Wednesday, August 10, 2011

Compare and contrast – the party leaders' responses to the riots

David Cameron – Conservative

Ed Miliband – Labour

Nick Clegg – Liberal Democrat

Nigel Farage – UKIP

Nick Griffin – BNP


Blogger Andy M said...

Oh how I passionately Hate Nick Griffin - a burning (hopefully righteous) hatred.

10 August 2011 at 12:32  
Anonymous Dreadnaught said...

Farage nails it.

10 August 2011 at 12:33  
Anonymous Anguished Soul said...

Nick Griffin: "...a joint black/jewish affair." Where does he gets this from? Is the man nuts?

Nigel Farage: "This country has no leadership..." He is so right! Will he be listened to though, that is the thing.

10 August 2011 at 12:42  
Blogger tangentreality said...

I'm not exactly sure where Nick Griffin sees the Jewish connection - most (but certainly not all) of the rioters have been black, but the thing they have in common is their membership of this gangland subculture, which, although more prevalent in the black community, is certainly not exclusively restricted to it.

Drawing divisions along racial/religious lines doesn't help. This isn't exclusively a race issue - it's a gang culture issue. And that can affect you regardless of what colour skin you have, or what religion you are.

But then again, Nick Griffin has never been one to allow the truth to get in the way of his own petty prejudices.

10 August 2011 at 12:43  
Anonymous IanCad said...

Any respect I may have held for Nigel Farage has completely dissolved.
To hold himself as a Libertarian and then, out of all the political leaders, to call for the army to be put on the streets is a disgrace.
We have had decades of emasculation. The public should be able to take care of this quite handily. It is not vigilantism to protect life and property.
Oh for the days of common sense.
The First Commissioner of The Metropolitan Police, Sir Richard Mayne, had it right;
Principle No. 7.
"To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."
The public MUST reclaim their role.

10 August 2011 at 13:08  
Blogger srizals said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10 August 2011 at 13:08  
Anonymous Fran said...

Griffiths may have been reading the Guardian.

10 August 2011 at 13:09  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

The reference by the loathsome Griffin may be prompted by the sight of orthodox Jews among the crowd at Tottenham on Sunday night on footage broadcast by BBC News24. What he doesn't mention is that they didn't appear to be doing anything apart from making phone calls. I suspect they were simply stuck the wrong side of the cordon and couldn't get where they wanted to be.

No-one will or should take the slightest notice of Farage. He leads a party made up of whackjobs.

10 August 2011 at 13:18  
Blogger Cam Ma said... - the best analysis of Nick Griffin yet to appear on Youtube

10 August 2011 at 13:28  
Anonymous tony b said...

With the exception of Griffin good stuff. A sensible antidote to some of the more hysterical commentary on this blog.

10 August 2011 at 13:32  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

A recent and disturbing development is the increase amongst people forming groups to defend their property in the absence of the Police protecting property and life. This seems to be a particularly feature of Muslim communities, Turkish and Asisn.

Is this legitimate action if the Police are incapable of defending property and life?

This has resulted in three young Asian men being deliberately mowed down by a car in Birmingham. There is hostility between black youth and Asisn youth already. How will this unfold?

The stand-off by the Polce and their lack of determined effort has been a disgrace.

10 August 2011 at 13:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hysteria is normal as societies pass into civil war ... think of France 1792, Russia 1918, Spain 1936 ...

10 August 2011 at 13:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is nothing disturbing about people defending themselves when the state fails to do so - it is their inalienable right and the only sign of hope in this pitiful situation - how interesting that only certain communities possess the ability to do so.

10 August 2011 at 14:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is nothing disturbing about people defending themselves when the state fails to do so - it is their inalienable right and the only sign of hope in this pitiful situation - how interesting that only certain communities possess the ability to do so.

10 August 2011 at 14:01  
Anonymous MrJ said...

I doubt whether Mr Cameron himself composed the script he was reading from at the lectern in the safe haven of Downing Street. Does he speak with the air of authority, in the best sense, or more like a dummy in the hands of a ventriloquist?

When I see his face I see Becky and Chipping Nortoneers alongside. I cannot forget his opportunism in respect of UK policy towards EU in particular and everything else in general.

If the use of water cannon and rubber bullets had been previously available under contingency plans which were ready for use and promptly authorised at Cabinet Minister level (whoever was absent on holiday), there would have been no need for Mr Farage to mention support of the civil power on the part of the army, who presumably are trained to deploy water cannon-- also useful for aiding firefighting, perhaps. And no need for Mr Clegg's dreary wailing.

Mr Cameron has had a lifelong ambition for politics. He should have been sufficiently alert to the responsibilities of government when he took office. His actions and his utterances in general and this one in particular inspire little confidence.

10 August 2011 at 14:05  
Anonymous SMKneale said...

Nigel Farage started so well... Alas, libertarian he has never been and he rather undermines his own label by calling for deployment of the army.

As for Nick Griffin's odious comment, he has either been watching looters run around without trousers or has found CCTV footage of hasidic jews turning over T-Mobile... surely those pictures would make the news if ever they existed!

10 August 2011 at 14:06  
Blogger Jim McLean at Acoustic Village said...

The best - and only - way to counter the likes of Nick Griffin is to take the bits of truth he uses and make them our own. There is undoubtedly a deep deep problem with specifically black gang mentality. If we weren't so scared to tackle it simply as a problem, then people like Griffin would not be able to turn it into an idealogical race hate matter.

10 August 2011 at 14:08  
Blogger English Viking said...

How vile to blame the Jews. Is he mad?

10 August 2011 at 14:10  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Griffin Tweets Your Grace could have used but, curiously, didn’t:

● ordinary, decent people of all backgrounds have had to turn to self-defence
● While our criticism of Islam is well known, the murder of 3 Muslims for defending their people
● now following example of black gangs. All scum & need sweeping off streets, regardless of colour
● Also in Hastings, which would suggest that low grade white trash and anarchist types are
● From Sikh friend in Derby: Just come home after doing patrol around sikh temples & in general
● Sikhs also organising to defend temples and businesses from blacks and white trash
● Well I did say that the police failure to get tough in Tottenham would lead to more
● It’s OK to use water cannons on Catholic rioters in Londonderry and Protestant rioters in Belfast
● mad wars & foreign aid while jobs went abroad & police numbers were slashed?
● Who allowed media leftists to ridicule Christian values to destruction? Who turned education system
● Who took discipline out of schools? Who turned the police, courts & prisons soft?
● Who’s to blame? Who changed the face of our cities? Who allowed a flood of new cheap labour to push home-born youngsters

10 August 2011 at 14:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe foreign assistance should be requested - most would be more than happy to see the CRS deployed - not to mention the Legion Etranger.

10 August 2011 at 14:26  
Anonymous Papal Bull said...

The Milliband Clip looks like he was caught unprepared - hasn't he made a formal statement?

10 August 2011 at 14:31  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

Cameron and Co wanted to stop building prisons and fostered on to us the useless Clarky and Theresa May Waffle.

New prisons should be built, but absolutely the basic model: that is, no library, no billiard rooms, no film shows, no health sections and so on. They would not cost much at all with this restrictivity.

I feel sorry for the rank and file bobbies. It is their Commanders etc who are riddled with PC. "Stand and Observe' is their stated policy. What on earth will that achieve? I'm sorry to bang the Euro sceptic drum but it is the European Court of HUman Rights that is at the bottom of all this.

I saw pictures today of the army of cleaners out on the London Streets. What a determined and happy bunch of white citizens they seemed. Where are the so called older blacks who had wrung their hands at the trouble their kith and kin were causing the community. Pious hypocrisy. They were nowhere to be seen.

The people who should be clearing up are the yobs who caused it!

10 August 2011 at 14:31  
Anonymous Bede said...

To allow mass immigration in a (historically) very short space of time verged on the insane.

The BBC refers to the riots in 'British cities'. They are wrong: so far they have only been in English cities; Scotland and Wales have, so far, been exempt. The reason appears simple: England has a much higher proportion of immigrants, but perhaps more importantly, Scottish and Welsh schools (rightly) teach the history, traditions and culture of their countries in their schools. In England this is virtually prohibited - it is considered 'racist'. No wonder so many people living in England have no allegiance to it.

Apart from this important point, the rioting by the young of many ethnic groups (even though some groups predominate) can be put down to one main cause. Far too many school leavers, over the past 30 years, have left school without any real education (and so are unable to get a good job), without a work ethic (and so cannot keep a job), and have never been disciplined in their life - by school or parents. The results cannot be called surprising.

Furthermore, many children have never been taught (by school or parents) the difference between right and wrong (that would be against their human rights, and would be imposing an outworn ideology on the young).

So the rioters - though they are to blame - are not the only ones to blame. The ever-growing imposition of political correctness, in schools, in the judiciary, in the police and in the media have made the current situation inevitable.

10 August 2011 at 14:56  
Anonymous malvoisin said...

That is very naughty Cranmer, you have posted three responses, from Cameron, Milliband and Farage and an observation from Griffin and claimed it was a response, sadly no one has had the intelligence to see that.

I notice the same old tired terms are wheeled out again, hateful, odious, etc etc ad nauseum. Strange it is, that with all the name calling he has recieved over the years he has never once been called a liar.

10 August 2011 at 15:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' said....

The core policies of survival found in all Nationalistic political parties - inc. the globally praised ANC - cannot be dismissed with one tweet.

We find ourselves on a slowing handcart, because the shallow, risible politics of the individual personality, have successfully distracted us from some much, much, needed serious discussion.

I suggest people judge the BNP by its core Manifesto theme - Brits No.1, not No. nth - and not its temporary leader's bluntness.

Far more importantly, voting BNP is the equivalent of snarling in a very cold menacing tone....For the last time .... Cerebus..... heel!

I don't want a BNP government, yet I'll happily vote BNP and urge others to do likewise?

It's called poker, see SNP and numerous Scottish 'freebies', for reality check conformation. (Student, prescription, Nursing Home, Hospital parking space.... fees). (and don't forget Nelson M. either).

10 August 2011 at 15:07  
Anonymous Toby the Jug said...


Nick Griffin is a twisted, meely mouthed, racist LIAR.

Will that do?

10 August 2011 at 15:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

**Nigel Farage - To hold himself as a Libertarian and then, out of all the political leaders, to call for the army to be put on the streets is a disgrace.**

Libertarians believe in few laws, but most of them believe those that do exist (mostly protection of property and life) should be heavily protected by the state.

I don't see how calling for the army to quell looters and rioters makes him un-libertarian.

(Not getting into an discussion whether it's sensible or not).

10 August 2011 at 15:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' said....

Toby the Jug... just one little detail....

Quote Begins.

Nick Griffin said ....

Quote Ends.

You just happened to miss that bit out.... please fill in the gap with something highly relevant and political.... that proves he is a liar, and >>not<< that he is a "twisted, meely mouthed, racist".... there is a big difference between the two. I seek the evidence for the one specified, not both.

10 August 2011 at 15:40  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

It really isn't hard to find a Griffin lie: His Grace has posted one. Griffin said the riots are a 'joint black/Jewish affair'.

However you may wish to wrap that up, it is a lie. If it is not, let us see the 'riot footage' which unequivocally shows Jews vanadlising, burning and looting.

10 August 2011 at 15:47  
Anonymous tony b said...

Ah. Colin.

10 August 2011 at 15:52  
Anonymous Truer Blue said...

German Conservatives tried to force Germany to the right by voting for the Nazis - and were hung with piano wire.

The answer is not to dice with death, but to elect a Conservative Leader worthy of the name.

Thatcher defeated the NUM, the CPGB and the NF, not to mention the IRA, the Argentines and the USSR.

Dave is "frit", to coin a phrase, of petty street criminals, who might throw sand in his face.

Cameron Must Go.

10 August 2011 at 15:58  
Anonymous John Wrake said...

Who is responsible?
The older generation i.e. you and me.
Young people learn from their elders, which is why they rebel.
What do they see in their elders?
They see a society obsessed by greed. MSM obsessed with sensation, celebrity and spin.
A government which talks but doesn't do.
Politicians who lie and steal and get away with it.
A Prime Minister who breaks his promises.
A Parliamentary opposition which seeks advantage from the nation's economic difficulties, for which they are largely responsible.
A liberal intelligentsia which is more concerned with winning intellectual arguments about drugs or abortion or feminism than the welfare of the young.
A Judiciary in hock to continental lawmakers and making a mockery of common sense
A Police Service hamstrung by Political Correctness, whose actions are frequently not backed up in the administration of justice.
A national Church internally split by wickedness and incapable of providing Christian hope or moral guidance.
Parents (known and unknown) too exhausted or uncaring to provide stability and themselves infected with the modern taint of relativism where morality is concerned.
Who, then, is really responsible for the rioting?

10 August 2011 at 16:18  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

If anything could possibly prove that the BNP are a bunch of morons, surely Nick Griffins "Tweet" does it. How the blazes does he see "Jews" in the rioting mobs?????

As for the rest, well, they're politicians and none of them now know what to do as their MultiCulti ideology melts down ...

10 August 2011 at 16:19  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' said.... to His Grace....

I point blank refuse to discuss any racial politics in the area you wish to direct, for reasons of..... behind-closed-doors Powellic paranoia, on my behalf.

I'm a bona fida "fruit loop", I believe behind-closed-doors political manoeuvrings are not conspiracy, it's how humans have always discreetly used the tools of power to implement political will - e.g. the EU.(ding-dong,huh?) Therefore, I am mad / paranoid.

I will not discuss this area one word further.

Well done.

10 August 2011 at 16:30  
Anonymous not a machine said...

The BNP still are stuck with there old conspiracy theory approach to alarm . I dont disagree with nick griffin that the EU has conspired to break up the UK , but as your grace points out he makes a statement that is thin on fact .

The one concolation is perhaps instead of more spin and lies , our politicians will realise the reciept for the deciet.

I am still unsure where this will lead , and at least it has not been the bloody unreasoned revenge ,i had felt was on the cards due to the foisted changes to accomodate multiculurism and its socialist lies about what it creates and destroys to look necessary revolution .

10 August 2011 at 17:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Is this legitimate action if the Police are incapable of defending property and life?"

It's a philosophical question, I'd say. We nominally give up some natural rights to live in a society on the basis that an impartial State protects us and punishes on our collective behalf.

It won't stand up in court but I've sometimes thought that if one rings up the police to say that someone is damaging cars in the street and the response is that they're very busy and it is low priority then one ought to be able to thank them and kick the living daylights out of the culprits without legal consequences i.e. take one's natural rights back for the period the police can't do it.

10 August 2011 at 17:17  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The first three videos I have not watched, since the Lib/Lab/Con are the problem and only offer more of the same.

Farage is like David Davis and pracises doublespeek.

Griffin is paranoid, he must be seeing Zionists and Marxists in our Government.

10 August 2011 at 17:26  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Archbishop Cranmer (15:47)—Griffin said the riots are a ‘joint black/Jewish affair.

With respect, Your Grace, he said: ‘Riot footage shows it a joint black/Jewish affair. Now that is strange.’

I remember seeing the footage on YouTube. It was the first night of rioting and the main incident in the video was that the BBC team was obstructed by rioters and had to withdraw. Right in the foreground of the shot were orthodox Jews.

10 August 2011 at 17:30  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

The video, Tottenham Riots London August 2011 BBC Reporter Attacked HD, is here.

10 August 2011 at 17:41  
Anonymous malvoisin said...

Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

It really isn't hard to find a Griffin lie: His Grace has posted one. Griffin said the riots are a 'joint black/Jewish affair'.

However you may wish to wrap that up, it is a lie. If it is not, let us see the 'riot footage' which unequivocally shows Jews vanadlising, burning and looting.

Unfortunately we cannot due to your own rules about linking videos,so you will have to find them yourself.

10 August 2011 at 17:44  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...


Kick the living daylights out of someone! You're sounding like my mate English Viking. And to think I thought you gay chaps were all lovey, dovey pacifists!

"Reasonable force" is something we are entitled to use to defend our property and bodies. Whether 50 or so men standing ready in case of an attack is open to question - understandable but questionable. It's a militia. It also appears to have been seen as an act of provokation and ended in tragedy.

Difficult and painful times.

10 August 2011 at 17:52  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Anonymous Colin

I wasn't going to bother replying but I thank Archbishop Cranmer for his quick and decisive reposte.

Most of the BNP 'policies' are based on exaggeration, hype and down right lies. It's particularly reprehensible to seek to scapegoat a community that has lived in this country peaceably for generations.

Don't bother replying. I will have nothing more to do with you. You and he are beneath contempt.

10 August 2011 at 17:57  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough,

Not only does that footage prove Nick Griffin to be a liar; it establishes your own duplicity (and that of your colleague Malvoisin). His Grace directly referred to the 'film footage' to which Nick Griffin himself referred. Griffin said 'it shows' that the riot is a 'joint black/Jewish affair'.

It shows no such thing. It does indeed show black youths rioting. But the Jews are not doing so. Unless Nick Griffin is incapable of distinguishing between the criminal vandal and the innocent bystander, he is a liar.

10 August 2011 at 18:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' observed....

'Dishonest' Blair and Straw accused over >>secret plan<< for multicultural UK

My >>emphasis<<.

Daily Mail Conspiracy Nut-Job Newspaper Link

You mean the secret conspiratorial politicians kept stum about their evil dishonest plans..... Gosh... I'm definitely a sandwich short of a pudding.... eh? Or was it because it was evil they kept quiet?

Was that secret plan relevant to the riots.... no, of course not! don't go all Powellic fruitcake on me.... pur-lease.... it just happened.... no will at all.... okay?

Dodo - Suits me fine, your comments are an irrelevant waste of electricity.

10 August 2011 at 18:09  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Archbishop Cranmer (18:07)—Mr Malvoisin is no colleague of mine; I know no more of him than you. As to the footage, Griffin made an instant judgement (which he admitted was ‘strange’) that Jews were involved. He was wrong.

10 August 2011 at 18:18  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough,

Then your party leader ought to have though thrice about something being 'strange' before broadcasting his 'instant judgement' to the world. Unless he has no awareness of history, he must realise that the mention of Jews in this context can only serve to confirm the prejudices of every anti-Semite who reads his tweet. He may have had a particular audience in mind.

You excuse this as being merely 'wrong'. His Grace takes the view that it is a racist slur and a libel. Griffin's choice of punctuation - a stroke - is clearly designed to place in the mind of the reader that the actions of the Jews in this footage are indistinguishable from the actions of the black youths. That is no 'instant judgement'; it is a purposeful distortion of what is evident to any objective observer. It is disinformation. It is a lie.

10 August 2011 at 18:34  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Don't underestimate what Nick Griffin is doing. When law and order is restored - and when the general public realizes that few if any perpetrators will be punished - there isn't going to be much receptivity to the standard left wing drivel of "addressing root causes like poverty and racism." People are going to be afraid, and they will want assurances that it won't happen again. Griffin is going to give that fearful population a simple answer. He is going to give them a convenient face to blame, and fearful populations are amazingly receptive to any idea that gives promise of alleviating the fear.

Law and order will be restored. It is simply a matter of how much damage will be done before it happens. A delayed and weak response simply plays into the hand of those who await their opportunity. The danger to the West is not the empty shell of secularism, but that which will fill the vacuum when secularism finally implodes. I fear it will look a lot like Nick Griffin.


10 August 2011 at 18:38  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Our homeland has been brought to its knees with Zionists and Marxists in the driving seat.

Vigilantes are the only safe bet for our future, nobody in power can be trusted.

10 August 2011 at 18:45  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Your Grace (18:34)—Nick Griffin is not my party leader; I have never been a member of any party except, briefly, UKIP. The last I heard, the BNP had Jewish members, a Jewish councillor and a Jewish treasurer. Is it likely that they would join, and remain in, a party that was anti-Jewish? I appreciate, however, that you must present Nick Griffin and the BNP in the worst light and I wish you well with that.

10 August 2011 at 18:46  
Blogger English Viking said...


Are you calling me a gay?

10 August 2011 at 18:52  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough,

You have not addressed the point His Grace made; merely tried to deflect by referring to his assumption that you were a member of the BNP, for which he apologises.

It appears, however, that you may perpetually excuse any lie Griffin tells with the riposte that he was simply 'wrong'. In which case, no politicians ever lie: they are merely 'wrong'. That is very convenient indeed. His Grace will leave it to his readers and communicants to discern the absurdity of your position.

10 August 2011 at 18:56  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Your Grace (18:56)—I thought I had addressed your point. Your contention is that Nick Griffin hates Jews, in response to which I drew attention to the Jews who belong to, and represent, the BNP and posited that they would not associate themselves with the party if they perceived it to be anti-Jewish. Griffin made a snap judgement while watching riot footage and he got it wrong.

10 August 2011 at 19:12  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Johnny Rotttenborough,

You have addressed nothing at all; merely hypethesised about His Grace's assesment of Griffin and Griffin's state of mind. Unless you are he, you cannot possibly know that this was a 'snap judgement'. You are defending with hot air. This tweet and that footage are sufficient to establish that Griffin is a liar. You say 'he got it wrong', which covers a multitude of untruths.

10 August 2011 at 19:20  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Your Grace (19:20)—I came to the conclusion it was a snap judgement when I contrasted the nature of Nick Griffin’s Tweet with the Jewish membership of the party he has run since 1998. If Your Grace can discern anti-Jewish sentiment in a Tweet, should not the Jews who are members of the BNP also be able to discern that sentiment and conclude that the party is not for them? And, to repeat, Griffin said he found it strange.

10 August 2011 at 19:36  
Anonymous MrJ said...

"His Grace will leave it to his readers and communicants to discern the absurdity of [JR's] position." 18:56

On first seeing the copy in question of Mr Griffin's tweet dated 7 Aug I took it to be intended to convey that the rioting that night Sunday or perhaps the Saturday before was "a joint black/Jewish affair", which is to say a joint enterprise perpetrated by "blacks" and "Jewish" persons acting in concert.

When I viewed the clip linked at 17:41 it appeared to me that the tweet misrepresented what the clip shows.

Surely Mr Johnny Rottenborough's defence (or mitigation) to Abp Cranmer's reproof has failed, and could not have been sustained unless it relied on showing that Mr Griffin had soon after published (tweet or otherwise) a correction and apology?

But the objection would remain, that Mr Griffin had wilfully or recklessly published an injurious falsehood, and was under suspicion of malice.

10 August 2011 at 19:43  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough,

Again, your response is absurd. Unless you are not only in Griffin's mind but are also every Jew in the BNP, you cannot possibly know that no BNP-Jews are disquieted by this tweet - if they even know about it. And the logic of your latest argument is that unless BNP-Jews discern the sentiment, then no other person has a right to. Griffin is a liar. Please just accept the fact.

10 August 2011 at 19:47  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Your Grace (19:47)—I am neither in Nick Griffin’s mind nor in the mind of every Jewish member of the BNP but the fact is that Griffin has led the party for 13 years and the party has Jewish members. Is it likely that Jews would remain in a party led by an anti-Semite? Is it likely they would remain in a party that attracted anti-Semites? For the life of me, it seems unlikely.

The footage shows Jews immediately in front of the camera. Shortly afterwards, the reporter and crew are troubled to the extent of having to leave. In all the confusion, is the snap judgement Griffin made really so damning as to earn the title of ‘lie’? He himself thought it was strange.

10 August 2011 at 20:27  
Anonymous LJH said...

David Davis, where are you? If the other David very unfortunately nabbed the top spot, he should replace the pale pink Theresa May with someone uncontaminated by PC and groupthink.

10 August 2011 at 20:40  
Blogger Sam Vega said...

We are not alone!

10 August 2011 at 21:07  
Anonymous Shacklefree said...

We should perhaps consider the events from a religious rather than a political stance because the political debate will lead us to political action designed to prevent future events. What we need is a change of heart and that will not come about by coercion but rather by conversion. What the scenes depict is a very mild picture of what hell will actually be like but most people do not believe in hell and are therefore not afraid of going to a place that does not exist. If they became convinced about the reality of hell and the absolute goodness and power of God they might consider that their short term excitement might turn into everlasting torment. Unfortunately modern Christianity very rarely talks about the chastisement which will occur. Jesus predicted it 2000 years ago and now with the Communist/Masonic confederacy in such a powerful position in the world, our local political efforts will be fruitless. Prayer and penance must be part of the answer to this problem – we have to bring Almighty God back into society.

10 August 2011 at 21:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' looked confused and asked....

Why delete my The Telegraph link Your Grace?

I link to facts..... the truth Your Grace, and you react with deletion.... are you of Jewish linage?

10 August 2011 at 21:25  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

You gay?!

Good heaven's above, no! Not unless you mean "happily excited, keenly alive and exuberant". I'm not even sure I would apply the term in its original sense to you.

Are you? ;o)

10 August 2011 at 21:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seeking the truth, 'Colin' stubbornly repeated himself...

The Telegraph Quote(s) states:

"He [Begin] >>hated the English<< above all; everyone had forgotten the British occupation, but not him" according to Lotersztain.

His colleague Jaime Weinstein agreed, saying: "He did all that was possible to help Argentina, selling her weapons during the Malvinas [the Argentine name for the Falklands] conflict."

"Israel needed a third party to help with the deal >>so that the British would not know<< that it was helping Argentina and this is where Peru, despite the fact that it had tried to broker a peace plan which Argentina rejected, came in."

Quote(s) End.

My >>emphasis<<.

That's submitted as behind-the-scenes evidence, not emotionally based, but f-a-c-t b-a-s-e-d.

Read it for yourself.

All important evidence Link to The Telegraph - 20 Apr 2011

(Link tested & working when this comment published).

10 August 2011 at 21:37  
Anonymous bluedog said...

Give us a break, Colin @ 21.25

On a slightly different topic, Your Grace, your communicant is both uplifted and concerned by the proposed procession to be lead by Fr Simon Morris in Tottenham.

One hopes and prays that the throng will swell to the extent that the enemies of Christ are silenced by the mere appearance of the congregation.

Has Your Grace considered diverting his collection plate to support this cause?

10 August 2011 at 21:54  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Anonymous Colin and Johnny Rottenborough

Sorry, can't resist adding to Archbishop Cranmer's earlier comments.

All your pathetic defence and rationalisations illustrate is that not only is Griffin a liar, he's also a stupid liar.

10 August 2011 at 22:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' replied....

How did we suddenly find ourselves slipping in and out of anarchy, people violently dying on our riot and criminalised English streets?

I'm conceptuality panicked about this sudden lurch, it needs fixing in the sameway the 2010 Mexican Gulf Oil leak, the problem was solved by fixing the root problem, >>not<< endless beach cleaning, whining whilst seagull scrubbing, etc.... root repair, not symptom.

No one said, 'learn to live with constant oil slicks' (riots).... it was 'fix it properly', no debate. People snarled, it worked.

So why not the same robust 'let's fix it' attitude, with this anarchy problem?'

We're at the wheat / chaff point, silent reservations just aren't going to cut the mustard.... time to ask the awkward questions, that always seem to get avoided, before things get really, very, really ugly, it's sink or swim time to avoid a bigger repeat event in the future.... and you chose "rest", more long grass can kicking?

Fine.... but you've ignored all warnings so far.... I repeat, people are dying violently, don't you care?

10 August 2011 at 22:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dodo the Dude (22:04)—The intricacy of your argument is a credit to you. Well done.

10 August 2011 at 22:51  
Blogger Span Ows said...

It is an odd tweet by Griffin. As a recently elected new leader perhaps he thought it safe ground for the 'troops'.

Interestingly his quote could apply perfectly well to at least one vidoe from the weekend, amusingly the BBC had it but missed put the "black" bit, they were happily saying the Jews were involved, the reporter on the ground didn't so the studio helped him out a bit just in case the ausdiencce missed their hints.

10 August 2011 at 23:08  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...


Come on then, pray tell, what is the "root" of the problem?

Johnny Rottenborough

Very kind of you to say so. I thought so too. Much more lucid than your somehat confused and rambling defence of the racist liar Griffin.

10 August 2011 at 23:38  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

How ironic that six departments of the BBC moved 'oop North to the wonderful new world of Media City in Salford Quays and thought they were getting as
Jeremy Clarkson said: ... a small suburb with a Starbucks and a canal with ducks".

10 August 2011 at 23:43  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dodo the Dude (23:38)—I thought so too.

Isn’t pride a sin in your Church?

10 August 2011 at 23:43  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Johnny Rottenborough

Pride is a sin, regardless of one's church. So is bearing false witness. Maybe you should look up a definition of both.

11 August 2011 at 00:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There’s evidence that it isn't just the Elders of Zion who are behind the riots:

“Islamist extremists are trying to capitalize on the riots engulfing Britain, calling on their followers to help incite further violence so that a terror attack can be launched amid the chaos.

Via “jihadist” websites, the extremists say English-fluent Muslims should infiltrate social media with messages that encourage the rioters so that the police remain “preoccupied” by the disturbances, according to the Washington-based monitoring group SITE.

The extremists are characterizing the violence as “useful” for London-based terror cells, saying the rioters are young and impressionable, and can be easily manipulated if the messages appear to be the sort of things they would write.

The extremists reason that by extending the violence, the police will drop their guard against jihadist terror planning.

The increased chaos could also force the British government to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, some of the sites say.

“The events in London are an opportunity for the mujahedeen to make a move in London and attack,” says one prominent entry, adding that continued violence “may weaken the position of (the British) staying in Afghanistan, because the soldiers will be needed in London.”

11 August 2011 at 00:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin' replied....

Root = Vanity.

- 'Does my bum look racist in this dress?'

(Male/female alike, both dementedly obsessed with public vanity preening, beyond all else, ergo, we are here, still unable to thrash the truth out).

11 August 2011 at 00:13  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dodo the Dude (00:11)—You know all about pride yet you knowingly commit the sin.

11 August 2011 at 00:24  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Melanine Phillips piece mmmmmm dont you just wish she was speaking in the debate in parliament today !

11 August 2011 at 03:12  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Johnny Rottenborough

If you take the time to research it properly, something your posts suggest you rarely do, you'll find the sin consists in putting oneself before God.

11 August 2011 at 08:46  
Anonymous Tony B said...

The Archbishop of Canterbury is on holiday, bless him.

11 August 2011 at 09:01  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Any news Mr Tony B of the Bp of London (or any suffragans) or Abp of Westminster ? Or Abp of York or Bps of a northern diocese affected such as Manchester ?

11 August 2011 at 09:39  
Blogger HampsteadOwl said...

Farage is only partly right about the riots of 1981. With the benefit of history it is possible to see the Brixton riots as an expression of black anger at persistent and institutionalised bullying by the police (though I very much doubt that the likes of Farage would have argued it that way at the time), but there were other riots that year (Toxteth, Moss Side etc) that had nothing to do with that. Then, as now, the cause was wanton criminality by a minority of the population, exacerbated by weak or inefficient policing.

Mrs Thatcher's response as prime minister at the time seems neither stronger nor weaker than David Cameron's today ("we must give the police everything they need") and the left, then as now, blamed Tory economic policy. The only difference is that the dread enemy liberalism then was supposed to have come from the 1960s, whereas today it is all the fault of the Blair generation.

We don't seem to have advanced much in our ability to address the problem, save with endless reams of sermonising sans practical effect. This, depending on your point of view, is testimony either to the uselessness of politicians or to the inevitability of the human condition.

11 August 2011 at 09:49  
Anonymous tony b said...

The Bishop of London has a brief statement on his website. All seems quiet as far as the Archbishop of York is concerned. But I haven't had time for a thorough search Mr J.

11 August 2011 at 09:50  
Anonymous berserker-nkl said...

England was much remarked upon by Continental visitors of the 18th and 19th centuries for the lawless and drunken population. The whole Seven Dials area in London was a warren of criminality and a no-go area to the police.In the end it was raised to the ground.

As Wellington said of his army:

'ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards.'

If we brought back National Service would this make something of the rabble?

11 August 2011 at 09:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew Nick Griffin’s enforced mass immigration and multiculturalism policies were to blame. I must remember to vote for the Lib/Lab/Con party next time.

11 August 2011 at 09:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks to me as Mr. Griffin is making a cynical comment about the confusing way the unrest is being reported by sections of the mass media.

To compare and contrast fairly we need to see video of one of the numerous interviews that Mr. Griffin has given to the BBC and other news corporations in the last few days.

11 August 2011 at 10:43  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ MrJ (19:43 on 10 August)—But the objection would remain, that Mr Griffin had wilfully or recklessly published an injurious falsehood, and was under suspicion of malice.

According to Span Ows’ comment of yesterday, the BBC ‘happily [said] the Jews were involved’. Would you regard the BBC as having ‘wilfully or recklessly published an injurious falsehood’ and being under ‘suspicion of malice’, or would you see the remark as a genuine mistake (if such it was) made as events were unfolding?

@ Dodo the Dude (08:46)—With ‘Christians’ like you, God has my every sympathy.

11 August 2011 at 10:53  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Griffin has finally lost any shred of credibility. Nigel Farage though, is rarely wrong in my book.

11 August 2011 at 12:30  
Anonymous Marcus Scarman said...

Your Grace,

Interesting, although it looks like these vids were taken at different times during the crisis, so perhaps it is not easy to really compare and contrast?

Nick Griffin is lunatic and it is amusing to watch the few far right poster/BNP types to excuse the man and fail in that regard.

11 August 2011 at 13:41  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Nick Giffin is beyond it and is clearly in his own make believe world.

11 August 2011 at 13:43  
Anonymous George said...

Griffin is the best Prime Minister we have never had. Would any of the mass waves of third world immigration and the PC madness, decline of white Christianity ever have happened under his watch? I doubt it.

11 August 2011 at 13:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look out, “far right poster” about!

They probably said the same thing to Enoch Powell. He must have been in a “make believe world” too.

Just be good citizens. Keep your heads firmly buried in the sand and pretend that whatever you see isn’t really happening.

11 August 2011 at 14:12  
Blogger English Viking said...



11 August 2011 at 14:19  
Anonymous Jewish Bag Lady said...

Nick Griffin, the holocust denier, is just a racist thug, who is latching onto the fear and disquiet of Islamic terrorism, whilst trying to make his party look more 'moderate' by going on about 'indigenous' Britons (whatever that means). If that did not exist, the Jews, blacks, gays etc would make up for it.

11 August 2011 at 14:25  
Anonymous far right poster said...

As usual it will be the left-liberal elements in our society that will cause our country to fall into civil war. Griffin is right to highlight the plight of the native British, above the wave after wave of black, Asian, Pakistain, Jewish, Indian and just about any other nationality that the UK government has begged to come into the country.

11 August 2011 at 14:29  
Anonymous Al Horsham said...

Enoch Powell gave a certificate of respectability to white racist views which otherwise decent people were ashamed to acknowledge.

11 August 2011 at 15:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“indigenous Britons (whatever that means)”

Would they not be similar to, say, the original inhabitants of North America, Australia or New Zealand before mass colonisation made them a minority in their ancestral homelands?

11 August 2011 at 15:17  
Anonymous jeremy hyatt said...

Beaten to it but how about holocaust denial as a Griffin lie?

Just asking as the Americans say.

11 August 2011 at 17:03  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Johnny Rotten said ...
"Dodo the Dude
With ‘Christians’ like you, God has my every sympathy.2

Now THAT is pride. As if God needs your sympathy!

11 August 2011 at 17:41  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ jeremy hyatt (17:03)—You mean Nick Griffin lied about denying the holocaust?

@ Dodo the Dude (17:41)—God’s sat up there wringing his hands at the way so many Christians are appalling advertisements for his faith. I feel sorry for the guy. Pride doesn’t come into it.

11 August 2011 at 17:51  
Anonymous Marcus Scarman said...

But who are indigenous Britons?

11 August 2011 at 18:16  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough, this is my first opportunity to reply to 10:53.

I have seen Span Ows comment but not seen or heard for myself the BBC broadcast mentioned.

"[G.'s] quote could apply perfectly well to at least one vidoe from the weekend, amusingly the BBC had it but missed put the "black" bit, they were happily saying the Jews were involved, the reporter on the ground didn't so the studio helped him out a bit just in case the ausdiencce missed their hints."

It is not clear from this exactly what the BBC actually broadcast.

But if the BBC showed the clip and made a comment to the same effect as Mr Griffin's, then they would be liable to an accusation of having ‘wilfully or recklessly published an injurious falsehood’, possibly coupled with being under ‘suspicion of malice’. In my view it would not be acceptable for the BBC to seek to defend such an accusation "as a genuine mistake", and any attempt to do so would be an aggravation of the fault.

11 August 2011 at 18:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ MrJ (18:50)—Thank you for replying. Your comment appears to make the assumption that Jews were not involved. Are you able to say that for certain? If it is not certain, how can the BBC and Nick Griffin be accused of publishing an injurious falsehood?

11 August 2011 at 19:02  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Johnny Rotten

You just don't get it do you? The onus rests on Griffin to evidence his vile accussation.

"God’s sat up there wringing his hands at the way so many Christians are appalling advertisements for his faith. I feel sorry for the guy."

Oh dear. You are correct that many of us Christians fall short but God wringing His hands? And you feeling sorry for "the guy"?

What sort of Christian are you?

11 August 2011 at 19:39  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Mr Johnny Rottenborough 19:02.

This looks like mere wilful teasing in a discussion where, in my view, it is out of place.

If it is meant to be taken seriously, then you should be able to see that my reply stands without such assumption, and nothing you have presented exonerates you from HG's earlier reproof.

11 August 2011 at 19:51  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Marcus Scarman said...
"But who are indigenous Britons?"


I prefer the terms natural born and alien. It simplifies matters.

11 August 2011 at 19:56  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dodo the Dude (19:39)—The onus rests on Nick Griffin’s (and the BBC’s) detractors to prove conclusively that Jews were not involved. Until then, it’s assumption of innocence. What’s so special about the Jews anyway? Are we supposed to pretend they’re incapable of wrongdoing?

What sort of Christian am I? Cultural. The hypocrisy I witness in those who make a greater commitment would turn my stomach.

@ MrJ (19:51)—Your earlier reply talks of falsehood. That would only hold if it were proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Jews were not involved. If there is no proof, there can be no falsehood.

11 August 2011 at 20:03  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Try thinking through the discussion so far at little more carefully, Mr Johnny Rottenborough. I feel I need say no more.

11 August 2011 at 20:21  
Anonymous MrJ said...

(typo 20:21) ...a little more...

11 August 2011 at 20:23  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ MrJ (20:21)—With or without the typo, it’s a cheap cop-out.

11 August 2011 at 20:25  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Johnny Rottenborough you said :

"What sort of Christian am I? Cultural. The hypocrisy I witness in those who make a greater commitment would turn my stomach."

My friend there is no such thing as a 'Cultural Christian'; you are either a Christian or not. You are either in or out. This is not my gospel, but that of Jesus Christ (I could provide you with Bible passages to support this view, if you wish).

Believe in him, follow him, seek salvation through Jesus Christ alone. Or not. It is your choice. But don't bother with a meaningless phrase like 'cultural christian'.

Regarding Nick Griffin,as other have said above, the Orthodox Jews were in fact innocent by-standers and therefore nothing to do with this mindless madness.

11 August 2011 at 20:32  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Hi Paul. Let’s get Nick Griffin out of the way first. He calls it like he sees it. White, Black, Brown, Christian, Muslim, Jew, whatever: if they’re doing wrong he pulls no punches. I linked to a video last night that showed Orthodox Jews. I don’t watch broadcast TV and I have seen only a handful of riot videos so it was simply luck that I had seen that video, but how do any of us know what Griffin was watching when he made his comment? And can any of us say that Jews were not involved? The Pavlovian reactions that were unleashed on this thread were scary.

I have a very great deal of respect for Christianity. It has made England what she is, and the threat to Christianity from the growth of Islam is a great concern of mine, as His Grace will wearily testify. I greatly admire Christianity’s teachings of universal love and respect (a complete contrast to Islam, with its hatred of non-Muslims). I cannot, though, make the step to full belief. That’s partly because of the rôle the Church is playing in facilitating the spread of Islam (why should I join a faith that is committing suicide?) and, I’m sorry to say, too many of the Christians I have known have been reprehensible people.

11 August 2011 at 21:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Paul: "But don't bother with a meaningless phrase like 'cultural christian'."

We need that adding to the census form so that something like 40 million people can be removed from the Christian total.

11 August 2011 at 21:46  
Blogger English Viking said...


Don't concern yourself with the faulty witness of some of the Christians you have known.

You will, one day, stand before God, and will have give an account. He will not accept that you willfully refused to obey Him because others were hypocrites as a valid excuse.

Christ once said to one his disciples who was questioning the actions of another disciple. 'What is that to thee? Follow thou me.'

12 August 2011 at 20:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

I keep forgetting my prepositions - the fault of thinking in one language and typing in another.

The above is missing 'to' and 'of'. Sorry.

12 August 2011 at 20:49  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"Christ once said to one his disciples who was questioning the actions of another disciple. 'What is that to thee? Follow thou me.'"

That's actually quite good proof of his divinity. I mean, I don't suppose that many people back then could speak in 17th century English.

12 August 2011 at 21:31  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ English Viking (20:47)—I do my best to live by the Christian moral code, but for practical reasons rather than spiritual. A moral code that is based on love (or, at least, grudging tolerance) of neighbour has to be the way forward, in total contrast to the repulsive Islamic doctrine of segregating the world into Muslim and non-Muslim, and pitting one against the other.

But when Christianity extends the gospel of love to its bitterest enemy, Islam, my respect for it nosedives, and when the ABC calls Islam a fine religion, it’s vomit time. If muscular Christianity (now that would appeal to DanJ0) came back into fashion, even I would consider signing up.

12 August 2011 at 22:00  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"If muscular Christianity (now that would appeal to DanJ0) came back into fashion, even I would consider signing up."

I'm not a Muscle Mary fan at all. I prefer 'ripped', actually.

13 August 2011 at 06:14  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ DanJ0 (06:14)—Ripped, buffed and polished Christianity. Sounds good.

13 August 2011 at 10:54  
Blogger English Viking said...


Pay no mind to non-Christians like the ABC.

I too want to vomit when I hear liberal Marxism passed off as Christianity.

Read the Bible - the KJV, non PC version, obviously, and you'll see that it is not a prerequisite to be a total moron, a libtard, to become a Christian.

Love your enemy is jolly sound advice. It means to spare him from cruelty during war, or to turn a blind eye to a minor indiscretion. Feed him if he's hungry, water him if he thirsts. Basic decency. It most certainly does not mean that he should be allowed to deracinate the indigenous culture, by invading in simply enormous numbers.

Really Johnny, read the Bible. I think you are close. Read John chapter 3 for an example of another who was close, and eventually got there in the end. It did cost him, though.


13 August 2011 at 16:50  
Blogger English Viking said...


In the modern parlance then:

'What's it got to do with you? Mind your own business, and obey me only.'

See, it's simple really.

13 August 2011 at 16:53  
Blogger English Viking said...


BTW, using 'thee' and 'thou', 'ye' and 'you' is most helpful to the reader.

One is plural, the other singular, and helps when trying to decide if certain scriptures pertain to an individual or the masses.

I think I may have been born about 400 years too late. Or 130. Victoria seemed to have the right idea. I would not be surprised if her name is in the Lamb's book of life.

I would be shocked to the core if HM ERII is there.

13 August 2011 at 17:02  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ English Viking (16:50)—As a child and teenager I was a lot closer, attending church and what have you. Then I drifted. Perhaps I’ll drift back again. Other people have their spectacular Damascene conversions; I drift. I’ll read John 3. It’ll be a pleasant change from reading Qur’anic commentaries.

13 August 2011 at 21:49  
Blogger English Viking said...


Seek, and ye shall find.

14 August 2011 at 01:17  

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