Monday, July 25, 2011

The demonisation of the Right

Just a day after a ‘right-wing extremist’ systematically slaughtered around 100 Norwegian teenagers, Vince Cable goes on national television and denounces the ‘right-wing nutters’ in the US who don’t want to raise the debt ceiling. The ‘Tea Party’ Republicans, he says, pose a bigger threat to the world economy than any problems in the eurozone.

Just a few months ago the right-wing Freedom Association and Norris McWhirter were caricatured by the BBC as fascists and neo-Nazis, and even Margaret Thatcher’s official biographer Charles Moore now asserts that Right is wrong. International Development Minister Alan Duncan equates socially-conservative, right-wing Tories with the Taliban; the co-Chairman of the Conservative Party Baroness Warsi has had a swipe at the Right; and David Cameron isn’t averse to talking about ‘right-wing extremists’; a ‘right-wing fascist party’; ‘far right groups’ and ‘the hard right’.

The subliminal message is inescapable: ‘Left is good; Right is bad’, because right-wing beliefs breed right-wing philosophy which spawns right-wing extremism which is malignant. Ergo, those who tend towards the political Right must be subject to state surveillance.

And so we arrive at the unquestionable BBC state orthodoxy and narrative of enlightenment. It is ‘spin’, but of such an Orwellian subliminal manipulation of the vernacular that any contrary utterance strikes a chord of jarring dissonance, and the speaker or writer is cast into political, social or spiritual oblivion. Norman Tebbit, Simon Heffer, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, Daniel Hannan, Peter Hitchens, John Redwood, Melanie Phillips, The Freedom Association... These are the new ‘fascists’ of the Right; they exist at the periphery of social acceptability, while the fascistic tendencies of those left-wing groups which seek to intimidate and silence any reasoned protest against socially-liberal, ecumenical, europhiliac multiculturalism are completely ignored.

It appears now that if you believe in small state, low tax policies; are fiscally conservative; oppose on-tap abortion; support the traditional, nuclear family; seek to limit immigration; support withdrawal from the EU; advocate freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience and freedom of belief, you are without doubt a racist, bigoted zealot, and almost certainly a ‘right-wing extremist’ or a ‘right-wing nutter’.

And if it is ‘fascist’ or ‘extremist’ or ‘right-wing’ to say this, then it would appear that His Grace also needs watching. But so do the vast majority of Britons who are proud to stand up for such beliefs and advocate such policies, for there beats yet the Conservative heart of the nation.

140 Comments:

Anonymous alison said...

Excellent analysis

25 July 2011 at 09:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bang on target and it is for the rest of us to stand up and say no!

25 July 2011 at 09:19  
Blogger IdiotZoo said...

Dare I suggest that the problem may be that there are quite a few, highly vocal, 'right-wing nutters'. The tea-party movement in the US may be predominantly made up of people who are perfectly reasonable and wish to make a change to the politics of their nation. However publicly the movement has a tendency to say some astoundingly foolish things.

Could it be that it's an issue of the spokesperson.

I'm always unsettled by anyone who claims to speak for Christians. Christian Voice are one group that springs to mind. They certainly don't speak for me and I feel reinforce a view of 'religious people' that's fundamentally negative.

I feel the right, particularly in the US, has the same problem. Those who are most vocal often seem to be pursuing their own interests. This makes a lot of arguments easy to undermine, whether or not they're constructive.

25 July 2011 at 09:22  
Blogger Span Ows said...

Agree, well said. Another example is the subliminal calling of US Republicans "Christian" and "Conservative" in the same bulletin as teh Norway Massacre news.

25 July 2011 at 09:30  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Scameron not a conservative? I'm shocked...

Good post, Your Grace.

I'm a minarchist so that makes me an extremist too. Gosh, I've come over all murderously fascisty all of a sudden. Better brew me some radical Earl Grey...

25 July 2011 at 09:37  
Blogger Derek said...

Thank you Cranmer.

The Norwegian incident is a tampering with the safety valve that is blowing hard. Watch out for great amounts of concrete poured btptb to encase and contain - us. Elimination is the goal. Breivik just a programmed mind. He may have been alone, yet he was not, and is not.

25 July 2011 at 09:59  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

You omit to mention that there is, of course, no such thing as extreme left-wing and whilst it is considered appropriate for Chris Huhne to use Nazi metaphors, one never hears the media refer to the Stalinist left wing.
Personally, I can see no difference between extreme right wingers and extreme left wingers; Stalin was as evil as Hitler. So lets all start referring to "extreme left-wing" and "Stalinists" at every available opportunity.

25 July 2011 at 10:00  
Anonymous John Thomas said...

The problem with the views of the tea party movement (IdiotZoo), Sarah Palin, etc., is that ... what does the ordinary person know of them/their views (in the UK)? We only know what the (left wing) MSM tells us. I'll evaluate the views of these, myself, when, and only when, I'm hearing them speak for themselves (ie. not via the BBC, etc).

25 July 2011 at 10:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent analysis Cranmer

If you think right wing you must be a terrorist, is the new delusion.

@enochcarpenter

25 July 2011 at 10:05  
Anonymous The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

And if it is ‘fascist’ or ‘extremist’ or ‘right-wing’ to say this, then it would appear that His Grace also needs watching.

Welcome to the EUSSR!

I too have His Grace under surveillance, for he is worth watching. You Sir are a beacon of hope in our politically correct prison of despair. Your uncompromising exposure of folly and duplicity is tenacious. Your demolition of arguments that oppose truth and freedom exemplary. Your concern for the survival of our British way of life patriotic.

And so the wilfully blind illiberal cultural marxist social manipulators are unkind enough to call you names, marginalise your message and consign you to the wilderness of right-wing nuttery.
But does it matter? Its better than being ignored.

When light shines, darkness runs for cover and finds none.

25 July 2011 at 10:16  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

It is a reflection of our times that everything now has to be sensationalised to instantly grab the attention or eye of the dumbest mind instantly.

It is nothing less than an exercise cultural anesthesia by sensation seeking spin-doctors and journalists from either side of the political divide using the advertising conceit and mantra of re-branding tired out goods with glossy new colours and auto-suggestive claims.

Sad to say but I think it is being promoted in an education system that relies on passing on bite-sized-chunks of information to be regurgitated in an 'exam' culture of multiple choice, re-sit, all-inclusive assessments where every one's a winner, provided they can spell their name and tick a box.

25 July 2011 at 10:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@English Pensioner

EXACTLY RIGHT! There is a movie that keeps popping up and then being taken down again on the Web called, "The Soviet Story" It is a stunning documentary that makes your point perfectly. Search for it on Google. It is a harrowing watch but it explains very well that extreme right and left are virtually the same ideology wearing different pants.

25 July 2011 at 10:20  
Anonymous DanJ0 said...

"So lets all start referring to "extreme left-wing" and "Stalinists" at every available opportunity."

Calling a JS Mill type liberal a cultural Marxist, absolute Hegelian, traitor, left-wing, left-ist, and so on is a pretty good start along that road.

25 July 2011 at 10:27  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

This mantra isn't new, it has been an underlying theme of all socialist propaganda for the last sixty years. The difference is they now feel they can say it publicly.

The mere fact that anything to the Right of Centre is now immediately Labelled "Neo-Nazi" or "Fascist" tells you that the propaganda campaign is successful. Orwell's 1984 was prophetic and Goebels must be really proud.

His dictum: "tell a lie big enough and often enough and it becomes the new truth."

Ironic I suppose that the Left should adopt a policy and practice from someone they purport to despise.

25 July 2011 at 10:31  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

As I said on Saturday in my comment on the sad events in Norway, political manoeuvrings would commence.
Unfortunately, that disturbed mass murderer has played right into the hands of the multiculti mass immigration EU loving Left as any dissent will now be clamped down on even more.

Whether anyone or organisation was pulling Anders strings is a question that will probably never be correctly answered.

The time though for all of these matters to be discussed should really be after the dead have been laid to rest.

25 July 2011 at 10:49  
Anonymous Thought Crime Central said...

The Norwegian shooter will become the symbolic strawman of all that is now to be completely forbidden in a new security clampdown - Christianity, right-wing views, Islamophobia, patriotism, blogging, free-speech, unauthorised thought-processes etc etc

25 July 2011 at 10:57  
Anonymous tony b said...

Was this man a right wing extremist, or wasn't he? It seems you lot are keen to blame leftists and Islam for all the worlds ills, rather than consider for one moment that you might be even slightly wrong. Pathetic.

25 July 2011 at 11:01  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Bring the 'F.Right' in by implementing Carswell's and Hannan's power to recall MPs.

25 July 2011 at 11:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Tony b. AFAIk he was anti-BNP, pro-gay and pro-Israeli. Make of that what you will.

Damo

25 July 2011 at 11:09  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Was this man a right wing extremist, or wasn't he?

Does it really matter to you Mr b?

25 July 2011 at 11:10  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

The Left believes it is good because it sees itself as working towards a better, fairer, equal world, where all races and religions will live in… well… perfect harmony:

They’d like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow-white turtle doves

They’d like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
They’d like to hold it in their arms
And keep it company
They’d like to see the world for once
All standing hand in hand
And hear them echo through the hills
For peace throughout the land.


The Right, being pragmatic, knows that human nature, with its greed and selfishness, makes Utopia unachievable and that Man’s efforts are best directed towards nothing more inspiring than making the best of a bad job. But, try making a catchy song out of that.

25 July 2011 at 11:17  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Johnny R. I think you have it nailed.

25 July 2011 at 11:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With the decline in teaching of history over recent decades it would be surprising if more than a small percentage of the population understood why the Tea Party is so called in the first place.

It was interesting to see the Norwegian in Freemason's regalia.

25 July 2011 at 11:39  
Blogger Bil said...

Johnny R, said exactly the same thing to my son on the way to work. What socialism constantly ignores is that life is not fair. Human nature includes greed, inbred for millennia. It's evolution speaking. It's that way for a reason.

25 July 2011 at 11:47  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

Now you know how the Muslim's feel. You’re being tarred by the actions of a number of dangerous extremists in your ranks.

Unfortunately you’re making the same mistake as the Muslims: not accepting the criticism and making good. “Islam is a peaceful religion abused by a minority of fanatics” only works if Muslims take steps to disassociate themselves from those fanatics and their co-religionists who support them. “The right is a respectable position some of whose aims are distorted and abused by nutters” will only work when you take steps to disassociate yourselves from your nutters.

This you’re not going to do by whining. You’re going to do it by recognising your extremists and removing them from your movement. That’s what “the Left” needed to do with Militant: expel it. You have your militant tendency, as does Islam, as did Labour.

If you want others to take you seriously you need to deal with that.

An alternative way out for Muslims, (if they’re in the right country), is to dump Islam itself. Find another way that has their core values but doesn’t associate with dangerous nutters.

You could do the same. You, helpfully, list your core values:

“It appears now that if you believe in small state, low tax policies; are fiscally conservative; oppose on-tap abortion; support the traditional, nuclear family; seek to limit immigration; support withdrawal from the EU; advocate freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience and freedom of belief, you are without doubt a racist, bigoted zealot, and almost certainly a ‘right-wing extremist’ or a ‘right-wing nutter’”


Other than withdraw from the EU, obviously, that’s Orange Book Liberalism.

Come to the darkside, your Grace. https://www.libdems.org.uk/join_us.aspx

25 July 2011 at 11:49  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Mrs Gnostic and Bil—Last year, James Delingpole quoted de Tocqueville’s warning that the pursuit of equality would lead to despotism:

❛The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.❜

25 July 2011 at 11:56  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Your Grace, the Leftist consensus must now be more than usually terrified of focus groups. A large part of Breivik's narrative is something that you will hear in any pub. In short, whilst Breivik's actions are those of the criminally insane, his message is close to that of the common man anywhere in Western Europe. Indeed, not much different from the message of Merkel, Cameron and Sarkozy - multiculturalism has failed, utterly. It goes without saying that these comments by European leaders would not have had the slightest influence on Breivik's state of mind.


The words of communicant Mr Graham Davis earlier today in reply to another post seem particularly apt:

'The only solution to this problem is for a national debate to take place and for the view that immigration is destabilising and should be halted be aired without the cry of “racist” being allowed to shout it down. It is not racist to want a cohesive society or even to hark back to a time when a monocultural society was the norm. Multiculturalism is an experiment that has failed because it did not make the desire to integrate and the adoption our values (and language) a prerequisite for all immigrants.'

25 July 2011 09:29

But will the political elite listen? And having listened, will the political elite do what the people want? Or will it be more of the same until the European population is a minority in Europe, the efforts of Breivik's immitators notwithstanding?

25 July 2011 at 12:02  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

"The subliminal message is inescapable: ‘Left is good; Right is bad’, because right-wing beliefs breed right-wing philosophy which spawns right-wing extremism which is malignant. Ergo, those who tend towards the political Right must be subject to state surveillance."

I little bit overboard if you don't mind my saying so.

Extremism of any sort is unacceptable. The type of extremism that sees the end justifying the means. The type of extremism that supports bigotry, hatred and direct action against one's 'foe'.

'Left' and 'Right' are still okay. There is of course a questioning going on about the sustainability of illiberal capitalism now it is running rampant and the 'profit motive' is sheer greed. There is also a debate underway about life styles and values within a secular society.

Yes, the secularists and the critics of capitalism are having their day in the sun - for the moment. Tom say there is an Orwellian subliminal manipulation taking place is, I think, just a little bit 'extreme' and a little bit too 'right' of centre!

25 July 2011 at 12:03  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

On coming to the darkside, I have a rather natty pair of EU cufflinks:

http://amzn.to/oTARC3

You could, ceremonially, put them on whilst buying your first Lib Dem raffle ticket.

25 July 2011 at 12:05  
Anonymous Preacher said...

Excellent post your Grace.
Has anyone considered that the issue may not be a political one, but a spiritual one?.
Maybe it matters little to Satan which hat you wear, as long as he can use it to stifle & pour scorn on the gospel.
Tactically an excellent move. But I would suggest that a lot depends on our response.

25 July 2011 at 12:46  
Anonymous Kiwi said...

Derek @ 09.59 says, "Watch out for great amounts of concrete poured btptb to encase and contain...."
It's already started. There have been calls for a media blackout of the trial so as not to give Mr Breivik a platform for his views. "The hearing of Anders Behring Breivik, who admits carrying out Friday's deadly attacks in Norway, will be held behind closed doors." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
Let's hear what Breivik has to say, rightly or wrongly, we need to know the motives that drove a cold-hearted killer to commit this terrible atrocity.

25 July 2011 at 12:50  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

Spot on Cranmer.

If you haven't been called an intolerant, homophobic, islamaphobic, hateful, god-bothering, extremist bigot then you seriously ought to consider your salvation & your politics

25 July 2011 at 12:55  
Anonymous Tony B said...

>Does it really matter to you Mr b?
It seems to matter an awful lot to some people that he wasn't.

25 July 2011 at 12:58  
Anonymous FrankS said...

Right wing, left wing - I find it puzzling why the various ideas clustered around each label should necessarily belong together.
There is no obvious reason why you can't share most of the beliefs normally regarded as left wing and still wish to preserve your country's native culture.
Enoch Powell, remember, had a strong appeal to working class people who would be considered natural Labour - and therefore left-wing – voters.
This notion that all ideas must tend towards one end or the other of a one dimensional tramline has the power to inhibit thought, with the widespread perception that all the "bad" ideas belong at the right wing.
By the way, what wing were, for instance, the 7/7 bombers? I don't recall it being mentioned.

25 July 2011 at 13:15  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo said,

'Extremism of any sort is unacceptable'.

You're extremely stupid, irritating, ill-informed, banal, inane, absurd and insipid.

Guess you're unacceptable, too.

PS I'm a right-wing extremist.

25 July 2011 at 13:23  
Anonymous tony b said...

FrankS
There are working class Tories. Lots of them.

25 July 2011 at 13:24  
Blogger English Viking said...

Rebel Saint,

Spot on.

If they hated the master, what will they do to the followers?

If people are not offended by one's Christianity, you ain't doin' it right.

25 July 2011 at 13:26  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

An alternative way out for Muslims, (if they’re in the right country), is to dump Islam itself.

They have that choice anywhere outside of their own countries, especially here in the UK - but they haven't have they?

Tony Lloyd is talking absolute Islamapologist bull-shit, if he thinks that the actions of this man is comparable to the amount of mayhem in the world directly attributable to political Islam.

I can't recall seeing one report, comment or opinion`anywhere that doesn't condemn him and his actions outright. He hasn't come from any established or unified body of supporters or financial backers - he represents absolutely no one but himself.

If only Muslims around the world were as quick to condemn or take to the streets in protest at the misrepresentation of their 'faith' they may have some credibility.

Instead, they follow the vow of silence demanded by their clerics and wider Ummah, that either actively, tacitly or at least turn blind eyes, to their own 'misunderstanders' of that insidious Cult.

25 July 2011 at 13:33  
Blogger Jim McLean at Acoustic Village said...

Sky news had an interview with someone - no doubt an "expert" who stated that UK is in danger of Far Right extremism. He named the EDL...he said that although the EDL would vehemently deny they were far right, it is clear that they are against "Islamist" groups.

Elsewhere, the BBC Front Page describes the Norwegian responsible for the recent attacker as "Far Right" - providing as evidence claims that in one of his web sites he expresses the view that Islam is trying to colonise the west.

By both these descriptions of what it takes to be "Far Right" these days, I would bet 80% of UK would be given such a label!

25 July 2011 at 13:36  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

@Dreadnaught

I fail to see how suggesting that Muslims should drop Islam is, in any way, "islamapologist".

"but they haven't have they?"

No, they haven't. They have neither
(1) dealt with the extremists nor
(2) left the religion.

Rather the point of my whole post. Explain that benign Islam has failed to deal with malign Islam in order to compare it to the benign Right's failure to deal with the malign Right.

Together with a suggestion that, were his Grace to convert to being a lunatic Euro-phile like me, he would find his core values reflected here:

https://www.libdems.org.uk/join_us.aspx

25 July 2011 at 14:04  
Blogger English Viking said...

Tony,

'Benign Islam' is an oxymoron.

25 July 2011 at 14:11  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

English Viking:

"'Benign Islam' is an oxymoron."

There you go your Grace.

Before you crack on as to how we're all demonising you for being bigots why not deal with the bigots who are part of "you".

25 July 2011 at 14:19  
Anonymous The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Norway is an open society except when it is closed? That would be disappointingly Orwellian. Conducting court proceedings in secret is a Stalinist reflex. In an increasingly relativist society anyone who is not Politically Correct has to be denied a platform otherwise they may say something that turns out to be embarrassingly true. How different was the approach at the Nuremberg trials. They were open. They were filmed. When Goering started to use the proceedings to present a robust defence of Nazi ideology did they panic and lock the doors? No. They fired the prosecutor and got a new one who demolished Goering's argument by a forensic and devastating line of questioning about the final solution.

They are too late to silence Breivik anyway. His manifesto and accompanying video went global on the internet and they couldn't react quickly enough to get the material taken down. If the whole trial is held behind closed doors people will begin to wonder what the authorities are afraid of and why. The problem for the ruling elites is that his assessment of the deconstruction of western society, multiculturalism, EU expansionism and Islamic colonisation are not too wide of the mark.

25 July 2011 at 14:24  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Tony Lloyd (14:04)—benign Islam has failed to deal with malign Islam

Even the most malign manifestations of Islam can be supported by quotations from the Qur’an and the life of the Prophet. The Qur’an contains over a hundred verses commanding the use of violence, and, as those verses are the perfect and immutable word of Allah, they cannot be rejected or the faith crumbles to dust.

The idea of benign and malign versions of Islam was scorned by the Turkish Prime Minister:

Speaking at Kanal D TV’s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term ‘moderate Islam’, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, ‘These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.’

25 July 2011 at 14:29  
Blogger Span Ows said...

Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

@Tony lloyd

English Viking: "'Benign Islam' is an oxymoron."

There you go your Grace. Before you crack on as to how we're all demonising you for being bigots why not deal with the bigots who are part of "you".


I suggest you have a word with ANY Muslim who will no doubt confirm what EV has written: there is no benign Islam.

P.S. We are all bigots, you are demonstrating your own right here on this comment thread.

25 July 2011 at 14:36  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Tony Lloyd @ 14:19

There may be any amount of 'benign' muslims, as individuals; but there is NO ''benign Islam'' : read their, and their prophet's words; take them at their, and Mohammed's word. It's : is or ain't. Neither you, or they, can have both.

25 July 2011 at 14:44  
Anonymous Old Blue Eyes said...

Hear, Hear.

25 July 2011 at 14:49  
Blogger Owl said...

YG I doff my hat once again. A brilliant article.

Of course our left leaning colleagues will try to contaminate everyone to the right of Stalin with the stench of association to this atrocity.

It is just the way their sick minds work.

Notice that any opposition to Islamic immigration automatically stamps one now as "far right", if the MSM can be believed.

The Norwegian government has made an incredible balls up in making this a closed trial.

Nobody is now going to believe anything that comes out via our trusty MSM.

I do believe that our socialist masters have shot themselves in the foot with this one. Their rampant attacks on any sort of common sense is not being taken well at all by the average Joe Public.

To say that they have lost touch with their audience is putting it very mildly.

Keep up the excellent work, you are obviously in good company.

25 July 2011 at 14:57  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Your Grace,

I agree with the thrust of your analysis, in that some in the liberal- left -london based elite are keen to portray Christians as 'right wing' and ergo 'right wing' becomes 'the extreme right' which is seem as evil and nasty, akin to the third reich.

Which is of course utter tommy rot, given that neither political parties, politics, theology or philosophy are set in stone or monolithic- especially true of the UK conservative party.

To be Christian does not imply that you must be a fully paid member of a conservative party , or to be a conservative that you must be a christian.

This is like suggesting that all left wingers are followers of Mao or Stalin and are all atheists; clearly incorrect because Christians belong to both centre-left and centre-right parties in the US, Europe and the UK.

What worries me is the attempts to shut down politics/debate with the accusations of being 'far right' (although the term 'bigot' is the more common one) when as your Grace says a person is euro-skeptic, pro-family, anti-abortion etc.

25 July 2011 at 15:00  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Tony Lloyd,

Why don't you grow up, or frequent a blog more conducive to your own shallow and narrow opinion where no-one can offend your hyper-sensibilities in the excercise of free speech?

None of those who post upon this blog are 'part of' His Grace, any more than the junk email you receive or the sex-obsessed pop-ups which plague your internet browsing are 'a part' of you. Read His Grace's bottom line. If it is not to your liking, please go to CommentIsFree.

25 July 2011 at 15:00  
Blogger D. Singh said...

What was the motivation of B?

His beliefs coincide with the beliefs of millions – including mainstream journalists.

But what tipped him over the edge?

Frustration.

He realised that the millions of people who believe what he does are effectively disenfranchised and silenced.

By whom (or by what)?

The imposition of socialist values in politics, the MSM and legislation.

How can we in Britain install a ‘safety-valve’?

By establishing a power of the electorate to recall MPs and trigger by-elections. That would mean in practise that all members of the community have a chance to hear each other and engage in the political process – rather than being silenced and disenfranchised for five years. It would also mean that MPs remain responsive to their local electorates.

That would not be popular with MPs as they would realise they are accountable to the people who elect them.

25 July 2011 at 15:09  
Blogger English Viking said...

I looked up the word 'bigot' in the dictionary, and it said 'Tony'.

C'mon Tony, you can do better than that. The (over)use of the word bigot, like racist, has weakened its meaning to the point where it is no longer worthwhile using it.

With regard to 'benign' Islam, as other have pointed out, koranic Islam is all there is, and that is most certainly not benign.

If you mean those muslims that don't really care about all that religion stuff, cultural muslims, if you like, the one's you vainly imagine have not got a spiteful bone in their body, they do, kind of, exist in the West. I would more accurately describe them as ambivalent toward Westerners, their countries, laws and values. And the day is rapidly approaching when these ambivalent muslims will be forced to make a choice; accept the so called 'true faith' of Islam, in all it's entirety, rejecting the kuffar and his devilish ways, or face being branded an apostate, with the mandatory death-sentence that comes with it from a sharia court.

In the meantime, you can sit around with your head up your backside, wanting to buy the world a Coke, stirring only occasionally from your slumber to shout 'bigot' at random passers-by, as we as a nation plunge headlong into oblivion, and those who warn of the danger are ostracised as 'right-wing loons'.

Sweet dreams.

25 July 2011 at 15:14  
Anonymous Philip said...

"Today", the BBC's morning lib-left propaganda vehicle, had an interview this morning with two academics suggesting it was anti-multiculturalist views that lead to the risk of tragedies such as Norway's. So in BBC-land, it's those (and it's a lot of us, including David Cameron, I recall) who question the policy of multiculturalism who are to blame, rather than Breivik who actually took the decision to commit mass-murder. This tragedy gives the BBC, and presumably the rest of the left-wing media, the opportunity to peddle its values of blaming society rather than the individual who takes the decision to carry out a crime, and to conflate ordinary conservative or "right-wing" values with "far right extremism". The BBC has also seemed to be quite keen to play up that Breivik claimed to be a "Christian" and "conservative" (cp and contrast when it was first thought the atrocities were linked to Islamism, when the terms were merely "home-grown terrorism" or "international terrorism"), no doubt to create in viewers’ minds an association of Christianity with far-right violent extremism.

25 July 2011 at 15:19  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

@Archbish

Oh yes, the old "you criticised so you're trying to stop free speech" canard. No, I'm expressing an opinion myself. In my opinion "benign islam is an oxymoron" is bigoted and I'm expressing that opinion.

You also seem to be pushing the idea that a "discussion" is a load of people finding ways to agree with each other.

Look: I'm a liberal lefty. You have a problem with liberal lefties thinking that you are "a racist, bigoted zealot, and almost certainly a ‘right-wing extremist’ or a ‘right-wing nutter'" I, genuinely, sympathise with decent people who are demonised because of others associated with them. No, they are not part of your blog, just as Melanie Philips holds no position in the Conservative Party. But they are what “we” (the non-right wing) see held up to us as “the right”.

I have offered you advice, as a liberal lefty, on how to get liberal lefties, like me, to see decent right wingers as decent. (With silly asides about EU cufflinks). It may not be good advice, if you don’t think it is good advice then don’t take it. I shall take yours and frequent blogs that, although not necessarily “conducive” to my opinion value the exchange of ideas.

25 July 2011 at 15:23  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Tony Lloyd,

You now fabricate an offence and obscure the argument.

His Grace's point of contention was clearly with your assertion that all who post upon this blog are 'part of' His Grace, and you specified those who may believe 'Benign Islam is an oxymoron'.

Yet now you say: "No, they are not part of your blog...", which His Grace takes as a complete retraction. Liberal lefties are welcome here, for Jesus would have broken bread with you and so will His Grace.

25 July 2011 at 15:32  
Blogger Owl said...

Bloody 'ell, if that Tony is an example of the enlightened left then we, and the world, have a big problem!

25 July 2011 at 15:37  
Blogger English Viking said...

Tony,

I'm a bigot because I disagree with you?

You come to this decision after having a five-word statement directed toward yourself from myself, the sum total of all communication between ourselves, up to that point.

But you 'genuinely sympathise with decent people who are demonised by...'

Yeah, right.

25 July 2011 at 15:52  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Tony Lloyd said : 'I have offered you advice, as a liberal lefty, on how to get liberal lefties, like me, to see decent right wingers as decent.'

The advise being 'become a liberal democrat' [and thus not be right wing anymore?] Strange argument. It would appear to me to be better to at least have respect for an opponent's view rather than suggesting your view is the only view and that is the only way you will see anyone else's view as 'decent', ergo everyone else is a 'bigot'.

25 July 2011 at 16:00  
Anonymous Delroy Darling said...

Bigot :

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Does this describe Tony Lloyd or English Viking?

25 July 2011 at 16:08  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking said...
"Dodo said,
'Extremism of any sort is unacceptable'.
You're extremely stupid, irritating, ill-informed, banal, inane, absurd and insipid.
Guess you're unacceptable, too.
PS I'm a right-wing extremist."

Do read the post before you reply with your standard abuse. I gave a particular meaning to 'extremism'.

"Extremism of any sort is unacceptable. The type of extremism that sees the end justifying the means. The type of extremism that supports bigotry, hatred and direct action against one's 'foe'."

Are you advocating any or all of the above Viki?

25 July 2011 at 16:25  
Blogger English Viking said...

Delroy,

According to that definition, it applies to me, with one exception;

I tolerate others opinion. Say what you like, believe what you want, think thoughts I find abhorrent.

It's when the above becomes law that I get pissy.

25 July 2011 at 16:26  
Blogger Tony Lloyd said...

(Your post seems to invite a repsonse, so I'll postpone taking your advice)

Absolutely I retract any implication that all (or any, other than Your Grace) who post on this blog are "part of". And apologise for the impression given.

The "you" I intended was the "right wing" writ large, the monolithic other, the "them" that is presented, the label.

Right-wingers (and Muslims, and Liberals, and Socialists, and Football supporters) get presented and represented as "right-wingers" (and Muslims ....). All these nutters that I see get presented to me as right wingers. That’s why the right wing (ie “you”) gets demonised: because there are demons out there and when we see them they have right wing (“you”, in inverted commas) stamped on them.

Ok the EU cufflink cracks were silly (not totally childish, though. A bit of lightheartedeness never hurt anyone) but the Orange Book Liberal comments were serious. There is a faction of a major political party that is not associated with various unsavoury types that seeks:

low tax policies; are fiscally conservative; oppose on-tap abortion; support the traditional, nuclear family; seek to limit immigration; [remove EU withdrawl bit]; advocate(s) freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience and freedom of belief.

(And those EU cufflinks are nice)

25 July 2011 at 16:30  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

Was the 'bigotry, hatred and direct action against one's foe' that we saw Tommy carry out against the Boche extremism? What about when Leopold I's (the Holy Roman Emperor, no less) deputy turned back the Ottoman hordes at the gates of Vienna, thus saving Christendom from the hell of islamic occupation?

If so then yes, I support some forms of extremism, according to the definition you afford it. If not, then how can be an extremist if the above is not extreme?

25 July 2011 at 16:36  
Anonymous Homo Hamed said...

"And if it is ‘fascist’ or ‘extremist’ or ‘right-wing’ to say this, then it would appear that His Grace also needs watching."

You can be certain that the government will take this golden opportunity to increase surveillance and tighten laws restricting freedom of speech and association for millions of British people.

Meanwhile - naturally - the British people will be increasingly radicalised simply because, as over the last 50 years, they simply are not being listened to.

I can foresee a day when it will not be loners like Breivik that the government needs to be frightened of but perhaps millions across the EU who will snap and weed out the treacherous and unrepresentative liberal elite for good.

What goes around, comes around. The pendulum will swing - and the present establishment will be responsible for any overreaction that takes place.

Just look at our history.

25 July 2011 at 16:36  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Marxist youth encampment, plotting the demographic eradication of the Nordic folk, got massacred.

Case closed.

25 July 2011 at 17:04  
Anonymous Tony B said...

they were plotting their own eradication were they? oh dear, looks like it happened sooner than they expected. Either that, or you're talking shite. I know where my money's going.

25 July 2011 at 17:07  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

There's something of Alice Through The Looking Glass about all this.

25 July 2011 at 17:13  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I know where your moneys going aswell Tony B and that place definitaly smells like shite.

Yes, Nordic Marxists plotting the demographic eradication of their own.

Keep your money because I don't take any of your shite.

25 July 2011 at 17:27  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"You can be certain that the government will take this golden opportunity to increase surveillance and tighten laws restricting freedom of speech and association for millions of British people."

I'm not so sure about that. It depends whether the authoritarian wing or the liberal wing of the tories is ascendent. With the libdems on board, I reckon it'll be difficult to sacrifice civil liberties for the illusion of security, especially after New Labour's all out assault on them during its tenure and the subsequent electioneering against that.

25 July 2011 at 17:28  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Was that irony there using the term Marxist given the article contents?

25 July 2011 at 17:30  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

It's not extremism, defend oneself through legitimate means against an enemy threatening you with physical violence. That's basic moral theology!

There's a difference between extreme but legitimate action, war, and the action of individuals or States based on bigotry i.e. "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

The key to it is partiality and intolerance leading to hatred. Examples: Jews in Germany, Muslims in the West, Islamists, Protestants of Catholics, Catholics of Protestants - the list goes on.

25 July 2011 at 17:33  
Anonymous Tony B said...

> I don't take any of your shite

of course not. You've got plenty of your own.

25 July 2011 at 18:01  
Blogger Chalmers said...

To be fair to Charles Moore he was agreeing in his Telegraph article with the Left on the specific issue of its suspicion of the intentions of big business, but still expressed his disagreement with the Left on the big state. It seems to me that conservatives should be as as suspicious of big business as of the big state since our fallen human nature corrupts both.

25 July 2011 at 18:05  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I just cannot see anything wrong with preferring to spend one's time with those of one's own culture, race, religion, creed, etc.

You are correct, the list of those oppressed for lunatic reasons goes on and on; BNP supporters, Daily Mail readers, Tea-baggers, nationalists, Christians, et al.

25 July 2011 at 18:12  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

The Guardian knows how to wipe out the enemies of progressive multiculturalism:

❛Breivik must willingly have allowed himself to be brainwashed by Islamophobic and extreme rightwing websites. However, had he instead been forced to receive his information through a broadsheet newspaper, where not all the stories dealt with Europe’s loss of confidence and the rise of militant Islam, it is conceivable that his world would have looked slightly different.❜

25 July 2011 at 18:14  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Can anyone confirm the rape statistics for Oslo?
I am seeing a report that claims that 63% of rapes involve "Middle Eastern Men". However, they constitute only!! 24% of the population.
Just wondering.

25 July 2011 at 18:46  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

There is a pervading media line that all things multicultural are good ... and to go against the grain exposes those who disagree to be labelled as reactionary right-wing racists (as adeptly demonstrated by Mr Lloyd)

Multiculturalism is an invention of the Left and more especially the European Left, that seeks to shape public opinion through the media channels and conducted in Brussels Eurospeak. It is no more natural or just than it is unnatural or unjust to seek to maintain one's own national identity and values within one's homeland.

The UK had a cultural identity wrought by centuries of slow social change and a growing sense of inclusiveness and growth of opportunities for personal development and advancement like in no other time in our history.

The EU is the antithesis to this in as much as it seeks to dismantle nations and cultures that have taken hundreds of years to develop but fails acknowledge that nations are nothing more than people with a shared identity, common language and culture. Yet, they were only too ready to condemn Serbia as a nation, while at the same time supporting the establishment of an embrionic Islamic Nation State within it's borders.

I would suggest Mr Lloyd considers, before he asserts the potential to discomfort Musilms by being white skinned and proud of my roots that he gives the same degree of concern and consideration to the discomfort of those whom for generations, were born here; whose ancestors fought and died here and abroad, and who now feel thmeslves like strangers in a strange land.

Muslims and people of other faiths (who have yet to blow up our trains and buses) have been welcomed, protected and allowed to settle here for centuries. In return they were expected by ordinary people at least, to learn our language, and assimilate without recourse to appeals for special treatment - Multiculturalism put an end to that aspiration.

Concepts such Assimilation and Patriotism are now seen by those on the Left as just as 'offensive' as the Orwellian nonsense they call 'Islamophobia' and are being inculcated in to the minds of the young.

That we in the UK still welcome and accommodate legitimate migrants and genuine asylum seekers is a given; but never was it intended or even perceived to be intended, as to be the as the catalyst for high-speed, unwanted, irreversible demographic and cultural change as now is taking place.

If this view makes me a racist in some one's opinion - that's their problem; but I say they are wrong and can't or won't see the bigger picture. It matters nothing to me - as far as I am concerned I know that I am not. It's the unborn generations that I shed a my tears for.

25 July 2011 at 18:52  
Blogger English Viking said...

Ian Cad,

I'm afraid your figures are incorrect. They are too low.

EVERY stranger rape in Oslo in last year, and over 85% in the last 5 years, where the attacker was identified, was by a 'middle-Easterner' against a white woman, usually a Norwegian youth.

norwegian.http://tundratabloids.com/2011/05/20549.html

Shhh! You're not allowed to mention it. I did once, but I think I got away with it.

NB CAUTION REQUIRED. Clicking the link and acknowledging the truth could lead to becoming a far right extremist.

25 July 2011 at 19:13  
Anonymous Bede said...

In the last century there have been three main organizations or movements (as opposed to deranged individuals or ultra nationalists) who have been responsible for mass killings: Communism, Nazism (or fascism) and Islamism. They have different ideologies, but the results of their activities are very similar.

Deranged or just evil individuals may operate on their own, or may be attracted by one of the above movements; which one is often immaterial. Nazi prison guards in East Germany at the end of the war moved quickly to become communist prison guards. Ultra nationalists may combine their fanaticism with any of the three.

The strange thing is that only the nazi (or 'right wing') category is routinely lambasted by our liberal media. There are aging academics and intellectuals who still mourn the passing of Uncle Joe Stalin and Lavrenty Beria. And of course if Islamists massacre people in the USA, Madrid, London, India, Bali and Kenya it must be the way they have been treated by the rest of the world, especially the West.

It is only nazism that has been (largely) extirpated in the West; but not entirely, as the tragic events in Oslo show. The other two continue to grow in strength (communism under various guises, involving the destruction of Christianity, the family and traditional morality - the liberal agenda). Their success has led to the growth of nazism (and ultra nationalism); this is brainless - no fanaticism is an antidote to another.

We live in interesting times. All three movements will result in baleful, murderous consequences if allowed to succeed.

25 July 2011 at 19:16  
Blogger English Viking said...

PS Correction to the above,

Every, yes 100% of stranger rapes in Oslo over the last 5 years were by 'middle-Easterners' on white girls.

Every last single one.

And I'm a racist?

25 July 2011 at 19:19  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

English Viking,

Your link is a dud. Here's one from Atlas Shrugged:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/norway-all-rapes-in-past-5-years-committed-by-muslimsnon-western-immigrants.html

The source may be partisan, but the core info is from seemingly credible Norwegian sources.

25 July 2011 at 19:42  
Blogger robertatforsythe said...

Cranmer wrote: It appears now that if you believe in small state, etc etc the rest of the paragraph.
ERGO I am a right wing nutter. How sad. And I am not even a member of the Conservative party (any party for that matter). On a different tack I hope that somewhere Cranmer will offer us thoughts on the withdrawal of the Papal nuncio from Dublin.

25 July 2011 at 19:53  
Blogger English Viking said...

Avi,

I do beg your pardon, try this:

The truth about rape in Oslo

This is one of the top coppers in Norway in press conference. Not partial, just truthful.


PS The translation is accurate, as much as it could be into English.

25 July 2011 at 19:59  
Anonymous MrJ said...

"...if it is ‘fascist’ or ‘extremist’ or ‘right-wing’ to say this, then it would appear that His Grace also needs watching. But so do the vast majority of Britons..."

Some (but not all) of those who use "right-wing extremist" as a partisan slogan to demonise others are cunning, but they may be not cunning enough to know that they are playing with something which has the destructive power of fire.

Agree with Mr bluedog: "...whilst Breivik's actions are those of the criminally insane, his message is close to that of the common man anywhere in Western Europe. Indeed, not much different from the message of Merkel, Cameron and Sarkozy - multiculturalism has failed, utterly. It goes without saying that these comments by European leaders would not have had the slightest influence on Breivik's state of mind."

Could hardly believe JR's quote was real, but there it is on the linked page, author: Thomas Hylland Eriksen "an anthropologist based at the department of social anthropology, University of Oslo, Norway".

He seems to be well enough versed in this topic to be competent to produce a report on the BBC's objectivity about AGW (sometimes known as "climate change").

25 July 2011 at 20:06  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Bede said...25 July 2011 19:16

What a damn good comment!

Christs message of non-violence has to be the height of spiritual strenghts, ahimsa, as the Hindu calls it.

But it cannot be taken as a message of appeasement in the face of non-spiritual, Godless ideologies.

Defence of ones own is not an ideology, it is natural, it requires propoganda and indoctrination to convince any youth to go against the grain.

This youth camp was an operation in the psychological abuse of young minds.

Lets not forget that, if we are to move forwards and seek peaceful solutions to our present predicament.

25 July 2011 at 20:10  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

So, what's the answer in the UK now that ~15% of our population is not 'white British'? It's all very well bemoaning the effects of multiculturalism but what actions should be taken? That's what is probably going to indicate whether someone is actually extreme right-wing rather than just a Tory with the attributes in the blog article.

25 July 2011 at 20:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"This youth camp was an operation in the psychological abuse of young minds."

Like Sunday school, or faith schools, or even the Scouts then.

25 July 2011 at 20:22  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

A Norwegian MP, Christian Tybring-Gjedde, outlines how Oslo has been affected by immigration in this video. Click ‘Show more’ to read his speech.

25 July 2011 at 20:28  
Blogger English Viking said...

BITB,

You are completely and utterly wrong.

The camp was rather like the office 'piss-up' at Christmas; absolutely nothing to do with work, absolutely nothing to do with politics.

Just kids, enjoying a BBQ, canoeing, laughing and joking with their mates, etc.

I am regularly described as a Nazi, extreme right-wing, etc, etc. These things I may or may not be, but I distinctly remember voting Labour on the first occasion I was legally allowed to vote (much to my now chagrin).

These kids didn't know their head from their elbow with regard to politics, and with experience, I dare say a fair few would reject their state indoctrination.

I know so, because I live here, and a previous teacher of my own children lost a prospective daughter-in-law in the outrage. Those in my own village were also shot at, surviving only by the grace of God.

25 July 2011 at 20:28  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking: "The truth about rape in Oslo [link]"

I'm amused by the comment from 'Paula':

"Castrate them if they’re found. Problem: they can’t find them. Because they look so much alike.?"

If we're to go back to the 1970s where people were bewildered by 'darkies' looking the same ie. in possession of dark skin and black hair, then I'm damned if I'm going to wear 'Birmingham Bags' this time around. :O

25 July 2011 at 20:29  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking: "The camp was rather like the office 'piss-up' at Christmas; absolutely nothing to do with work, absolutely nothing to do with politics."

Oh come on, we all know the truth. They were proto-Marxists working through Das Kapital around a camp fire.

25 July 2011 at 20:33  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

Thanks, E.V.

Trauma and living on the edge of society lead gentlemen to prefer blondes, it seems. But who are we to criticise others' courtship rituals? Funny commentary from the copess, funny in a sad way, of course.

25 July 2011 at 20:34  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

I expected better from you.

Still, I'm accustomed to disappointments.

25 July 2011 at 20:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"I expected better from you."

Which comment?

25 July 2011 at 20:58  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

"20:29 and 20:33.

25 July 2011 at 21:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony Lloyd said :

"Right-wingers (and Muslims, and Liberals, and Socialists, and Football supporters) get presented and represented as "right-wingers" (and Muslims ....). All these nutters that I see get presented to me as right wingers. That’s why the right wing (ie “you”) gets demonised: because there are demons out there and when we see them they have right wing (“you”, in inverted commas) stamped on them."

Can Tony or anyone else please re-do this hopefully in proper English as I'm thinking 'WTF' does that actually mean?

25 July 2011 at 21:27  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking. Ah, that's just dry, or wry, humour. I'm in a strange mood at the moment. It's like everyone has suddenly become a conspiracy theory loony and I'm finding it a bit disturbing to be honest.

25 July 2011 at 21:32  
Anonymous Petronius said...

Johnny R (comment d. 25 Jul, 18:14) - Thomas Eriksen's Guardian article leaves one in no doubt whatsoever as to his true agenda:
"...had he instead been FORCED to receive his information through a broadsheet newspaper..." (such as the Guardian, no doubt). Yes, that's what the odious Mr Eriksen would like to see happen. Indeed, that is the core issue in the MSM's reporting of not only this awful bloodbath, but also in its reporting of the Murdoch witch-trial: That the liberal left-wing press should be the ONLY ones authorised to present the news (and their views) to us. These self-appointed "guardians" of the dead-tree press are outraged that people can still freely share their own opinions and debate on internet weblogs and forums, especially as the vast majority of such opinions don't conform to their own, and never will.
Mr Eriksen would like to see all such non-conformist thought-sharing closed down, and to force us to read the Guardian instead.

What a thoroughly repulsive (yet illuminating) article he has written.

25 July 2011 at 21:39  
Anonymous Francois Crouzet said...

Danjo :

"It's like everyone has suddenly become a conspiracy theory loony and I'm finding it a bit disturbing to be honest."

Yep!

* It is all the fault of aliens from outer space who have made an alliance with mossad out of area 51.

OR :

*It is all the fault of the catholic church (dominated by freemasons), who is hearlding the anti-christ and the return of Jesus Christ.

OR :

* This was a 'false flag' operation by the EU and other NWO elites, who will use this to supress liberites across europe and hearld in a global government.

Any more ?

In fact the simple truth is that the human mind needs to rationalise terrible events and a conspiracy theory seems to appeal to some more than the facts- that of a few deranged lunatics slaughtering youths for reasons most people cannot comprehend.

25 July 2011 at 21:42  
Blogger English Viking said...

DanJ0,

I'll forgive you, thousands wouldn't.

F.C.

Children are dead. Don't make light, there's a good chap.

25 July 2011 at 21:49  
Blogger English Viking said...

Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced the near-overwhelming sense of pointlessness?

I try to speak the truth, as I see it, and am vilified for it. I say as I see, and I am called awful names. I can see the terror, the carnage, the utter destruction, and I try to warn, but others just snigger and scorn.

I feel tired, so very, very tired.

There are those who are snug, and smug, which comment on this blog, who will be wrenched from their comfort, and when they are, their minds may drift towards these days.

When they look for someone to blame, a 'Quisling', look in the mirror.

25 July 2011 at 22:04  
Blogger Span Ows said...

Bede (19:16)

Great comment, but how has it happened? Certainly re Communism:

"Can There Be an 'After Socialism'?" (Alan Charles Kors)
"It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into.""

"Using the command of the state, Communism sought to create this socialist society. What in fact occurred was the achievement of power by a group of inhumane despots: Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Castro, Mengistu, Ceausescu, Hoxha, and so on, and so on...

"No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them."

yet we are/were ruled by hundreds (Labour, EU, Euro countries etc) that were communists, some card carrying members...imagine a card carrying ex Nazi being in government? Why is there this difference in treatment?

25 July 2011 at 22:18  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

English Viking,

Mea culpa as well with my cracks about the politically correct "explanations" of Norway rapes by the police woman (20:34).

My apologies; we forget that you are at the epicentre of this horror and as a few have remarked, it seems everyone's nerves, even on this blog, are on edge. It goes without saying, though, that all of our prayers are going out for the young victims, their families and the people of Norway. An email elert I got this morning from two of the synagogues I go to asks everyone who can make it to attend the regular weekday evening service for special prayers. I'm sure it's the same with many churches, temples and yes, even some mosques. People are people. The horror of that disgusting monster calmly aiming and blowing away boys and girls is just beginning to sink in. Be well and stay safe.

25 July 2011 at 22:23  
Blogger Owl said...

Viki,

"Children are dead".

Thank you for stating the central point.

I think many people are disgusted by the "haymaking while the sun shines" by certain "Third Way" publications and bodies without an ounce of decency in them.

That and the anger at this terrible crime.

25 July 2011 at 22:28  
Anonymous MrJ said...

If this has not yet been mentioned:

It has been reported that Breivik's Facebook page "was modified AFTER the shootings", see Atlas Shrugs July 23 (Pamela Geller) "Who Added 'Christian' and 'Conservative' to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?"

See also Ann Barnhardt - July 25, 11:23 AM MST

25 July 2011 at 22:28  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

You try to speak the truth Viki?

Give me a break, Danjo at 25 July 2011 20:33 speaks the truth.

And I also have to agree with Danjo at 25 July 2011 20:22 on the matter of Sunday schools and the like.

Truth that needs imposing on us is not truth, the fact all ancient cultures and races are animist in origin is the truth.

That is the basis of all spiritual traditions on Earth, all I propose is seeking spiritual solutions to our problems.

I cannot afford snug and smug, when I look in the mirror I just see a tired old face, awaiting a paupers grave and think, should I go quitely, then a knowing grin beames back and I say "theres life in the old dog yet"

25 July 2011 at 22:42  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

And remember, the victims, the carnage, the horror is all policy driven.

The bible calls it reaping what has been sown.

25 July 2011 at 22:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd have more understanding and love for English Viking, if he hadn't rampaged around this blog being downright rude and nasty to people in the name of Christianity. So sorry, whilst I have 100% love for the people of Norway, I just can't see why I should start to feel for for Viking and his extreme right wing, anti-catholic, anti-muslim, anti-most things in life, bombastic nature we have had to put up with for so many years.

25 July 2011 at 22:52  
Blogger English Viking said...

BITB,

Truth is what it is.

It can be shouted from the hills.

It can be whispered, amongst those that know not to shout it too loudly.

Christianity, in modern times, has been imposed on no-one.

It is not forced. There are no threats.

Yet it prospers.

I see your cults, your superstition, your attempts at at purveying an intellect far superior to the one you actually possess,

Do you call me a liar?

Your attempts at portraying some arcane knowledge of the British Isles, and the religions therein, are just a little bit more than sad.

You pretend to know a language you do not.

You pretends to know a people of whom you are a stranger.

Excuse the vernacular, won't you?

You are a tit.

25 July 2011 at 23:01  
Blogger English Viking said...

Anon 22:52

You betray yourself, and your ignorance, by bitching about my dislike of cat-licks.

I have not mentioned it on this thread.

Perhaps you simply carry out the directions of your masters, like a 'san', to his 'sama'?

In English, you would be known as 'bitch'.

25 July 2011 at 23:06  
Blogger Owl said...

I do feel rather uneasy that it been accepted that this killer is to remain in solitary without any communication to the outside world.

What could he say that they are afraid of?

I have this nasty feeling that there is something very strange about the whole thing.

25 July 2011 at 23:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Viking- now that's more like it! Looks like my shock theraphy worked and you are no longer 'so so tired' but ready to fight- like the Viking warrior you are!

25 July 2011 at 23:13  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

Perhaps there is something weird, but not on this front,Owl.

Solitary and non-communication seems to be the SOP in Norway, especially if the guy's in protective custody, at least according to the reports. It's similar here in Canada while in pre-trial detention and probably elsewhere too. The no-contact with family members is a bit unusual, but again, that seems to be the procedure there. He won't be really muzzled, as he can issue his nuggets of wisdom through his lawyer.

25 July 2011 at 23:19  
Blogger Owl said...

You are undoubtably right Mr. Barzel.

I think I am mainly disturbed by his apparent calmness throughout the whole thing.

Something just doesn't sit right with me about Breivik.

I get more the impression of a robot than a human being.

25 July 2011 at 23:38  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

I hear you, Mr Owl. Here's a guy who snags and dirties all the moderate conservative pundits and causes, writes blogs and yet badly plagiarizes his manifesto from old crap, then he goes out, blasts a government ministry, still keeps on going and kills ordinary kids at a summer camp on an island, while the cops take forever to get to him. Fiction couldn't be stranger. And yet, it almost always seems to be the case that crazy and evil gorks like him often follow twisted and unbelievable paths, which is why we can never keep up with them. There'll be plenty of conspiracy theories cropping up and it's no wonder, with this case.

26 July 2011 at 00:04  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Your grace reminds me of words and how sometimes they fail.
Boris had a telegraph post this morning and quite a few comments were having there say the professional politicos were part of the problem.
Islam and mass immigration in my view are one aspect in a complex picture of EU socialism and in this country new labours dissloving of common relationship of government.
We have been stewing and simmering for some time , In Norway with a population of 6mn it was more visibly sudden.
Breviiks evil acts or perhaps even judgement is terrfying , with as he intended some far reaching meanings.
What i see now are perhaps some automatic responses in trying to label a slaughter of children and teens , you do not die quickly when shot unlike in hollywood, although it seems he had even considered that by wanting to use pure nicotien tipped bullets.
The left for now think the right wing nutters are getting the full portion of shaming , we are perhaps forgetting a majority of human atrociites have been ultra left.
No one can really defend Breiviks acts of murder , he will probebly remain in prison all his life , so too will the families of the dead who have the same right to mourn.

I wonder if those on the left who used slippery words to ill thought force change/socially engineer national populations ever consider that it could turn into murder and bullets. The ignorant lefty pre cursor nutters may yet consider ,if they helped Breivik to come to think and act as he did , by denying the consequential results of what they did .
A party disguising its cultural marxism intents , is democratically a deciet.

We should pray for the loss and not lose our selves to the darkness of its meanings , even though not so easy to be faced with what was warned about, where this numerical ideaology would lead . I grieve too .

26 July 2011 at 01:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Hard Left Extremists (HLEs)think they're tough enough for some hardball, I suggest we all move up a gear.

How?

With the Truth, courage, and the best weapon going....the English language.

No, not the HLE's subtly conflated version - that just so happens to massively politically advantage them - but the Oxford English Dictionary version, the version that the Right needs, and the HLEs fear.

But the courage factor's the snag....

e.g. there go the screeching swallows again, I like watching them, they amaze me, I'll miss them for awhile, when they return to Africa.

We all talk about 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation immigrants. This is a blatant HLE's oxymoron ~ the OED would define 3rd and 4th generation permanent swallows as colonist, not immigrants, it's a technical thing, hinging exclusively on the word 'permanent', and not skin colour.

After 60 years, truly, the most precise word is colonialists, not immigrants, but who's got the bottle to use it, in a studio, Heavens!, sat right next to an ethic person?

Nope, I can't see it either, but it is the OED technical Truth.

But I bet it would liven any debate up, as it would bypass all the time wasting waffle, and cut to the chase, in a lawful and precise manner, if not a bit rude.....but the stakes? Veneer over green and pleasant? .....hmmmm....tricky that one?

The HLEs have also successfully hi-jacked, and tailored for themselves, other highly relevant words, 'racist', of course, in the top slot....but that's for another day.

26 July 2011 at 01:30  
Anonymous Atlas shrugged said...

IMO The actions of Anders Behring Breivik are part of a conspiracy.

When trying to understand the TRUE reasons for this act, it is vitally important to remember certain things.

Terrorist acts such as this one, have been shown time and time again to be extremely counter-productive to the cause they are claimed to be in aid of.

Only an ever more repressive state benefits from these types of events, and divisions in society in general.

Muslims are not going to take over Western Europe, unless the people who already control the place and much more besides, wish them to do so, which is highly unlikely.

Much of what is now perceived to be left-wing, was once perceived to be right-wing, and visa-versa.

All political ideologies, as well as ALL of the major institutions that promote and support them, are products of the establishments, and therefore have never had anything to do with the will, or the interests of the ordinary people.

It is obviously the case that our own establishment, not our respective Labour Parties have conspired to radically increase Muslim immigration into Western European nations.

Muslims are not going to take over Western Europe, unless the people who already control the place and much more besides, wish them to do so, which is highly unlikely to say the least.

Europe currently has a majority of so called right-wing governments in office, yet none of them are seeking to repatriate any Muslim people. Indeed it would seem to be the case that none of them are seeking to reverse any policies, or laws that have been enacted by their previous socialist governments. This is in spite of the fact that they could clearly gain a mandate to do so, if they so wished.

They clearly don't, and we should ask why they don't?

Brainwashing certain types of people into committing mass murder is surprisingly easy to do, given a little patience and plenty of cash.

In some cases, all it takes is a bottle of booze, and a few well selected lies. Hypnosis could also be used, and is highly effective.

Usually the victim is conditioned to blow themselves alway shortly after the event, unless a story needs to be told, such as in this case.

26 July 2011 at 03:44  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Viking, you have often shown rabid revelry in your apocolyptic visions for other.

I thought for a moment I was being witness to a soft lad, who could not face the realities of his desired armagidion closer to home.

Now you have called me a tit, it is obvious you have grown up and found a pair.

Look in the mirror.

26 July 2011 at 06:05  
Anonymous tony b said...

Breivik is a psychopath. The left or right if it is less relevant than this.

26 July 2011 at 06:42  
Anonymous tony b said...

Of, not if.

26 July 2011 at 06:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Viking: "I try to speak the truth, as I see it, and am vilified for it. I say as I see, and I am called awful names. I can see the terror, the carnage, the utter destruction, and I try to warn, but others just snigger and scorn."

If one of them is me then you probably need to know I grew up not that far from Liverpool. The area is famous for its gallows humour in the face of adversity.

That said, I am genuinely disturbed by this. The language in the perp's document and the images he uses in his bizarre video are exactly the same as those used here regularly. Even the talk of neo-crusades has popped up here and, of course, pogroms albeit with Muslims in the first instance rather than Jews.

All the stuff about EUSSR, cultural Marxism, secret agendas, and so on: I thought they were just twee and silly labels and positions, rather like the Linux nerds with 'Micro$oft' or 'App£e', used in the polarising environment of forums by otherwise normal people. But I'm having my doubts now.

The stuff about making hay when the sun shines is pretty much what I thought when I say Johnny's use of dead kids to issue the usual warning of impending doom for the UK. The blog article, which I had to read twice to check for irony, claims demonisation of the right-wing yet it is just half of an ongoing dichotomy of such things.

Again, I haven't really got a feel for what will happen with this. The EDL is openly making hay, hoping to entice some more people to their cause who may abhor the actions of the perp but quietly have sympathy with his beliefs ... an echo of the sympathy of some Muslims for the jihadi cause of others.

But what is the EDL other than a splinter group of the BNP who have decided that a better way to achieve its actual goals is to focus in the medium term on the language of cultural differences and threats, which are more palatable for some people, rather than the language of skin colour or racial purity.

I think we're a pragmatic people in the UK on the whole and not prone to huge shifts and radical actions. Even the massive wrench of Thatcherism, a radical and deliberate shift of culture at the time by one of the so-called elites, has sprung back to something more palatable and evolutionary.

26 July 2011 at 07:25  
Anonymous GeoffM said...

Not only would the government and media have you believe that the REAL threat to the world is white, right wing, male, blond haired Christians but now Lord of the Rings seems to be in some way to blame. http://bit.ly/nC5aWu

This episode is taking a very nasty turn.

It will be interesting to track the gross over reaction by the government over the coming weeks.

If only they had reacted with such speed and fearlessness over the establishment of sharia zones, honour killings, muslim pedophile gangs, terrorism and halal slaughter.

The Left, and Cameron, must be rubbing their hands with glee at the Norway massacre - they can justify anything now.

26 July 2011 at 07:37  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I see the Telegraph has decided on its angle and position now. I'm pretty sure the EDL is being monitored and targetted already but I can imagine where this is leading.

26 July 2011 at 07:41  
Anonymous MrJ said...

not a machine (1:30) "...right wing nutters are getting the full portion of shaming , we are perhaps forgetting a majority of human atrociites have been ultra left."

Is jehadist Islam "right" or "left": do these labels mean anything much any more? Did they ever, outside the Parliament Chambers of the House of Lords (Bishops on the right side of the woolsack) and Commons (Treasury benches on rght side of the Speaker's chair, opposition on left)?

The right-left mode of discourse is part of the problem of obfuscation and opacity.

Too much is being speculated about Breivik when too little is known.

And with reference to some others above, consider "conspiracy" as found in OED, and "establishment".

26 July 2011 at 08:07  
Anonymous MrJ said...

The Telegraph article (7:41)_ Some obvious questions:

1) How true, how misleading? Veracity, sources, gossip, plants, false flags etc.?

2) Is the message: get Wilders? or the opposite?

3) A part of the dirty tricks of the "establishment" or some other "conspiracy"?

4) What diversionary operations are masking other diversionary operations?

26 July 2011 at 08:25  
Anonymous Greg Tingey said...

Extremism, of any sort is bad - or had you not noticed?

Brevik was/is no madder or saner than the 7/7 bombers, and for the same reason(s).

The inquisition and the Cameronians are two sides of the same coin.

26 July 2011 at 08:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace, I do not always have sympathy with your comments, but today I have to admit I entirely agree with you.

26 July 2011 at 09:08  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

tony b said...
'Was this man a right wing extremist, or wasn't he? It seems you lot are keen to blame leftists and Islam for all the worlds ills, rather than consider for one moment that you might be even slightly wrong'

later-

tony b said...
'Breivik is a psychopath. The left or right of it is less relevant than this'...

Hmmmm... - However:-

Psycopath :- 'not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one'...

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

- He is a psychopath. And an extreme right-wing one at that; unilaterally condemned but far removed from supporters of legitimate right-wing politics - so how does that equate with what Muslims, who seem to have an uncritical relationship with the Left, yet have been perpetrating violence and discrimination all around the world(especially against Israel),on behalf of their phoney, psycopathic prophet for decades.

The critical difference can be seen in the condemnatory response from all Western political factions and Faiths, compared to the complacent inaction of the vast majority of Muslims who laud or worse still ignore, their psycopathic Jihadists.

26 July 2011 at 10:48  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ DanJ0 (7:25)—Johnny’s use of dead kids to issue the usual warning of impending doom for the UK.

One man’s considered warning is another man’s use of dead kids. Ah, well.

26 July 2011 at 11:31  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Greg Tingey : O8:41

''Brevik is/was no madder or saner than the 7/7 bombers...''

Their actions are as equally vile, but beyond that any similarity ends; as I'm sure future psychiatric reports will conclde.

26 July 2011 at 13:53  
Anonymous Oswin said...

'conclude' even

26 July 2011 at 13:54  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Apropos the above, I've just read that Brevik was taking steroids, together with other drugs.

Once, following a severe chest infection, which left me at a low ebb both physically and mentally, I was precscribed a three-day-course of steroids. I was warned that I might experience some sense of depression once the course was completed, as they would, whilst they lasted, buck me up tremendously.

Their effect was nothing short of miraculous; frighteningly so!

A friend had previously given me, as a present, three camel-riding lessons (don't ask!) and, having begun my course of steroids, I felt up to the venture and duly booked myself in for a first, double-session.

Well, I had that poor camel here, there and everywhere, and at top speed too!. I was like a thing demented; tireless, strong and masterful, both physically and mentally. I felt, and performed, like a nineteen year old. That camel was glad to see the back of me!

My final lesson, a week later, was an altogether different affair. Having now finished my course of steroids, I could barely mount the bloody animal, let alone tire it out. I was back to being my old, decrepit self, but too bruised and aching to worry about the consquent depression.

Now, I'm generally an affable, well-grounded sort of chap; but I was anything but, during my three or four days of being 'Superman' ... I known no fear. I thought myself invincible. I had become domineering, autocratic and demanding. I was impatient, brusque and intolerant of others, whom I preceived for the while, as being feeble and pedestrian. They 'got in my way' etc.

Now, given the starting point of a withdrawn, and potentially psychotic personality, then a spot of random camel-abuse becomes as nothing!

Please excuse what might appear as levity, my point is offered seriously.

26 July 2011 at 16:31  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

Mr Oswin,

You point is certainly well taken, and sheds light on how Breivik could have "done so much" in such short time.

Fortunately for us you are a jolly and good fellow and only camels have reasons to be fretful. Obnoxious, smelly, fart-producing beasts in any case. I must admit to guffawing loudly in reading the description of your adventure.

26 July 2011 at 17:40  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Avi:

Well, the Bedouin are so damnably smug about the whole thing; there's nowt to it really, given the correct medication.

26 July 2011 at 18:04  
Anonymous Avi Barzel said...

Oswin,

In fact, there is nowt to many things in life, given the correct medication. But 'nuff said on that.

26 July 2011 at 18:24  
Anonymous Bedouin said...

Oswin shall become an hon. member of our tribe!

26 July 2011 at 18:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I see the Beeb has started labelling him an "anti-Muslim extremist" now.

27 July 2011 at 07:09  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

Oswin.
It's often refered to as "Roid rage" and has been responsible for many violent incidents, even deaths.
But I don't know if it's use has been established in this case yet.

Jack.

27 July 2011 at 11:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"It's often refered to as "Roid rage" and has been responsible for many violent incidents, even deaths."

Blimey. I've heard that chalfonts are quite painful but I think that's going a bit far. :O

27 July 2011 at 23:14  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older