Monday, June 20, 2011

Desmond Tutu is wrong to back Freedom for Palestine song

“Music helped beat apartheid and can end occupation.”

Well, the UN, the EU and successive America presidents have consistently failed, so why not give music a chance?

Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the South African human rights activist, has pledged his support for the new single ‘Freedom for Palestine’.

The song (which, in His Grace’s humble opinion, is rubbish) is performed by the musicians OneWorld, who include members of dance act Faithless and the Durban Gospel Choir. It has been viewed online by more than 250,000 people, which isn’t so difficult to achieve when it is supported by pro-Palestine charities who have ensured its ‘viral’ attraction. The single is backed by inter alia War on Want, Palestine Solidarity Campaign, Jews for Justice for Palestinians, A Just Peace for Palestine, Friends of Al Aqsa, Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions UK, Stop the War Coalition and Trust Greenbelt. Proceeds from the single will go to War on Want to support ‘projects’ in Palestine.

Archbishop Desmond, who officially retired from public life last year, kindly came out of retirement to endorse ‘Freedom for Palestine’ on World Refugee Day (today, apparently). His Grace is informed by War on Want that some seven million Palestinians remain refugees or internally displaced, many since 1948.

This is a curious number, which appears to include the entire population of Jordan.

In his video message, Archbishop Desmond says: “I have visited the occupied Palestinian territories and have witnessed the humiliation of Palestinians at Israeli military checkpoints. I have seen the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured, farmers tend their land or children attend school.”

Well, His Grace has visited Israeli territories and has witnessed nothing but compassion and concern for religious and racial minorities; healing for thousands of Palestinian Arabs being treated in Israeli hospitals; and outstanding education for thousands of Palestinian children in Israeli schools. He met no farmers but he did have meetings with Arabs in the Israeli parliament.

The Archbishop continues: “This treatment is familiar to me and the many black South Africans who were corralled and harassed by the security forces of the apartheid government.”

It is a curious apartheid which permits an Arab to become President. There are many countries, including several in the Arab-Muslim world, that practise and promote discrimination against particular religious or ethnic communities. There are no songs composed about these to attract the magic Tutu support. In South Africa, there was a legally enshrined system for discrimination, but in Israel the precise opposite obtains. Its constitution enshrines equality before the law for all its citizens regardless of religion or ethnicity, and any discrimination which does occur can be challenged in the courts, which was certainly not the case in South Africa.

And what of those areas of social cohesion evidenced in many hospitals and schools, where Jews and Arabs work peacefully side by side to the mutual benefit of both? The black people of South Africa were strictly separated from the white, and the black people invariably got the least and the worst. The black people had no votes, yet in Israel Arabs not only have full democratic rights, there are Arab members of parliament, Arabs in government, and Arabs in the judiciary. Majallie Whbee’s appointment as President clearly exposes the lie that the Jewish state is an apartheid country. He said that his ascent to the position proved that those who draw such a parallel with the former South African regime were ‘ignoring the facts on the ground’. None of this was possible in South Africa, so there is absolutely no comparison.

Discrimination is a social ill that is manifest in Israel just as it is in every nation on earth. It is legitimate to criticise Israel for its failings, but the charge of ‘apartheid’ is a malicious libel designed to delegitimise the Jewish State and stir up anti-Semitic sentiment.

The Archbishop explains: “In South Africa, we could not have achieved our freedom without the help of people around the world and musicians were central to our struggle. Through music and art we speak to a common humanity, one which transcends political and economic interests.”

That’s nice. Frankly, His Grace couldn’t achieve much at all without Beethoven, who is central to his struggle. Music does indeed transcend political and economic interests. And so does football. But supporting Iran against the US soccer team does not change the minds of Iranians towards the 'Great Satan', and neither does it bring freedom to to the people of Iran: it simply perpetuates evil and suffering.

The Archbishop adds: “For this reason I am proud to support ‘Freedom for Palestine’ by OneWorld. I urge everyone to buy the single and spread its message. Let’s send a message to governments that a critical mass of people want to see an end to the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the oppression of its people.”

His Grace urges you not to download or buy this single, because to do so will only prolong the suffering of the Palestinians and exacerbate the wrongs on both sides. A song which conveys the message that Israel does not care about humanity and possesses no conscience is evil. To equate the only democracy in the region with apartheid South Africa is evil.

His Grace wasn’t going to post this article, not least because it is giving the song even more exposure. But its lies need to be countered, and no-one will be producing a song entitled ‘Freedom for Israel’ any time soon (and not just because there isn’t much the rhymes with Hamas or Fatah).

With respect to the Archbishop, he has naïvely permitted himself to be used in an odious piece of blatant anti-Israeli propaganda. This song calls for the security wall to come down (despite it having reduced suicide bombings and saved thousands of lives). It refers throughout to ‘Israeli occupation’, which is becoming the dominant narrative in all discussions about the region: Israel ought not to exist; its land has been stolen and the Zionist State sustains its existence only by oppression. It is a lie. This song isn’t concerned with a new beginning for Palestine; it is about the end of Israel, neatly packaged and presented as a hummable (just) piece of soft rock (kind of) which people will absorb subliminally into their consciences and make the lyric truth.

The fact remains that Israel is surrounded by nations intent on her destruction. Over recent months, an entire Jewish family had their throats cut while sleeping; Hamas launched an anti-tank missile at a school bus carrying 30 children; random missiles continue to rain down indiscriminately upon Jewish towns and villages; there have been suicide attacks on kindergartens, schools, pizza parlours, a student cafeteria, shopping malls, a bus station...

But when Israel fights back, there is criticism, outrage and universal condemnation.

Perhaps Israel should release a single instead:

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion.


Blogger Rebel Saint said...

A most heartfelt Amen to that Cranmer.

I wonder when anyone will release a single decrying the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Gaza and throughout the 'Palestinian Territories'. Come to think of it ... why aren't they called refugees?

20 June 2011 at 09:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace

Thank you for publishing the truth about anti-Israel propaganda:

“[T]he charge of ‘apartheid’ is a malicious libel designed to delegitimise the Jewish State and stir up anti-Semitic sentiment.”

I would go further. It is calculated to project onto those who are hostile to Israel a cloak of moral superiority to blind them to their combined fascism and racism.

The truth this reveals is that those who are against Israel are conciously willing to replace white with black; the truth in exchange for the lie – which must ultimately conclude with life exchanged for death.

20 June 2011 at 09:30  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

YG, a good posting. When I lived in South Africa in the '80s, Mr Tutu was always in the news; I found him irritating then and he hasn't matured with age. There were also tales, as I recall, of him lining his and his family's pockets as he trod his path of righteous indignation.

20 June 2011 at 09:44  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

So according to Cranmer everything is hunky dory for the Palestinians. I don’t think so! Desmond Tutu has immense moral authority coupled with humility and wisdom (and that is some praise coming from an atheist). I wish I could say the same for the “ghost” who stalks this blog but I can’t, because time and again he spews out one-sided rhetoric in support of the Israelis who in his eyes can do no wrong.

It never fails to surprise me the volume of “unchristian” sentiment emitted from this blog (and I have no doubt more will follow). Surely one of the foremost virtues that both Christian and atheist can agree upon is fairness; it must underpin all human relations in order for a just society to flourish. The Arab/Palestine, Israeli conflict is complex with atrocities committed by both sides. However to any fair minded person it is clear that it is Israel must now give up land that they have illegally occupied in exchange for their right to exist in peace.

20 June 2011 at 09:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done Your Grace.

Yet another Archdhimmi exposed. He should be singing loudly about the organised persecution of Christians in Egypt and Iraq and many other countries.

20 June 2011 at 10:03  
Anonymous Abandon Ship! said...


"However to any fair minded person it is clear that it is Israel must now give up land that they have illegally occupied in exchange for their right to exist in peace."

Like they did with Gaza you mean? Israel withdrew and it brought not peace but Hamas and rockets. Two sides must perform in this dance.

20 June 2011 at 10:12  
Blogger Angus Lambkin said...

Why be so dismissive of refugee day?

Takes away from an otherwise relevant contribution.

20 June 2011 at 10:20  
Anonymous scidbox said...

Abandon ship.

Your comment re the withdrawl from Gaza gets put out so often but tells so little of the facts.
At the time of the withdrawl from Gaza the Israeli authorities embarked on the largest West Bank settlement expansion in Israels history.
Do you not think this relevant or just choose to ignore it?


20 June 2011 at 10:49  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
Ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Zion."

However, the Jewish people are no longer captives yearning for a return to Zion. They need to accept the political reality of the region and actively broker peace.

The record launch is naive at best and the accompanying speech inflamatory towards Israel. It won't help the situation and Bishop Tuto should know better.

The points made by Mr G Davis and Mr Scidbox do need noting.

20 June 2011 at 11:08  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Abandon Ship!

It's chicken and egg, both sides must compromise. The problem with Cranmer is he is always an apologist for the Israelis because they are affiliated to his particular brand of religion.

20 June 2011 at 11:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the Christian point of view it was inevitable that the Jews would once more have their homeland again. This was recognised by Macaulay in his speech to Parliament in 1831.

Macaulay was arguing against those Christians who opposed curing Jewish civil disabilities on the ground that the Jews would return to their ancestral homeland (this belief, amongst Christians, has always been present (the belief was concluded in 1948)).

Now we address the situation that after century after century of persecution God has almost restored the nation-state of Israel – that Jews should surrender their homeland to those who not only desire that their nation be erased, but who hold onto a religion inimical to democracy and therefore by default a friend to oppression; and, further, to facilitate the emergence of the Caliphate: a future threat to the stability of global law and order.

This scenario is a realistic one: as the Arab spring becomes the Arab street.

Of course, people like Mr Davis are not ignorant of this centuries’ old oppression – but today they seek to support strategies calculated to obliterate Israel from the map (land in exchange for ‘peace’ – in reality land in exchange for more demands – that chips away – piece by piece - Israeli liberty, security and freedom).

The geo-political principle is clear: if Israel falls; Spain will be next.

20 June 2011 at 11:12  
Anonymous MrJ said...

"...World Refugee Day (today, apparently)" (10:20)

Is "apparently" so dismissive (offhanded sneer) or, in context, deservedly literal, as a counter to the brazen propagandism of the song and its promotion?

20 June 2011 at 11:28  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Mr Singh regards to fairness?

20 June 2011 at 11:37  
Anonymous Abandon Ship! said...


"The problem with Cranmer is he is always an apologist for the Israelis because they are affiliated to his particular brand of religion."

Is His Grace circumcised? I think it unlikely.

20 June 2011 at 11:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

‘Mr Singh

‘ regards to fairness?’

Mr Davis,

God… loves… Israel: he is the apple of His eye.

Do you expect a lover to be fair?

I don’t suppose you distribute your favours equally to all the women in your neighbourhood?

Do you?

Perhaps you should.

To be ‘fair’.

20 June 2011 at 11:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wasn't born a Jew.

And that ain't fair.

20 June 2011 at 11:58  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Abandon Ship! said...

Is His Grace circumcised? I think it unlikely.

Ask him!

Mr Singh said

God… loves… Israel: he is the apple of His eye.

Ah yes God again.

That so many of the world’s problems are down to conflict between religious beliefs seems to be lost on you. But of course your God is the real one!

20 June 2011 at 12:01  
Anonymous veracity said...

Why is it that the words 'peace' and 'justice' have been turned into weapons with which to beat the Israelis . I cannot understand why these so called 'do gooders' cannot see that they give the lie that they are for 'peace and justice' for both Israelis and Palestinians when they spend their life talking about and promoting the idea of evil Israel. Would you warmly embrace someone who called you evil? Should I as a friend of Israel ( and Palestinians) warmly embrace people who want to annhilate the state . True reconcilation and Christian love are not practised by the so called peacemakers and this is particularly reprehensible from ex Archbishop Tutu as well as Methodists and the WCC and all.I pray for them They are enemies of Christianity

20 June 2011 at 12:03  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

The Israelis cannot abandon control of the West Bank. To do so would pose too great a security risk. The 1967 border is not defensible. Israel is simply too small. It has no capacity for defense in depth. Do not forget just how close the Syrians came to breaking into northern Israel in the first days of the 1973 War. A few Israeli tanks in the Golan delayed the Syrians enough to fill the gap. Without that extra territory, Israel wouldn't exist right now.

An independent Palestinian state that inserts a hostile army into the West Bank would tremendously complicate Israeli defensive problems. It is a long border without natural barriers. There may be useful idiots in Israel who agitate for such nonsense, but no Israeli Gov't Left or Right is going to agree to a Palestinian state on the West Bank. Not even if the Palestinians cross their hearts, hope to die, and pinky swear they will not attack. And we all know how reliable that promise would be.

The best the Palestinians can hope for is some form of limited autonomy. They will not receive full independence. The Israelis must maintain control of the border at the Jordan River. They must maintain control of the water in the West Bank. They cannot allow the Palestinians to develop an actual military capability. They cannot allow the Palestinians to make treaties that would allow foreign nations to place military forces in the West Bank. In other words, the Israelis cannot allow the Palestinians to function as a sovereign nation. That's just the way it is, and some silly song isn't going to change that.


20 June 2011 at 12:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and then we also have the Irish Rugby internationals endorsing the flotilla of 'aid' to Gaza.

20 June 2011 at 12:11  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Carl Jacobs

In other words a peaceful settlement isn't possible because Israel will refuse to return land it has for decades suggested it might.

No state for Palestinians? No return of the occuppied territiories? Just what will Israel concede?

Ummm ....

20 June 2011 at 12:16  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Israeli single:

We Are The Champions!

20 June 2011 at 12:17  
Anonymous Flossie said...

May I just throw into the ring the Palestinian Christian voice, in a letter sent by Kairos Palestine a couple of days ago to Rowan Williams - 'Palestinian Christians express dismay with archbishop of Canterbury'

This is a complex situation with wounds on both sides which will not be easily healed.

20 June 2011 at 12:31  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Mr Dodo

The Israelis are building those settlements along the Jordan River to maintain control of the Jordan River. What you think the Israelis have offered and what the Israelis are in fact willing to do are two different things.

For there to be a settlement the Palestinians first have to accept the fact of Israel. The burden of proof is on the Palestinians. Because of their long history of rejectionism, they must prove their commitment to peace by submitting to Israeli rule for a long period of time. This the Palestinians have never done. Were I an Israeli, I would not place my nation at risk simply to appease the desires of an enemy population that has repeatedly stated its intent to eradicate the nation of Israel. Because one thing is sure. The people who are currently agitating for a 'fair agreement' will not be present to defend Jewish lives from those who wish to kill the Jews and drive the survivors into the sea.

who thinks the modern state of Israel has no eschatological significance at all

20 June 2011 at 12:32  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

carl jacobs said...

The Israelis cannot abandon control of the West Bank. To do so would pose too great a security risk. The 1967 border is not defensible. Israel is simply too small.

Well tough **** mate so are the Seychelles and Maldives. Israel does not have a right to exist any more than Palestine does but both must be given the same chance.

20 June 2011 at 12:48  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr Dodo said: 'Israeli single: We are the Champions!'

Very true. The Israeli economy grows at 5% pa and records a current account surplus, all in a tiny patch of land. More importantly, unlike most Western democracies, Israel has natural increase with a birth-rate approaching 3 children per woman. Surely a sign of a happy and optimistic people.

Fortunately, despite being short of natural resources, the Israelis have abundant intellectual resources and a profound work ethic. Put them down anywhere and the likes of Mr Davis, Mr Dodo and His Ex-Grace Desmond Tutu will still hate the Jews because they will succeed.

Its been said before and needs to be said again. Israel won the West Bank in a war in 1967 and consolidated its position in another war in 1973. They don't owe anybody anything. Israel also returned the Sinai to Egypt in a land for peace deal. but as Mr Carl Jacobs points out, there are limits to Israeli generosity in the interest of maintaining a defensible perimeter. The West Bank is an essential buffer zone.

Currently the Lord of Battles is smiling on Israel. The collapse of the Assad regime in Syria together with a weakened Egyptian economy is providing Israel with a breathing space. The Turks too are pre-occupied with Syria.

It merely remains for Israel to keep its nerve in the face of its critics and enemies.

In the view of this communicant, the more of the lands defined in the Cranmer Declaration that are held by Israel the better.

20 June 2011 at 12:57  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Graham Davis

Actually it's 'tough ****' for the Palestinians. The Israelis have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so. Your assertion that "Israel does not have a right to exist any more than Palestine" will only motivate the Israelis to depend on their own strength to insure their survival.

Interesting use of the passive voice btw. "...both must be given the same chance." Who made that rule? Who is it who must give both sides the 'same chance?' This isn't a game of soccer. Israeli defeat will mean a Jewish slaughter. Or is that just 'tough ****' for the Jews as well?


20 June 2011 at 13:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Davis: 'But of course your God is the real one!'

Yes. We all agree on that one.

20 June 2011 at 13:18  
Anonymous MrJ said...

The merit of Mr Graham Davis's crudely ignorant remarks is to draw out the better informed and better judged remarks of Mr Carl Jacobs ("who thinks the modern state of Israel has no eschatological significance at all"), and (Mr) bluedog: "the more of the lands defined in the Cranmer Declaration [May 23] that are held by Israel the better" -- better for all in and near the vicinity, and towards international peace and security.

20 June 2011 at 13:26  
Blogger English Viking said...

Tutu is a prize moron, a self-obsessed publicity whore.

Ohh, I'm not allowed to say that, because he 'suffered' under apartheid. And he's black.

NIce bank balance though, so I'm told.

The sooner Israel stops messing about looking for peace with the rabid dog that is Hamas/Fatah, and breaks out the nuclear grenades, the better. With a bit of luck, Tutu will be on a visit at the same time.

20 June 2011 at 13:31  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...


"And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end."


Israel needs to stop rubbing the noses of the Palestinians in the dirt. The leaders of these people may be extremists but I suspect ordinary Palestinians just want peace and an opportunity to live their lives. The same applies to many Israeli leaders.

Learn the lessons of history - there is a difference between 'appeasement' and political 'compromise' in the interests of peace.

And to the others. This isn't about 'loving' or 'hating' Israel. It isn't about whether there is end-time significance to the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland. It is all about finding a peace settlement and this means talking.

Has Israel the right to hold onto land that isn't recognised as being a part of the State of Israel?

20 June 2011 at 13:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'The leaders of these people may be extremists but I suspect ordinary Palestinians just want peace and an opportunity to live their lives.'

That may or may not be so.

Who's doing the talking?

The leaders.

And when 9/11 happened - who danced in the streets?

And they want peace Mr Chamberlain?

20 June 2011 at 13:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just look at the Leftists squeal and squirm like rats fleeing the sinking Titanic – only to find that the frozen bodies (their arguments) will only provide food until such time that they too become floating ice cubes of flesh.

Now comes the first signs of desperation:

‘It isn't about whether there is end-time significance to the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland.’

Don’t defer to the Bible – argue on any ground than that. Don’t appeal to revelation – just rely on one set of opinions or the other – even if you are a Christian.

20 June 2011 at 14:07  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

carl jacobs said...

The Israelis have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so.

I take it that you are neither Christian nor Jew since both advocate fairness. Your comments are those of the playground bully. Thank *** I’m an atheist.

20 June 2011 at 14:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Davis: 'The Israelis have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so.'

The Americans have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so.

The British have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so.

The Chinese have the power to arrange matters according to their own interests, and they will do so.

You don't have to be a Christian or a Jew to argue in your country's national interest.

20 June 2011 at 14:15  
Blogger Windsor Tripehound said...

The retiring Israeli ambassador to the UK made a good point on Today a couple of weeks ago. After 1948 there were both Palestinian AND Jewish refugees. The State of Israel immediately undertook to resettle the Jewish refugees and that problem has disappeared.

The immensely wealthy Arab states did nothing and continue to do nothing for the Palestinians, so there's still a refugee problem 63 years later.

Before you say that there was no corresponding Palestinian "homeland", you'll find that there was - it was called Transjordan.

20 June 2011 at 14:16  
Anonymous Ahab`s Leg said...

Hamas and the current government of the West Bank population are striving to reach an accord. Hamas is an openly anti semitic organisation whose prime purpose is the killing of Jews.....not necessarily Israeli Jews.

"For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails."

Those who have ignored the realities of the situation should read Hamas Charter [from which the above was quoted] accessed below:-

....of course this will have no effect on convinced anti semites who wrap their prejudices in a blanket of anti Zionism

20 June 2011 at 14:33  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Graham Davis

"[Y]our comments are those of the playground bully."

Yes, heaven forfend that the Israelis should take steps to protect their population from a people who have sworn to destroy them. How dare they be so .. bullying.

Is that really the best argument you could muster? Is your case so bankrupt that you couldn't come up with anything substantial?


20 June 2011 at 14:33  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Mr Singh

You too justify the actions of the playground bully (my prediction at 09:57 has been amply fulfilled). RealPolitk is surely not a Christian aspiration?

20 June 2011 at 14:35  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Carl Jacobs

The accusation of anti-Semitism can’t be far away!

20 June 2011 at 14:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Davis: ‘Mr Singh You too justify the actions of the playground bully.’

The Hamas Charter states:

"For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails."


I reject those.

20 June 2011 at 14:40  
Blogger The Movie Man said...

Well done your grace. I think it is sickening for a nation which has been attacked several times by it's neighbors and is still attacked by terrorists next door, is considered a war criminal. In respect it is like my own country of Northern Ireland, outside the UK, the IRA are seen as Freedom fighting heroes and the men of the security forces (although I will admit they did do some bad things) are considered to be war criminals. Why is it that the left always favor the underdog, despite the fact that they are women and children killing animals.

20 June 2011 at 14:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Why is it that the left always favor the underdog,...'

Not always.

For example, they don't support little Taiwan against Red China.

20 June 2011 at 14:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Why is it that the left always favor the underdog,...'

Not always.

For example, they don't support little Israel against the 350 million hostiles that surround him.

20 June 2011 at 14:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:'

20 June 2011 at 15:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Davis: 'The accusation of anti-Semitism can’t be far away!'

A prediction fulfilled.

Anti-Semitic Islamo-fascist racist.

20 June 2011 at 15:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Say that's good I like that.

20 June 2011 at 15:22  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

Having met and endured lectures from "Saint" Desmond on may more occasions than I wish to recall while in South Africa, I do not hesitate to say that this irritating little bigot is always blind to anything which contradicts his world view that all 'whites' are evil racists and all people not white or in power are "oppressed."

For the record this little twerp bankrupted the cathedral of Johannesburg in the space of three years as Dean, then bankrupted the already impoverished Diocese of Lesotho, before emptying the bank account of the SA Council of Churches on luxury air travel for him and family on his campaigns around the world. His tenure as Archbishop of Cape Town was remarkable only in the fact that he failed to get his hands on the money in the Archdiocese coffers because they were forewarned!

As for the UN numbers on 'displaced Palestinians' I suspect they have never bothered to check and include everyone born since 1948 without actually subtracting those who have gone to enjoy their 72 virgins or whatever. Besides, the UN is patently anti-Israel and vehemently pro-Palestinian - a people who did not exist until Yasser Arafat coined the name in the 1960s (I wonder how many of HIS supporters acknowledge that the man was a serial pedophile?) and the Arab nations saw the immediate emotive appeal of having this "victim people" to inflame the bleeding hearts of the west with and extract cash from the Red Cross, the UN and any other "charity" for.

"Saint" Desmond should retire gracefully and keep quiet, sadly, he won't.

20 June 2011 at 15:28  
Blogger Gnostic said...

What I find ironic is that they are singing a song to support Hamas, a terrorist regime who sprays Palestinian weddings with bullets from automatic weapons for daring to, gasp, play music for enjoyment and celebration.

How frigging stupid is that?

20 June 2011 at 15:39  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

"Israel does not have a right to exist any more than Palestine"

So what right does any country have to exist? - I'm thinking of all the ME countries that were mapped out in the early part of the 20thC.

I'd be interested to see your reasons expanded.

20 June 2011 at 15:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Every age, every culture, every custom and tradition has its own character, its own weakness and its own strength, its beauties and cruelties; it accepts certain sufferings as matters of course, puts up patiently with certain evils. Human life is reduced to real suffering, to hell, only when two ages, two cultures and religions overlap"
Hermann Hesse

20 June 2011 at 16:27  
Blogger Graham Davis said...


Try quoting me completely, I said Israel does not have a right to exist any more than Palestine does but both must be given the same chance

Of course none of you responded to my comment about fairness. Besotted with Israel as most of you are I did not expect anybody to look dispassionately at the history/evidence. To criticise Israel means criticising the roots of your own faith. That is why religion stinks, its makes bigots of all of you.

20 June 2011 at 16:33  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Whatever he once was (?) Tuto no longer represents anyone other than his aggrandzing self; unfortunately, his 'self' is not as equally self-financing.

Desmondo clearly needs to restock the old coffers and maximise his 'Airmiles' for those exotic away-weeks he so enjoys.

Let's face it, he's not going to get far by supporting Israel; he's following the money; so what's new?

When one is a chump with a risible name, one is naturally attracted to a career in the circus.

Tutu: always a clown, but never a Ring-Master; thank God!

20 June 2011 at 16:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Desmond 2:2 sums up the quality of his thinking.

20 June 2011 at 17:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey! Don't mess with my Tutu!

20 June 2011 at 17:19  
Blogger Ariadne said...

However to any fair minded person it is clear that it is Israel must now give up land that they have illegally occupied in exchange for their right to exist in peace.

That's an egregious piece of deceit, Graham Davis.


Mr Davis, Mr Dodo and His Ex-Grace Desmond Tutu will still hate the Jews because they will succeed

All too true. I am convinced that Jew-hatred is a personality disorder.

20 June 2011 at 17:31  
Anonymous Jon said...

YG, I'm more interested in the fact that you've met people in "Israeli territories".

In 1556, wasn't Israel under the dominion of the Ottoman Empire?

Have you been appearing in the region as a spectre? If so, surely an appearance in a white sheet on Question Time wouldn't be inappropriate?

20 June 2011 at 17:41  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Jon,

Whilst a number of BBC producers have asked His Grace to appear on their programmes, Question Time has not been among them. Were they to do so, His Grace may be more tempted than he has ever been.

20 June 2011 at 17:50  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Desmond Tutu is a well meaning but totally misguided man. Desmond Tutu could well be a spokesman for all who come to the Arab/Israeli conflict with well meaning but totally naive and unrealistic viewpoints.
The' palestinian 'people are mere pawns in the Arab attempt to utterly destroy Israel.
The 'palestinians' are migrant Arab workers who flocked to Israel during the time when Jews brought the land of Israel back to prosperity. 'palestine' had no value to the Arabs ,until the Jews returned to their homeland.
This song endorsed By Desmond Tutu is a piece of crude anti Semitic propaganda.
No mention of the thousands of rockets fired by Hamas into Israel, suicide bombings and Hamas firing missiles into school buses.
The first arab sponsored terrorist attack upon Jews occurred in 1920, long before the establishment of Israel and long before there were any so-called' palestinians.'

20 June 2011 at 18:09  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

For the sake of brevity I did not quote your full statement because the question of fairness is totally irrelevant if you ignore history.

You made a statement and I asked you how you arrived at the position you stated because it simply begs the question.

Chastening me for not quoting you directly is a bit limp - how about developing your argument?

20 June 2011 at 18:12  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Peoples have the right to exist, not countries.

'Israel' has Jack **** right to exist.

have a nice day.

20 June 2011 at 18:14  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

I agree with Len.

20 June 2011 at 18:26  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...


Why is everyone who disagrees with you labelled anti-semetic and a Jew hater? You've traded on that accusation long enough.

Grow up! Address the issues!

20 June 2011 at 18:27  
Anonymous Old Blue Eyes said...

Veracity - Would you care to explain the comment about Methodists. I am not aware of any statement emanating from that religious body on this particular subject. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

20 June 2011 at 18:50  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Mr Dodo

I don't reply to neo-Nazi "arguments".

A splendid picture of Israel's "partner for peace" emerged on 16 June:

Palestinian Media Watch reports the following:

Recently three Antisemitic articles appeared in the official PA daily with the following messages:
1. Judaism is a "distorted, corrupted, falsified religion."

2. The Jews are inherently evil and inherited this nature from Cain who murdered his brother Abel.

3. Zionism is a religious Jewish plan to rule over the non- Jewish world, and "Goyim [non-Jews] must submit to their will"

4. Since Islam's creation its "enemies" have agreed on "cultivating evil against Islam and uprooting Muslims."

5. The creation of Israel is a "malignant cancerous growth."

6. The conflict between Palestinians and Jews is not about "land and borders," but "faith and existence."

Excerpts from the section on religion follow.

It was very well-known in the late 1940s that Arabs were responsible for the Arab refugee problem. How is it that so many people manage to swallow so many lies? And pay for them.

20 June 2011 at 19:02  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

"Of course none of you responded to my comment about fairness."

Well, since you insist. What exactly has "fairness" to do with international relations? Consider an example. Do you know why the Chinese want Taiwan? Because it's a big aircraft carrier. Do you know why the US doesn't want China to take possession of Taiwan? Because it's a big aircraft carrier. The Chinese want to build a blue-water navy and expand its reach into the Western Pacific. Currently the Chinese can't sail a canoe without it coming into regions dominated by the US military. Possession of Taiwan would give the Chinese a base for expansion. It would break the ring of bases around the Chinese perimeter.

Now, do we say "Oh, it's only fair that China should be able to expand its power into the South Pacific. It's a natural region of influence for China." I am sure the citizens of Taiwan do care a tinker's dam about fairness to China in this matter - especially given the consequences that will attach to Taiwan if China ever takes possession of it. Nor is the US concerned about 'fairness.' It is concerned about maintaining a strategic advantage over a potential enemy. This is called 'How nations operate in the Real World.'

Now the Israelis (who live in the Real World) are seeking to secure their population from a people who have a well-established desire to destroy that population. The first responsibility of a Gov't is to protect its citizens. The Israeli gov't is acting in accordance with that responsibility, and have exercised that responsibility. This has nothing to do with 'fairness.' The Israelis do not have some obligation to give the Palestinians a 'fair chance' at becoming a mortal threat.

If the Palestinians want a state, then they have two options. They will either have to 1) destroy the state of Israel and seize the land or 2) accept Israeli terms and prove they have forsaken their desire to destroy the Israelis. The former is not feasible. The later is unpleasant for Palestinian pride and aspiration. The idea that the Israelis can be pushed into a third option of accepting mortal risk for the sake of some abstract concept of 'fairness' is sheer fantasy. Israeli lives are more important than Palestinian desires.


20 June 2011 at 19:10  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

GAAAH! That should read:

I am sure the citizens of Taiwan do NOT care a tinker's dam ...

I blame Miocrsoft


20 June 2011 at 19:17  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...


Oh do stop throwing out childish insults - 'neo-nazi' indeed. Do you really understand the label?

20 June 2011 at 19:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Desmond Tutu is evil, that is all you need to know about him.

20 June 2011 at 19:53  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palestine was Patrilineal, Christianity is also a Patristic theology, Judah is Matrilineal, its all so complicated.

20 June 2011 at 20:37  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

If the Arab nations lay down their weapons there will be no more war.
If Israel lay down their weapons - there will be no more Israel.

20 June 2011 at 21:16  
Anonymous FranatAFI said...

Thank you, Your Grace, for your fearless stand on this issue.

20 June 2011 at 21:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dreadnaught said..."If the Arab nations lay down their weapons there will be no more war"

Muhammed tried that idea, submit to peace.

Chamberlain considered it with Hitler.

20 June 2011 at 22:00  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr Carl jacobs 19.10 said, 'The Chinese want to build a blue-water navy and expand its reach into the Western Pacific.' Absolutely correct. Two key Chinese objectives are to firstly neutralise the US base at Guam and to go on from there to control the Straits of Malacca. The role and loyalties of the Chinese micro-state of Singapore could one day surprise.

20 June 2011 at 22:10  
Anonymous Veracity said...

Old Blue Eyes , you are obviously not aware of the Methodist Report on Palestine/Israel adopted at the Methodist Conference 2010. It scurrilously attacks Israel on every level. It is totally one sided and another attempt to deligitimise Israel Before its publication the Board of Deputies of British Jews asked them to reconsider and that it should be balanced , giving due weight to both sides. This was roundly refused. That is what I mean by the lack of love and reconcilation by bodies like the Methodists, the World Council of Churches and Christian Aid as well as Tutu. People who set themselves up as peacemakers . No love, no working for reconciliation. I think it amounts to heresy .How are they loving their enemies ? Putting the boot in more like . Times are getting more and more like Nazi Germany for the beleagured Israelis . This time not the Jews but the Jewish nation is in their sights

20 June 2011 at 23:36  
Anonymous srizals said...

bluedog knows what he's talking about, this time. Would Malaysians suffer Johor as Palestinians suffer almost the whole of Palestine?

Len, an attack on your invaders, killers and looters is not an act of terror. Would you smile if a thief broke into your home?

20 June 2011 at 23:59  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

Mr Davis posts...
Besotted with Israel as most of you are -

Well as the BBC and the Liberal press and so called intelligentsia are besotted with the Moslems, then I'm glad to be besotted to redress the balance.

Facts: Israel supplies vast amounts of money to the PA
USA likewise not to mention the European Union.

Israel is rivalling California as a technology environment. It knows how to create wealth from the help it is given.

Arab nations could not give a damn about the Palestinians or the refugees. The only real friends the Palestinians have is the West.

What have the Palestinians ever done for themselves? A fair number of the brightest now have positions of power in Jordan. But the rest rely on jobs in Israel. Without Israel they would starve!

21 June 2011 at 00:00  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Apart from the evil insanity of Hitler shouldn't we consider why his ideas mesmerised the German people?

The injustice of the Treaty of Versailles is commonly cited as contributory factor; a grievance that so humiliated the German people that they succumbed to the madness of Facism and united around protecting themselves from Russian Communism.

The middle east is shaping up for another war. Israel is of course the superior military force in the region, the Arab nations being divided anyway, and as a democracy will no doubt continue to gain military support from the west. There is a slogan that Israel is the first line of defence against Islamic world domination and that Europe will follow her fall. Utter nonsense!

Time to settle this 40 year old dispute and give the Palestinian people their dignity back and neutralise the poison of Hamas and those Arab States who for internal reasons keep this going.

So says (according to other bloggers) a 'left-wing, anti-semetic, neo-facist'

21 June 2011 at 00:01  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

Mr Tutu should not take sides in violent conflicts, save that of peace itself.

As a Zionist of sorts, in the true sense of the word, I refrain from taking the side of any individual or group who uses violence as a means of effecting any kind of political or social change.

I refuse to understand how someone who sets themselves up as being a man of God gets involved in incredibly complicated Earth bound political issues.

Palestinian terrorism is now,
as it has always been; which is the greatest friend of its supposed enemy. It represents all that is counter-productive, as it has produced nothing but a never ending amount of excuses for Israeli expansionism, countless amount of prematurely dead people, and life threatening amounts of avoidable poverty.

Indeed as a general rule terrorism achieves nothing for the terrorists themselves, and even less for their reported cause, and just about everything for the ruling elites of those nations who are the supposed victims of it.

As this has been the experience of all forms of national and international terrorism over many years, logic would dictate that by now terrorism would have been permanently chucked in the dustbin of very silly ideas by now.

The apparent fact that terrorism seems to be on the rise if anything, should give us all serious cause to THINK for ourselves, and possibly for the first time in our entire lives.

Could it be that terrorism is not in anyway what we, The Israeli or The Palestinian people have been most dishonestly lead to believe it is?

Could it be that Palestinian terrorism is ultimately controlled by the exact same very powerful people/forces who very much helped to set up The State of Israel in the first place?

Not being a fly on a certain wall over 64 years ago, I can not say for sure.

However having researched much on this particular issue, over a very considerable amount of time, it would appear that there exists plenty of circumstantial, and some degree of actual evidence, which strongly suggests that this is precisely the case.

The same could, and IMO should be said about Irish Republican, and Loyalist Terrorism.

Please understand that terrorist groups, governments, banking institutions, and other large corporations, have much in common with each other.

They can all be run from the very top of the pecking order, while ensuring that those further down have absolutely no idea what is really going on at all, least of all where the finance, and overriding agenda comes from.

A smart punter knows that gambling is a mugs game, unless he has secrete inside information from a source which is controlling some, many, or more preferably all of the runners in the race.

21 June 2011 at 00:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Graham Davis said...


Try quoting me completely, I said Israel does not have a right to exist any more than Palestine does but both must be given the same chance

Of course none of you responded to my comment about fairness. Besotted with Israel as most of you are I did not expect anybody to look dispassionately at the history/evidence. To criticise Israel means criticising the roots of your own faith. That is why religion stinks, its makes bigots of all of you.

end quote

Of course - what is as usual ignored is that it was the Arab states then in existence that refused to allow Palestine to be born; or, perhaps more accurately ensured Palestine was still born whilst failing utterly in their attempt to do the same to the nascent Israel.

I would recommend that you read the UN resolution that gave birth to BOTH Israel and Palestine. But no one bothers - too intellectually lazy to challenge the myths of pan-Arabism.

Whilst you are researching that; you may want to ask why the 2nd and 3rd generation of people forced from their lands by the Arabs are allowed to uniquely claim refuge status ?

And also why uniquely; the Arab states that host these faux refugees are allowed to deny them equal rights and citizenship ?

21 June 2011 at 00:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only when it is accepted that Jacobs pillar and shivas lingum are one and the same, that the layout of the vatican represents a shaivite stone and jacob pillar, as does the stone in the Kaaba at mecca, then will our faiths find peace in the promised land, flung open by the cross keys of St Peter.

But that takes a Vedic leap of faith nobody is yet ready for.

21 June 2011 at 06:28  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Mr Dodo @ 00.01 said, 'The middle east is shaping up for another war.'

Yes indeed, a civil war between the various sects of Islam. Look at Syria; Allawite rulers, mainly Sunni population, financed by Iran, with a few fractious Kurds to round things off. They all hate each other. This one could run and run, same with Iraq.

If Israel faced a hostile European population there would be no chance. Fortunately the neighbours are Arabs, with time honoured gifts of total incompetence.

21 June 2011 at 09:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jeremy hyatt:

‘‘Peoples have the right to exist, not countries.

‘'Israel' has Jack **** right to exist.

‘have a nice day.’’

Go then hyatt in the way of your strain of the family: Korah, Dathan and Abiram.

I wonder, for every Mordecai and Esther, how many mosers there are.

21 June 2011 at 10:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Dodo:

'There is a slogan that Israel is the first line of defence against Islamic world domination and that Europe will follow her fall. Utter nonsense!'

I see another one who fails to understand: Sunday follows Saturday.

21 June 2011 at 10:19  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

It's plain and clear. Palestine and the palestinians are expendable pawns, being used by Hamas and the other terrorists as a lever to evoke the sympathy of the ignorant to finance their vision of World domination starting with Israel.
The terrorist organisations have made their intent towards Israel perfectly clear, Total destruction.
What happened to Jordan? one day it was there, then it was gone, along with King Hussein. Who have been the aggressors for decades, Israel or the Islamic Nations?.
Who boasted that were going to "push Israel into the sea"?.
The Sunnis Kill the Shias and vica versa, the Kurds are virtually wiped out in a holocaust. Israel is under siege, Christian Bretheren are persecuted and murdered, Hate is preached in the mosques of the World.
Yet some of you bleeding hearts are so blind that you sit and dab your eyes for 'Palestine'.
Many Palestinians are decent folk that find themselves between a rock and a hard place, indeed, many are Christians. I know many Muslims who are decent, hard working people and many Jews who are the same. But the corridors of power echo with the cries of those who are being used by men whose lust for World domination has created a cynical, heartless indifference to those they use.
Just like Stalin and Pol Pot when the pawns are of no further use, they will be eliminated.
"When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I wasn't a Jew........".


21 June 2011 at 13:08  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

D. Singh says to little me...

'Go then hyatt in the way of your strain of the family: Korah, Dathan and Abiram'

Ermmm righty. Not at all sure these chappies are related, though.

I believe Hyatt is an Anglo Saxon name and associated with Hertfordshire.

I'll give Uncle Korah your best if i see him, though...

21 June 2011 at 13:53  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Dr Singh said ...

"I see another one who fails to understand: Sunday follows Saturday."

Actually it doesn't! Sunday being the first day of the week is a fresh start and Saturday comes after it!

21 June 2011 at 14:01  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Mr. Dodo : fair enough, you deserve a smile for that one. As 'school-yard' goes, its a trump. :o)

21 June 2011 at 14:12  
Anonymous srizals said...

Len, a book for you to share with non mouse.

Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East

Care to share your source of Arab terror since 1920s?

21 June 2011 at 15:45  
Anonymous srizals said...

Please, do not talk about something you only partially understand. You might hurt other's feelings and your own dignity in the process. How much is your soul's worth?

21 June 2011 at 16:04  
Anonymous non mouse said...


21 June 2011 at 16:14  
Anonymous srizals said...


21 June 2011 at 16:40  
Anonymous srizals said...

I think I have made contact with a celestial being!

21 June 2011 at 16:45  
Anonymous jeremy 'relative of korah' hyatt said...


*low husky voice like the bloke in the fast show*


21 June 2011 at 17:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Total agreement with Jack Flash.(13:08)

Many Muslims are coming to know Jesus Christ as their redeemer and Saviour, Christians must reach out with the love of Jesus Christ to all the lost, the hopeless, and the suffering regardless of Nationality, colour, creed, or religion.
Interesting article by Walid Shoebat a former Palestinian terrorist;

21 June 2011 at 18:20  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Link I posted(18:20) doesn`t seem to work should be

YouTube - Why I Left Islam-Ex-Muslim terrorist Walid Shoebat

21 June 2011 at 18:29  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals, if you can recommend ifamericansknew it is all too clear that you know nothing.

It's a hate site.

21 June 2011 at 21:25  
Anonymous Jonathan Stuart-Brown said...

I thoroughly applaud Archbishop Cranmer's support of Israel. Bless you Your Grace.

21 June 2011 at 23:27  
Anonymous srizals said...

Ariadne, don't believe everything that others told you, check it out yourself, compare and contrast, the reality of now and the past, accept that man is unique and different from one another, live with it and stop supporting baby killers while being very afraid and cautious to 'hate site'.

The Holocaust is real, so does the extermination of thousands/tens of millions non-Jewish people at the same time and even in our so-called age of modernity and compassion!

Sabra and Shattila is real, Dier Yassin is real, Operation 'Grapes of Wrath' is real, so as 'Cast Lead'. The baby killers are real living monsters we have among us.

The dead do not suffer the living. They are now at peace in God's mercy. The living suffers each other. People have the tendency of killing merciless killers. You too. So grow up and don't act too much like you're such a nice little angel.

I promise you won't grow old hating yourself, one day.

21 June 2011 at 23:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism." -- PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, 1977

22 June 2011 at 08:29  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

Game, set and Match. Len.


22 June 2011 at 10:04  
Anonymous srizals said...

Len, you must quote all the uprooted Palestinians to make your claim legitimate. You must quote the land owners, the house landlords, the ones that were forced to flee under the threat of death!

Len, please answer me;

if a thief,an immigrant came from over the sea, kicking down your door, frightening your children, threatening to rape your wife, claiming that your house, your land, which you have legally bought with your own money and lawfully owned, your orchard, are all his?

And this is because about 2 thousand years ago his ancestors which he never ever met and never inherited their possessions to him lawfully or directly, used to live somewhere around the area of your house.

How would you have felt? Answer this question and I will recognise Israel as an exclusive country for the Jews.

Careful, a druid may be reading our conversation. We might not want him/her to get the wrong idea.

22 June 2011 at 13:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You remind me of King Canute.But instead of forbidding the sea to come in you seem to be trying to repel the truth.
If you keep stating error do you hope one day it will turn into the truth?

The waves are lapping about your feet Srizels.

In answer to your question if a migrant worker set up camp in your garden and one day claimed your house would you give it to him?

22 June 2011 at 16:20  
Anonymous srizals said...

You're not answering Len. You're dodging. Be honest, at least to yourself.

22 June 2011 at 17:52  
Blogger Ariadne said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 June 2011 at 19:52  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals, I don't have to know a single thing about anyone here to recognise lying Muslim Arab propaganda when I see it.

That's what you are posting and you seem not mindful of the Muslim-Nazi links that perpetuated and intensified some of the most vile Jew-hatred which most Arabs swallow whole from the Koran.

In the 1940s as I said above it was commonly known that Arabs were responsible for the Arab flight propagandised as the "nakba".

It's time to stop cossetting thieves and liars no matter how many descendants they produce in the interests of exterminating Jews first. Let them go back to their ancestral homelands.

You are just another untruthful Jew-hater, srizals.

22 June 2011 at 21:40  
Blogger srizals said...

Ariadne, why do you use labels as your point of arguments?

I don't hate the Jews, I hate baby killers, thieves, robbers, liars and leech-like humans.

Maybe you should be reading this,

"Yet there were incongruities he could never understand. Everywhere he looked in Israel, he saw German equipment. The icons of nazi commerce– Mercedes, Grundig, Siemens, Krupp–were thriving in the Jewish State, even as the ban on Wagner’s music was strictly enforced. And so many families were German Jews who had come to Israel during the Hitler era. For a year, he filed Rabbi Sherwin’s rumor in a mental box of imponderables. He had said many times that the most important rule in approaching the Holocaust is that nothing makes sense. And yet he needed to make sense out of it. If he could, then perhaps there was a reason his mother and father had lived, while six million had died."

"When he told his parents, his mother threatened to disown him and my father threatened to personally strangle him if he dared lend any credence to the notion of nazi-Zionist cooperation. This was done against a background of rising anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli attempts to somehow link the nazi regime with Zionists.

When he later showed his parents a hundred-page summary of his proposed book, his mother cried and said, “now I understand what I could never understand. Write the book.”

His father, who fought in the war as a Zionist Betar partisan, also gave him his blessing with the simple words: “Go write the book.”

You have been lied to.

22 June 2011 at 23:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hate is a poison which has distorted your perception of reality.
I think you are no longer able to know what the truth actually is, if you persist God will allow you to believe the lies.
Perhaps He already has.

22 June 2011 at 23:33  
Anonymous avi barzel said...

Your Grace, you're a *mensh.*

23 June 2011 at 00:20  
Blogger srizals said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 June 2011 at 12:13  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Srizals,

You are (once again) trying His Grace's patience. Almost every comment you make has a link to a website which does not actually prove anything; indeed, some are simply offensive.

All such contributions will henceforth be categorised as spam, as were your lengthy and interminable quotations from the Qur'an. Socratic argument is a skill you would do well to study.

23 June 2011 at 12:24  
Blogger srizals said...

Yes, yes, thank you, your grace, I will.

Maxima omnium virtutum est patient.

23 June 2011 at 12:37  
Blogger srizals said...

Patientia est virtus.

23 June 2011 at 12:42  
Blogger Ariadne said...


I hate baby killers, thieves, robbers, liars and leech-like humans.

Hamas and those who voted for them.

And why have you posted a quotation from another hate site? Is hate all you know?

23 June 2011 at 22:13  
Anonymous srizals said...


You do not know what hate is, until you have been treated by your fellow humans, who are afraid of you and thus hate you for it.

Whatever atrocities committed onto the Palestinians, local Jews, Christians and Muslims alike will never be seen as 'reciprocities' by you.

What does Hamas rob and how many babies that it killed intentionally? Were they robbing the dead ancient Israelites? How is this possible?

Whose blood is being sucked out dry by Hamas? Jewish cheap labourers?

I know hate in looking at how little children signed bombs about to be used on children of their age-group.

I know hate at looking on bikers of Harleys drinking and cheering as they looked on a merciless bombardment in a bizzare 'war'. They were at 'war', they should have been crying and scared of their lives. They shouldn't have shown to the world that 'war' is like having a vacation/hunting season.

I know hate in knowing how a people could be driven out by 'superior' beings from their homes and lands and dying in front of my eyes, imprisoned for crimes of existence and having their little loved ones die in agony, their homes destroyed as reprimand whenever any of their braves dared to fight their supreme invaders.

Now, tell me about your love.

24 June 2011 at 00:26  
Anonymous srizals said...

Ariadne, my, this is getting difficult for me. But I'll try. Some asking me for proof of Israelis' atrocities while others just want me to 'brag' about it without any references.

We all know people die in war, these people are warriors, heavily armed to the teeth, able to kill one another, with chivalry and knightly hearts. Another group of people, known as unarmed and defenseless civilians, without any abilities to inflict the same harm inflicted upon them, must not be hurt in a battle of courage.

"Israeli soldiers unlawfully shot and killed at least 11 Palestinian civilians, including five women and four children, who were in groups waving white flags to convey their civilian status.

"Israeli aerial drones launched missiles that killed 87 civilians (not including police) in Gaza, according to human rights NGOs. Victims included children playing on rooftops and students waiting for a bus in areas where there was no evidence of military activity. Drone operators have the time and capacity to clearly see their targets on the ground."

Human Right Watch. Google HRW

"Of the approximately 510 Lebanese civilian deaths investigated by Human Rights Watch, at least 300 were women or children. Human Rights Watch visited more than 50 Lebanese villages and interviewed 316 victims and eyewitnesses, as well as 39 military experts, journalists and Israeli, Lebanese government and Hezbollah officials."
Why They Died

"Israel has a legal obligation to protect the civilian population of Gaza,” said Malcolm Smart, director of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Programme. “These attacks are disproportionate and go beyond lawful measures which Israeli forces may take in response to rocket attacks by Palestinian armed groups."

Amnesty International.

Are these hate sites too?

Ariadne, when the killing stops, the hate will disappear by itself. Forgiveness will replace it. Compensate, say sorry and amend wrongs. It's only natural for humans to err. It's unnatural to err proudly and sadistically.

24 June 2011 at 07:50  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals, of course HRW and AI are hates sites as far as Israel is concerned.

Judging by your mendacious and voluminous output I'd say it's too late for you to begin a search for truth.

However, the funding of NGOs ruled by antisemitism is monitored by Professor Steinberg.

More detail here and here.

Less closed minds should find the site illuminating.

24 June 2011 at 12:13  
Anonymous srizals said...


Google The Zionist Story at Gilad Atzmon. Like you say, "Less closed minds should find something like this illuminating."

Our definition of love and hate is obviously not the same. May we find peace. Amin.

25 June 2011 at 14:43  
Anonymous srizals said...


The only reason why the Zionist managed to grab it from Muslim's hands was because some Muslims had believed the British and betrayed the Muslim's brotherhood and thus had to endure 60 years of their mistake. The brotherhood was broken and it still is. So I guess you have won. Pray that the Muslims won't unite. Many have become so reliant to the West. Wealth does have certain addiction effect, many are afraid of living a year or two without it. Enjoy your 60 years of fragile victory, hiding behind fortified walls, always in fear. What an odd victory it is, being in fear, always.

25 June 2011 at 14:58  
Anonymous srizals said...


A letter that you should read at Norman Finkelstein.

"I am not asking you lightly to stand up to what you believe in. I used to be in the Israeli elite paratroopers, but after what I saw and was forced to do, I vowed that I would never go back to the Army and act as a tool for enslaving 3.5 million people in their own land without any basic human rights. As a soldier refusing to go to the reserve duty (I am a member of the Courage to Refuse group of IDF officers), I live with the constant threat of imprisonment. You can appreciate therefore that I do understand ‘outside pressure'. I just wish you the courage to follow your own ideals and integrity, because as a president of the Oxford Union, your fellow students and intellectuals world over expect nothing less of you.

I wish you the best,

Ronen Berelovich"

May peace prevail over tyranny. Amin.

25 June 2011 at 15:15  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals, you have not posted one syllable here that is not from antisemites.

Why, why, why?

25 June 2011 at 19:39  
Blogger srizals said...


People oppose Israel because of injustices and tyranny. Not because it is ruled by a Jewish government. Research has shown that the Palestinians, the Arabs and the Jews residing in the Holy land, and the whole of Levant are closely related. They both have Abraham's bloodline running in their veins. They are both Semite.

The people I've quoted are not anti Semite. They are anti-injustices and anti-tyranny. They just don't have NATO to do their bidding. I don't think that they want all the Israelis nowadays to be killed and enslaved again in yet another mass killing. Neither do I.

What's done is done. What we can do now is remedy the wrongs. Compensate the victims of war that created Israel. Give them justice. Bring the war criminals from both side to justice in International Court of their choice. Stop the killing by condemning them instead of supporting them with a nod or being silent and indifferent. There can be peace when justice reign once more in the Holy land.

Everyone gets to live, most importantly, without fear and guilt. Both elements are known as the eaters of the souls. Some could suffer them in silence for decades. What's life if we can't live it in harmony? With others and especially with ourselves?

Stop this madness, Ariadne. Let's live in differences. Let go and let God.

Do you know that Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish women and they can remain in Judaism? Is this an act of hate or love? Would they marry a Jewess if they are anti-Semite? Why do you think Israel is making inter-marriage between Palestinians and Israelis illegal?


Who had protected the Jews from the Christians throughout history?

Who had killed them in mass in the Crusades, Pogroms and Andalusia?

25 June 2011 at 23:57  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals. there are no takers for your antisemitic lies.

Demolishing the myths of the propaganda war against Israel. Part One.

Demolishing the myths of the propaganda war against Israel. Part Two.

Demolishing the myths of the propaganda war against Israel. Part Three.

26 June 2011 at 09:03  
Anonymous srizals said...

Thanks for the links, Ariadne. Will read them up afterwards. Ehem. Please do not delete these links, your grace. I'll need them for future references. Have to do some shopping with the kids.

26 June 2011 at 13:58  
Anonymous srizals said...

Ariadne, sorry for have kept you waiting.

If the Palestinians do not exist, why oh why Ariadne, Israelis had to drive the people that owned the lands and houses out in order to give birth to an exclusive Jewish state? Were they illegal immigrants of the Ottoman Empire?

Interestingly, from whom did they inherited the lands of Trans-Jordan in the first place? Was it the British? Why did people call it as the British Mandate back then? I don't recall anyone calling the Malay lands before Malaysia as a British Mandate during the colonial era, do you? What's the difference?

27 June 2011 at 11:15  
Blogger Ariadne said...

srizals. haven't you heard of WWI?

You would learn more from reading history than from reading hate sites.

Thoe 3 articles I gave links for explain an awful lot. Perhaps you should give them the attention they merit.

27 June 2011 at 19:09  
Anonymous srizals said...

Perhaps, Ariadne, perhaps...

28 June 2011 at 23:27  

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