 NIV - "The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy...."

20 May 2011 at 14:37  
Anonymous Paleo said...

Indeed, and us Orthodox Christians are the New Israelis. QED.

20 May 2011 at 14:39  
Blogger English Viking said...

When people speak of 'Palestinians', I assume they mean Jordanians and Lebanese?

There has NEVER been a country, language or people called the Palestinians. It is a fiction. They are Arabs.

They have attacked Israel on numerous occasions, notably getting whooped every time, even when holding massive numerical and strategic advantages. They came, they saw, they got whooped and lost land that NEVER belonged to them in the first place. End of story.

Israels patience will wear thin, soon enough.

I hope they remove every last muslim from their land, expand their borders to the Biblical ones and rule with an iron fist.

Things in the world will eventually come to a head, and countries will be forced to either confront this filthy cult head on, with extreme prejudice, or submit to moon worshippers.

BTW If Barack Hussain Obama is not a muslim, I'm a monkey's uncle and if he used the word 'contiguous' with a full knowledge of its correct meaning, this would involve connecting Gaza to the West Bank with a strip of land, bisecting Israel. Never gonna happen.

20 May 2011 at 14:40  
Anonymous Paleo said...

And most Israelis are ethnically South Russians (via Manchester) - so what?

20 May 2011 at 14:44  
Blogger Gnostic said...

The Justice of the Peace.

I am not a sympathiser of Cranmer and I tend to disagree with him over certain of his blinkered aspects of politics. I am also an agnostic so I don't have religious axe to grind. I support Israel because the alternative is to horrible to contemplate. And in this instance I agree with His grace 100%

20 May 2011 at 14:48  
Anonymous Gordo said...

And why is it not possible to discuss middle eastern politics without bringing in Reichskristallnacht/ Nazi/ Hitler/ Aushwitz?

Do you believe Obama is a Hitler Nazi fellow? he looks like an African to me.

And if you must drag in ancient history how about the King David Hotel? Or were they only British Christians?

20 May 2011 at 15:22  
Blogger D. Singh said...

No 1967 borders - armistice lines, yes.

Obama? He wants 1967-1947.

That's what progressives want!

20 May 2011 at 15:26  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Islam could counter Mr Singh’s prophecies (14:37) with a hadith of the Prophet:

He said to them [the Jews of Beit al-Midras], ‘If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land.’

Which holy scriptures bear fruit will depend in part on the fervour of the faithful. In that respect Islam has a head start; every time Muslims pray, they ask Allah to ‘Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favoured, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray.’ Those who have gone astray are the Christians. Those who have incurred Allah’s wrath are the Jews.

20 May 2011 at 15:27  
Anonymous MrJ said...

D. Singh 14:18_"The country belongs to the Jewish people."

Can you say when that ever was so? Or is it no more than the kind of rhetoric that helps no one with real concern for the grave issues being raised here, including @Johnny R.(12:04) and the hatefilled malignity exemplified in the Youtube clip of Yunis al Astal.

The prophecies you have cited at 14:37 are neither documents of title nor instruments of international law. There efficacy and validity is of another kind. (Could the ruler of Vatican City as successor of the Pontifex Maximus make a serious claim to recover Britain and the other territories which were subjugated to Rome, including Europe this side of the Rhine, the Balkans, Greece, Asia Minor, Syria, Egypt, Palestine and North Africa?)

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was made neither to supplant nor to fulfil the Lord's Covenant to the biblical Children of Israel.

What constitutes "the Jewish people" at any time in the past, before the Islamic conquest, and after? Today the expression "Jewish people" includes many of Jewish descent who reside elsewhere and are not citizens of the State of Israel.

After the defeat of Turkey less than 100 years back, the mandate for the territory was given to UK. Soon after the formation of the UNO, the State of Israel was recognised, subject to adverse territorial claims. Citizenship or nationality of the State of Israel is not confined to Jewish people.

And nor can the BBC or UNO General Assembly be relied on to present a true and fair view one way or the other.

20 May 2011 at 15:52  
Anonymous six day war said...

Micah 4 11-13; Now many nations are assembled against you, saying, 'Let her be profaned, and let us look upon Zion'. But they do not know the thoughts of the Lord, they do not understand his plan, that he has gathered them as sheaves to the threshing floor. Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion, for I will make your horn iron and your hoofs bronze; you shall beat in pieces many peoples, and shall devote their gain to the Lord, their wealth to the Lord of the whole earth.

20 May 2011 at 15:57  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Churchill wanted Israel to be part of the British Commonwealth but their militant nationalistic arrogance would not allow it.

Could the Queen not visit to lay some wreaths and apologise for killing members of the Stern gang.

Maybe that would help to highlight their plight.

20 May 2011 at 16:10  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

BITB said

"Churchill wanted Israel to be part of the British Commonwealth but their militant nationalistic arrogance would not allow it."

Sorry my boy but arrogance was not a part of it, just a recognition that they are on their own,'who can be trusted or relied upon except ourselves'.

With 'friends' like us in the West, who needs arab enemies. Betrayal with a smile.


20 May 2011 at 16:22  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

BTW If Barack Hussain Obama is not a muslim, I'm a monkey's uncle and if he used the word 'contiguous' with a full knowledge of its correct meaning, this would involve connecting Gaza to the West Bank with a strip of land, bisecting Israel. Never gonna happen.

An interesting BTW, for surely the evidence that Barack Hussain Obama, at least was at one time a Muslim is utterly conclusive.

Very apparently he was converted into a Muslim by his adopted father, while he was living in Indonesia, to help gain a free state education.

More interestingly he also had to abandon his already tenuous American citizenship in order to obtain such a thing. This as a Indonesian state education was only available to fully, and wholly Indonesian citizens.

Therefore Obama can not be a naturalized citizen of The USA, even if he was born in The USA, which even this has not so far been proved beyond doubt, or to any other kind of satisfactory degree.

It has long since been claimed that the true aim behind the establishment of The State of Israel was to act as a future spark to help ignite a very well planned for WW 3.

Could this be the true reason why The State of Israel is currently being very deliberately apparently destabilized by its greatest ally and investor, The British and American establishment?

IMO it is, however time will tell.

20 May 2011 at 16:24  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

'who can be trusted or relied upon except ourselves'

A motto we need right now Ernst.

The term Palestine is derived from the Paleset sea peoples English Viking and has more to do with teutonic danoi history of the Homer Iliad era.

The northern tribes and Judah need to discover mutual respect in dealing with the middle east problem, or otherwise let Judah go it alone falsely claiming to be Israel.

Search Walter Baucum Bronze Age Alantis, a Jewish writer and truth teller I respect.

20 May 2011 at 16:42  
Blogger Kilsally said...

Yunis al Astal MP sounds like a Sinn Fein MP going on about a United Ireland and the destruction of Ulster - oh thats right there are IRA-PLO murals in Republican West Belfast claiming `one struggle` with masked IRA & Palestinian terrorists holding guns and rocket launchers (google it)

20 May 2011 at 16:44  
Anonymous len said...

America is preparing to 'sell Israel out'. This will be done in the name of the 'rights' of the 'Palestinians'(presumably).

Who are the Palestinians?

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

20 May 2011 at 16:46  
Anonymous Oswin said...

English Viking @ 14.40 :

Well said!

However, the State of Israel is guilty in one very important respect: guilty of the sin of leniency!

Arabs/muslims do not respect compromise; or owt else for that matter, excepting an iron fist. To them it is a weakness. If the arabs had over-run Israel, the jews would have been massacred, or at best, deported.

One wonders if Obama might have lit the fuse to the 'end of days'?

20 May 2011 at 16:53  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Nobody ever mentions the plight of the Yezidiz Devil worshipers, also a people of the book.

People of the book should rally together for truth and justice.

20 May 2011 at 17:17  
Anonymous not a machine said...

A little odd USA should be so prescise on 1967 borders , I just hope there can be dialogue and resolution.

anyway some parts of USA may be (we all may be) having raputure at 6pm tommorow , just hope it looks like cornwall if true.

20 May 2011 at 17:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The pre-1967 borders were also pre-1967 War.

In the 1967 War, Israel was attacked by her neighbors and almost wiped out. That nation won the West Bank and the Arab states lost it as a consequence of Arab aggression A just outcome by any measure.

Tell me why should Israel sacrifice its security to return land that they won fairly after being attacked? Seriously, are there to be no consequeces for Arabs ever?? Is it really just to just let them act any way they want to and for there to be no punishment? How did this idea ever enter the moral dialogue over Israel, that Israel is wrong to take land from states that tried to wipe it off the face of the earth?? How did the idea enter the discussion that Arabs bear no moral responsibility for their actions whatever??

Israel should never cede the West Bank or the Golan, not an acre.


20 May 2011 at 17:56  
Blogger Mike said...

I look forward to hearing the President calling on Congress to give back to the Native Americans the lands which were taken at gunpoint.

20 May 2011 at 18:21  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

The Israelis cannot cede control of the border at the Jordan river. They cannot cede control of the water in the West bank. They cannot allow the Palestinians to create a standing Army. They cannot allow the Palestinians to make treaties with foreign states that might allow the introduction of foreign military forces into the West Bank. Palestinian sovereignty will never be achieved this way. There are too many vital Israeli interests that stand in the way. At best the Palestinians can hope for some form of limited self-government. Actual independence ('67 borders or not) is just not going to happen so long as the state of Israel is strong enough to prevent it.


20 May 2011 at 18:30  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...


The Six Day War was a pre-emptive war. The Israelis struck first in anticipation of an Arab attack. It is an historical counter-factual as to whether the Arabs would have attacked. They certainly were preparing to do so. The Israelis could not take the chance with national survival at stake, and so attacked first to mitigate the risk.


20 May 2011 at 18:36  
Anonymous Bede said...

President Obama's idea seems reasonable. And the USA could then retreat to its 1776 borders.

20 May 2011 at 18:47  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


"...their basis for so doing a messianic belief in the second coming..."

You are confusing brain-dead evangelical Protestantism with Christianity. The two are actually quite far apart. Most Protestants are heretics.

As a Christian, I am for Israel because it is the right thing to do. However many mistakes were made at the end of WWII, however debatable the state of Israel's very existence may be--that time has passed. What are you going to do--ship them all to Connecticut?

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east and it is a friend and ally to the US of long standing. It is the only nation standing between us and a tidal wave of Islamist terror that is rapidly consolidating and rabidly coming to claim us.

To abandon them at this point is to condemn them to genocide. It is not right. It is not just. It is not moral. As a civilized human being I will never abandon them.

20 May 2011 at 19:07  
Anonymous non mouse said...

... but he cannot speak meaning into existence - quite, Your Grace. He does try, and that's perhaps why I can't stand the man's voice.

Analysis of my reaction suggests that it's partly because he's aping MLK, or even JFK. On one hand, the memory of their failings only augments his falseness. On the other, I think their rhetoric was effective because it arose from seeds of hope, sincerity, good intentions, and greatness - rather as Churchill's did. Obama's speech, though, is oleagenous if not oleaginous - pure cosmetology. My skin crawls at the sound, and I have to switch off every time. So there's no surprise that his policies favour the Enemy.

I just hope the effect won't be cosmic! {One assumes Harold Camping will go the way of Mother Shipton :)}

20 May 2011 at 19:27  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Sov_Res believes Jewish money controlling the White House is the solution.

I was of the impression special interest groups controlling politicians was our problem.

20 May 2011 at 19:34  
Anonymous non mouse said...

And Mike @ 18:21 --- Yes. When they wax righteous, Americans and their newer immigrants are inclined to forget this original sin.

20 May 2011 at 19:36  
Anonymous MrJ said...

len 16:46_" ...Walid Shoebat 'Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?' .... - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag' ”.

Jerusalem Post 01/19/2011 "Palestinian flag in Washington ruffles feathers .... Some in Washington opposed the move including House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairwoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [who]
said the flag-hoisting continues the effort on the part of Palestinians to be recognized by foreign governments, and that it’s “part of the same strategy aimed at extracting concessions without being required to meet international commitments.” "

20 May 2011 at 19:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Caroline Glick's canny reading of events:

Obama's abandonment of America

"Conceptually and substantively, Obama abandoned the US alliance with Israel."

20 May 2011 at 19:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Supporting the indefensible. Illegal wall, illegal displacement of Palestinians and war crimes. It is an ephemeral and artificial Crusader kingdom type of state that will inevitably vanish in the foreseable future.

20 May 2011 at 20:35  
Anonymous Tarka the Rotter said...

I weep...........

20 May 2011 at 20:38  
Anonymous len said...

If America deserts Israel,which I believe it will do under the Obama administration this will encourage the enemies of Israel to gather against her.
This is all foretold in Bible prophesy.
We are well and truly in 'the last days'.
For the Muslims, Jerusalem and the temple mount are very important. They believe that having the temple mount in their possession shows the world their faith is the 'final truth'. In 1967, Israel took the eastern half of the city, the temple mount, the walled old city, and the Mount of Olives. That was so awful, they don't even have a word for it. In the Arab world, they don't even acknowledge the state of Israel in most of their textbooks. And they are convinced it will be reversed; Allah will give them back........ Jerusalem.
And of course Jesus`s return is scheduled to the ..............Mount of Olives,Jerusalem.

God says "On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves." (Zechariah 12:3)

This small strip of land is absolutely vital to Christians, Jews, and Muslims,probably the most contested piece of land on Earth.

20 May 2011 at 21:26  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Kol HaKavod, Your Grace!

And Carl, your perceived solution sounds close enough to the intentions embodied in the Mandate.

20 May 2011 at 21:32  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Len W 21:26 ---So that's why they're all over us!! We were trying to build Jerusalem here!!!!

20 May 2011 at 21:35  
Blogger English Viking said...


The word 'Palestine' is derived from the Roman Empire's renaming of Israel and the provinces after the Jews' most hated enemies - the Philistines, just to rub their noses in it after numerous rebellions.

Until 1967, the only Palestinians were Jews.

20 May 2011 at 21:49  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Thanks for that take EV because that would link in with the Teutonic Knights connections with the Crusades, as the Biblical Philistines were the Paleset, who became Phoenecians.

Now the archaic word for Jews is Yewes, which is Indo European for Judiciary, also anciently known as Yeo, which became Yeoman.

Now how did our Yeoman get labelled Beefeaters, can it have any connection with the Mahabharata story of the 'Pani' Phoenicians.

Some open study and truth is all we ask, rather than narrow minded self interest. Virgils salad bowl demands it.

20 May 2011 at 22:24  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, Israeli is indeed in mortal danger, thanks to the traitor Obama. Israeli PM Netanyahu is the man for the times and has already rejected Obama's proposal.

Obama must have a political death wish. The US electorate will simply not accept this betrayal of a vital Western position in the Middle East.

It is to be hoped that Dave and other EU leaders will reject Obama's call and declare unconditional support for Israel.

If Obama wants to do something useful in the Middle East he should demand that the Saudi monarchy permits elections and reforms itself on constitutional lines, thus embracing the Arab spring before it is overwhelmed.

Communicants should not forget that the Saudi monarchy has so far invested USD 46 billion in building mosques and madrassars in the rest of the world in order to promote their Wahhabist Islam.

They seek our destruction.

20 May 2011 at 22:39  
Blogger David Lindsay said...

Now is the moment for a Palestinian Declaration of Independence. It must explicitly lay claim to the whole of the viable Palestinian State created on both sides of the Jordan in 1948. Furthermore, it must mirror the Constitution of Lebanon in guaranteeing the Presidency to a Christian even if it guarantees the Premiership to a Muslim (as would have happened electorally anyway), and it must mirror the Constitutions of Lebanon, of Iran, and of Palestine east of the Jordan, the present Hashemite Kingdom, in guaranteeing parliamentary representation to Christians, as well as mirroring Syria is establishing Christian festivals as public holidays. And it should place the new state - not only the Christians, but the State and everyone in it - under the protection of each and all of the remaining sacral monarchies, there being no other kind, in Christendom.

Thus would that State, and those who looked to its creation, be placed under the protection of the world’s Christian monarchs and of all who professed allegiance to them. Those are the monarchs of Andorra, of Antigua and Barbuda, of Australia, of The Bahamas, of Barbados, of Belgium, of Belize, of Canada, of the Cook Islands, of Denmark, of Grenada, of Jamaica, of Lesotho, of Liechtenstein, of Luxembourg, of Monaco, of the Netherlands, of New Zealand, of Norway, of Papua New Guinea, of Saint Kitts and Nevis, of Saint Lucia, of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, of Spain, of the Solomon Islands, of Swaziland, of Sweden, of Tuvalu, of Tonga, of the United Kingdom, of the State of the Vatican City, and the Paramount Chief of the Great Council of Chiefs of Fiji, together with all Christian subnational monarchs throughout the world, and together with all Christian Heads of deposed Royal Houses. 18 of those figures are the same person. Guess who?

This would also be a wider appeal, an appeal to any and every country that regarded Christianity as fundamental to its identity. Does the American Republic so regard itself? Does the Russian Federation? Do the republics of Europe? Do the republics of Central America, South America and the Caribbean? Do the republics of Africa? Does any other country? In each country’s case, how it responded to this Declaration would be its definitive answer to that question.

At the very least, this needs to appear over the names expressing the full authority of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate, the Latin Patriarchate, the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Patriarchate, the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land, the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate, the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate, the Greek-Melkite-Catholic Patriarchate, the Ethiopian Orthodox Patriarchate, the Maronite Patriarchal Exarchate, the Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, the Syrian Catholic Patriarchal Exarchate, and the Armenian Catholic Patriarchal Exarchate. That would have an immediate and a very dramatic impact in all of the countries named or referred to above. But time is now of the essence.

20 May 2011 at 23:47  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

Matthew Laino said...
The continued building of settlements is wrong.
20 May 2011 09:57

Why is it wrong?

It would be perfectly OK for Jews for example to build settlements as you call them in Stanford Hill or Golders Green, so why not anywhere else in the world, if they so wish.

Muslims have all but made parts of large so called Christian cities their own, so why not JEWS in so called Muslim countries.

Could the primary reason be religiously inclined racism on the behalf of Muslims?

No, it is not the PRIMARY reason, however it is an important factor.

The real reason is much worse then simple endemic religious hatred or racism. If you wish to become educated as to what this much worse reason is, then please read on. If not scroll down, if you have not done so already.

What would make it very difficult to support exclusively Jewish settlements in places like the West Bank, would be if the Arab section of the people had shown that they could, as well as intended to live in peace side by side with other people who did not share their own religion.

In which case it would be impossible to argue that Arabs should not also be allowed to build settlements of their own, right next to Jewish ones, or where ever else they so pleased.

Have you ever been to places like the West Bank of The River Jordan?

I have many times, and I can tell you this.

There is plenty enough room for everyone, who might have the slightest inclination to want to be there. Indeed if 2 million people can, and do live in almost perfect harmony on baron rocks the size of Hong Kong Island, then 20 million could live in the West Bank area, and there would still be plenty of room for many more.

Why exactly anyone in their right mind would seriously want to live in an area like the West Bank completely defeats me, as the place resembles Sodom after much of its inhabitance had been turned into pilers of salt.

Now I am getting to the point.

However the real problem is cruelly created, MURDEROUSLY COUNTE-PRODUCTIVE, VIOLENCE.

Let me completely assure you that terrorism has NEVER achieved anything, unless it was the planned result of a partly home grown conspiracy. Yes, that old chestnut.

IMO, The IRA has long since worked in conspiracy with The British Establishment, whether hardly anyone who were in the IRA, or who were working for The British Establishment at the time new it, or not.

Indeed this is not my opinion it is the well documented FACTS of the matter. Several X members of The IRA left the organization as long as 30 years ago because they strongly suspected, or indeed knew for certain, that it had been subverted, or infiltrated by undercover MI5 agents to its very top. In much the sam way, and for very similar reasons that MI6 was subverted by people who thought they were really working for The Soviet Union. Which they were, but the KGB, were also secretly working in conspiracy with The British Establishment.

This is why The IRA has not still, and never will achieve anything whatsoever that The Establishment did not, or does not want them to achieve. This very much including the murder of many perfectly innocent human beings, as well as the eventual unification of Ireland or not.

The exact same can, and should be said about all other terrorist groups, as well as the people who secretly finance, and so secretly control them.

Such is the nature of the establishments beast, at the very top of The Pyramid of Power.

You may ask for proof. I say I don't need any, even though much exists, is very much in the public domain, as well as largely self-evident. For the evidence is all around us. If you cannot see what is so easy to find, is not my fault, it is yours.

20 May 2011 at 23:52  
Anonymous Jim the ET (Well Gelsie 581) said...

Wasn't God being a bit stingy when he have his chosen people such a small bit of land? Why not something bigger?

21 May 2011 at 00:08  
Blogger English Viking said...


Dude, you've lost me. Either I'm too thick, you're too clever, you're on drugs (and shouldn't be) or I'm not on drugs (and should be).

I could argue the toss with anyone who wants to on the 'holy land', and be confident to hold my ground (no pun intended).

But at the end of the day, might is right, Israel's might dwarfs that of its local enemies and God will fight on their side, if they let Him.

I don't really care about the legalities of '67 or '73 or '48. What is, is. I care about now, and the next day. And all I can see in the coming days is an increasingly belligerent enemy of Israel, pushing its luck to the point that it gets whooped, again.

Only this time, the death-toll will make WWII look like a stroll in the park. And there will be nothing left of those that stand against Israel.

21 May 2011 at 00:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Len said :
"This small strip of land is absolutely vital to Christians, Jews, and Muslims,probably the most contested piece of land on Earth"

But why my dear Len? I just cannot understand you humans (well sometimes). Couldn't these humans settle things over a pint?

21 May 2011 at 00:15  
Anonymous Grey Alien said...

I've always thought English Viking to be the most rational human to comment on this blog. Clearly this Islam thing threatens to engulf your species into a dark age of warfare... when you could be making love to nudist Draconians...
If only I was allowed to give you a few advanced weapons, sort the buggers out as you english say. But, alas I can't and all I have is platitudes to give.

21 May 2011 at 00:18  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Then care about your own EV.

21 May 2011 at 00:19  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Why is it that all discussions on this blog are based on the assumptions that Israel are always right; Israel is a democratic state and therefore entitled to use its superiour power to get what it wants; all Palestinians are Islamists who want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth; all Arabs are Facists who want war; and the world, because the Bible says so, needs to support Israel regardless of its actions?

Simplistic, simplistic, simplistic ...

Some political movement is needed and I welcome Obama bursting the Israeli bubble that the USA will always support them. A big political risk given the political and religious Zionist lobby in America.

Why not go back to 1967 borders? And why not give the Palestianians (or, as some prefer, Arabs living in Palestine) a State? It's not appeasement - its justice!

21 May 2011 at 00:24  
Blogger English Viking said...


Why not go back to '67 borders.

What if I was to advocate that Eire go back to 1920 borders?

See, you don't like the one, but advocate the other, for nothing other than tribal allegiances, but condemn others for those very same allegiances when your tribe is not involved.

Your lack of self-awareness and levels of hypocrisy are breath-taking.

Grey Alien,

A compliment? On this blog? I must be seeing little grey men!

21 May 2011 at 00:56  
Blogger English Viking said...


They are my own. And I care.

21 May 2011 at 00:58  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Then go there and support the cause EV, because here in the British Isles we have our own concerns.

Brits who believed in Hitler joined the Frei Korps.

Brits who supported Communism fought against Franco's Spain, choose a side because I have nothing against Brits with confused ideologies, just go and fight where your heart belongs.

Mine belongs here in Britain, for kin and country.

21 May 2011 at 01:21  
Blogger English Viking said...


You make too many assumptions.

You have no idea where I am or what I do.

I'll give you a teaser; I'm not (currently) in GB.

I'm like dog shit - I get everywhere.

21 May 2011 at 01:38  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking ...

Do think before tapping those stubby fingers.

The Irish Free State was the result of a bi-lateral treaty between Britain and the representatives of Eire, in 1922. It followed years of political inertia and was prompted by a legitimate civil uprising, supported by the vast majority of the population, and ousted a foreign colonial power.

Israel unilaterlly declared indendence in breach of a United Nations mandate. It was a 'State' manufactured by the West to establish a liberal democracy in the region for political and malitary strategic reasons. An initial minority, expanded by illegal immigration, imposed its will with superior fire power and terrorist activity against Britain, who was acting on behalf of the international community. Ever since it has ignored international opinion and extended its boundaries, refused to implement agreements to restore borders, and been uncooperative in seeking lasting peace.

Ummmm ... 1920 Ireland - 1967 Israel?

21 May 2011 at 02:00  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking said ... (of himself)
"I'm like dog shit - I get everywhere."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't dog shit full of nasty bacteria, messy when you pick it up on your shoe and awefully smelly?

A toxic, odious nuisance?

Yep, I completely agree with you Viki!

21 May 2011 at 02:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From David Lonsdale

The furure of the land of Israel was decided when God made his covenant with Abraham and reaffirmed it to Moses and Joshua. God will have his way and neither the Arabs or Obama will change his mind. I doubt that Obama has read the Bible but if he did he would find these verses useful in any future negotiations.

"To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates" ( Gen 15:18 ).

A detailed description of the land's borders was given to the children of Israel as they were about to enter the land after four hundred years in Egypt. Numbers 34:1-5 sets forth the southern borders of the land of Canaan. The general line of the southern border is from the Dead Sea, through the Wilderness of Zin to Kadesh Barnea. It then turns north to the "Wadi of Egypt" and the Mediterranean Sea. Joshua gives a similar description (15:1-4). The identification of the "Wadi of Egypt" is the only point in question in this passage. Some have suggested it is the Nile River or one of its tributaries. Most Bible atlases place it at Wadi el-Arish. Recently, N. Na'aman of Tel Aviv UNIVersity suggested that the Brook of Egypt was the Nahal Basor, just south of Gaza. The territory south of the Wilderness of Zin (called the Central Negev Highlands today) belonged to Edom. The Aravah and the mountains to the east of the Aravah were also Edomite territory. Eilat, the seaport on the Red Sea, belonged to Edom ( 1 Kings 9:26 ).

The western border of the land of Israel is the "Great Sea, " the Mediterranean Sea ( Num 34:6 ).

The northern border goes from the "Great Sea" (the Mediterranean) to Mount Hor and continues on to the entrance to Hamath; then the border goes to Zedad, proceeds to Ziphron, and ends at Hazar Enan ( Num 34:7-9

Its northern border is the River Euphrates.

It is all only a matter of time.

21 May 2011 at 02:13  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Not too many assumptions, just the assumption you should go to Israel and fight for what you believe in.

My kin, Erie, Scotia, Kymry and Tuatha de danann, need a little time to sort out our own polity.

We are all interelated for crying out loud.

We want an end to trouble and strife in our Isles and affairs, let alone shooting at each other over Israeli Palestinian spits 'o' land.

Its time for Gallo-Teuntonic union and Truth against the World in the face of the Sun.

21 May 2011 at 02:32  
Blogger English Viking said...


Again you make the assumption that I am in one place, when I am in another.

Mr Lonsdale appears to have grasped it.


Put up, or shut up..

Scriptures for salvation by works, and salvation by baptism, please.

Oh, you haven't got any, because you are all piss and wind.

Why am I not surprised?

BTW Please don't bleat over the scriptural use of the word 'piss'.

21 May 2011 at 03:39  
Blogger English Viking said...


You assume you know which country I am in.

You don't.

21 May 2011 at 04:20  
Anonymous len said...

What a lot of people don`t seem to realise is that God calls Israel HIS land.

"I will gather all nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat (which means 'the Lord judges'); then I will enter into judgement against them concerning My inheritance, My people Israel, for they scattered My people among the nations and divided up My land." (Joel 3:2)
So all that come against Israel have declared themselves to be enemies of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Israel is by no means perfect, and I believe mostly secular, but God`s plans are by no means finished for the Jewish people and those who wish to'wipe them out'and disposes them of their inheritance (the Land of Israel )will answer to God.

21 May 2011 at 07:26  
Blogger Reggie Perrin said...

An extraordinary and disappointing post, and I say that as a supporter of the State of Israel.

I like reading much of what Cranmer has to say, because it is often interesting and thoughtful even where I can't agree with the premises. But this is just a tendentious, one-sided rant. As a piece of political commentary, it can with profit be disregarded.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a complex and bitter problem, and understanding of it in the West is not helped by cheap, emotive propaganda like this.

21 May 2011 at 09:35  
Anonymous MrJ said...

David Lindsay (20 May 23:47) draws attention to much that should be brought into consideration. Some reservations:

1) For technical and practical reasons, this could not properly be called a Declaration of Independence (for reasons too detailed and pedantic to elaborate here, but almost self-evident).

2) Some attention should be given to the Declaration of Establishment of State of Israel of 14 May 1948.

3) The tradition of recurrent rancour among the clergy and ecclesiastical authorities in connection with the Church of the Holy Sepulchre could be relevant.

4) The Mosque on the Temple Mount can be seen as, to say the least, anomalous. Possibly all parties could join in treating it as a House of Reconciliation, a monument of lamentation for iniquity and waywardness before God, a place of contrition for those things done that ought not to have been and for things not done which ought to have been, from the beginning of human destiny as recounted in the Books of Moses and of the Prophets of Israel.

5) Also to be taken into consideration: some of the remarks about the West Bank from Atlas s. (23:52), and of EV (21 May 00:11 and 00:56) and of Dodo (02:00).

6) On David Lindsay's biblical citations at 02:13, the same comment as at 20 May 15:52, so far as applicable.

Kyrie eleison.

21 May 2011 at 09:38  
Anonymous derek M said...

Arab Nationalism was fostered by Hitler in the 1930s as another way to cause trouble for the British, The Ba'ath Party of Syria and late of Iraq, was based on the Faschist Party of Italy. The antisemitic rantings of the Arab leaders is just carrying on the works of Adolf Hitler. Perhaps Obama, and a few others need some history lessons.

21 May 2011 at 10:20  
Blogger Ariadne said...

derek M, absolutely correct. What is now Birzeit University was originally founded, I believe as a school, with Nazi gold.

And we do know where Nazis got "their" gold.

There is also the matter of the Muslim Waffen SS recruited by the Nazi "Grand Mufti" of Jerusalem.

21 May 2011 at 12:34  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

EV you assume that I am assuming things.

Assume away, preferably from the political geographical location named Israel.

21 May 2011 at 20:47  
Blogger A_Nonny_Mouse said...

re: carl jacobs - 20 May 2011 18:36

The Six Day War was a pre-emptive war. The Israelis struck first in anticipation of an Arab attack. (etc) ..."


Interesting that Bookworm Room just ran excerpts from Life Magazine's 1967 commemorative issue on the Six Day War.

link at

Interesting to note that, back then, the MSM assumed that Israel had a legal and moral right to defend itself. Not the case any more, is it?

22 May 2011 at 04:59  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The jewish diaspora have lived amongs other Nations for nigh on 2000yrs

The State of Israel is a testimony to their failure to assimilate, just as the moslems are failing to assimilate into European and British cultures of the west.

Except that many Jews were happy to assimilate, it was the Anglicans obsesssion with the Messiahs return which pushed for the present situation.

Trouble is they had not forseen the idea being hijacked by Radical Christ hating Jewish Nationals.

22 May 2011 at 08:08  
Anonymous len said...

The State of Israel is a testament to Gods Word.

The Jews have kept their culture throughout worldwide persecution.

22 May 2011 at 08:21  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Bitb "...the Anglicans obsesssion with the Messiahs return which pushed for the present situation..." : only one strand of the story and not necessarily decisive--and it was not Anglicans as a whole, and there were also others. Was Lloyd George an Anglican? The policy of HMG had also been affected by the policy of the Kaiser and of the Tsar (and of course the French).

22 May 2011 at 16:25  
Anonymous Huldah said...

Well said, Your Grace!

For those who suggest that Hamas are extremists whilst Fatah are moderate, may I suggest a glance over this article

which sets out the way in which both Hamas AND Fatah indoctrinate their children to hate Israel and Jews and aspire to martyrdom in the cause of Israel's destruction.

Such brainwashing would endure in the Palestinian psyche for at least two generations even if it were to cease tomorrow in Palestinian schools and on the Palestinian media. It's hard to see how Israelis can be anything other than defensive knowing that their neighbours are prepared to bring their children up to hate in this way.

22 May 2011 at 22:53  
Blogger robertatforsythe said...

I am usually impressed with your posts but not on this occasion. I find it hard to understand how Jesus would condone the mass thievery that the establishment of the 1948 state of Israel amounts to. To my mind, Jews who live in Palestine should only be there where they can prove before an international court of law proper title to land and that should be that.

23 May 2011 at 07:05  
Blogger D. Singh said...

MrJ has left a new comment on the post "Obama turns his back on Israel – 1967 Macht Frei":

D. Singh 14:18_"The country belongs to the Jewish people."

Can you say when that ever was so?

Genesis 12 v. 1 Now the LORD said unto Abram: 'Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee.

23 May 2011 at 07:29  
Anonymous Free Online Tutoring said...

Obama’s plan for a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders was welcomed by key global players Friday including the European Union, the United Nations, Russia, the Palestinians and parts of the Arab world.

23 May 2011 at 08:34  
Blogger D. Singh said...

‘On November 2, 1917, Lord Arthur James Balfour, Foreign Secretary and past Prime Minister of Great Britain, issued the famous Balfour Declaration, that posits the founding of a national home for the Jewish people in the land of Israel. Its authors were referring to the Biblical borders of Israel, with whose boundaries the English people were familiar from studying the Holy Book, that land which lay on both sides of the Jordan River, extending from the northernmost Golan Heights to Aqaba in the south, close to 116 thousand square kilometers.

‘In 1920, the San Remo International Conference confirmed the Balfour Declaration and gave Britain the mandate over both sides of the Jordan River. King Feisal of Iraq, in the name of the Arab delegation to the 1919 peace conference after WWI, wrote: “Our delegation here in Paris are fully aware of the suggestions the Zionist Federation made to the peace conference. In our eyes they are modest and fitting, and we will do our best to have them accepted. We will welcome the Jews warmly when they come home.

‘The plan to partition the land of Israel west of the Jordan River, as suggested by the Peel Committee in 1936, was called “a midget-sized Jewish country”, by revisionist leader Zeev Jabotinsky, in his 1937 speech before Parliament. The heads of Jewish settlement in Israel declared that even if the Jews are forced to accept the partition against their will, they see it as a temporary solution. Chaim Weizmann, later Israel’s first president, said: “This is an arrangement that can last 25-30 years”, and David Ben Gurion, later to be Israel’s first Prime Minister, reacted: “I see our future as cancelling the partition, once we have become secure in our state”.

‘In 1947, the United Nations Assembly ratified the Partition Plan, a decision that led to the declaration of the state of Israel on the tiny bit of land left for the Jewish homeland. Our capital,Jerusalem, was divided in two, and her heart, the site of our Holy Temples, was outside our borders. All the parts of Israel that had been clearly promised to us by God were also outside these borders.

‘The Arabs never accepted the Partition Plan and, led by Amin El Huseini, continued their terror attacks against the Jewish people. Huseini met with Hitler in Bernlin at the height of WWII in order to plan the extermination of the Jews in Israel and the east.

‘Immediately after the declaration of Israel’s independence on May 15, 1948, the armies of 7 Arab states invaded the fledgling country to attempt to murder all its Jewish residents.

23 May 2011 at 09:30  
Blogger robertatforsythe said...

The overwhelming problem of this SAD SAD debate which has proved a killer is that from whichever side the protagionists come ETHNICITY and religious orientation are allowed to take the lead. I naively thought the purpose of Jesus' mission was to close that door. Evidently I misunderstood this. And most modern politicians are agreed that politics founded on a bias involving the likes of ethnicity or gender comes acropper. I don't mean to finger point at one side or another. All human beings have to learn the lession.

23 May 2011 at 10:17  
Anonymous tory boys never grow up said...

Of course what you say about Obama wanting a return to the 1967 borders would be problem if that is what he actually said - but he didn't

He said something quite different if this almost verbatim report from the Guardian is to be belived

"He was applauded for that. He went on: "The world is moving too fast. The extraordinary challenges facing Israel would only grow. Delay will undermine Israel's security and the peace that the Israeli people deserve."

He began his speech with words aimed at placating the audience, stressing that the US commitment to Israel is "ironclad". He said that his comments about the 1967 border with mutually-agreed land swaps had been misrepresented by some. It has long been the US position. Netanyahu may explain over the next two days why he was so exercised about the issue.

Obama said on Sunday that the 1967 border would only be a starting point: "By definition, it means that the parties themselves – Israelis and Palestinians – will negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on June 4, 1967. That is what mutually agreed swaps means. It is a well known formula to all who have worked on this issue for a generation. It allows the parties themselves to account for the changes that have taken place over the last 44 years, including the new demographic realities on the ground and the needs of both sides. The ultimate goal is two states for two peoples."

As someone who has frequently been accused of zionism, nazism and worse for arguing for the right of Israel to exist and that a two state solution is the only workable solution for achieving some semblance of peace and stability within the region - could I suggest that Cranmer and his supporters rather than rubbishing any such proposals please have at least the decency of explaining how what they propose (i.e. keep the post 1967 borders in their totality) will do anything to improve the matter and would not actually be the most effective recruiting sargeant for the likes of Hamas

23 May 2011 at 10:28  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Calm down dear.

In my opinion, although I find this difficult to write; there will be a two-state result in the short-term.

This is likely be followed by a 7 day war - Israel will win - extending his boundaries to points reflected in ancient times.

23 May 2011 at 11:02  
Anonymous len said...

True ,Mr Singh.
History will repeat itself.

The 1967 borders will just give Hamas( who are not interested in peace at all) better sites for their rockets and artillery.
More innocent lives will be lost in the Arab (there are no 'Palestinians)
desire to destroy the Jewish State.

People are trying to find 'solutions' to the Arab/Israeli conflict without knowledge of past history and the spiritual content of this battle.To see this conflict in 'humanistic' terms is to go into this situation blind.

24 May 2011 at 07:46  

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