Sunday, August 07, 2011

Tottenham riots and those evil Tory policies

Well, what do you expect when you've got a Tory-led Government imposing draconian cuts the likes of which Margaret Thatcher could only dream about? What do you expect when they're cutting front-line policing; slashing welfare for the most vulnerable; driving the poor out of their homes; and stoking racial tension with talk of capping immigration? These right-wing, capitalist Tory policies lead to division and alienation, you see. That's why the disenfranchised riot. But it really ought to come as no surprise when these evil Tories laud the likes of Enoch Powell and preach the language of the BNP, and write the propaganda of the EDL. Tories just never take responsibility for the consequences of their party’s disastrous policies. It's just simple and straightforward cause and effect, as any enlightened, reasonable and rational Socialist will tell you.

149 Comments:

Blogger Span Ows said...

Chris Williamson surely shows what a partisan plonker he is. I have read elsewhere comments like "Riots are enevitable" due to the cuts.

7 August 2011 at 11:28  
Anonymous judith said...

The man shot dead was a very well-known gangster - you live by the gun, you die by the gun, QED.

7 August 2011 at 11:40  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I see the police are treading very lightly in the news with a view to calming 'the community' and so on.

7 August 2011 at 12:01  
Blogger Gnostic said...

The leftists don't seem to be concerned about why Duggan was carrying an illegal firearm in the first place. They are fixated on the police killing the bugger.

Duggan was an armed and violent criminal. I won't be mourning his loss. I certainly won't be rioting over it.

7 August 2011 at 12:02  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

This Guardian video features Haringey teenagers discussing the recent closure of most of their youth clubs. The final speaker predicts riots.

7 August 2011 at 12:05  
Anonymous Berni Grant said...

Apparently he`s predicted ten of the last two riots in Tottenham...

7 August 2011 at 12:23  
Anonymous Ayatollah Khomeini said...

I blame the Joooooooz.

7 August 2011 at 12:25  
Anonymous Oswin said...

It's the fault of white Christian racists like me, just ask Dodo and Stan.

7 August 2011 at 12:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was da jooooz.See em running on tv

7 August 2011 at 13:17  
Blogger bwims said...

It's a pity they didn't shoot his rioting friends too. Whatever happened to the riot act?

7 August 2011 at 13:23  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

It's got little to do with the current Tories and cuts, its more the results of successive labour government’s lack of controls on immigration over a long period of time, their dumbing down of education and lack of discipline in the schools.

Tottenham has for decades been rundown dive of a place to live blighted by drug gangs and crime. It's nickname in the nineties was “Nam” after the war torn Vietnam. It's crammed with third world immigrants and their gun and knife culture. In fact if the Tories would get back to being proper Tories things might improve.

7 August 2011 at 14:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People get pissed off and burn their own neighborhood...Let'em burn and see how they like it...

7 August 2011 at 14:12  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

The Inspector General believes that the time has come for plastic bullets and rubber baton rounds.

He wishes there was an alternative to this strategy, but there isn't...

7 August 2011 at 14:26  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

Rubber bullets and baton rounds? Issue the police with gatling guns, unlimited ammunition and orders to shoot all leftwing new reporters and "libertarian" lawyers who attempt to intervene.

Anyone wearing any sort of mask is clearly intent on breaking the law. Shoot forst and ask the intent later.

7 August 2011 at 14:29  
Blogger English Viking said...

OoIG,

The Viking believes that the time has come for dum-dum bullets.

If you import vast numbers of third world criminals, don't be surprised when your country turns all third world itself.

7 August 2011 at 14:32  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Yes Viking

Future coloured immigrants on their way to the UK "attracted by the UK way of life" must be disappointed when they arrive at places like Tottenham - to find themselves in a worse mire than they left behind !

7 August 2011 at 14:39  
Anonymous non mouse said...

I don't know why people keep promoting such places to 3rd world status! They've been at least 5th world for decades.

As for the 'fire that would be great,' one hopes it might be somewhat cleansing. However, the wonders of firefighting technology will undoubtedly help both rats and their fleas to escape, to spread their contagion....

7 August 2011 at 15:02  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Its like a scene from the Blitz but in technicolor. The appalling result of mindless anarchy mixed with opportunist criminality in a gang culture bent on retaliation for the loss of one of its own.

Mass immigration, overcrowding, family breakdown and a education system not fit for purpose has left a bunch of feral kids to run wild in a moral vacuum.

7 August 2011 at 15:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The IG wonders if the 'UK Borders and Immigration Agency' could benefit from having their own Inspector General - the public's confidence in their ability is lacking.

IG cannot believe all who were invloved were legally entitled to be here. How about a 'mass shakedown' in Tottenham. Might put them off from doing it again...

7 August 2011 at 15:24  
Anonymous mikeruff said...

England's riches come from colonizing the third world! The Caribbean,Hong Kong, North America, Iran(BP, isnt that a major fixture in the U.K.'s economic outlook?), and many other places. Little tiny country with wealth from exploiting the same immigrants you Brits detest!

7 August 2011 at 15:54  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr mikeruff

The Inspector General notes your attempt at an apology for the rioters...

7 August 2011 at 15:58  
Anonymous mikeruff said...

so what if he was a well known gangster. It's well known corporate, political, and other types of gangsters with blood on their hands. Magna Carta, ever heard of that?

7 August 2011 at 16:02  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr mikeruff

Your PC wasn't recently obtained from the Tottenham area by any chance ??

7 August 2011 at 16:05  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

right wing and capitalists are not real bed fellows are they.

Capitalists like Globalisation, they enjoy moving companies oversees, why the left wing floods us with the work shy no hopers from abroad, who turn to crime for a living.

Coz me aint workin for da whitey!

7 August 2011 at 16:09  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin said...
"It's the fault of white Christian racists like me, just ask Dodo and Stan."

Is that an admission that you are a white Christian racist?

No, you're not at fault for this one. The 'Minister for Public Enlightenment' comes close when he says:

"Mass immigration, overcrowding, family breakdown and a education system not fit for purpose has left a bunch of feral kids to run wild in a moral vacuum."

I disagree with the first proposed cause but not the others. Were the rioters immigrants or third and fourth generation British citizens?

We should maybe add that any society that has vast differences in wealth is likely to face consequences. This is not a 'socialist' notion, by the way, there is evidence that hugh socio-economic divides are toxic.

7 August 2011 at 16:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nah, it was caused by Tottingham havin' a crap football team.

7 August 2011 at 16:39  
Blogger ggeoff said...

Wasn't the last riot over the death of a black mother during a police raid on her house to arrest her criminal son? She had a heart attack, probably because she was obese, but it was the police that got the blame.

A significant section of that community can't think rationally. The BBC reported that a man was shot after a shooting incident in which a policman was shot in the chest, luckily he was saved because the bullet hit his radio. The man was shot dead. Sounds like the police should have shot first. That is the BBC's report, which might be incorrect. But there will be an independent enquiry. The Tottenham black community must have heard the news on the BBC. So why did some sections of that community react in that way? Probably Because they cannot think rationally. David Lammy Tottenham's MP can, and says what happened was nonsense. I bet those who took part in the riot don't make anything, can't make anything and don't want to make anything. I feel sorry for the majority of the people who live in Tottenham and Wood Green who are sensible hard working people.

7 August 2011 at 16:42  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

ggeoff "A significant section of that community can't think rationally."

When you're discussing black immigrant IQ, you are looking at around 90. (UK Average is 103). For IQs below 85, there is no point sending the individual to college. Impossible to obtain any benefit at that level of mental ability...

7 August 2011 at 16:52  
Blogger ggeoff said...

@Office of Inspector General

"When you're discussing black immigrant IQ, you are looking at around 90. (UK Average is 103). For IQs below 85, there is no point sending the individual to college. Impossible to obtain any benefit at that level of mental ability..."

Maybe so, but immigrants don't usually riot they tend to conform to the new country. I would have thought that in this case the people who took part were born here, as were their parents, and expect to be rich and wealthy without making the effort that most people have to make. We hear about complaints, that the police arrested someone and then after a time they were released without charge. Faulty reasoning processes that news as being they shouldn't have been arrested as they were innocent of the crime. Rather than there was not enough evidence to charge them or alternatively they were innocent.

7 August 2011 at 17:12  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Office of Inspector General said...

When you're discussing black immigrant IQ, you are looking at around 90. (UK Average is 103).

So have we reached the "Black people are mentally inferior" part of the thread, then?

carl

7 August 2011 at 17:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

ggeoff

The Minister for Public Enlightenment's earlier observation...

"...gang culture bent on retaliation for the loss of one of its own."

Inspector General suggests that this x low IQ = Rioting

7 August 2011 at 17:29  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr carl jacobs

Yes, you've made an interesting connection, but beware - this pragmatic observation doesn't go down too well. Best keep it to yourself eh...

7 August 2011 at 17:34  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

But they are NOT 'black immigrants'! The majority are black British youth whose parents, grandparents and great grandparents have lived here as British citizens.

Any evidence for the IQ differential between white and black people? I very much doubt it. Just purile racist nonsense.

Interestingly, I haven't seen any Muslims in the ranks of the rioters.

7 August 2011 at 17:39  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Dodo the Dude (17:39)—Any evidence for the IQ differential between white and black people?

Europe and Africa.

7 August 2011 at 17:42  
Anonymous not a machine said...

I was begining to get my seen this before view , yes things have changed since 86 , we now have a man in his 20s riding around in a taxi with a gun down his sock , I am sure that wasnt goin on the 80s . David lammys friday night warning has not been rebroadcast , in part because before the peacful bit occured , he clearly had heard somthing else could happen , unless I misunderstood , what he meant by "trouble".
Gun incident takes place , then the process of law takes place , it doesnt mean social network fellow comrades and anarchists from miles around for mass riot and looting .

Things perhaps havent changed since 86 , as everytime one of there council leaders speaks its still as though running a communist state in revolution, describing these people as angry over death of person , does a disservice to the understanding of grief and grieving , or are we to think that in this dead mans wake , he would have wanted all of his gang to have a looted widescreen TV and a bottle of spirits , around his highstreet and favourite bus going up in smoke.

The left call them sensative issues , what is gang drugs and crime ? an issue , a problem , a trouble , why is it not just criminal activity in these london socialist boroughs .If the kids riot when someone carrying an illegal firearm gets shot , which side of the law do they support , the cool fly version or that one that most of us would like to live in , namely free from drug gangs .

7 August 2011 at 17:47  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Office of Inspector General said...

Yes, you've made an interesting connection

Silly me. And here I was thinking that the results perhaps ... just perhaps, mind you ... might be best explained by the problems of cross-cultural IQ testing, and not by something as arbitrary as race. I have so much to learn.

I guess I shall go rethink how much damage was done to the pristine Anglo-Saxon American bloodline from all that German & Irish immigration in the mid-nineteenth century. And, my God, the immigration from SE Europe in the 20th Century. The destruction must have been incalculable. And I dare not speak of those black slave. How did they ever become citizens? Now we are overrun by Mexicans. Oh, who will save us from this body of death? No wonder we are a mongrelized nation. It's all in the blood, after all.

Where have I heard that before?

carl

7 August 2011 at 17:47  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo, you pedant. Suggest you do a bit of research on IQ, a fascinating subject. For example, average Chinese IQ is above average UK IQ. IG can't remember then rioting since the Boxer rebellion.

As for Asian Muslims, they come in at about 100. However, their cultural habit of inter family marriage is not fully understood on IQ.(A polite way of saying some of them are quite clearly barking, but we don't know why).

7 August 2011 at 17:50  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Agreed carl jacobs, silly you...

7 August 2011 at 17:53  
Anonymous Mike said...

You really are ignorant if you think the Tories are responsible for these riots. The events in Tottenham just show what scum we have in this country thanks to the decline in social standards presided over by Labour and left-wing do-gooders.

7 August 2011 at 17:54  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Dodo@16:38
Immigration does play a part because it aggravates overcrowding and increases unemployment. The recent mass migration is having an effect in Tottenham and taking away jobs from those already here including the descendants of earlier immigrants. Some of the newcomers have a better work ethic. They get the jobs.

A photo of recent immigrants queueing for jobs at Wickes in Tottenham:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2014507/Foreign-workers-took-new-jobs-Britain-year.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

7 August 2011 at 18:07  
Blogger Span Ows said...

The majority are black British youth whose parents, grandparents and great grandparents have lived here as British citizens.

Wow, they've been here 30 years?

As for Asian Muslims, they come in at about 100

Whereas Asian Chinese and Asian Hindu [and Asian anything but Muslim] come well up the ranking and outshine in all school levels...can't think why though...

7 August 2011 at 18:55  
Anonymous not a machine said...

Dutchfrancis1953 :re our conversing a few nights ago on prayer and healing , The book I found to be useful on the subject and was looking for .

"Physcology religion and healing" by leslie D Weatherhead , Hodder and Staunghton publishers . It has had a number of reprints my copy says 1953.

I found it a very informed and reasoned approach .

7 August 2011 at 19:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Good shout, Span Ows

I should have said Asians in general. The 'fly in the ointment' has proved to be Pakistani Muslims. They really are there on the floor when it comes to ability and achievement, and in-breeding isn't helping...

7 August 2011 at 19:12  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Dodo the Dude reasonably asked...

Any evidence for the IQ differential between white and black people?

to which Johnny Rottenborough replied...

Europe and Africa.

Oh well, at least them black peoples got rhythm. Not to mention ... Oh, %^$#%!

QUICK! HIDE THE WHITE WOMEN!

carl

7 August 2011 at 19:14  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

Mike, I completely agree with you. Muslims are as thick as pig shit, otherwise why adhere to such an intolerant belief system. Until we, the white population recognise our superior genetic traits, we will continue to be subsumed by the ethnic inferiors that we have allowed our public servants to infest our country with for the past 50 years.

7 August 2011 at 20:04  
Blogger Keir said...

What have they done to my capital, that once withstood the blitz? Yet another part of my country that is now completely, utterly foreign to me.
To fill in those who are limited to this article, here is a picture of the man police shot: http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/resources/images/1733943/?type=display

7 August 2011 at 20:09  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

john in cheshire
But you're not superior according to the 'evidence' (cough, cough).

The Chinese and Indian are way out in front with us 'whities' trailing behind. Oh well, so much for white supremacy and the Aryan brotherhood.

7 August 2011 at 20:14  
Blogger Span Ows said...

The Chinese and Indian are way out in front with us 'whities' trailing behind. Oh well, so much for white supremacy and the Aryan brotherhood.

Both the Chinese and Indians have a very strong work and study ethic; they work all hours and are pushed to better themselves, this attitude has been fading in the aboriginal Brits for 3 or 4 decades; certainly in the cities where the Black and Muslim community 'soak up' the attention and the money of the government mutli-culti love fest whilst urban unterklasse white trash have long been forgotten and get trashier living off benefits. I suspect in rural communities "whities" aren't trailing by so much.

7 August 2011 at 20:32  
Anonymous Shacklefree said...

We can talk about the IQs of blacks whites, or outer Mongolians. We can talk about school standards, overcrowding, immigration etc. and people are frantically trying to find a political answer such as repatriation, more prisons but we continue to make the same mistake. This is a spiritual problem in our society. In the past we have always had violence but the violence now seems to be more and more mindless. It would be interesting to correlate the increase in mindless violence with the removal of public prayers from our institutions. Someone asked Billy Graham’s daughter “Why does God allow so much violence in our society?” to which she replied that we have been telling him to get out of our society for a long time and like the perfect gentleman he is, he complied.

7 August 2011 at 20:33  
Anonymous malvoisin said...

Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

john in cheshire
But you're not superior according to the 'evidence' (cough, cough).

The Chinese and Indian are way out in front with us 'whities' trailing behind. Oh well, so much for white supremacy and the Aryan brotherhood.

Maybe they do have a higher IQ than whitey but it is what you do with that IQ that counts.
India; spends millions on space programs and yet, lets their people live and die in the utmost poverty.

China; read as India but money spent on military.

As for the advancement of civilisation,inventions, Art,Music,Technology, medicine etc etc whitey rules supreme.

7 August 2011 at 20:37  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "The Chinese and Indian are way out in front with us 'whities' trailing behind. Oh well, so much for white supremacy and the Aryan brotherhood."

Yes. "Why import failure?" (from Africa) didn't seem to have a flip side of "Let's import success!" (from Asia) when this last came up. I recall the Asian IQ figures being strangely absent in the quote about regional IQs at the time.

7 August 2011 at 21:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only mistake these so called rioters have made is not to burn down everything belonging to the fascists who are adding comments here!

7 August 2011 at 21:26  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

So it seems IQ isn't simply a function of genetics then if all you 'experts' are correct.

Surprise, surprise.

Don't you know that nutrition and health care impact on intelligence? Also, cognitive development is promoted by language and story telling. It's also promoted by active involvement in problem solving.

The 'white race' is no better nor worse than other 'races'. If we are 'superior'then God help us all.

Ps
Jesus Christ was a semitic in descent.

7 August 2011 at 21:32  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Anonymous said...
"The only mistake these so called rioters have made is not to burn down everything belonging to the fascists who are adding comments here!"

They're not necessarily 'fascist', just old fashioned, ignorant racists. Modern day Colonel Blimps who can't see what's in front of their noses.

7 August 2011 at 21:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Spurs till I die!"

7 August 2011 at 21:37  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo et al

I brought IQ into the equation to illustrate the reasons as to why some sections of society choose to riot.

We are all as God intended us to be. He did not make us equal but we are equal before Him.

As to continued mass coloured imigration, would someone please point out the benefit of it, if there is one...

7 August 2011 at 21:42  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Yes, mr. badneighbour @20:37: As for the advancement of civilisation, inventions, Art, Music, Technology, medicine etc etc whitey rules supreme. Nevertheless, we cannot forget that much of our knowledge came to us via the Middle East and Indo-Europe-- some of it even from China, where they had things like weaving and printing (not moveable type, I know) as early as us if not sooner.

So I think the question does not depend on racial characteristics. Rather, we should ask as a taxi-driver once did of me, "How come they stopped developing, and westerners continued?"

Shacklefree is probably on the right track: This is a spiritual problem in our society. It's worth recognising that Judaeo-Christianity is the religion of the Word, and so of education and of schools. For 2000 years, the schools founded on and in the Christian tradition have nurtured Western language and knowledge: and there we processed it in the interests of Truth (for the glory of God). School prayers participated in that mindset.

What we now choose to forget is that, once the predominant motives become cupidity and glorification of the god-man - corruption sets in, closely followed by disintegration. I say that's where we are now; and that's why others will fail who do not apply the Judaeo-Christian principle. btw: I meet some very hard-working and brilliant Chinese, who are also Christian.

7 August 2011 at 21:49  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Office of Inspector General said...
"Dodo et al
I brought IQ into the equation to illustrate the reasons as to why some sections of society choose to riot."

But your basic premise about there being a genetic difference between 'races' is wrong. So your argument is flawed and we're back to social, economic and political explanations - not 'excuses'.

7 August 2011 at 22:00  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

If these rioters had been vigilantes hunting down and eradicating criminal eliments in their community, I would be saying fair play to them, whatever their race or religion.

But they are rising up in defence of crime, instead. When white criminals get shot, we tend to say they deserved it.

7 August 2011 at 22:06  
Anonymous MrJ said...

"Someone asked Billy Graham’s daughter 'Why does God allow so much violence in our society?' to which she replied that we have been telling him to get out of our society for a long time and like the perfect gentleman he is, he complied."

More than a *bon mot*-- an *apercu*.

"telling him to get out of our society" ...could this be correlated with the lowering of IQ among those who have been exercising legislative and governing power and authority in this country from say, 1905 (which happens to be the year in which the Inspector General assumed office) ?

"Jesus Christ was a semitic in descent": more truly said, perhaps, of John the Baptist and the Apostles. According to scripture, the Temple authorities plotted to have him put to death because, they alleged, he claimed to be Son of God.

7 August 2011 at 22:08  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Professor the Dude (22:00): But your basic premise about there being a genetic difference between ‘races’ is wrong.

News Medical: A 60-page review of the scientific evidence, some based on state-of-the-art magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of brain size, has concluded that race differences in average IQ are largely genetic.

Who to believe?

7 August 2011 at 22:19  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo 22:00

Current thought is that non-African homo sapien sapien derives from no more than 7 females who escaped the continent in the distant past. Probably via the horn of Africa. That makes all present Africans and half-breeds such as Duggan, proto humans. Of course their is going to be a gentic difference...

7 August 2011 at 22:24  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Presumably, a zygote has an IQ of zero given that it has no brain at all. Just saying, like.

7 August 2011 at 22:28  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

Office of Inspector General said...

That makes all present Africans and half-breeds such as Duggan, proto humans.

Un-freaking-believable. I never cease to be amazed at the opinions lurking under the rocks of this weblog.

For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. Romans 5:15

How then did sin enter the world? Who was our common Father? There are no "proto-humans." There is one race called 'man' among whom there are many tribes and many tongues. And yet fools presume on that which they have been given and say "See, this is the result of our superiority. It is not the blessing of God. It is the work of our own hands, and that the product of our genetic superiority. Look at those inferiors. By their inadequacy is our stature measured."

Fools! You will be judged by the measure with which you judge.

carl

7 August 2011 at 22:44  
Blogger English Viking said...

Carl,

If you are going to chide people for disobeying scripture, it's probably best if you don't, too.

Matt 5 v 22

7 August 2011 at 22:51  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Yes Carl - Proto Homo Sapien Sapien. Idi Amin ate part of his Archbishop's liver. Does this offend your sensibilities; it should do...

Still, all part of God's plan...

7 August 2011 at 23:02  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

English Viking

Do you think every declaration of 'fool' is a violation of the Sermon on the Mount? Or have I judged rightly? You tell me. Where is the fault in my judgment?

OIG compounds his folly by stating "Idi Amin ate part of his Archbishop's liver." Do show me the connection that proves this action was the result of "proto-human" genetics. Do show me that this behavior is not present in the 'white' community. I don't know what else but 'fool' to call a man who spews forth such nonsense.

It does not matter whether it offends me. It offends the Gospel. It offends the Truth. Those are more important than my feelings. As it is written:

“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. Rev 5:9

Yes, even those black "proto-humans" - some of whom will be greater in the Kingdom of Heaven than the whitest of European men.

carl

7 August 2011 at 23:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'When you're discussing black immigrant IQ, you are looking at around 90. (UK Average is 103)'

one day at a park, my 6year old son was playing and a young boy (white) of 4year started shouting 'monkey' at him. I instructed my son to ignore the boy and continue to play. The boy's mum shouted at him to stop calling him such a bad name.

The moral of this experience is that a 4year old boy learnt this behaviour from .....?

When things go wrong in England, why do immigration always the problem?

If indeed the IQ is higher than immigrants why then is immigration the problem?

Serious events have happened, a black man has lost his life. The police now have the responsibility of justifying his death. People have lost businesses and livelihood, a lot is happening...

I see at very low for some people to think that it has to do with IQ or immigration.

The IQ test is a test designed for which race?

Egypt civilised the world

Before anyone should talk about IQ and other ethnic groups and their cultures, let them fill themselves with knowledge in history not from 'daily mirror' and 'news of the world'

7 August 2011 at 23:24  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

Even you must agree there is rightous anger that can and must be expressed against one's brother without risking hell? And, let's face it, the evil, racist poison being spewed out here has to be named for what it is.

I agree with Carl - they are, at the very least, fools. Indeed, he was being restrained and mild mannered!

"Fool - a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense."

7 August 2011 at 23:26  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Carl - God loves his earthly creation. We will all be judged whether we are of proto human stock or more advanced, for example, of Western derivation.

Incidentally, the Inspector General used to keep mice. These little buggers were forever at each others throats, but IG loved them all...

7 August 2011 at 23:30  
Anonymous Rioter said...

So it's coz I's black.

7 August 2011 at 23:40  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Anonymous 23:24

A black GUNMAN has lost his life. Don't forget that, do you hear...

7 August 2011 at 23:40  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

OIG

Therefore, [Jesus] had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Hebrews 2:17

How could the Lord Jesus be made exactly like His brethren, such that He might make an offering for Sin if there are both humans and proto-humans? How could He be tempted in all ways yet without sin if there exists an entire proto-human species that suffers from ... what should I say ... greater moral incapacity? How can he be brother to both if he can only have the genetics of one?

carl

7 August 2011 at 23:42  
Anonymous Rioter said...

If I's black I ain't sponsable coz I's thick ... innit.

7 August 2011 at 23:49  
Anonymous MrJ said...

It is sad to see one commenter so shocked about what he has been reading here as to utter an exclamation of reproof at 22:44 prompting another's counter-reproof at 22:51.

The need to reconcile scriptural truth, especially Genesis, with the current findings and transient theories about the origin of the races of mankind recalls the publication of "Omphalos" by which the naturalist Philip Gosse intended to counter the Darwinian theory of the origin of species.

It is reasonable to propose that, rightly understood, the way in which creation is told in Genesis is a more reliable guide to the truth-seeker than theories which are incompatible with scripture.

But (as a Village Explainer could say) that depends initially on a willingness not to take the "days" of Genesis as being identical with the days of our weeks reckoned by the sun appearing to pass the meridian according to the annual cycle from midwinter to midsummer.

7 August 2011 at 23:54  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Anonymous (23:24)—When things go wrong in England, why do immigration always the problem?

‘Violent inner-city crime, the figures, and a question of race’—The Sunday Telegraph

7 August 2011 at 23:58  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Carl - You're missing the point. We are all God's creatures whatever our postion in creation. Maybe Idi Amin is forgiven for eating his Archbishop's liver; whereas I probably wouldn't be forgiven for eating yours...

8 August 2011 at 00:01  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Racist rioting, by people who'd rather turn London in Lagos.

If it had been a white gunman shot dead, nobody would have said a word!

8 August 2011 at 00:15  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

No, OIG, I am not missing the point. My daughter's cat is also one of God's creatures, but the Lord Jesus was not made brother to a cat. Nor does He offer propitiation on its behalf. The Lord Jesus was made Man. Those for whom He died were men just like He was. We all originate in one common act of Creation. We all have a common father. We all carry the mark of Adam's sin. There are not "proto-humans" and "humans." There are not "less-advanced" and "more-advanced" derivations. There are only men possessing various arbitrary racial characteristics. What does this speculation do besides flatter the imagination of white men? What purpose does it serve besides re-assuring them of their naturally dominant position in the world? You gratify your ego, and call it 'science.'

carl

Who isn't afraid to say Genesis speaks of literal days, and that the whole of macro-evolution is so much materialist dung. Oh, dear. DanJ0 will think me an uneducated idiot. But then, he already thinks that.

8 August 2011 at 00:17  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Mr J said ...
"Jesus Christ was a semitic in descent": more truly said, perhaps, of John the Baptist and the Apostles. According to scripture, the Temple authorities plotted to have him put to death because, they alleged, he claimed to be Son of God."

I know we've had our differences but I am genuinely interested in this.

As I read the Gospels, Jesus did claim to be the Son of God. At His trial He made an unambiguous statement to the High Priest announcing this:

"Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM."

It has always struck me the Jewish authorities had a number of interpretations they could place on of His words.

Blasphemy from a madman. A wilful rabel rouser seeking an uprising. Or to accept Jesus as God, the Son made flesh and their Messiah.

The Jewish leaders conspired and manipulated to have Him executed by Rome.

Why?

Truth, madness/possession, or rebellion?

The first is improbable; the second a possibility if His actions threatened stability; and the last is a possibility too.

8 August 2011 at 00:28  
Blogger English Viking said...

Carl,

Please don't lecture me matters of race when I have not expressed an opinion on the matter.

Matthew is clear. It requires no further explanation from me.

BTW God expressed his dislike about entire races from time to time. The Amorites, the Amalekites, the Philistines, et al.

Should God mind his p's and q's so as not to offend the PC brigade?

Should I?

8 August 2011 at 00:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to point out why was there no Water cannon or plastic bullets used in these riots?I live in Belfast and for 40 years it was good enough to use these type of weapons to break up rioters,so why not the rest of the UK?

8 August 2011 at 00:59  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Mr D.t' D. If I understand you aright, that is a valid reading toward the truth which the Gospel presents, viz:

The Temple authorities (with a certain status accorded by Rome) conspired and manipulated to have Him executed by Rome. Their motive could have been:

Acceptance of Jesus as God, the Son made flesh and their Messiah: improbable; or Blasphemy from a madman: a possibility if His actions threatened stability; or A wilful rabble rouser seeking an uprising: a possibility too.

But this gains its meaning from the Gospel as a whole, without which the significance of this crucifixion is little more than one of a sequence of crucifixions from the earlier events when Pharisees had been crucified and later events when Christians were crucified.

8 August 2011 at 01:02  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

English Viking

Matthew is clear. It requires no further explanation from me.

Did the Lord Jesus violate His own commandment when He said:

You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? Matt 23:17

Did Paul violate the commandment when he said:

Professing to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:22

Or again:

You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies 1 Cor 15:36

Do you really not know that no less than seventy-five Proverbs describe a fool? If you are going to discern, then discern rightly. My judgment in this matter is right.

BTW God expressed his dislike about entire races from time to time. The Amorites, the Amalekites, the Philistines, et al.

God judged men for sin. He didn't judge them for being Amalekites or Canaanites. You slander the nature of God to defend foolishness.

carl

8 August 2011 at 01:07  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Mr J

The overall meaning of the Gospel is, in part, as I understand it, that Jesus freely sacrificed Himself, as a spotless victim acceptable to God, to atone for the sin of mankind, to unite us with Him as brothers and to secure eternal union with God for all of man. He was be born from a chosen and prepared people who, apart from a few, failed to recognise Him, and put Him to death.

The motives of the Jews are not clear to me from the Gospels. In terms of the meaning of the death of Christ, I guess to some extent they are not material.

I ask because my father was an orthodox Jew before converting to Roman Catholicism and he always took the view the Jewish leaders did not wilfully orchastrate the death of someone they actually believed to be the Son of God. He thought they considered Jesus a disturber of the peace and whether he was unintentionally or deliberately blaspheming didn't interest them too much. He threatened their interests, interests which blinded them to who He was, and they wanted Him gone.

His death was criminal under Jewish law because they had insufficient justification if He was mad, or proof to show He was instigating rebellion. They manipulated Pilate and the crowd to get the outcome they wanted. It was an act of murder.

8 August 2011 at 01:33  
Blogger Ivan said...

IQ differences after appropriate controls for factors such as economic status exist. It is stupid to claim otherwise. In Singapore where I live, the rankings are as follows 1. Chinese, 2 Indians, 3 Malays. Now it may happen that a particular Malay has the highest intelligence in his cohort, nonetheless the averages continue to show a distinct and till now unbridged gap. I had earlier accepted the the pablum about IQ being largely about the environment, and there may be some variability at the margins due to cultural bias in the IQ tests. Now as a Christian, it means a hill of beans to me whether someone has an IQ of 90 or 165, what matters is what one does with the gifts that God has given us, for all of us are under the same sign of the hourglass.

Ivan

8 August 2011 at 02:31  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Thank you for the link at 22:19, Mr. Rottenborough. I see also your wisdom: "Who to believe?" does seem to be the best position to take! :)

I note that a number of researchers from several US universities undertook the study of IQ test-results, though I didn't see who sponsored it. A reviewer tells us: " 'Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause,' write the authors." So they assume that the differences do exist, and then they hypothesise as to 10 possible causes.

The reviewer continues- "The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001.
Well... their modern sample is of 6million [out of a possible (nearly) 7 billion people worldwide, so it's not that huge]; and I suppose one would have to plough through the study to answer questions like, "How many of their test-takers came from which conditions, in which parts of the globe? How many got to the test-taking venue by nepotism, financial advantage, favoritism, or other forms of positive/negative discrimination; or how many even by intellectual merit? And what about drug-takers?" etc. etc.

Meanwhile - I've met both bright people and thickies from many races and walks of life. The source of individual thickness is not necessarily evident to the naked eye; but I doubt if MRI turns up all the answers either. Can it say, for example, how, why, or whether an individual has developed which of his cerebral synapses over the course of a lifetime? Or even whether a lifetime of deprivation, abuse, bad example, intellectual vacuum, drugs, etc. ... causes a build-up of bestial anger?

Still; I'll have to reconsider that antiquated criterion about cranial sizes, to guess how often they correlate to Western-style intellectual performance and race ... if I can remember :) I'll bear in mind that the epithet "Big 'e-ad" can be thoroughly uncomplimentary!

wv: lorernu

P.S: Apologies if this post appears more than once: Disappearing Post Syndrom...

8 August 2011 at 04:01  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Thank you for the link at 22:19, Mr. Rottenborough. I see also your wisdom: "Who to believe?" does seem to be the best position to take! :)

I note that a number of researchers from several US universities undertook the study of IQ test-results, though I didn't see who sponsored it. A reviewer tells us: " 'Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause,' write the authors." So they assume that the differences do exist, and then they hypothesise as to 10 possible causes.

The reviewer continues- "The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001.
Well... their modern sample is of 6million [out of a possible (nearly) 7 billion people worldwide, so it's not that huge]; and I suppose one would have to plough through the study to answer questions like, "How many of their test-takers came from which conditions, in which parts of the globe? How many got to the test-taking venue by nepotism, financial advantage, favoritism, or other forms of positive/negative discrimination; or how many even by intellectual merit? And what about drug-takers?" etc. etc.

Meanwhile - I've met both bright people and thickies from many races and walks of life. The source of individual thickness is not necessarily evident to the naked eye; but I doubt if MRI turns up all the answers either. Can it say, for example, how, why, or whether an individual has developed which of his cerebral synapses over the course of a lifetime? Or even whether a lifetime of deprivation, abuse, bad example, intellectual vacuum, drugs, etc. ... causes a build-up of bestial anger?

Still; I'll have to reconsider that antiquated criterion about cranial sizes, to guess how often they correlate to Western-style intellectual performance and race ... if I can remember :) I'll bear in mind that the epithet "Big 'e-ad" can be thoroughly uncomplimentary!

wv: lorernu

8 August 2011 at 04:28  
Blogger prziloczek said...

Me, I am a Catholic.

That means I don't ask about race or how clever people are. (The Chinese win every time).

I ask whose side they are one.

It seems to me, at the moment anyway, that the rioters in Tottenham were not really on the side of Almighty God. What their motives were, though I leave to your fertile imaginations.......

8 August 2011 at 07:34  
Anonymous Marcus Scarman said...

Your Grace

Your blog seems to have a strange effect on people and who it unites and who it divides. I see the irony in what your posting, but frankly speaking and as usual, the thread gets highjacked by the militant BNP types, or at least those who sympathise with their views and it seems to me that the use of the fear of Islamism to mask their own racial predjuices gets discarded when the general issue of race relations crops up on this blog.

8 August 2011 at 07:38  
Anonymous Dr Warlock said...

Finally some-one is standing up to English Viking! Go-go Carl Jacobs!

8 August 2011 at 07:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace,

How come we go from the post (which is about rioting) to a discussion on the various racial superiority of different ethnic groups? I think the likes of John in Cheshire have slipped through a time warp and are actually from the late 1890s when such social darwinistic and racial notions such as his were the norm.

8 August 2011 at 07:51  
Anonymous Marcus Scarman said...

English Viking, is he for real?

If not, can you at least change the character a bit- why bother to have the English Viking pretend to be a Christian, as you compare Christianity with the vile spew that he comes out with and, well, frankly it makes his whole character seem unrealistic and makes it look like your taking the micky out of Christianity (although you could be an atheist and this could be the reason).

Other than that English Viking is quite a believable character with an ironic name- some-one is who is against immigration taking the monkier of a bunch of immigrants who not only came to england without invitation, who also made the riots above look OK, when the raped, pillaged and burned every church and monestary they could find.

All in all the English Viking character is OK, but some times becomes so OTT it makes you think- this guy isn't for real and your cover gets exposed.

8 August 2011 at 08:11  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Marcus Scarman,

His Grace is aware of the BNP-types who troll this blog, and has just deleted a post which was gratuitously offensive. Others, of course, may also be, but he refers you to his 'bottom line' in the right-hand column. His Grace is firmly convinced that debate and reason are the tools of political and philosophical education: prejudice and irrational discrimination are never corrected by censorship. His Grace is deeply appreciative of those communicants who patiently engage with those whose IQ is not quite sufficient to grasp the matter at hand.

8 August 2011 at 08:27  
Anonymous malvoisin said...

Anonymous non mouse said...

Yes, mr. badneighbour @20:37: As for the advancement of civilisation, inventions, Art, Music, Technology, medicine etc etc whitey rules supreme. Nevertheless, we cannot forget that much of our knowledge came to us via the Middle East and Indo-Europe-- some of it even from China, where they had things like weaving and printing (not moveable type, I know) as early as us if not sooner.

Granted some did come from China until it stagnated, but I must take issue with the rest, the knowledge that came from the middle east originally came from Rome and Greece, the best that could be said is that the middle east were caretakers of lost western knowledge after those civilisations collapsed.

8 August 2011 at 08:38  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

A negro gunman,shot by police,others of his tribe demonstrate outside the police station demanding "justice",the police cordon off the police station,then those same negroes give up demanding "justice"and proceed to rob and loot thier neighbours and destroy thier environment,immediately an army of communist queers spring to thier defence,in a day or two the long police tongues will be deployed to clean up any residual excrement lingering upon negro anuses,whilst showering them with taxpayer money,then maybe an enquiry into why the indigenous population tollerates these animals,who should be in a zoo,or preferably africa,followed by the entire criminal house of commons,stalking the smouldering ruins of tottenham with knitted brows in search of sound bites,who will declare that the indigenous population have no right to resist thier racial replacement,and we must love the negro while he holds a knife or gun in our faces and steals our possessions,off topic i know ,but that is mps for you,not a lot of room for a discussion on iq ,is there?

8 August 2011 at 08:41  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Mr Do t' ude_ Thank you for 1:33. In my experience, it is always interesting and usually instructive and enlightening to hear what those with a Jewish upbringing have to say about the Christian Gospel.

It may be felt to be needful to come to some understanding of what the Gospel was at the time of Abraham, of Moses and of Elijah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah; after the Return and rebuilding of the Temple; after the Maccabees; in the time of Caesar Augustus; before the Baptismal Epiphany; after Easter Sunday and after the ensuing Pentecost and Ascension; after the revelation to the Pharisee Saul of Tarsus and his taking up his mission as Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles (according to his letter to the Galatians) in Asia Minor and Greece; and after the communication of the content of the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) to John of Patmos.

And, after a painting such as "Christ before the High Priest" (1617, Gerrit van Honthorst, National Gallery).

8 August 2011 at 09:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting post.

8 August 2011 at 10:06  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8 August 2011 at 10:40  
Blogger Graham Davis said...

Let’s put this black/white thing to rest. There are more differences (of all kinds) within ethnic groups than between them.

Rioting like that in Tottenham has a variety of triggers, it can be racial discrimination, it can be deprivation, it can be lack of work and it can be lack of adequate parenting. It is often associated with warm weather and there is usually a single event, like the shooting of this local man by the police, which provides the final trigger, one thing of which you can be certain and that is that young men will have started it. Testosterone driven and doubtless inspired by TV images of other riots, young men alienated from the community in which they live and who have no status other than by showing how hard they are can quickly descend into mob violence.

The looting is different. Otherwise law abiding citizens are suddenly presented with the opportunity to plunder. Maybe they see this as a victimless crime the rational being it going to go up in flames soon so we are doing no more than rescuing the trainers and mobile phones.

I doubt this riot has anything much to do with the current cuts but I expect more trouble in the future when it really comes home to people how there lives and future prospects have been ruined by a small number of financial fat cats who are still sitting pretty. In fact it surprises me how passive we have all been, from the dispossessed young to the pensioner expecting a comfortable retirement.

The free market has provided growth but when that growth stops what then? There is a problem with global capitalism (too big a subject to discuss here) that society needs to address. The alternatives will not be found by espousing defunct concepts like left or right but by addressing what really makes people happy and contented along with what can provide an acceptable level of material well-being to the majority.

8 August 2011 at 10:43  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ non mouse (04:01)—When all is said and done, the biggest samples remain Europe and Africa. Why has one continent flourished and the other stagnated?

‘[Charles] Murray finds that almost all important scientific and technological advances in the modern world until the mid-twentieth century were made by Europeans or their descendants overseas.’—Fjordman’s review of Human Accomplishment: The Pursuit of Excellence in the Arts and Sciences, 800 BC to 1950

8 August 2011 at 11:46  
Anonymous MrJ said...

To state the obvious:

In the absence of thorough, fair and accurate investigation, reporting and publication there can be no in depth analysis of causes and motives: this seems not to deter or embarass those who have ready-made responses which are about as thoughtful and useful as a jerk of the knee.

8 August 2011 at 11:52  
Anonymous tory boys never grow up said...

@Office of Inspector General
"Dodo, you pedant. Suggest you do a bit of research on IQ, a fascinating subject. For example, average Chinese IQ is above average UK IQ. IG can't remember then rioting since the Boxer rebellion."

I suggest that you do a a bit of research yourself on the subject of the Chniese rioting - here http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/13/china-riots-enter-third-day might be a good starting place, but there are planty of other examples. Oh well since your stupid theory is now blown apart by the facts you can just fall back on your racial predujice and ignorance as support for your views - I'm sure that you will continue to hold your disgusting views whatever the evidence.

8 August 2011 at 12:40  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Bred in the bone @ 22:06 :

''...rising up in defense of crime. When white criminals get shot, we tend to say they deserved it.''

Says it all really, as does much of what ggeof says @ 16:42 & 17:12 - that is, before the argument chuntered-out, along predictable lines, for both 'right' and 'left' accordingly.

8 August 2011 at 12:44  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Your Grace,

What we are witnessing is the result of the ex-government and present government policies, several generations who now are incapable or unwilling of looking to themselves for solutions to their predicaments.

A blame culture, blame the state, the police,their parents, anything or anyone but themselves.

Part of me asks "who can blame them", they witness day in and out bailouts while feeling the effects of the cuts, while youth clubs etc which cost peanuts are closed the banks and shareholders continue to recieve squillions of tax payers booty.

I`m not surprised feral men are running riot, where are the examples for any young person, the Church?, No, the Government?, No!, Celebreties?, dont make me laugh!, their parents? not likely, its a dog eat dog world, some feast off the fat of the land while others die a slow death for want of a meal and a cup of clean water.

We live in a global cesspit of industrial warfare, lies, spin, greed, spite, hate and division, we are reaping what we have sown.

8 August 2011 at 12:48  
Anonymous flocky said...

The rioters looters and vandals are scum and anyone wearing a hoodie should be shot in the knees Then we can round them up later and deport them. I don't care what colour or creed they are ( all red herrings by the sound of it). The racist drivel spewed out by some of the morons here swamps any legitimate concerns they have about society and the normal sh1t people get up to whether emaciated white scum or any other colour of scum. I bet there is as much english scum as the latter in fact given the love of white supremacists for their own no doubt they will be bragging our scum is better than your scum. Not to jump to moronic conclusions but I didn't see to any old folk rioting maybe its just young adolescent males. Easy final solution then shoot the lot of them, unless of course they are wearing a pin striped suit after all fiscal vandalism doesn't count. The economic sh1t we are in is a consequence of greedy bastards its a factor but but not one the looting scum care about. unemployment, twitter, immigration nothing on the telly, the media are all factors but the bastards who threw the petrol bombs and looted the shops don't give a sh1t about these thing so why drag them into the frame.

8 August 2011 at 12:57  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Thanks to this Blog's eponymous Abp for today's indirect link to Jack of Kent 7 August 2011 "Predicting a riot"
which remarks "...people with political opinions tend to find exactly what they want in any civil disturbance.... The actual riots are rarely predicted; but when they happen, people with political opinions tend to immediately know why they happened - what really caused them.... civil disturbances are profoundly reactionary: they tend to reinforce rather than challenge views which already exist."

8 August 2011 at 12:58  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

When a black youth worker is on TV saying that “in Tottenham there is a feeling passed down from generation to generation that the police are not for us” it suggests entrenched alienation in a community that is excluded or has excluded itself from being British.

Property was burnt down but it's multiculturalism that has gone up in smoke.

But the looted shelves will be restocked with rose tinted spectacles and we'll pretend to be a united kingdom until the next time we have to pretend again.

8 August 2011 at 13:16  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Oswin said...

It's the fault of white Christian racists like me, just ask Dodo and Stan.

7 August 2011 12:51


Please don`t sulk Oswin, its unbecoming.


English Viking from his woodshed said,

oIG,

The Viking believes that the time has come for dum-dum bullets.

Oh dear EV, have you learned nothing from the recent events in your beloved Norway?

8 August 2011 at 13:17  
Anonymous Jack Flash said...

The amount of racist ignorance exhibited by people who presume to be educated, literate Christians is appalling.
Where is the guarantee that there were no white rioters?.
Could it be that in a hedonistic society that judges worth by what a person has.
That a frustrated element of rebellious youth, who have become disenchanted by the broken promises of succesive governments in a country now so mistrusting of greedy politicians whose main objective seems to be to hitch a ride on the gravy train and who have been caught many times robbing the till, to the extent that we now suffer under a paper tiger patchwork of a Lib/Con non government that changes the rules in a bid to stay in office.
Is it possible that this is the first rumblings of rebellion and revolution?.
My own feelings are that the death of an armed and dangerous man, is the excuse that was needed to riot and loot, it's not to do with race or intelligence. I hope that the civil disobedience will stop at this juncture. But Egypt, Libya, Syria etc all started from a few activists who used modern means and technology to motivate a disaffected majority to outright rebellion.
Please don't forget that the white Aryan Nazis came to power in the thirties due to the bad economic situation in Germany following World War 1.

Jack.

8 August 2011 at 13:24  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Archbishop Cranmer said ...

"His Grace is aware of the BNP-types who troll this blog (and) is deeply appreciative of those communicants who patiently engage with those whose IQ is not quite sufficient to grasp the matter at hand."

Now who could he be referring to?

8 August 2011 at 13:31  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Thanks again, Mr. Rottenborough@ 11:46. And yes, I agree it's a good focusing question: Why has one continent flourished and the other stagnated?

I see that the review you provide comes under the aegis of Brussels :(, However, it seems well-balanced in that it takes issue with some of Murray's rankings but agrees with his basic premise - and conclusion, in which: Murray believes that the twentieth century witnessed a decline in per capita accomplishment, as intellectuals rejected religion. He expects that almost no art from the second half of this century will be remembered 200 years from now.

My earlier suggestion is in tune with this. Furthermore, there's no denying that African culture (itself often degraded by euro intervention) has participated in the decline.

As other commenters [and, indeed, Conrad*] suggest, the answers to our present socio-economic problem are not simplistic; neither are the causes rooted in the present. Murray identifies more general factors, like wealth, purpose, and autonomy, as drivers of intellectual accomplishment and its converse. This would consist with the idea that marxist deconstructionist policies (which are socio-economic) have contributed to, if not engineered, the decomposition we witness today.

*"Heart of Darkness," yet again.

8 August 2011 at 14:17  
Blogger English Viking said...

Stan,

Ridiculous comparison, but just had to try to squeeze it in though, didn't you?

A bunch of kids, enjoying a nice weekend with their mates, compared to hundreds of marauding thugs, looters, arsonists and goodness knows what else?

Fail.

Mr Warlock

I suggest you repent. 2 Chronicles 33 v 6.

Carl,

Oooh, now I see; one only has to obey scripture if one agrees with it. Deep man, deep.

Any injunctions in Proverbs are superceded by the NT revelation. As the writings of Paul and whoever else you care to find calling an action foolish (which is not forbidded, BTW) or directly calling someone a fool, including the Lord Jesus Christ, are divinely inspired, Spirit-breathed in fact, they are the words of God Himself, and he is (obviously) perfected entitled to whomsoever whatsoever he wishes.

With regard to some of the (seemingly) harsh speech against entire nations that we see in the OT in particular, my point was that the language used in condemning an entire race, every last single one, even the cattle and the sheep, would today fall within the bounds of the ludicrously titled 'hate-speech' laws. Should we (perhaps you are unwilling to include me, but no matter) as Christians keep quiet about certain things, mince our words, deny the obvious truth before our eyes, pretend that God has not said what He plainly has said, indeed attempt to 'translate' it for Him so He does not appear to be a 'right-wing extreminst', simply to please unbelievers, or the PC infected wing of wishy-washies that populate large sections of the Church nowadays?

I tro not, Sir.

I do not attempt to pervert the scriptures to preach racial superiority, or inferiority, or any other such supposed stupidities I am accused of by people who don't actually read what I write. Every man of whatever colour is of equal value to God. Christ died for us all. That is spiritual truth. There is also the truth of the situation in London. Large numbers of predominantly Black/Afro-Caribbean men are using the Police shooting of one of their own (would they be protesting in such a manner if a 'white boy' had been shot? No? Perhaps they are racist for only being willing to 'protest' at the death of a black?) as a pathetic excuse for lawlessness, which, unless dealt with very firmly, will lead to copy-cats riots all over the country.

Marcus Scarman (almost Garvey, close, but no cigar),


I'm not against immigration per se. I am against futher immigration to the UK, as it cannot support any more people, the infra-structure is crumbling and economic collapse is imminent. I have no problem with being of immigrant stock, the reason being that ALL previous invasions/immigrations into GB before the '50s were by similar cultures, similar races, similar language speakers and usually of similar religion. The whole point is that you don't know whether a person is descended from a Norman, or a Viking, or a Jute, or a Saxon, etc (without DNA testing) because the numbers involved in the immigration 'wave' were so low that total assimilation has occurred. That has not happened under multi-culti madness, assimilation is actively resisted and I don't need a DNA test to see who is doing the resisting. The arch-traitor Cameron once suggested that the indigenous should accept more of the alien ways, and not the other way around. That makes me very sad, and angry.

That is why I disagree with mass-immigration of alien cultures and languages on an unsustainable scale. Call me all the names you like; I cannot, and I will not recant.

8 August 2011 at 14:24  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ MrJ (11:52)—I know that Katharine Birbalsingh is not everybody’s cup of tea but when a black woman says ‘These riots were about race. Why ignore the fact?’, it’s a little cruel to dismiss her contribution out of hand.

8 August 2011 at 14:32  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ non mouse (14:17)—Your :( should be a :). The Brussels Journal detests the European Union.

8 August 2011 at 14:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Colin'....yawned and quoted a Pamphlet...

....some-one is who is against >>immigration<< taking the monkier of a bunch of >>immigrants<< who not only came to england(sic) without invitation, who also made the riots above look OK, when the raped, pillaged and burned every church and monestary they could find....

Then 'Colin' Said....

... and you apparently dont even know the difference between the words INVASION FORCE and INVITED COLONISATION (not immigration, it's an 'a' too 'b', and then the grasp factor, it's 'b' >>back<< too 'a', in a c-i-r-c-u-l-a-r direction, Oxford English Dictionary, look it up, why don't you? thing)....

An intellect that shows itself unable to differentiate between simple English words, or delibrtely conflates them... is evidence of a healthy functional IQ is it..... oh really!

More Puddings at table 14 please!

8 August 2011 at 14:51  
Anonymous Dean Malibu said...

I wonder if English Viking could help me out here. He said (as a justification of his views):

"With regard to some of the (seemingly) harsh speech against entire nations that we see in the OT in particular, my point was that the language used in condemning an entire race, every last single one, even the cattle and the sheep, would today fall within the bounds of the ludicrously titled 'hate-speech' laws"... etc etc

This was said after English Viking had written :

"Any injunctions in Proverbs are superceded by the NT revelation".

So why use a text (the OT) as your justification for your views on these matters, when you believe yourself that the OT has been superceded by the NT??

I find the contradiction here quite strange.

8 August 2011 at 14:57  
Blogger I am Stan said...

English Viking, from his woodshed, in his wood, standing next to his wood pile, in Norway said,

Stan,

Ridiculous comparison, but just had to try to squeeze it in though, didn't you?

A bunch of kids, enjoying a nice weekend with their mates, compared to hundreds of marauding thugs, looters, arsonists and goodness knows what else?

Fail.


Oh EV I know your not that dense, surely even you can see the connection between a nut job killing folk with dum-dum bullets and

"The Viking believes that the time has come for dum-dum bullets."

See? nut-job/dum-dum!

I`ll spell it out for you EV, killing people is wrong, understand?

WROOOOOONG!!!

8 August 2011 at 14:58  
Blogger English Viking said...

Stan,

Let me assure you, my wood-pile is free of undesirables.

The use of military force against rioting hordes does not equate with a nut-job shooting kids.

I hear Breivik was wearing a Police uniform. Shall we ban the wearing of uniforms by Officers during riots, too?

You're not really very good at this logical argument thing, are you?

WROOOOOOOOONG!!

8 August 2011 at 15:11  
Anonymous MrJ said...

Well, Mr Johnny Rottenborough, I will try and answer what to me is a puzzling comment.

1) In this context, and with regard to some of the IQ statistics that have been mentioned, it is not clear to me what "black" signifies.

2) Whatever it signifies, it is not clear to me what its relevance would be.

3) Her article appears to me to be fair comment on the information she had gathered and set out, and on the basis of her own experience as a schoolteacher in London.

4) She appears to be a truthful and reliable source, and could be helpful to any lesser informed person on a quest for a truthful assessment.

5) I would not decline a cup of tea with her if offered.

6) Neither then had I nor now do I "dismiss her contribution" --out of hand or otherwise. Ditto the link in her article to Toby Young.

8 August 2011 at 15:19  
Blogger I am Stan said...

See? nut-job/dum-dum!

8 August 2011 at 15:26  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Mr. badneighbour at 8:38 -- . . . the knowledge that came from the middle east originally came from Rome and Greece, the best that could be said is that the middle east were caretakers of lost western knowledge after those civilisations collapsed.

ummm...perhaps it brings us closer to truth if we recognise that the Middle (and Near) East, have always provided cross-roads between other cultures and the West? While the facts about our Indo-European origins (and the knowledge we brought thence) are necessarily hazy, Greece didn't appear out of a vacuum (and there was the little matter of Troy).

Also, I'm sure you're not suggesting that Judaeo-Christian thinking originated in Greece, let alone Rome, are you?

Here's another technological snippet -- the earliest known iron-smelting samples are also from the Near East (3000 BC, or so). As with weaving, it's likely that different areas subsequently developed (or even independently originated) techniques, but even Greeks and Romans seem to have recognized the quality of Indian steel. And later Damascene (Syrian, 3rd-4th century AD) weapons were forged from Indian-smelted steel.**

Rome...well, it derived an awful lot from Greece too, didn't it? I seem to recall that Julius Caesar was kidnapped by pirates when he was on his way to Greece to learn rhetoric. No doubt some consider his later revenge a mark of superior Roman justice.

So yes, indeed you're right: the 12th-Century Renaissance availed itself of Greek knowledge preserved by Moors. But those same Moorish scholars had processed and contributed to some of the knowlege, which also included non-Greek algebra.*

My point is that Europe, as we used to know it, was always multi-cultural. It didn't emerge fully formed, and superior, from the sludge of the last global warming. Futhermore, if euros are really so amazing, I'd like to know why it's taken so inordinately long to develop this wacky computer technology. And why we British let our politicians get us into the mess we're in this weekend: with policemen dolling themselves up like medieval warriors, and all....

*Cook, William R. and Ronald b. Herzman. The Medieval World View: An Introduction. 2nd ed. Oxford: OUP, 2004. 220.

**Maryon, Herbert. "Pattern-Welding and Damascening of Sword-Blades: Part 2. The Damascene Process." Studies in Conservation. Vol. 5, No. 2 (May, 1960), pp. 52-60. International Institute for Conservation of Historic and Artistic Works.

8 August 2011 at 15:38  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ MrJ (15:19)—I do beg your pardon. Your comment at 11:52, with its reference to ‘those who have ready-made responses’, seemed to be a criticism of the position taken by Miss Birbalsingh and I was moved to defend her.

8 August 2011 at 15:39  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Thanks once more, Mr.R@ 14:45!

8 August 2011 at 15:46  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Stan: 'sulking' is one thing, labouring your original absurdity is quite another.

I'm only surprised you haven't got around to blaming the Norwegian ''nut-job'' for the Tottenham riots too; or perhaps you have, and I've missed it?

8 August 2011 at 15:57  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Oswin, now your being silly.

8 August 2011 at 16:25  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dean Malibu,

I see no contradiction.

I have suggested some instances of language used by God Himself, and his highest servants, in the OT, is evidence that God has used and continues to use form of speech, and thought, which today would fall into the category as 'hate speech'. As God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow, I assume He has not changed his manner of speech, regardless of the fact he has changed his covenant with man, to a better one.

The second point you make is about the NT superceding the Old, which it has, in SOME ways.

For example, I am no longer prohibited from eating pork, or shell-fish, etc. in order to please God. I don't need a Priest to offer a sacrifice, I don't need a temple. I don't need to be circumcised.

I do need to maintain most of the moral laws. The 'thou shalt', and 'the shalt not', if you like. One of the moral laws was the execution of adulterers upon the (eye witness) testimony of at least 2 but preferably 3 persons. This would seem to have been abandoned under NT rules now, as Christ refused to sanction the execution of a woman caught in the very act.

Where the OT is calling persons 'fools', as I have already explained, this is actually God Himself inspiring the author of whichever book, and He can call people what He wishes. Where I see a prohibition on the use of the word in the NT, I assume I am no longer permitted to use such a word.

BTW, The word is actually 'raca', which mean 'empty-head', or 'vain fellow' in Aramaic, the dialect Christ spoke (amongst others). I don't think the use of the word 'fool', in and of itself, is any worse and probably far less rude than many others that Christians, including myself, use from time to time. Christ's warning was (I believe) more concerned with heart of a person who would say such a thing TO A BROTHER. Read the passage, it is instruction to believers. If one gets on his high horse on a matter, becomes so angry that he loses his self-control, and begins to let hate creep into his heart in respect of his dealing with his brother, to the point where he thinks Him a 'vain fellow' (in the context, an unbeliever) he places himself in danger. I thought Carl was in this position, and so I told him so.

Others may think me in this position, and time will tell.

8 August 2011 at 16:32  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Stan : hell, you've made a career out of it, don't be so damned greedy!

8 August 2011 at 17:28  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

There are far worse things to call people than fools. And aren't we all brothers and sisters?

8 August 2011 at 17:59  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

All those who have bowed the knee to Christ, confessed with their mouths and believed in their hearts, that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead, are indeed brothers and sisters.

8 August 2011 at 18:22  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Open communication to the Home Secretary, Theresa May

Madam, stop this rioting... The Met awaits the plastic bullets

8 August 2011 at 18:45  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

English Viking

Amen to that - and those who don't share our faith are our neighbours.

8 August 2011 at 20:49  
Blogger The Worker said...

Dodo and Viking

Does this brotherhood, neighbourliness and exercise of restaint, include resisting the temptation to threaten others with hell fire unless they believe as you do?

8 August 2011 at 21:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mob have realised that they can do whatever they want, because the authorities lack the will to stop them. Soon, they will lack the ability.

8 August 2011 at 22:55  
Anonymous Oswin said...

Do we have any troops in London; or are they all deployed in some damned desert somewhere?

Time to take back London from the black mob. Don't bother to say so, I've seen a few white faces too; perhaps one of those rare examples of cultural assimilation eh?

Welcome to Britain 2011.

8 August 2011 at 22:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Innocent people will be dead by morning. The only way to save them would be by firing on the mob. That will not happen, because criminals are worth more than the law-abiding.

8 August 2011 at 23:18  
Blogger English Viking said...

The Worker,

No.

P.S. Please don't shoot the messenger. God does the damnation thing, not me.

P.P.S. Please don't call me a racist for implicating that you might possibly be involved in gun-crime. :-)

8 August 2011 at 23:26  
Blogger English Viking said...

Implying, not implicating ^^^.

Stupid keyboard, stupid fingers, stupid man.

8 August 2011 at 23:27  
Blogger English Viking said...

Dodo,

Correct, some of whom are our enemies, which we should love.

You'll note that Christ took it as a given that a Christian will have enemies. That he gave instructions on how to deal with them.

Is it loving to permit a person to commit arson? If so, how can we love the one whose property is torched? If not, how far do we go to prevent such outrages?

Oh it all gets very complicated, doesn't it.

8 August 2011 at 23:35  
Blogger The Worker said...

English Viking

Thr Parable of the Good Samaritan suggests otherwise.

All people are our neighbours. You appear well versed in the bible and Jesus, when asked who is my neighbour, gave His answer.

Who is our neighbour and how do we show our love of him? It does not help the message of the Gospel to be hostile and aggressive towards those who walk in the darkness of unbelief. Saint Paul spoke of love in transcendant terms.

8 August 2011 at 23:42  
Anonymous carl jacobs said...

English Viking

Oooh, now I see; one only has to obey scripture if one agrees with it.

And where did I say this? To obey the word of God you must first rightly divide it. The issue in Matthew 5 is not the specific word 'fool' but the heart from which the exclamation originates. It does not mean that I cannot judge a man a fool according to biblical standards anymore than "Judge not lest you be judged" means that I must suspend all judgment. So how then did I violate the Scriptures? And why would the Lord Jesus need to appeal to his divinity to say such a thing? Could He not judge justly? You seem to imply that to judge a man a fool is always and everywhere impermissible because it reveals an evil motive in the heart. That is manifestly not true. It is also why I included the reference to Proverbs to provide a standard. To which you responded...

Any injunctions in Proverbs are superceded by the NT revelation.

By what authority do you make that claim? Who said "Answer a fool not according to his folly" is no longer valid? Certainly not the NT. The ceremonial law was superceded, but that has nothing to do with the wisdom writings of Soloman. The Psalmist writes "The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God.'" When did this become false? In fact, I can look at an atheist and with absolute accuracy call him a fool. Why? Because he says in his heart "There is no God." Have I violated the Scripture? No, I have quoted the Scripture and stand on its authority.

As the writings of Paul and whoever else you care to find calling an action foolish (which is not forbidded, BTW) or directly calling someone a fool, including the Lord Jesus Christ, are divinely inspired, Spirit-breathed in fact, they are the words of God Himself, and he is (obviously) perfected entitled to whomsoever whatsoever he wishes.

No, this doesn't wash. The Lord Jesus lived exactly the life we should have lived in exactly the way we should have lived it. He emptied himself, and became like us. If calling a man a fool of necessity reveals a sinful heart, then the Lord Jesus would not have done it. He did not have the ability to say "That may be a sin for you but it is not a sin for me." Else it could not be said of Him "He was tempted in all ways just as we are, yet without sin." He kept the law perfectly that we might receive His perfect righteousness. In fact, because He judged rightly then so can we judge rightly. It is true that we must beware of the sin that can creep into such judgments. I must therefore respect the admonition. But you need some evidence besides "You called him a fool." The man who says "I am superior to you because God made me superior to you" is indeed a fool.

With regard to some of the (seemingly) harsh speech against entire nations that we see in the OT in particular, my point was that the language used in condemning an entire race, every last single one, even the cattle and the sheep, would today fall within the bounds of the ludicrously titled 'hate-speech' laws.

You are correct. We should not retreat. God is not subject to the laws of men, and when God judges, He judges rightly. We must never allow God to be judged as if he were a man.

Should we (perhaps you are unwilling to include me, but no matter) as Christians keep quiet about certain things, mince our words, deny the obvious truth before our eyes

No we should not. But God has not commanded us to uproot, deport, or kill entire populations of innocents just to pay for the sins of those who would uproot them. You say harsh and cruel things, EV, that have no basis in Scripture. I have no reason to deny you are my Brother. I have every reason to be concerned about the things you write about other people. Don't worry about what others say. Worry about what you say.

carl

8 August 2011 at 23:49  
Blogger The Worker said...

English Viking

It is part of the moral duty of any State to maintain civil order and protect its citizens. Restoring order and punishing those responsible for wanton rioting must take place.

Then a judgement is needed about the drivers of civil disorder. This requires a judicious approach and balanced approaches. Simplistic and hostile accusations against minority groups is unhelpul and unChristian.

A lack of social justice breeds sinfulness. It remains as sin but the solution is not to hurl abuse across an already divided society.

8 August 2011 at 23:50  
Blogger English Viking said...

Carl,

At least follow your own advice, and take care of your own pronouncements before worrying about mine.

With regard to 'harsh and cruel', was it not both of these things to import millions, without the permission of the electorate? Millions who (if you turn on your telly, you'll see what I mean) do not accept the rule of British law, will not be educated, employed or, most probably, in any way become useful to this society, whilst stripping me of my wealth to pay for it?

If importation is OK, why deportation is not?

I have witnessed the near total moral, financial, societal, legal and spiritual destruction of one of the finest nations the world has ever seen, made possible in part by people who will not speak against these things, who want to hold hands, skip and put flowers in their hair, and you expect not to grieve, to mourn, to anger, to speak?

You need to think again.

You fear to grasp the nettle, in case people don't think you're 'nice' anymore. A bit sad really.

BTW was God 'harsh and cruel' for removing the sceptre from Saul when he spared the King of Amalek, after slaughtering almost the entire nation? Be careful some of your mud-slinging against me does not also land in His direction.

What is this bleating, I hear in mine ears?

9 August 2011 at 00:05  
Anonymous toronto said...

we have prayed and we hope that the london situation will settle into calmness.

to anyone who has used the opportunity to further publish or announce their hatred for other races, well it appears to me that such people bear a lot of resemblance to looters in these riots.

9 August 2011 at 00:47  
Blogger English Viking said...

I too pray that the Lord will deliver us from the evil we are witnessing in London, and now Birmingham.

To anyone who has used the 'opportunity' to further publish their lefty, weak, fabian nonsense and a dislike of the indigenous majority, well it appears to me that such people bear a lot of resemblance to the looters in these riots.

9 August 2011 at 01:02  
Blogger English Viking said...

The Worker,

It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, loving, to allow a person to commit wanton acts of criminal destruction.

Paul spoke of executing such folk.

Roman 13 vv 1-5

Could you imagine Cæsar issuing a few £50 fines for such an uprising in Rome?

Me neither.

9 August 2011 at 01:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well this article that i’ve been waited for so long.

9 August 2011 at 04:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enoch Powell. Britain’s last great statesman and a prophet.

9 August 2011 at 10:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I seem to see the Tiber foaming with much blood ...

9 August 2011 at 22:57  

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