Thursday, July 14, 2011

Eric Pickles: the imposition of the EU flag ‘betrays a lack of confidence and a deep sense of political insecurity’

As the euro project enters its death throes (and throes there will be), the EU has been busy desperately trying to raise a bit of cash by fining various bodies and organisations for failing to fly the EU flag. These allegedly include the Eden Project, in Cornwall, the Millennium Bridge, in Gateshead, the redevelopment of Liverpool’s King’s Dock, and Northampton University.

Since the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget (this year to the tune of £6.4bn), we are essentially being fined for failing to propagate the illusion that ERDF funding is the generous gift of the EU. It is, of course, simply our own money recycled.

In a speech to the Flag Institute on 14 May, the Secreary of State for Communities and Local Government made the following speech. Neither The Daily Mail nor The Express appear to have picked up on it, despite their vehement protestations (eg here and here) about EU flag enforcement. Indeed, the speech appears to have been ignored by the whole MSM, possibly because it was made at the Flag Institute. But there are a few little gems buried in the text, including that quoted in the title of this post. His Grace is pleased to reproduce the speech in its entirety. Vivat Pickles!
[Captain] Malcolm [Farrow], it is a great pleasure to be here today.

Let me start by congratulating the Flag Institute on its first 40 years.

40 years as a respected source of help and advice. Not only to the UK Government, but to the United Nations and other organisations around the world.

40 years of bringing together enthusiasts, educating the public, and spreading knowledge.

I wouldn’t, of course, claim to have anything like the expertise of your members.

But it’s no secret that I share something of your enthusiasm.

Flags deserve respect.

They can exercise great power.

Rallying people behind a cause.

Inspiring pride.

The power of flags to move people is written deep in our culture- everywhere from the Old Testament to Shakespeare.

And they matter as much as ever today.

They give people a way of saying “we belong.”

Whether it’s to their nation, or their county.

A flag is an object of pure joy.

At the Royal Wedding, we saw flags in abundance.

Flags representing the home countries of visitors from across the world.

And our own flags. The Union Flag. The St George’s Cross. The Welsh dragon. The Saltire.

The display of our flags is a symbol of our shared union.

Celebrating what makes the places we love distinct, and special, and unique.

We shouldn’t be afraid of that sense of pride. We should join in the celebration.

Of course, not everyone agrees.

Look at St George’s Day.

Each year there are a small number of spoilsports in councils, and other public institutions, who don’t want to fly the St George’s Cross.

They say it’s ‘elf and safety: you’ll have someone’s eye out...

They say it’s cultural awareness and equality rules: someone, somewhere might be offended…

Well I’m not convinced by either of those explanations.

The real reason some are nervous is because some extreme groups have tried to wrap themselves up in the flag.

It’s a hijack attempt.

Well I don’t the answer is to wring our hands. To say: “take it away.”

The answer is to say “that is ours. We’ll have it back, please.”

It would be disgraceful to leave the flag in the hands of people who want to put us asunder.

When the fact is - our and local and national, flags unite people of every creed, class and colour. Community cohesion is strengthened – not undermined – by flying the flag.

That’s why in my Department we’ve stood up for common sense.

We’ve made clear that at moments of national pride and celebration - the Royal Wedding, St George’s Day and the World Cup - people should feel free to celebrate by flying the flag. And public institutions should support them.

Historic County Flags

As well as being national symbols, flags can be a powerful way of celebrating local pride and identity.

At my Department - we’ve made a point of flying the county flags of England.

A different one every week.

We’ve celebrated the astonishing variety of different English counties.

From the bars of Northumberland, to the St Piran’s cross of Cornwall.

And next week, we’ll be flying the flag of Middlesex.

Middlesex may be an historic county - and not a current unit of local government administration

But it retains its place in people’s memories and affections, despite attempts to wipe it off the map.

That is hardly surprising, when the historic English counties are one of the oldest forms of local government in Western Europe.

Their roots run deep.

And no amount of administrative reshuffling can delete those longstanding and cherished local identities.

Neither Middlesex, nor the Ridings of Yorkshire - nor people’s sense of belonging to them - can be abolished by the stroke of a bureaucrat’s pen.

In fact, we’re seeing interest in county flags grow.

As you may know, Nottinghamshire held a poll last month on adopting a new county flag.

That’s a symbol of the enduring strength of county’s identity.

Compare that with the so-called “government regions” on which the last administration was so keen on.

They erected a complex and costly apparatus of regional bodies - Regional Development Agencies, Regional Assemblies, and Government Offices for the Regions.

Unelected. Unaccountable. And striking very little chord with the people they were supposed to serve.

When asked, the case for regional government was overwhelmingly rejected by the people in the 2004 referendum on a North East assembly.

Because people identify with their nation, town, city and county.

Not these artificial Government Regions.

And bureaucrats’ imagination did not stop at designing English regions.

If only.

If I were to ask you where we are today you might say Westminster. Or London. Or England.

It is my duty to inform you that we are, in fact, in La Zone Transmanche.

As part of its INTERREG programme, the European Union has invented “transnational regions.”

One of these, the “Arc Manche,” is designed to merge English counties on the South Coast with Départements in France.

The “Manche” is of course what we would call the English Channel. But the words English Channel have been replaced by the EU with the English phrase, the “Channel Sea.”

Tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money is being spent on propaganda to build a sense of identity for the ArcManche.

The multi-million projects include spending public money on “transnational street theatre.”

On “cross-channel contemporary art tours.”

And, most mystifying of all, a series of “cross-Channel cycle lanes,”

Unless there are some significant advances in bicycle design, I struggle to see how that will work.

The Arc Manche even has its own emblem.

According to its designers, its "concentric [rings]…symbolise the flow of projects and stakeholders" and "represent so many bridges between territories."

To you and me, it might look like ever decreasing circles.

This Government will be making very clear its opposition to the invention and promotion of artificial regions at public expense, be they European or home-grown.

European Flag

As we are talking about Europe, the eagle-eyed of you will have noticed that this week, outside my Department, we are not flying a historic county flag.

We are flying the flag of the European Union instead.

Is this a spontaneous outpouring?

Not quite.

My Department manages the European Regional Development Fund.

Because of this, Article 7 of EC Regulation 1828/2006, requires that we fly the European flag during Europe Week.

If we fail to do so, we face being fined. As do other organisations who receive or manage European funding.

Now we’ll fly the flag, and cash the cheque.

But any organisation which forces others to fly its flag betrays a lack of confidence and a deep sense of political insecurity.

Will forcing people to fly the flag help balance the EU budget?


Will it make the money go further?


Will it make the EU flag more popular?


Flying a flag should be a pleasure. Not a chore.

It’s not so much “Ode to Joy.” More “oh dear, oh dear.”

Normal service will be resumed next week when we fly the Middlesex flag to celebrate Middlesex Day.

This year, we aptly celebrate the 200th anniversary of the battle of Albuhera, when the Middlesex regiment held back Napoleon in the Peninsula War… fighting off that attempt at European dictatorship.


[Captain] Malcolm [Farrow],

It’s because they are powerful that flags deserve respect.

And it’s right that we have rules setting out how and when different flags can be used.

But today, I think it’s time to look again at some of those rules.

As you will know, there are a number of flags that can be flown without having to ask for express advertisement consent.

These include national flags, county flags and the Commonwealth flag (also the EU and UN flags).

To fly other flags, you have to apply for consent. This costs £335 a time.

But surely there are times when it might be appropriate to let people fly other flags, without requiring them to make an application.

…what about the Armed Forces Day flag?

…what about the school who want to celebrate the local regiment?

…what about the Australian pub who want to fly the Queensland flag in solidarity with people affected by floods?

…and what about the university who want to honour their foreign exchange guests by flying the flag of, say, Prague?

I intend to start a consultation, later this year, about whether - and how - we should extend the group of flags that can be flown without requiring consent. Making it easier for people to celebrate an identity or an organisation that means something to them.

There will be some important questions to think about. About how, exactly, we might extend the rules. About what it might mean for the councils who enforce them. And we would, of course, make sure that people would not be able to fly flags without the owners’ permission.

That’s why we will need a full debate. And I hope the Institute - with your wealth of expertise - will be able not just to play a full part in that debate, but to help us make sure we asking the right questions in the first place.


I began by saying that flags deserve respect.

The UK is very lucky in having - in the Institute - a group of dedicated and informed people who do a great deal to make sure that that respect is given.

In your first 40 years you have established your credentials not just in this country, but on the world stage.

Over the next 40, there can be no doubt that you will continue to go from strength to strength.

I wish you every success, and look forward to the chance of continuing to talk with you over the months to come.
But His Grace won't leave you with that nugget of inspiration. Being rather melancholic and pessimistically inclined, he would prefer to leave you with this delusion, straight from the desk of our President (warning: some readers and communicants may need a sick bag):


Blogger MrTinkles said...

Your Grace was correct...that was a sick bag moment indeed (or should that be par excellence ?)

14 July 2011 at 09:06  
Anonymous Caedmon's Cat said...

If we drop the letter "l" from the matter at hand, we have something equally apposite with regard to the developments proposed by the EU-inspired council in Stony Stratford. (vide Dick Puddlecote's blog for details)

"Hey, you - put that flag out!"

14 July 2011 at 09:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't realise you manage ERDF. You poor sod. I ran one of its ill-conceived projects until I'd finally had enough of the bureacracy, ridiculous rules and hoop jumping required of suplicants seeking to repatriate money from Europe to help them run their own businesses. And that's even before we move on to the private sector charlatans selected to implement these programmes whilst skimming massive profits. I finally ran away screaming.

And certainly, A LOT of money has had to be returned to Europe throughout the UK for the ridiculous offence of displaying the EU flag and ERDF logo in too small a font (or not at all). But nowhere near as much as, say, Greece.

As an example, the flag/logo needs to be a MINIMUM of 25% of an entire 'billboard or plaque'on the outside of a building. Printed publicity, websites etc are equally bad. The Lord alone knows how I got away without a fine.

Anyone with time on their hands, suffering from insomnia or simply trying to save money on travelling to Switzerland to Dignitas can enjoy themselves with this beauty of ERDF Publicity Requirements:

And yes, I'm too much of a coward to identify myself at this present time.

14 July 2011 at 09:18  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

This statement by Mr Pickles reveals how the eurocrats operate:

‘Now we’ll fly the flag, and cash the cheque.’

Our government, without consulting us, takes our money (through taxation) and hands it over to officials of the EUSSR.

The officials of the EUSSR hand back our money to our institutions and demand that their flag (The Circle of Barbed Wire) is flown; with the threat that if it isn’t, then a fine will be in the post.

When our officials fail to fly the Circle of Barbed Wire and are fined: our officials, without our consent, take our money and discharge the fine (handing more of our money to the EUSSR).

The question of flying the flag out of loyalty and respect (had we any for the EUSSR): does not even arise. The entire admistrative process, financed by our money, taken without our consent, colluded with by our officials (‘Now we’ll fly the flag, and cash the cheque’) makes us, as a people: invisible, silent and disenfranchised.

That, Your Grace, is what happened in the USSR.

14 July 2011 at 09:58  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

It is only a matter of time that our football stars will be forced to wear the EU flag on their shirts.

I just wonder how football fans will react to that.

Aye we’ll buy the No 9 shirt. Unstitch the flag. Pull out our cigar lighters before the world’s watching press.

And light up.

14 July 2011 at 10:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How long before they make us wear the yellow Star of David?

14 July 2011 at 10:35  
Anonymous bluedog said...

He's a funny man, that Eric Pickles, Your Grace.

Not all MPs are so consciously funny. Take Tom Watson, for example. In a video clip today Watson popped up to declare, in the context of Coulsongate, that Murdoch reminded him of 'the parable of the emperor's clothes'.

Your communicant was astonished. He has always understood that the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and certainly not by Hans Christian Anderson.

Is there anything that Your Grace can do to spread The Word to this ignoramus?

14 July 2011 at 10:44  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Mr Rumpy Tumpy tells us that we live in “a small corner of paradise”. Well if the removal of border controls is Rumpy’s idea of paradise, I suggest that he “get a life”. This guy is in desperate need of another good Faraging!

14 July 2011 at 10:50  
Blogger Green Christian said...

Unfortunately, your grace has fallen for the typical tabloid trick of dishonest journalism. The story has been very much debunked at tabloid watch - EU funded projects have to display some indication of where the funds came from, and if they don't then a small portion of the money is diverted to other projects in the same area/region. There's nothing in those rules about flying a flag, this is just the Mail being a tabloid and distorting a non-story into something substantial enough to sell a few more papers.

14 July 2011 at 10:57  
Blogger Weekend Yachtsman said...

How extraordinarily comforting it is to know that we still have such a thing as the Flag Institute in this country.

Despite what we might fear, New Labour did not quite manage to destroy everything.

I am comforted.

14 July 2011 at 11:12  
Anonymous ialbion said...

Every time the English Cross of St George is mentioned people (like Pickles) perpetuate the myth that it is a symbol grabbed by nasty people and we must take it back.
No one ever seen the proper English flag till the last few years it was the Union Flag all the lefties called the "Butchers Apron". When the Union flag was flown in the Albert Hall on the last night of the Proms "they" accused every one flying it of "Jingoism and war mongering" now the BBC are giving Union Flags out as you walk in
And the sooner the Flag of St George is flying from every Public building in England ALL the year round the better.

14 July 2011 at 11:32  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Would that Pickles’ indignation at the enforced flying of the EU flag extended to the EU itself. Given the choice between a sovereign nation with freedom and government by the people, and a subjugated province of the Brussels dictatorship, Eric and his party plump for the latter. Eric’s purported love of flags is probably nothing more than the latest wheeze to fool the people while Westminster gets on with the serious business of selling us out to Brussels.

14 July 2011 at 11:46  
Anonymous Ted Heath, English-European hero said...

Van Rompouy was the right candidate for the top job as president of Europe. I think in years to come we will have statues of him in various parts of europe- the first president of a united, free and prosperous europe. a small part of paradise indeed!

14 July 2011 at 11:47  
Anonymous Liberal Democrat said...

It is about time the EU puts the positive case for itself. Puts the Euro septics on this blog firmly in their place! A sickbag your grace? No, more like a tissue, so that I can wipe away the tears of joy!

14 July 2011 at 11:51  
Anonymous Onward Christian Warriors said...

Your Grace, there is a globalist conspiracy to impose a tyrannical New World Order as the fulfillment of prophecies about the "end time" in the Bible, specifically in the Book of Ezekiel, the Book of Daniel, the Olivet discourse found in the Synoptic Gospels, and the Book of Revelation.

The elites have made a deal with the Devil to gain wealth and power have become pawns in a supernatural chess game to move humanity into accepting an utopian world government, which rests on the spiritual foundations of a syncretic-messianic world religion, that will later reveal itself to be a dystopian world empire, which imposes the imperial cult of an “Unholy Trinity” — Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet.

The False Prophet will either be the last pope of the Catholic Church (groomed and installed by an Alta Vendita or Jesuit conspiracy) or a guru from the New Age movement, while the Antichrist will either be the president of the European Union or the secretary-general of the United Nations or even the pan-Islamist leader of a caliphate.

We must be prepared!

14 July 2011 at 12:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought Van Rompouy was belgium? Doesn't sound much like hercule poiort to me...

14 July 2011 at 12:11  
Anonymous Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

The Inspector General recalls the last attempt to impose a 'European flag of unity' on soveriegn nations (swastika). He's even less impressed this time with the victim nations having to pay for flag production themselves. (cf. Christ made to carry his own cross...)

14 July 2011 at 12:12  
Anonymous Bernard said...

The guy at 12.06 is clearly insane, not sure how you can fit the second coming into the EU and what this has to do with flags anyway?

14 July 2011 at 12:13  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Well put Inspector General.

Maybe some one at the EU suspects that they are not universally wanted and are in desperate of a group hug.

14 July 2011 at 12:47  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Seconding proposal at 11:47, coupled with ditto to himself namely, Ted Heath, English-European hero, a man of Kent and Balliol College,

who proudly and shamelessly led England (and adjoining territories) on the path of destiny back to reunion with La France and the Frankish empire of Charlemagne,

separated for too long after the Loss of Calais,

and sadly remembered in the evacuation from Dunkerque when resisting (in the ugly name of "Democracy") union with the mighty Third Reich, as it triumphally cleared the way from decadence to the Union of M. Jean
Monnet's ardent dreams and the well-ordered Paradise a Belgian can speak of today, and for which the peoples from Greece to Ireland have reason to be thankful.

--The Laughing Roundhead.

PS: cannot see 12:06, but could it have been an attempt to extend to further absurdity the remarks of Dear President?

14 July 2011 at 12:55  
Anonymous Harlock Wade said...

I thought that the global conspiracy was to do with illuminati?

14 July 2011 at 13:04  
Anonymous Zach Johnstone said...

Your Grace,

It seems that the attempts of EU apparatchiks to attach as much prominence to the EU flag as possible extends beyond national institutions to ostensibly banal and inconsequential spheres of influence (e.g. the sporting world).

My girlfriend brought this article to my attention a few hours ago:

14 July 2011 at 13:28  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

They won't let us vote on anything important, but the very least we can do is take every opportunity they give us ... go and and give that video a thumbs down.

14 July 2011 at 13:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Note that the comments section is blocked for this video on You Tube,say's it all really .
Particulary like the bit about political stable Europe,from a man who's country hasn't had a government for nearly 18 months,and who's Socialist party leader has said "democracy is not the way to go at moment" you really couldn't make it up.

14 July 2011 at 14:07  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Just look at the post Mr Johnstone has posted.

I just wish there were football fans posting here who could make suggestions as to how we deal with this.

14 July 2011 at 14:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pickles is a fat, hypocritical liar. He gives the impression he is one of us, one of the one|s who dislike H+S, the EU, over-bearing politicians and their ridiculous pomposity, whilst all the time he and his party lead further up the shite creek that Euorland, without a canoe, let alone a paddle, and no hint of keeping pre-election promises of an EU referendum.

Utter filth.

English Viking

14 July 2011 at 14:18  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

Unless these organisations are required to fly a specific sized flag, they should fly the smallest that they can find; I suspect most souvenir shops in London would have one on a little wooden stick!
Alternatively, Fly the EU flag under either the Union Flag or the St George's flag; I'd be happy with either solution!

14 July 2011 at 14:27  
Anonymous Zach Johnstone said...

Mr Singh,

It is difficult to see what can be done; I suspect it would fall to the Football Association to object, however I cannot envisage anything other than their complaints falling on deaf ears.

That, of course, is assuming that there is no financial vested interest at stake, in which case the FA may not seek to voice disapproval in the first place.

14 July 2011 at 14:34  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Then Mr Johnstone, this now will becaome a battle for football fans.

1. The next step is for the EU to abolish the Welsh, Northern Irish, English and Scottish football teams.

2. The establishmnet by the EU of a British football team.

3. The final step: EU football team.

14 July 2011 at 14:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But any organisation which forces others to fly its flag betrays a lack of confidence and a deep sense of political insecurity."

And the corollary is that any organisation - here , HM Govt -
which acquiesces to such orders must be similarly afflicted.

If Pickles had been a Frenchman 70 years ago , would he have sided with the Resistance? Or Petain??

Thank you,Green Christian,for your post.
Regardless of whether or not Pickles is correct,however,he condemns himself by simply =believing= he speaks the truth.

Marcus Foxall

14 July 2011 at 14:59  
Anonymous MrJ said...

The proposal at 14:27 may be useful as an an interim measure, pending production and delivery of some insignia or heraldic device such as:

on a ground of any flag of choice (or football club badge), an inescutcheon or inset framed as a rondel showing the EU flag on the side of a hot-air balloon floating among castles in Spain, about to be punctured by a trusty Sword of Truth wielded by an Arthurian Knight or Saxon Thane, alternatively by the spur of a Wellington boot or a shard from a jar of pickles.

14 July 2011 at 15:04  
Blogger D. Singh said...


I sometimes despair over this whole wretched EU business: where is King Arthur; John Hampden (MP, Berkshire); Cromwell; Churchill; Thatcher?

Where is the man who will deliver us fron the iron fist of the EU?

14 July 2011 at 15:15  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Your Grace,

You couldn't make up this video- I thought it was a scene from 'deadringers' at first,till I realised it was really Van Rompouy.

"imagine if there were no EU". For a start we wouldn't be funding the gravy train that these has been politicians seem to get on.

Despite being has been politicians in their own countries, it it likes of Van Rompouy &Ashton who are deciding the fate of 500,000,000 people & we can't vote them out!

It could be worse though. Imagine if Gordon Brown was now EU President.

14 July 2011 at 15:25  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

'3. The final step: EU football team'

But Mr D Singh, that would be a wonderful idea. Why hasn't it been thought of before? In that event we would always win the European chamionship ('we' being the EU team), and would have a good chance at the world cup. What's to dislike?

By the way, the last Habsburg emperor (Otto von Habsburg) died a few days ago aged 98. He was a passionate believer in the EU, reckoning it to be the true successor of the Habsburg Empire (discuss...). At some point in his long life somebody asked him if he would be watching the Austria-Hungary match that evening. His reply: 'Who are we playing?'

14 July 2011 at 15:28  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Mr Paul Twigg avers:
'Despite being has been politicians in their own countries, it it likes of Van Rompouy & Ashton who are deciding the fate of 500,000,000 people & we can't vote them out!'

Has been? I think the noble baroness is a never-was politician in her own country.

14 July 2011 at 15:31  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Mr Anabaptist

One of the EU's goals is to destroy national identity.

That must be resisted.

Besides, how many Scottish footballers do you think will be in the EU team?

Just Kenny Daglish?

14 July 2011 at 15:43  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Lighten up, Singhy. I know all that.

14 July 2011 at 15:50  
Anonymous Mickey Ash said...

@ anabaptist,no! The EU is not a new Habsburg empire, but the new empire of satan- as noted in the book of relevations! The end shall come soon sayeth the lord!

14 July 2011 at 15:56  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Cheer up, Mr Singh (15:15), things could be worse. The politicians could have swamped us with immigration so that we became a minority and Islam became our state religion. Oh, wait a minute...

You’ve got to hand it to Labour and the Tories. They’ve done an extremely professional job of f✖✖✖ing Britain up.

14 July 2011 at 15:56  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

I have to admit that I don't even know what Ashton did before becoming the 'Foreign Minister' of the EU.

PS- your grace, isn't there a lot of conspiracy theory nuts out in force today?

14 July 2011 at 15:58  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Hmm, Mickey, I don't know if you are serious -- probably not. If you were, I suspect you would know that the book is called 'Revelation' (singular), and that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

For a fascinating take on the EU and the Habsburg Empire, see the wonderful Gerald Warner at

14 July 2011 at 16:10  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Anonymous said

English Viking 14 July 2011 14:18

As if EV would blog on here without his moniker. Grow Up!


14 July 2011 at 16:28  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Anabaptist @ 15:28,

The EU football team would always win the EU cup!!
That's not so far fetched. In the USA there is what thay call the "World Series'; baseball or something. There are only US teams competing. I kid you not.
The americans have absolutley no sense of irony.

14 July 2011 at 16:31  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

That video was creepy.

The fact the EU ever came this far exposes a weakness in our Consitution.

When the EU fails, what will become of its ringleaders, I hope their accounts will be frozen and investigations made in order to return our embezzled money.

It still amazes me that nobody has answred for those Community Charge payments which had been stached abroad.

14 July 2011 at 16:37  
Anonymous Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

Johnny Rottenborough 'The politicians could have swamped us with immigration so that we became a minority and Islam became our state religion'

The Inspecor General detects a paradox. How was this allowed to happen, yet the 'Axis' members of the EU baulked at inviting Turkey to join the gravey train...

14 July 2011 at 16:38  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Anabaptist said
"Hmm, Mickey, I don't know if you are serious -- probably not. If you were, I suspect you would know that the book is called 'Revelation' (singular), and that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU." Really, as it mentions the two witnesses in Jerusalem I presume it also has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel? What sayeth you.

Rev 11:V.8 “And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Ernst, my fine chap.

14 July 2011 at 16:43  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

I like the EU flag and its inspiration.

Set against the blue sky of the Western world, the stars represent the peoples of Europe in a circle, a symbol of unity. Their number set at twelve is the symbol of completeness and perfection.

Designed by a Jewish holocaust survivor, who converted to Catholicism, it was inspired by a statue of the Virgin Mary.

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth .... And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne .."

14 July 2011 at 17:03  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Ernst, I'm sure you mean well, but all this futurist interpretation is of no account really. The purpose of the book is clearly stated in its opening section: 1:1 -- The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass... 1:3 -- Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Things which must shortly come to pass...the time is at hand.

That should be enough for anyone without a theological axe to grind. Just as the Olivet discourse referred to by someone in an earlier comment was in fact addressing matters that would be fulfilled before the passing of that generation.

There's a lot of wishful thinking about these prophecies. They were held to be speaking of the Hundred Years War, the Black Death, the Reformation, the French Revolution, Napoleon, Kaiser Bill, Hitler, etc., etc. But the simple fact is that knowledge of such far distant events would have provided no comfort, succour or warning to the original readers for whom they were intended. Those in the time of John would have been comforted to know that he was their brother and companion in tribulation, but would not have been much interested by a 2000-year-early trailer for the H-bomb or the 6-days war. No siree, Bob.

Your reference to 11:8 is, like any other passage in the book, open to interpretation. You have not proven anything, or even made anything likely by mentioning it. In fact, the linking of Jerusalem with Sodom and Egypt is simply a foretelling of its imminent demise (to be acccomplished by the armies of Titus in AD70), just as Jesus did in the Olivet discourse. It has nothing to do with the modern state of Israel. Sorry, kid.

He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear.

14 July 2011 at 17:04  
Anonymous nicodemus said...

My daughter (aged 18) just over heard "our president" as I was playing the video and said, spontaneously, "Is that supposed to be serious!"

14 July 2011 at 17:14  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...


The 'World' to which you refer was a newspaper that originally sponsored the competition. :-)

14 July 2011 at 17:34  
Anonymous Gerald Skibbow said...

Actually its the aliens that are behind the EU &the new world order :

Since the late 1970s, extraterrestrials from other habitable planets such as "Greys" and "Reptilians" (from Alpha Draconis) have been included in the New World Order conspiracy, in more or less dominant roles.

The common theme in these conspiracy theories is that aliens have been among us for decades, centuries or millennia, but a government cover-up enforced by “Men in Black” has shielded the public from knowledge of a secret alien invasion.

Motivated by speciesism and imperialism, these aliens have been and are secretly manipulating developments and changes in human society in order to more efficiently control and exploit human beings.

In some theories, alien infiltrators have shapeshifted into human form and move freely throughout human society, even to the point of taking control of command positions in governmental, corporate, and religious institutions, and are now in the final stages of their plan to take over the world.

A mythical covert government agency of the United States code-named Majestic 12 is often imagined to be the shadow government which collaborates with the alien occupation, in exchange for assistance in the development and testing of military "flying saucers" at Area 51, in order for U.S. armed forces to achieve full-spectrum dominance.

14 July 2011 at 17:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Typical of the Dodo to be an Europhile....


14 July 2011 at 17:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dear Boy, thanks for your response however you show your replacement theology whether it be from the 'inspiration' of Augustine, Calvin or Luther. All Catholics or 'protesting' Catholics.

The early church and apostles were futurist, it just got lost within catholicism believing God's purpose reached fulfilment in
itself. Highly pretentious, what?

1:1 -- The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass... 1:3 -- Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

This is called imminency and was preached by the Apostles, especially Paul.

As it happens, current events provide something of a parallel here. Our government warns of imminent terrorist attacks, based on general knowledge that terrorists want to strike, and might; but they address the public in terms of saying, "Be on the lookout for an attack." They do not know when this attack will take place, and they could hardly tell everyone to look out, except those who will die in the next day or two.

Paul knew that the day of the Lord would come as a thief in the night (1 Thess. 5:2). In Jesus' own words, "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not." (Luke 12:39-40)

This very simple consideration defuses a great many objections about Paul (and other NT writers) expecting Jesus to return in their lifetime. The "language of imminence" used by Paul and others was a constraint of their own ignorance, of not knowing when Jesus would return, rather than reflecting a "knowing" as the critics suppose.

On the other hand, we should note that the Olivet Discourse predicts a "return" (or better, advent) of Christ, and it is also possible, perhaps even likely, that Paul, when he speaks imminently, actually does so with Jesus' "this generation" prediction in mind.

"In fact, the linking of Jerusalem with Sodom and Egypt is simply a foretelling of its imminent demise (to be acccomplished by the armies of Titus in AD70), just as Jesus did in the Olivet discourse." Ernst does not take the time dating of the peshitta as correct but believes on a later date for the writing of the Book of Revelation. Domitian and NOT Nero! How could prophecy be something declared retrospectively or are you saying St John LIED?
Ernst rejects completely the Latin Vulgate and Peshitta as correct.

Hence, and unfortunately, EVERYTHING is allegorised by replacement theology, so nothing God states makes any sense except the continuing deadly sleep of the faithful whereas they should be awake and note that

Romans 13:11-12

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2 Peter 3:18
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ernst, still my fine chap.

14 July 2011 at 17:42  
Anonymous Ralph Hiltch said...

Anabaptist- just be glad that "len" is not around or he'll be calling you, the catholics and the eu the whore of babylon as per revelation 17.

14 July 2011 at 17:43  
Blogger English Viking said...

Ernst S B + T,

It was me, I was on another's computer (with a full travel keyboard, hence numerous missing words and strange apostrophes!) and thought it best not to log in to obtain my screen-tag as I didn't trust the system I was using not to remember my password, etc.

Anyway, my sentiment still stands; how can His Grace hold the corpulent expenses thief that is Pickles up as a hero of Conservative and British values, when he and his mob continue to urinate on both from a great height?

Watch Pickles in a pickle

14 July 2011 at 17:44  
Anonymous Ralph Hiltch said...

But in any case it looks like we have his best supporters Ernsty and Tiddles to do this instead....

(although the guy clearly doesn't know that Anabaptists - now the likes of the amish, qakers etc -were attacked by protestants and catholics alike during the reformation period).

14 July 2011 at 17:45  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Office of Inspector General (16:38)—Germany already has enough Turkish problems without adding more:

German Family Minister Kristina Schroeder on Tuesday criticised Muslim youths for displaying hostility towards Germans. ... ‘We are dealing with fundamentally hostile attitudes towards other groups—particularly against Germans and Christians.’

14 July 2011 at 17:46  
Anonymous Dean Folan said...

So is the EU a work of the devil & part of the second coming (Ernsty's view as well as the communicants Micky Ash and Onward Christian Soldiers) or is it an alien cover up as per Gerald Skibbow?

And what proof is there to any of these claims?

14 July 2011 at 17:49  
Anonymous Dean Folan said...

Ah good- Johnny Rottenborough is posting- that lad normally speaks sense- especially on the muslim issue. Perhaps he can advise?

14 July 2011 at 17:51  
Blogger len said...

How about the E U flag depicting a needle and thread?
For we have all been well and truly 'stitched up' by those running the E U .

Second choice ,a pair of Dodo`s sitting on top of the Tower of Babel? a sort of twist on the Liver building.

14 July 2011 at 17:54  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...


Thought the sentiments sounded right but unlike you to not log in.

Ralph Hiltch said...

But in any case it looks like we have his best supporters Ernsty and Tiddles to do this instead....
(although the guy clearly doesn't know that Anabaptists - now the likes of the amish, qakers etc -were attacked by protestants and catholics alike during the reformation period).

You appear to believe that existing Anabaptists are similar in theology to those attacked. Wrong, as Calvin dragged them in kicking and screaming.

Do read history, there's a charming and delightful boy.


14 July 2011 at 17:54  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

I am sorry, Ernst, that you resort to name-calling ('replacement theology') as a substitute for careful reasoning. I am perfectly willing to converse with you in detail about the content of texts, especially the Olivet discourse, but really can't be bothered with your attempts to undermine my position by associating it with something you have decided a priori to be villainous. By the way, I do not share the perspectives of Augustine, Calvin or Luther, nor, for that matter, of the Papists. I am an anabaptist.

Thanks for the words of comfort, Mr Hiltch, though actually I am perfectly capable of ignoring Len.
P.S. You are almost right about anabaptists -- harmless people who, because of their harmlessness were perceived to be a threat by both Papists and Protestants alike. Somewhat distant from the Quakers, though.

P.P.S. I'm not entirely sure what the delightful Ernst's latest comment means, but I suspect he is as ignorant of the history of anabaptists as he is of my theological position.

14 July 2011 at 17:59  
Anonymous Imperial Alpha Draconian Ambassador said...

"Since the late 1970s, extraterrestrials from other habitable planets such as "Greys" and "Reptilians" (from Alpha Draconis) have been included in the New World Order conspiracy, in more or less dominant roles."

Rubbish! The Alpha Draconian defence forces have no need to hide away and covertly conquer the earth, we could do that with one single ship, you primitive savages! In any case we are not reptilian like at all.

Once we have smashed the vile Klingons, we shall crush earth like the tiny egg it actually is- and get to do some surfing at the same time.

As for the greys- they are best known throughout the galatic quadrant as stand up comics, artists and actors. Gay I think is the term you would use.

As for the theory about that holy book of yours- the Qu'ran - it is clearly written by an idiot, so I wouldn't hold out much hope of the second coming of Mohamled or whatever his name was.

14 July 2011 at 17:59  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dean Folan—The EU a work of Satan? I think the Director-General of the World Trade Organization let the cat out of the bag when he said:

‘Among the many regional integration attempts, the European Union remains the laboratory of international governance—the place where the new technological frontier of international governance is being tested.’

14 July 2011 at 18:02  
Anonymous The Vulcan said...

This thread is getting illogical Captain Cranmer.

14 July 2011 at 18:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Do read history, there's a charming and delightful boy."

Is it me or Ernsty and Tiddles one of the most patronising shits ever to grace this blog?

14 July 2011 at 18:08  
Anonymous Reformer said...

Dodo the Dude is also letting the cat out of the bag- by exposing the EU as the Roman Catholic conspiracy that it is as the revelation that the flag was made by a catholic, then he starts worshiping his god mary.

14 July 2011 at 18:10  
Anonymous not a machine said...

When ever I see the euro flag , it reminds me that they do not care about nation states , hence the lack of control in letting some fall into debt.

It is a franchise of thievery and deciet presenting repsectability but no details of cost .

It is not a union as the UK understanding of one is , hence so much money has been sent to pro europe spin lobbies that get the lefty intellectuals to present everything with rose tinted glases and without fault.

I might accpet an EU flag that was some sort of maruqe for tourism , but it will never be the flag authority I choose to live under. It has no history ,it is symbol of ecnomic incompetence and corrupt engrossment .

We used to be able to challenge our sovereign parliament , now they get all confused about if another parliament has authority.

We have not been asked if we want this , if we prefer to have our legislature only accountable to the people who understand what our flag means .

The process happens slowly and peicemeal , until you have wreckless national government and its EU fake competence ,for some kind of switchover , and feeling of being shortchanged ,by the nice man who you didnt believe looked that sort.

14 July 2011 at 18:13  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len said...
"Second choice ,a pair of Dodo`s sitting on top of the Tower of Babel? a sort of twist on the Liver building."

I'd go for that. However, I'd be in an ideal position then to dump a load on you 'Ernie the Milkman'. Could I resist?

14 July 2011 at 18:15  
Anonymous Wily brandt said...

I cannot believe that the President is being attacked with such bile on this blog. As he rightly says the EU is a small part of paradise. If the EU didn't exist, we would have to make it up! Look at what we have achieve :

1. A multi-national federation, bigger than America.

2. European peace for over 60 years.

3. An end to the cold war.

4.Worker's rights.

5.Power and influence throughout the world- especially with the rise of China and the other brics, Europe must stand together.

14 July 2011 at 18:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dodo has not accused his grace of being anti-catholic and he's on his third post!

14 July 2011 at 18:19  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Reformer said...
"Dodo the Dude is also letting the cat out of the bag- by exposing the EU as the Roman Catholic conspiracy that it is as the revelation that the flag was made by a catholic, then he starts worshiping his god mary."


The quote is from Revelation. Catholics believe it refers to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, Reformers more generally to the Christian Church.

I'll repost it for you so you can reflect on its meaning:

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth .... And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne .."

14 July 2011 at 18:21  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Wily brandt (18:17)—From Pravda:

❛As a matter of fact, there are so many similarities between the old Soviet Union and the EU that mere coincidence is unlikely. [Vladimir] Bukovsky argues the EU was designed to be like the old USSR. The architects of the EU? Mostly social democrats, whom Stalin quite aptly called ‘Social Fascists’.❜

14 July 2011 at 18:25  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Herr Brandt, maybe you should also add to the list of the EU's accomplishments the following:
1. Abolition of the slave trade
2. Discovery of oxygen
3. Development of inoculation and anaesthetics
4. Enfranchising of women
5. Invention of chocolate
6. Puppies and kittens
7. 3D television

(By the way, I didn't know China was a bric.)

14 July 2011 at 18:32  
Blogger len said...

The EU elitists are basically continuing what Nimrod started - the building of a world government united to a Babylonian based religion.

On August 31st 2003 Pope John Paul II entrusted the future of the new Europe to the Virgin Mary. ‘He placed Europe in Mary’s hands, so that it would become a symphony of nations committed to building together the civilisation of love and peace.’ (Zenit, a Roman Catholic magazine, 31/8/03). Many European leaders have spoken of the need for a link between the religious communities and the EU and some have called for this link to be organised more systematically. In the interests of ‘peace’ the EU generally promotes an inter faith view of religion which conflicts with Biblical Christianity especially over the issue of Jesus being the one mediator between God and the human race. Islam is also growing in power within Europe through immigration and conversion. Egyptian born writer Bat Yeor coined the term Eurabia to describe the Europe of the future - part European, part Muslim. The religious forces in the EU will eventually discriminate against and persecute Bible believing Christians (Revelation 17.6).
Islam and Catholicism will unite its only a matter of when, they have more that unites them than separates them!

14 July 2011 at 19:00  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Thank you, Johnny R. for putting the record straighter. The Pravda link is quite a revelation, in fact.

14 July 2011 at 19:06  
Anonymous Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

Len 'Islam is also growing in power within Europe through immigration and conversion'

The Inspector would like to know if it is possible for a UK subject to leave Islam without it involving their death. If not, should serious questions be raised in the House...

14 July 2011 at 19:16  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...


Your argument is not coherent mixing Catholicism, inter-faith religion and Islam. They are three discreet developments and weaving them together is just plain sloppy.

Catholicism actually consecrated Russia and entrusted Europe to Our Lady following her request at Fatima. You can believe or reject this as a valid act but don't go getting all 'prophetic' about it and seeing it as a conspiracy.

The spread of a non-biblical world religion is fiecely resisted by Rome and it's cheap to suggest otherwise.

As for Islam and Catholicism merging - do get real! It was the Catholic Church who prevented Europe being dominated by Islam centuries ago, or have you forgotten.

All this stuff from you and your cohorts is sheer fantasy and is a disservice to Christianity.

14 July 2011 at 19:58  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Anonymous said...
"Is it me or Ernsty and Tiddles one of the most patronising shits ever to grace this blog?"

It's not you.

14 July 2011 at 20:02  
Blogger delcretin said...

I thought you were joking about the sick bag. Wifey not happy with pebbledashed carpet, sofa, coffee table and laptop. Please publish certified risk assessment next time!

14 July 2011 at 20:03  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Dodo, don't rise to it. It's not worth it.

14 July 2011 at 20:23  
Blogger English Viking said...


Never knock the Liver-bird!

You'll never walk alone

14 July 2011 at 21:29  
Blogger English Viking said...


If only I had been on Mauritius, there would have been one less Raphus Cucullatus, swiftly despatched through the covers with a beautifully-timed front foot drive.


PS For a man (I use the term loosely) on his last chance, you do spout awful rot.

I bid you good day, Sir.

14 July 2011 at 21:37  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Hi English Viking

I'm only on a 'last chance' in terms of being disrespectful to the blog owner and accussing him of being bigotted and anti-Catholic without good being able to evidence this.

Apart from this, I can excercise my right of free speech without fear or favour. Actually, I'm rather surprised you haven't received a yellow card by now for your outright nastiness to one and all apart from your little band of born again evangelicals.


It is brutes like you that are unable to appreciate the beauty and diversity of nature. Far better to repair your boats and cars than focus your frustrations on God's harmless creatures.


Mrs Dodo is presently nesting three eggs. So there may well soon be some Little Dodos gracing the planet! Good news, what?

14 July 2011 at 22:25  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

"The EU elitists are basically continuing what Nimrod started - the building of a world government united to a Babylonian based religion."

Sorry but who is Nimord and what is the Babylonian based religion? If Len refers to modern day Iraq this must mean either Islam or Christianity. If Len means the ancient Babylonian religion, like Marduk and Gilmish, then how many people actually follow that now? It's like referring to the ancient Greek or Egyptian religions.

I am getting more and more confused by Len's future predictions. I had to say that the Roman-Catholic/Islamic Union is somewhat far fetched to me.

14 July 2011 at 22:35  
Blogger The Fact Compiler said...

My Flabber is gasted!

14 July 2011 at 22:45  
Blogger English Viking said...


You have been provided evidence enough!

You speak of rights. How vile!

Rights are granted, not earned. You have earned all sorts of things, but rights? None!

I, myself having been warned by His Grace, and so I have heeded his warnings.

You would do well to heed the same.

I wish you and yours the most very best.

14 July 2011 at 22:45  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

Did you do English at school?

"I'm only on a 'last chance' in terms of being disrespectful to the blog owner and accussing him of being bigotted and anti-Catholic without good being able to evidence this."


If I accuse Mr Cranmer of bigotry or anti-Catholicism then I must provide evidence supporting this.

"Rights are granted, not earned. You have earned all sorts of things, but rights? None!"

How very strange! Pray tell who grants such rights?

14 July 2011 at 22:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul Twigg said ...
"Sorry but who is Nimord and what is the Babylonian based religion?"

He's alleged to have been behind the building of the Tower at Babel.

The Babylonian based religion is, I think, reflective of Mr len's paranoia concerning the Catholic Church and his persistent misrepresentations of said institution.

14 July 2011 at 23:05  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

Have you read Mr Cranmer's 'bottom line'?

14 July 2011 at 23:10  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Flags: Ann Barnhardt today (July 14 11:09 AM MST) is a reminder that the "Betsy Ross" version of the flag of the early Congress of the !3 Colonies (which were to become united as the USA) shows the 13 stars of the first states in a configuration like that of the "EU" on a blue ground.

There are various ways of seeing the significance of the similarity, from portent to plagiarism.

Perhaps the Office of Inspector General could give some guidance on the point.

14 July 2011 at 23:45  
Anonymous Same Old World said...

Onward Christian Warriors said...
"Your Grace, there is a globalist conspiracy to impose..."

Plagiarist or original author?

You naughty man or woman! This a diret lift from an artile on YouTube.

Either way, in my opinion, posting it here without citing your source is a dishonest and unethical act.

14 July 2011 at 23:46  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Mr J said ....

Concerning the Betsy Rose flag:

"There are various ways of seeing the significance of the similarity, from portent to plagiarism."

Interesting thought.

The image of a circle of stars on a blue background seems appealing to Europeans. This is reflective, perhaps, of centuries of Europe's Roman Catholic heritage, with the ever present statues of Our Lady as the 'Woman of the Apocalypse', with the band of twelve stars.

The difference is that the BT flag of 13 was regarded as signifying an incomplete union, whereas the EU flag, because 12 signifies completeness, is allegorial for unity.

Personally, I like the design. However, I am a Roman Catholic and look past political divides hoping instead to see a unity based on Christian faith and its precepts.

This is what it means to me. I am not a Europhile preferring instead Churhill's vision of a commonwealth of independent European states working together. Politial and economic union is not what it's about for me.

15 July 2011 at 00:21  
Anonymous Alpha Centuarian said...

The Alpha Draconian Ambassador is just upset because in circa 265 years from now the Earth Union (of Sovereign Star Republics) or EUSSR is going to smash the Draconian space fleet at the battle of Gelsie 34 (the star system of of the Albion Alliance or as you would call it the UK), using the latest human warships of the EUSS "Van Rompouy" & the Habsburg Empire's
SMS "Fritz De Grosse" class battleship& the evenmore experimental HMS "Cranmer" Class Space Cruiser of the Albion Alliance.

I think the national anthem of the human race is as follows :

" The Earth Union is blessed and free .All the world’s ideologies for all to see .United by our humanity .All are free and respected regardless of
race, sex, religion or sexual orientation. May the blessed Earth Union forever be!

REFRAIN :Long live our Earth motherland ,Built by the people's mighty hand!Long live our people, united and free !Strong in our friendship, tried by fire Long may our glorious flag inspire !Shining in glory, for all to see .

United forever in friendship and labor .Our mighty republics will ever endure! The great Earth Union will live through the ages;
The dream of a people, their fortress secure !


We fought for the future, destroyed the Alien Invader
And brought to our homeland the laurels of fame .A glory will live in the memory of nations .And all generations will honor her name "


15 July 2011 at 00:54  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Again: Portent or plagiarism?...

12 stars -- Zodiac -- Constellation of Ariadne -- myth of Bacchus -- Corona Borealis

Answers on a tasteful p.c. to Whom It May Concern, Caer Arianrhod.

15 July 2011 at 00:58  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Mr J

Don't forget the Twelve Tribes of Israel and the Twelve Apostles.

Completeness and unity ...

15 July 2011 at 01:15  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oh, and the Twelve baskets of bread and fish left from the five loaves and two fishes.

15 July 2011 at 01:47  
Anonymous Oswin said...

... and back to flags: I'm against the burning of any flag, so I would suggest sequestrating the Euro-rag; then, employ some handy seamstress to refashion into big girls' knickers. Subsequent displays being wholly dependant upon the good nature of said big girls.

Starry-eyed and starry-arsed, what more could a man wish for eh?

Feel free to offer your own useful, 'make do and mend' suggestions for possible conversion:

15 July 2011 at 03:27  
Blogger len said...

Anyone wanting to find the Babylonian roots of Catholicism can do so very easily,read 'Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons' online there are many others.

The political/religious union of the E U is a fact, look at the symbolism used by the E U .
The E U is in fact telling us what they are doing!.
Such is the spiritual blindness of the people that those behind the E U are flaunting it in our faces!

What has Babylon to do with Catholicism? Read Hislop and others, discover how a religion started by Nimrod and his wife, Semiramus, in Babel, spread throughout various regions of the world, and taking on different names under different pagan religions, but keeping the same pagan rituals and trappings.

These same occultic rituals embody the Roman Catholic Church of today.

Learn the true origins of: The Mother/Son worship, the sun god, The occultic Mass, The Wafer god (Eucharist), the Purgatory myth, The Sovereign Pontiff, Prayers for the Dead (necromancy)Rosary magic, The Sign of the Cross, The Confessional, Occultic clothing and Crowning of Images, Priests, Monks, and Nuns, Relic Worship, Worship of the Sacred Heart, Extreme Unction, the White Magic of Romanism, and much much more!

((If wanting the truth known about how Christ`s message has been used and distorted by unscrupulous men for their own ends is paranoia then call me paranoid but what do you call those who promote this false religion which will send all those within it straight through the gates of Hell?

15 July 2011 at 07:50  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Paul Twigg @ 22:35

Sorry but who is Nimord (sic) and what is the Babylonian based religion?'

Quite simply Nimrod represents Satan, and the Babylonian system his government.
The occultism manifested in its practices and the symbolism in the rituals and dress of the Roman Church are legacies of not only Babylonian, but Egyptian, Assyrian and other Satanic cults.
Sadly, today the significance of this is lost as we wallow in our sophisticated and wordly ease.
The Reformation was based on the two basic principles that the just shall live by faith alone and the papacy is the Antichrist.
The political system that burned and tortured so many martyrs is the de facto leader of the EU. Make no mistake about that.
Christ is coming one day. We need to know whose side we are on.

15 July 2011 at 08:57  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Given that there is a good amount of evidence based information in works such as 'Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons' (len 7:50), there is too much that is missing. In the end, the critique of the rites of the Roman Catholic Church are deficient in more than one respect, including theological and epistemological.

Likewise of course apologetics both of and against the Roman Catholic Church, and of and against the other communions from which that church has become separated, and theology and epistemology generally, all have their particular deficiencies.

A Village Explainer could mention that among the virtues of the Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England under Heny VIII's daughter, Queen Elizabeth, and her heirs and successors, was the acknowledgment of this proposition as a sine qua non.

15 July 2011 at 09:20  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...


You are not serious?!

'The Two Babylons' is recognized by serious scholars as a "tribute to historical inaccuracy and know-nothing religious bigotry" with "shoddy scholarship, blatant dishonesty" and a "nonsensical thesis".

Despite this the book remains popular among some fundamentalist protestant Christians. Wonder why?

The book has numerous misconceptions, fabrications and grave factual errors. In short, it's nonsense!

Do get real!

15 July 2011 at 13:18  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Having read the other comments after I posted mine, I decided to so some internet surfing and basically Dodo beat me to my comment. Basically on Wikipedia it says of the two babylons (I think that this speaks for itself really):

"The Two Babylons is an anti-Catholic religious pamphlet produced initially by the Scottish theologian and Presbyterian Alexander Hislop in 1853. It was later expanded in 1858 and finally published as a book in 1919. Its central theme is its allegation that the Catholic Church is a veiled continuation of the pagan religion of Babylon, the veiled paganism being the product of a millennia old conspiracy.[1][2] It has been recognized by scholars as discredited and has been called a "tribute to historical inaccuracy and know-nothing religious bigotry" with "shoddy scholarship, blatant dishonesty" and a "nonsensical thesis".[3][4]

Although scholarship has shown the picture presented by Hislop to be based on a misunderstanding of historical Babylon and its religion, his book remains popular among some fundamentalist protestant Christians.[1]

The book's thesis has also featured prominently in the conspiracy theories of racist groups such as The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord[5] and other conspiracy theorists.[6]

Although extensively footnoted, giving the impression of reliability, commentators (in particular Ralph Woodrow) have stated that there are numerous misconceptions, fabrications and grave factual errors in the document, and that this book follows the line of thought of works like: Martin Luther - On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church (1520), Titus Oates - An Exact Discovery of the Mystery of Iniquity as it is now in Practice amongst the Jesuits (1679), Conyers Middleton - Letter from Rome (1729)"

15 July 2011 at 13:26  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Do-Dooh the Dickie Bird said

"Designed by a Jewish holocaust survivor, who converted to Catholicism, it was inspired by a statue of the Virgin Mary.

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth .... And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne ..""

So this refers to the Virgin Mary (Your religion's Co-God) and not Israel and the twelve tribes., the apple of His eye. I laughed so loud think I might have dislocated my funny bone.

Keep them coming, dear bird.



"6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. " WHEN exactly did Mary do this AFTER He was taken up to Heaven

Loved it that you missed our verses 3-4. What a chancer you are?? LOL

15 July 2011 at 13:48  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Poor Do-Dooh 14 July 2011 18:15

"I'd go for that. However, I'd be in an ideal position then to dump a load on you 'Ernie the Milkman'. Could I resist?"



15 July 2011 at 13:50  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Also I managed to find an article by this Ralph Woodrow, who is on the Evangelical side of the Christian faith and used to support the two babylon theory,but now disagrees with it. The article is worth reading in full as it quite clearly debunks much of what Len and others have written here, e.g. :

"The subtitle for Hislop’s book is “The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.” Yet when I went to refer­ence works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, The Worldbook Encyclopedia – carefully reading their articles on “Nimrod” and “Semiramis” — not one said anything about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. They did not even live in the same century. Nor is there any basis for Semiramis being the mother of Tammuz. I realized these ideas were all Hislop’s inventions".

Woodrow concludes :

"an appeal to all my brothers and sisters in Christ who feel that finding Babylonian origins for present-day customs or beliefs is of great importance. My advice, based on my own experience, is to move cautiously in this area, lest we major on minors. If there are things in our lives or churches that are indeed pagan or displeasing to the Lord, they should be dealt with, of course. But in attempting to defuse the confusion of Babylon, we must guard against creating a new “Babylon” (confusion) of our own making."

Full article here :

15 July 2011 at 14:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“9 This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.” (Revelation 17:9-11)

Westerners are misguided in ascribing the seven hills to the seven hills on which the city of Rome sits. This prophecy does not relate to the Vatican or Catholicism. The seven hills or literally mountains refer to seven empires.

There will be an eighth empire over which the Antichrist will rule. There have been seven “Beast” empires so far; five before John wrote the Book of Revelation: Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, and Greek. The sixth was the Roman Empire during which John lived or as the angel said, “one is”. The seventh Empire will be fatally wounded and then resurrected under the reign of the Antichrist. If the seventh empire is the revived Roman Empire (meaning Euro-centric in Western interpretations) then that means that the sixth, seventh, and eighth empires are going to be Roman. Not only does that seem illogical but all the previous empires were Middle Eastern-centric and included Jerusalem in their domain. Also, each of the first five empires was defeated by the succeeding empire.

Who took control from the Roman Empire?

Jerusalem fell to Islam in 637 A.D. This was the beginning of the Islamic Empire which culminated with the Ottoman Empire and lasted thirteen centuries before its fall in 1924. Thus, the seventh empire was Islamic and will be revived under the Mahdi/Antichrist and fulfill the prophetic eighth empire. The Turkish Ottoman Empire falls in line with Ezekiel’s prophecies that focus on the role of Turkey in the last days.

15 July 2011 at 14:27  
Blogger English Viking said...


The King, and He is, alas, absent at the moment.

15 July 2011 at 14:33  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Paul Twigg @ 14:04

Helpful and enlightening, thank you.

Anonymous @ 14:27

More idle imaginings, me thinks. Only God knows the day and the hour and it's not really for us to think we able to foretell His plan and its workings.

Besides, it's so wasteful and divisive.

15 July 2011 at 14:37  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now there are strong indicators in the Turkish media that Turkey is planning on literally doubling the size of its army – this coming from the nation that already has the largest army in Middle East and the second-largest army in NATO, second only to the United States. Presently, Turkey's army has over 500,000 troops. Its army is larger than France, Germany and England combined. And now Turkish media are reporting that they are planning on adding another 500,000 paid soldiers.

According to Egemen Bağış, a state minister and Turkey's chief EU negotiator, the purpose of the army is to kill two birds with one stone, overcoming two of Turkey's biggest challenges: terrorism and unemployment. This move would create half a million new jobs for Turkey while answering once and for all Turkey's problem with Kurdish separatist terrorists in the southeast.

Bağış spoke to journalists at the Turkish ambassador's office in Brussels. "The government is prepared to hire 500,000 people. ... This structural change will also contribute to our struggle with unemployment," he said.

Turkey's nation defense minister, Vedci Gonul, stated that the new army is "the future of Turkey." But he also said that the actual number of paid soldiers is yet to be determined pending a government study. According to Gonul, the creation of such a large army could take several years to complete.

15 July 2011 at 14:40  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Despite the government's claims that the purpose of the army would be to address terrorism, skepticism concerning such a massive force is well-deserved. First of all, creating an army this size merely to address Turkey's terrorism problem, primarily from the PKK, a Kurdish separatist group in the southeast, would be like trying to kill an ant using a nuclear warhead. Secondly, such a move certainly will only reinforce the concerns of those who believe that Turkey has broad-ranging neo-Ottoman regional aspirations.

The silence of the Western media has been surprising. Imagine Israel announcing an expansion of its forces by 500,000 men to address its Palestinian terrorism problem. Yet the Western media has yet to comment regarding Turkey's grandiose plans.

Such an expansion would be particularly concerning in light of the Turkish government's recent swing toward Islamist political alliances. They have worked to significantly reinforce strategic alliances with both Iran and Syria, two of the most well-established state sponsors of terrorism globally, while significantly cooling its relationship with Israel and the United States. Despite this, the Obama administration this past January, sold the Turkish Air Force 100 F-35 Lightning II fighter jets. Turkey already manufactures it's own F-16s.

It is also essential to once again remind ourselves of the recent accomplishments of the Islamist AK party under Prime Minister Erdogan's leadership. In just the past several years, the AK party has edged ever closer to establishing a full-blown dictatorship, all in the name of democracy. Since 2002, they have managed to accomplish the following:

•occupy the presidency;
•occupy the seat of prime minister;
•gain a large majority of seats in the parliament;
•fill the judiciary with Islamist-leaning judges;
•behead the top echelons of the military;
•infiltrate the police force (over 70 percent of officers are members the Islamist Gulen movement);
•intimidate and imprison Turkish journalists (there are more Turkish journalists in prison than any other nation in the world – more than China or Iran).

The nation's leadership is now working toward a bill authorizing them to rewrite the Turkish Constitution, giving them far more sweeping powers over the military and judiciary.

15 July 2011 at 14:53  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...



“So, again, Babylon, in our own John, is a figure of the city Rome, as being equally great and proud of her sway, and triumphant over the saints.” – Tertulian- Answer to the Jews Chapter 9

“Abraham was born, which was about the 1200th year before Rome was founded, as it were another Babylon in the west.” – Augustine The City of God Book 16, Chapter 17

“Rome herself is like a second Babylon..... To be brief, the city of Rome was rounded, like another Babylon, and as it were the daughter of the former Babylon, ” – Augustine The City of God Book 18, Chapter 2, 22

“And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon” – Church History - Eusebius Book 2 Chapter 15.

Non Idle Imaginations!!!
One of the most important signs pointing to the second coming of Christ has been fulfilled and that is the re-establishment of the nation of Israel.

Isaiah 11:10-12; Ezekiel 37:1-12; Amos 9:13-15 and Zechariah 12::1-3 prophesy that in the last days, right before the return of the Lord, the nation of Israel would be re-established – that happened in May of 1948.

In Matthew 24:34 Jesus said that the generation that saw the re-establishment of Israel would not pass away before all the prophetic signs were fulfilled His second coming. The problem for us today is there is little agreement on how long a generation is. Some say 40 years – but 40 years has passed since Israel was re-established; some say 70 years; some say 80 years and some say 100 years.

No matter chaps, for if God had wanted us to know He would have made it clear. If we knew exactly, or even close it was, many people would be put off from doing what God wants them to do until the last minute – and then it would be to late for many people. Procrastination just will not do.

Let us keep the faith.


15 July 2011 at 14:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of the virgins were foolish, and five were wise.
3 When the foolish ones took their lamps, they did not take extra olive oil with them.
4 But the wise ones took flasks of olive oil with their lamps.
5 When the bridegroom was delayed a long time, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is here! Come out to meet him.’
7 Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’ 9 ‘No,’ they replied. ‘There won’t be enough for you and for us. Go instead to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 But while they had gone to buy it, the bridegroom arrived, and those who were ready went inside with him to the wedding banquet. Then the door was shut.
11 Later, the other virgins came too, saying, ‘Lord, lord! Let us in!’
12 But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I do not know you!’
13 Therefore stay alert, because you do not know the day or the hour”.

15 July 2011 at 15:01  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

I wonder when Andrex will dump the pastel shades and flowers and give us what we all really want.
A nice soft Blue motif with a ring of Gold stars in the middle, it's practical, comfortable and will be used daily with relish.
When it's finished with, it can be disposed of in a hygenic, safe manner and float gracefully out into "La Manche", where it will dissolve and be seen no more.
Rather like the Euro-Mafia that it represents.


15 July 2011 at 15:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

John Wesley
In his great work Doctrine of Original Sin, commented on Daniel that the iron teeth closely match Islam. (Works, 1841)
Hilaire Belloc (1938)
Amazingly foresaw Islam‘s rise to threaten Christianity “Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam [will] return … I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam.”
Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica (1354)
Gregory interpreting Jesus declaration that “The time will come, that whosoever kills you will think that he does God a service” (John 16:2) to be the Islamic persecution.
Josiah Litch (1840)
In his Fall of the Ottoman Roman Empire, interpreted Revelation as the ushering in of Islam: “There is so general an agreement among Christians, especially protestant commentators, that the subject of this prediction is Mahommedism [Islam].” He even described the magnitude of Islam’s role as Antichrist to the extent of calling it the “general agreement among Christians, especially protestant commentators.”
Cyril of Jerusalem (315-368 A.D).
In his Divine Institutes, and before the advent of Islam Cyril believed that Antichrist will proceed forth from the region of ancient Syria, which today extends from Syria well into portions of Asia Minor (Turkey)
Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (560-638) and Maximus the Confessor (580-662)
Sophronius identified Islam with Antichrist and lived through Islam’s invasion of Jerusalem. Maximus was also an important theologian and scholar of the early Church who helped defeat the Monothelite heresy referred to the Muslim invasions as “announcing the advent of the Antichrist.”
John of Damascus (676-749)
Was another very important figure in the early church. In his famous book, Against Heresies associated Islam as forerunner of Antichrist.
Eulogius, Paul Alvarus and the Martyrs of Cordova (9th century)
Believed Muhammad to be a false prophet and the precursor to the Antichrist Martin Luther (1483–1546)
While many are aware that Luther (father of the Protestant Reformation) came to view the Roman Catholic Papacy as the spiritual seat of the Antichrist, few are aware that Luther believed that the Turks were the Kingdom of Antichrist: “The Pope is the spirit of antichrist, and the Turk (Muslim) is the flesh of Antichrist.” In his 1520 Open Letter to the Christian Nobility, Luther declares: “There is no doubt that the true Roman Empire, which the writings of the prophets foretold in Numbers 24[:24] and in Daniel [11:30f], has long since been overthrown…That was brought to pass…especially when the ‘Turkish’ [Mohammadan] Empire arose almost a thousand years ago.”
John Calvin (1509-1564)
Elaborating on the fourth kingdom Calvin wrote, “It does seem that the fourth iron kingdom was in fact both the pre-Papal and the pre-Islamic undivided Pagan Roman Empire, as well as the later Western-Roman Papal and the contemporaneous Eastern-Roman Islamic Empire into which it then subdivided… Thus they correspond to the two legs of the later Roman Empire – Islam and the Papacy.” Calvin went as far as connecting Daniel 11’s Antichrist to being Muslim “In Daniel 11:37, that Prophet predicted the coming of a terrible tyrant. This is how he described that tyrant: ‘Neither shall he pay regard to the God of his fathers, nor to the desire of women.’ Applied to the Unitarian Muslims, this might well mean that they would ignore the Trinitarian God of their forefathers—and with their licentiousness and polygamy also disregard the desire of women…”

15 July 2011 at 15:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)
Edwards was the great American congregational preacher, revivalist, and president of Princeton University and like Luther and Calvin, saw Islam as one of the premiere—though not exclusive—elements of the Antichrist Kingdom. Referring to the three unclean spirits that proceed forth from the mouth of the dragon in Revelation 16:14, Edwards commented that, “there shall be the spirit of popery, the spirit of Mahometanism (Islam), and the spirit of heathenism all united.” Referring to the False Prophet of Revelation 13, Edwards says that, “here an eye seems to be had to Mahomet (Muhammad), whom his followers call the prophet of God.”
In looking at the demonic locusts and horsemen in Revelation 9, Edwards saw a clear allusion to the Muslim armies: “Satan’s Mahometan (Muslim) Kingdom shall be utterly overthrown. The locusts and the horsemen in the 9th chapter of Revelation have their appointed time set there, and the false prophet shall be taken and destroyed. And then—though Mahometanism [Islam] has been so vastly propagated in the world, and is upheld by such a great empire—this smoke, which has ascended out of the bottomless pit, shall be utterly scattered before the light of that glorious day, and the Mahometan Empire shall fall at the sound of the great trumpet which shall then be blown.”
Sir Robert Anderson
Was perhaps one of the best prophecy experts who unlocked the seventy weeks of Daniel in his remarkable book The Coming Prince Anderson comments: “Now, Daniel 2 expressly names the Mediterranean (“the Great Sea”) as the scene of the conflict between the four beasts. But there is no doubt that Egypt, Turkey, and Greece will be numbered among the ten kingdoms.” Anderson would tend to agree with Goodman’s view supporting a Seleucid-Grecian model. A revival of a Roman Empire does not mean a revival of a European Union. Anderson in fact does not agree with the European model “Is it possible that the most powerful nations of the world, England, Germany, and Russia, are to have no part in the great drama of the Last-Days?” In fact, he even argues for a Middle Eastern dominance “It has been confidently urged by some that as the ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s image symbolized the ten kingdoms – five on either foot – five of these kingdoms must be developed in the East, and five in the West. The argument is plausible, and possibly just; but its chief force depends upon forgetting that in the prophet’s view the Levant and not the Adriatic, Jerusalem and not Rome is the center of the world”

15 July 2011 at 15:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My dear brothers, why the silence?

Be not thou afraid.


15 July 2011 at 15:37  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Just an observation here, but looking around the internet there does seem to be a 'cottage industry' of various writers & "prophecy experts" making quite a good living over predicting the second coming.

Although none of them really seem to see eye to eye on the detail because the anti-christ/babylon/rome/ basically becomes whatever that said writer's pet theo-psycological- political fear is (islam, catholic church, atheists, liberals, communists, the person at the bus stop, marmite etc).Even the last 10 comments above have different emphasis.

This is not suprising given that even the Son of God said he didn't know when he was going to return... so what chance mortal man eh?

15 July 2011 at 15:55  
Anonymous Frank Ireland said...

Don't worry brethern, the likes of Paul Twigg, Dodo, Danjo and all their other atheist devil worshipping friends will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of days for which we are in! These enemies of God shall be punished for their wicked ways and the likes of Len, English Viking and Ernsty and Tiddles will get their just rewards for following the true path.

But there is yet hope. These wicked people can be saved- if they really repent of their sins and follow Christ alone in the hearts. Otherwise it's hell all the way!

15 July 2011 at 16:31  
Anonymous Ralph Hiltch said...

If it's one thing len don't understand, it's foreigners or other countries in general.

Len, your theory is written with little to no concrete knowledge about the countries you are writing about. Facts are pieced together from popular books and movies on the subject being written about and then you try to capitalize on the fact that most of your readers only know about the country your writing about from those same books and movies.

It's either that or your simply writing your own idealized fiction to further your own delusions set in a random part of the globe most likely picked out with darts and a wall map. Generally, your trying to bank on ignorance of geography and general apathy to look things up.

15 July 2011 at 16:42  
Anonymous Meredith Kavanagh said...

I suggest readers mull over all the second coming theories listed above with deadpan credulousness in the small hours
of the morning listening to the theme music from The X-Files and
drinking black coffee.

15 July 2011 at 16:50  
Anonymous Reformer said...

Is the Jesus of Rome the Jesus of the Bible? Notice a "few" of the teachings of Rome. Does this sound like they preach the Jesus of the Bible? It's truly this easy to see this prophecy fulfilled. All one needs do is open a Bible, then open a Roman Catholic Catechism book.

Do they preach Jesus when they GLORIFY Mary as Co-Redeemer?

Do they preach Jesus when their priestly ambassadors of Jesus are drunks, smokers, child molesters, thieves, and murderers?

Do they preach Jesus while killing 500 million Christians during the dark ages?

Do they preach Jesus while placing tradition over and above the Scripture?

Do they preach Jesus when they teach of Purgatory instead of Salvation in Jesus?

Do they preach Jesus when teaching you must suffer to be saved, making the cross insufficient?

Do they preach Jesus while going to man for forgiveness instead of God Almighty?

Do they preach Jesus when the Pope says "Evolution is fact" making Jesus the Creator a liar?

Do they preach Jesus when the Pope preaches you MUST be loyal to him to be saved?

Do they preach Jesus when they teach you must bow down to the Pope and kiss his feet? (Papal worship)

Do they preach Jesus while killing millions for merely reading His Bible?

Do they preach Jesus when they ignore Jesus example, and baptize babies as did Pagans?

Do they preach Jesus when they "venerate" crosses, statues, images, relics, etc?

Do they preach Jesus when they sell indulgences making the cross insufficient?

Do they preach Jesus when they preach you must worship a wafer instead they parade before you?

Do they preach Jesus when they preach a cloth "scapular" will save you instead of Jesus?

Do they preach Jesus when they put books in the Bible, Jesus nor the Apostles ever quoted or used?

Do they preach Jesus when they say Mary was "utterly without sin"?

Do they preach Jesus when call the Pope infallible and Jesus' Word fallible?

Do they preach Jesus when the Pope himself states to all the world "He is god" on earth?

Do they preach Jesus when the Pope proclaims that the "church" is a must for salvation?

Do they preach Jesus when they slowly torture followers of Jesus to death?

15 July 2011 at 17:17  
Anonymous Reformer said...

Dodo- you,Paul Twigg and Danjo will all go to hell!

15 July 2011 at 17:19  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...

Agree with Meredith Kavanagh.

Without meaning to be gratuitously offensive, I have to say the loons are out in number today!

Where do get all this nonsense? Not the Bible, I'm sure of that.

15 July 2011 at 17:37  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Obviously there are some very disturbed people here; over and above the usual suspects that is - hope things improve.

15 July 2011 at 18:05  
Blogger English Viking said...

Mr Ireland and Mr Reformer,

I like the cut of your jibs, Sirs!

15 July 2011 at 18:17  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Overheard at the Jug and Bottle:

(Village Explainer speaking, who has seen mention of the X Files but has no direct knowledge of what it denotes).

Could any of the above be spoofing, with the intent of deterring the non-spoofing contributors from what may be regarded as undue credulity which is not well suited to this otherwise hospitable blogsite.

Frank Ireland looks like spoof. What say you of Reformer?

15 July 2011 at 18:57  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...

English Viking said...
"Mr Ireland and Mr Reformer, I like the cut of your jibs, Sirs!"

Like minded people or silly spoofers for the abusive little oxy-Moron?

I wonder.

15 July 2011 at 19:23  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

I think Reformer is in good company with old chief Crazy Norse.

15 July 2011 at 19:26  
Blogger English Viking said...


You should read history if you think there is no Viking blood in the English.

PS You sound a bit gay. Perhaps you should change your tag?

15 July 2011 at 19:27  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...

The oxy-Moron grunts more abuse. How boring.

15 July 2011 at 19:33  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...

Dreadnaught said...

" ... old chief Crazy Norse."

Love it!

15 July 2011 at 19:36  
Blogger English Viking said...

Toby the Mug,

Chase me Toby, chase me!

You're such a tease.

15 July 2011 at 19:45  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

PS You sound a bit gay.

Sounds like you have a bit of first hand experience there EV - go on - wiggle your chopper cheeky-boy.

15 July 2011 at 19:46  
Blogger English Viking said...



15 July 2011 at 19:58  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

I knew it - classic suppressed homosexual tendencies syndrome!

15 July 2011 at 20:32  
Blogger English Viking said...


Perhaps it you that is suppressing?

Else projecting?

15 July 2011 at 21:01  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Thank you, Your Grace. That's the best picture of that vile rag that
I've seen yet.

I stick tape over references to it on any 'identification' that attempts to associate me with their despicable empire. And I'd like to see every attempt to fly the thing pulled down/cut up, or defaced with paint, paintballs, soot, graffiti -anything that'll get rid of it.

They'd better not bring it anywhere near me.

15 July 2011 at 23:59  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...

oxy-Moron said ...

"Chase me Toby, chase me! You're such a tease."

What if I caught you? That chopper's way, way too big dear boy!

16 July 2011 at 00:22  
Blogger len said...

I sometimes wonder why God saved anyone through the flood.I bet He sometimes wonders why He did.
Man has been nothing but trouble to God and it is a testimony to His patience that He hasn`t wiped us all out.....yet.
In 6,000 yrs a few , a minority have got it right, and it is this minuscule amount that have rewarded God for His efforts.

What is man?.

16 July 2011 at 08:32  
Blogger Willie said...

Back on topic.
How about turning this requirement to fly the ring of barbed wire to your advantage?
If a grant from the EU comes with a requirement to place a symbol on advertising or to fly a flag, would it not be possible to point out that the EU require large quantities of money just to exist and is demanding more every year?
For example flying a small flag under the ring of barbed wire saying "subjecting your money to a 10% handling charge" might help.
It is hardly a lie.

16 July 2011 at 09:41  
Blogger The North Briton said...

"[A]ny organisation which forces others to fly its flag betrays a lack of confidence and a deep sense of political insecurity".

Well, perhaps. Yet for all Mr. Pickles' invocation of the Middlesex Regiment and Albuera and "fighting off that attempt at European dictatorship", the EU's flag DID fly above the DCLG for Europe Week.

If the organisation which forces others to fly its flag betrays a lack of confidence and a deep sense of political insecurity, what is betrayed by the nation which allows itself to be so compelled?

"If we fail to do so, we face being fined", we are told. "Now we’ll fly the flag, and cash the cheque." Mr. Pickles should have remembered his Kipling:


It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
To call upon a neighbour and to say:
"We invaded you last night — we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you’ve only to pay ’em the Dane-geld
And then you’ll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we’ve proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"

16 July 2011 at 13:49  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len said ...

"In 6,000 yrs a few , a minority have got it right, and it is this minuscule amount that have rewarded God for His efforts."

Now THAT is unbiblical in the extreme!

16 July 2011 at 16:02  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Good quote, North Briton. Thank you.

16 July 2011 at 16:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Reformer: "Dodo- you,Paul Twigg and Danjo will all go to hell!"

I worked in the kitchens at Pontins in Prestatyn one Christmas when I was a student so your threats don't scare me one bit.

16 July 2011 at 20:47  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

@Danjo- as student worked for Mc'd ... IF anything showed the way for hell's kitchen.... poor pay, low self estem, endless crticism...

16 July 2011 at 23:03  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, (16:02) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.(Matthew 7:14)

17 July 2011 at 09:54  
Anonymous Oswin said...

DanJo @ 20:47 : that, as they say, explains a lot!

However, having experienced hell-on-earth (I've been to Rhyl and Prestatyn!) how come you fail to make the greater leap to 'Hell' and 'Heaven'?

Anyhows, I admit, it could have put anyone off enjoying Christmas; Given a choice I'd prefer Beirut!

17 July 2011 at 17:36  
Blogger English Viking said...

North Briton,

Thank you for that most excellent poem.

17 July 2011 at 18:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric Pickles was one of the sponsors of the Localism Bill which gives much more power to Brussels against Member States', to be penalised for non-compliance, so who is he trying to kid?
I assume he read all 2lbs 13ozs of the Localism Bill documents!

17 July 2011 at 23:08  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Erdogan's recent electoral victory speech puts his true intentions regarding Turkey's foreign policy goals in perspective. He said that this victory is as important in Ankara as it is in the capital of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Sarajevo, under Ottoman times, an important Ottoman city; that his party's victory was as important in a large Turkish city, Izmir, on the Western Anatolian coast, as it is in Damascus, and as important in Istanbul as it is in Jerusalem.

What does all this mean? At the very least, this victory speech signals a wish for Ottoman cultural colonialism and imperialism. The places Erdogan names were all part of by the Ottoman Empire; the territory of the modern Turkish Republic is what remained after World War I and Turkey's War of Independence from the occupying Allied forces. Turkey forms only the central part, and relatively small fraction, of what had been the Ottoman Empire, which at its height extended deep into southern Europe, and included most of today's Arab world and even beyond.

In saying that this victory is as important in all of these former Ottoman cities, Erdogan apparently sees himself as trying to reclaim Turkey's full Ottoman past. In religious terms, the entire reason for being of the Ottoman Empire was to spread the Sunni form of Islam prevalent there. Sunnis, who make up about 85% of the Muslim world, believe that when Mohammed died, the leadership of Islam was passed down through what amounted to the Meccan artistocracy, and not through Mohammed's family -- which is what the Shi'ites believe. The cities Erdogan mentioned are almost all Sunni, with a few non-Sunni ones thrown in.

The Ottomans had two major rivals: the non-Muslim Europeans to the northwest, and the Shi'ite Persian Empire to the east. Although the Ottomans saw each enemy as presenting a different set of problems, they saw their own role in traditional Sunni Muslim terms: Continuing the Jihad, namely the conquest of the non-Muslim world. This requires expanding Sunni rule wherever possible; it also requires forcing non-Muslims to surrender to Sunni Islamic rule. In adopting this policy, the Ottomans were merely following the instructions of virtually every classical Muslim jurist: unending political and military conflict until the entire world submits to Islamic rule.

18 July 2011 at 10:10  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Psalms 90:10
10The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away.

When did Israel become a nation? On May 14th 1948

So normally,you would multiply 70 years (a generation) Times 365 and you would get 2018...WRONG!

The old jewish calender uses 360 days...

from May 14th of this year 2009,it was Israel's 61st anniversary...right?

that is 21,960 days they have been a Nation.

So how many days is 360 times 70 years? It's 25,200 days...

So we were 3,240 days from reaching the 70 year of Israel being a Nation this last May...

When will we reach 25,200 days(70 years/360 day calender) from May 14th,1948?

May 14th 2016...70 years Israel is a nation - and +10 year range.

Jesus's life = 33 year life-span - clock stopped for 33 years.

18 July 2011 at 10:18  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Revelation 20:4: “And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.”

Which ideology or religion behead?

18 July 2011 at 10:57  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Anon 15 July 2011 14:27

You mention the Egyptian empire as part of the relevant series of empires.

This is in disaccord with the Book of Daniel.

The imperial series begins with the Babylonian empire.

I am struck that when the Lord returns all the nations He seems to fight are currently Muslim.

18 July 2011 at 11:18  

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