Thursday, August 11, 2011

Darcus Howe tells the BBC to 'have some respect for an old West Indian negro'

104 Comments:

Blogger OldSlaughter said...

Demagogue.

Forever to be part of the problem, never the cure.

11 August 2011 at 20:52  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Cameron may have declared war on the Lawless, but lets not forget the Lawful who are against the Government.

This man is not far wrong about insurection, the Lawless youth have probably been in some way a catalyst for the rising up of those with lawful, natural born inheritance.

11 August 2011 at 21:14  
Anonymous MrJ said...

After viewing this I had the question "Why did the BBC send this out?"

And behold at the YouTube page whence the clip is sourced there is a title "London Riots. (The BBC will never replay this. Send it out)" .

I am now working hard at figuring whether our gracious Blogmaster has anything in particular he wishes to be communicated in this way, or is he merely offering bait to see what beasts will be tempted to react.

Or perhaps it was meant to lead the inquisitive to see what sort of comments the clip attracted on the YouTube page.

It could be called an unsolicited provocation, but come to think of it: That's what it's all about (innit).

11 August 2011 at 21:52  
Blogger English Viking said...

The BBC have created a monster which has turned around and bitten them in the ass. They have been paying this muppet through to nose for years, mostly to pontificate about how vile the country is which has housed him for the last 50 years.

I see they have now issued an apology for 'any offense caused'. They should have told to take a running jump.

I think it was a fair question, given that he was a member of a para-military organisation, faced trial for riot and affray and eventually got six months for assaulting a police officer.

A common thug, with an overgrown sense of his own importance.

11 August 2011 at 22:20  
Blogger Costello said...

"
I think it was a fair question, given that he was a member of a para-military organisation, faced trial for riot and affray and eventually got six months for assaulting a police officer.

A common thug, with an overgrown sense of his own importance."

Lets not forget his habit of abandoning his children - 7 by 3 different mothers - and his quite repulsive habit of trying to profit from his being an absent father by selling off documentaries on how one (or more, i forget) of his sons became criminals and how 'guilty' he felt having shirked any responsibility for them. It is people like Darcus Howe whose fecklessness and selfishness have created the many thousands of fatherless kids who took part in the riots this week.

11 August 2011 at 23:40  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oh dear. He seems a very troubled and disturbed man. I have to say he appears in genuine pain and confusion. An athentic, unpolished interview. He didn't come across to me as a man of malice.

But how wrong he is! "An insurrection of the people ... that is the nature of the historical moment"! Marxist thinking and emotional turmoil are a heady brew. He demonstrates how corrupting materialist world views really are.

There are spiritual, social, political and economic drivers behind these riots. Each world view will see them differently and weigh them differently.

Thankfully most people agree on the way to deal with what is a sympton of a deeper sickness. That is to use 'robustness' and define it as 'crime'. Maybethat's how the Brixton riots should have been seen too. I suspect Darcus Howe would disagree given this is the "historical moment" of an "insurrection of the masses of the people".

I do think we should have "some respect for an old West Indian negro keeping him away from television cameras.

Ps
Was this clip released by a mole in the Beeb?

11 August 2011 at 23:40  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo said

'Oh dear. He seems a very troubled and disturbed man. I have to say he appears in genuine pain and confusion. An athentic, unpolished interview. He didn't come across to me as a man of malice.'

I don't know if you have any personal experience of drugs, Dodo.

It is with shame that I confess that I do, long repented of now, thank God.

It is quite obvious to me that he is stoned.

12 August 2011 at 00:00  
Blogger English Viking said...

Costello,

Very well said Sir.

I wonder how well it would have gone down with Darcus if the interviewer had asked him to have a little respect for a white woman?

His tacit support for riot, and those which carry it out, is quite sickening.

12 August 2011 at 00:10  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo, there were no social, political and economic drivers behind these riots ... the mob was motivated by nothing more than selfish self-gratification. I can't believe that you are justifying the criminal activity of the past few days.

12 August 2011 at 00:21  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Paul Twigg

Where on earth have I "justified" the criminality of these wanton acts of criminal rioting?

Even a moderate understanding of history illustrates that behind the behaviours of individuals in a society lie a range of background factors. This does not excuse or condone the actions of individuals who make choices in the circumstances in which they find or place themselves.

How can you explain the Holocaust, the apparent denial of the German people and 'following of orders' and the collusion with it by the German military machine?

An intelligent State will seek to understand these drivers and influence them. An unenlightened State will doso for perverse ends. An enlightened State will do so to improve the Common Good.

12 August 2011 at 00:39  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

You forgot to mention the Catholic 'Church' when speaking of collusion during WWII.

TBF, He has not offered succour to the rioter on this thread, merely hinted that that the perpetrators cannot be solely blamed, which is obviously wrong.

12 August 2011 at 00:46  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

I'll plead the Fifth on the question of personal drug use (and anyway I never actually inhaled), but Darcus doesn't strick me as stoned. Tired, weary and confused rather than chilled and nonchalent.

Thinking aloud in front of a camera and trying to make sense of a disturbing situation is never wise. There maybe evidence of drug misuse in his ramblings as, in my experience, the thinking and clarity of frequent users is affected.

12 August 2011 at 00:48  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

He's off his tits, believe me.

12 August 2011 at 00:54  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

We'll agree to differ on the history of WW11.

An example I could have used was the Inquisition. To properly understand this an examination of the circumstances of times would be needed, of the individuals involved and a consideration of why people behaved as they did.

The same applies to the English Reformation, the Civil War, the the Witchfinder General etc. etc.

Can someone always be "solely blamed" for perpetrating a crime? If so why bother with the concept of rehabilitative Justice? Treat them all the same and do not differentiate between anyone convicted of a particular crime.

Would Jesus advocate this - really?

12 August 2011 at 00:59  
Blogger English Viking said...

I know HG doesn't like it, but he might let one go. Perhaps he is even asleep at this ungodly hour? We'll see.

BTW The singer in the vid died this year, after a Police (should I say 'Babylon'?) raid. Ironic. and Iconic.

Enjoy.

Good thing Darcus hide his ganja

12 August 2011 at 01:02  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

I see your point, in a certain way.

The only problem I have is that comparing the barbarity of the Middle ages and Renaissance with the modern day leaves me thinking that the Cat-licks haven't really progressed much.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, You know my view. I know yours.

12 August 2011 at 01:06  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

English Viking,

I owe you a public apology for my previous defence of Dodo. I think both you and Archbis Cranny had both realised what a troll this Dodo character is, but I did not take that onboard.

Today Dodo had crossed the line, in his defence of the mob (who should be crushed with all the forces the state has to command) against normal law abiding subjects of this realm and as far as I am concerned I see that I was wrong to disagree with you.

I still do not agree with you on some of your more right wing views on the racial issue, but I trust that you will accept this public apology as a fellow Christian?

Yours in Christ,Paul

12 August 2011 at 01:24  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo said :

"the Inquisition. To properly understand this an examination of the circumstances of times would be needed, of the individuals involved and a consideration of why people behaved as they did. "

OMG- the man is now trying to justify the inquisition. What planet is he on?

12 August 2011 at 01:47  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Paul Twigg said

"Today Dodo had crossed the line, in his defence of the mob (who should be crushed with all the forces the state has to command)."

You recommended turning sub-machine guns on young people and actually defended shooting an 11 year old throught the head!

In my view such action would be disproportionate and unnecessary in the circumstances and therefore immoral.

12 August 2011 at 01:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

Paul,

I hadn't even noticed that you had offended me.

Say no more, old chap. Forgiven and forgotten.

12 August 2011 at 01:49  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I rather think this old former black panther ,is remembering his youth too much.

fair enough he is of the hard left/marx strand of black politics , yes he would have lived and seen the more overt hatred of immigrants in the 60s and 70s and have formed the black power ideaology that came over from the USA.
he perhaps had his intellectual phase when labour came to power.

Of course marxism is modern and colourless as we have seen in libya , is it really an improvement on the error of colonial slavery ,is the drugs gangsta culture (modern black power) where the man still wants no home ties/responsibility to be the man , is that a residual of blackpower. Why are young black men involved in so much crime ?? and now there white copycats.

He said on news night (to white presenter) "you will never know what racism is " making case for one of his grandsons multiple stop and searches . Thats the trouble I increasingly know what racism is , when an immigrant drug gang sets up business and the kids start getting hooked .

£120mn has been siezed from Brixton from the proceeds of crime mainly drugs , does Darcus ever think racism may be forming from selling the little packets of coke and protecting the black power that is dealing in this stuff and glamourising it in the community , whilst its political face makes victim case.

12 August 2011 at 01:50  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Paul Twigg

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

To attempt to understand is not the same as trying to "justify".

The Inquisition was an unqualified evil act. At the time it was not seen as such. It was seen as necessary to rid the world of the virus of heresy. A virus that was infectious and would lead to the damnation of many souls.

The centuries of brutality and Persecution directed against the Jews were unqualified evil acts. At the time they were seen as necessary to protect Christians from them.

Why did these mindsets prove acceptable at the time and why were they acted upon by State and Church authorities?

Have you meditated on the Passion? Considered all the motives and the actions of individuals involved and the behaviour of the mob in Roman occupied Jerusalem in 32AD? And reflected on the final words of Jesus?

I ask this not to "justify" the murder of Christ.

12 August 2011 at 02:18  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

English Viking

Cat-licks or Proddys - how far have any of us moved on?

Is man any different today than yesterday? Is he better or worse? All we can hope for is that we move on and try to build a better world. One with less prejudice.

And, actually, I do believe the Roman Church is a much more rounded body today following the leadership of John Paul and Benedict.

12 August 2011 at 02:25  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

I'd take a Proddy over a Catlick a thousand times a day.

Popiness is so very dirty.


Why do you provoke me, when I thought we had made an understanding?

Have you read Danté?

If you have, you'll know that all your favourite Popes are up the Devil's arsehole.

12 August 2011 at 02:49  
Blogger Gnostic said...

An aging Marxist supporter of "insurrectionist" gangstas, looters and arsonists who made a Beeboid bimbo look and sound like a prat.

Ah, bless...

12 August 2011 at 07:23  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo said about me :"You recommended turning sub-machine guns on young people and actually defended shooting an 11 year old throught the head! "

This is not true and what I actually said was :

"when the law abiding subjects of Her Majesty's Realm are threatened by wanton acts of criminal activity, mindless violence, murder, mob rule, arson, theft, loss of property and general mischief, we must for the time being put aside any liberal instincts to allow the police to restore order to our streets. If that had meant issuing the police with sub-machine guns,water cannons, swords, pistols etc, then so be it"

If you looked closer I said 'if that had been necessary', not that it was necessary. Looking back on the posts it was you who brought in the concept of an 11 year old, not me. In fact I never once called for an 11 year old to be shoot, thug or not.

12 August 2011 at 09:12  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

PS- Your Grace I don't want to turn this thread into "he said/he said" row, so my comment above is the final one on the matter.

12 August 2011 at 09:23  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Oh your Grace!,

Why oh why are these so called "writers", "broadcasters" and "leaders" dragged out of the cuboard time and time again like old comfort blankets to be hugged and dragged around the airwaves, as if anyone is actually listening or gives a damn what they have to say, shit happens, it happened! some people are evil some aint.......end of!

12 August 2011 at 09:28  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

English Viking
You're a man easily provoked.

Danté? You're not saying this is the inspired word of God, surely? Like us all, a man of his time influenced by the conditions of his time and the perceptions of his peers.

Paul Twigg
So are you now agreeing that the State has to adopt a proportionate approach? Something you were disinclined to agree with last night.

Merely following the logic of your
argument and on being asked about the potential for shooting a child, a possibility with the use of sub-machine guns, you confirmed this would be acceptable saying the child "should" be at home under parental supervision. Indeed, all the rioters were considered by you to be vermin.

The real world is more complex than this. Not all children have the advantage of living with parents who love them and centre their lives on meeting their wellbeing and overseeing and protecting their social, physical, emotional and spiritual needs.

The answer is proportionate force to quell social disturbances and to maintain law and order. Then an analysis of what might lie behind what is surely symptomatic of a deep malaise within English society.

12 August 2011 at 09:44  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Warning:

Mr Paul Twigg somehow got into an excitable state which he attributed to Mr Dodo the Dude.

Can anyone figure out why that would happen to such a nice man?

btw: it is possible to be obtuse without being wilfully so.

I have read Dante'. Funnily enough, EV's summation of Inferno is pretty accurate (well, not so pretty, could be old-fashioned "nicely").

12 August 2011 at 09:47  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo

No I have not changed my position and you are free to state yours; but please do not continue to twist my own words as you are doing so now. You are welcome, of course, as per His Grace's bottom line, to spout your own liberal dogma if you wish, but it does not hold that I have to agree with them.

12 August 2011 at 09:58  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo, so if you have children- of whatever age- you would actually allow them to go and riot in a city centre and cause all the wanton destruction and mayhem that we have seen over the past few days?

Then you want to have "an analysis of what might lie behind what is surely symptomatic of a deep malaise within English society" You posts have answered your own question.

And you call me immoral??

12 August 2011 at 10:02  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

I agree with Dodo- we should be hugging the hoodies, which is what jesus would do and not treating them badly like that Paul Twigg is suggesting. What have they actually done, except to express themselves in a creative fashion? I agree that Paul Twigg is completly without morals- how dare he suggest that these poor people, who are on the breadline are vermin!Keep up the good work Dodo!

12 August 2011 at 10:10  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Mr J
Beneath the surface of a "nice man" sometimes lingers attitudes that are no so "nice". These need to be brought into the light and their implications explored.

Provocation in these circumstances rather than reasoned discussion, may be unhelpful in that it generates excitability.

EV may have provided an accurate summary of Danté. However, this does not mean the latter was correct and the former's glee at the damnation of souls is disturbing.

It seems EV sees himself as a member of a 'gang' who wants to mark out the territory of Truth as exclusively his own and those of his band of brothers. This is neatly summed up in his statement, "I'd take a Proddy over a Catlick a thousand times a day."

12 August 2011 at 10:18  
Anonymous Geoff, from London said...

@Dodo & Paul Twigg. Here is my suggestion:

The age of criminal responsibility here should be lower than the rest of Europe - their children are "children" for a lot longer. We have 11 and 12 year old kids drinking, doing drugs, and having intercourse. We have given our children the protective rights of adults and encouraged them to discard their childhoods. On the flip side of the coin, when they engage in destructive "adult" behaviour, we no longer treat them like adults but get out the kid-gloves. Wake up, people, we cannot have it both ways! I am sympathetic to the plight of disaffected youngsters but while Mr Miliband (et al) wants to focus our energies and resources on finding out why they are so blighted, can someone remind him that this is a democracy and that the protection of the majority from these violent thugs takes precedence over everything else. A cure for these youngsters should not be at the expense of protecting the majority, law abiding citizens. Make your next vote count, folks!

12 August 2011 at 10:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dodo really is a smug little bird isn't he? If it were his home that had been attacked, I bet he'd have had different attitude.

12 August 2011 at 10:25  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

CS@10:10

Any socialist do gooders and bleedin heart liberals who are into hugging hoodies are advised to wear a stab proof vest.

12 August 2011 at 10:37  
Anonymous Tony B said...

There does seem to be a link between poverty and these riots, in that they are happening in poor and marginalised areas. They aren't happening is Eastbourne and Haslemere, for example. It is not only in poor areas that there is "wooly left liberal thinking" or state schools, or any the very many things that have been knee-jerkingly blamed here for the rioting. It is also not only in poor and marginalised areas that there has been a loss of moral compass. Lying, expense fiddling politicians; greedy bankers etc are a few examples. For decades the rich have been getting richer and the poor poorer, a problem politicians refuse to address, presumably because they are amongst the richer and can afford to be complacent. As we descend into economic recession, there will be worse problems. The MPs are already busy absolving themselves of blame and we can't expect them to provide any solutions. Isn't it time to look around as and say that this socio-economic system, which has been sold to us as the only system, simply isn't working for the common good?

12 August 2011 at 10:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Beneath the surface of a "nice man" sometimes lingers attitudes that are no so "nice". These need to be brought into the light and their implications explored"

Yes Dodo, that is very true- of you.

12 August 2011 at 10:40  
Anonymous Christian Socialist said...

@ the minister for public entertainment- next you'll be calling for the protestors to be shot like paul twigg. Havn't you read the thread between him and Dodo- and how Dodo won hands down every time?

12 August 2011 at 10:42  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Oh the're protesters are they. Silly me for thinking they were thieving rioting arsonists.

12 August 2011 at 10:57  
Anonymous Jim Bean said...

@the Minister, careful, or you'll be accused by the left liberals of being excitable and nasty.

12 August 2011 at 11:12  
Anonymous Righteous Christian said...

They are all possessed by demons. Show no restraint. Shoot them no matter their age. Satan is ageless. They are beyond redemption. It's for the good of the rest of us who are law abiding.

12 August 2011 at 12:32  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Anonymous (who are you?)
@10:25 and 10:40

That's the point of an impartial State isn't it? Balance can sometimes leave us when we we are victims of a crime or in a state of shock. We fall back on baser instincts. Perhaps we should listen to the words of men such as Mr Tariq Jahan.

I've never been accussed of being "nice" before and don't pretend to be, unlike some.

Nice? Urrgghhh!

12 August 2011 at 12:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Me thinks some people are talking to themselves on here. Either that or they're displaying the clear signs of a multiple-personality disorder.

12 August 2011 at 12:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon- Are you suggesting that Paul Twigg and Dodo are really one and the same person? If so what a jolly clever person he is!

12 August 2011 at 12:57  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon - that never occurred to me. They were not the ones I had in mind. Do you think it's possible?

12 August 2011 at 13:02  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Anon if it makes you feel better then I can quite happily confirm that I am not Dodo. I am sure that he would recoil in horror at such a thought.

12 August 2011 at 13:02  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

I have to admit that the 12.32 looks like a sarcastic wind up, but if fairness to 'nice' Mr Dodo, I don't think he would stoop to that.

12 August 2011 at 13:05  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Although the test is if Dodo doesn't have a hissy fit at the post of 12.32, then we'll know it is him.

12 August 2011 at 13:06  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon- which ones did you have in mind and who do you think they were?

I am actually more convinced that Dodo and Paul Twigg are the same person. I used to think Viking and Dodo were also the same person too?

I think Dodo left the post at 12.32pm, which is why he didn't reply to it, like he does with other posters he disagrees with.

This detective work is cool!

12 August 2011 at 13:09  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Paul Twigg

I thought you'd made you're last contribution to this discussion?

Of course I would not permit my children to participate in wanton acts of criminality. That's the point.

My children were raised within a stable marriage (32 years and counting). Each was raised to work hard, to give to others and to society and to respect one another. I too had the benefit of a Christian and loving upbringing by parents who had little in the way of material wealth.

We live in a different world today and the foundations of our society are being undermined. You do not have to be a left-wing, liberal sociologist to see this!

To simply repress and shoot individual rioters will not solve this or address the causes which are surely more than individual responsibility?

I called your position immoral, not you. There is a difference.

12 August 2011 at 13:14  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Anon

I've learned not to respond to posts that are clearly intended to provoke.

Am I Paul Twigg? Am I English Viking? Certainly both are worthy of engagement. What's also clear is that both present prejudiced and ill-informed opinion against Roman Catholicism. Mr Twigg only recently revealed this. I am clearly a Catholic.

I'll leave you to continue with your investigations - do keep 'me' (or is it 'us'?) posted, please.

12 August 2011 at 13:22  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12 August 2011 at 13:27  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

"What's also clear is that both present prejudiced and ill-informed opinion against Roman Catholicism. Mr Twigg only recently revealed this. I am clearly a Catholic."

What a load of utter tripe, Dodo. My disagreement was with you not with you faith, although it was you who was justifying the inquisition etc and not me- if not liking the inquisition makes me anti-catholic.... It is, however, quite a poor fallback position.

12 August 2011 at 13:33  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo

Why is it that when you start to loose an argument your default position is to accuse the person you are debating with as being anti-catholic?

You did this with the Archbishop several times and each time you came across as being a bit of a paraonid tit.

A card, which I have to say just won't work, for I actually lived for 3 years with 2 Roman Catholics (plus 1 atheist, 2 Jews and 1 other Anglican, and thus had the pleasure of learning a lot about their faith structures).

If I am so Anti- Roman- Catholic, why I have I attended the service of Mass on several occasions?

I do of course have theological and moral problems with the Church of Rome, but this makes me no less anti-catholic than any other Anglican (for I would of course be Roman Catholic if I thought it was that wonderful).

Get real, my fine fowl. We disagree, but please do something better than the fall back of he's anti-catholic.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

12 August 2011 at 13:42  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Dodo

To simply repress and shoot individual rioters will not solve this or address the causes which are surely more than individual responsibility?

And there you have it. "The riots are an expression of the victimization of the rioters. It's not really all their fault. It's the external conditions to which they have been subjected." Yes, Dodo, this is in fact all about 'individual responsibility.' There is no excuse for looting and burning and killing - and please don't tell me about some arsonist's difficult childhood. Once he tosses a Molotov Cocktail into a car, I don't care anymore.

So if you saw that man about to throw said bomb into a building, would you:

1) Shoot him on sight.

2) Let him burn the building in hopes that those who might be in the building will get out all right.

Just wondering.

carl

12 August 2011 at 13:57  
Anonymous Pastor Jim Bucker III said...

Carl

Knowing Dodo he would probably go out of his way to let the bomber into the building and then do anything he could to stop you from shooting him- saying it all needs to be proportional and we just don't do things like that in the UK. This would then be followed by attacking you for being anti-catholic because you disagreed with his world view.

12 August 2011 at 14:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is interesting that Dodo didn't totally deny that he was Paul Twigg or Viking. Could he also be Carl Jacobs? Dodo as a master of disguise?

12 August 2011 at 14:36  
Anonymous Jewish Bag Lady said...

As usual Carl Jacobs comes up with the calvary! I rather suspect that Dodo lives no-where near any of the places that saw the riots, so can pontificate about hugging the hoodies, as he sits back and drinks his cocktails.

PS- I have decided that after reading some of Dodo's posts he is anti-Jewish and does nothing but present prejudiced and ill-informed opinion against Jews. Mr Dodo only recently revealed this. I am clearly a Jew.

12 August 2011 at 14:45  
Anonymous Marcus Scarman said...

I feel sorry for Dodo- so many anti-catholic sentiments on this blog, it is beyond belief! And as for Paul Twigg's suggestion of shooting the protestors, well, it is just beyond belief. As Dodo said what harm did they actually cause? Not enough to justify their murder surely! As Dodo said imoral.

12 August 2011 at 15:05  
Anonymous Torquemada said...

Dodo, have no fear.

There is one holy Catholic and apostolic church, outside of which there Is NO SALVATION ... it is altogether NECESSARY FOR SALVATION for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.' (“infallible papal bull, Unam Sanctam) Vatican II declared: ... this holy Council teaches ... that the church .. Is NECESSARY FOR SALVATION.” (VATICAN COUNCIL II, Costello Publishing, Austin Flannery, O.P., General Editor, Vol 1, pp. 364-365)

12 August 2011 at 15:22  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

So what is this, let's all gang up and get Dodo?.
I'll admit that he and I have had our differences, but this childish attack on him is devolving His Graces blog and comments to the level of an infants school playground.


Jack.

12 August 2011 at 16:04  
Blogger English Viking said...

NO, NO, NO!

How could anybody think I had soiled myself with the Roman whore?

I AM NOT DODO!

Nor anybody else for that matter.

We've had this tosh before, and HG has confirmed that I do not sock puppet, ever.

12 August 2011 at 16:31  
Anonymous Divine Brown said...

Jack Flash, prey tell who is being childish and where is the attack upon Dodo? I can't see it myself.

12 August 2011 at 16:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the only person left to confirm that he isn't sock puppeting is Dodo himself. Come on old bird where are you?!

12 August 2011 at 16:40  
Anonymous Michael Wilkinson said...

jack flash- It is perfectly OK for him to spread lies and smears then is it?!? Letting the smug bird get away with it eh? I don't call that being childish!

12 August 2011 at 16:45  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Well English Viking's confirmed that he's not Dodo. I have done so as well. That just leaves Dodo to confirm. Although why he didn't do so earlier on is beyond me.

12 August 2011 at 16:55  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

Ladies and gentlemen, your responses speak for themselves.
Dodo and I have crossed swords in the past and will without doubt do so again in the future.
I merely point out that one person being singled out for ridicule and winding up by the many, seems grossly unfair, and lowers the tone of H.G's Blog.

Jack.

12 August 2011 at 17:11  
Anonymous Sock Puppet Jnr said...

So much nonsense, where does one begin?

In truth, I cannot be bothered but let me say I have never sought to justify the rioting and looting. All I've argued against is using guns and bullets on the streets of England when it was demonstrably unnecessary.

It's not my practice to "hug hoodies". There's been a lot of empty talk on here about the decline of Christian values and family life being behind these events. Yet, we're the generation responsible and the best we can come up with is repression and brute force. Used proportionately, force is fine in the immediate situation of a riot but is not a long term solution.

Mr Twigg, I never attempted to justify the Inquisition. On the contrary I called it an unqualified evil. Your ignorance about the sphere of Papal authority and suggestion Catholics have to follow the social teachings of Rome, I took to be an attack on my Church. At best it was a backhanded swipe at my views, suggesting I had no right to think for myself as a Catholic. And your descent into personal abuse is unbecoming. Tit is such a 'nasty' word. Would you permit one of your children to use it?

Oh, Paul Twigg, some of my best friends are black, white, Catholic etc.etc. So what?

As for the rest! Well, why would people want to partially present and misrepresent Roman teachings e.g 'Torquemada', or misinterpret my views, e.g 'Christian Socialist'?

At least English Viking is honest and open - nasty opinions but he doesn't attempt to hide them behind 'niceness'.

12 August 2011 at 17:18  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Ps

The above was me for the undiscerning out there!

12 August 2011 at 17:19  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo

I posted to you at 13.42 and that was that. I cannot be held responsible for the comments of others.

I apologise for calling you a paranoid tit. But I still think you should not revert to the line everyone that is against you is anti-catholic, try giving people positive reasons to be Roman Catholics.

As I said to you I am not anti-catholic, although obviously if I could agree to everything that your Church did, I would in fact be a Catholic and not an Anglican.

(You might recall that a few months ago I spent some considerable time defending you on this blog against the attacks of others- do you not recall I was being called the 'anti christ' as a result, although you never saw it fit to sick your neck out foe me did you Dodo?).

I have clarified my position in the 13.42 post- but it seems to me you allow no room for discussion on some of the merits,rights and wrongs of the Catholic Church and instead seem to have a view that you either are with me or against me viz the catholic Church and are like a red flag at a bull the moment anyone but you brings it up. (hence my paranoid tit comment).

If I have misrepresented catholic teaching, you could of course have corrected me, provided chapter and verse and I would have apologised to you. But you did not do so and almost implied that I was right when you said "you were free to ignore" it.

I think you have gone into overdrive with your post at 17.18pm, in so much that what you think is me is actually the work of another person or persons,but consider that I am posting as Paul Twigg and not as a Viking and not as a long dead bird. I don't know your real name and yet you know mine. Which of us is therefore more honest in terms of identity?

I trust that this reply settles this matter and I would trust that we walk away from this agreeing to disagree, till we clash swords again. Or not.

12 August 2011 at 17:52  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

One unhappy negro and family. It might be worth it in the long run to offer these types repatriation to the West Indies, and continue to pay them their UK unemployment benefit for a year to start them off...

(Did anyone notice if Mr Howe had new trainers on ?)

12 August 2011 at 18:06  
Anonymous Sock Puppet Jnr said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12 August 2011 at 18:17  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Paul Twigg

I have never doubted your integrity and do recall the appalling events of the recent past when a series of hateful, malicious posts were directed against you. I have to come to expect this and should have thanked you at the time for defending me. I do so now.

Of course I do not believe you post incognito and my latter remarks were not directed towards you. I have my suspicions about the source of some.

We disagree on matters of a specific political response to the London riots. We disgree passionately about the degree of force that would have been justified.

Catholic teaching on matters of social justice is not authorative or binding although it is perhaps one of the areas where protestant individualism and Catholicism differ.

In my opinion, the series of of encyclicals from Rerum Novarum in 1891 onwards represent deep, thoughtful Christian principles. It is distinctive and critical of social and political ideologies of the left and of the right. These letters are worthy of study.

However, as a Roman Catholic I am not bound to accept them. If you want to label my politics 'Christian Democrat'.
would come closest.

12 August 2011 at 18:26  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12 August 2011 at 18:28  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

I feel compelled to repeat what I said once before. Dodo is one of the more reasonable commenters on this board. Yes, he is a little too liberal which means that his view of human nature is too optimistic by (lots more than) half. Even so, reasonable minds can disagree. And, yes, he is a Roman Catholic, but that just provides opportunities for Protestants to beat him like a rug in theological debate.

But a troll? Not even close. An anti-semite? I have seen no evidence of it.

For what my opinion is worth.

carl

12 August 2011 at 18:37  
Anonymous Sock Puppet Snr said...

You wait 'til I get you home Jnr!

How many times must I beat it into you that you do not use foul language.

And where were you earlier in the week?

12 August 2011 at 19:05  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

carl jacobs

Thank you.

Do I have a liberal view about human nature? This blog is certainly opening my eyes to the inherent perversity of mankind!

Maybe I am optimistic. One reason is that all of us are born in the image of God and all of us are children of God. I'm sure He sees the best in us too.

I often reflect on the Parable of the Sower. This is open to many understandings and a Protestant may well see it differently to a Roman Catholic.

To me, I think one of its meanings is that the soil where the message of God is given and received by Grace, can be prepared, enriched and kept free from stones and weeds.

A healthy family, community and society will maximise the opportunities and potential for God's message to enter people's hearts. That's why I believe social justice is so critical. Not just for it's own sake, but also because that's the way God intends to it be and it opens people to His saving Grace.

Children raised without love in fragmented, dysfunctional families, communities where no one cares about their neigbour and societies run on unfettered greed and mass consumption, will corrupt individuals.

Isn't that the message of The Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah? Evil reinforces itself. Christ has come and the Spirit of God is waiting, knocking at the door of each of us. The Kingdom is here amongst us.

So yes, I'm optimistic for all individuals. This is not to deny original sin and the inclination to sin within us all. Left unaddressed the potentialfor sin will grow. However, all Christians have to show love, set an example and walk the talk.

12 August 2011 at 21:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Theodore Dalrymple has written an excellent article about the real reasons behind the riots.

Damo

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/7157308/its-fun-to-smash-things.thtml

12 August 2011 at 21:42  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

Carl

I should also add that there are 'retobates' amongst us and people who cause misery, pain and inflict emotional, physical and spiritual harm on others.

These people need to be seperated from society, some for a time and some indefinately for the good of others and sometimes for their own good too.

Any State has to defend its citizens from evil and has a God given right and obligation to do so. But man's justice must aspire to be reasonable and not only punish but offer the chance to reform. As we learm more about people as social and individual beings and how sinful inclinations can be combatted, this knowledge must be used applied judiciously and not just for retribution.

12 August 2011 at 21:47  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Dodo

But man's justice must aspire to be reasonable and not only punish but offer the chance to reform.

No, it absolutely does not have to offer a chance at reform. It is the purpose of the state to impose vicarious retribution in the place of the victim. Reform is not the first priority. Punishment is the first priority, and some crimes are worthy of permanent punishment. Some crimes are worthy of the ultimate punishment. This models the ultimate punishment that God will impose for sin, and teaches men that tomorrow is not always available for repentance.

carl

12 August 2011 at 22:38  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Dodo

Oh, btw. About all that "Alice in Wonderland" optimism stuff. To live in the real world is to realize that the glass is half-empty, cracked, leaking, and probably poisoned with arsenic.

carl

12 August 2011 at 22:43  
Blogger English Viking said...

Carl Jacobs is obviously mentally ill.

Poor thing.

12 August 2011 at 23:33  
Blogger The Worker said...

Is the State failing its citizens in Britain? Has the path taken by us since WW2 created a beast?

The central messages from the writings of Theodore Dalrymple argue that it most certainly has.

He presents a bleak picture that calls for a dismantling of State welfare institutions and a tougher approach to crime.

He offers a harsh message to politicians.

Nihilistic, decadent and self-destructive behaviour arises in those who do not know how to live.
The smoothing over of this behaviour or treating such people as 'needy' is, in reality, a form of moral and social indifference. Someone has to patiently and with understanding tell them that they have to live differently and show them how.

Poverty does not explain or excuse aggressive, criminal and self-destructive behaviour. People can live with dignity and decency in extreme poverty. A sense of obligation towards others has been replaced by "rights" and a sense of entitlement. This leads to resentment as these "rights" become "violated" by parents, authorities, bureaucracies and others.

The nature of man is disregarded
as a root cause of problems and replaced by an insipid sentimentality.

The Welfare State diminishes personal responsibility and makes people dependent on institutions creating an underclass.

Moral and cultural relativism compound the problems. The decline of civilised behaviour, of good manners, self-restraint, modesty, zeal, humility, irony and detachment further adds to the ruination of social and personal life.

The words of a modern day prophet or a right wing zealot?

12 August 2011 at 23:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

English Viking

Your evidence and qualifications for your diagnosis of carl jacobs as mentally ill?

Thinking Dodo is one of the more "reasonable commentators" here? His opinions on the purposes of justice and/or stance on capital punishment?

Are you carl jacobs?

13 August 2011 at 00:03  
Blogger English Viking said...

Anon: 00:03

Get a moniker, else get lost.

Am I Carl? Are you mad?

My evidence is that he spouts shite, in some kind of delusional stupor, as though it were fact.

I've never really been big on qualifications. I hear Hitler had a degree.

So what?

13 August 2011 at 00:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My English Viking
My diagnosis is that you could be suffering from a delusional disorder.

You speak as if you speak like a noble savage waging a Crusade for Christ. You show possible signs of egomania, a feeling you have God given insights. There is evidence too of mood swings. All this is accompanied by a hint of possible narcissism.

Your prognosis is not good unless you acquire some humility and show respect and politeness towards others. Practice restraint and present your views rather than your conclusions. Consider the stance of others and acknowledge their value.

This is an initial assessment and I would advise a full consultation with a suitably qualified consultant local to you in Norway.

13 August 2011 at 00:41  
Blogger English Viking said...

Anon,

You betray the fact that you are not a newcomer by knowing that I am in a foreign land.

That I am a barbarian, I do not deny. A savage? never.

Humility and respect? For lies? And the liars which spew them?

Never.

I will look for you on the field.

That is your first, last and only warning.

13 August 2011 at 01:20  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

"It is the purpose of the state to impose vicarious retribution in the place of the victim ... This models the ultimate punishment that God will impose for sin ..."

What a misunderstanding of God's Justice, Mercy and Compassion. If God was as you suggest all of man would already have been eternally condemned.

The message of the New Covenant, foreshadowed in the Old, is that God is ever ready to forgive and does not exact retribution. He punishes in this life to bring about change in order that we may be with Him eternally.

Christ was the vicarious victim who atoned and satisfied the need for retribution. You seem to have turned this on its head.

The Final Judgement will be one of pure Justice and all the qualities that comprise this. Man cannot possibily achieve this but must constantly strive to.

If as individuals we are damned, God forgive, it will not be to pay a penalty for sin but because we refused to accept the Sacrifice made on our behalf that forgave all sin.

13 August 2011 at 01:30  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Worker (12 August 2011 23:36)

IG goes for 'prophet' and IG isn't a zealot

13 August 2011 at 01:44  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo speaks truth, at least on this matter.

Cling to the Christ.

There is nothing else.

13 August 2011 at 01:58  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Dodo

The message of the New Covenant, foreshadowed in the Old, is that God is ever ready to forgive and does not exact retribution.

Umm ...no. He is not ever ready to forgive. There comes a point when man is beyond repentance & forgiveness. It's called hell. The reality of permanent punishment in this life foreshadows the reality of permanent punishment in the next life. There is no 'reform' component in hell. There is only the ever-present reality of God's wrath.

And, yes, God will exact retribution for each and every sin. It is either payed for in the person of Christ on the Cross, or it imposed on the sinner in Hell.

Christ was the vicarious victim who atoned and satisfied the need for retribution. You seem to have turned this on its head.

He atoned for the sins of the Elect. He did not atone for the sins of every man. Otherwise God would have no basis for condemnation. Christ did not potentially save every man on the Cross only to wait nervously to see which of those men would 'accept the offering." The Lord Jesus actually saved men. He actually propitiated the wrath of God. To say He propitiated the wrath of all men is to say that God is no longer angry about sin and that there is no reason for any further judgment. Men are not eternally condemned for "refusing to accept the sacrifice." They are condemned because they have violated the law.

He punishes in this life to bring about change in order that we may be with Him eternally.

Yes, He does - for the Elect. Not every man can say "Abba Father!" Not every man has been adopted.

The Final Judgement will be one of pure Justice and all the qualities that comprise this. Man cannot possibily achieve this but must constantly strive to.

No, the final judgment has nothing to do with "the qualities that comprise pure justice." God does not forensically examine us to see if we have achieved the status of 'Just.' He declares us just based upon the work of Christ. We either possess the alien righteousness of Christ or we don't. We can never be righteous in and of ourselves. We will always possess a righteousness that is alien to us. If we do not possess that alien righteousness, then all of our sins remain before God at the final judgment, and those sins are the basis of our just condemnation.

carl

13 August 2011 at 05:02  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

A few missing critical words...

"To say He propitiated the wrath of God against all men is to say that God is no longer angry about sin and that there is no reason for any further judgment."

carl

13 August 2011 at 05:07  
Blogger len said...

Seems to be some very mixed up theology going on here.

'There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.' (Romans 8:1 , which is a fact!.)

And for those who are not in Christ Jesus? Jesus spoke more about hell than all the writers of Scripture. 13% of the New Testament is on Judgment and hell, and half of the parables.

Gods plan for the salvation of mankind is totally IN Christ Jesus outside of Jesus there is nothing, no salvation only condemnation,does God condemn us? , no we condemn ourselves by rejecting Jesus Christ.

Just a brief glimpse through the Book of Revelation will see that God will judge all unrighteousness.

Righteousness is only found in those who are IN Christ Jesus, our own righteousness(self righteousness)is abhorrent to God.

Being a 'churchgoer', belonging to a denomination(even the 'right one') ,being a 'good person,having the 'right' theology,none of these things will save us only Christ will save us, salvation is IN Christ.

13 August 2011 at 10:07  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

carl jacobs

I take it you see yourself as one of the 'Elect'.

All sin of all men has been fully paid for. Our choice is whether to accept that forgiveness, surely? And our 'choice' is limited and not all can respond in equal measure to God's saving grace, can they?

What of people who through the brutal circumstances of their lives become so dehumanised they cannot respond to the call of the Spirit? Damned? Or those denied access to the message of love who have not yet heard of Christ? Damned? All condemned by a God who wants to exact revenge? The sacrifice of Christ ineffective for them because they are not 'Elect'?

And because some are not 'Elect', and will never be, it's okay to execute them or imprison them for life without any attempts to reform them? They are beyond hope of salvation - remove them.

I expect plenty of scriptural quotes can be used to support your ideas of social justice and your theology. I just think God is perhaps above our limited and human concepts of 'justice'.

13 August 2011 at 14:25  
Blogger len said...

I believe God has foreknowledge of those who will accept His offer of salvation.
Salvation is open to all but will all accept?.....the answer unfortunately is no.
God desires that no one will perish that is why the Gospel must be presented to all.

It is obvious even on this Blog that the Gospel has been presented to people but they consistently reject it.
God will not interfere with peoples free will and I believe the Holy Spirit is constantly drawing people to Christ but if they reject Him what else can He do?.

13 August 2011 at 18:40  
Blogger Dodo the "Troll" said...

len
I completely agree.

13 August 2011 at 23:33  
Blogger English Viking said...

Len,

So do I.

14 August 2011 at 00:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you really think that these black punks have the connections and power to bring in the drugs and guns?

14 August 2011 at 02:10  
Blogger Steven said...

The man shot: Mark Duggan was well known to the police as a crack-dealing, gun-toting scumbag and his family wanted justice for what happened to him? Justice was already served when he was shot dead!
Now we get this racist anti-white ex-black-panther called Darcus Howe trying to convince everyone that black violence is a racial struggle against the oppressive white man. The days of slavery are over and now in Britain ethnic minorities are treated far better than the indigenous population, this is obvious as Britain is stepped on left right and centre because of its soft touch human rights over common sense approach.
Furthermore, Darcus Howe is an ex-con who assaulted a police officer and took part in the Brixton riots. He has seven children over three marriages and a son he neglected completely that turned into a criminal. The questions asked of him during the BBC interview by Fiona Armstrong were legitimate and he only took offense because the answers wouldn’t match his blame the white man agenda. The fact that the BBC had to apologise to someone who was so blatantly making excuses for outright lawlessness and violence is inexcusable and totally outrageous. This trouble causing black is the kind of mentality that was the root cause of the conflicts we have seen in Britain and anyone with the tiniest bit of moral fibre and national pride should ask for his deportation.

14 August 2011 at 14:41  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Len: "God will not interfere with peoples free will and I believe the Holy Spirit is constantly drawing people to Christ but if they reject Him what else can He do?."

If he shows to me that he exists then I'd be happy to take up the offer. That seems very reasonable to me and it's surely no effort to something that is holding together the whole of space and time.

When I am given a proper choice, that is a matter of free will. Having to make a leap of faith at the start is not free will. It is the opposite in some ways.

The Israelites were apparently shown marvels but rather depressingly made the wrong decision over and over again when the opportunity to do so arose. Now that was proper free will.

15 August 2011 at 21:25  
Blogger len said...

Danjo, 'If he shows to me that he exists then I'd be happy to take up the offer'.

He did.Jesus fulfilled every prophesy regarding His first appearance even to the smallest detail.

'The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognise him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.(John 1 9-14)

Jesus came to give Life, His Life to those who would accept Him.
(This has nothing to do with 'religion'but God imparting Life,His Life, into those who are dead, spiritually dead)

16 August 2011 at 08:22  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"He did.Jesus fulfilled every prophesy regarding His first appearance even to the smallest detail."

Forgive me for being suspicious but the NT writers wrote their stuff knowing the OT prophesies intimately. They're not fact-based descriptions are they? They're careful and deliberate narratives.

We see this in art, and especially paintings. They're commissioned by people who want to present a story of themselves irrespective of the reality. They're composed in very specific ways and contain specific imagery and devices to suggest what the person wants to portray.

What I'd like is a visitation or revelation in my lifetime, please. Or preferably something that lots of people collectively experience.

16 August 2011 at 18:23  

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