Wednesday, June 08, 2011

Lords Bill to tackle Sharia Courts



From the Christian Institute:

A new Bill was introduced yesterday in the House of Lords that will help address the problem of Sharia courts operating in England and Wales.

The Bill was introduced by Baroness Cox, and is supported by a wide range of groups including The Christian Institute and the National Secular Society.

The Bill does not affect the internal affairs of religious groups, but does make it a crime for Sharia courts to act as though they have jurisdiction over criminal law or family law.

The Bill makes it clear that discrimination against women will not be lawful in arbitration tribunals, so that it will be illegal for a woman's testimony to be treated less favourably than a man's.

Please pray:

• That the Bill will gain support in the Lords
• That there will be widespread, fair and accurate media coverage
• For Lady Cox, as she takes her Bill forward
• That the Government will make encouraging statements in response to the Bill
• For the women suffering injustice under Sharia law
• For our legal system, that it would uphold justice and righteousness and protect Christians who convert from Islam

93 Comments:

Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

The final request in your prayer list is akin to praying for the Devil to repent; utterly pointless.

8 June 2011 at 12:03  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

Amen to that, your Grace. I know a number of ex-Muslims who are forced to hide their shift of faith and lead double lives because of Sharia demands for their execution for "apostasy."

8 June 2011 at 12:28  
Blogger len said...

In the interests of freedom of speech and freedom of religion everyone in a democracy should vote for the protection of Muslims who convert to Christianity and other basic rights.
For if they do not have these (very basic ) freedoms what does that say about our Country.?
We do not live in an Islamic State!.
All Citizens of the U K are entitled to these very basic rights and freedoms.

8 June 2011 at 12:55  
Anonymous i albion said...

I think we do live in an Islamic State at least parts of England are Islamic,
If it were not so why would we have Baroness Cox bringing this forward?
To little to late and all the questions in the Lords are not going to achieve a thing.
If we try and do something about it, it will (so we are told) cause more militancy,if we do not do anything it will cause more militancy.
So lets not kid ourselves.

8 June 2011 at 13:36  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Just outlaw the damned lot including Beth Din. One law for all,
No Sharia over here.

8 June 2011 at 14:00  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Just outlaw the damned lot including Beth Din. One law for all,
No Sharia over here.

8 June 2011 at 14:00  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Oops

8 June 2011 at 14:01  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

I have read the Bill.

I can see the politics in the sub-text.

‘Polygamous’ eh?

What a clever strategy.

We must support the Bill!

8 June 2011 at 14:01  
Anonymous Voyager said...

This is confusing. Parliament passes a law in English for non-English speakers. In cities like Bradford the Shrouded Ones do not converse in English, some cannot read. 50% marriages are to spouses imported from Mirpur, often first cousins, and valued for their inability to speak English.

The W Y Police is one of the biggest forces outside The Met but turns a blind eye to what happens in the townships so long as there are no explosions.

Just how does anyone expect such a law to be enforced ? I mean there was a woman murdered in her home in broad daylight and the perpetrators walked out of her home afterwards, and noone wants to identify them.

Sometimes it seems Parliament is a complete irrelevance

8 June 2011 at 14:50  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Hallellujah! From 'small acorns' etc...

8 June 2011 at 14:57  
Anonymous LibertyPhile said...

At last something is being done.

Perhaps now someone will look into why the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal has as the main image on its home page a photo of a judges gavel (are they used in arbitration, I wonder) and why they have a photo of Lord Philips in his judge’s regalia (does he know, does he approve?)

See: http://www.matribunal.com/

It looks as if they are trying to give the impression that they are fully equivalent to an English court.

8 June 2011 at 15:33  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Please pray:

• That the Bill will gain support in the Lords
• That there will be widespread, fair and accurate media coverage
• For Lady Cox, as she takes her Bill forward
• That the Government will make encouraging statements in response to the Bill
• For the women suffering injustice under Sharia law
• For our legal system, that it would uphold justice and righteousness and protect Christians who convert from Islam

But first recourse -
WRITE TO YOUR LOCAL MP.

8 June 2011 at 15:34  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dreadnaught,

Have you learnt nothing from the last 50 years or so?

What if your MP is a muslim? What if they are a rabid lefty, who thinks that people who ask questions are 'bigoted, very, very bigoted' (see Brown vs Gillian Duffy)?

Being part of the green ink brigade is completely useless.

8 June 2011 at 15:39  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

EV

There are Muslim MPs of course and a few Rabid Lefties but 'thems as don't ask - don't want I says. Better to put things on record - pray if you wish but make it an each way bet and put your X where it constitutionally matters as well.

8 June 2011 at 15:51  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dreadnaught,

Voting simply confers the illusion of choice upon the voter.

You are showing signs of the years of conditioning you have been exposed to. MP's are our representatives, our servants. We don't ask them, we tell them. That they now behave like elected dictators and pay not one, blind bit of notice to the demands of the electorate is all the more reason to remove them. Permanently.

One example: name me a single party which has held sway in the last 50 years which ever proposed mass immigration of third world dependents in it's manifesto, or requested the permission of the electorate for such a move.

If you can't think of a single instance, why are there millions and millions of such people in the country?

8 June 2011 at 16:00  
Anonymous Paul C said...

http://equalandfree.org/

This website is very helpful on the issue.

8 June 2011 at 16:09  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

A most welcome move YG, a little good news in a World of horror stories.

I shall pray with utmost gaiety!

8 June 2011 at 16:25  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

We don't ask them, we tell them

Look - I am as cynical as you regarding pollies, but as we would wish to live in a civilised, democratic society, there is no harm in maintaining a modicum of - well ... civility.

Unlike yourself goodself, I am not given to posturing with an exposed chopper or do I have a hot-line to heaven, so I guess I will have to make do with whatever resources are at my disposal.

8 June 2011 at 16:37  
Anonymous Paul said...

A good thing !!

8 June 2011 at 16:49  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Viki the Norse Troll

What a load of old bo**ocks you spout!

What would you have people do? Ignore the democratic process and judicial system? You really do want to wave your little axe don't you.

Pathetic fantasist! How old are you - 12 years?

8 June 2011 at 16:56  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Is there any danger of that odious Lord Ahmed calling on ten thousand Muzzies to march against this? I only ask because we know what these Islamics are like when they can't get their own way.

8 June 2011 at 17:19  
Anonymous Ahab`s Leg said...

Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Just outlaw the damned lot including Beth Din. One law for all,
No Sharia over here.



The Beth Din provides a rabbinical court to arbitrate in civil matters eg tort for religious Jews who wish to use it. Its results as far as I am aware are not legally binding and participants can take their case through the courts system subsequently if they wish. Its jurisdiction is quite limited. There are ten times more Muslims than Jews in this country and contrary to some opinions from both left and right, religious and non religious they don`t want to take over the world and create a "Rabbinate". It is in no way comparable to Sharia.

8 June 2011 at 17:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Well, I think the Christian Institute are akin to the Daily Mail but that all looks pretty good on the face of it. Apart from the praying of course. Not that it does any harm. Or good, apparently.

8 June 2011 at 17:20  
Anonymous Grey Pheonix said...

Who is doing anyting about creeping sharia? The only group I know of that are not rabid extremists are: Freedom Democrates, a bit like Geert Wilders lot in Holland.
www.freedom-democrat.org

8 June 2011 at 17:32  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

A small step in the right direction but we need to do more to assert British values.
Why do Muslims complain so much after choosing to live here unless it is to replace our culture with their own religious ideology?
While Islamists are busy persecuting non-Muslims in Islamic states we spend millions trying to accommodate them and their alien ideology.
As Enoch said, "We must be mad."

8 June 2011 at 17:33  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

If they do not pass it, we still have Imperium in Imperio Law.

Why don't the Traitors use that?

8 June 2011 at 17:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"Why do Muslims complain so much after choosing to live here unless it is to replace our culture with their own religious ideology?"

Lots of them have been born here. That is, their interests are British interests like any others held by Britons. Just not mainstream.

8 June 2011 at 17:43  
Anonymous Oswin said...

They are NOT British.

8 June 2011 at 17:45  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"They are NOT British."

Clearly they are. But not in some way acceptable to people like you. That is the core of it, really. If someone has been born here and has full British nationality then what are they other than British? Where would they go if Britain in some hideous illiberal fashion decided they were not wanted or acceptable here?

8 June 2011 at 17:50  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

Quite right DanJO, lots of them have been born here and in increasing numbers with a birth rate well in excess of the indigenous population but British interests! I think not. Under Islam our country, and every other, belongs to Allah. If Islam becomes dominant we would not be welcome in our own country unless we submit. You may be happy with that but many are not, including me. Check my blog.

8 June 2011 at 17:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"Quite right DanJO, lots of them have been born here and in increasing numbers with a birth rate well in excess of the indigenous population but British interests!"

Well, perhaps the rest of us should adopt a more Catholic approach to marital sex to get the whitey birth rate up? I guess that without waving my turkey baster around I'm relying on you guys. Get to it!

8 June 2011 at 18:04  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Actually, that might have an interesting effect on British society. We'd probably go backwards in some respects. Lots of women would end up being pregnant or stuck in child rearing to the extent that they couldn't have a full career in the way men could. With one household income, house prices would drop. And I suppose there would be lots more jobs for men.

8 June 2011 at 18:08  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Sorry AL,

One Nation - One Law for All.

I don't think that we should have anything in this land, that sets one group apart from another with regard to law. Surely the fact that anyone who wishes to live as a British citizen first and foremost, should recognise the need for parity and cohesive inclusion.

I take your point on the number crunching - but can you imagine how much the public perception of British Jews would be exemplified by declaring the suspending of Beth Din courts?

You state that these Rabbinical directions are not binding - so this to me at least would seem a small but highly significant contribution to the long term security of everyone.

Worth the 'sacrifice' surely?

As has been proven time and time again, the more we British give - the more entrenched Islam becomes. Not only Muslims - Now we have Sikhs wanting their kids to carry daggers in their belts to school despite the common law against carrying knives. Bad enough when they were allowed to ride on a motor bike without a helmet, while for the rest of us it is a punishable offence.

I say 'not another inch'(millimetre if you prefer) more, in our accommodation of the 'need' for special status of immigrant cultures.

I would say to you (perhaps you are Jewish), there has been no better opportunity to better serve your selves than to drop BD, lest you give in to the equivalence argument of the Islamists and Sikhs.

8 June 2011 at 18:09  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Nope, the 'law' does NOT sufficiently determine whether one is 'British' or not. Other than being English, Welsh, Scots or Irish 'British' no other additions should permissable.

A 'British muslim' is an untenable title that should never, ever be allowed utterance.

Fair enough if a nominal muslim wishes to be British, first and foremost, with no desire to parade his 'pivate' choice of religion, excepting for 'birth, marriages and deaths.' Anything other would be an alien intrusion.

8 June 2011 at 18:12  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dread: "Now we have Sikhs wanting their kids to carry daggers in their belts to school despite the common law against carrying knives."

It's Statute law I think and there's a religious exemption clause in there to go along with a work use exception clause.

8 June 2011 at 18:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Thanks Oswin.

8 June 2011 at 18:14  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

They are British, because that in itself is an artificial construct that included the Scots, Irish and Welsh. Being British means absolutely nothing; it is simply a paperwork exercise, (the same one the EU is inflicting on the entire of Western Europe, BTW) an administrative trick to dilute a once near homogenous society to the point where even the indigenous do not know who they are, where they came from or what values they should espouse.

The problem is a deliberate blurring of ethnicity with nationality; time was when they were usually the same thing, but alas, no more.

They are not English. That would be impossible. Just the same as you cannot get ethnically Japanese black people, it is equally ridiculous to say you could have any colour of Englishman, other than white.

This is one reason why I am the English Viking. Not a single scrap of me is British.

Dodo,

Stop trolling. You're looking like a hysterical school-girl, scweaming and scweaming until she is sick.

8 June 2011 at 18:15  
Blogger len said...

Well the plan for de- constructing the E U countries is working well.
Very soon no one will remember who the were, and where they came from,which is what unrestricted immigration is all about ,isn`t it? Which is very good for us running the E U. Breaking down countries individually is a good idea is it not?,remove power from them slowly and they will not even realise it has gone , until it is too late. Divide and conquer is a strategy that is working well for us.
We would pay the Liberals as they are doing such a good job but they are so gullible that they work for nothing!.
When we have completely flattened and demoralised the serfs we can then swoop in and take over.
Don`t let on to the liberals what we are doing though, they are sooooo gullible.

8 June 2011 at 18:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking: "The problem is a deliberate blurring of ethnicity with nationality; time was when they were usually the same thing, but alas, no more."

Perhaps we need a sort of Standard Deviation for ethnicity where weird Yorkshiremen and urbane Home Counties fall within one SD, Irish Liverpudlians and all Gypsies fall just outside of it, and Muslims and Catholics fall well outside of it? Would that suit?

8 June 2011 at 18:24  
Anonymous Oswin said...

English Viking : that's a bit unfair towards Miss Violet Elizabeth Bott, surely?

8 June 2011 at 18:26  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I'm blagging about standard deviation by the way. I never really did stats and probability properly in maths. Or it didn't stick anyway. :)

8 June 2011 at 18:27  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo - heaven forbid having to be in the same room as Yorkshire folk and 'Home-Counties' types, be they 'weird/urbane' or otherwise!

I think that's entirely my point, we all of us make allowances; but let's not get too silly.

8 June 2011 at 18:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

It's my point too Oswin. We're not even remotely mono-cultured within the not-Muslim set.

8 June 2011 at 18:38  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Ah, we agree! As soon as we are 'muslim-free' the sooner I can invade Cumbria!

8 June 2011 at 18:40  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

DanJo

I'm sure you appreciate that there is more to being British than simply being the holder of a British Passport. Bad enough to have to declare on official forms the colour of your skin FFS. No more cherry picking of what bits of our culture immigrants may wish to exclude themselves.

Enough is already too much.

Thanx for the legal pointer :-)

8 June 2011 at 18:42  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

EV said:-
They are not English. That would be impossible.

That if you will forgive me, is just plain daft.

I could not say for certain that one of my ancestors came from Nubian Africa with one of the Roman Legions - but I am English and proud of it.

I dare you to define what you mean by English without falling back on the discredited WASP fallacy.

8 June 2011 at 18:54  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dread: "I'm sure you appreciate that there is more to being British than simply being the holder of a British Passport."

I do. But it's defining it. For instance, I'd like to be considered British yet I'm clearly very, very different to Oswin. What do we have in common that could be used other than (say) a particular DNA profile? And would that exclude D Singh, assuming that name is indicative? A liberal, tolerant outlook on national life? Nope. Being able to explain who Willian the Conqueror was? Nah. Being a Christian?! That's most of us in the UK left in a cultural limbo then. It's a problem isn't it?

8 June 2011 at 18:55  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

Some commentators appear to regard this as a bit of a joke.
‘We need to wake up, draw a line in the sand, and say enough is enough… Britain's cultural and spiritual heritage are under threat.’ - Baroness Cox in 2007.
Did they not click on the link Your Grace so helpfully provided?
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2007/06/baroness-cox-britain-is-deeply.html

8 June 2011 at 18:57  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

I failed to mention the even St George was a Roman soldier born in what is now Syria.

8 June 2011 at 18:58  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

DanJo

No need to define the undefineable other than simply to be judged by your behaviour and allegiance to our country.

Do we really need WW3 to restore our national identity? - I don't think so.

8 June 2011 at 19:03  
Anonymous Voyager said...

I failed to mention the even St George was a Roman soldier born in what is now Syria..

As Patron Saint of Moscow that must be a great concern !

Britain is a Hanoverian creation and has existed only since the Kings of Hanover sat atop the English Throne and the Duke of Cumberland destroyed the French puppet wearing a kilt

8 June 2011 at 19:03  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Ancient Britain, no it isn't a joke, but a fair point can be made with a little school-boy humour from time to time. I think it is quite pertinent to stress that most of us cannot tolerate each other greatly; thus what chance a foreigner? A simple and basic point too readily forgotten by those of a liberal bent.

8 June 2011 at 19:09  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

V
As Patron Saint of Moscow that must be a great concern!

Couldn't be more wrong sir.

Thanks for the effort, but are you sure you really want to give lessons in history which inevitably rely on the production of verifiable evidence?

8 June 2011 at 19:17  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dread: "No need to define the undefineable other than simply to be judged by your behaviour and allegiance to our country."

It's not a bad idea, per se, but it's not quite there. I'm convinced that most Muslims in the UK are decent, law-abiding people. Are we all happy with Hindus from Gujarat and places too as a group? I am. So that leaves allegiance, which I take to mean commitment and loyalty to the country.

I'm committed to the country but I want to change its political, legal, and religious structure. Does that mean I am not the same sort of British as (say) His Grace who appears to want a Christian State based on the Church of England and without EU membership?

Perhaps it just means one is willing to go to war for the country? Well, I'm not unless it's a WW2 type scenario. None of these recent foreign policy adventures for me. If a Muslim wants to change our State to be more Muslim-oriented but is willing to fight on the side of the UK in a WW2 then does he get to be British in this way of thinking?

8 June 2011 at 19:28  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dreadnaught.

No-one knows much about Georgie, except he was not English and never came to England. Probably a Turk.

He is the Patron St of Russia, so I guess that includes Moscow, eh?

Don't get too carried away with Wiki, it's terribly unreliable.

It's is impossible to debate the subject of ethnicity through the medium of a comment box. I will say this though;

trying to prove that there is no such ethnicity as English by going back thousand and thousands of years, to some unknown and indeterminate predecessor, is disingenuous. I do not wish to see a return to how things were in the dim and distant past. 1900 will do fine. I assume you would not use the same argument with a Maori, or a Samoan, or an Australian aborigine. If we use your arguments, the US should just pack up (I was going to say 'and go home', but) and hand the whole place over to the Apaches and the Comanches.

Why would you deny that there is an indigenous species on the British Isles, but not in Australia, and why would you think that to deny the right of the Australia aborigine to express, protect and propagate his own cultural and racial heritage would be outright discrimination, but when an Englishman wants exactly the same right, he's a Nazi?

8 June 2011 at 19:35  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

You might be happy with Hindus from Gudjarat.

I, on the other hand...

8 June 2011 at 19:37  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Are the indigenous Australians trying to protect their cultures within the umbrella of modern Australian culture or are they wanting to deport all the newcomers in the last 400 years or so and revert back?

8 June 2011 at 19:44  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"DanJ0, You might be happy with Hindus from Gudjarat. I, on the other hand..."

I was just checking if it was Islam and its apparent lack of peaceful intent and reluctance to co-exist that's the problem. That's what I get from many of the comments here but perhaps that's just a smokescreen for the real issue.

8 June 2011 at 19:48  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0

The native Australian aborigines have been so swamped with non-indigenous over the past 300 years that what they want doesn't matter anymore. They are a statistical insignificance to to non-native majority.

You make my point exactly.

I have no smokescreen: you can squeal 'racist' if you wish, but you are inconsistent in who you squeal it at, if you do.

8 June 2011 at 19:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"I have no smokescreen: you can squeal 'racist' if you wish, but you are inconsistent in who you squeal it at, if you do."

I don't actually squeal despite my camping things up for a laugh. I'd rather people are open if they have racist views as I have no arguments for them. It's pointless (say) arguing about whether all Muslims are a danger to our liberal tradition or just the nutters within it if the actual reason why those people don't like Muslims is because most of them have brown skin and dark hair, or their family tree doesn't stretch back seven generations in Bradford.

8 June 2011 at 20:07  
Anonymous Ahab`s Leg said...

Dreadnaught
"I would say to you (perhaps you are Jewish), there has been no better opportunity to better serve your selves than to drop BD, lest you give in to the equivalence argument of the Islamists and Sikhs."

Beth Din "courts" have been in existance for over 2,000 years. All Jewish people wherever they live are as citizens of these states instructed that their first loyalty is to that state of which they are part. If a group of people [not exclusive to Jews] freely allow learned scholars to decide whether a contract is fair or an action was slanderous that is a blessing and an example to all free people. Sharia is a clear example of authoririanism and the exerting of power in order to control a population; the antithesis of the freedom that permeates all aspects of Judaism.

8 June 2011 at 20:19  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

I don't care what colour a person is, but not having a heritage in Bradford (if that is where they live) whilst simultaneously trying to deny me my heritage, well, I do not understand why someone would not have a problem with that.

You speak of muslims and nutters as if they were somehow different.

8 June 2011 at 20:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am finding this line of discussion rather fascinating but because it is so 'close to home' I feel it may be easier to deal with at a distance than in the here and now UK.

Permit me to stand all things uK to one side and consider it thus:-

Is an American of recent Japanese parentage, any less of an American patriot than one whose ancestors arrived on the Mayflower - (OK Viking - I am aware that Lief Ericsson touched base there before but...)

How about it then?

8 June 2011 at 20:58  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Beautifully produced film! Wonderful imagery -- a decapitated bus passing behind mindless puppets who spout mechanical lines about something called "law" even as they define the term "nation."

The female with the foreign-sounding title is presumably just another feminazi. They're the kind for whom "Home is where Hell is."

8 June 2011 at 21:02  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"I don't care what colour a person is, but not having a heritage in Bradford (if that is where they live) whilst simultaneously trying to deny me my heritage, well, I do not understand why someone would not have a problem with that."

So why do you have a problem with Hindus originally from Gujurat? We have lots of those in Leicester and as a group they don't seem to be trying to deny anyone their heritage as far as I can tell. They run businesses, employ people, pay tax, produce more graduates, and live side by side with other types of people.

8 June 2011 at 21:09  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

DanJo

as a group they don't seem to be trying to deny anyone their heritage

No they are not - but we are.

8 June 2011 at 22:02  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

Yeah, they're great. I love their idolatry, the sword waving, theatre smashing, rights demanding little scamps.

Anon 20:58,

American is the same thing as British, it is a nationality, made up of different countries, amalgamated by force (physical or economic). It is not an ethnicity. Passports are issued will-nilly, regardless of ethnicity. Not so in your motherland, I believe.

So yes, if you want to be patriotic about a nation that is not your own, ethnically speaking, why not?

I'm rather fond of Norway, although the difference in the comparison is that the ethnicities of Norway and England (amongst others) are inter-linked, where as those of Japan and the US settlers were not.

8 June 2011 at 22:11  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

EV
What a strange little world you appear to live in. The earliest migrations of the human kind have been traced back to the Rift Valley in Africa. But I suppose you would be naturally in denial about this - No?

8 June 2011 at 22:56  
Blogger Owl said...

The British culture is under threat from various minority groups of which, Islam is but one.

British culture has evolved over many centuries and we can identify with it. We can also criticise parts of it as it belongs to us as much as we belong to it.

Secular religionists are a minority who wish to change it to their own ideas which we find threatening and foreign. We will therefore fight against these strangers in our midst who we welcomed and tolerated but who now wish to control us.

Radical Muslims also wish to impose their own culture on us in our own land.
The moderate Muslims are not raising their voices in our defense but are tolerating their own radicals. If this is out of fear them we will forgive them. If this is because they either do not understand Bristish culture or they considering it not worth saving, then they are guilty by association.
We welcomed and tolerated them but they are now biting the hand that fed them.

These people who mean harm to our culture consider our toleration to be a weakness.

This is a major difference between us.

Our toleration is our strength.

To our enemies, myself, Viki, Len, non mouse, etc, etc. are poles apart. They think that they can now show themselves as they really are, as we are so divided that the conquering bit is a foregone conclusion.

How wrong they are.

Viki, time to sharpen the axe. Len, sharpen your quill.
These strangers to our culture will learn what has kept us joined down the centuries and holds us together today, despite our differences.

They may then understand what a Brit is somewhat better. And why a piece of paper isn't enough.

8 June 2011 at 23:16  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Yo Owl!

9 June 2011 at 00:17  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

9 June 2011 at 00:36  
Anonymous not a machine said...

When you think about allowing sharia courts to come to think they would foster a better interpretation of justice , labour must have been absolutely mad .

9 June 2011 at 00:45  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Baroness Cox is a trouble maker.
Her efforts to perpetuate conflict in Burma will not go unnoticed.
Outsiders who promote separatism are not welcome.

9 June 2011 at 05:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking: "Yeah, they're great. I love their idolatry, the sword waving, theatre smashing, rights demanding little scamps"

Aren't you talking about Sikhs there? Some Sikhs, more to the point.

Who owns British culture? Me? You? The majority? People with white skin? The intelligentsia? The readers of the Daily Mail? Or perhaps nobody? Someone with white skin aged 30 whose family goes back seven generations might think they own it but on what basis?

Obviously British culture is changing all the time. We get sub-culture developing within that too. When was the last major shift in British culture? The development of the Xbox? Mrs Thatcher's radical shift away from Keynesian economics? Do the same people own the before and after versions?

Perhaps I just have to think, well believe, I own it to actually own it?

9 June 2011 at 06:31  
Anonymous Voyager said...

We have lots of those in Leicester and as a group

You must get out more. Leicester is a little place in The South...try a Big City in The North. Leicester has c. 2% Pakistanis Bradford has 21% with Frizinghall having 73%.

Only London has more. Bradford has a population twice that of Leicester

9 June 2011 at 10:19  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dreadnaught,

If you read my comments earlier (which you obviously haven't) you'll see why it makes not one bit of difference to my argument whether your theories on human migration are correct or not (and they may be).

You are going down the line of saying that, because all mankind hails from a common ancestor (I, obviously, believe that to be true: Adam), we are all related to each other in some way or another, therefore Nation States are artificial devices that don't actually exist, and anybody should be allowed to live wherever they like, in whatever numbers, regardless of the wishes of others, regardless of how uncivilised and savage their religion and culture.

Sheer madness.

9 June 2011 at 12:01  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

One of us is confusing Sikhs with Hindus. It could well be me.

My point still stands. Immigration is OK under certain circumstances. Allowing a totally distinct racial, religious and cultural group to immigrate to a point where they become dominant in any area of society is asking for trouble, and removes the need for them to assimilate (not integrate, assimilate), again asking for trouble.

I don't want to see alien religions and cultures in my own land. It is now at a point where significant tracts of my own country are no such thing, they are foreign countries.

If I wanted to experience foreign culture, I'd go on holiday.

9 June 2011 at 12:08  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

Voyager: "You must get out more. Leicester is a little place in The South...try a Big City in The North. Leicester has c. 2% Pakistanis Bradford has 21% with Frizinghall having 73%. Only London has more. Bradford has a population twice that of Leicester."

You need to read more carefully and get out more. Leicester is actually in the Midlands. We were talking about Indian Hindus. The Indian population of Leicester is 25% or so.

9 June 2011 at 12:39  
Blogger Mr Dodo said...

Red, white and blue,
What does it mean to you?
Surely you're proud, shout it aloud,
"Britons, awake!"
The empire too, we can depend on you.
Freedom remains.
These are the chains
Nothing can break.

There'll always be an England,
And England shall be free
If England means as much to you
As England means to me.

9 June 2011 at 15:31  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"I don't want to see alien religions and cultures in my own land. It is now at a point where significant tracts of my own country are no such thing, they are foreign countries."

I don't want to see Christianity (or any other religion) given State power of any sort in my own land. If I wanted that sort of thing then I'd go to somewhere where society is actually religious. I suppose we have to put up with it for the time being.

You should ditch Norway and come to live in Leicester. People are nice and friendly and there's huge diversity which you may actually find exciting when you get here. Besides, the Norwegians probably hate bloody foreigners in their country but are too polite to tell you.

9 June 2011 at 17:01  
Blogger I am Stan said...

EV said "If I wanted to experience foreign culture, I'd go on holiday."


Best stay indoors then old bean...;)

9 June 2011 at 17:17  
Anonymous Oswin said...

''If I wanted to experience foreign culture, I'd go on holiday'' - and really, that's the truth of it. We may extend that 'holiday' to include our favourite local Indian (whatever) restaurant; but that's about it.

The 'tribe' will out!

9 June 2011 at 18:19  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

Norwegians don't view English as foreign, particularly when they can speak the lingo. They are from polite though. They are incredibly outspoken. At first I thought they were simply rude, but they weren't. They call a spade a spade, and hang the consequences.

To live in Leicester would be a living hell for me. I'd either get locked up for a very long time or killed within a week.

I am Stan,

Sad that you think a good solution for those who are deeply saddened by the willful destruction of their country is for them to 'stay inside'. Out of sight, out of mind?

Fortunately, I can go out whenever I like, in perfect safety, as I had the good sense to move to a (very largely) mono-cultural country. I have a view of the Atlantic from my kitchen window, my house is in a large forest and I have 3000 ft mountains 5 minutes walk away. The local Police Station has only one cell, for a population of 7,000.

They use it as a store-room for the photocopier supplies.

9 June 2011 at 18:35  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I used to live and work in Sweden and I found the Swedes almost to a man very rude, even when one can speak a fairly good impression of their language. But they make dill flavoured crisps, which I love, so I can easily forgive them. I think living there has made me love my cultural freedom here even more and has strengthened my resolve to hold back State intrusion as much as I can.

9 June 2011 at 19:33  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

Norway hates Sweden far more than England hates France.

Bad comparison.

9 June 2011 at 20:16  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

Slightly bad taste from a Christian, I know, but the running Joke around here at Jul (Christmas) is as follows:

Q. Why wasn't Jesus born in Sweden?

A. Because God couldn't find 1 wise man there, let alone 3, and the chances of locating a virgin are slim to none.

9 June 2011 at 20:20  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

The Swedes 'hate' the Nogs too. It's a bit like England-Ireland with jokes back and forth. I wasn't really doing a comparison of anything or making a point other than to say that Nanny States are awful. My jaw dropped the first time I went into a systembolaget, and experienced my first weekend around 25th on Södermalm.

10 June 2011 at 07:11  
Blogger I am Stan said...

@EV

So you don`t even live here, you live in a wood in Norway, yet lecture others on life in the UK!

Do you see my point EV?

10 June 2011 at 08:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

Stan,

I don't live in Norway on a permanent basis, not that it is any business of yours.

I think I am entitled to bemoan the fate of my own country.

Are you a foreigner? How far back does your heritage in GB go? Because if it is not very far, I don't think you have a right to lecture the natives on what they can and can't do with regard to their own country.

Do you see my point IaS?

10 June 2011 at 13:02  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Yo EV,

No I`m not a foreigner EV, I`m a proud Brit and my heritage in GB goes back far enough for me to challenge the bemoaning of ex-pats who gripe from a distance, as so many out of touch ex-pats looking to the past through rose tinted specs seem too.

Is it envy or some kind of homesickness manifesting itself in bitterness?

No offense Ev but I wonder is your whinging out of date, one dimensional and relevant, is your spite worth consideration or even my sympathy, probably not,there`s no harm nor good done, just a benign noise.

What would Jesus say, something to do with yolks methinks ;)

10 June 2011 at 14:58  
Blogger English Viking said...

How far?

10 June 2011 at 15:43  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

You should hang around on the Telegraph pages, Viking. Whenever there's an immigration story there's always half a dozen people bemoaning it with names like Costa de Colin and Reg in Brittany. It might be a subtle joke but I don't think so. Still makes me laugh though. :)

10 June 2011 at 16:53  
Blogger I am Stan said...

"How far", closer than the far side of the North Sea.

10 June 2011 at 19:24  

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