Wednesday, May 25, 2011

The Special Relationship and the foundation which dare not speak its name

As the taxing of tea and agitations for independence were gradually forgiven (if not forgotten), the relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom became one of the closest and most enduring bonds in global geopolitical history. Yesterday, both President Obama and the Queen paid tribute to our standing ‘shoulder to shoulder’ through a century of appalling bloodshed: the US came to assist us in our darkest hours of need and the UK did not hesitate to offer unconditional support in the wake of the events of 11th September 2001. Churchill and Roosevelt had a close personal relationship based on trust which was pivotal to the ultimate success of the Allies in World War II. The ‘special relationship’ became virtual betrothal during the coinciding premierships of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan: he called her ‘the best man in England’; she once said he was ‘the second most important man in my life’. The Blair-Clinton years were relaxed and friendly, and the Blair-Bush era was (perhaps surprisingly) one of mutual reciprocal admiration and honour-conferring.

As Barack Obama and David Cameron make their high-fives for the media, the warm, respectful and inoffensive speeches about our long, shared history are listened to attentively. But things are different. It is hard to forget that one of the very first acts of this President was to return (rater rudely) a bust of Winston Churchill which had stood in the Oval Office as a symbol of our nations' friendship. Certainly it was ‘on loan’, but the tenure was permanent. Its abrupt return was not merely undiplomatic; it was perceived as a distinct downgrading of the special Anglo-American alliance: this President would deal with ‘Europe’ (ie the EU), not simply one entity within. Just a few months later he was singing the praises of France, absurdly declaring: “We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy, and the French people.” Nile Gardiner has faithfully chronicled these insults against Britain. He rightly observes: ‘ suggest that Paris and not London is Washington’s strongest partner is simply ludicrous... such a remark is not only factually wrong but also insulting to Britain...’

More recently, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has supported Argentina’s sovereignty claim on the Falkland Islands, even referring to them as the ‘Malvinas’. On meeting with the absurd EU High Representative for Foreign Policy, Catherine Ashton, Secretary Clinton referred to the Lisbon Treaty as ‘a major milestone in our world’s history’, having previously stated: “I believe (political integration is) in Europe’s interest and I believe that is in the United States’ interest because we want a strong Europe.” And echoing the President’s absurd comments about France, Vice President Joe Biden described Brussels as the ‘capital of the free world’.

If the special relationship reached its zenith in the Thatcher-Reagan years, there is something of a nadir about the Obama-Cameron era. Yes, the high-fives are congenial and the state banquets diplomatic. But bubbling beneath the surface is a tension of barely concealed contempt. Both the Queen and the President spoke effusively of our common language and shared culture; of our combined national interests, and military and economic ties. But there is something very much deeper, and the Queen took the President back to his inaugural address and reminded him of his references to a United States constructed on the values of honesty, hard work, courage, fair play, tolerance, curiosity loyalty and patriotism. She ventured that these are the values which underscore the life of the United Kingdom also.

It is a little disappointing that neither ‘leader of the free world’ dared to mention the fons et origo of these values: the Christian faith. The United States is secular by law, yet they have a President who openly talks of ‘one nation under God’ and calls his nation to prayer every year. The United Kingdom is Protestant Christian by law, but none dare mention this fact for fear of causing offence. And when the Prime Minister does dare to invoke the name of Jesus, even professing believers berate him for his ‘ludicrous and offensive’ remarks. No wonder the temptation is not to 'do God'.

A few days ago, Pope Benedict XVI declared (unashamedly) that Europe must go deeper than mere matters of trade and economics. Taking a favoured theme of John Paul II, he reminded his audience that the Christian faith is the spiritual foundation of the continent: as Europe moves toward political unity, we will fare better if those Christian roots are kept in mind. He said:
"Europeans are called to commit themselves to create conditions of a profound cohesion and an effective collaboration between nations. To build the new Europe on solid bases it is not enough to appeal solely to economic interests, but, rather, it is necessary to begin from authentic values, which have their foundation in the universal moral law inscribed in every man's heart."
While Roman Catholic social doctrine and interventionist statism have become the pervasive religious and economic philosophies on the Continent, the UK and the US share a distinct Christian foundation which might be summarised as consisting of those values articulated by both President Obama and the Queen: honesty, hard work, courage, fair play, tolerance, curiosity loyalty and patriotism. The ‘Protestant work ethic’ encourages individual responsibility and unashamedly exalts the type of social capitalism that can only be achieved through the nation state, accountability, and democracy. Of course, there are tensions between the market and morality, and between the citizen and the state. But David Cameron’s ‘Big Society’ is as much about caring for widows and orphans, feeding the starving, and clothing the naked as any dimension of Catholic social teaching.

The key to the enduring success of the Anglo-American special relationship is that it is built upon the rock of Christianity. These two great nations know, somewhere deep down, that our souls are united by a commitment to liberty and dedication to truth; that earthly politics is fleeting; and that ultimate salvation lies only in the stark offence of the cross, under which the President, Prime Minister and Queen mean no more than the poor man at his gate.


Anonymous MrJ said...

"...Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has supported Argentina’s sovereignty claim on the Falkland Islands... echoing the President’s absurd comments about France, Vice President Joe Biden described Brussels as the ‘capital of the free world’. ...nadir about the Obama-Cameron era. "

"... fons et origo ... the Christian faith..."

There will be more than a few who regularly come here who will welcome and applaud the whole of this trenchant statement. It is likely to give discomfort to others, whether or not they can bring themselves to articulate equally well-founded observations against.

25 May 2011 at 11:55  
Anonymous Dick the Prick said...

Your Grace

If the Mao Mao stories are true and Obama's dad was assaulted in Kenya then it's fair enough to want rid of the bust of Churchill; either way, he was our PM so there'd be no political mileage to be achieved.

On US foreign policy and their hopes and intentions for a unified Europe and their insults to the UK as a byproduct; well, nieve and bad manners but ultimately understandable. It's all show buziness and Sarko was looking very weak until a couple of weeks back.

Ho hum

25 May 2011 at 11:59  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Your Grace,

I guess Britain needs America more than America needs Britain.

25 May 2011 at 12:06  
Anonymous len said...

Christianity and Christian principles are the very foundations of America and the UK. They are very bedrock on which these Nations stand.
Those foundations have been under constant attack from without and within our Countries.
We really do need to unite in the fight against terror,and Christian principles are the common ground which will enable us to do it.

25 May 2011 at 12:13  
Blogger I am Stan said...

I thought it was money Len!

25 May 2011 at 12:46  
Anonymous len said...

Money certainly makes the world `go round.
But it is not everything.
You can tell what God thinks about money by the people He gives it to!

25 May 2011 at 13:00  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

We really do need to unite in the fight against terror...

The 'fight against terror'? It's the fight against the global ambitions of Militant Islam and it's
wooden horse - multiculturalism.

It is time British people woke up to the fact that successive governments have failed them fatally for political expediency. We don't have a special relationship with the US, economically or politically - 'two nations separated by a common language' is about all that is left.

25 May 2011 at 13:34  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Cranmer said

The key to the enduring success of the Anglo-American special relationship is that it is built upon the rock of Christianity

Hardly and it would be tragic indeed if the “special relationship” was built upon the millstone of Christianity.

However the “special relationship” has only ever existed in the minds of British politicians who desperately cling to the hope that the US administration think that we are (still) important. Visiting US presidents go along with it out of politeness to their host. As for ordinary Americans they will not even have heard the term.

That said we do have a friendly relationship based largely on a common language, some similar cultural preferences in music and movies and our shared sacrifices in WWII, but know more so than we have with other English speaking nations. So lets not bang on about the “special relationship” as it is cringe making.

25 May 2011 at 14:11  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Once upon a time the capital of the free world was arguably Washington DC. Now, according to the Vice President of the US, it's Brussels, a pit of corrupt and unelected, authoritatian Marxists who are doing everything in their power to curb individual freedoms.

How things change.

It's not particularly comforting to know that it isn't just our politicians that have gone insane.

25 May 2011 at 14:25  
Anonymous Gareth said...

Wouldn't it be more true to say that our shared Christian heritage is responsible for the differences between the two countries? Or did I misread the reason that the pilgrims set sail for the new world?

25 May 2011 at 14:33  
Anonymous Michael Fowke said...

I just wish we could get by on our own without sucking up to any other country. All it takes is a bit of pride and willpower.

25 May 2011 at 15:03  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama is one of the west's worst enemies. In his short tenure, he's already responsible for the assassination of the Polish government and, now, the consolidation of an Islamist middle east. In September, it will become apparent that he is also responsible for the war against Israel that is rapidly approaching.

The man is a disgrace and a disaster.

25 May 2011 at 15:22  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

The 'protestant ethic', linking rightousness before God with individual prosperity, putting individual effort and ambition above caring for our fellow man, and conveniently associating material poverty with a failure to walk with God, is the basis of the 'special relationship'. It's a protestant view if the "invisible hand" of the market guided by God.

Let's hope it is waning and that Britain finds a more appropriate christian approach.

The 'Big Society' narrative owes more to Catholic social teaching than the 'protestant ethic'. Capitalism fosters greed in the name of "ambition", individual self-centerdness in the name of "competition", and callousness in the name of "market forces".

Let's be honest, capitalism is failing and socialism is dead in the water.

Time to look to Europe and to Rome for another way!

25 May 2011 at 15:43  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The US needs us more than we need them, because their North American Union cannot work without Canada.

Britain and the Commonwealth are just becoming Privatized territories in the New American Century.

What with US style shopping malls replacing the traditional high street plus McDonalds, Kentucky, Starbucks, Starvin Marvins, Franky and Benny's on every street corner.

How essential are these to our relations. I don't recognise Britain anymore.

25 May 2011 at 15:45  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Common Law and Liberal Theory: Coke, Hobbes and the Origins of American Constitutionalism
by James R. Stoner

The Americans and British need a new War of Independence from the Babel Builders!

25 May 2011 at 16:25  
Anonymous Twelve-T said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

25 May 2011 at 16:45  
Anonymous Alpha Centaurian said...

It is interesting that the humans seem to worship only one god, rather than several. We Alpha Centuarians have a god for almost everything or anyone. Even a god for atheists. Perhaps Graham Davies would be interested in the divine worship of the god who does not believe he exists?

25 May 2011 at 16:47  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Curious that Cranmer's critique of Mr Obama should elicit Dodo's 'protestant ethic' remarks
at 15:43...travesty or self-parody?

25 May 2011 at 16:54  
Anonymous Geo. S. Southerly said...

These leaders dare not invoke GOD's Holy Name and presence for good reason! There are laws on the books of each nation and practices in each that would not bear the light of His Countenance and would invite the exercise of His wrath.

There are laws that allow us to violate each of the commandments and some that force us to do so.

Each nation is causing itself and its people many woes, personal and national instability, immorality, financial ruin and eventual loss of autonomy and death by its own hand.

See Numbers 26 and Deuteronomy 30.

25 May 2011 at 16:57  
Anonymous len said...

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that it is the enemy within that is destroying us. By within I include the European Union which is the Revived Roman Empire. After countless wars and attempts to regather the Empire they are finally succeeding .

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared." - Cicero, 42 B.C.

25 May 2011 at 17:11  
Anonymous Mirror Cranmer said...

Cranmer is just a lunatic right winger who worships the sun that shines out of cameron's arse!

25 May 2011 at 17:14  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo 15:43,

Time to look to Europe and to Rome for another way!

Well, I have to admit, starting your own religion and convincing millions that you are the only person able to understand God properly is a surefire way of getting filthy rich.

I mean, look at papa's castle. Heavily into real estate, apparently. Nice hat too. Perhaps he could splash out on a better motor though. That white thing looks like a British Leyland, friday afternoon job.

25 May 2011 at 17:17  
Anonymous Draconian Asylum Seeker (don't worry I'm on Mars) said...

This English Viking is the kind of guy we need... he's got balls I'll give him that.

sad that he's going to be fighting the great human war of civilisation in the next few years...

25 May 2011 at 17:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace misrepresents the core of Catholic social doctrine which, far from 'Statist intervention' inscribes the principle of subsidiarity at its very core: the best solution to problems to any problem is at the local ('neighbourhood') - not the State - level.

25 May 2011 at 17:39  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Why are anonymice so dense?

It clearly says 'Roman Catholic social doctrine AND interventionist statism"

25 May 2011 at 17:44  
Anonymous Bede said...

If you can get hold of The Times for 21-5-2011 (or pay for it online), there is a brilliant article by the Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sacks. Entitled "China is reversing the decline and fall of Christianity", it makes the point that it was Christianity that largely led to the rise of the West. The West is now declining as it loses its moral and religious roots in a self-indulgent and self-centred hedonism.

In China, on the other hand, young, hard-working entrepreneurs are finding that Christianity provides an ethical framework which the West has abandoned.

25 May 2011 at 17:45  
Anonymous MrJ said...

English Viking 17:17 "a British Leyland, friday afternoon job":
Could that be a product of "protestant work ethic"?

DAS 17:31:
Sure, but Ann Barnhardt (of Kornbrust Circle, Lone Tree, CO) is quite a challenger (and has let it be known that, after much inquiry, she decided to convert to the Roman Church, and prefers the Latin Mass).

25 May 2011 at 17:48  
Anonymous IanCad said...

The USA has a form of the English language, It shares the beauty of the English Common Law and it was founded on principles of British Liberty.
That was a long time ago. We flatter ourselves if we think the "Special Relationship" is a mutual aid pact.
The US is looking after its own interests. It is in the equal opportunity special relationship business. We are no more or less important to the US than any other developed country.

25 May 2011 at 17:55  
Anonymous Gelsie 581 said...

I am beginning to like this Cranmer - how do the humans say?- chap. Yes I believe that he is a good egg as you would say? And I though that all humans were simple savages, Cranmer has made me re-consider my view.

Turning to the Obamaman, he is not of your faith and worships a different sky god, furthermore I believe that he resents the human british because of his ancestery, the perfect cockoo in the nest.

What I do not understand is thid cathloidic vs protstant- do they not worship the same sky god?

25 May 2011 at 18:07  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Mirror Cranmer @ 17:14

''lunatic right-winger'' ?

His Grace is oftentimes alarmingly 'middle of the road' bordering upon liberal-minded.

Whereas you Sir (?) are merely ill-bred.

25 May 2011 at 18:10  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I rather liked what David Cameron had to say on the lawn press meeting and there at least seemed to be the beginings of trying to unravel the ecnomic mess.
It is difficult not to conflate the wierd ecnomics with the rock of christian faith, unfortunately jesus did not leave us with an ecnomic model other than the question of personal riches , which is useually the point at which socialism trumpets distribution and capitalisms moral earned freedom , end up in political parties.
The ruin of socialism has been its disregard for work being fairer than high taxation and balanced books. The ruin of capitalism has been its drive into analysing every aspect into market value. The socialist running up a national debilitating debt that pisses on all ecnomic models.leaving millions of there own voters in and paying for the debt , is somthing for the historians and criminologists.

It of little use trying to explain to those that think they have found the real non supernatural essence of God ,in the new order of a knowledge based structure (when it gives elites knowledge about you). I am waiting for some one to work out ,that you as a logical ecnomic concept in totalitarian system of commerce , is a commodity driven loveless prison ,gradually having no respect for law and biology.
Christianity speaks about law and biology , you do not need a PC to live in the god created universe , you need each other percieving and understanding , a loving order.

His holiness has no doubt had many frustrations in this epic struggle .Who guards the guards is one aspect , but who controls the desires is another. There is no monetary cost benefit analysis for the saving of souls as a person has to make there own mind , as jesus pointed out choosing between caesar and god is a difficult matter and perhaps somthing of the free will , that as christians, we so often theologically struggle to expalin.

If these models of disire fullfillment are little more that tricks to divert the mind from percieving god through his son , then we are in a lot of trouble .

25 May 2011 at 18:12  
Anonymous Voyager said...

became one of the closest and most enduring bonds in global geopolitical history.

Really ? Plan Orange 1925 US Fear of Anglo-Japanese attack on USA - Paranoia.

The US had already rendered the Royal Navy useless through Treaty of Washington and Treaty of London and forced Britain to sever the Anglo-Japanese Naval Treaty in 1920.

The systematic dismantling of Britain and its Empire by the USA and the dismantling of the Sterling Area in 1947 making Britain wholly dependent on US Loans.

Yes, it is the kind of relationship much of Africa enjoyed with its Colonial Masters. The British should express undying gratitude for having destroyed themselves sufficiently for the CIA-funded European Movement and Jozef Retinger to have subsumed the carcass into the European Union.

Rarely has a global power entered the 20th Century to be so completely dismantled over the course of 50 years.

25 May 2011 at 18:13  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

As usual, well said your Grace!

PS- I think there are a few leftist trolls around today. Not to worry, we'll sniff them out with all the tenacity of a bloodhound!

25 May 2011 at 18:23  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

len said...
"The more I think about it the more convinced I am that it is the enemy within that is destroying us."

I agree!

It's called 'protestantism'. Once the 'right' of the 'individual' to determine his own understanding of God's ordinances was accepted the door was thrown wide open. In came the 'rights of man', shortly followed by secularism.

The individual interpretation of the bible, with each of the diverse readings being seem as equal, lends itself to an absence of moral authority.

Protestantism also enshrined capitalism and the persuit of personal wealth as the god to be worshipped.

Draconian Asylum Seeker (don't worry I'm on Mars) said...
"This English Viking is the kind of guy we need... he's got balls I'll give him that."

Yep, but unfortunately the're located between his ears!

25 May 2011 at 18:28  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Last Dodo,not wanting to pick a fight, but I would say that the last place to look for 'moral authority' is the Roman Church, especially given the Pedophile scandal.

This statement might be a bit below the belt, I guess you feel like a mother "whose seen (heard) it all before" but it is in part why I switch off when the Roman Catholic Church goes on about morality.

The only God that should be worshipped is YHWH - Father, son and Holy Spirit. Not capitalism,Anglicanism, sects, the Pope or anything else in this earth, the heavens or the galaxies. It is in Jesus Christ that one obtains salvation, the path to heaven. Not in anything else.

25 May 2011 at 18:44  
Blogger English Viking said...

Mr J,

The dross that BL produced was more a result of Communism than Protestantism.

Why doesn't he get a nice Bentley? If it's good enough for James Bond, surely it must be good enough him?

25 May 2011 at 20:02  
Blogger English Viking said...

'for' is missing from the above.

Must proof read more often.

25 May 2011 at 20:03  
Anonymous MrJ said...

EV 20:02 "...Communism..." True. I was confident you would notice and mention.

25 May 2011 at 20:54  
Anonymous len said...

Steady!.You appear to be becoming a tad prote- phobic.

Lord Lavendon is giving you solid advice, as others have done.

It would take the Vatican and a bunch of Catholic theologians to help you misinterpret the Word of God. Catholic theology goes even further than that it makes up its own 'word' as well!.

Deep breaths now.

25 May 2011 at 22:09  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Lord Lavendon

I assume, unlike some of the more, shall we say, eccentric, Romophobes on here that your observations are genuine.

Of course the only God that should be worshipped is YHWH - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But this must be a worship based on knowing God.

"You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment."

To love God with our whole heart, mind and soul means a full knowledge of Him. This knowledge comes through the 2,000 years of study of the bible by the Church and its teaching and traditions

Catholicism does not put any person above God! The authority of the Pope comes from faithfully interepreting and applying God's commandments to the times in which we live.

So far as it moral authority and the damage done by the child abuse scandals, I believe you are being mischievous.

Does the fact that over 85% of child abuse is perpetrated by family members mean the family as an institution should be abolished? Do the actions of renegade police officers or armed personnel remove the legitimate authority of all?

Stick to the great evils of our times - divorce, homosexuality, abortion, euthenasia - and tell me another mainstream Christian church that so steadfastly promotes and holds to an absolute morality based on the bible, tradition and theological reasoning?

No relative morality in Catholicism; no individual interpretation about what God expects; no right to plough one's own furrow.

25 May 2011 at 22:41  
Anonymous len said...

Your`e doing it again!.
lets leave religion out of this and just concentrate on Christ..................please.

25 May 2011 at 23:36  
Blogger English Viking said...


Apologising for cat-lick kiddy-fiddlers, are we?

Dirty. Very, very dirty.

Ughh, dirtiness.

26 May 2011 at 00:14  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

len said...
Your`e doing it again!.
lets leave religion out of this and just concentrate on Christ..................please."

And by 'religion' you mean?

Religion is the public aspect of a faith, surely? The early Apostles, disciples and faithful met regulary for teaching, prayer and worship. They had a hierarchy with Apostles determining a doxology, appointing successors, laying hands on deacons; an organisation for sharing their goods with the needy and a collective evangelical missionary purpose.

A 'faith' without 'religion' lacks a recognised congregation, has no organisation for its communicants to pray and worship and lacks a way to grow together in love and knowledge of God, consistent with God's revealed truth in the Bible, through reason and the natural law.

Without 'religion' how we know about Christ. There would be no sacred text but a host of competing books of equal status presenting very different christologies.

God gave us 'religion' through Judaism - an outward manifestation, through symbols and rituals, of an inward commitment to God.

Jesus taught us to focus on the meaning of 'religion' and not to confuse symbol and meaning, to rise above the rule of the law and to embrace the spirit of love in the law.

Jesus did not dismiss 'religion'. He dismissed outward rituals and behaviours that did not truely reflect God's love for us.

26 May 2011 at 00:15  
Blogger English Viking said...

Said the defender of kiddy-fiddlers and Nazis.

26 May 2011 at 00:29  
Blogger English Viking said...


He's a troll, forget him.

26 May 2011 at 00:30  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking said...
Apologising for cat-lick kiddy-fiddlers, are we?"

Truthfully? As a Roman Catholic I feel a deep sense of shame about the individual priests who abused children and stole their innonence, and also anger towards those senior Church officials who colluded in any way with the abuse continuing.

Apology? As a member of the Church the apology has been made by Pope Benedict. Personally, I am sincerely sorry for the Church's failure to stop the abuse.

The individual abusers must make their own confessions and seek repentance before God and face justice before men.

The organisational fault, the fault of the Church, was a failing commonly experienced by multi-national, large and complex bureauracies. I believe the lessons have been learned and practices put in place to ensure this never happens again.

A real additional damage is that Catholic haters, like you, twist this scandal and seek to use it to undermine Roman Catholic faith. What you fail to appreciate is that in your glee over Rome's disgrace, you damage Christianity too.

26 May 2011 at 00:37  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

English Viking said...

"Said the defender of kiddy-fiddlers and Nazis."

"He's a troll, forget him."

I'm a 'Troll for Christ' - what's your cause?

26 May 2011 at 00:44  
Blogger English Viking said...


There is a significant difference between making an apology and saying sorry.

You misunderstand. Get a Dictionary, else Google 'apologetics'.

PS You're a troll for Mary, not Christ. Or perhaps it is papa, or tradition, or ritual, or myth and legends. Or hope in works, or magic chanting, or special water, etc, etc.

You defend the indefensible, and it is a greater sin to think a man could deserve salvation than it is to defend kiddy-fiddlers, and you do both.

Wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

26 May 2011 at 00:56  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...


Now you have revealed your true self. Playing with words and twisting meanings. Reminds me of a characture from Genesis.

You know the nature of the apology we are referring to. Why would you wilfully misrepresent the truth? Second nature?

1. An acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense.
2. A formal justification or defense.
3. An explanation or excuse.

26 May 2011 at 02:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama is a Stalinist.

26 May 2011 at 05:15  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Some of the above (and in other places of this blogsite) could be an invitation to a Village Explainer to compare the Old Testament with Alice in Wonderland and the New with Alice through the Looking Glass, and The Hunting of the Snark with the Apocrypha.

That is with no disrespect to Holy Writ, but mindful that the author of those entertaining fantasies was in minor orders, resident at Christ Church, Oxford (as one of the dons called "Students") and had a way with logic and riddles.

With disrespect to no one, a genial pastiche could include a character noted for some well-aimed swipes, wielding an instrument at once blunt and sharp, and another noted for flapping and squawking like a near extinct flightless bird, while noises off come from a basilisk calling "enessess".

26 May 2011 at 07:56  
Anonymous len said...

MrJ, I seem to be getting a 'picture' of a Viking longboat sailing steadfastly through the sea with an albatross like creature squawking and flapping wildly in circles around it.

26 May 2011 at 08:35  
Anonymous Voyager said...

Apologising for cat-lick kiddy-fiddlers, are we?"

Hard to do such a thing don't you think ?

When we look at Kincora Boys Home, N Ireland, the situation in Wales; the trials in Lisbon re Casa Pia we tend to find Politicians and Media types to the fore.


and not to forget Marc Dutroux and the Politicians and Policemen in his coterie.

No reason to ignore Child Abusers in the Police Force, Politics, Media, Judiciary......but funnily enough, the media does....

26 May 2011 at 08:46  
Blogger English Viking said...


To the abused, I'm sure it doesn't matter who is doing the abuse, it is all horrendous.

But the reason the cat-licks get so much stick is because of the utter hypocrisy of someone who claims to be God's representative, espousing celibacy and preaching that the sexually immoral will go to Hell, interfering with children on a galactic scale.

The decades of covering it up have made it so much worse, and then muppets like Dodo try to minimise the severity and seriousness of the matter by apologising (making a defense of, Dodo, you know full well what I mean), with the pathetic line that 85% of perverts are not cat-lick priests. He fails to note that within the 85% that are not priests, there will be significant numbers of lay cat-licks, but that another matter.

Popiness leads to perversity. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

26 May 2011 at 12:34  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...


Twisting words again?

85% of abuse from within families. The rest from people known to the children in their communities and from those in positions of trust, including teachers, care workers and ministers. A small minority of the abuse was perpetrated by Catholic priests and represent less than 0.001% of the total number of priests. And what evidence do you have for significant numbers of lay Catholics being represented in those groups who abuse children?

One child abused is a scandal when access to the child is because of a priests position as a representatives of Christ. I have never defended this, nor would I ever do so.

The decades of 'cover up' had many reasons, including ignorance of the nature of peadophilia, the manapulative nature of child sex abusers and the compulsive nature of their disorder. That's why abuse went on for so long in many, many children's homes in the 1980's and 1990's.

Do get your facts straight and stop this nonsense that celebacy leads to pervertion. You're skating on very thin ice.

26 May 2011 at 13:16  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Mr J and len said ...

Oh, you are clever chappies!

My feet are firmly planted on God's good soil and the Norse is waving his axe at phantoms constructed by his own imagination.

As for you two, you bring to mind two third rate teachers at a second rate public school sitting together bemoaning the fact that intellects such as yours never made it to the dizzy heights of becoming Cambridge Dons.

26 May 2011 at 13:36  
Blogger English Viking said...


Surely, if unnatural and enforced celibacy is not a contributing factor to outrage of child abuse amongst the cat-lick clergy, there would be similar numbers of abusers within the Methodists, or Anglicans, or Baptists, etc, etc.

There aren't similar numbers. Not even close.

Popiness is dirty. Uggghh.

26 May 2011 at 14:18  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...


And you know that for a fact do you? In percentage terms you know there is a significant differance? Please forward me the references to this research. Additionally, you know the root cause of peadophilia is sexual continance? Again, the research backing this statement would be helpful.

Show me the research and evidence demonstrating a correlation between freely chosen celibacy and peodophilia.

The Roman Church invests considerable trust and authority in its priests - this, I agree, is a contributing factor to the silence of the victims and to the disbelief they encountered when they first disclosed these outrages. A similar reaction occurred to those children who disclosed abuse by parents, teachers, care workers and close family friends. Read any of the reports into abuse in the care system. There's plenty. Many of these men and women were married and/or sexually active.

The sexual abuse of children by close relatives and trusted adults was just not on societies radar until the 1990's and beyond. Noone believed it possible. It was tought only 'dirty old men in rain coats' perpetrated such crimes.

Do the research before shooting your mouth off!

The current Pope has determined that any future applicant to the priesthood, or any undergoing formation, who has a predisposition towards homosexuality will be disbarred. And how the 'gay' lobby squealed at this.

There is also tightly prescribed procedures in place now for reporting abuse to the civil authorities as well as church officials.

So, Viki, put up the evidence or do shut up.

And do remember many of the great founding members of christianity choose celibacy, including Our Lord who was a man as well as God. He could have married, as was expected of a Jew in His time, and had children. As a man He was subject to the trails and temptations of His human nature. He choose no marry - or do you dispute this also?

The cause of peadophilia is sexual dysfunction and a lack of empathy for the suffering it causes its victims. It is characturised by an obsessive, morbid sexual interest in children and a compulsive persuit of gratification.

Celibacy, in the sense of an inability to engage in healthy sexual relationships, may be an indicator or accompanying attribute. It is certainly not a cause of the pathological abuse of children. To freely choose celibacy, as an act of commitment exclusively to God, is way, way different. The two are just not correlated.

26 May 2011 at 15:59  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Perhaps the state of Dodo's mind in 13:36 explains the faulty reasoning of some of Dodo's other comments, but there is no need to press the point. (There may be an explanation for Dodo's turn of phrase which does not fall foul of intellectual snobbery.)

26 May 2011 at 17:08  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Mr J said ...

I was mistaken earlier in the day. Actually, when I give it more thought, you are akin to the two old gezzers in the Muppet Show.

26 May 2011 at 17:26  
Anonymous Voyager said...

To the abused, I'm sure it doesn't matter who is doing the abuse, it is all horrendous.

Exactly, but I do recall Operation Avalanche and Operation Ore and the number of policemen involved.....the principle is one of TRUST, STATUS and RESPONSIBILITY rather than surplice.

I am reminded that the Concordat 1933 was achieved by a campaign against the Catholic Church alleging pederasty and child abuse by the Nazi press. It was so successful that the Pope was relatively silent as other horrors unfolded.

Bringing abusers to book is essential, tunnel vision is a hindrance, and I really would like to see more scrutiny of Media and Politics rather than turning a blind eye to things because they are not inside the Church or Mosque

26 May 2011 at 17:31  
Blogger English Viking said...


Blind eyes are not turned when priests are not involved.
As I said before, it is the rank hypocrisy that causes the front page attention when members of any form of Christianity are involved in these things. The fact that cat-licks appear more often is because they are involved more often.

You are right about the Nazis intimidating the CC in Germany. One Master Ratzinger was so appalled at their behaviour that he joined the Hitler Youth.

26 May 2011 at 18:16  
Anonymous MrJ said...

What is "the Muppet Show"? Coming from one such as the amiable Dodo it must be some kind of compliment.

26 May 2011 at 19:10  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Mr J said ...

"What is "the Muppet Show"? Coming from one such as the amiable Dodo it must be some kind of compliment."

Oh, believe me, it is considering some of the comparisons that spring more readily to mind! I'm in a generous mood.

26 May 2011 at 20:09  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 May 2011 at 20:25  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 May 2011 at 20:25  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 May 2011 at 20:26  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 May 2011 at 20:26  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

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26 May 2011 at 20:27  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 May 2011 at 20:27  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...


I recall you comparing yourself to dog crap recently.

Yep, correct. Not only do you stick around, you really are toxic and odious.

26 May 2011 at 20:28  
Blogger English Viking said...

Hey Dodo,

You know when you post rubbish, regret it almost immediately and then delete the post, the author of the post is still visible when comments are viewed on Permalink?

Doh Doh!

26 May 2011 at 21:32  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...


So you know, twerp, I actually posted the same post several times because they came up as not having registered.

If you can check.

26 May 2011 at 22:02  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Ps Viki

You're so vain ....

26 May 2011 at 22:03  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr The Last DoDo,

This is a place for mature, intelligent and erudite discussion and debate. Could you please immediately explain your impolite spamming of His Grace's blog 20.15-20.28?

26 May 2011 at 22:06  
Blogger English Viking said...


Just for you:

Or this, with some of my relations:

26 May 2011 at 23:10  
Blogger The Last Dodo said...

Archbishop Cranmer said...
"Mr The Last DoDo,
This is a place for mature, intelligent and erudite discussion and debate. Could you please immediately explain your impolite spamming of His Grace's blog 20.15-20.28?"

Purely accidental, Mr Archbishop Cranmer, as explained to English Viking.

Posted and reposted the same response as it didn't appear. If you are able to access the posts this will verify this account. When I logged off and on again in an effort to resolve this, I noticed all had appeared.

I thought it preferable to delete the repetitive posts rather than have several posts all saying the same thing.

Not "impolite spamming", I would not abuse your site this way. A simple technical issue with my posts and my subsequent well intended attempts to make the best of this.

Three Our Fathers and Three Hail Marys - or an absolute discharge?

27 May 2011 at 00:20  

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